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(Daily Kos)   Barack Obama regarding last night's debate: 'When I got on the stage, I met this very spirited fellow who claimed to be Mitt Romney'   (dailykos.com ) divider line
    More: Amusing, Mitt Romney, Health Care, International, rollbacks  
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5243 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Oct 2012 at 3:23 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-04 04:50:30 PM  

I alone am best: Many states have an insurer of last resort that cant turn down pre-existing conditions. Michigan has had one for the last 30 years.


Yeah many (all) states have that now. IT'S PART OF OBAMACARE!

So I guess it's only evil when Obama does it again?
 
2012-10-04 04:51:20 PM  

DirkValentine: Serious question :

Is there anyone here that can genuinely elaborate on how/what deductions are specifically being talked about being eliminated in conjunction with Mitt's 20% "across the board" cut?

I have to be honest - there has been so much bullshiat in the water these days i'm having a hard time keeping it all straight.


He's never said what deductions. You haven't missed the specifics - they dont exist.
 
2012-10-04 04:51:36 PM  

I alone am best: Many states have an insurer of last resort that cant turn down pre-existing conditions. Michigan has had one for the last 30 years.


So you support that? Even though that is something Obamacare also has states provide?

I guess your only against things when Obama does it? But when others do it you think it's a good thing?
 
2012-10-04 04:51:46 PM  

Corvus: I alone am best: Many states have an insurer of last resort that cant turn down pre-existing conditions. Michigan has had one for the last 30 years.

Yeah many (all) states have that now. IT'S PART OF OBAMACARE!

So I guess it's only evil when Obama does it again?


Of course, hes not on their team.
 
2012-10-04 04:52:51 PM  

I alone am best: unexplained bacon: I've been looking for a RW farker to give me the RW take on Mitt's line about not ending the preexisting condition rule when he dismantles Obamacare.

is the RW take that he meant he expects the states to set these rules up themselves? or what?
seriously, any RWer got an answer there?

Many states have an insurer of last resort that cant turn down pre-existing conditions. Michigan has had one for the last 30 years.


so Mitt does intend to end the preexisting condition rule?

But it's ok if he says he doesn't in the debate because some states have their own safety net?

there are very few states that now have a way to insure people with preexisting conditions. For any American living in a state without such a safety net, they will indeed be dropped after Romney eliminates the rule (the rule he claimed he wasn't going to eliminate last night on live TV).

Am I missing something? or was Mitt straight up lying on a big topic like healthcare?
really wondering what I'm missing any Mitt fan reading this, please feel free to explain what I'm missing.
 
2012-10-04 04:53:31 PM  

DamnYankees: flux: I like this narrative... but I hope it's not self-delusion on the part of those of us who support him.

I think it is. He's not a supergenius. There's no benefit in him not crushing Romney last night, putting him out of his misery.


The belief you CAN crush someone and put them out of their misery in a modern debate is why so many Obama supporters were shiatting their pants last night and this morning. It's so farking stupid I can't believe how many people bought into it.

Maybe the polls proove me wrong. Ohio goes from +7 Obama to +3 Romney. The national polls all flip. Obama suddenly finds himself needing to advertise in New York. But I really farking doubt it.

Do I wish the man had been more aggressive? Yep! Was he going to put the election away last night, in the first of three debates? Farking nope.

So congrats to Romney. He finally wins a battle, and lives to fight another day. Meanwhile there's two weeks of ripping apart all the shiat he said last night, and plenty of material Obama has to use going into the final debates. If Obama keeps up the behavior he's showing today for the next several weeks people won't even be talking about the Romney at the debate by the time the next one comes around.
 
2012-10-04 04:54:03 PM  

I alone am best: Many states have an insurer of last resort that cant turn down pre-existing conditions. Michigan has had one for the last 30 years.


You mean like these:

A year ago, the Department of Health and Human Services announced that it would lower premiums for temporary high-risk pools in 18 states and ease eligibility standards in 23 states and the District or Columbia to make expand enrollment in the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan (PCIP) that was created by the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

I see it's only evil when Obama does it but when other states have done it, its a good thing?
 
2012-10-04 04:54:05 PM  

DirkValentine: Is there anyone here that can genuinely elaborate on how/what deductions are specifically being talked about being eliminated in conjunction with Mitt's 20% "across the board" cut?


Serious answer: It's a secret plan. They'll tell us how this all works after they get elected.

/that really is the answer
 
2012-10-04 04:55:41 PM  

Mrtraveler01: cchris_39: Lawnchair: Wait a second. You just said two posts back that he was going to "keep the revenue and who pays the same".

Then you said that someone (the who doesn't even matter to the logical principle) is "getting tax relief".

Those two statements cannot coincide. They say two opposite things.

Correct - this is a plan targeting small business. They will pay less. Everybody else stays the same.

So revenue will decrease? But Romney told me that this plan was revenue neutral?


The theory - and we can debate this - is to get these small businesses hiring, and get more people back on the tax rolls and off government assistance. Their taxes keep the revenue neutral.

That's a more squishy projection than just calculating break even between tax rates and deductions, but that's the concept.
 
2012-10-04 04:55:46 PM  

DirkValentine: Serious question :

Is there anyone here that can genuinely elaborate on how/what deductions are specifically being talked about being eliminated in conjunction with Mitt's 20% "across the board" cut?


No. Romney has not specifically identified what deductions will be eliminated, so no one can elaborate on it. 

Romney has no plan. He's all attack with no substance.
 
2012-10-04 04:56:05 PM  
so yeah yeah, Obama should have been tougher, but I have read a few comments on articles and seen Romney supporters post things like "n****r", "he was about to bite Romney's ear off" , "uneducated thug" and similar toned posts...

so if Obama did get on the attack they would have eaten him up for being too aggressive typical black man or some sh*t...

they claim not to be racist, and of course not all of them are, but Obama is in a tough position to be all uppity arguing with a rich white guy.

But seriously, he better to better next time. And you know he didn't expect that Romney to show up and he should have called him out on some stuff. But again, the criticism will be brutal....and probably racist.
 
2012-10-04 04:57:01 PM  

Corvus: I alone am best: Many states have an insurer of last resort that cant turn down pre-existing conditions. Michigan has had one for the last 30 years.

So you support that? Even though that is something Obamacare also has states provide?

I guess your only against things when Obama does it? But when others do it you think it's a good thing?


To be fair, some right-wingers hate Obamacare because federalism. So they'd be fine with every State implementing Obamacare, as long as the Feds aren't involved.

It's at least a consistent, reality-based position (even though I disagree). (as opposed to "OMG government takeover! Death panels!")
 
2012-10-04 04:57:06 PM  

unexplained bacon: so Mitt does intend to end the preexisting condition rule?


Link
 
2012-10-04 04:57:30 PM  

unexplained bacon: so Mitt does intend to end the preexisting condition rule?


The only thing Mitt clearly intends to do is get elected. He has no other positions other than that, as fart as I can tell.
 
2012-10-04 04:57:54 PM  

cchris_39: is to get these small businesses hiring, and get more people back on the tax rolls and off government assistance.


Lowering their taxes won't get them hiring.
 
2012-10-04 04:58:48 PM  

DamnYankees: unexplained bacon: so Mitt does intend to end the preexisting condition rule?

The only thing Mitt clearly intends to do is get elected. He has no other positions other than that, as fart as I can tell.


Excuse you!
 
2012-10-04 04:58:57 PM  

NateGrey: Markoff_Cheney: polls wont really be effected until next week.
also, nate silver.


Thanks Captain Obvious.

My point is it was one night, the chart is a reflection of the whole race up until last night.


welcometofark.jpg for me on that sick burn.
 
2012-10-04 05:00:13 PM  

GhostFish: Karma Curmudgeon: DirkValentine: Is there anyone here that can genuinely elaborate on how/what deductions are specifically being talked about being eliminated in conjunction with Mitt's 20% "across the board" cut?

Serious answer: It's a secret plan. They'll tell us how this all works after they get elected.

/that really is the answer

Kind of like how McCain knew how to get Osama bin Laden?


Exactly. Also like Nixon's secret plan for Vietnam.
 
2012-10-04 05:00:20 PM  

nevirus: No. Romney has not specifically identified what deductions will be eliminated, so no one can elaborate on it.

Romney has no plan. He's all attack with no substance.



Just like a machi... oh my god!
 
2012-10-04 05:00:41 PM  

DamnYankees: He has no other positions other than that, as fart as I can tell.


I wouldn't trust him as fart as I could throw him.
 
2012-10-04 05:00:45 PM  

WhyteRaven74: cchris_39: is to get these small businesses hiring, and get more people back on the tax rolls and off government assistance.

Lowering their taxes won't get them hiring.


This. Since businesses are taxed on profits (not gross revenue) there's no marginal tax rate less than 100% that can cause a change in profit-maximizing levels of activity.
 
2012-10-04 05:01:22 PM  
I feel bad for droppin the n-bomb in my previous post...but it was all typed out on FB and I just couldn't believe it. Posted by a young white southerner. Yeah, I clicked his profile.
 
2012-10-04 05:01:52 PM  

too-old: unexplained bacon: so Mitt does intend to end the preexisting condition rule?

Link


thanks...yep, Mitt lied on a major point...well, on several.

I'm just wondering what the gloating Mitt fans think about this.

Obama went after Mitt because his policy proposals would cause thousands of Americans to lose their insurance due to preexisting conditions. Mitt answered this important critique by denying his own policy...he didn't change his policy, he just lied about his policy.

I really would like to here the RW Mitt fans address this.
 
2012-10-04 05:02:01 PM  

DamnYankees: DirkValentine: Serious question :

Is there anyone here that can genuinely elaborate on how/what deductions are specifically being talked about being eliminated in conjunction with Mitt's 20% "across the board" cut?

I have to be honest - there has been so much bullshiat in the water these days i'm having a hard time keeping it all straight.

He's never said what deductions. You haven't missed the specifics - they dont exist.


Well that's kind of been my take, too, but the last week or so I feel like maybe I missed something? I just finished reading that like of Dubay's analysis of Romney's plan and criticisms of it and quite honestly - it's the same shiat - NO SPECIFICS! How the fark do people fall for this when it has been showed so clearly not to work?

Mainly? B/c the Dems don't march out the goddamn facts blitzkrieg style like the Republicans. And, you know, the attention span of the average american.
 
2012-10-04 05:04:21 PM  

DirkValentine: Mainly? B/c the Dems don't march out the goddamn facts blitzkrieg style like the Republicans. And, you know, the attention span of the average american.


That's because of the liberal media.

Here's a couple of reads that were interesting, if not a little speculative:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/10/02/tax-plan - specifics-from-mitt-romney/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/10/03/mitt-rom n ey-wants-to-cap-tax-deductions-here-are-five-ways-to-do-it/
 
2012-10-04 05:05:15 PM  

unexplained bacon: I really would like to here the RW Mitt fans address this.


Do anything to get elected and then Etch A Sketch away your platform
 
2012-10-04 05:05:41 PM  
So in reading all these threads about President Obama and the debate and how he does this or that and how he lies and he's unprepared and all, I've come to one logical conclusion:

The Republicans have conjured up a President Obama only tenpoundsofcheese can see.
 
2012-10-04 05:05:59 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-04 05:08:02 PM  

busy chillin': I feel bad for droppin the n-bomb in my previous post...but it was all typed out on FB and I just couldn't believe it. Posted by a young white southerner. Yeah, I clicked his profile.


I love seeing you in threads. Your farkie always makes me laugh. "Boxes of Sh*t 2012"
 
2012-10-04 05:12:27 PM  
Obama needs to get his head up and stop sayings "uh" and "and" every other word. I'm voting for him but damn, I was embarrassed for him. What a pathetic job he did. Romney steamrolled over him and lied his way through the debate. Obama stood there like an intimidated kid trying to form a smart comeback. COME ON! The only clear point Obama made was about preexisting conditions.
 
2012-10-04 05:12:58 PM  

Stile4aly: If you cut marginal rates 20% on someone making $1M, you're going to cut their taxes by 65K (assuming 100% of their income is earned income. If you limit deductions by an equivalent amount you're going to impact a lot of middle income people ultimately increasing their taxes. Romney also wants to cut capital gains and inheritence taxes to 0 which will give an immense tax cut to the wealthy with no way to recoup the revenue


Yeah that needs to be clarified for sure. (Technical correction - my understanding is that he only wants the investment income cuts for under $250k).

Without doing the math, it seems pretty obvious that they cannot get the full 20% and still pay the same.
 
2012-10-04 05:14:43 PM  

randomjsa: We're terribly sorry to tell you Obama that Romney is not the person you and your supports have conjured up in your minds...


You really need to change your handle to "Bell & Howell."
 
2012-10-04 05:15:54 PM  
 
2012-10-04 05:21:17 PM  

flux: I like this narrative... but I hope it's not self-delusion on the part of those of us who support him.
What makes me think this is a long game strategy is how weak and flat the President's closing statements were. That's not an off-the-cuff response; that's a pre-written, memorized statement. He effectively said "hey, I'm not perfect, but I'm trying. If you give me another four years, I'll... keep trying." It could not possibly be the best his campaign could come up with.


Self delusion? I don't think so. I am abashed I was so gullible. Why?

I give presentations constantly, singing for my supper, so to speak. We plan a whole approach and vet each presentation that is part of the campaign over and over before I give them. Everyone who does this as part of their livelihood does the same thing. It takes weeks. Even an intern could have come up with a better closing statement than President Obama gave.

I'm now convinced that Obama's performance in the debate was planned and the Denver follow up to it was planned as well. It will be interesting to see what he has planned next.
 
2012-10-04 05:22:39 PM  

Jekylman: I watched the debate and I think I was watching something completely different from everyone else... on the planet as it seems. I thought Romney came off as a desperate blowhard and Obama came off as the calm thoughtful statesman he's always been. I was born here, I've lived here all my life, but I don't understand America, apparently.


My impression was the same as yours - I thought Romney looked wild-eyed and a little bit like he was tweaking. The thing you're failing to take into consideration, however, is that Americans like desperate blowhards.
 
2012-10-04 05:24:57 PM  

Vodka Zombie: mrshowrules: DamnYankees: I genuinely think Obama was flustered by how brazenly Romney denied ever holding positions he's been campaigning on.

You can take this as a confirmation.
Link

Hey! Umm... Thanks. But, I think you want this: Link


And a meme is born?
 
2012-10-04 05:27:43 PM  
There are 2 pearls of "conventional wisdom" that the public will take away from last night's debate:

1) Mitt Romney out-debated his opponent.
2) Mitt Romney wants to end Sesame Street.

Which one ultimately affects the election more is yet to be seen.
 
2012-10-04 05:29:50 PM  
Wow. People are having trouble accepting that Obama failed because that means they have to admit they failed by supporting him. When someone has four years to turn things around and instead accelerates the downward trajectory (fails) then it is time to pack it up and move um out. We need someone with experience who can turn things around economically in this country or you all will know what real regret is.
 
2012-10-04 05:32:17 PM  

modestlivinglegend: Wow. People are having trouble accepting that Obama failed because that means they have to admit they failed by supporting him. When someone has four years to turn things around and instead accelerates the downward trajectory (fails) then it is time to pack it up and move um out. We need someone with experience who can turn things around economically in this country or you all will know what real regret is.


WTF am I reading?
 
2012-10-04 05:35:58 PM  

modestlivinglegend: Obama failed


Well it looks like you've got your mind all made up. But do you have any ideas that would help the economy? Or are you just hoping that changing suits in the White House will be enough? 

What are the differences between Obama's economical plans and Romney's? Other than the fact that Romney won't consider tax revenues to help pay down the debt.
 
2012-10-04 05:36:44 PM  

Stile4aly: modestlivinglegend: Wow. People are having trouble accepting that Obama failed because that means they have to admit they failed by supporting him. When someone has four years to turn things around and instead accelerates the downward trajectory (fails) then it is time to pack it up and move um out. We need someone with experience who can turn things around economically in this country or you all will know what real regret is.

WTF am I reading?


Regret is well defined in this song.
 
2012-10-04 05:37:50 PM  
Well even though the republicans act like they won the game there is a lot of time left on the clock
This is what I think the Dem strategy is
1) Let Romney hang himself with his own words and dont act like a bully in the first debate. Take the loss
2) Let Biden get nasty in the second debate turn it into a eye pokin groin kicking fight in the mud. Biden may be a gaffe machine but always seems to be %100 when they really need him to be
3) Obama cleans up in last 2
Interesting to see how this plays out. Dont forget that Bush got hammered in the first debate in 2004 then came back
 
2012-10-04 05:38:20 PM  

Stile4aly: WTF am I reading?


I'm pretty sure it's a copy/paste from some other website.
 
2012-10-04 05:40:02 PM  

modestlivinglegend: Wow. People are having trouble accepting that Obama failed because that means they have to admit they failed by supporting him. When someone has four years to turn things around and instead accelerates the downward trajectory (fails) then it is time to pack it up and move um out. We need someone with experience who can turn things around economically in this country or you all will know what real regret is.


What color is the sky in your world? In my world Bush's recession ended in June 2009, just a few months after President Obama was inaugurated. Are you now giving Obama credit for ending Bush's recession? I don't give Obama credit for that. That came from the bailouts. From June 2009 until now there has been job growth, decreasing unemployment, increasing stock market values and finally increased home prices. Also the sky is blue here.
 
2012-10-04 05:41:12 PM  

Via Infinito: busy chillin': I feel bad for droppin the n-bomb in my previous post...but it was all typed out on FB and I just couldn't believe it. Posted by a young white southerner. Yeah, I clicked his profile.

I love seeing you in threads. Your farkie always makes me laugh. "Boxes of Sh*t 2012"


nice!
 
2012-10-04 05:41:56 PM  

cchris_39: Mrtraveler01: cchris_39: Lawnchair: Wait a second. You just said two posts back that he was going to "keep the revenue and who pays the same".

Then you said that someone (the who doesn't even matter to the logical principle) is "getting tax relief".

Those two statements cannot coincide. They say two opposite things.

Correct - this is a plan targeting small business. They will pay less. Everybody else stays the same.

So revenue will decrease? But Romney told me that this plan was revenue neutral?

The theory - and we can debate this - is to get these small businesses hiring, and get more people back on the tax rolls and off government assistance. Their taxes keep the revenue neutral.

That's a more squishy projection than just calculating break even between tax rates and deductions, but that's the concept.


At least you admit it's BS.

How fast would the economy have to grow in order to gain enough tax revenue to make this tax plan revenue neutral anyway?
 
2012-10-04 05:46:03 PM  

Mrtraveler01: How fast would the economy have to grow in order to gain enough tax revenue to make this tax plan revenue neutral anyway?


Never. Romney would just vastly increase defense spending, just like Bush. I would assume a President Romney will invade both Iran and Pakistan.
 
2012-10-04 05:51:23 PM  

Delay: Mrtraveler01: How fast would the economy have to grow in order to gain enough tax revenue to make this tax plan revenue neutral anyway?

Never. Romney would just vastly increase defense spending, just like Bush. I would assume a President Romney will invade both Iran and Pakistan.


Nothin' like deficit spending on wars to help the economy. It's Republican-brand stimulus.

Add in more tax cuts for everyone and we'll get another Republican VP saying "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" while the teabaggers biatch about the 'liberal media.'
 
2012-10-04 06:00:17 PM  

nevirus: Nothin' like deficit spending on wars to help the economy. It's Republican-brand stimulus.


You know, that's the worst part. We all know that pointless wars are the typical Republican stimulus for the economy while the typical Democrat stimulus for the economy is unnecessary teachers and fire engines. I'm going to have to go with fire engines here.
 
2012-10-04 06:07:12 PM  

mrshowrules: Where the bloody fark was that guy yesterday.


He had this guy:

www.hbshows.com

for a moderator.

Around 15 minutes into it, you can actually pause the video and see the precise moment when Obama fully realizes he is surrounded by idiots.
 
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