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(MLB Trade Rumors)   The Red Sox no longer heart Valentine   (mlbtraderumors.com) divider line 77
    More: Obvious, Red Sox, Larry Lucchino, FeedBurner, Sox  
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885 clicks; posted to Sports » on 04 Oct 2012 at 3:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-04 01:53:51 PM
SHOCKING!!
 
2012-10-04 01:55:51 PM
I figured they'd toss him mid-year, I think I actually predicted this way back at the beginning of the year. I said either he'd be tossed mid-year or at least wouldn't be back. One of the easiest predictions I've ever made. They couldn't very well admit how badly they farked up by trashing the team after the collapse.
 
2012-10-04 02:06:13 PM
Like I said months ago, as far as the 2012 Red Sox is concerned, that team never existed. I really don't know what the Six did that season. I think the Commisioner gave the team the year off.
 
2012-10-04 02:14:08 PM
I'm just glad to see that pressuring Francona to quit last year worked out so well...
 
2012-10-04 02:20:44 PM
Hopefully they sign Dice K to a 10 year contract soon.
 
2012-10-04 02:27:49 PM
Now they'll have another manager, and they'll probably fire him too after next season.
 
2012-10-04 02:56:14 PM
Is there really no hate for the GM in beantown, or is he just next? A shallow bench crippled that team when the injury bug came calling, and a bonehead trade killed the team dead.
 
2012-10-04 03:02:50 PM

ThatGuyGreg: Is there really no hate for the GM in beantown, or is he just next? A shallow bench crippled that team when the injury bug came calling, and a bonehead trade killed the team dead.


There's not a lot of love for management right now. That being said....


i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-10-04 03:06:09 PM

ThatGuyGreg: Is there really no hate for the GM in beantown, or is he just next? A shallow bench crippled that team when the injury bug came calling, and a bonehead trade killed the team dead.


Cherington's only been the GM for a year so he'll probably have a longer leash than Valentine. Though it seems to me that ownership is an issue too, maybe more than the GM.

As for the trade...there is something to be said for a) having an extra $250 million lying around and b) getting rid of a couple of guys that had become pariahs in your city. Especially when you have a losing team anyway.
 
2012-10-04 03:29:37 PM
Let's see if this goes well, extra points if they humiliate the Yankees next time.
 
2012-10-04 03:31:15 PM
Apparently, they had 100% made up their mind to fire Valentine in late August. STILL do not understand why they didn't just fire him then.

ThatGuyGreg: Is there really no hate for the GM in beantown, or is he just next?


I've hated him since the first time he was GM.
 
2012-10-04 03:33:17 PM
any chance of BILL LEE managing the club in 2013?
/earth!
 
2012-10-04 03:35:32 PM
When the Red Sox hired Bobby Valentine, I said in the ensuing Fark thread that this would not end well.

Not sure how I feel about being so right so quickly.
 
2012-10-04 03:36:53 PM
i6.photobucket.com

/yeeeeaaaaah
 
2012-10-04 03:36:59 PM

ThatGuyGreg: Is there really no hate for the GM in beantown, or is he just next? A shallow bench crippled that team when the injury bug came calling, and a bonehead trade killed the team dead.


I'd fire the GM before firing the skipper. He's the guy responsible for making sure there's some talent on the team. This isn't like football where the head coach has to develop a game plan every week. If I were to rate the major sports in order of the importance of the head coach it would go something like this:

Football
Hockey
Basketball
Soccer
????
Baseball
 
2012-10-04 03:39:20 PM
I suspect that paying Valentine $2.5M to stay the fark away from the club next year will be worth every penny.
 
2012-10-04 03:41:24 PM
LOL @ the circus that was the Boston Red Sox!

Blessing in disguise Bobby. That is currently the worst coaching job in the MLB and looks like it will be for a few more years,
 
2012-10-04 03:43:12 PM

NewWorldDan: ThatGuyGreg: Is there really no hate for the GM in beantown, or is he just next? A shallow bench crippled that team when the injury bug came calling, and a bonehead trade killed the team dead.

I'd fire the GM before firing the skipper. He's the guy responsible for making sure there's some talent on the team. This isn't like football where the head coach has to develop a game plan every week. If I were to rate the major sports in order of the importance of the head coach it would go something like this:

Football
Hockey
Basketball
Soccer
????
Baseball


Usually the GM can hire the manager he wants. Cherrington got no such chance. If the upper management again decides to select the next manager, Cherrington should just resign.
 
2012-10-04 03:46:31 PM
The Onion Article is even funnier now.

"Bobby Valentine: 'The Red Sox Suck shiat This Year And I Hate All My Players'"
 
2012-10-04 03:46:53 PM

beantowndog: Hopefully they sign Dice K to a 10 year contract soon.


Maybe Dice-K and Valentine can work together on some kind of wrap-gyro hybrid. It could reinvent lunch as we know it.
 
2012-10-04 03:47:20 PM

ThatGuyGreg: Is there really no hate for the GM in beantown, or is he just next? A shallow bench crippled that team when the injury bug came calling, and a bonehead trade killed the team dead.


Adrian Gonzalez was the price for unloading becket and crawford.

And it wasn't a bad move. Crawford couldn't stay healthy and didn't handle the pressure of boston. Beckett hasn't been an ace for two full years. And Gonzalez's numbers were down. Additionally he's from Southern California (so he's likely happier there) and rumors were that he didn't really like the market (He liked the relative anonymity of playing in LA).

He definitely could have helped the Res sox if he stayed...but it wasn't like he was having a Miguel Cabrera year and it looks like the sox just want to start from scratch in 2012. And like I said...it was the cost to unload beckett and crawford.
 
2012-10-04 03:48:10 PM

NewWorldDan: ThatGuyGreg: Is there really no hate for the GM in beantown, or is he just next? A shallow bench crippled that team when the injury bug came calling, and a bonehead trade killed the team dead.

I'd fire the GM before firing the skipper. He's the guy responsible for making sure there's some talent on the team. This isn't like football where the head coach has to develop a game plan every week. If I were to rate the major sports in order of the importance of the head coach it would go something like this:

Football
Hockey
Basketball
Baseball
Soccer
????
Baseball


FTFY. Baseball is certainly not the MOST important, and in fact I can relaly only argue that it should be above soccer. But just look at Davey Johnson's career for a quick example of how big an impact a good manager can have. There is a good bit of strategy to handling pitching changes/pinch hitters and runners/injury replacements/setting batting orders and a good manager will give his team an edge in a game where a marginal advantage is everything. Not to mention the importance of keeping morale up through a grueling 162 game season.

Soccer...I mean, the coach can't even really have ANY impact once the action starts. You get a chance to adjust at halftime, and then MAYBE put in a specialist or some fresh legs for the last 15 minutes. And of course he sets the starters, but that is true across the board no matter the sport.
 
2012-10-04 03:52:01 PM
Alright Bobby, thats a wrap!
 
2012-10-04 03:52:55 PM

Luthiel: [i6.photobucket.com image 292x798]

/yeeeeaaaaah



Aaaaaaaaand we're done here.
 
2012-10-04 03:57:32 PM

Paka Ono: Blessing in disguise Bobby. That is currently the worst coaching job in the MLB and looks like it will be for a few more years,


I did think the Marlins were overrated going into the season to begin with, but Ozzie Guillen REALLY pushed him in that category this year.

Perhaps a special nod as to Manny Acta, as the Indians by and large during the second half of season could not have played less-inspiring baseball. Like, literally; you can not just phone in games any worse than they did. I seriously doubt it's humanly possible.
 
2012-10-04 03:59:22 PM
This is irrelevant, but it's a baseball thread, so.

In 215 plate appearances this year, Jason Bay hit two doubles. Two!

I might be able to hit two doubles in 215 plate appearances against major league pitching. Well, I'm hilariously slow. But still.

Jesus.
 
2012-10-04 04:02:10 PM
This is my shocked face.
 
2012-10-04 04:03:59 PM
Was Bobby the difference between 69 wins and 95? Absolutely not.

But the ideal manager in Boston does the following: interact well with the media, maintain strong relationship with players, work closely with the front office, avoid controversy, and make solid in-game tactical decisions.

Bobby did none of those well, and some of them absolutely horribly. He was cryptic if not downright disrespectful to the media, snapping at those who asked simple questions such as "Is Doubront starting Saturday?" nevermind the whole punching Ordway incident. He repeatedly alienated his players, including but not limited to those that were most instrumental to the team's success. He was never completely on board with the front office, with things really coming to a head at the end of spring training when they disagreed on a number of key points. Mind you, all of this is public knowledge because Valentine consistently leaked these things to the media.

Not only did he fail to manage the controversies that arose throughout the year, but he literally manufactured some of them. Maybe some of this would be marginally acceptable if his in-game management was strong... but that too was bad. The bullpen management was terrible. The lineups were bad. The use of the bench was bad. These are just about the only areas they can affect the games and he did them poorly.

Again, remember, he isn't the reason they lost 93 games. But he certainly didn't help and he couldn't be a factor in 2013. I'd love to see Tito brought back but that's a pipe dream. John Farrell doesn't excite me because his in-game tactics are as bad as Valentine's if not worse, but at least he would carry a little respect in the clubhouse and keep things around the team in order. Varitek, Bill Mueller and Mike Lowell have all been mentioned lately too. I think they could all be effective, much like Matheny/Ventura, but I do worry that their lack of experience could be a problem is such a complex situation.

If I had to pick one person right now I'd go with Joey Cora. Experienced coach, well regarded, has interviewed and been a finalist for a few different managerial gigs, knows how to handle controversy(being w/ Ozzie for years) -- perhaps if the FO really does have some lust for a previous, well-respected player, he could bring along his brother Alex in some coaching capacity.
 
2012-10-04 04:05:07 PM
Boston doesn't choo-choo-choose you.

/got nuthin'
 
2012-10-04 04:08:33 PM
Get your popcorn ready
I can't wait for the Bobby V tell-all.
And once Henry ships Lucchino that will be another great interview.
And this fall and winter will be loaded with lots of "an anonymous source has confirmed..."
I'm trying to figure out where the line is on what would surprise me, but if someone used the words "urine" and "coffee" in the same sentence, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

It'll be like Melrose Place 90210 for baseball fans.
 
2012-10-04 04:09:51 PM

Dafatone: In 215 plate appearances this year, Jason Bay hit two doubles. Two!


Actual conversation with a Mets fan in the office the other day:

Him: The Mets can hopefully sign a halfway-decent piece for the outfield, and then if they can't trade Bay, he can become a glorified pinch hitter.
Me: Isn't he owed, like, $15M or something next year? That's a pretty expensive bench guy
Him: *shrugs* Unless he somehow hits .500 with 10 HRs in April, I don't think he should be on the field
 
2012-10-04 04:10:21 PM
Up next for the Red Sox, Ozzie Guillen, after being fired by the Marlins, is hired to replace Bobby Valentine. Then they sign Josh Hamilton to a 10 year $250 million contract in the offseason. Upon coming to Boston, Hamilton realizes there is no God and hits .215/.290/.301 while constantly injecting heroin into his eyeballs.
 
2012-10-04 04:11:12 PM

Nana's Vibrator:

It'll be like Melrose Place 90210 for baseball fans.


Then 90125 for music fans!
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-10-04 04:11:46 PM

jdamaral: He repeatedly alienated his players, including but not limited to those that were most instrumental to the team's success.


I always assumed that ownership wanted someone to come in and rattle cages after the beer and chicken wings story. Then Valentine says something mean about Youk and ownership publicly neuters him. No, Pedrioa, that's probably not how you guys did things around there, but wasn't Bobby V brought in to change the way you do things? Why hire someone like that and then cut his balls off immediately?
 
2012-10-04 04:12:20 PM

jdamaral: If I had to pick one person right now I'd go with Joey Cora. Experienced coach, well regarded, has interviewed and been a finalist for a few different managerial gigs, knows how to handle controversy(being w/ Ozzie for years) -- perhaps if the FO really does have some lust for a previous, well-respected player, he could bring along his brother Alex in some coaching capacity.


This. I've always liked Joey Cora, I think it could work.

BTW, the list on WHDH of potentials:
Demarlo Hale (Heeeeelll no, too close to the players & the Francona regime for the front office to consider)
Mike Maddux (Had no idea he was their pitching coach, it's an interesting theory)
Sandy Jr. (Meh.)
Torey Louvello (Who??)
...alright I already forget who the next one was. Someone's 1st base coach, I think.

\and did anyone else see Susan Tran (of said Channel 7), in high heels & a skirt no less, trying to get an interview with him, chasing him down the middle of Huntington Ave?
 
2012-10-04 04:14:43 PM

expobill: Nana's Vibrator:

It'll be like Melrose Place 90210 for baseball fans.

Then 90125 for music fans!
[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x300]


well...Bobby V is now the owner of a lonely heart...

/weirdly off topic, but do you remember how many different versions of the "Leave It" video there were? I don't but I feel like 16 is the right number.
 
2012-10-04 04:18:02 PM

Joe_diGriz: Dafatone: In 215 plate appearances this year, Jason Bay hit two doubles. Two!

Actual conversation with a Mets fan in the office the other day:

Him: The Mets can hopefully sign a halfway-decent piece for the outfield, and then if they can't trade Bay, he can become a glorified pinch hitter.
Me: Isn't he owed, like, $15M or something next year? That's a pretty expensive bench guy
Him: *shrugs* Unless he somehow hits .500 with 10 HRs in April, I don't think he should be on the field


Yep. Shame of it is that we're stuck with him, and we're not signing a halfway-decent piece until he (and Johan Santana, although at least Santana's amazing when healthy-ish) get off the books. Oh well.
 
2012-10-04 04:19:06 PM

ignatius_crumbcake: Why hire someone like that and then cut his balls off immediately?


Because Lucchino. I don't know how much of it is John Henry having his hand up Lucchino's ass treating him like a puppet, but damned if that guy is not one of the biggest retards on the planet. Can not, nor have I ever been able to stand him.
 
2012-10-04 04:20:17 PM

FriarReb98: jdamaral: If I had to pick one person right now I'd go with Joey Cora. Experienced coach, well regarded, has interviewed and been a finalist for a few different managerial gigs, knows how to handle controversy(being w/ Ozzie for years) -- perhaps if the FO really does have some lust for a previous, well-respected player, he could bring along his brother Alex in some coaching capacity.

This. I've always liked Joey Cora, I think it could work.

BTW, the list on WHDH of potentials:
Demarlo Hale (Heeeeelll no, too close to the players & the Francona regime for the front office to consider)
Mike Maddux (Had no idea he was their pitching coach, it's an interesting theory)
Sandy Jr. (Meh.)
Torey Louvello (Who??)
...alright I already forget who the next one was. Someone's 1st base coach, I think.

\and did anyone else see Susan Tran (of said Channel 7), in high heels & a skirt no less, trying to get an interview with him, chasing him down the middle of Huntington Ave?


I think Maddux was a candidate last year and told Boston to go f- themselves and removed himself from the pool.
Unless the pull Farrell from the BJays, your 2013 manager is Brad Mills, and we're all praying that Cherrington turns the roster over 50%.
 
2012-10-04 04:20:31 PM
Valentine was under contract for next season at $2.5MM, which the team is still obligated to pay him.

hahahahahahahahahaha the Red Suckas!!
 
2012-10-04 04:22:34 PM
Red Sox pulling the old " Valentine Card " . . . .
 
2012-10-04 04:26:38 PM

ignatius_crumbcake: jdamaral: He repeatedly alienated his players, including but not limited to those that were most instrumental to the team's success.

I always assumed that ownership wanted someone to come in and rattle cages after the beer and chicken wings story. Then Valentine says something mean about Youk and ownership publicly neuters him. No, Pedrioa, that's probably not how you guys did things around there, but wasn't Bobby V brought in to change the way you do things? Why hire someone like that and then cut his balls off immediately?


While this is likely the case, when they hired Valentine, they EXPLICITLY told everyone that's not why he was hired. They said he was simply hired because they thought he was the best candidate for the job. They also cut their own balls off, so to speak, before even hiring Valentine, as they told all the players(Pedroia is the one usually cited) that they would NOT be hiring a Valentine type.

FriarReb98: jdamaral: If I had to pick one person right now I'd go with Joey Cora. Experienced coach, well regarded, has interviewed and been a finalist for a few different managerial gigs, knows how to handle controversy(being w/ Ozzie for years) -- perhaps if the FO really does have some lust for a previous, well-respected player, he could bring along his brother Alex in some coaching capacity.

This. I've always liked Joey Cora, I think it could work.

BTW, the list on WHDH of potentials:
Demarlo Hale (Heeeeelll no, too close to the players & the Francona regime for the front office to consider)
Mike Maddux (Had no idea he was their pitching coach, it's an interesting theory)
Sandy Jr. (Meh.)
Torey Louvello (Who??)
...alright I already forget who the next one was. Someone's 1st base coach, I think.

Don't know enough about Demarlo even though he was here for a while. Never really heard much about him. I'd stay away if I could though. Mike Maddux was an interesting candidate last time around but he withdrew from the running because Boston was too far from home for him. I understand the linkage between pitching problems = hire pitching guy to manage -- but I'm more interested in a pitching coach. If he wanted to come here to do that, that'd be cool. Sandy Jr. is a ton of meh. He was dismissed fairly early in the process last year with the reports basically saying that he wasn't a fit with this front office's philosophy. Now he's being pumped as a big candidate?

Lovullo is interesting. PawSox manager in 2010, Farrell's 1st base coach in Toronto. I just have a weird feeling about these career coaches with no managerial experience, with the exception of Cora. I'd almost be inclined to go with a Varitek or Lowell, a former player with no experience, than DeMarlo Hale or Lovullo. Maybe that's foolish but just a gut feeling.

 
2012-10-04 04:27:48 PM
Hope you like italics.
 
2012-10-04 04:29:53 PM
Valentine's better with young guys than veterans. So this made sense from the beginning.
 
2012-10-04 04:31:58 PM

ignatius_crumbcake: jdamaral: He repeatedly alienated his players, including but not limited to those that were most instrumental to the team's success.

I always assumed that ownership wanted someone to come in and rattle cages after the beer and chicken wings story. Then Valentine says something mean about Youk and ownership publicly neuters him. No, Pedrioa, that's probably not how you guys did things around there, but wasn't Bobby V brought in to change the way you do things? Why hire someone like that and then cut his balls off immediately?


The ownership wanted to make a PR splash, something that would knock the taste of September 2011 out of the mouths of RSN. We can all see how well that worked out.

At some point (I'll guess around, oh, the mid 2000's) the brand became more important than the game itself. Behold the glorious results.
 
2012-10-04 04:32:32 PM

Joe_diGriz: Dafatone: In 215 plate appearances this year, Jason Bay hit two doubles. Two!

Actual conversation with a Mets fan in the office the other day:

Him: The Mets can hopefully sign a halfway-decent piece for the outfield, and then if they can't trade Bay, he can become a glorified pinch hitter.
Me: Isn't he owed, like, $15M or something next year? That's a pretty expensive bench guy
Him: *shrugs* Unless he somehow hits .500 with 10 HRs in April, I don't think he should be on the field


I completely agree with that. He's a sunk cost at this point. We're not getting rid of him and he's not helping on the field if he plays with any regularity. What other option is there?

Dafatone: Shame of it is that we're stuck with him, and we're not signing a halfway-decent piece until he (and Johan Santana, although at least Santana's amazing when healthy-ish) get off the books. Oh well


Jonah Keri had to go and give me the slightest bit of hope, but I doubt that the Wilpons are opening the checkbook for anybody big at this point.
 
2012-10-04 04:33:50 PM

jdamaral: Hope you like italics.


I know I say it a lot IRL, but I'm not Italian. I'm Portuguese.
 
2012-10-04 04:34:36 PM

jdamaral: Lovullo is interesting. PawSox manager in 2010, Farrell's 1st base coach in Toronto. I just have a weird feeling about these career coaches with no managerial experience, with the exception of Cora. I'd almost be inclined to go with a Varitek or Lowell, a former player with no experience, than DeMarlo Hale or Lovullo. Maybe that's foolish but just a gut feeling.


They may as well just go with Varitek. If anyone is gonna get a rebuilding grace period from the fans and media, it's Tek.
 
2012-10-04 04:37:03 PM
I hear Terry Francona is a pretty good manager, maybe the Sox should take a look at him.
 
2012-10-04 04:38:57 PM
Should have stayed in Japan Bobby. YOu had a 1 in 100 chance of turning that bunch around. Might have gotten another chance, but the Yanks are in and Boston is out and the monster must be fed.
thegookofhazard.files.wordpress.com
You must Narfle the Garthok!
 
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