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(The American Interest)   Social Security runs in the red for a second straight year, but no biggy - our government's obligations are 100% backed by government obligations, which are backed by government obligations backed by government obligations   (blogs.the-american-interest.com) divider line 198
    More: Fail, social security, Capitol Hill  
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3339 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Oct 2012 at 10:51 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



198 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-10-04 10:52:16 AM  
Xzibit for Treasury Secretary!
 
2012-10-04 10:53:26 AM  
Don't worry. Once 0bummer is out of office, we'll cut taxes and balance the budget then there will be higher employment, higher wages, which mean Social Security will be saved.
 
2012-10-04 10:53:52 AM  
Vaporware 101

Paging Mr. Ponzi, Mr, Ponzi to the Courtesy Phone ....
 
2012-10-04 10:54:42 AM  

RumsfeldsReplacement: Don't worry. Once 0bummer is out of office, we'll cut taxes and balance the budget then there will be higher employment, higher wages, which mean Social Security will be saved.


He won't lower taxes! he's gonna lower rates! those are totes different words!
 
2012-10-04 10:55:12 AM  
We're all going to be picking up trash in a Walmart parking lot when we're 90 aren't we?
 
2012-10-04 10:55:21 AM  
That's funny as hell, subby.
 
2012-10-04 10:55:47 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-04 10:56:09 AM  
It's planned to operate in the red. It's why they raised taxes on the Boomers in the first place; they knew this was gonna happen decades in advance.
 
2012-10-04 10:56:43 AM  

TsarTom: We're all going to be picking up trash in a Walmart parking lot when we're 90 aren't we?


If it weren't for picking up trash at Walmart, I'd never get laid.
 
2012-10-04 10:56:45 AM  
But our policies of tax breaks, subsidies, and entitlements for large corporations are totally in the black, so we're good, right?
 
2012-10-04 10:56:58 AM  
It's turtles all the way down. Better get into wheelbarrow futures.
 
2012-10-04 10:57:53 AM  
We knew it was going to run in the red 60 years ago when the baby boom happened. Maybe if we actually put all the surpluss we had thus far in a lockbox and not raid that fund for wars, tax cuts and other programs that were not paid for we would not have a problem.

But what idiot would propose such a lockbox?
 
2012-10-04 10:58:36 AM  
Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?
 
2012-10-04 10:58:46 AM  
So everything for the old people now. The Soon to be old people will get everything as well when we still cant afford it. Then my generation will be left with nothing but but higher taxes and no services. Thanks you age pandering asshats
 
2012-10-04 10:59:05 AM  
I know you guys really don't like bush; but I like his idea for individual accounts; where you put your money and you have control over it after you are retired. If you have to pay into that account over a lifetime; you'd be set. And the government could still use that money for it's own purposes; as long as they paid 3% interest, and they guaranteed the account for the entire amount of money inside.

/ but something that simple and sane will never happen
 
2012-10-04 10:59:46 AM  

Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?


Yes, and money has a static vale that never changes. Are you an idiot?
 
2012-10-04 11:00:15 AM  

dragonchild: It's planned to operate in the red. It's why they raised taxes on the Boomers in the first place; they knew this was gonna happen decades in advance.


It's a good thing we have all those excess taxes tucked away and we can readily convert them back to cash in order to pay the benefits. Oh wait...
 
2012-10-04 11:00:23 AM  
Because the free market will solve it, amirite?

We should not have to address potential flaws in the Social Security system as long as the alternative is capable of being worse.
 
2012-10-04 11:01:46 AM  

zipdog: Xzibit for Treasury Secretary!


userserve-ak.last.fm
Yo Dawg, I put Government obligations on your Government obligations so you can have no Social Security while you have no Social Security
 
2012-10-04 11:02:56 AM  

iheartscotch: I know you guys really don't like bush; but I like his idea for individual accounts; where you put your money and you have control over it after you are retired. If you have to pay into that account over a lifetime; you'd be set. And the government could still use that money for it's own purposes; as long as they paid 3% interest, and they guaranteed the account for the entire amount of money inside.


That doesn't functionally fix the problem any more than just telling Congress to stop farking picking money out of the savings fund and leaving IOUs.

Also, that idea completely eliminates the entire concept of it being a guaranteed safety net. If I have to put my own money in and I get 3% back why wouldn't I just open another IRA and enjoy tax benefits and more flexibility?
 
2012-10-04 11:03:04 AM  

Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?


The whole modern monetary system just boggles my mind.
 
2012-10-04 11:03:06 AM  
"This currency is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States Government."

And nothing else.

At ALL.

Ah, ha ha. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?
 
2012-10-04 11:03:27 AM  

Brostorm: So everything for the old people now. The Soon to be old people will get everything as well when we still cant afford it. Then my generation will be left with nothing but but higher taxes and no services. Thanks you age pandering asshats




You got that right. If you're a 20 or 30 something, then it is good that you realize now that you are going to retire....poor.


/debt
//more of this?
 
2012-10-04 11:03:33 AM  
Social spending is now over half of our budget, and is the one area we've added and kept enlarging since the 1950s.

Does anyone actually think we'll ever be able to pay this off? I doubt it.

We're heading for default, at which point our currency will be worth a lot less, if not worthless.
 
2012-10-04 11:03:44 AM  
Well then the SS funding shortfall gets pulled from the general fund. Not paying the obligations of the SS trust fund is akin to halting interest payments on the federal debt.

Regardless, the reason there's a funding shortfall now is that unemployment is so high and wages for those lucky enough to have jobs have been stagnant for 30 years. But you keeping harping on mythical problems and mythical solutions involving tax cuts for rich people, submitter - I'm certain one of them will sleep with you sometime this millennium.
 
2012-10-04 11:04:48 AM  
Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme - with overdraft protection.
 
2012-10-04 11:04:49 AM  

iheartscotch: I know you guys really don't like bush; but I like his idea for individual accounts; where you put your money and you have control over it after you are retired. If you have to pay into that account over a lifetime; you'd be set. And the government could still use that money for it's own purposes; as long as they paid 3% interest, and they guaranteed the account for the entire amount of money inside.

/ but something that simple and sane will never happen


The problem is that you are relying on private equity investments by doing this. Imagine if you planned to retire in 2008... just when your investments lost 70% of their value.
 
2012-10-04 11:04:50 AM  

bunner: Ah, ha ha. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?


No.

If you weren't so dumb you'd realize there's nothing stopping you from converting your faith-money to some material thing. If you think it's such a bright idea to have precious metals and other resources, why not just go do that?

/ right... because it's actually a stupid idea and you know it.
 
2012-10-04 11:05:33 AM  

sodomizer: Social spending is now over half of our budget, and is the one area we've added and kept enlarging since the 1950s.

Does anyone actually think we'll ever be able to pay this off? I doubt it.

We're heading for default, at which point our currency will be worth a lot less, if not worthless.


So stock up on shotguns, beer, and blow while you can!
 
2012-10-04 11:06:01 AM  
Retarded right wing blog bullshiat. SS almost always pays out more than it collects in payroll taxes, especially when unemployment is at 8%. These taxes are invested by the SS Trust.

But it's pretty darn good trollin'!
 
2012-10-04 11:06:05 AM  

SDRR: sodomizer: Social spending is now over half of our budget, and is the one area we've added and kept enlarging since the 1950s.

Does anyone actually think we'll ever be able to pay this off? I doubt it.

We're heading for default, at which point our currency will be worth a lot less, if not worthless.

So stock up on shotguns, beer, and blow while you can!


shotguns don't have enough range.
 
2012-10-04 11:06:38 AM  

Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?


The rules by which SS is governed are set by law. It is an off-buget program that has a specific funding source and a specific distibution. Just printing more money does nothing to impact SS directly, so long as you discount the impacts of inflation.

It is probably a good thing that we are decreasing the SS 'trust fund'. In essence, all we are doing is converting intragovernmental debt into public debt. It does not change the total debt at all.

/the game of shuffling liabilities
//who said it was only for large coporations?
 
2012-10-04 11:07:08 AM  
The beginning of Idiocracy?
 
2012-10-04 11:07:13 AM  

bunner: "This currency is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States Government."

And nothing else.

At ALL.

Ah, ha ha. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?


By the entire world? Yeah. I honestly can't think of a single country that doesn't use fractional-reserve banking.
 
2012-10-04 11:07:39 AM  
If only there was some sort of income limit on paying the social security funding tax that could be raised.

If only.
 
2012-10-04 11:08:59 AM  

JackieRabbit: Retarded right wing blog bullshiat. SS almost always pays out more than it collects in payroll taxes, especially when unemployment is at 8%. These taxes are invested by the SS Trust.

But it's pretty darn good trollin'!


People have been getting way more in benefits than they payed in for.ever. The system has never been sustainable. Anyone under what arbitrary age they decide to rape social security at and under should get the option of getting all their money back with interests. This is a ponzi scheme.
 
2012-10-04 11:09:06 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: bunner: Ah, ha ha. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

No.

If you weren't so dumb you'd realize there's nothing stopping you from converting your faith-money to some material thing. If you think it's such a bright idea to have precious metals and other resources, why not just go do that?

/ right... because it's actually a stupid idea and you know it.


So, snotty insulting wanker STILL = intellectual acuity? Oh, internets, as long as we have you, we'll ALWAYS be the smartest kid in 8th grade! *snort* Bye. : )
 
2012-10-04 11:09:39 AM  
WAIT!!!! I saw an article in Time Magazine that said SS was $110 billion in the black this year, and will continue in the black for next 10 years or so.

So much misinformation here.
 
2012-10-04 11:10:17 AM  
Ass Exploder

Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?


Where does the money to create the materials that the money is made from come from anyway? It's not like they pick it up at a dollar store.

We're losing money to print more money causing paper cash to actually lose the value that's printed on it since there's more out there.

Brilliant. I wonder how much my savings will be worth in 20 years
 
2012-10-04 11:10:33 AM  
If only someone, perhaps a presidential candidate in 2000, had made the suggestion that the excess funds being collected be placed in some sort of secure container. Perhaps a box. With a lock securing it. The American people, who are well-known for making wise financial decisions, would have demanded such an obviously sound policy be implemented post-haste.
 
2012-10-04 11:10:55 AM  

GranoblasticMan: By the entire world? Yeah. I honestly can't think of a single country that doesn't use fractional-reserve banking.


Fiat currency. Giving poor people access to food and distractions since the wealthy figured out it was a good idea.©
 
2012-10-04 11:11:11 AM  

JackieRabbit: Retarded right wing blog bullshiat. SS almost always pays out more than it collects in payroll taxes, especially when unemployment is at 8%. These taxes are invested by the SS Trust.


Lol, you actually thing the 'SS Trust' is a pot of money? May want to check on that before you call anyone else retarded.

/or else yousa trollin'
 
2012-10-04 11:11:50 AM  

Brostorm: People have been getting way more in benefits than they payed in for.ever.



Both my parents died at age 65. Tell me again about how everyone gets more than they pay in again?
 
2012-10-04 11:11:56 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: bunner: Ah, ha ha. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

No.

If you weren't so dumb you'd realize there's nothing stopping you from converting your faith-money to some material thing. If you think it's such a bright idea to have precious metals and other resources, why not just go do that?

/ right... because it's actually a stupid idea and you know it.


IRS is.

just sayin. You can't (except for a small set of religious exemptions) get out of paying SS.
 
2012-10-04 11:12:38 AM  

bunner: So, snotty insulting wanker STILL = intellectual acuity? Oh, internets, as long as we have you, we'll ALWAYS be the smartest kid in 8th grade! *snort* Bye. : )


If you weren't so dumb you'd have actually replied instead of tucking your tail and running.

Why don't you convert your faith-money into gold, smart guy? What's stopping you if it's such a wondrous idea?
 
2012-10-04 11:12:43 AM  
Well if your boy Bush hadn't raided the fund to hand out OUR money to his rich asshole friends we wouldn't need to worry about this crap now, would we???

Emphasis on OUR money there because it most definitely is. In case you weren't aware SS has a cap on how much it takes out from your wages, ie it's only based on the first $100k or so of your income. So the lion share of it is paid by the average American. And it was from this that we had a surplus and from that surplus we got the biggest hand-out in history to a group of people who paid relatively little into it. 

THERE'S YOUR DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, TEATARDS.
 
2012-10-04 11:13:04 AM  

Rich Cream: Brostorm: People have been getting way more in benefits than they payed in for.ever.


Both my parents died at age 65. Tell me again about how everyone gets more than they pay in again?



again-again. That means do it four times.
 
2012-10-04 11:13:26 AM  

GranoblasticMan: TsarTom: We're all going to be picking up trash in a Walmart parking lot when we're 90 aren't we?

If it weren't for picking up trash at Walmart, I'd never get laid.


Damnit, Dude - and I just cleaned my monitor screen!

/good one

//budda-boom-ching
 
2012-10-04 11:13:31 AM  
So the past few years of cutting the employee withholding contributions from 6.25% to 4.25% decreased the amount of revenue taken in by the SSA? Color me shocked.

/DNRTFA
 
2012-10-04 11:13:35 AM  

thurstonxhowell: Perhaps a box. With a lock securing it.


So you want to put all that money in a container where it will lose value over time as inflation eats away at it?

Sounds like a good way to invest for retirement with a negative ROI.
 
2012-10-04 11:13:54 AM  
If you want your grandparents living in your garage give up on funding SS
 
2012-10-04 11:13:57 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: iheartscotch: I know you guys really don't like bush; but I like his idea for individual accounts; where you put your money and you have control over it after you are retired. If you have to pay into that account over a lifetime; you'd be set. And the government could still use that money for it's own purposes; as long as they paid 3% interest, and they guaranteed the account for the entire amount of money inside.

That doesn't functionally fix the problem any more than just telling Congress to stop farking picking money out of the savings fund and leaving IOUs.

Also, that idea completely eliminates the entire concept of it being a guaranteed safety net. If I have to put my own money in and I get 3% back why wouldn't I just open another IRA and enjoy tax benefits and more flexibility?


It would have to work like a savings account; the amount in your specific account wouldn't be affected; but they can still use that money, it works for banks.

I'd also be infavor for a provision stating that any monies borrowed from the accounts must be paid back within 90-120 days at 10% interest per every thirty days. The congress critters would never want to borrow from the accounts.

3% is spitballing; it could be more. It won't be guaranteed when the fund runs out of money. Some people either can't or won't open an IRA. Maybe it needs a provision stating that the account holder can't withdraw the whole sum at once .

/ I am open to suggestions
 
2012-10-04 11:15:29 AM  

Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?


Please tell me you're not this dumb.

Imagine two different scenarios:

* There are precisely ten dollar bills in the entire world. My product costs one dollar. You want to buy it. You have to amass ten percent of all the dollar bills in the world to do so.

* There are one million dollar bills in the world for every man, woman, and child. My product still costs one dollar. You only have to amass 0.0001 percent of the average wealth of a human being to purchase my product.

The value of a dollar varies. If you print more, they are easier for *somebody* to obtain (whether it's the trillionaire hoarding it all in a bank somewhere, or the bum who found one in a gutter.) Ergo the value is less. If you print less, they're harder for somebody to obtain, hence they have a higher value.

Printing more money doesn't fix anything.
 
2012-10-04 11:15:59 AM  

JackieRabbit: Retarded right wing blog bullshiat. SS almost always pays out more than it collects in payroll taxes, especially when unemployment is at 8%. These taxes are invested by the SS Trust.

But it's pretty darn good trollin'!


Just in case you're being serious, the social security "trust fund" contains nothing but government IOUs. There's no actual money there.
 
2012-10-04 11:16:20 AM  

bunner: GranoblasticMan: By the entire world? Yeah. I honestly can't think of a single country that doesn't use fractional-reserve banking.

Fiat currency. Giving poor people access to food and distractions since the wealthy figured out it was a good idea.©


Err, yeah. That's the term I was looking for.

/ Brain is working less than functional today
 
2012-10-04 11:16:26 AM  

burning_bridge: Well if your boy Bush hadn't raided the fund to hand out OUR money to his rich asshole friends we wouldn't need to worry about this crap now, would we???


The 'raiding' of the trust fund was not started by Bush. It is how the SS laws have been structured for the last 30 years. Clinton did the same. In fact, if it was not for the SS surpluses being raided, Clinton would not have had any budgetary surpluses at all.
 
2012-10-04 11:16:32 AM  
I'm thirty now. When I was 25, I saw that I was paying into a system that I will most likely never benefit from. It took me a few years but I have made peace with this fact.

I view Social Security in the same way I view communism: it sounds great on paper, but it doesn't quite work well in real life.

I don't care about your political beliefs, but if you're my age or younger and think that you'll be able to retire on Social Security alone, I've got some great ocean front property in Kansas I'd love to sell you.
 
2012-10-04 11:16:32 AM  

Alonjar: iheartscotch: I know you guys really don't like bush; but I like his idea for individual accounts; where you put your money and you have control over it after you are retired. If you have to pay into that account over a lifetime; you'd be set. And the government could still use that money for it's own purposes; as long as they paid 3% interest, and they guaranteed the account for the entire amount of money inside.

/ but something that simple and sane will never happen

The problem is that you are relying on private equity investments by doing this. Imagine if you planned to retire in 2008... just when your investments lost 70% of their value.


It would have to work like a savings account, but with one major difference, your money is guaranteed for the entire amount. I'm not proposing investing that money.
 
2012-10-04 11:16:46 AM  
And remember folks, the foreign employees of American companies who live in India, China, Vietnam, Malaysia... are not US citizens and do not pay SS tax. Only countries with a totalization agreement collects SS tax of US workers working in them on the behalf of the US. So as corporations move more and more jobs off shore, SS will be increasingly underfunded. But their profits are more important than your financial security in your golden years, so STFU and GTFO.
 
2012-10-04 11:16:52 AM  

Cataholic: It's a good thing we have all those excess taxes tucked away and we can readily convert them back to cash in order to pay the benefits. Oh wait...


SS is solvent as-is for another 40 years or so, in anticipation of the Boomers slowly dying off. I think requiring a fund that draws down its surplus over four decades to be 100% liquid is a bit excessive.

It's not perfect, but government has enough problems without Social Security cracking the top 100.
 
2012-10-04 11:17:13 AM  

Brostorm: People have been getting way more in benefits than they payed in for.ever. The system has never been sustainable.


Rank innumeracy and profound ignorance of public policy in 20 words. Nice job.
 
2012-10-04 11:18:34 AM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Well then the SS funding shortfall gets pulled from the general fund. Not paying the obligations of the SS trust fund is akin to halting interest payments on the federal debt.

Regardless, the reason there's a funding shortfall now is that unemployment is so high and wages for those lucky enough to have jobs have been stagnant for 30 years. But you keeping harping on mythical problems and mythical solutions involving tax cuts for rich people, submitter - I'm certain one of them will sleep with you sometime this millennium.


No, the shortfall is because the government keeps borrowing the money and not paying interest. Damn thing should have $5.7 TRILLION dollars in it,* and the $250B+ a year interest would not only give Social Security a surplus, it would give it such a large surplus that we could cut the social security tax. Want to know how the national debt hurts us? This is it. Almost half the national debt is money owed to Social Security.

I'm not worried about working at Walmart when I'm 90. By then, you'll be able to get cyanide with a scrip and I'm sure I'll end it all some time before that.

*As of 2008 or so. I'm sure it's higher now.
 
2012-10-04 11:20:15 AM  

Brostorm: Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?

Yes, and money has a static vale that never changes. Are you an idiot?


No, he's not. It's been policy for years to print more dough, which is one of the leading factors of the dollar losing its value.

Believe you me, everyone will get everything they put in to social security back out-- it will just be essentially worthless.
 
2012-10-04 11:21:42 AM  

Rich Cream: Brostorm: People have been getting way more in benefits than they payed in for.ever.


Both my parents died at age 65. Tell me again about how everyone gets more than they pay in again?


people != everyone
 
2012-10-04 11:24:45 AM  
Soooooooooooo, abolish Social Security and give all the money to the rich?
 
2012-10-04 11:25:24 AM  
Thanks Boomers, for not funding your own retirement. Good work as always.
 
2012-10-04 11:25:48 AM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: No, the shortfall is because the government keeps borrowing the money and not paying interest.


Wrong. All money that is collected in SS revenue and is not paid out goes into the SS trust fund. That money is used to buy interest bearing treasuries. The actual money is then tranferred to the general fund while the treasuries sit in the trust fund bearing interest.

Read more here
 
2012-10-04 11:26:10 AM  

HeadLever: thurstonxhowell: Perhaps a box. With a lock securing it.

So you want to put all that money in a container where it will lose value over time as inflation eats away at it?

Sounds like a good way to invest for retirement with a negative ROI.


Fine, invest it in something, then. Just don't spend it. Letting it just be spent is a good way to not invest for retirement at all.
 
2012-10-04 11:26:32 AM  

TsarTom: We're all going to be picking up trash in a Walmart parking lot when we're 90 aren't we?


No, we'll be fighting over trash in the Walmart parking lot.
 
2012-10-04 11:27:50 AM  

LemSkroob: Thanks Boomers, for not funding your own retirement.


They paid into the system and have accumulated about 2.5 Trillion into the 'Trust Fund'. The boomers did thier part. It was the goverment that spent all of the money and left the Trust Fund as a stack of IOUs.
 
2012-10-04 11:28:08 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: bunner: Ah, ha ha. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

No.

If you weren't so dumb you'd realize there's nothing stopping you from converting your faith-money to some material thing. If you think it's such a bright idea to have precious metals and other resources, why not just go do that?

/ right... because it's actually a stupid idea and you know it.


I dunno... the money I spent on gold has yielded a 275% return.
 
2012-10-04 11:28:41 AM  

HeadLever: The Jami Turman Fan Club: No, the shortfall is because the government keeps borrowing the money and not paying interest.

Wrong. All money that is collected in SS revenue and is not paid out goes into the SS trust fund. That money is used to buy interest bearing treasuries. The actual money is then tranferred to the general fund while the treasuries sit in the trust fund bearing interest.

Read more here


That's an IOU, government style.
 
2012-10-04 11:28:42 AM  

HeadLever: That money is used to buy interest bearing treasuries. The actual money is then tranferred to the general fund while the treasuries sit in the trust fund bearing interest.


Those treasury bonds then represent a liability against the general fund. They're interest-bearing IOUs that the government gives itself.
 
2012-10-04 11:28:48 AM  

thurstonxhowell: Fine, invest it in something, then.


Invest it where? Go on. I would like to know.
 
2012-10-04 11:29:29 AM  
I'm cool with the GOp's reforms on one condition: Since my generation is the one getting screwed, we should be able to opt out of the taxes. why pay for something we will never use?
 
2012-10-04 11:30:35 AM  

Tax Boy: If only there was some sort of income limit on paying the social security funding tax that could be raised.

If only.


lots of this. anyone have any numbers on the additional money that would go into SS if there was no income limit for paying into it? or know why there's an income limit in the first place? i'm too lazy to google.
 
2012-10-04 11:31:10 AM  
You mean I might not get my $50/month when I am 67 in 2043?!?!?!?
 
2012-10-04 11:32:01 AM  

HeadLever: thurstonxhowell: Fine, invest it in something, then.

Invest it where? Go on. I would like to know.


Buy gold.
 
2012-10-04 11:32:55 AM  

thurstonxhowell: HeadLever: That money is used to buy interest bearing treasuries. The actual money is then tranferred to the general fund while the treasuries sit in the trust fund bearing interest.

Those treasury bonds then represent a liability against the general fund. They're interest-bearing IOUs that the government gives itself.


Exactly. That is why the SS trust fund is a part of the total goverment debt. It is considered Intragovernmental debt.

In years of SS deficit, these SS treasury bonds are dedeemed to pay out into the system. In order to do this, the acutal money has to come from the general fund. Since we are in a budgetary defict as well, we are basically swapping Intragovermental debt for public debt. Total debt does not change.
 
2012-10-04 11:33:29 AM  

the801: know why there's an income limit in the first place?


There's a benefit limit, so there's an income limit. I don't have your numbers, but I do know that.
 
2012-10-04 11:34:26 AM  

thurstonxhowell: HeadLever: thurstonxhowell: Fine, invest it in something, then.

Invest it where? Go on. I would like to know.

Buy gold.


I guess we could always fill Fort Knox back up.
 
2012-10-04 11:36:06 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: iheartscotch: I know you guys really don't like bush; but I like his idea for individual accounts; where you put your money and you have control over it after you are retired. If you have to pay into that account over a lifetime; you'd be set. And the government could still use that money for it's own purposes; as long as they paid 3% interest, and they guaranteed the account for the entire amount of money inside.

That doesn't functionally fix the problem any more than just telling Congress to stop farking picking money out of the savings fund and leaving IOUs.

Also, that idea completely eliminates the entire concept of it being a guaranteed safety net. If I have to put my own money in and I get 3% back why wouldn't I just open another IRA and enjoy tax benefits and more flexibility?


Not so what Bush proposed was only partial privatization not 100%. The Bush admisntration proposal was similat to what Sweden already did. The difference was in the amount privatized and how much a person had to set aside. 2.5% vs 4% and 18% vs 12% (6 and 6).

"Sweden's former pension system was a tax-financed, pay-as-you-go entitlement program, similar to the United States' Social Security program. And like in the systems in the United States and other industrialized nations, demographic and financial changes were straining Sweden's tax-and-transfer pension programs. There were only two solutions: Raise taxes and cut benefits to prolong solvency, or give workers private retirement accounts.

In Sweden, policymakers decided that privatization was the best solution. The new system has four key features:

Partial privatization. Workers can invest 2.5 percentage points of the 18.5 percent of their income that they must set aside for retirement. Soon workers will be able to choose the pension fund into which their funds will go.


Notional accounts. The remaining payroll tax funds a dramatically restructured pay-as-you-go government program. Instead of paying benefits based on years in the workforce and earnings history, the new system provides a pension based on the amount of taxes a worker has paid into the system.


Safety net to protect the poor. The government will continue to guarantee a minimum pension funded by general tax revenues.

■Transition to protect retirees and older workers. Current retirees and older workers will continue to receive retirement income based on the old program. Workers born from 1938 to 1953 will receive benefits from both the old and new systems as the new system is gradually introduced.

■Transition to protect retirees and older workers. Current retirees and older workers will continue to receive retirement income based on the old program. Workers born from 1938 to 1953 will receive benefits from both the old and new systems as the new system is gradually introduced.

Swedish workers and retirees will benefit from these reforms. The combination of partial privatization and reform of the pay-as-you-go portion of the retirement system will result in a fiscally sustainable system. In addition, private investments over time will allow workers to benefit from compounding returns, which will increase retirement income. Finally, the reform will benefit the Swedish economy. By reducing the payroll tax rate and linking income to pension benefits, Swedish pension reform will increase incentives to work. The shift to a funded system will also increase national savings and provide capital for future growth.

Link
 
2012-10-04 11:36:42 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: bunner: So, snotty insulting wanker STILL = intellectual acuity? Oh, internets, as long as we have you, we'll ALWAYS be the smartest kid in 8th grade! *snort* Bye. : )

If you weren't so dumb you'd have actually replied instead of tucking your tail and running.

Why don't you convert your faith-money into gold, smart guy? What's stopping you if it's such a wondrous idea?


I dunno, gold has gone up in value quite a bit over the past few decades. I don't have any, but it isn't a super terrible idea.
 
2012-10-04 11:37:04 AM  

LemSkroob: Thanks Boomers, for not funding your own retirement. Good work as always.


You have kool aid on your chin. Did you know? Ah, never mind. Just remember to read all the popular opinion op ed pieces that will inform you as to the scapegoat du jour.
 
2012-10-04 11:37:23 AM  

HeadLever: The Jami Turman Fan Club: No, the shortfall is because the government keeps borrowing the money and not paying interest.

Wrong. All money that is collected in SS revenue and is not paid out goes into the SS trust fund. That money is used to buy interest bearing treasuries. The actual money is then tranferred to the general fund while the treasuries sit in the trust fund bearing interest.

Read more here


You're right, I'm wrong. Been too long since my Business 201 class.
 
2012-10-04 11:40:17 AM  

machoprogrammer: If you weren't so dumb you'd have actually replied instead of tucking your tail and running.


No, no laddie. I kicked your mouthy, troll, 13 year old ass out of my office. : ) U R so DUMN!!1 I mean, you can't buy tickets to sh*t this funny.
 
2012-10-04 11:41:08 AM  
Hey Farkers! How's all this hopey--changey stuff working out for you?
 
2012-10-04 11:41:55 AM  
Oops, that was for.. um, the troll kid, um., *scrolls up*, the Fifth Element fanboi... VMP. Sorry, yo.
 
2012-10-04 11:44:07 AM  

olddinosaur: Hey Farkers! How's all this hopey--changey stuff working out for you?


So far, "this is gonna be a long ass row to hoe, mopping up this mess" isn't any worse than "I can fix EVERYTHING overnight" and then watching Wall St. get the keys to the treasury, again. At least long ball.
 
2012-10-04 11:44:13 AM  
We should probably raise taxes on the super-rich to pay for it. But what am I making sense for, I should stop.
 
2012-10-04 11:44:18 AM  

kriegsgeist: Rich Cream: Brostorm: People have been getting way more in benefits than they payed in for.ever.


Both my parents died at age 65. Tell me again about how everyone gets more than they pay in again?

people != everyone



Fair enough. Although not all the people who start collecting SS benefits live long enough to get back what they paid in. I still claim the original statement is simply not true.

There's a stat somewhere that says what the average time collecting SS to meet payments is and it ain't 1 year.
 
2012-10-04 11:45:17 AM  

Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?


Someone needs an intro to economics class.

That, or their internet privileges revoked.
 
2012-10-04 11:47:50 AM  

Lernaeus: Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?

Someone needs an intro to economics class.

That, or their internet privileges revoked.


t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-04 11:48:50 AM  

Rich Cream: kriegsgeist: Rich Cream: Brostorm: People have been getting way more in benefits than they payed in for.ever.


Both my parents died at age 65. Tell me again about how everyone gets more than they pay in again?

people != everyone


not all the people .


BAH, did it again. OK Brostorm, what the hell do you mean by "people"? A few or a lot?

/lol
 
2012-10-04 11:51:49 AM  
number8: "Just in case you're being serious, the social security "trust fund" contains nothing but government IOUs. There's no actual money there."

Only if you define "actual money" in such a way that there's no "actual money" anywhere except what's in circulation.
Because the second you hand your "actual money" to so much as a bank to put in a bank account? Sure, they keep a spreadsheet about who's allowed to withdraw how much, but the "actual money" gets thrown in one big pile and plowed back into investments, all of which are at least as risky and just as much an "IOU" as treasuries. (And I'd imagine we shouldn't even consider fractional reserve lending, which probably gives you fits.)

Or I suppose you mean to define "actual money" as gold or chickens or some barter-able commodities. In which case just cut out the middle-man and complain directly that the whole world economy is a fraud and has been for decades.
 
2012-10-04 11:52:38 AM  

gweilo8888:

Printing more money doesn't fix anything.


Hence, taxes to burn off the extra money.

Where Money Comes From.
 
2012-10-04 11:54:57 AM  
I think it's a damn good thing we know how badly we're being screwed.

We have little to no faith in this system, which leads us to be more self-dependent. Yes there are those of us who are not on the dole and frankly don't expect it to be there when it comes times.

I understand you can defer receiving payments? That'll probably be a bulk of my generations strategy. Save save, work work, until the day when you absolutely cannot anymore. The smart people will realize that their grandparents' retirement will be vastly different from their own and will enjoy their lives earlier

Anyway I'd rather have Medicare than Social Security so as long as that's okay.... : - /
 
2012-10-04 11:56:09 AM  
Is this going to be another one of those "kill the federal reserve" and "the pope is the antichrist"? Because if so, count me in!
 
2012-10-04 11:56:22 AM  
Currency has no intrinsic value.

It's just IOU's.

Twas ever thus.

It's only value lies in it's ability to move around and promote commerce. Guess what happens when a few people stop moving huge amounts of it around and shove it up their ass and concentrate it all in one place.
 
2012-10-04 11:56:36 AM  
I'm currently sitting in the local Social Security office, so all these replies really kick me.
 
2012-10-04 11:58:50 AM  
Just gimme my big screen TV, my iPhone and some weed and I'll figure out this retirement thing later.
 
2012-10-04 11:58:57 AM  
If we don't give the military $2,100,000,000,000.00 more than they ask for, then this is going to turn into a problem.

No no no, that is part of what we get back from loopholes.
 
2012-10-04 11:59:46 AM  
I'm saving leaves up for my security.
 
2012-10-04 12:04:10 PM  
The difference between crime and war is the amount of people participating at once, uniforms, flags and the budget for armaments.

The people who wear the jackboots and carry tasers are keenly aware of that.

That is why when you get a few thousand people stomping around and complaining in unison, they start cracking skulls and burning the constitution.

Money is civil order. Money keeps people from TAKING what they want. Unless you have enough of it already to get away with it. Money is the ne plus ultra of crowd control devices.
 
2012-10-04 12:06:52 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Well then the SS funding shortfall gets pulled from the general fund. Not paying the obligations of the SS trust fund is akin to halting interest payments on the federal debt.

Regardless, the reason there's a funding shortfall now is that unemployment is so high and wages for those lucky enough to have jobs have been stagnant for 30 years. But you keeping harping on mythical problems and mythical solutions involving tax cuts for rich people, submitter - I'm certain one of them will sleep with you sometime this millennium.


Well the current solutions put in place have seemed to work...oh wait.
 
2012-10-04 12:07:33 PM  

AcneVulgaris: Vegan Meat Popsicle: bunner: Ah, ha ha. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

No.

If you weren't so dumb you'd realize there's nothing stopping you from converting your faith-money to some material thing. If you think it's such a bright idea to have precious metals and other resources, why not just go do that?

/ right... because it's actually a stupid idea and you know it.

I dunno... the money I spent on gold has yielded a 275% return.


... and my Money spent on Apple Computer in 2001 has resulted in a 7000% return ... :-D
 
2012-10-04 12:12:38 PM  
When was the cap last raised? And how much inflation has there been since then? (Note to teatards: We have inflation under Republican and well as Democratic presidents.)
 
2012-10-04 12:13:33 PM  

jaybeezey: Well the current solutions put in place have seemed to work...oh wait.


We've had an obstructionist senate and congress for over 8 years now.

How much work can get done when they're hopelessly deadlocked on how to regulate what people do in their farking bedroom?
 
2012-10-04 12:15:33 PM  

iheartscotch: I know you guys really don't like bush; but I like his idea for individual accounts; where you put your money and you have control over it after you are retired. If you have to pay into that account over a lifetime; you'd be set. And the government could still use that money for it's own purposes; as long as they paid 3% interest, and they guaranteed the account for the entire amount of money inside.

/ but something that simple and sane will never happen


I remember when he said that and I agreed back then and people flipped out because Bush said it.
 
2012-10-04 12:15:45 PM  

pciszek: When was the cap last raised? And how much inflation has there been since then? (Note to teatards: We have inflation under Republican and well as Democratic presidents.)


Not only that, but the entire basis for owning a home and opening a savings account in the last 100 years has been based on the fact that continued inflation is a GOOD thing. Not too much, and not too little, but 3-4% a year is what we've figured.
 
2012-10-04 12:16:44 PM  

dragonchild: It's planned to operate in the red. It's why they raised taxes on the Boomers in the first place; they knew this was gonna happen decades in advance.


Exactly. The issue was fixed in the 80's. But really, let's all invest in the stock market and real estate instead, those are safe and always go up.
 
2012-10-04 12:19:18 PM  

HeadLever: LemSkroob: Thanks Boomers, for not funding your own retirement.

They paid into the system and have accumulated about 2.5 Trillion into the 'Trust Fund'. The boomers did thier part. It was the goverment that spent all of the money and left the Trust Fund as a stack of IOUs.


So much this.....this needs to be shouted from the mountaintops!!!
 
2012-10-04 12:20:04 PM  

Lone Stranger: I'm saving leaves up for my security.


I got a rock.
 
2012-10-04 12:20:49 PM  
When Bush wanted to cut contributions by 2% it was a horrible idea that would starve old people. When Obama actually cut contributions by 2% it was good for the economy.


/facepalmpicard.jpg
 
2012-10-04 12:21:53 PM  

Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?


The fed creates money, not the government. President Kennedy tried printing money and look where that got him.
 
2012-10-04 12:22:25 PM  

RumsfeldsReplacement: Don't worry. Once 0bummer is out of office, we'll cut taxes and balance the budget then there will be higher employment, higher wages, which mean Social Security will be saved.


Saved by Dinosaur Jeebus, who also can't count or work a wallet.
 
2012-10-04 12:22:46 PM  

Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?


There is nothing federal about the federal reserve that prints our money. It's a private company that prints and controls the US dollar. They basically sell the cash to the US government. Almost 75% of our national debt is owed to these robbers. The creation of the central bank known as the federal reserve has done nothing, but damage the value of the dollar and send us into ever spiraling debt. JFK tried to shut it down and have the government print the money themselves like how it use to be, but look what happened to him.
 
2012-10-04 12:24:01 PM  

Alonjar: iheartscotch: I know you guys really don't like bush; but I like his idea for individual accounts; where you put your money and you have control over it after you are retired. If you have to pay into that account over a lifetime; you'd be set. And the government could still use that money for it's own purposes; as long as they paid 3% interest, and they guaranteed the account for the entire amount of money inside.

/ but something that simple and sane will never happen

The problem is that you are relying on private equity investments by doing this. Imagine if you planned to retire in 2008... just when your investments lost 70% of their value.


This idea is almost on target. This is how I think it should work (lots of minor details to work out of course, exact percentages to be determined, but this gets the general idea across)...

The government should collect ~7% of all reported wages and ~3% of adjusted gross income (AGI) from everyone. All of the 7% and 1/6th of the 3% (0.5% of your taxable income) goes into an account with a balance you can actually check that is specific to you personally, but over which you have no direct control. Everyone gets paid the same amount of interest on this money each year. This money can not be used in any way by the government, nor can it be borrowed against by the government or yourself. It is not considered a personal or federal asset in any way. When you retire the government will distribute this money to you based on the total amount in the account and the kinds of actuarial tables they use now to estimate how long people will live and need to be paid. However, a flat amount per individual first goes to medical insurance. Also there would be a minimum amount people would get paid to ensure survival if they never worked enough to have a decent account balance. If you have money left over when you pass it is added first to your survivor (Widow typically). If you have no survivor it is added to the general fund....

The remaining 5/6ths of the 3% is put into a general fund that is invested in the same way. This fund is used for disability, survivor, and shortfalls in the retirement system. Shortfalls in the retirement system are basically when someone lives longer than expected and empties their account. They keep getting paid at their set rate anyway. Also it is for people with insufficient/no retirement savings in their main account as mentioned earlier.

What is great about a system like this is that really wealthy people often have little or no wages as they have all investment income. So they pay little or nothing into social security at all. That is a MASSIVE flaw in the current system. For instance, Mitt Romney's AGI was about 14 million last year I think. So he would pay 420,000 into the system, of which 70k would go towards his retirement and 350k would go to general fund. Right now, even if he was paid wages last year, he probably isn't putting more than 50k into the system. So this would help resolve this issue, while not being entirely unfair to these individuals, as even people with an AGI of 40k would also be putting in their 3%, and even more of their overall income because all their income is wages, not just some of it.

And, going back to the beginning a little.... The way annual interest would be determined on both funds is that the money would first be pooled. Then most of it would go into set kinds of "safe" almost entirely non-governmental investments... Probably about 70%, managed internally. The remaining 30% would be outsourced to various brokerage firms and banks for very small overall percentage fees. Top performers would get more the following year, and low-performers would get less. Thus providing incentive to get good returns. But the "Safe" investments would insure always positive performance, even in bad years.
 
2012-10-04 12:27:18 PM  

Pair-o-Dice: Lone Stranger: I'm saving leaves up for my security.

I got a rock.


i-love-cartoons.us
 
2012-10-04 12:34:43 PM  

SuperT: RumsfeldsReplacement: Don't worry. Once 0bummer is out of office, we'll cut taxes and balance the budget then there will be higher employment, higher wages, which mean Social Security will be saved.

He won't lower taxes! he's gonna lower rates! those are totes different words!


Congratulations, you've just proven yourself to be smarter than oBongo!
 
2012-10-04 12:34:48 PM  

MrPenny: gweilo8888:

Printing more money doesn't fix anything.

Hence, taxes to burn off the extra money.

Where Money Comes From.


I hope you don't think I'm going to watch that link. I'd rather dig my eyes and ears out with a rusty spork than listen to another of those godawful automatically-generated TTS videos for even one second.

And again, please tell me you're not dumb enough to think money ceases to exist when you pay it as taxes.
 
2012-10-04 12:37:47 PM  

AcneVulgaris: I dunno... the money I spent on gold has yielded a 275% return.


That's an investment you turned around purely on paper, you didn't buy a bunch of gold bars and drums of oil and stick them in a vault somewhere hoping to trade them for chickens because you thought your cash wasn't actually worth anything.

Investing in resources on the belief they'll rise in inherent value and treating them as tradeable assets are two different things. One makes sense, one is the fantasy realm of dumb people who think Ron Paul isn't totally nuts.

hasty ambush: [stuff]


All that sounds good enough in theory, but it still mostly eliminates the blanket guarantee we have now. I don't think Romney or anybody else would ever get it passed.
 
2012-10-04 12:38:24 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: iheartscotch: I know you guys really don't like bush; but I like his idea for individual accounts; where you put your money and you have control over it after you are retired. If you have to pay into that account over a lifetime; you'd be set. And the government could still use that money for it's own purposes; as long as they paid 3% interest, and they guaranteed the account for the entire amount of money inside.

/ but something that simple and sane will never happen

I remember when he said that and I agreed back then and people flipped out because Bush said it.


That; and I think old people thought it would effect them; when it obviously wouldn't. I think that was the beginning of the end; just because you don't like a president doesn't mean that they can't have a good idea.

Privatization isn't always bad; and I like the idea of having a bank account that you controlled that you had been putting money into for your entire life that politicians couldn't spend without strings attatched.

/ For all of his bumbling appearance; I liked W, and you have to remember who he was running against. Al gore would have written a very stern letter to the Taliban after 9/11 and he wouldn't have been able to invent global warming. John Kerry was the elitiest of elites; he has less humanity than Romney, and that is saying something.

// and before someone gets butt hurt; they both lost to bush. Say what you want; but they both lost to a guy that most libs on fark say had the intelligence of a chimp.
 
ows
2012-10-04 12:41:21 PM  
maybe if we could swing an interest only deal, and then take out a huge equity loan?
 
2012-10-04 12:43:16 PM  

gweilo8888: And again, please tell me you're not dumb enough to think money ceases to exist when you pay it as taxes.


When you consider that money is only good for remaining liquid and facilitating commerce and the fact that the government we pay it to is fourteen trillion in hock, it sort of does. : )
 
2012-10-04 12:48:04 PM  

SDRR: sodomizer: Social spending is now over half of our budget, and is the one area we've added and kept enlarging since the 1950s.

Does anyone actually think we'll ever be able to pay this off? I doubt it.

We're heading for default, at which point our currency will be worth a lot less, if not worthless.

So stock up on shotguns, beer, and blow while you can!


You forgot the future universal currency: "Toilet Paper".
 
2012-10-04 12:53:28 PM  

bunner: gweilo8888: And again, please tell me you're not dumb enough to think money ceases to exist when you pay it as taxes.

When you consider that money is only good for remaining liquid and facilitating commerce and the fact that the government we pay it to is fourteen sixteen trillion in hock, it sort of does. : )


/I see you have not consulted the debt clock for a few days :)
 
2012-10-04 12:54:44 PM  

Deep Contact: Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?

The fed creates money, not the government. President Kennedy tried printing money and look where that got him.


Shot?
 
2012-10-04 12:54:51 PM  

burning_bridge: Well if your boy Bush hadn't raided the fund to hand out OUR money to his rich asshole friends we wouldn't need to worry about this crap now, would we???

Emphasis on OUR money there because it most definitely is. In case you weren't aware SS has a cap on how much it takes out from your wages, ie it's only based on the first $100k or so of your income. So the lion share of it is paid by the average American. And it was from this that we had a surplus and from that surplus we got the biggest hand-out in history to a group of people who paid relatively little into it. 

THERE'S YOUR DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, TEATARDS.


I don't understand why there is an income cap on SS tax $110,000. The cap should be at least at $174,000, the salary of congress.
 
2012-10-04 12:56:14 PM  

Beerguy: HeadLever: LemSkroob: Thanks Boomers, for not funding your own retirement.

They paid into the system and have accumulated about 2.5 Trillion into the 'Trust Fund'. The boomers did thier part. It was the goverment that spent all of the money and left the Trust Fund as a stack of IOUs.

So much this.....this needs to be shouted from the mountaintops!!!


That's why it's a goddamned Ponzi scheme. The Government HAS to spend it all by law! Read up on Social Security. They can't leave it in a stock pile somewhere... whatever surplus there is at the end of the fiscal year has to be spent on something else. It's the only work around available because it's unconstitutional to begin with (Government running as a business), but they wanted to implement it.

Wiki on SS Trust Fund

Other interesting reading can be had by looking up how Galveston, TX folks OPTED-OUT of Social Security (before the Gubmin's changed the law so no one else could do that) for a Privatized system.. THAT IS STILL WORKING
NY Times article about Galveston's Privatized SS Alternative
 
2012-10-04 01:00:53 PM  
Gosh, it's almost like the people who've been running things for decades have been wasting our time arguing about stupid shiat that doesn't matter instead of fixing actual problems.
 
2012-10-04 01:01:44 PM  
Reminds me of an economist joke from Poland:

Back during the Solidarity days,a man goes into the Bank of Gdansk to make a deposit. Since he has never kept money in a bank before, he is a little nervous.

"What happens if the Bank of Gdansk should fail?" he asks.

"Well, in that case your money would be insured by the Bank of Warsaw."

"But, what if the Bank of Warsaw fails?"

"Well, there'd be no problem, because the Bank of Warsaw is insured by the National Bank of Poland."

"And if the National Bank of Poland fails?"

"Then your money would be insured by the Bank of Moscow."

"And what if the Bank of Moscow fails?"

"Then your money would be insured by the Great Bank of the Soviet Union."

"And if that bank fails?"

"Well, in that case, you'd lose all your money. But, wouldn't it be worth it?"
 
2012-10-04 01:03:59 PM  

Snowflake Tubbybottom: When Bush wanted to cut contributions by 2% it was a horrible idea that would starve old people. When Obama actually cut contributions by 2% it was good for the economy.


/facepalmpicard.jpg


Some people would be embarrassed by being constantly wrong. But not you, Mr. Real American Hero!

/PONZI SCHEME! HERPADERPA!
 
2012-10-04 01:07:54 PM  
Approves:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-10-04 01:09:56 PM  

gweilo8888: MrPenny: gweilo8888:

And again, please tell me you're not dumb enough to think money ceases to exist when you pay it as taxes.


Money ceases to exist all the time.

Didn't you see that episode of B.J. and the Bear?
 
2012-10-04 01:17:09 PM  

burning_bridge: Well if your boy Bush hadn't raided the fund to hand out OUR money to his rich asshole friends we wouldn't need to worry about this crap now, would we???

Emphasis on OUR money there because it most definitely is. In case you weren't aware SS has a cap on how much it takes out from your wages, ie it's only based on the first $100k or so of your income. So the lion share of it is paid by the average American. And it was from this that we had a surplus and from that surplus we got the biggest hand-out in history to a group of people who paid relatively little into it. 

THERE'S YOUR DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, TEATARDS.


Your retardism, it is full.
 
2012-10-04 01:19:48 PM  
Has anyone pointed out that we've temporarily cut the payroll tax that pays for Social Security the last couple years? You'd think that that might be having some sort of effect.
 
2012-10-04 01:40:26 PM  

HeadLever: thurstonxhowell: Fine, invest it in something, then.

Invest it where? Go on. I would like to know.


investment implies risk. but what it's invested in now (special US treasury bonds) are the safest investment in the world.

plus, it's $2,700,000,000,000. not a lot of markets out there that could handle $2.7T.
 
2012-10-04 01:41:21 PM  

Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?


Not sure if this is brilliant sarcasm.

Can a guy named Ass Exploder really come up with such brilliant sarcasm?
 
2012-10-04 01:42:14 PM  

seanpg71: Has anyone pointed out that we've temporarily cut the payroll tax that pays for Social Security the last couple years? You'd think that that might be having some sort of effect.


I did but I was told I was wrong by some Obamapoligist. So who really knows, right?
 
2012-10-04 01:45:35 PM  

JackieRabbit: These taxes are invested by the SS Trust.


By which you mean "given to Congress to spend on whatever it wants." You should spell that part out.
 
2012-10-04 01:49:16 PM  

Pantubo: Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?

Not sure if this is brilliant sarcasm.

Can a guy named Ass Exploder really come up with such brilliant sarcasm?


I'm thinking yes, sarcasm. I have to believe that he's got at least an elementary level education in economics. Plus, the caps kinda gives it away...I think.

But maybe I'm just being optimistic.
 
2012-10-04 01:50:26 PM  

dragonchild: SS is solvent as-is for another 40 years or so,


If by "solvent" you mean "bankrupt," you are entirely correct.

It went bankrupt last year, in fact.

Of course, when the Feds were swiping all the SS money over the last few decades, they did leave notes saying that they know exactly how much they swiped, and that someone will have to pay it back somehow. So your argument has that going for it.
 
2012-10-04 01:52:45 PM  
Why oh why didn't we listen to the inventor of the Internet?

/LOCKBOX!
//I'm being sarcastic, but on which side of the fence?
 
2012-10-04 01:58:07 PM  
cbswashington.files.wordpress.com
"Social security is good for the next 30 years"

wut?
 
2012-10-04 02:06:37 PM  
Subby is 30 years late with this discovery.

Acutaries have known about it for decades. Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill worked out a solution in the early 80s, which is on track. There is a $2 trillion surplus to cover the negative years.
 
2012-10-04 02:10:23 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: AcneVulgaris: I dunno... the money I spent on gold has yielded a 275% return.

That's an investment you turned around purely on paper, you didn't buy a bunch of gold bars and drums of oil and stick them in a vault somewhere hoping to trade them for chickens because you thought your cash wasn't actually worth anything.


I don't know what drums of oil has to do with anything, but my krugerrands are in a safe deposit box at the bank. The place I bought them from a few years back was happy to give me cash for a few of them, when I wanted to buy a car.

I bought the gold simply because I thought I could sell it for more later. Surprise surprise, I could.

But don't let that stop you wanking off about armageddon fantasies.
 
2012-10-04 02:12:44 PM  

cleek: investment implies risk. but what it's invested in now (special US treasury bonds) are the safest investment in the world.


You realize that US Treasuries are actually Governmental IOUs, correct? To the government, these are liabilties, not assets.
 
2012-10-04 02:18:02 PM  

Pantubo: It went bankrupt last year, in fact.


[citation needed]*

*And by "citation" I mean the Social Security Trust Fund's Chapter 11 papers
 
2012-10-04 02:19:29 PM  

Pantubo: It went bankrupt last year, in fact.


Not really bankrupt. It is now just redeeming the treasuries that are in the 'lock box'. As a result, the general fund has to provide these funds. We are basically swapping governmenal debt for public debt. This process has nothing to do with bankruptcy.
 
2012-10-04 02:20:50 PM  
SOCIAL SECURITY, EXPLAINED

You
: Pantubo, here's $100,000. Please give it back to me, with interest, when I retire.
Me: Sure!

[next day]

You: Nice Ferrari! Wow! Hold on... did you spend my money on a Ferrari?
Me: No, you ignorant slut. I loaned the money to Pantubo Incorporated, and they bought it. Don't worry, they left a signed IOU and everything.


You: I see that's your signature. But, OK. I take it this car will help the business? Maybe impress some clients or something?
Me: Ha! No. We just pick up garbage in the neighborhood.

You: That's alarming. But, OK, as long as the business is profitable.
Me: Are you insane? We are $16 trillion in the hole, and we lose another $1.5 trillion per year.

You: I am officially terrified. How on Earth are you going to get me my $100K plus interest?
Me: Well, hopefully you will die soon. If not, we'll just jack up the garbage collection fees.
You: But I live here. How much more will I have to pay?
Me: Shouldn't be much more than $100K when all is said and done.
 
2012-10-04 02:35:07 PM  

AcneVulgaris: But don't let that stop you wanking off about armageddon fantasies.


I don't think you have any idea what this discussion is about.
 
2012-10-04 02:37:17 PM  
I'm a little confused by TFA. Of course the SS fund is backed by IOUs...why would they keep trillions just sitting around stagnant? What is actually scary here is not that the fund is backed by the government IOU's, it's that it's benefits owed are expected to completely deplete the fund (including all of the interest it's been saving) by 2033.

The combined assets of the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) Trust Funds will be exhausted in 2033, three years sooner than projected last year. The DI Trust Fund will be exhausted in 2016, two years earlier than last year's estimate. The Trustees also project that OASDI program costs will exceed non-interest income in 2012 and will remain higher throughout the remainder of the 75-year period.

In the 2012 Annual Report to Congress, the Trustees announced:

1. The projected point at which the combined Trust Funds will be exhausted comes in 2033 - three years sooner than projected last year. At that time, there will be sufficient non-interest income coming in to pay about 75 percent of scheduled benefits.

2. The projected actuarial deficit over the 75-year long-range period is 2.67 percent of taxable payroll -- 0.44 percentage point larger than in last year's report.

3. Over the 75-year period, the Trust Funds would require additional revenue equivalent to $8.6 trillion in present value dollars to pay all scheduled benefits.

Link

A far more interesting (and frightening) article than TFA. Democrats are completely accurate in saying that it's OK for now because it's backed by the government (because the fund's assets does actually have enough with interest over the years)--however, what's completely inaccurate to say is that it'll forever be OK because it's backed by the government (and no politician would be stupid enough to state this). It's obvious to everyone involved that the SS fund needs to get more money now "somehow" so it can "spread the pain" of paying off the benefits owed in the future. It's the "somehow" that's debated.

/The longer we wait, the more painful it's going to be.
 
2012-10-04 02:38:41 PM  

SuperT: RumsfeldsReplacement: Don't worry. Once 0bummer is out of office, we'll cut taxes and balance the budget then there will be higher employment, higher wages, which mean Social Security will be saved.

He won't lower taxes! he's gonna lower rates! those are totes different words!


Do you not understand agi? Virtually nobody pays the standard rates. There are adjustments made on gross income. Take revenue can be raised by eliminating adjustments. This is not complex tax theory.
 
2012-10-04 02:39:01 PM  
I think we should sell Afghanistan.
 
2012-10-04 02:39:10 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: bunner: So, snotty insulting wanker STILL = intellectual acuity? Oh, internets, as long as we have you, we'll ALWAYS be the smartest kid in 8th grade! *snort* Bye. : )

If you weren't so dumb you'd have actually replied instead of tucking your tail and running.

Why don't you convert your faith-money into gold, smart guy? What's stopping you if it's such a wondrous idea?


Flaming troll is flaming.
 
2012-10-04 02:45:51 PM  

FarkGrudge: A far more interesting (and frightening) article than TFA. Democrats are completely accurate in saying that it's OK for now because it's backed by the government (because the fund's assets does actually have enough with interest over the years)--however, what's completely inaccurate to say is that it'll forever be OK because it's backed by the government (and no politician would be stupid enough to state this). It's obvious to everyone involved that the SS fund needs to get more money now "somehow" so it can "spread the pain" of paying off the benefits owed in the future. It's the "somehow" that's debated.

/The longer we wait, the more painful it's going to be.


I forgot to put my footnote that when I say it's "OK for now" I mean the fund could pay for itself. There are already provisions in place that would automatically cut benefits by 2016 when the DI Trust Fund is exhausted, for example. Meaning, there will be other issues well before it's completely depleted in 2033...just trying to say that the "final doomsday" for this program is already set and expected.
 
2012-10-04 02:46:17 PM  

Alonjar: iheartscotch: I know you guys really don't like bush; but I like his idea for individual accounts; where you put your money and you have control over it after you are retired. If you have to pay into that account over a lifetime; you'd be set. And the government could still use that money for it's own purposes; as long as they paid 3% interest, and they guaranteed the account for the entire amount of money inside.

/ but something that simple and sane will never happen

The problem is that you are relying on private equity investments by doing this. Imagine if you planned to retire in 2008... just when your investments lost 70% of their value.


People dont cash out tgeur 401k in single years. Your scenario is illogical.
 
2012-10-04 02:48:16 PM  

Tax Boy: If only there was some sort of income limit on paying the social security funding tax that could be raised.

If only.


That limit also limits pay outs. Please get educated in how social security works. The cap affects both ends.
 
2012-10-04 02:48:22 PM  

number8: JackieRabbit: Retarded right wing blog bullshiat. SS almost always pays out more than it collects in payroll taxes, especially when unemployment is at 8%. These taxes are invested by the SS Trust.

But it's pretty darn good trollin'!

Just in case you're being serious, the social security "trust fund" contains nothing but government IOUs. There's no actual money there.


Those "government IOUs" are US Treasury bonds. Good luck getting a Treasury bondholder to give you one without you giving them "actual money" for it.
 
2012-10-04 02:50:11 PM  
this thread is depressing and needs more funny images posted
 
2012-10-04 02:51:18 PM  

FeFiFoFark: this thread is depressing and needs more funny images posted


sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-10-04 02:51:39 PM  
Sorry but the only solution to this problem is to put a cap on your life of 66.3 years.
Think of the children.
 
2012-10-04 03:02:45 PM  
If the United States were a mom and pop sore, it'd be nailed shut with plywood and they'd be repo-ing the Pepsi coolers and smokes.
 
2012-10-04 03:04:02 PM  

Vectron: Sorry but the only solution to this problem is to put a cap on your life of 66.3 years.
Think of the children.


In Time.
Link

The clock will start ticking at age 25.
 
2012-10-04 03:06:08 PM  

Beerguy: HeadLever: LemSkroob: Thanks Boomers, for not funding your own retirement.

They paid into the system and have accumulated about 2.5 Trillion into the 'Trust Fund'. The boomers did thier part. It was the goverment that spent all of the money and left the Trust Fund as a stack of IOUs.

So much this.....this needs to be shouted from the mountaintops!!!


Yes and who's government was that? It certainly wasn't the current generations.
 
2012-10-04 03:06:16 PM  

Vectron: Sorry but the only solution to this problem is to put a cap on your life of 66.3 years.
Think of the children.


If your society needs to kill off old people to remain economically stable, your society sucks fat walrus cock. : )

du-knallkopf.net
 
2012-10-04 03:07:40 PM  

Thunderpipes: burning_bridge: Well if your boy Bush hadn't raided the fund to hand out OUR money to his rich asshole friends we wouldn't need to worry about this crap now, would we???

Emphasis on OUR money there because it most definitely is. In case you weren't aware SS has a cap on how much it takes out from your wages, ie it's only based on the first $100k or so of your income. So the lion share of it is paid by the average American. And it was from this that we had a surplus and from that surplus we got the biggest hand-out in history to a group of people who paid relatively little into it. 

THERE'S YOUR DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, TEATARDS.

Your retardism, it is full.



Nice point you came nowhere close to making there. Care to try again? With substance this time?
 
2012-10-04 03:09:59 PM  

boarch: Flaming troll is flaming.


So you put me on ignore on your original account.... and then come back and try to start shiat on your sockpuppet?

Go away, obvious alt. If you want to be a twat, be a twat on your original account.
 
2012-10-04 03:17:41 PM  
Welcome to the 1980's son.
 
2012-10-04 03:26:15 PM  

Pantubo: Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?

Not sure if this is brilliant sarcasm.

Can a guy named Ass Exploder really come up with such brilliant sarcasm?


Well, jon stewert did do something on the reserve giving 7 trillion to banks, Link, as well as the fractional reserve banking system where for each dollar they have, they create loans out of thin air based on their reserve ratio and target set rate set by the central bank. So it's true to an extent I think.

I don't think what he's saying is that the reserve just creates money to have it lying around, at least as far as I can figure out.
 
2012-10-04 03:35:12 PM  

tonguedepressor: I think we should sell Afghanistan.


And screw the CIA out of all the drug money! What are you thinking?
 
2012-10-04 03:39:26 PM  

links136:
Yes and who's government was that? It certainly wasn't the current generations.


Ask Al Gore. Maybe he has found the lockbox by now.
 
2012-10-04 03:50:22 PM  

bunner: If the United States were a mom and pop sore, it'd be nailed shut with plywood and they'd be repo-ing the Pepsi coolers and smokes.


If the U.S. were a strip club, it'd be all daytime strippers with meth mouth, C-section scars and pancake boobs.

This is fun. I'm gonna see if I can come up with some more ...
 
2012-10-04 03:50:41 PM  

links136: Beerguy: HeadLever: LemSkroob: Thanks Boomers, for not funding your own retirement.

They paid into the system and have accumulated about 2.5 Trillion into the 'Trust Fund'. The boomers did thier part. It was the goverment that spent all of the money and left the Trust Fund as a stack of IOUs.

So much this.....this needs to be shouted from the mountaintops!!!

Yes and who's government was that? It certainly wasn't the current generations.


Try back in 1937 the so called "Greatest Genreration"

Helvering vs. Davis (1937) U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Social Security was not an insurance program: "The proceeds of both taxes [employee and employer ] are to be paid into the Treasury like internal revenue taxes generally, and are not ear-marked in any way."

Helvering v. Davis No. 910 SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
 
2012-10-04 03:53:49 PM  
If the U.S. was a car, it'd be a 1982 Ford Fiesta with a cracked windshield, a driver's side door that doesn't close completely and an ashtray full of cigarette butts.
 
2012-10-04 03:57:34 PM  
If the U.S. was a hamburger, it'd be a half-eaten one from McDonald's that your kid stuffed under the back seat of your car 5 years ago.
 
2012-10-04 04:16:28 PM  
hall.hdfillms.netdna-cdn.com

That one's a car, 275 thou... might want to hold onto that one.
 
2012-10-04 04:32:13 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: If the U.S. was a hamburger, it'd be a half-eaten one from McDonald's that your kid stuffed under the back seat of your car 5 years ago.


If the U.S. was ya mama, she'd be soooooo fat. : )
 
2012-10-04 04:32:41 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: If the U.S. was a hamburger, it'd be a half-eaten one from McDonald's that your kid stuffed under the back seat of your car 5 years ago.


If the United States was a corperation; it would be Enron.
 
2012-10-04 04:34:13 PM  

LoveRBS: I think it's a damn good thing we know how badly we're being screwed.

We have little to no faith in this system, which leads us to be more self-dependent. Yes there are those of us who are not on the dole and frankly don't expect it to be there when it comes times.

I understand you can defer receiving payments? That'll probably be a bulk of my generations strategy. Save save, work work, until the day when you absolutely cannot anymore. The smart people will realize that their grandparents' retirement will be vastly different from their own and will enjoy their lives earlier

Anyway I'd rather have Medicare than Social Security so as long as that's okay.... : - /


Compared to the projected deficit in Medicare, SS isn't even worth talking about....
 
2012-10-04 04:35:09 PM  
If the United States was an operating system; it would be windows vista.
 
2012-10-04 04:39:34 PM  
If the United States was a television show; it would be "here comes honey boo boo".
 
2012-10-04 04:41:28 PM  

iheartscotch: Smelly Pirate Hooker: If the U.S. was a hamburger, it'd be a half-eaten one from McDonald's that your kid stuffed under the back seat of your car 5 years ago.

If the United States was a corperation; it would be Enron.


The United States *is* a corporation. And they're moving the head office. Away. If you look outside, you can see the ass end of the getaway car.
 
2012-10-04 04:44:12 PM  

bunner: iheartscotch: Smelly Pirate Hooker: If the U.S. was a hamburger, it'd be a half-eaten one from McDonald's that your kid stuffed under the back seat of your car 5 years ago.

If the United States was a corperation; it would be Enron.

The United States *is* a corporation. And they're moving the head office. Away. If you look outside, you can see the ass end of the getaway car.


If the United States was a getaway car driver; it would be Tyrone from Snatch.
 
2012-10-04 04:47:52 PM  
If the United States was a fraud; it would be a Ponzi Scheme.
 
2012-10-04 04:55:07 PM  

RumsfeldsReplacement: ddam: We knew it was going to run in the red 60 years ago when the baby boom happened. Maybe if we actually put all the surpluss we had thus far in a lockbox and not raid that fund for wars, tax cuts and other programs that were not paid for we would not have a problem.

But what idiot would propose such a lockbox?

Better yet, instead of taking people's money, only to return it to them 50 years later (heavily devalued), maybe people could invest in a retirement fund of their choice, that actually appreciates.

 
2012-10-04 05:17:02 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Any questions?
 
2012-10-04 05:34:03 PM  

olddinosaur: [upload.wikimedia.org image 600x300]

(on hundred trillion dollar note) Any questions?


You know what's funny about inflation? It proves that money has no intrinsic value, the numbers are arbitrary and the point is to use it to leverage actual wealth or just get by, depending on which end of the sucker you get to lick.

"Your bill is 100,000.00, sir."

*scribbles three zeros on a C- note* "Here ya go, pal."

Ha, ha ha. Our economy is based on poor people needing to bob for rotten apples with nifty bits of magnetic ink on them.
 
2012-10-04 05:36:40 PM  

GranoblasticMan: bunner: "This currency is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States Government."

And nothing else.

At ALL.

Ah, ha ha. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

By the entire world? Yeah. I honestly can't think of a single country that doesn't use fractional-reserve banking.


There are still a few small republics that use currency backed by precious metals.
 
2012-10-04 05:57:01 PM  

links136: Pantubo: Ass Exploder: Does anyone seriously not understand that the federal government PRINTS MONEY and CANNOT POSSIBLY RUN OUT OF MONEY?

That there is not a limited supply of money in the world, it is printed and created out of nothing by the government?

Not sure if this is brilliant sarcasm.

Can a guy named Ass Exploder really come up with such brilliant sarcasm?

Well, jon stewert did do something on the reserve giving 7 trillion to banks, Link, as well as the fractional reserve banking system where for each dollar they have, they create loans out of thin air based on their reserve ratio and target set rate set by the central bank. So it's true to an extent I think.

I don't think what he's saying is that the reserve just creates money to have it lying around, at least as far as I can figure out.


It's ironic - if not encouraging - to hear a lib, like Stewart, condemn the central banking system.
 
2012-10-04 08:01:06 PM  
The United States is so poor, achingachingaching said our Chinese overlords.
 
2012-10-04 09:08:39 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: AcneVulgaris: But don't let that stop you wanking off about armageddon fantasies.

I don't think you have any idea what this discussion is about.


That's what happens when I chat with a crazy bum at the library.
 
2012-10-04 09:11:27 PM  
Yeah, right. US Treasury bonds are just this side of toilet paper.
 
2012-10-04 09:13:36 PM  

olddinosaur: [upload.wikimedia.org image 600x300]

Any questions?


You guys have been predicting dire inflation for years. Where is it?
 
2012-10-04 10:03:16 PM  

olddinosaur: [upload.wikimedia.org image 600x300]

Any questions?


Why don't you go fark yourself?
 
2012-10-04 10:51:16 PM  

olddinosaur: [upload.wikimedia.org image 600x300]

Any questions?


Yeah... why the fark are negros building cairns and printing their likeness on cheap toilet paper? That's really offensive to the ancient Europeans who put a lot of religious weight into their cairn building practices.
 
2012-10-06 04:36:02 AM  

Beerguy: HeadLever: LemSkroob: Thanks Boomers, for not funding your own retirement.

They paid into the system and have accumulated about 2.5 Trillion into the 'Trust Fund'. The boomers did thier part. It was the goverment that spent all of the money and left the Trust Fund as a stack of IOUs.

So much this.....this needs to be shouted from the mountaintops!!!


Who was running the government when all this money went away.

/oh right. boomers.
//I knew at the age of 10 or so I'd have no social security when I'm old
///already bought my 12 gauge shotgun shell and labeled it "This way to retirement" in case I can't get bullets then either.
 
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