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(CNN)   CNN Poll: Romney wins debate by big margin   (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 396
    More: Obvious, ORC International, Republican nominee  
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3012 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Oct 2012 at 10:06 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



396 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2012-10-04 09:55:30 AM  
'Winning' the Talking Out Your Ass and Disavowing Everything Spoken on the Campaign Trail categories isn't 'Winning'.

What everyone saw was a glimpse of classic Bain Mitt... The oily, Say Anything guy who relies on his overinflated self-worth and utter lack of integrity to close a deal.
 
2012-10-04 09:58:33 AM  

markie_farkie: 'Winning' the Talking Out Your Ass and Disavowing Everything Spoken on the Campaign Trail categories isn't 'Winning'.

What everyone saw was a glimpse of classic Bain Mitt... The oily, Say Anything guy who relies on his overinflated self-worth and utter lack of integrity to close a deal.


Perception is reality

JFK and Nixon had the first televised Presidential debate. Nixon mopped the floor with JFK, but because of Nixon being ill, JFK was seen as the real winner.

A lot of times it does not matter what is said, just how its said.
 
2012-10-04 10:01:44 AM  
I think there are a whole lot of people on both sides that need to step back, get a grip, and get some perspective.
 
2012-10-04 10:02:34 AM  
So did John Kerry.
 
2012-10-04 10:03:00 AM  
Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage. Yes, the fact-checkers will tear Mitt a new one, but the impression has already been made.
 
2012-10-04 10:04:13 AM  
Obama debated like a guy who doesn't care if he gets reelected.
 
2012-10-04 10:05:00 AM  
Did anyone change their vote?
 
2012-10-04 10:06:44 AM  
Bush lost his 2004 debates in every way possible, but still got four more years to blame on Obama.
 
2012-10-04 10:06:48 AM  

BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage.


I don't think that anyone on the Obama campaign ever seriously contemplated that Romney would just ignore reality and substitute his own delusions.
 
2012-10-04 10:08:14 AM  
If Obama gets beaten like a rented mule by a milquetoast idiot like Romney, how can we trust him to back down Putin and China?
 
2012-10-04 10:09:04 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage.

I don't think that anyone on the Obama campaign ever seriously contemplated that Romney would just ignore reality and substitute his own delusions.


Then they obviously haven't been paying attention for the last 5 years and should all be immediately fired.
 
2012-10-04 10:09:09 AM  
Hopefully that thought will keep him nice and warm when he's not elected President.
 
2012-10-04 10:09:34 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage.

I don't think that anyone on the Obama campaign ever seriously contemplated that Romney would just ignore reality and substitute his own delusions.


That's what I told SWMBO this morning. I think Obama was blindsided by Romney just talking out his ass like what he was saying was both accurate and what he's been saying all along, and wasn't prepared for it. I think Obama was rattled.
 
2012-10-04 10:09:40 AM  
It changes nothing as far as the Presidential race is concerned. Romney's performance may help the congressional races.
 
2012-10-04 10:10:05 AM  

James!: Did anyone change their vote?


I'll be checking 538's Friday polls. We all said that if Romney didn't crap his pants onstage that the MSM would declare him the victor - and that has come to pass. Whether it effects anything that matters remains to be seen.
 
2012-10-04 10:10:14 AM  

James!: Did anyone change their vote?


I don't think it's about that. Mitt base is now newly energized. There were stories about donors getting cold feet and now they'll come back aboard again. This election isn't going to be about undecideds. It's going to be about turnout. Mitt went a long way last night to helping his election day turnout.
 
2012-10-04 10:10:33 AM  

James!: Did anyone change their vote?


No, but it might have swayed low information voters.
 
2012-10-04 10:11:25 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage.

I don't think that anyone on the Obama campaign ever seriously contemplated that Romney would just ignore reality and substitute his own delusions.


Then they were stupid. Because that's all he got. And he got away with it.
 
2012-10-04 10:11:36 AM  

JerseyTim: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

I don't think it's about that. Mitt base is now newly energized. There were stories about donors getting cold feet and now they'll come back aboard again. This election isn't going to be about undecideds. It's going to be about turnout. Mitt went a long way last night to helping his election day turnout.


Similarly, I'll bet Obama's donations have completely dried up. He's going to have to spend valuable campaign time doing fundraisers instead
 
2012-10-04 10:11:51 AM  
How can we trust a CNN? They are a regular source of skewed polls.
 
2012-10-04 10:12:27 AM  

kronicfeld: So did John Kerry.


This, I remember all my liberal/Dem friends crowing how Bush was toast after that debate. 2 weeks later the polls hadn't changes at all.

James!: Did anyone change their vote?


See above comment.


Just as I predicted, Romney won this debate the same way Palin won her debate with Biden, lowered expectations and not farking up.
 
2012-10-04 10:12:46 AM  

Diogenes: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage.

I don't think that anyone on the Obama campaign ever seriously contemplated that Romney would just ignore reality and substitute his own delusions.

Then they were stupid. Because that's all he got. And he got away with it.


Luckily, he won't in the upcoming foreign policy debate. If Obama doesn't eat Romney's lunch and dinner and retroactively impregnate his wife, he's not really worth the vote considering Romney's foreign policy ideas are nigh apocalyptic.
 
2012-10-04 10:12:49 AM  
img1.fark.netRomney vows public execution of Big Bird, concentration camp for Snuffaluffagus
 
2012-10-04 10:13:02 AM  

globalwarmingpraiser: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

No, but it might have swayed low information voters.


Doubtful...Republicans were already voting for Romney.
 
2012-10-04 10:13:04 AM  
Obama didn't seem to give a fark so why should I?
 
2012-10-04 10:13:10 AM  
real question, how will this effect the poll numbers?

/off to 538
 
2012-10-04 10:13:14 AM  

JerseyTim: Mitt base is now newly energized.


How about the Republican base?
 
2012-10-04 10:14:00 AM  
- Lie at least 5 times whenever it's your turn to speak.
- Smirk creepily the entire time it's not your turn to speak.
- Flip-flop on core issues.
- Talk about firing the moderator.

So this is what a Republican "win" looks like, eh?
 
2012-10-04 10:14:08 AM  

markie_farkie: 'Winning' the Talking Out Your Ass and Disavowing Everything Spoken on the Campaign Trail categories isn't 'Winning'.

What everyone saw was a glimpse of classic Bain Mitt... The oily, Say Anything guy who relies on his overinflated self-worth and utter lack of integrity to close a deal.


Cry more. Please.
 
2012-10-04 10:14:31 AM  

Diogenes: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage.

I don't think that anyone on the Obama campaign ever seriously contemplated that Romney would just ignore reality and substitute his own delusions.

Then they were stupid. Because that's all he got. And he got away with it.


Yep. He could win the election this way. Noone is going to improve things though until we quit playing Empire games.
 
2012-10-04 10:15:00 AM  

mayIFark: real question, how will this effect the poll numbers?

/off to 538


We won't have a real answer to that question for another week.
 
2012-10-04 10:15:11 AM  
Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.
 
2012-10-04 10:15:34 AM  
Mitt Romney wins!! Free Horse Ballet and Truffled Escargot for all the proletariat!!!
 
2012-10-04 10:15:43 AM  
Yeah, Obama did terrible. He could have addressed Romney's bullshiat, but instead he stuck to some rehearsed talking points. $716 Billion was RIGHT THERE for you on a silver plate, multiple times. Obama, the fark were you doing?

Jim Lehrer is the loser, dude couldn't moderate shiat.
 
2012-10-04 10:15:52 AM  
Mitt came out swinging and POTUS looked like he was trying to run out the clock.
 
2012-10-04 10:16:03 AM  
I agree that Romney "won" because he seemed like a normal human. Obama didn't seem his best
 
2012-10-04 10:16:17 AM  
Yet, CNN's "Fact Checkers" show that nearly every major claim/point made by Romney was NOT indeed factual.

I guess I can win an argument as well, by lying my ass off. Now, let's see if the media actually does its job and calls out Romney over the next week on all the lies he put out there during the debates.
 
2012-10-04 10:16:25 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.


He just controlled the conversation the most. Always got the last word. Steamrolled the moderator.
 
2012-10-04 10:16:30 AM  
Yes, Romney won. If you think he lost just because he lied through his teeth the whole time, please explain to me how we have a Republican majority in the House and enough of them in the senate to filibuster. Tell me how that is the case if lying makes you lose.
 
2012-10-04 10:16:36 AM  

Diogenes: And he got away with it.


Still two more debates to go.

f Obama had come out swinging and mopped the floor with Romney right out of the gate, and dropped the "47 Percent" bomb, he'd most likely swing a lot of voters Romney's way, out of sympathy. Then there's nowhere for Obama to go in future debates.
 
2012-10-04 10:16:39 AM  
Nothing says dependable like an online poll on America's dumbest news networkTM
 
2012-10-04 10:16:41 AM  

BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage. Yes, the fact-checkers will tear Mitt a new one, but the impression has already been made.




Baffling with bullshiat is the name of the game in politics.
 
2012-10-04 10:16:54 AM  

nyseattitude: [img1.fark.net image 54x11]Romney vows public execution of Big Bird, concentration camp for Snuffaluffagus


i21.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-04 10:17:28 AM  

nyseattitude: [img1.fark.net image 54x11]Romney vows public execution of Big Bird, concentration camp for Snuffaluffagus


How about Big Bird paying his own bills with his merchandising income.
 
2012-10-04 10:17:34 AM  
Foreman is killing Ali out there!
 
2012-10-04 10:17:43 AM  
CNN's internals (pdf)

if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50. hardly obama-friendly in the first place.
 
2012-10-04 10:17:48 AM  

BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage. Yes, the fact-checkers will tear Mitt a new one, but the impression has already been made.


Also known as the Gish Gallop. Obama should have seen it coming. Apparently he didn't, and it hurt him.
 
2012-10-04 10:17:55 AM  

cman: markie_farkie: 'Winning' the Talking Out Your Ass and Disavowing Everything Spoken on the Campaign Trail categories isn't 'Winning'.

What everyone saw was a glimpse of classic Bain Mitt... The oily, Say Anything guy who relies on his overinflated self-worth and utter lack of integrity to close a deal.

Perception is reality

JFK and Nixon had the first televised Presidential debate. Nixon mopped the floor with JFK, but because of Nixon being ill, JFK was seen as the real winner.

A lot of times it does not matter what is said, just how its said.


Pretty much.
 
2012-10-04 10:17:55 AM  
Boba Chet: globalwarmingpraiser: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

No, but it might have swayed low information voters.

Doubtful...Republicans were already voting for Romney.


True swing voters are personality people. Romney looked like a decisive and powerful man. Considering war with Iran is coming that is likely a selling point.
 
2012-10-04 10:17:55 AM  

vernonFL: I agree that Romney "won" because he seemed like a normal human. Obama didn't seem his best



He was drugged


/it's a conspiracy
 
2012-10-04 10:18:01 AM  
I'm glad Mitt won the debate. It might give him something to cling to, on those cold winter nights, when he can't sleep and slowly begins to realize that he isn't a real person, just a hollow shell desperately seeking the approval of those around him. Haunted by his fathers disdain, unable to ever be popular enough, or rich enough to outrun the pain, maybe winning the debate will sustain him when he drops the bottle of jack and reaches for the revolver on the side table.....


I pity the man. I really do.
 
2012-10-04 10:18:44 AM  

cman: markie_farkie: 'Winning' the Talking Out Your Ass and Disavowing Everything Spoken on the Campaign Trail categories isn't 'Winning'.

What everyone saw was a glimpse of classic Bain Mitt... The oily, Say Anything guy who relies on his overinflated self-worth and utter lack of integrity to close a deal.

Perception is reality

JFK and Nixon had the first televised Presidential debate. Nixon mopped the floor with JFK, but because of Nixon being ill, JFK was seen as the real winner.

A lot of times it does not matter what is said, just how its said.


Sadly, this.

That said, I don't see this debate hurting Obama that much.
 
2012-10-04 10:18:46 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.


It's pretty straightforward. Victory basically comes from being assertive, sounding like you know what you're talking about, and portraying some semblance of charisma. Regardless of the veracity of his statements, Romney displayed all three of those qualities last night. Obama displayed none. Anyone with a shred of non-bias in them could see it in plain view last night. Romney "won" handily, and it wasn't even remotely close.
 
2012-10-04 10:18:46 AM  

markie_farkie: lack of integrity


It's made him an ungodly, INSANELY wealthy human being.
 
2012-10-04 10:18:49 AM  
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-04 10:19:24 AM  
It is the Sarah Palin formula. As long as you don't stab yourself in the back, or put your foot in your own mouth during the debate, you are a winner.

Someone really needs to create a video of Mitt flippling like a flatjack on every issue. Just use Gov Mitt, Canidate Mitt, and Debater Mitt, and people will learn he has no credibility, cannot be trusted, and will say anything to get want he wants
 
2012-10-04 10:19:28 AM  

soy_bomb: How about Big Bird paying his own bills with his merchandising income.


How about the majority of PBS funding coming from the public not from the feds (or china)?
 
2012-10-04 10:19:29 AM  

Amos Quito: BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage. Yes, the fact-checkers will tear Mitt a new one, but the impression has already been made.



Baffling with bullshiat is the name of the game in politics.


Republicans, and especially Mitt, turned the bullshiat dial to eleven in '08, and haven't stopped turning the dial since. They are slime, even compared to past politicians.
 
2012-10-04 10:19:31 AM  

soy_bomb: nyseattitude: [img1.fark.net image 54x11]Romney vows public execution of Big Bird, concentration camp for Snuffaluffagus

How about Big Bird paying his own bills with his merchandising income.


How about Romney showing us how he intends to pay for his economic plans with something more realistic than fishing through the national couch cushions for lost change?
 
2012-10-04 10:19:34 AM  

utharda: I'm glad Mitt won the debate. It might give him something to cling to, on those cold winter nights, when he can't sleep and slowly begins to realize that he isn't a real person, just a hollow shell desperately seeking the approval of those around him. Haunted by his fathers disdain, unable to ever be popular enough, or rich enough to outrun the pain, maybe winning the debate will sustain him when he drops the bottle of jack and reaches for the revolver on the side table.....


I pity the man. I really do.


That's the sort of congratulations speech I want at my retirement.
 
2012-10-04 10:19:53 AM  
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-04 10:19:57 AM  

LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.

He just controlled the conversation the most. Always got the last word. Steamrolled the moderator.


So just aggression? That's what wins? Content be damned I guess. And here I thought it was a debate.
 
2012-10-04 10:20:31 AM  
If my conspiracy theory about Mossad doing some serious bullshiat yesterday that they knew American intelligence would pick up on and would get to the president before the debate - or some such - isn't a correct explanation for what was distracting him, then I can only conclude that Obama was just doing what has seemed to work so far: Keep it under control, stick to the usual boring talking points and let Mitt come out swinging and say something stupid.

The thing is, Mitt did say some stupid shiat, but he did it in a convincing way that is sure to fool the dumbass undecideds who probably spend their freetime obsessing over their antique shoehorn collections and watching Honey Boo Boo instead of finetuning their bullshiat detectors. And for the same reasons, they probably won't follow up on the facts- and the GOP knows it.

Obama let it all happen for reasons only he knows.
 
2012-10-04 10:20:34 AM  
I could rattle off about 3 dozen farkers who could have done better than Obama did last night. And most them aren't even my alts.
 
2012-10-04 10:20:43 AM  
He won because he didn't fail miserably. Who cares anyway, he thinks getting rid of Sesame Street will balance the budget.
 
2012-10-04 10:20:59 AM  
Romney definitely wins the bullshiat award and the accuse your opponent of what you're doing medal. (His cute little reference to his boys saying something that isn't true while Obama was skewering his tax policy which apparently isn't his tax policy because he's quantum Mitt!)
 
2012-10-04 10:21:15 AM  

globalwarmingpraiser: True swing voters are personality people. Romney looked like a decisive and powerful man. Considering war with Iran is coming that is likely a selling point.


Maybe better to just elect the people that aren't going to rush into war with Iran instead...
 
2012-10-04 10:21:30 AM  
love how 0bama said that his goal is to have everyone get their fair share.

then he stumbled away trying to fix that

you would think that he would do a lot better with the closing statement, the one thing he can control.

67 to 25 in a poll that over samples democrats

if it were a fair and balanced poll, and the moderator gave as much time to Romney and didn't feel threatened by the PBS funding being pulled.
 
2012-10-04 10:21:50 AM  

FlashHarry: CNN's internals (pdf)

if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50. hardly obama-friendly in the first place.


Yeah, this needs to be stressed a little bit more. I don't think the general perception of who won the debate would change, but only asking white southerners over the age of 50 with some college education and who only identify themselves as moderate or conservative is not a good representative sample of the country as a whole.
 
2012-10-04 10:21:57 AM  
Romney supports war with Iran. Obama doesn't.

There are people in this country who look forward to war with Iran like a new bicycle on Christmas morning. But in the end it will be other people's loved ones who go half way round the world to fight in Iran. 1.5 million military were put into Iraq, a country one fourth the size of Iran. Look through your family and friends and count how many will be drafted to fight in a war Romney won't send his children into.

Some of your loved ones won't come back from Iran; some will come back shattered; some will come back and fit right back into life here. But in the end, it will be a war that was lusted after by a rich few, that was not necessary, that was not fought by the ones who wanted it so bad, and a war that ruined innocent lives at home and around the world.

The choice between Romney and Obama is a choice to find an excuse for war with Iran or to find an end to another war. Vote in Romney and an excuse to invade Iran will appear someday soon. Just like it did with the Gulf of Tonkin and Vietnam. And the people who voted for Romney will look at the story in the media and say "Well, I didn't see that coming but we have to go into Iran now."

Well, consider yourselves warned. You want slaughter? Romney will give it to you and yours and countless innocents.
 
2012-10-04 10:21:58 AM  

Diogenes: I think there are a whole lot of people on both sides that need to step back, get a grip, and get some perspective.



Said like someone who can't stand that his guy lost and Big Bird is gonna die and that Romneycare was bi-partisan and that....uh...you know, can we just have a beer and cuddle now?
 
2012-10-04 10:22:19 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.

He just controlled the conversation the most. Always got the last word. Steamrolled the moderator.

So just aggression? That's what wins? Content be damned I guess. And here I thought it was a debate.


Look at the most important debate moments over the past 4 decades. How many of them are when one candidate put forth excellent policy ideas and how many are pithy one liners and showmanship. Don't think of it as a debate, think of it as a candidate advertisement.
 
2012-10-04 10:22:29 AM  
90 minutes of exchanging talking points is far more important than what the policies do to our quality of life in the United States.
 
2012-10-04 10:22:31 AM  

globalwarmingpraiser: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

No, but it might have swayed low information voters.



I think it's more about unlikely voters.  Will Mitt's performance last night convince someone who wasn't going to bother to show up in November. 
 
Romney is also going to get brutalized in the media over the next week for the lying. 
 
2012-10-04 10:22:55 AM  
I agree that Mitt won the debate simply from perception. He didn't say anything of substance at all though.
 
2012-10-04 10:22:56 AM  
That settles it. I'm voting for Romney. Thanks for the heads up.
 
2012-10-04 10:23:03 AM  

Magnetar: If my conspiracy theory about Mossad doing some serious bullshiat yesterday that they knew American intelligence would pick up on and would get to the president before the debate - or some such - isn't a correct explanation for what was distracting him, then I can only conclude that Obama was just doing what has seemed to work so far: Keep it under control, stick to the usual boring talking points and let Mitt come out swinging and say something stupid.


Put down the crack pipe, dude.

Next thing you will be telling me is that the Lizard people were responsible for the 7-7 attacks in the UK
 
2012-10-04 10:23:04 AM  

LordJiro: Amos Quito: BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage. Yes, the fact-checkers will tear Mitt a new one, but the impression has already been made.



Baffling with bullshiat is the name of the game in politics.

Republicans, and especially Mitt, turned the bullshiat dial to eleven in '08, and haven't stopped turning the dial since. They are slime, even compared to past politicians.



It is the natural evolution of all political animals
 
2012-10-04 10:23:47 AM  
He always reverted back to what he did in his state. Of course Massachusetts has all this wonderful healthcare and schools, it's like the richest state in the union, right? It's like going to a racetrack, getting handed the best car, then saying you got the fastest lap because you're the best driver *rollseyes*.
 
2012-10-04 10:23:54 AM  
Doesn't change my vote.

This is what happens when an unemployed guy with plenty of time interviews for a job against someone who works 16 hrs a day and has to campaign and simultaneously run the free world. If Obama seemed tired maybe he was simply tired. You can't just stop being the President because you have a debate. That was the difference in 'energy'.

Romney had nothing substantive to say except, 'you'll see'. His policies are all wishy washy bullshiat. State by state healthcare would be a farking mess. His tax policy is total bullshiat.

Certainly Romney will get a boost in the polls, because people are stupid sheep and buy into the bullying crap as true leadership and the news media needs ratings and money and a tight race does that.

What I saw out there was a petulant child who had to have the last word on every single issue, who wouldn't shut up, who told lie after lie. That's what you're going to get in Romney. A bunch of lies and a guy who won't know when to STFU.
 
2012-10-04 10:24:04 AM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Romney supports war with Iran. Obama doesn't.

There are people in this country who look forward to war with Iran like a new bicycle on Christmas morning. But in the end it will be other people's loved ones who go half way round the world to fight in Iran. 1.5 million military were put into Iraq, a country one fourth the size of Iran. Look through your family and friends and count how many will be drafted to fight in a war Romney won't send his children into.

Some of your loved ones won't come back from Iran; some will come back shattered; some will come back and fit right back into life here. But in the end, it will be a war that was lusted after by a rich few, that was not necessary, that was not fought by the ones who wanted it so bad, and a war that ruined innocent lives at home and around the world.

The choice between Romney and Obama is a choice to find an excuse for war with Iran or to find an end to another war. Vote in Romney and an excuse to invade Iran will appear someday soon. Just like it did with the Gulf of Tonkin and Vietnam. And the people who voted for Romney will look at the story in the media and say "Well, I didn't see that coming but we have to go into Iran now."

Well, consider yourselves warned. You want slaughter? Romney will give it to you and yours and countless innocents.


Romney is a two faced asshole. We really do not know if he actually does support a war with Iran or if he is just playing to his base to get votes.
 
2012-10-04 10:24:07 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.


Apparently Mitt looked "at ease", "confident", and "fluent in all things Obama" last night.

media.theweek.com
Here he is about to *CONFIDENTLY* shoot his eye lasers as Jim Lehrer.

assets.nydailynews.com
And here's Mitt showing how EASY it would be to smother big bird with a pillow.

i2.cdn.turner.com
This is Mitt displaying his Obama-fluency by demonstrating how wide he'd have to open his mouth to swallow the president's dong.
 
2012-10-04 10:24:10 AM  
Sounds like Obama was the statesman and maintained his stance of civility and cooperation with Republicans...f*ckin' dumbass.
 
2012-10-04 10:24:11 AM  

Lost Thought 00: JerseyTim: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

I don't think it's about that. Mitt base is now newly energized. There were stories about donors getting cold feet and now they'll come back aboard again. This election isn't going to be about undecideds. It's going to be about turnout. Mitt went a long way last night to helping his election day turnout.

Similarly, I'll bet Obama's donations have completely dried up. He's going to have to spend valuable campaign time doing fundraisers instead


This could be the biggest impact that this debate has. Mitt very well may get a huge influx of cash, Obama may or may not lose money but he didn't do himself any favors. Watch Ohio polls, that's the only state that's polling well outside the margin of error. If it moves more than a few points than we can be pretty sure that the debate had an impact.
 
2012-10-04 10:24:18 AM  

markie_farkie: 'Winning' the Talking Out Your Ass and Disavowing Everything Spoken on the Campaign Trail categories isn't 'Winning'.

What everyone saw was a glimpse of classic Bain Mitt... The oily, Say Anything guy who relies on his overinflated self-worth and utter lack of integrity to close a deal.


I was truly curious as to how the "left-wingers" viewed the debate. I thought Romney was much more composed, better prepared and basically thought that Obama didn't even show up. I certainly don't, however, think you got a "Bain Mitt".

I think what Romney was throwing out was more his actual, honest to god thoughts on things, and less the political party line that he's been forced to follow for nearly the entirety of the nomination process. It was more "Massachusetts Mitt" and less right-wing derp.

If I were going to base my vote solely on this debate, Romney would have gotten it yesterday. Romney did a decent job in MA, working with a majority of Dems that are not only Dems, but true "Massachusetts Democrats". He certainly has better credentials for dealing with compromise than Obama has mustered over the past 4 years, regardless of where the disagreements come from.

Personally, I saw points from Romney that I had been hoping to see throughout his campaign. Sure he's rich. Sure he sometimes stumbles over himself trying to relate to "the little guy", but he's got ideas, hes' got compassion, and he's not the "RoboMitt" that a vast majority here seem to write him off as.

I was leaning heavily towards voting for Johnson in the election... not so sure now. Obama certainly didn't do himself justice last night... he seemed out of sorts. He'll have to do better than that if he wants to convince me, at least, that he can get things done over the next 4 years.

Just my $0.02... shred it how you will.
 
2012-10-04 10:24:27 AM  

James!: Romney is also going to get brutalized in the media over the next week for the lying.


good one
 
2012-10-04 10:24:38 AM  
He "won" in terms of dominating the discussion through bullying the moderator. But he lied out of his a$$ to do it.

Don't expect "Professor Obama" next debate. Same thing happened in 2008...he foolishly gave his opponent the benefit of the doubt. He won't make that mistake again.
 
2012-10-04 10:24:40 AM  

JerseyTim: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

I don't think it's about that. Mitt base is now newly energized. There were stories about donors getting cold feet and now they'll come back aboard again. This election isn't going to be about undecideds. It's going to be about turnout. Mitt went a long way last night to helping his election day turnout.


I gotta slightly disagree with you there, the big money donors who need to bank on a winner will be less reluctant to whip out the check books now (not that that has been a problem for Romney) but last night he sounded a lot like a the Moderate Republican he pretended to be in Mass (the same RINO the base accused him of being early in the primary) and the fact he returned to those seemingly moderate talking points isn't going to go over well with the base.

Not that it proves anything, but I've been listening to a few of the folks at my work talk about it (the ones who actually watched the debates) and the middle of the road folks thought both Obama and Romney sounded exactly the same, with little to know difference between them, and the two PaulTard/TeaTards in my department are both fuming over the fact Romney said business needed to be regulated 5 times last night.
 
2012-10-04 10:24:54 AM  
when romney said, "of course, i prefer private insurance," i wanted obama to retort, "well, you can afford it; most americans can't." that would've been a great "zinger." but he left it alone. why?
 
2012-10-04 10:24:56 AM  

had98c: It's pretty straightforward. Victory basically comes from being the Underdog

 
2012-10-04 10:25:03 AM  

threedingers: Also known as the Gish Gallop.


TheMoreYouKnow.jpg.

/thanks!
 
2012-10-04 10:25:17 AM  
Ron Pau

Headso: globalwarmingpraiser: True swing voters are personality people. Romney looked like a decisive and powerful man. Considering war with Iran is coming that is likely a selling point.

Maybe better to just elect the people that aren't going to rush into war with Iran instead...


Ron Paul is out and no third party will win. Lets enjoy the end of the America of freedom.
 
2012-10-04 10:25:21 AM  
I couldn't help but think that event Mitt's promises to his base are empty.

1. He won't repeal Obamacare.
2. He won't repeal DADT.
3. He won't repeal Dodd-Frank.
4. He can't do a damn thing about abortion.

He just wants to win. What he does once he gets there is a mystery. Probably just push for lower taxes for the job creators because people have bought into the idea that you can create labor through supply and not demand.
 
2012-10-04 10:25:30 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.

He just controlled the conversation the most. Always got the last word. Steamrolled the moderator.

So just aggression? That's what wins? Content be damned I guess. And here I thought it was a debate.


This is America. A huge part of the population here does not care about content. They don't understand content. They don't want content. That's half the reason we're as skizza-boned as we are now.
 
2012-10-04 10:25:35 AM  
There are a lot of smart Farkers here, but am I the only one who realizes that they are all part of the same ruling-class elite team, and that this is all just a big dog and pony show they are orchestrating? The only difference between U.S.A. and Korea North is that the people at the top in the U.S.A. took the Nazis' ideas about using mass media to control their peasants to heart, and are much better at fooling their people. How many times will your government attack and kill your own citizens before you wake up, sheeple? I mean seriously... the Haymarket Affair, Tuskeegee, MK Ultra, NAMBLA, 9/11, and now this Son of Bapp guy. And you will all just keep financing it by letting them steal from your paychecks everyday. How many times does a major communications mechanism get taken down in the middle of a Presidential debate the day after they try to tell you that your wave-blocking cranial apparatus is useless? Reddit didn't crash, but then again the Canadians have real freedom. Freedom from socialist health care, and they will be the true heroes who fight the Zionist controllers while you are still taking wafers at temple. For shame.
 
2012-10-04 10:25:39 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.

He just controlled the conversation the most. Always got the last word. Steamrolled the moderator.

So just aggression? That's what wins? Content be damned I guess. And here I thought it was a debate.


"Winning" here is purely perception.
 
2012-10-04 10:25:54 AM  
Obama didn't have a chance. He can't run on his record, since his record is abysmal. He can't run on his promises of the future, since he already did that once, and he hasn't delivered.

He simply didn't know what to do yesterday. Every time he made a new promise the question everyone asked themselves, was, well Mr President, why haven't you already done that? You've had four years. And what exactly have you done?

Romney completely dominated the stage. Romney can run on his record of being a job creator both as a businessman and as a governor.

Obama just can't win as an incumbent. i understand why he won in 08, he had good stage presence and had great speechwriters and offered "hope and change". But he simply hasn't delivered on his promises. It will not work this time.

This time it's Romney that is offering change.
 
2012-10-04 10:26:00 AM  

Hack Patooey: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage.

I don't think that anyone on the Obama campaign ever seriously contemplated that Romney would just ignore reality and substitute his own delusions.

That's what I told SWMBO this morning. I think Obama was blindsided by Romney just talking out his ass like what he was saying was both accurate and what he's been saying all along, and wasn't prepared for it. I think Obama was rattled.


Watching it, there were several times when Obama had that "Did he just say THAT?" look on his face.

I also think that Obama is kind of "trapped" a little in that he can't come out and say, "Then stop electing dumb ass republicans to congress who's only motive is to see me be a 1 term president."
Sadly, Obama had to stand there and take responsibility for some of the problems he has been dealing with becuase the republicans have already painted him as someone who won't take responsibility.

However, the campaign, and other democrats can do that starting today.

Also, I Obama was counting on Romney acting more crazy, and was just hoping to get Romney to go on the record with some things he can use against him later.

He did that.
 
2012-10-04 10:26:09 AM  
It's cool, Obama lost the Eye of the Tiger. He just needs to train with Apollo Creed and get it back:

whatever-dude.com
 
2012-10-04 10:26:25 AM  

James!: Romney is also going to get brutalized in the media over the next week for the lying.


Riiiiiiiight, the same way he's been battered for cheating on his taxes for 10+ years, dealing with shady officials and possible bribery in the Utahlympics, and his position in a pyramid scheme/cult passing itself off as a legitimate faith.

I think David Gregory will more likely fetch Mitt his favorite slippers and pipe the next time he interviews him.
 
2012-10-04 10:26:38 AM  

indylaw: Nothing says dependable like an online poll on America's dumbest news networkTM


CNN is no longer the dumbest news network.

Glenn Beck launched "The Blaze" channel. All arguments from now on are invalid.
 
2012-10-04 10:26:40 AM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Don't expect "Professor Obama" next debate. Same thing happened in 2008...he foolishly gave his opponent the benefit of the doubt. He won't make that mistake again.



If he wants to learn how to handle bullshiat bafflers, he should spend some time on the Fark politics tab.

/Hands on experience
 
2012-10-04 10:27:15 AM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: He "won" in terms of dominating the discussion through bullying the moderator. But he lied out of his a$$ to do it.

Don't expect "Professor Obama" next debate. Same thing happened in 2008...he foolishly gave his opponent the benefit of the doubt. He won't make that mistake again.


The next debate is townhall format. It is even harder to not come across as an asshole for pointing out lies when it is questions asked by attendees.
 
2012-10-04 10:27:57 AM  
Maybe Obama has been running against Bush for so long he was stunned into ineffectiveness when some other guy showed up for the debate.
 
2012-10-04 10:28:03 AM  
As predicted: Romney didn't throw up on his shoes. Therefore, he "won".
 
2012-10-04 10:28:03 AM  

Bag of Hammers: I gotta slightly disagree with you there, the big money donors who need to bank on a winner will be less reluctant to whip out the check books now (not that that has been a problem for Romney) but last night he sounded a lot like a the Moderate Republican he pretended to be in Mass (the same RINO the base accused him of being early in the primary) and the fact he returned to those seemingly moderate talking points isn't going to go over well with the base.


I think a lot of Romney's support is just anti-Obama sentiment. Remember that day when he gave that speech in front of the Solyndra factory while his staffers shouted down Axelrod press conference? The ant-Obama people were thrilled. They were excited to see Romney attacking Obama. I think people like Sheldon Adelson really don't care about Romney, they just want Obama out.
 
2012-10-04 10:28:30 AM  

EyeballKid: James!: Romney is also going to get brutalized in the media over the next week for the lying.

Riiiiiiiight, the same way he's been battered for cheating on his taxes for 10+ years, dealing with shady officials and possible bribery in the Utahlympics, and his position in a pyramid scheme/cult passing itself off as a legitimate faith.

I think David Gregory will more likely fetch Mitt his favorite slippers and pipe the next time he interviews him.



More like how Ryan got run through the ringer after his convention speech. 
 
2012-10-04 10:28:38 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: BooBoo23:


I don't think that anyone on the Obama campaign ever seriously contemplated that Romney wouldn't just ignore reality and substitute his own delusions.
 
2012-10-04 10:28:39 AM  
I guess I can't accuse the media of having a Liberal bias today.
 
2012-10-04 10:29:07 AM  

FlashHarry: when romney said, "of course, i prefer private insurance," i wanted obama to retort, "well, you can afford it; most americans can't." that would've been a great "zinger." but he left it alone. why?


It was obvious that Obama didn't want a street fight. Simplist explanation is that he doesn't need to and is already thinking of starting his 2nd term on a positive foot with the opposition. However, I agree that it seemed weird.
 
2012-10-04 10:29:19 AM  

globalwarmingpraiser: Ron PauHeadso: globalwarmingpraiser: True swing voters are personality people. Romney looked like a decisive and powerful man. Considering war with Iran is coming that is likely a selling point.

Maybe better to just elect the people that aren't going to rush into war with Iran instead...

Ron Paul is out and no third party will win. Lets enjoy the end of the America of freedom.


Usually both sides are bad people have never bothered looking at the roll call votes for the Iraq war so your response isn't surprising.
 
2012-10-04 10:29:33 AM  

evoke:
Obama just can't win as an incumbent. i understand why he won in 08, he had good stage presence and had great speechwriters and offered "hope and change". But he simply hasn't delivered on his promises. It will not work this time.

This time it's Romney that is offering change.


If you really think that you can make some great money on Intrade. Romney winning the presidency is paying out at 3 to 1. You can triple your money in only a few months!
 
2012-10-04 10:29:46 AM  
I thought Obama looked tired.

Don't you think he looked tired?
 
2012-10-04 10:30:01 AM  
Mitt wasn't very truthful, and was often very vague.

that said, he did much better than I was expecting and Obama did much worse...and Leher got steamrolled.

show up better prepared next time Obama, Mitt apparently isn't always a gaffing buffoon.


...still want to know how the RW is spinning Mitt's line about 'not dropping the preexisting condition requirement', since Mitt in fact IS planning to drop that.

simply saying the states should write their own laws on that isn't going to keep people from being dropped and staying dropped.
 
2012-10-04 10:30:10 AM  

soy_bomb: nyseattitude: [img1.fark.net image 54x11]Romney vows public execution of Big Bird, concentration camp for Snuffaluffagus

How about Big Bird paying his own bills with his merchandising income.


Does the merchandising income go towards the Sesame Street budget?

How much is the budget vs. the merchandising income?

I rate this comment "Do more research"
 
2012-10-04 10:30:15 AM  

MindStalker: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: BooBoo23:

I don't think that anyone on the Obama campaign ever seriously contemplated that Romney wouldn't just ignore reality and substitute his own delusions.


So they haven't been paying attention for the past 16 months?
 
2012-10-04 10:30:32 AM  
Romney had three problems going into this election. 1) He wasn't likeable. 2) He reverses course on policy and tailors his attitudes towards the way the wind blows (the etch-a-sketch problem) and 3) He has no hard policies that can be evaluated for their worth.

He made a great stride toward fixing the first issue, but took very real steps backward on problems 2 and 3. He walked back on policy he had been supporting for over a year, and his policy presentation consisted of "repeal a dozen laws and statutes, cut taxes, and magic will fill the gap in needed regulation and budget deficit problems". His economic policy appears to be the equivalent of holding up a gallon of bottled water and claiming he's solved African drought. He's talking about saving pennies to pay for gaps measured in astronomical scales.

On the plus side, he showed he can look the part, actually talk to people about issues, and not sound like an automaton. He showed passion and interest. He talked about people and appeared to show it wasn't about winning a prize, it's about governing a nation. But that's all window dressing if he can't coherently state and support a path forward that is measurable.
 
2012-10-04 10:30:44 AM  
FOR THE DISCOURAGED LIBS

Newsweek's post-debate poll showed 61 percent of respondents said Kerry won, 19 percent said Bush won and 16 percent said they were undecided.

The poll also found 56 percent said Kerry did better than expected in the debate while 11 percent said the same for Bush.

Newsweek's post-convention poll had Bush leading among registered voters 54 percent to 43 percent. Its post-debate poll had 47 percent choosing Kerry-Edwards, and 45 percent for Bush-Cheney. Two percent said they would vote for Ralph Nader and his running mate, Peter Camejo.
 
2012-10-04 10:30:47 AM  

LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.

He just controlled the conversation the most. Always got the last word. Steamrolled the moderator.

So just aggression? That's what wins? Content be damned I guess. And here I thought it was a debate.

This is America. A huge part of the population here does not care about content. They don't understand content. They don't want content. That's half the reason we're as skizza-boned as we are now.


Well fark it. Not that I had high hopes, but it would be nice to learn something.

I guess I'll be playing Borderlands during the next debate.

Handsome Jack 2012
 
2012-10-04 10:30:51 AM  

evoke: Obama didn't have a chance. He can't run on his record, since his record is abysmal.


lolwut?

in just four years after an economic cataclysm in which the world lost nearly half its wealth, we've had 30-straight months of private sector job growth, a doubling of the dow, detroit saved, and new tough regulations governing wall st. add to that bin laden dead, qadaffi dead, mubarak gone, DADT gone and the first true healthcare reform in half a century.... and all with the GOP unified against him?

i'd say his record is pretty farking great, all things considered.
 
2012-10-04 10:32:05 AM  
As big a beating of Obama this is being made out to be, the polls won't change. People that care already made up their mind. People that don't care have no idea it even happened.
 
2012-10-04 10:32:34 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.

He just controlled the conversation the most. Always got the last word. Steamrolled the moderator.

So just aggression? That's what wins? Content be damned I guess. And here I thought it was a debate.

This is America. A huge part of the population here does not care about content. They don't understand content. They don't want content. That's half the reason we're as skizza-boned as we are now.

Well fark it. Not that I had high hopes, but it would be nice to learn something.

I guess I'll be playing Borderlands during the next debate.

Handsome Jack 2012


I don't know where you are in the game, but if Mitt Romney kills Obama's dog I'll have a pretty good idea of who's who.
 
2012-10-04 10:33:21 AM  
We all set expectations so high for Obama and low for Romney that yes Romney won last night
 
2012-10-04 10:33:29 AM  
No knockout blows were scored. There were no "There you go again" lines or NIxon's flopsweat that will redefine either campaign. The challenger will get a bump in the polls, but that's standard for a first debate. The expectations will shift completely in the second debate, and most likely, Obama will be seen as doing better, while Romney will be seen as doing well, but not as well as expected.

The polls will now move a few points in favor of Romney, but not enough to put him back in the race. The big winner is the media, who gets to show their online poll results and tightening national polls to pretend the race is still close, but it isn't. Romney needs to swing Ohio and Florida by 11 and 10 points, respectively, and I seriously doubt he's done that.
 
2012-10-04 10:33:43 AM  
I'm pretty hard-left liberal, will still be voting for Obama in November, and admit that Romney did better than I expected, was significantly more aggressive, and Obama seemed a lot more low-key.

I see this as giving Mitt a decent bump in the polls (perhaps a 3% swing), perhaps tightening up a few of the swing states, but with Obama recovering in the other debates after seeing Moderate Mitt come out after months of Conservative Mitt.

If we have a repeat in debates #2 and #3, and economic factors don't change significantly, it could actually make this race a horse race instead of the blowout it was looking to be.

Maybe this will motivate the base on the left out of the false sense of security, who knows.
 
2012-10-04 10:33:56 AM  
As much as Mitt was talking out of his bunghole, Obama could simply have began each of his responses with "That is a lie," then go on to answer. The fact checker would probably find Obama wrong once or twice.

Mitt "Nathan Thurm" Rmoney?

/
 
2012-10-04 10:34:04 AM  
Romney did a brilliant job of winning the low expectations game heading into the debate. Remaining upright would have been a victory.

Now, the vice presidential debate will be a different story. Most people expect Ryan to turn Old Joe into a seal with a beach ball.
 
2012-10-04 10:34:08 AM  

I_C_Weener: As big a beating of Obama this is being made out to be, the polls won't change. People that care already made up their mind. People that don't care have no idea it even happened.


I think it could change the turnout. Republicans who maybe didn't like Romney and might have stayed home, maybe now they could get energized and would actually vote. Maybe, I don't know.
 
2012-10-04 10:34:50 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: a poll that over samples democrats


That smells an awful lot like it came out of your brain. Citation needed.
 
2012-10-04 10:35:08 AM  

imontheinternet: No knockout blows were scored. There were no "There you go again" lines or NIxon's flopsweat that will redefine either campaign. The challenger will get a bump in the polls, but that's standard for a first debate. The expectations will shift completely in the second debate, and most likely, Obama will be seen as doing better, while Romney will be seen as doing well, but not as well as expected.

The polls will now move a few points in favor of Romney, but not enough to put him back in the race. The big winner is the media, who gets to show their online poll results and tightening national polls to pretend the race is still close, but it isn't. Romney needs to swing Ohio and Florida by 11 and 10 points, respectively, and I seriously doubt he's done that.


See, this guy gets it. All going according to script.
 
2012-10-04 10:35:24 AM  
When is the last time winning a debate won you the presidency? Rmoney supporters may want to look that up.
 
2012-10-04 10:35:48 AM  
What I gathered from Romney is that he plans on introducing unspecified revenue neutral tax reforms, mixed with an increased military budget, no cuts to anything except for PBS, and somehow reducing the deficit. I've seen it done in several infomercials, so it must not be bullshiat.
 
2012-10-04 10:36:13 AM  

vernonFL: I_C_Weener: As big a beating of Obama this is being made out to be, the polls won't change. People that care already made up their mind. People that don't care have no idea it even happened.

I think it could change the turnout. Republicans who maybe didn't like Romney and might have stayed home, maybe now they could get energized and would actually vote. Maybe, I don't know.


true - although romney threw a lot of hardcore rightist GOP dogma under the bus. he sounded quite "moderate" on taxes and healthcare. of course he was lying, but still - isn't that going to piss off the base?
 
2012-10-04 10:36:35 AM  

JerseyTim: Obama debated like a guy who doesn't care if he gets reelected.


This....

Honestly can you blame him? He's spent the last 4 years being shiat on every day of his life. It's only been 4 years and Bush's approval rates are already way up again, no one cares to shiat on him anymore. He can retire, write books, not worry about wars, play golf and raise money for hurricane relief funds.
 
2012-10-04 10:36:46 AM  

EighthDay: Maybe this will motivate the base on the left out of the false sense of security, who knows.


Why not? That debate showed about as much fight as Obama has shown during his term in office selling out fighting for his base. I don't think it's false sense of security keeping the left away, but rather a sense of "What does it matter if Republican policies are the only ones enacted, anyway?"
 
2012-10-04 10:37:07 AM  

FlashHarry: CNN's internals (pdf)

if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50. hardly obama-friendly in the first place.


It shows Romney with a sizable advantage in "favorability" before the debate. That's very odd and contradicts most polls.

Not that I'm saying Obama won, but that's odd.
 
2012-10-04 10:37:07 AM  
The funny thing is that Romney just stole a bunch of things Obama wants to do and applied it to himself. He just said he would go about it differently than Obama would. The even funnier thing is that Romney supporters are eating it up, saying he won the debate by basically ignoring what he's said in the past and making up new facts about himself, as well as continuing his vague description of things he would do. Romney "won" by spouting off as much bullshiat in the little time he had as humanly possible. You are dumb if you think Romney had any substance in his debate, and you should bring a handler with you if you ever go shopping for used cars in the future.

But Obama lost by not making more statements like the one that was to the effect of: "For the past 18 months you were saying X, but now, 5 weeks from the election, you're saying Y." He had a lot of opportunities to call Romney out on his BS and only took a few of them, and he could have done it without appearing to be angry.

The next two Presidential debates will include foreign policy. I think those will be hilarious. If you think Republicans have shaky ground on domestic policy, then their foreign policy is a sinkhole.
 
2012-10-04 10:37:25 AM  

Headso: globalwarmingpraiser: Ron PauHeadso: globalwarmingpraiser: True swing voters are personality people. Romney looked like a decisive and powerful man. Considering war with Iran is coming that is likely a selling point.

Maybe better to just elect the people that aren't going to rush into war with Iran instead...

Ron Paul is out and no third party will win. Lets enjoy the end of the America of freedom.

Usually both sides are bad people have never bothered looking at the roll call votes for the Iraq war so your response isn't surprising.

War with Iran is coming. It is a likely to be less bloody under Obama. But it is coming. We seem to want perpetual war.
 
2012-10-04 10:37:59 AM  
I know everyone thinks Obama plays the "long game" and all that, but it might have been nice if he'd actually attempted to stem the astounding flood of used-car salesmanship coming from Romney last night.

Rope-a-dope, eh? Well, let's hope that's the game plan here. I certainly didn't see it.
 
2012-10-04 10:38:07 AM  
A lot of Republicans were kind of let down when Romney got the nomination, no doubt about it. He hasn't exactly shined since then, either. But yesterday he was on fire. Obama got steamrolled and this will energize the base.

Be afraid libs!
 
2012-10-04 10:38:08 AM  

James!: Romney is also going to get brutalized in the media over the next week for the lying.


Oh my god that is so cute
 
2012-10-04 10:38:15 AM  

digistil: tenpoundsofcheese: a poll that over samples democrats

That smells an awful lot like it came out of your brain. Citation needed.


What, You expect him to post the talking points email he got in his cube today?


/please excuse me if you shill from home and not a cube farm tpoc.
 
2012-10-04 10:38:35 AM  
Curious if Obama really had a bad night or if this is part of a larger strategy.. These political races are just a constant game of small ball though so I don't see why Obama would ever give up yardage like that so I'd lean toward he had a bad night and Romney had a good one.
 
2012-10-04 10:38:48 AM  

vernonFL: Romney "won" because he seemed like a normal human


notsureifserious.jpg
 
2012-10-04 10:39:35 AM  

CPennypacker: Tell me how that is the case if lying makes you lose.


Psst: it's not a good thing that lying helps you win.
 
2012-10-04 10:39:37 AM  

LasersHurt: This is America. A huge part of the population here does not care about content. They don't understand content. They don't want content. That's half the reason we're as skizza-boned as we are now


But most of them can understand that 20% of 25 = 5, no matter how many zeros follow. That Obama did not drive that home last night and let Romney slink away from explaining in any detail, the 20% across the board cut in rates that he's been promising for almost two years was one of the biggest failures in the history of presidential debates. And I don't think that's an overstatement.
 
2012-10-04 10:39:55 AM  
So, this CNN poll everyone is talking about? This is the sampling data for the poll:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/10/03/top12.pdf

Some things to consider, this poll only went out to:

-Voters in the south (No other regions of the US were sampled)
-Voters over 50 (no voters under age 50 participated)
-Voters that were white (no minorities of any kind participated)
-Voters that Attended College (No non-college participants recorded)


This poll is insanely skewed. You can see the data for yourself on page 15 of the pdf.

I personally think Romney did better in the debate, but this sort of polling is grossly misleading and shameful.
 
2012-10-04 10:40:35 AM  

I_C_Weener: As big a beating of Obama this is being made out to be, the polls won't change. People that care already made up their mind. People that don't care have no idea it even happened.


I don't agree. Low info voters who care enough to watch saw two men say a bunch of stuff about things with numbers. Romney did it with uber confidence and walked all over the moderator. Obama was calm, low key and had a few stutters and stumbles. All low info voters saw was the confidence levels and I think that will have an impact on the few undecided low info voters out there.
 
2012-10-04 10:40:40 AM  

lawboy87: Now, let's see if the media actually does its job and calls out Romney over the next week on all the lies he put out there during the debates.


I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
2012-10-04 10:40:47 AM  

Headso: Curious if Obama really had a bad night or if this is part of a larger strategy.. These political races are just a constant game of small ball though so I don't see why Obama would ever give up yardage like that so I'd lean toward he had a bad night and Romney had a good one.


Or it could have been a slam dunk right through the pipes if Obama had only ...

Pick a sport, sport.
 
2012-10-04 10:40:52 AM  
Just had a conversation with my legal assistant concerning the debate which she did not watch.

I learned that you can be a legal assistant and NOT know what Romneycare is. "Yeah, I know he had some health program of something, but I don't know how that effects anything . . ."

Fark, meet your undecideds.
 
2012-10-04 10:40:54 AM  

Hack Patooey: I think Obama was blindsided by Romney just talking out his ass like what he was saying was both accurate and what he's been saying all along, and wasn't prepared for it.


Then Obama hasn't been watching the news, because that's all Romney HAS been doing.
 
2012-10-04 10:40:56 AM  

Cletus C.: Maybe Obama has been running against Bush for so long he was stunned into ineffectiveness when some other guy showed up for the debate.


Obama was baffled that he actually had to defend his policies.
 
2012-10-04 10:41:10 AM  

James!: Romney is also going to get brutalized in the media over the next week for the lying.


It's cute how you have faith in humanity.
 
2012-10-04 10:41:18 AM  

James F. Campbell: CPennypacker: Tell me how that is the case if lying makes you lose.

Psst: it's not a good thing that lying helps you win.


No, it sucks donkey balls. Doesn't change the outcome though. You can legislate more from an elected post than from a high horse.
 
2012-10-04 10:41:31 AM  

JollyMagistrate: So, this CNN poll everyone is talking about? This is the sampling data for the poll:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/10/03/top12.pdf

Some things to consider, this poll only went out to:

-Voters in the south (No other regions of the US were sampled)
-Voters over 50 (no voters under age 50 participated)
-Voters that were white (no minorities of any kind participated)
-Voters that Attended College (No non-college participants recorded)

This poll is insanely skewed. You can see the data for yourself on page 15 of the pdf.

I personally think Romney did better in the debate, but this sort of polling is grossly misleading and shameful.


But it makes for exciting press!

:/
 
2012-10-04 10:42:37 AM  

unexplained bacon: that said, he did much better than I was expecting and Obama did much worse...and Leher got steamrolled.


There's a reason why moderators have no balls anymore. They are run by the Commission on Presidential Debates...which is a PRIVATE organization run by the Democrats and Republicans along with corporate interests. The moderators, in other words, are working for the parties.

The debates were run by the League of Women Voters until the late 1980s. Apparently, the two main parties hated the risk of a moderator keeping their horses in check.
 
2012-10-04 10:42:45 AM  

CPennypacker: You can legislate more from an elected post than from a high horse.


Bingo. This is why I *hope* that if Romney wins, he'll go back to his record as governor. But, that's an awful lot of hope... :/
 
2012-10-04 10:43:08 AM  
Personally, I thought Mitt was defensive. Both tried to hog as much of the time as they could, but Mitt was worse than Obama at saying, "No I'm going to keep talking so just shut up, Jim."

But debates are political theater and have no real bearing on anything.
 
2012-10-04 10:43:34 AM  
Just Proves Mitt Will Say Anything to Get Elected.
 
2012-10-04 10:43:44 AM  

Headso: Curious if Obama really had a bad night or if this is part of a larger strategy.. These political races are just a constant game of small ball though so I don't see why Obama would ever give up yardage like that so I'd lean toward he had a bad night and Romney had a good one.


it seems counterintuitive. but it's possible he was being meek in order to get romney to commit to a bunch of stuff they can nail him on in TV spots. and maybe he now has license to go after him hard in the final two debates. but, yeah, it seems odd.
 
2012-10-04 10:43:49 AM  

JollyMagistrate: So, this CNN poll everyone is talking about? This is the sampling data for the poll:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/10/03/top12.pdf

Some things to consider, this poll only went out to:

-Voters in the south (No other regions of the US were sampled)
-Voters over 50 (no voters under age 50 participated)
-Voters that were white (no minorities of any kind participated)
-Voters that Attended College (No non-college participants recorded)

This poll is insanely skewed. You can see the data for yourself on page 15 of the pdf.

I personally think Romney did better in the debate, but this sort of polling is grossly misleading and shameful.


CNN stands to benefit the most from a horse race, what with their holograms and giant screens. If it takes a lazy poll of 430 Americans to increase viewership, then so be it!
 
2012-10-04 10:44:11 AM  
Reposting what I wrote in the Lehrer thread.


Have no idea why people think Romney "won" the debate. He just repeated the same detail-free platitudes that have been the essence of his entire campaign.

-"My plan is to put people back to work."
-"I'm going to cut taxes, renew the Bush tax cuts, increase defense spending, increase Medicare spending, and solve the deficit at the same time - and I'm somehow going to make this work by eliminating some tax deductions and loopholes, but I'm not going to tell you which ones."
-"I'm going to repeal and replace Obamacare, but I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to replace it with. But trust me, I have a plan."
-"I'm going to repeal and replace Dodd-Frank, but I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to replace it with. But trust me, I have a plan."

How can you win a presidential debate in which you don't give any answers or details about what you actually intend to do as president? His one specific policy proposal that I saw (cut funding for PBS) was about as silly and unserious as you can get. Amateur hour.

As far as I'm concerned, last night's debate just confirmed that Romney is the empty suit with no real ideas that we've seen all along. But I guess because he bullied the moderator and managed not to put his foot in his mouth for the first time in weeks, he "won." Whatever.
 
2012-10-04 10:44:38 AM  

born_yesterday: James!: Romney is also going to get brutalized in the media over the next week for the lying.

It's cute how you have faith in humanity.



When you come down off the ledge later and can think rationally maybe you'll remember Paul Ryan being put through the ringer after the convention.
 
2012-10-04 10:44:57 AM  
First debate performance is always a reliable method to predict how the election will fall. Just ask President Mondale.
 
2012-10-04 10:45:28 AM  
All my Republican friends are sucking each others dicks relentlessly this morning.
 
2012-10-04 10:45:37 AM  

Doc Daneeka: Reposting what I wrote in the Lehrer thread.


Have no idea why people think Romney "won" the debate. He just repeated the same detail-free platitudes that have been the essence of his entire campaign.

-"My plan is to put people back to work."
-"I'm going to cut taxes, renew the Bush tax cuts, increase defense spending, increase Medicare spending, and solve the deficit at the same time - and I'm somehow going to make this work by eliminating some tax deductions and loopholes, but I'm not going to tell you which ones."
-"I'm going to repeal and replace Obamacare, but I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to replace it with. But trust me, I have a plan."
-"I'm going to repeal and replace Dodd-Frank, but I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to replace it with. But trust me, I have a plan."

How can you win a presidential debate in which you don't give any answers or details about what you actually intend to do as president? His one specific policy proposal that I saw (cut funding for PBS) was about as silly and unserious as you can get. Amateur hour.

As far as I'm concerned, last night's debate just confirmed that Romney is the empty suit with no real ideas that we've seen all along. But I guess because he bullied the moderator and managed not to put his foot in his mouth for the first time in weeks, he "won." Whatever.


Read my boobies.

Romney won not because of what he said, but because of how he said it.
 
2012-10-04 10:46:06 AM  
I think one thing Obama HAS to do is when he's taking notes, not look down like he's been caught doing something wrong and looking chastised. That probably did more for Romney than anything Romney actually said.
 
2012-10-04 10:46:12 AM  
The best part about Romney "winning" the debate is all the new FARK trolls that have suddenly sprouted just enough balls to comment anonymously on the internet.

You go get 'em, bootstraps!
 
2012-10-04 10:46:20 AM  

markie_farkie: 'Winning' the Talking Out Your Ass and Disavowing Everything Spoken on the Campaign Trail categories isn't 'Winning'.


Yes, it is.

Elections are decided by politics, not policies.

Jackson Herring: James!: Romney is also going to get brutalized in the media over the next week for the lying.

Oh my god that is so cute


He's going to be brutalized by MAYBE two shows on Comedy Central and possibly a Saturday night autism festival.

FlashHarry: true - although romney threw a lot of hardcore rightist GOP dogma under the bus. he sounded quite "moderate" on taxes and healthcare. of course he was lying, but still - isn't that going to piss off the base?


This is the ultimate problem with really judging how Romney did.

He 'won' in the sense that he controlled the debate, said a lot of shiat that wasn't directly refuted, and was generally an unchecked asshole. Assertiveness is considered equivalent to correctness by many, many people. But he's incredibly off balance now, as he's made some farking ridiculous statements. The math alone is mind boggling: he won't increase any revenues, won't lower taxes on the rich, and offers no real method of explaining how he's going to fund his $5 trillion tax cut other than "cut PBS" and "the economy will grow".
 
2012-10-04 10:46:20 AM  

shifty lookin bleeder: I thought Obama looked tired.

Don't you think he looked tired?


Kind of reminded me of the line from the old Captain Hook song: "I saw Polly in a porny with a pony and the pony looked a little bored".
 
2012-10-04 10:46:42 AM  

Doc Daneeka: Reposting what I wrote in the Lehrer thread.


Have no idea why people think Romney "won" the debate. He just repeated the same detail-free platitudes that have been the essence of his entire campaign.

-"My plan is to put people back to work."
-"I'm going to cut taxes, renew the Bush tax cuts, increase defense spending, increase Medicare spending, and solve the deficit at the same time - and I'm somehow going to make this work by eliminating some tax deductions and loopholes, but I'm not going to tell you which ones."
-"I'm going to repeal and replace Obamacare, but I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to replace it with. But trust me, I have a plan."
-"I'm going to repeal and replace Dodd-Frank, but I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to replace it with. But trust me, I have a plan."

How can you win a presidential debate in which you don't give any answers or details about what you actually intend to do as president? His one specific policy proposal that I saw (cut funding for PBS) was about as silly and unserious as you can get. Amateur hour.

As far as I'm concerned, last night's debate just confirmed that Romney is the empty suit with no real ideas that we've seen all along. But I guess because he bullied the moderator and managed not to put his foot in his mouth for the first time in weeks, he "won." Whatever.


Let the rage flow.
 
2012-10-04 10:46:56 AM  

Doc Daneeka: As far as I'm concerned, last night's debate just confirmed that Romney is the empty suit with no real ideas that we've seen all along. But I guess because he bullied the moderator and managed not to put his foot in his mouth for the first time in weeks, he "won." Whatever.


You're obviously not a "low-information" voter. I'm assuming those people are one step removed from chimpanzees so seeing the right primate posturing and chest-beating in their candidates is a real consideration for them.
 
kab
2012-10-04 10:47:13 AM  

JerseyTim: Obama debated like a guy who doesn't care if he gets reelected.


That's as accurate a description as I've seen, really.
 
2012-10-04 10:47:50 AM  

FlashHarry: Headso: Curious if Obama really had a bad night or if this is part of a larger strategy.. These political races are just a constant game of small ball though so I don't see why Obama would ever give up yardage like that so I'd lean toward he had a bad night and Romney had a good one.

it seems counterintuitive. but it's possible he was being meek in order to get romney to commit to a bunch of stuff they can nail him on in TV spots. and maybe he now has license to go after him hard in the final two debates. but, yeah, it seems odd.


Obama did the same thing in 2008.

Round 2 will be brutal for Romney.
 
2012-10-04 10:48:04 AM  

shifty lookin bleeder: I thought Obama looked tired.

Don't you think he looked tired?


He did look tired. And aged by the presidency. Who knows what has been occupy his time recently. I an guessing it was not a much preparation for the debates as he would have liked.
 
2012-10-04 10:48:04 AM  

Tenga: All my Republican friends are sucking each others dicks relentlessly this morning.


literally or figuratively? i mean, they are republicans....
 
2012-10-04 10:48:07 AM  

Cletus C.: Obama didn't seem to give a fark so why should I?


That about sums up the last several weeks.
 
2012-10-04 10:48:23 AM  

James!: Did anyone change their vote?


Nope - I though Romney came across as aggressive, but in the form of an aggressive weasel, not as a strong leader. I suppose I'm in the minority on performance in the debate itself, but even if he won that battle, once the fact checks come in, or Obama's ad team has a chance to run some juxtaposing what Mitt said last night with lots of stuff he's said in the last year, I think he loses the war.

/Five weeks before the election is a little late to pivot to the center Governor
 
2012-10-04 10:48:24 AM  

JerseyTim:
I think people like Sheldon Adelson really don't care about Romney, they just want Obama out the US to attack Iran for Israel and for the DOJ to stop instigating his shady business dealings with China and Macau..


FTFY
 
2012-10-04 10:48:28 AM  
Yep, Romney lied is ass off and Obama didn't hold him accountable. Basically Mitt got away with lying about his entire tax policy and the details about his proposed replacement of ObamaCare. In addition he got away with lying about ObamaCare.

Obama basically has a lead and he seems like he just wants to cruise without risking any mistakes.
 
2012-10-04 10:48:46 AM  

James!: When you come down off the ledge later and can think rationally maybe you'll remember Paul Ryan being put through the ringer after the convention.


OK, before anything else, can we clear something up?

THIS:

www.wringerhand.com
is a WRINGER


THIS:

www.bonnevilleclothingco.com
is a RINGER

You think Paul Ryan went through the former, but I feel what he went through from the press was more like the latter. Just saying, you've been using this language since you were 2 or 3, right? Act like it.
 
2012-10-04 10:49:23 AM  
No one lost or won the debate. In any debate against an incumbent all the challenger has to do is appear equal to the incumbent in order for it to be a success. The real issue here is what did each of the candidates say? Romney gave a Supply Side economy argument, that rich people need more breaks to help poor people, an argument that has lost him blue collar votes in PA, Ohio, Virginia, and Iowa. The President gave a solid argument that the economy is best served from the bottom up, an argument that has winning support in the states that matter since we elect by the electoral college(I don't give sh*t about direct elections, because it keeps larger states from swamping the vote.) The media reacts to debates like your Twitter feed did last night, filled with mindless partisanship and pre-planned reactions to pre-planned points that everyone knew were coming since May.
 
2012-10-04 10:49:24 AM  

kab: JerseyTim: Obama debated like a guy who doesn't care if he gets reelected.

That's as accurate a description as I've seen, really.


This
 
2012-10-04 10:50:10 AM  

EyeballKid: EighthDay: Maybe this will motivate the base on the left out of the false sense of security, who knows.

Why not? That debate showed about as much fight as Obama has shown during his term in office selling out fighting for his base. I don't think it's false sense of security keeping the left away, but rather a sense of "What does it matter if Republican policies are the only ones enacted, anyway?"


Oh please.

While I'm not happy with a lot of things Obama has done, claiming that all he's enacted are Republican policies is a poor strawman.

Let's see - you have the first sitting president to come out in support of gay marriage, even if he isn't pushing hard to get DOMA overturned, he's no longer having it enforced. You have a President who stumped to get the DADT law repealed - which it is. You have a president who cut taxes that favored the low and middle classes (payroll tax reduction favors those making under 100k, even if those above still benefit.) You have a president who tried to get Gitmo closed, but was blocked by Congress. You have a president who understands that government spending on infrastructure and R&D can result in new jobs and new economies. You have a president who understands that decreasing government spending during a recession is a great way to torpedo any chance of the economy recovering in the next decade.

Is Obama a liberal or progressive candidate? No way. Is he a far, far better option than Romney? Absolutely.

Obama is certainly more of a right-wing corporatist in his views than I'd like, but Romney is absolutely appalling and would be a nightmare as a president. Thankfully, I'm an educated white male who makes good money, so I'd likely benefit, but seeing the long-term devastation and what that would mean to my children? Yeah, I'd rather not suffer through that.
 
2012-10-04 10:51:43 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: I don't think that anyone on the Obama campaign ever seriously contemplated that Romney would just ignore reality and substitute his own delusions.


Yup. Obama's mistake was prepping his debate points based on Mitt's plan from last week. Mitt seemed to convey that everything he's been campaigning with for the last few months is out the window and this is his new, "real plan."

Obama only got one good shot at that strategy with his quip about Mitt's plan being "oops, nevermind."

That CNN poll could just as easily be the percentage of lies told in relation to the amount of words spoken.
 
2012-10-04 10:52:21 AM  
The long game...Obama set up Romney for a big fall at the next debate....

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-04 10:52:43 AM  

spiderpaz: Obama basically has a lead and he seems like he just wants to cruise without risking any mistakes.


That seems like the most logical reason for a bad showing, he seemed more concerned with making sure he wasn't saying anything that could be used as an attack in the future and by doing so let Romney get away with pushing his narrative.
 
2012-10-04 10:53:51 AM  

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: your wave-blocking cranial apparatus


I lolled
 
2012-10-04 10:53:52 AM  

Bag of Hammers: kab: JerseyTim: Obama debated like a guy who doesn't care if he gets reelected.

That's as accurate a description as I've seen, really.

This


Which is why I switched my vote. First rule for whenever I hire someone is they have to want the job. If Obama doesn't want to be President, then it's time to bring in someone new
 
2012-10-04 10:56:45 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Which is why I switched my vote. First rule for whenever I hire someone is they have to want the job. If Obama doesn't want to be President, then it's time to bring in someone new


What if there's only one other candidate for the position and he's a walking disaster? I'd agree with your point if you had a hiring pool, but in a presidential campaign the hiring pool is 1 person.

/Also, if you hire the guy who in the interview tells you he can increase profits while cutting operational costs by 20% and won't even tell you basic details about what aspects of the corporation he feels he can get those savings in... you're about to have a fun ride as the owner of the company.
 
2012-10-04 10:56:49 AM  

digistil: tenpoundsofcheese: a poll that over samples democrats

That smells an awful lot like it came out of your brain. Citation needed.


How about this one that came out before the debate?

1,005 polled: 36% Democrat, 29% Republican, 30% Independent

gillreport.com

Also, can you point out the "racists" in this poll?
 
2012-10-04 10:57:02 AM  

FlashHarry: CNN's internals (pdf)

if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50. hardly obama-friendly in the first place.


Wow, all southern urban and suburban. All self identified as Moderate or Conservative (NO self identified Liberals at all) sounds like a real slice of America.

/very thin slice
//Off a rather unsavory part
 
2012-10-04 10:57:06 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Bag of Hammers: kab: JerseyTim: Obama debated like a guy who doesn't care if he gets reelected.

That's as accurate a description as I've seen, really.

This

Which is why I switched my vote. First rule for whenever I hire someone is they have to want the job. If Obama doesn't want to be President, then it's time to bring in someone new


Your analysis of policy positions and how they will impact you is amazing.
 
2012-10-04 10:57:36 AM  

EyeballKid: James!: When you come down off the ledge later and can think rationally maybe you'll remember Paul Ryan being put through the ringer after the convention.

OK, before anything else, can we clear something up?

THIS:

[www.wringerhand.com image 554x319]
is a WRINGER


THIS:

[www.bonnevilleclothingco.com image 300x428]
is a RINGER

You think Paul Ryan went through the former, but I feel what he went through from the press was more like the latter. Just saying, you've been using this language since you were 2 or 3, right? Act like it.



Your a idiot.
 
2012-10-04 10:57:44 AM  

coyo: shifty lookin bleeder: I thought Obama looked tired.

Don't you think he looked tired?

He did look tired. And aged by the presidency. Who knows what has been occupy his time recently. I an guessing it was not a much preparation for the debates as he would have liked.


My guess would be the big step towards all out war between Syria and Turkey, that draws in practically every country region, that were taken yesterday.
 
2012-10-04 10:57:53 AM  
Without the teleprompter Obama is a bag of hot air. He looked like shiat last night. If Romeny was lying, then why didn't Obama call him on it? why did Obama stand there staring at his hands nodding like a little girl? If Obama was the smartest man in the room, why did he flub the entire debate? What a loser.

What cracks me up is all the libtards in Fark tripping overthemselve to make excuses and dismiss it.

Your emperor has no clothes.
 
2012-10-04 10:58:19 AM  
I can't wait to hear the continued Fox News reports about how polls don't matter and/or they're biased, just like they've reported previously.
 
2012-10-04 10:58:25 AM  
It was almost the exact same performance with Hillary. I have no clue what the shiat storm is about. I thought Romney was incomprehensible and spastic.
 
2012-10-04 10:58:32 AM  

FlashHarry: Tenga: All my Republican friends are sucking each others dicks relentlessly this morning.

literally or figuratively? i mean, they are republicans....


Figuratively, but lunchtime is coming up.
 
2012-10-04 10:59:08 AM  

Danger Mouse: Without the teleprompter Obama is a bag of hot air. He looked like shiat last night. If Romeny was lying, then why didn't Obama call him on it? why did Obama stand there staring at his hands nodding like a little girl? If Obama was the smartest man in the room, why did he flub the entire debate? What a loser.

What cracks me up is all the libtards in Fark tripping overthemselve to make excuses and dismiss it.

Your emperor has no clothes.


What I dislike: People who take themselves and or FARK a bit too seriously. Not you, of course.
 
2012-10-04 10:59:53 AM  

Tenga: FlashHarry: Tenga: All my Republican friends are sucking each others dicks relentlessly this morning.

literally or figuratively? i mean, they are republicans....

Figuratively, but lunchtime is coming up.


Do NOT go in there. Hold it till after work and stay away from the mens room.
 
2012-10-04 11:00:51 AM  

Doc Daneeka: Reposting what I wrote in the Lehrer thread.


Have no idea why people think Romney "won" the debate. He just repeated the same detail-free platitudes that have been the essence of his entire campaign.

-"My plan is to put people back to work."
-"I'm going to cut taxes, renew the Bush tax cuts, increase defense spending, increase Medicare spending, and solve the deficit at the same time - and I'm somehow going to make this work by eliminating some tax deductions and loopholes, but I'm not going to tell you which ones."
-"I'm going to repeal and replace Obamacare, but I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to replace it with. But trust me, I have a plan."
-"I'm going to repeal and replace Dodd-Frank, but I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to replace it with. But trust me, I have a plan."

How can you win a presidential debate in which you don't give any answers or details about what you actually intend to do as president? His one specific policy proposal that I saw (cut funding for PBS) was about as silly and unserious as you can get. Amateur hour.

As far as I'm concerned, last night's debate just confirmed that Romney is the empty suit with no real ideas that we've seen all along. But I guess because he bullied the moderator and managed not to put his foot in his mouth for the first time in weeks, he "won." Whatever.


Attack attack attack and still say nothing...
 
2012-10-04 11:01:20 AM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: digistil: tenpoundsofcheese: a poll that over samples democrats

That smells an awful lot like it came out of your brain. Citation needed.

How about this one that came out before the debate?

1,005 polled: 36% Democrat, 29% Republican, 30% Independent

[gillreport.com image 610x480]

Also, can you point out the "racists" in this poll?


That poll was conducted last week. Note the use of the dates Sept. 27-30. It's also a few points off the average for that time period.

The post-debate numbers will likely take a few days.
 
2012-10-04 11:02:00 AM  

theorellior: I know everyone thinks Obama plays the "long game" and all that, but it might have been nice if he'd actually attempted to stem the astounding flood of used-car salesmanship coming from Romney last night.

Rope-a-dope, eh? Well, let's hope that's the game plan here. I certainly didn't see it.


Not sure if there was a bigger Obama strategy. Doubt it but if there was, people "not seeing it" might be one of the critical success factors.
 
2012-10-04 11:02:01 AM  

Danger Mouse: Your emperor has no clothes.


Your Emperor is an empty suit.
 
2012-10-04 11:02:58 AM  

Danger Mouse: Without the teleprompter Obama is a bag of hot air. He looked like shiat last night. If Romeny was lying, then why didn't Obama call him on it? why did Obama stand there staring at his hands nodding like a little girl? If Obama was the smartest man in the room, why did he flub the entire debate? What a loser.

What cracks me up is all the libtards in Fark tripping overthemselve to make excuses and dismiss it.

Your emperor has no clothes.


Romney did better last night, but Obama didn't do horribly. The fact is with the current electoral projections all Obama has to do is not fark up and say some damning soundbite. He can lose all three debates with only moderate, mild responses and so long as he doesn't give advertisement fuel he will probably still maintain a lead even with the debate bump going to Romney.

If Romney is to win, he must bait Obama into saying something damning to grossly sway the election. At this point, the divide is so big that a major gaffe is really all that can save Romney's chances even with stellar performance.

Now, if Romney was as polished and coached at the start of his campaign as he was last night, we would be looking at a very different situation right now with this election.
 
2012-10-04 11:03:20 AM  

kronicfeld: So did John Kerry.


This and, so did Walter Mondale in 1984.

And we know how both turned out.

The problem for Romney is NOW he'll have to tamper down expectations; and with the second debate looming, Obama's going to show his teeth in a bad way towards Romney. Obama can't go over the top however, just be the smiling assassin that he was with McCain in 2008.
 
2012-10-04 11:04:20 AM  

JerseyTim: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

I don't think it's about that. Mitt base is now newly energized. There were stories about donors getting cold feet and now they'll come back aboard again. This election isn't going to be about undecideds. It's going to be about turnout. Mitt went a long way last night to helping his election day turnout.


In a way however, he might have done the same for Obama and his turnout.
 
2012-10-04 11:04:23 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.

He just controlled the conversation the most. Always got the last word. Steamrolled the moderator.

So just aggression? That's what wins? Content be damned I guess. And here I thought it was a debate.


Well, if Obama had done the same, the discussion would be about how he's a "thug" who wants to dictate the debate as well as your health care, yadda yadda yadda.
 
2012-10-04 11:04:27 AM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: digistil: tenpoundsofcheese: a poll that over samples democrats

That smells an awful lot like it came out of your brain. Citation needed.

How about this one that came out before the debate?

1,005 polled: 36% Democrat, 29% Republican, 30% Independent

[gillreport.com image 610x480]

Also, can you point out the "racists" in this poll?


Do you mean black people? Why would a black person ever vote Republican?
 
2012-10-04 11:06:28 AM  

CPennypacker: Kangaroo_Ralph: digistil: tenpoundsofcheese: a poll that over samples democrats

That smells an awful lot like it came out of your brain. Citation needed.

How about this one that came out before the debate?

1,005 polled: 36% Democrat, 29% Republican, 30% Independent

[gillreport.com image 610x480]

Also, can you point out the "racists" in this poll?

Do you mean black people? Why would a black person ever vote Republican?


Why would a woman? Masochism knows no boundaries.

Well, until you use the safeword.
 
2012-10-04 11:06:30 AM  

JollyMagistrate: So, this CNN poll everyone is talking about? This is the sampling data for the poll:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/10/03/top12.pdf

Some things to consider, this poll only went out to:

-Voters in the south (No other regions of the US were sampled)
-Voters over 50 (no voters under age 50 participated)
-Voters that were white (no minorities of any kind participated)
-Voters that Attended College (No non-college participants recorded)

This poll is insanely skewed. You can see the data for yourself on page 15 of the pdf.

I personally think Romney did better in the debate, but this sort of polling is grossly misleading and shameful.


Also only Conservatices and Moderates.
 
2012-10-04 11:06:53 AM  

XyzzyBob: markie_farkie: 'Winning' the Talking Out Your Ass and Disavowing Everything Spoken on the Campaign Trail categories isn't 'Winning'.

What everyone saw was a glimpse of classic Bain Mitt... The oily, Say Anything guy who relies on his overinflated self-worth and utter lack of integrity to close a deal.

I was truly curious as to how the "left-wingers" viewed the debate. I thought Romney was much more composed, better prepared and basically thought that Obama didn't even show up. I certainly don't, however, think you got a "Bain Mitt".

I think what Romney was throwing out was more his actual, honest to god thoughts on things, and less the political party line that he's been forced to follow for nearly the entirety of the nomination process. It was more "Massachusetts Mitt" and less right-wing derp.

If I were going to base my vote solely on this debate, Romney would have gotten it yesterday. Romney did a decent job in MA, working with a majority of Dems that are not only Dems, but true "Massachusetts Democrats". He certainly has better credentials for dealing with compromise than Obama has mustered over the past 4 years, regardless of where the disagreements come from.

Personally, I saw points from Romney that I had been hoping to see throughout his campaign. Sure he's rich. Sure he sometimes stumbles over himself trying to relate to "the little guy", but he's got ideas, hes' got compassion, and he's not the "RoboMitt" that a vast majority here seem to write him off as.

I was leaning heavily towards voting for Johnson in the election... not so sure now. Obama certainly didn't do himself justice last night... he seemed out of sorts. He'll have to do better than that if he wants to convince me, at least, that he can get things done over the next 4 years.

Just my $0.02... shred it how you will.


So are you voting for "Debate Mitt" or "Entire Rest of the Campaign Mitt"?

We're at a point where I almost expect to see Romney ask the audience to close their eyes and imagine the most perfect leader the United States could ever have. One that has all the qualities and none of the faults. Then he tells them that he will be that President, whatever it was they imagined.

/Also, while their eyes are closed, he'll swipe their 401(k)
 
2012-10-04 11:07:24 AM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: He "won" in terms of dominating the discussion through bullying the moderator. But he lied out of his a$$ to do it.

Don't expect "Professor Obama" next debate. Same thing happened in 2008...he foolishly gave his opponent the benefit of the doubt. He won't make that mistake again.


Exactly. Obama's going to be assertive, to the point and basically paint Romney as a lying hypocrite come the second debate.
 
2012-10-04 11:08:03 AM  

DarnoKonrad: It was almost the exact same performance with Hillary. I have no clue what the shiat storm is about. I thought Romney was incomprehensible and spastic.


It's all about perception. Romney has been seen as an idiotic clown for months. People overlooked the flaws in his performance, because they were shocked not to see the caricature of him they had formed in their heads. Romney won because he beat expectations.
 
2012-10-04 11:08:06 AM  

Danger Mouse: Without the teleprompter Obama is a bag of hot air. He looked like shiat last night. If Romeny was lying, then why didn't Obama call him on it? why did Obama stand there staring at his hands nodding like a little girl? If Obama was the smartest man in the room, why did he flub the entire debate? What a loser.

What cracks me up is all the libtards in Fark tripping overthemselve to make excuses and dismiss it.

Your emperor has no clothes.


You should throw in the whole 57 states thing too. It's good for a bonus troll bingo square.
 
2012-10-04 11:08:17 AM  

TommyDeuce: We're at a point where I almost expect to see Romney ask the audience to close their eyes and imagine the most perfect leader the United States could ever have. One that has all the qualities and none of the faults. Then he tells them that he will be that President, whatever it was they imagined.


Rmoney: Generic. Republican. Candidate.
 
2012-10-04 11:08:17 AM  

imontheinternet: That poll was conducted last week. Note the use of the dates Sept. 27-30. It's also a few points off the average for that time period.

The post-debate numbers will likely take a few days.


Oh, I know. I was just responding to his request for a poll that oversamples Democrats. Most polls do; probably not intentionally. I personally think it's because Republicans are too busy or leery to answer unknown phone numbers.
 
2012-10-04 11:09:24 AM  

Danger Mouse: Without the teleprompter Obama is a bag of hot air. He looked like shiat last night. If Romeny was lying, then why didn't Obama call him on it? why did Obama stand there staring at his hands nodding like a little girl? If Obama was the smartest man in the room, why did he flub the entire debate? What a loser.

What cracks me up is all the libtards in Fark tripping overthemselve to make excuses and dismiss it.

Your emperor has no clothes.


He did, occassionally. So now retract your post, right? But no, youre a moron just spouting BS like Romney.

If a conservative says Romney won you just ask, "How?" They get mad and cant answer. Thats all you need to know about this debate.
 
2012-10-04 11:10:41 AM  

theorellior: I know everyone thinks Obama plays the "long game" and all that, but it might have been nice if he'd actually attempted to stem the astounding flood of used-car salesmanship coming from Romney last night.

Rope-a-dope, eh? Well, let's hope that's the game plan here. I certainly didn't see it.


Neither did Foreman until the 8th round.
 
2012-10-04 11:12:38 AM  

blastoh: Hack Patooey: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage.

I don't think that anyone on the Obama campaign ever seriously contemplated that Romney would just ignore reality and substitute his own delusions.

That's what I told SWMBO this morning. I think Obama was blindsided by Romney just talking out his ass like what he was saying was both accurate and what he's been saying all along, and wasn't prepared for it. I think Obama was rattled.

Watching it, there were several times when Obama had that "Did he just say THAT?" look on his face.

I also think that Obama is kind of "trapped" a little in that he can't come out and say, "Then stop electing dumb ass republicans to congress who's only motive is to see me be a 1 term president."
Sadly, Obama had to stand there and take responsibility for some of the problems he has been dealing with becuase the republicans have already painted him as someone who won't take responsibility.

However, the campaign, and other democrats can do that starting today.

Also, I Obama was counting on Romney acting more crazy, and was just hoping to get Romney to go on the record with some things he can use against him later.

He did that.


Truthfully he should come out and say exactly that. It worked for another President who had to deal with the same crap. Two of them did it in recent memory.. and won because of it. Roosevelt (Teddy) and Truman.
 
2012-10-04 11:13:39 AM  
Romney doing good in the debates has brought out the right wingers for sure, there are moran fark than I have seen in a long time. He gave them the courage to post on a forum where dissenting views are not deleted by moderators and posters are banned.
 
2012-10-04 11:14:20 AM  
you can see what's happening here. can't you feel it?

sleep tight.
 
2012-10-04 11:15:06 AM  

digistil: tenpoundsofcheese: a poll that over samples democrats

That smells an awful lot like it came out of your brain. Citation needed.


If the number of democrats sampled is greater than zero they have been oversampled.
 
2012-10-04 11:15:36 AM  

Rwa2play: theorellior: I know everyone thinks Obama plays the "long game" and all that, but it might have been nice if he'd actually attempted to stem the astounding flood of used-car salesmanship coming from Romney last night.

Rope-a-dope, eh? Well, let's hope that's the game plan here. I certainly didn't see it.

Neither did Foreman until the 8th round.


Well, let's hope that's the case here.
 
2012-10-04 11:16:09 AM  

Headso: Romney doing good in the debates has brought out the right wingers for sure, there are moran fark than I have seen in a long time.


The Reason?

www.pr.com
www.pr.com
www.pr.com

Alts
 
2012-10-04 11:16:45 AM  

Headso: Romney doing good in the debates has brought out the right wingers for sure, there are moran fark than I have seen in a long time. He gave them the courage to post on a forum where dissenting views are not deleted by moderators and posters are banned.


More like the day-to-day Fark Independents felt comfortable trotting out their old discredited derper accounts.
 
2012-10-04 11:17:40 AM  
Hee-hee. I can hardly *wait* for the Ryan-Biden match (er, debate). Ryan is going to wipe the floor with Joey...
 
2012-10-04 11:18:13 AM  
This looks to be the biggest margin of victory in presidential debate history. Total domination.
 
2012-10-04 11:18:41 AM  

mark12A: Hee-hee. I can hardly *wait* for the Ryan-Biden match (er, debate). Ryan is going to wipe the floor with Joey...


That seems as unlikely as Romney winning last night...which apparently is a thing that happened

/anything is possible I guess
 
2012-10-04 11:19:00 AM  

mrshowrules: Headso: Romney doing good in the debates has brought out the right wingers for sure, there are moran fark than I have seen in a long time. He gave them the courage to post on a forum where dissenting views are not deleted by moderators and posters are banned.

More like the day-to-day Fark Independents felt comfortable trotting out their old discredited derper accounts.


It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

No, really. I'm outraged. My rage is out.
 
2012-10-04 11:19:29 AM  
 
2012-10-04 11:19:41 AM  
cry more guys, it's music
 
2012-10-04 11:19:50 AM  

cman: markie_farkie: 'Winning' the Talking Out Your Ass and Disavowing Everything Spoken on the Campaign Trail categories isn't 'Winning'.

What everyone saw was a glimpse of classic Bain Mitt... The oily, Say Anything guy who relies on his overinflated self-worth and utter lack of integrity to close a deal.

Perception is reality

JFK and Nixon had the first televised Presidential debate. Nixon mopped the floor with JFK, but because of Nixon being ill, JFK was seen as the real winner.

A lot of times it does not matter what is said, just how its said.


In this case it's both seeing as how Romney openly lied about not only President Obama's accomplishments, but his own and what he would try to accomplish as President.
 
2012-10-04 11:20:00 AM  
As a flaming lib, I am disappointed with Obama last night. His performance wasn't fatal, but he seemed as if he got caught off-guard. It was almost as if he'd gotten a little too comfortable watching Romney shoot himself in the foot and forgot that at some point he had to actively campaign against him. Bit of a rude awakening.

Obama is no rookie when it comes to dealing with hairy campaign situations, so he has a good chance to rectify the situation. Fortunately, he erred on the side of caution and Romney didn't have any salient, stand-out quotable moments (other than the Big Bird thing) but I do expect Romney to make modest, fleeting, but important gains in the polls. If anything, he's proven that he's not entirely incompetent and finished a bad streak for his campaign.

In short, Obama had to keep cool but he got chilly instead. And Romney, who desperately needed an orgy, ended up just getting laid.
 
2012-10-04 11:20:51 AM  

Masso: Yeah, Obama did terrible. He could have addressed Romney's bullshiat, but instead he stuck to some rehearsed talking points. $716 Billion was RIGHT THERE for you on a silver plate, multiple times. Obama, the fark were you doing?

Jim Lehrer is the loser, dude couldn't moderate shiat.


Trying to live without the teleprompter.
 
2012-10-04 11:21:35 AM  
According to the ten or so FWD:FWD:FWD:FWD emails from my Republican family today with subject lines like "Top Romney debate lines", Mitt Romney is automatically president now. Obama should just step down.
 
2012-10-04 11:22:44 AM  
That 47% video is still out there making a HUGE stink, Subbo. Rmoney declared class war on nearly half of America.
 
2012-10-04 11:22:46 AM  
I think Obama was caught so off guard by Mitt basically changing half his policies on live television that he didn't know what to say.
 
2012-10-04 11:23:06 AM  

EyeballKid: Headso: Romney doing good in the debates has brought out the right wingers for sure, there are moran fark than I have seen in a long time.

The Reason?

[www.pr.com image 255x332]
[www.pr.com image 255x332]
[www.pr.com image 255x332]

Alts


I had to check the timestamp to see if that was a simulpost. Off by quite a bit though but I thought exactly what you said.
 
2012-10-04 11:24:03 AM  

JollyMagistrate: So, this CNN poll everyone is talking about? This is the sampling data for the poll:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/10/03/top12.pdf

Some things to consider, this poll only went out to:

-Voters in the south (No other regions of the US were sampled)
-Voters over 50 (no voters under age 50 participated)
-Voters that were white (no minorities of any kind participated)
-Voters that Attended College (No non-college participants recorded)

This poll is insanely skewed. You can see the data for yourself on page 15 of the pdf.

I personally think Romney did better in the debate, but this sort of polling is grossly misleading and shameful.


I hate to burst your bubble but what you said isn't really true.

They didn't have statistically significant data for the other classes. They didn't just sample from the South, or from white voters, or voters that attended college. They chose a cutoff point of maybe 9 or 10%. That's why you see some things +/- 8.5 percentage points, but none 13.5 or something.

It's not skewed, or at least it's not ridiculously skewed. 80% of the respondents were landline though, so they probably skewed older. And they may have asked more people from the south or older people, but not to a disgusting degree. Remember, voters over 50 are much more likely to vote.

Still, the poll questions in particular are interesting. "Who did the best job in the debate?" is not "Who won the debate?"

Overall I don't think this debate is going to do much for Romney, it was a forgettable debate and though Obama did appear less energetic, I don't think it sank his ship. And as others have said, Romney's going to have to stand up to fact checkers.
 
2012-10-04 11:24:05 AM  
Shocking performance by both candidates - Romney came across as mega-competent, mega-informed, energetic, open, and dignified-but-human. Obama seemed almost like a candidate who wanted to lose - worn out, depressed, distracted, rambling, bitter, not charismatic, not convinced of the rightness of his own ideas. Just the physical postures of the two candidates standing at the podiums told the tale. On the other hand, they both seemed to genuinely respect each other and desire to set a different tone than has recently characterized the American political dialog.

The most memorable moment in the debate for me came during Obama's closing statement. A spark of that old 2008 intensity returned to his gaze as he insisted, with that characteristic 'yes we can has cheeseburger' umbrella-mouthed frown, that he had fought for us. My eyes misted up, there... I can really only imagine how true that is, and what sort of circumstances could bring so low such a towering figure. Win or lose, I'll always be grateful to the President for waging that fight. But that's a losing slogan. So is "forward". How about "unite"? How about "love"?
 
2012-10-04 11:24:15 AM  

born_yesterday: mrshowrules: Headso: Romney doing good in the debates has brought out the right wingers for sure, there are moran fark than I have seen in a long time. He gave them the courage to post on a forum where dissenting views are not deleted by moderators and posters are banned.

More like the day-to-day Fark Independents felt comfortable trotting out their old discredited derper accounts.

It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

No, really. I'm outraged. My rage is out.


Mine's out to but it's starting to get cold.
 
2012-10-04 11:25:07 AM  

Danger Mouse: Without the teleprompter Obama is a bag of hot air. He looked like shiat last night. If Romeny was lying, then why didn't Obama call him on it? why did Obama stand there staring at his hands nodding like a little girl? If Obama was the smartest man in the room, why did he flub the entire debate? What a loser.

What cracks me up is all the libtards in Fark tripping overthemselve to make excuses and dismiss it.

Your emperor has no clothes.


God, you're right. I've been so wrong, I'm going to go early vote for Romney right now. I've always sort of wanted to live as a serf in a feudal society. I hope my local noble isn't too capricious.
 
2012-10-04 11:25:36 AM  
Romney lied 27 times in 38 minutes

Even the former record-holder, used car salesman Earl Schmittenhauer from Dongola IL, was impressed with that performance.
 
2012-10-04 11:25:46 AM  

CPennypacker: I think Obama was caught so off guard by Mitt basically changing half his policies on live television that he didn't know what to say.


True. I thought the "nevermind" line was good. Are some Conservatives going to be pissed that Romney is softening his stance or is it a "wink wink" moment because they know he is just saying what it takes to get elected.
 
2012-10-04 11:27:24 AM  

TommyDeuce: Danger Mouse: Without the teleprompter Obama is a bag of hot air. He looked like shiat last night. If Romeny was lying, then why didn't Obama call him on it? why did Obama stand there staring at his hands nodding like a little girl? If Obama was the smartest man in the room, why did he flub the entire debate? What a loser.

What cracks me up is all the libtards in Fark tripping overthemselve to make excuses and dismiss it.

Your emperor has no clothes.

God, you're right. I've been so wrong, I'm going to go early vote for Romney right now. I've always sort of wanted to live as a serf in a feudal society. I hope my local noble isn't too capricious.


I shall rule you with a hard but loving fist, TommyDeuce.
 
2012-10-04 11:27:48 AM  
We actually now live in a world where Big Bird is more at risk of being taken off the air than Honey Boo Boo Child!

Let that horrible fact sink in, and begin screaming.
 
2012-10-04 11:30:21 AM  

markie_farkie: 'Winning' the Talking Out Your Ass and Disavowing Everything Spoken on the Campaign Trail categories isn't 'Winning'.

What everyone saw was a glimpse of classic Bain Mitt... The oily, Say Anything guy who relies on his overinflated self-worth and utter lack of integrity to close a deal.


www.egyptianagriculture.comOh look, it's just a river.
 
2012-10-04 11:32:09 AM  

SkinnyHead: This looks to be the biggest margin of victory in presidential debate history. Total domination.


Oh look, it's skinnyhead.
 
2012-10-04 11:32:38 AM  
TV's Vinnie: Big Bird will survive, even if he has to drink Coca Cola on air. Charlie Rose, John McLaughlin, Nova and Frontline would be farked though. Which is definitely our loss.

/screaming
 
2012-10-04 11:32:57 AM  

TV's Vinnie: We actually now live in a world where Big Bird is more at risk of being taken off the air than Honey Boo Boo Child!

Let that horrible fact sink in, and begin screaming.


ts4.mm.bing.net

you've got a point there.
 
2012-10-04 11:32:58 AM  

TV's Vinnie: We actually now live in a world where Big Bird is more at risk of being taken off the air than Honey Boo Boo Child!

Let that horrible fact sink in, and begin screaming.


I've been screaming since last July.
 
2012-10-04 11:33:04 AM  

shifty lookin bleeder: LasersHurt: This is America. A huge part of the population here does not care about content. They don't understand content. They don't want content. That's half the reason we're as skizza-boned as we are now

But most of them can understand that 20% of 25 = 5, no matter how many zeros follow. That Obama did not drive that home last night and let Romney slink away from explaining in any detail, the 20% across the board cut in rates that he's been promising for almost two years was one of the biggest failures in the history of presidential debates. And I don't think that's an overstatement.


You're giving Americans WAY too much credit.
 
2012-10-04 11:33:20 AM  

born_yesterday: TommyDeuce: Danger Mouse: Without the teleprompter Obama is a bag of hot air. He looked like shiat last night. If Romeny was lying, then why didn't Obama call him on it? why did Obama stand there staring at his hands nodding like a little girl? If Obama was the smartest man in the room, why did he flub the entire debate? What a loser.

What cracks me up is all the libtards in Fark tripping overthemselve to make excuses and dismiss it.

Your emperor has no clothes.

God, you're right. I've been so wrong, I'm going to go early vote for Romney right now. I've always sort of wanted to live as a serf in a feudal society. I hope my local noble isn't too capricious.

I shall rule you with a hard but loving fist, TommyDeuce.


OK, but if you wrap that mailed fist in velvet, I prefer green. It covers the blood spatter better then you'd think.
 
2012-10-04 11:34:19 AM  

FlashHarry: if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50.


Or, as Republicans call it, the only Real AmericansTM who'll be allowed to vote this time around, if we have our way.
 
2012-10-04 11:34:28 AM  

quid: cry more guys, it's music


i1034.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-04 11:34:59 AM  

had98c: HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.

It's pretty straightforward. Victory basically comes from being assertive, sounding like you know what you're talking about, and portraying some semblance of charisma. Regardless of the veracity of his statements, Romney displayed all three of those qualities last night. Obama displayed none. Anyone with a shred of non-bias in them could see it in plain view last night. Romney "won" handily, and it wasn't even remotely close.


I don't subscribe to such theories. If you spend an hour lying about everything, you didn't win, even if you didn't let others talk much.
 
2012-10-04 11:36:04 AM  

mrshowrules: CPennypacker: I think Obama was caught so off guard by Mitt basically changing half his policies on live television that he didn't know what to say.

True. I thought the "nevermind" line was good. Are some Conservatives going to be pissed that Romney is softening his stance or is it a "wink wink" moment because they know he is just saying what it takes to get elected.


Obama should have just come out and called him a liar. No one else is gonna do it for him...certainly not the moderator.
 
2012-10-04 11:36:46 AM  

Alphax: had98c: HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.

It's pretty straightforward. Victory basically comes from being assertive, sounding like you know what you're talking about, and portraying some semblance of charisma. Regardless of the veracity of his statements, Romney displayed all three of those qualities last night. Obama displayed none. Anyone with a shred of non-bias in them could see it in plain view last night. Romney "won" handily, and it wasn't even remotely close.

I don't subscribe to such theories. If you spend an hour lying about everything, you didn't win, even if you didn't let others talk much.


In the real world that is how it works. Do you think that the nervous guy in the corner who can barely get a word out will be able to pick up the hottest chick at the party? No, the confidant guy who knows what he is saying will score.
 
2012-10-04 11:37:46 AM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: mrshowrules: CPennypacker: I think Obama was caught so off guard by Mitt basically changing half his policies on live television that he didn't know what to say.

True. I thought the "nevermind" line was good. Are some Conservatives going to be pissed that Romney is softening his stance or is it a "wink wink" moment because they know he is just saying what it takes to get elected.

Obama should have just come out and called him a liar. No one else is gonna do it for him...certainly not the moderator.


you can look forward to that in the next debate. book it. you heard it here first.
you may quote me on that.
 
2012-10-04 11:38:06 AM  
The derp is tasty. Even when left derp pundits give Mitt the victory, you morans deny, put your hands over your ears,
imageshack.us
' I can't hear you Lalalalalalalalalalaaaaa'

'Where was Obama? Where?' - Chris Matthews
 
2012-10-04 11:38:50 AM  
How I saw the debate:

2.bp.blogspot.com
Not yet (Obama)

2.bp.blogspot.com

Not yet...

2.bp.blogspot.com

Not yet...

2.bp.blogspot.com

Not yet...

allthingsd.com
 
2012-10-04 11:39:09 AM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: The derp is tasty. Even when left derp pundits give Mitt the victory, you morans deny, put your hands over your ears,
[imageshack.us image 288x371]
' I can't hear you Lalalalalalalalalalaaaaa'

'Where was Obama? Where?' - Chris Matthews


Who is denying?
 
2012-10-04 11:40:04 AM  
cdn.thedailybeast.com
 
2012-10-04 11:42:13 AM  

globalwarmingpraiser: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

No, but it might have swayed low information voters.


Swayed them to do what?
 
2012-10-04 11:42:37 AM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: mrshowrules: CPennypacker: I think Obama was caught so off guard by Mitt basically changing half his policies on live television that he didn't know what to say.

True. I thought the "nevermind" line was good. Are some Conservatives going to be pissed that Romney is softening his stance or is it a "wink wink" moment because they know he is just saying what it takes to get elected.

Obama should have just come out and called him a liar. No one else is gonna do it for him...certainly not the moderator.


I'm pretty sure they decided not to go there before the debate for whatever reason and Obama stuck with the plan. I think Obama scored on the Medicare stuff with seniors though i you look back at it. That might help him. Romney telling seniors that are going to be happy they they have the flexibility to go to private insurance is not going to over well with most of the.
 
2012-10-04 11:43:30 AM  
Jesus, somebody turn on an air purifier or something, all these old Alts getting dusted off are riling up my allergies!
 
2012-10-04 11:44:04 AM  

Lando Lincoln: globalwarmingpraiser: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

No, but it might have swayed low information voters.

Swayed them to do what?


Wave gently back and forth.
 
2012-10-04 11:44:07 AM  
Romney must have crushed it. Fark has given up on "he'll be lucky if he doesn't shiat his pants on stage" and moved on to Big Bird, Romney lied, and the moderator was bad.
 
2012-10-04 11:44:49 AM  

CPennypacker: Lt. Cheese Weasel: The derp is tasty. Even when left derp pundits give Mitt the victory, you morans deny, put your hands over your ears,
[imageshack.us image 288x371]
' I can't hear you Lalalalalalalalalalaaaaa'

'Where was Obama? Where?' - Chris Matthews

Who is denying?


soup: - Lie at least 5 times whenever it's your turn to speak.
- Smirk creepily the entire time it's not your turn to speak.
- Flip-flop on core issues.
- Talk about firing the moderator.

So this is what a Republican "win" looks like, eh?

 
2012-10-04 11:46:34 AM  
I hadn't watched it (yet). I don't know what benefit it would do me.
I already know Obama hasn't kept up his promises I find important, and Romney is an untrustworthy human being (also).
So neither deserve my vote.
 
2012-10-04 11:48:14 AM  
Romney wins debate as Obama falls flat
Romney brought a chainsaw...
A grown-up has shown up...

/the O's smirk didn't work
 
2012-10-04 11:48:19 AM  

js34603: Romney must have crushed it. Fark has given up on "he'll be lucky if he doesn't shiat his pants on stage" and moved on to Big Bird, Romney lied, and the moderator was bad.


It's almost as if we're now AFTER the debate, when people CAN talk about the things that happened instead of speculation.
 
2012-10-04 11:49:02 AM  

vernonFL: I agree that Romney "won" because he seemed like a normal human. Obama didn't seem his best


To be fair, it was his anniversary. He probably wanted to get the debate over with so he could spend time with his wife.
 
2012-10-04 11:50:59 AM  

js34603: Romney must have crushed it. Fark has given up on "he'll be lucky if he doesn't shiat his pants on stage" and moved on to Big Bird, Romney lied, and the moderator was bad.


Romney did well. He seemed cool under pressure, he talked fast, and he made the moderator his biatch. He did what he does best - he lied convincingly and he made up new policy positions on the fly, which threw Obama off. Today Romney will say that he never said those things and everybody will say, "Oh that Romney!"

Obama did well too, but Romney was definitely more animated.
 
2012-10-04 11:57:03 AM  
I'm not too worried. Historically, debates don't change the final outcome all that much. Rmoney may pick up some undecideds but anyone who is firmly in either camp won't be changing their minds, no matter what.

I didn't catch the entire debate but the part I did watch, Romney came across more confident but also like a complete dick, and all that came out of his mouth were talking points we've been hearing for months now, and which have been thoroughly debunked for months now. And oh god do I want to slap that dumb smirk off his face.
 
2012-10-04 11:58:08 AM  

CPennypacker: Lt. Cheese Weasel: The derp is tasty. Even when left derp pundits give Mitt the victory, you morans deny, put your hands over your ears,
[imageshack.us image 288x371]
' I can't hear you Lalalalalalalalalalaaaaa'

'Where was Obama? Where?' - Chris Matthews

Who is denying?


"Wheres he at?" 0bama, 2007
 
2012-10-04 11:58:47 AM  

James!: Did anyone change their vote?


I did. Retroactively in the future.

You wouldn't understand it. Presidential time travel stuff.
 
2012-10-04 11:58:57 AM  
In fairness, the debates are about perception. Romney didn't poop his pants, but he did appear spastic, overbearing, and the take away that folks have is that Obama was calm, and Romney wants to gut PBS and Big Bird.

For the folks who are talking about a "win" in the debates, you have to consider the take away. Romney pretty much cemented in his performance last night, that he's a douche. A douche that doesn't like specifics, and is none too concerned with facts.

As a Conservative, this is a problem for me. Oddly enough, part of that Conservatism is that I like workable plans. I like changes that make economic sense. Romneys plans are nebulous, and in his attempts to spin away from specifics, he sets off a lot of sirens in my head. Mind you, I already had the gentleman as Governor, and remember what his Administration was like. It was a mess, and saddled the state with a LOT of debt, and for all the touting of his accomplishments in education, he left the state in some serious trouble in that department.

What the debates did was help cement each candidate in the minds of the voters. Romney came off spastic and douchey. Obama came off as cool headed and methodical. Which do you think makes me, as a Conservative, feel a bit better just on the personality level? When you couple it with the fiscal radicalism that Romney advocates, I am left with the take away that a Romney Administration will be bad for the nation.

It's not about "winning" on points. It's about the reaction to the candidate and the final thoughts on who these men are. Romney only reinforced the image that I had already. And it's not a good one.
 
2012-10-04 11:59:40 AM  

netcentric: Romney wins debate as Obama falls flat
Romney brought a chainsaw...
A grown-up has shown up...

/the O's smirk didn't work


You're a big fan of professional wrestling, aren't you.
 
2012-10-04 11:59:51 AM  

CPennypacker: I think Obama was caught so off guard by Mitt basically changing half his policies on live television that he didn't know what to say.


Yeah, Obama should have remembered that Romney's Daily power is Etch-A-Sketch.
 
2012-10-04 12:01:46 PM  
cache.gawker.com
 
2012-10-04 12:03:49 PM  
Vot

Lando Lincoln: globalwarmingpraiser: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

No, but it might have swayed low information voters.

Swayed them to do what?


Vote Romney and buy a buy here pay here truck cause it is manly.
 
2012-10-04 12:04:29 PM  

js34603: Romney must have crushed it. Fark has given up on "he'll be lucky if he doesn't shiat his pants on stage" and moved on to Big Bird, Romney lied, and the moderator was bad.


So does this give Ohio and Florida?
 
2012-10-04 12:06:03 PM  
I hear people asking 'when have debates ever mattered?' Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered. They mattered in 1960, too. Generally, when it's really close, they matter

/Romney's bar, as is always the case when going against an unpopular (>50% approval rating) incumbent, is not to seem 'unacceptable'. he's still behind, but it's going to be close
 
2012-10-04 12:06:27 PM  

mrshowrules: So does this give Ohio and Florida?


I dunno, but I think Mitt sold them a very reliable Chevette with only 260,000 miles.
 
2012-10-04 12:06:58 PM  
Mitt won; I gotta give him props on that. Now, if he just stop himself from saying something stupid until November...

/Still voting for the black dude.
 
2012-10-04 12:11:01 PM  

tooeasy: I hear people asking 'when have debates ever mattered?' Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered. They mattered in 1960, too. Generally, when it's really close, they matter

/Romney's bar, as is always the case when going against an unpopular (>50% approval rating) incumbent, is not to seem 'unacceptable'. he's still behind, but it's going to be close


In 1960 and 1980 they didn't campaign for a year at a stretch like they do today. Nowadays, by the time the conventions are over, very few people haven't already made up their minds.
 
2012-10-04 12:13:53 PM  
I fell asleep during the debate and am just now getting up to speed. But my impression was that Obama was really trying hard to pull his punches, possibly to position himself for a final assault in the two coming debates.

I don't know, but if that's all he's got then Romney is going to win simply because he puts up more herty-derp bullshiat.

It doesn't matter to me personally because there's nothing that cocksucking, shake and bake douchebag can say to get me to vote for him. But if Obama can't be any more aggressive than he was last night he deserves to lose.
 
2012-10-04 12:13:57 PM  
I was fascinated by this poll last night (at least, I think it was this one). It looked like people who thought Romney won big were a much larger percentage than those who thought Obama won big, but when you factor in people who thought one of the two narrowly won, it was Obama out in front.

In other words, people who were looking for a dick waving contest thought Romney was on top, but people who listened thoughtfully and judiciously favored Obama.
 
2012-10-04 12:14:59 PM  
I think the main thing that we learned from last nights debate (and debate thread) is that there are only about 20 Republicans left on Fark.

From 2003-2008, Fark was pretty even in the politics thread. Now it's mostly just a bunch of people agreeing with each other and seeing who can win the coveted "Most Liberal Farker" award.
 
2012-10-04 12:15:12 PM  

tooeasy: Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered.


Well primary elections are a different story. They did a good job of eliminating some Republican front-runners this time as well. According to Nate Silver, the most that the first debate of the presidential election has swayed the polls since 1976 was 3.6%, and that was in Mondale's favor in 1984 when Reagan was winning in a landslide.
 
2012-10-04 12:15:16 PM  

had98c: HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.

It's pretty straightforward. Victory basically comes from being assertive, sounding like you know what you're talking about, and portraying some semblance of charisma. Regardless of the veracity of his statements, Romney displayed all three of those qualities last night. Obama displayed none. Anyone with a shred of non-bias in them could see it in plain view last night. Romney "won" handily, and it wasn't even remotely close.


I agree, and I'm an Obama supporter. He got his ass handed to him. Mostly because of what he didn't do, rather than what Romney did do.
 
2012-10-04 12:15:53 PM  

tooeasy: I hear people asking 'when have debates ever mattered?' Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered. They mattered in 1960, too. Generally, when it's really close, they matter

/Romney's bar, as is always the case when going against an unpopular (>50% approval rating) incumbent, is not to seem 'unacceptable'. he's still behind, but it's going to be close


That looks wrong.
 
2012-10-04 12:17:07 PM  

Lando Lincoln: tooeasy: I hear people asking 'when have debates ever mattered?' Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered. They mattered in 1960, too. Generally, when it's really close, they matter

/Romney's bar, as is always the case when going against an unpopular (>50% approval rating) incumbent, is not to seem 'unacceptable'. he's still behind, but it's going to be close

In 1960 and 1980 they didn't campaign for a year at a stretch like they do today. Nowadays, by the time the conventions are over, very few people haven't already made up their minds.


neither side has over 50%, and the polls are within the margin of error. sure, it seems to me that it'd be hard to imagine anybody still being undecided, but they're out there. most likely, this one comes down to turnout and enthusiasm (i'd say obama was in trouble before the conventions, but he had a much better convention than romney had, and erased the enthusiasm gap)
 
2012-10-04 12:18:30 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.

He just controlled the conversation the most. Always got the last word. Steamrolled the moderator.

So just aggression? That's what wins? Content be damned I guess. And here I thought it was a debate.


They haven't been debates for decades.
 
2012-10-04 12:19:12 PM  

soup: - Lie at least 5 times whenever it's your turn to speak.
- Smirk creepily the entire time it's not your turn to speak.
- Flip-flop on core issues.
- Talk about firing the moderator.

So this is what a Republican "win" looks like, eh?


I'd add:

- Argue and bully the moderator when you don't get your way
- Always demand the last word, do it even if your demand isn't met
 
2012-10-04 12:20:35 PM  

Poopspasm: I was fascinated by this poll last night (at least, I think it was this one). It looked like people who thought Romney won big were a much larger percentage than those who thought Obama won big, but when you factor in people who thought one of the two narrowly won, it was Obama out in front.

In other words, people who were looking for a dick waving contest thought Romney was on top, but people who listened thoughtfully and judiciously favored Obama.


I can't help but laugh when I'm reading a solid post about thoughtfulness and judiciousness, then notice it's written by a guy named "Poopspasm". :P

/Rock on
 
2012-10-04 12:21:16 PM  

netcentric: Romney wins debate as Obama falls flat
Romney brought a chainsaw...
A grown-up has shown up...

/the O's smirk didn't work


Troll or not:

The O's smirk???!??!?

No, Romney was the one with the smarmy, slimy, fake, used-car-salesman smirk all night long.
 
2012-10-04 12:21:52 PM  

Poopspasm: people who listened thoughtfully and judiciously favored Obama.


Welp, that's it. Obama's farked.
 
2012-10-04 12:22:22 PM  

mrshowrules: tooeasy: I hear people asking 'when have debates ever mattered?' Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered. They mattered in 1960, too. Generally, when it's really close, they matter

/Romney's bar, as is always the case when going against an unpopular (>50% approval rating) incumbent, is not to seem 'unacceptable'. he's still behind, but it's going to be close

That looks wrong.


he's right around 50%, but not consistently well clear of it. or are you arguing that obama is a popular incumbent?
 
2012-10-04 12:22:22 PM  
Honestly, I thought it was a draw. Romney did much better than I expected him to, but I found his pushiness to be overbearing. His absolute need to be last (even when it wasn't his turn) was frankly a turn-off.

I wasn't going to vote for him anyway, so no matter.

We watched it on CNN, and I found I spent most of my time watching the "undecided voter opinion" lines running at the bottom of the screen. The bar for "men" went up a lot of the time when Romney spoke, and the bar for "women" went up when the President spoke. The only exceptions were when either candidate talked about education (both lines tended to go up), and when either talked about possible military intervention (both lines went down).

The other thing I found interesting was when either of the candidates went negative, both lines went not only back to neutral, but went seriously negative. I think people have had enough of the "other guy bad!!!!1!" stuff, and want to hear more about what each candidate is *for*... and not just a non-specific answer like "Freedom!!!!" or "Jobs!!!"
 
2012-10-04 12:23:45 PM  
 
2012-10-04 12:24:24 PM  

Brandyelf: Honestly, I thought it was a draw. Romney did much better than I expected him to, but I found his pushiness to be overbearing. His absolute need to be last (even when it wasn't his turn) was frankly a turn-off.

I wasn't going to vote for him anyway, so no matter.

We watched it on CNN, and I found I spent most of my time watching the "undecided voter opinion" lines running at the bottom of the screen. The bar for "men" went up a lot of the time when Romney spoke, and the bar for "women" went up when the President spoke. The only exceptions were when either candidate talked about education (both lines tended to go up), and when either talked about possible military intervention (both lines went down).

The other thing I found interesting was when either of the candidates went negative, both lines went not only back to neutral, but went seriously negative. I think people have had enough of the "other guy bad!!!!1!" stuff, and want to hear more about what each candidate is *for*... and not just a non-specific answer like "Freedom!!!!" or "Jobs!!!"



Yea I don't get it either, but then there was at least one debate McCain won. I agree with you, Mitt came off as a jerk and Obama just did what he does. It was very similar to a debate he had with Clinton.
 
2012-10-04 12:25:56 PM  

netcentric: A grown-up has shown up...


Are you calling Obama "boy"?

Another story related by Martin Luther King, Jr. was that once the car his father was driving was stopped by a police officer, and the officer addressed the senior King as "boy". King pointed to his son, saying "This is a boy, I'm a man; until you call me one, I will not listen to you."
 
2012-10-04 12:26:24 PM  

markie_farkie: Romney lied 27 times in 38 minutes

Even the former record-holder, used car salesman Earl Schmittenhauer from Dongola IL, was impressed with that performance.


I ain't even mad. That's amazing.
 
2012-10-04 12:26:30 PM  

quid: cry more guys, it's music


Romney is still down by a lot with under a month to go. I wouldn't start planning the victory parade just yet.
 
2012-10-04 12:26:38 PM  

tooeasy: neither side has over 50%, and the polls are within the margin of error.


The nationwide polls that don't actually matter, yes. Electoral college...not so much.

There's 8 battleground states, and Obama is winning in 7 of them.
 
2012-10-04 12:27:12 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: mrshowrules: CPennypacker: I think Obama was caught so off guard by Mitt basically changing half his policies on live television that he didn't know what to say.

True. I thought the "nevermind" line was good. Are some Conservatives going to be pissed that Romney is softening his stance or is it a "wink wink" moment because they know he is just saying what it takes to get elected.

Obama should have just come out and called him a liar. No one else is gonna do it for him...certainly not the moderator.


The President could have won the whole night simply by saying "As a businessman, I am sure Mr Romney is aware that small business income taxes are taken only from profits. Profits are calculated only after all employees are paid. I would like Mr Romney to explain how altering taxes on a pool of money that by definition does not include wages affects the ability of small businesses to employ people. "

/But Obama didn't, so he lost
 
2012-10-04 12:28:10 PM  

tooeasy: mrshowrules: tooeasy: I hear people asking 'when have debates ever mattered?' Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered. They mattered in 1960, too. Generally, when it's really close, they matter

/Romney's bar, as is always the case when going against an unpopular (>50% approval rating) incumbent, is not to seem 'unacceptable'. he's still behind, but it's going to be close

That looks wrong.

he's right around 50%, but not consistently well clear of it. or are you arguing that obama is a popular incumbent?


check what I highlighted. unpopular means less than 50% approval not more than 50% approval regardless of who or what you are talking about.
 
2012-10-04 12:28:54 PM  

SkinnyHead: This looks to be the biggest margin of victory in presidential debate history. Total domination.


What's the metric in this competition?
Kicks in the nutbag? What?
 
2012-10-04 12:29:33 PM  

FlashHarry: CNN's internals (pdf)

if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50. hardly obama-friendly in the first place.

 
2012-10-04 12:29:47 PM  

SkinnyHead: This looks to be the biggest margin of victory in presidential debate history. Total domination.


Except for the first Bush-Kerry debate.
 
2012-10-04 12:30:04 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.


Our mixed household agree that you only "win" political debates when you get elected.
 
2012-10-04 12:30:37 PM  

FlashHarry: CNN's internals (pdf)

if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50. hardly obama-friendly in the first place.


I figured their sample pool was going to be murky, and it's really small too. What was it? 430 telephone interviews? Might as well said 420.
 
2012-10-04 12:30:50 PM  

Peter_B_Risen: I think the main thing that we learned from last nights debate (and debate thread) is that there are only about 20 Republicans left on Fark.

From 2003-2008, Fark was pretty even in the politics thread. Now it's mostly just a bunch of people agreeing with each other and seeing who can win the coveted "Most Liberal Farker" award.


Oh, they're still lurking. But we just had to beat them down with the ugly stick because most of them are batshiat crazy tea baggers arguing it was Clinton's fault for ruining the economy because of Glass-Steagle and all sorts of other nonsense.

What I see is a Republican party crashing in flames with all its stupidity. No one is buying their gimmicks of tax cuts for the rich and opposing deficit spending after they've done so much to fark this country up. This community just reflects that national mood.
 
2012-10-04 12:31:00 PM  
 
2012-10-04 12:31:04 PM  
LasersHurt: It's almost as if we're now AFTER the debate, when people CAN talk about the things that happened instead of speculation.

no no no, js34603 doesn't think you're supposed to absorb and analyze new information, but to simply hold on to preconceptions and live indefinitely in a fantasy world.
 
2012-10-04 12:34:22 PM  

mrshowrules: tooeasy: mrshowrules: tooeasy: I hear people asking 'when have debates ever mattered?' Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered. They mattered in 1960, too. Generally, when it's really close, they matter

/Romney's bar, as is always the case when going against an unpopular (>50% approval rating) incumbent, is not to seem 'unacceptable'. he's still behind, but it's going to be close

That looks wrong.

he's right around 50%, but not consistently well clear of it. or are you arguing that obama is a popular incumbent?

check what I highlighted. unpopular means less than 50% approval not more than 50% approval regardless of who or what you are talking about.


/mistyped
 
2012-10-04 12:36:35 PM  

elchip: Hobodeluxe: FlashHarry: CNN's internals (pdf)

if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50. hardly obama-friendly in the first place.

Late Update: We've dug in a little deeper on this, and there seems to be a straightforward non-nefarious explanation. It appears that where the subgroups within CNN's representative sample of 430 voters were too small to yield statistically valid conclusions about the subgroups themselves, CNN declined to publish those results simply because they were not reliable on their own. We're seeking confirmation from CNN, but this is the most likely explanation - one that is valid. -dk

Later Update: CNN provided us with the internals of the poll, and the demographics of the poll respondents are very much line with normal standards for randomized sampling. -dk


You know what I noticed? Farkers, that keep complaining about this poll or that poll not correctly set up or the results are not statistically significant, have no clue about market research, recruiting, or statistics.

But then again, what else is new?
 
2012-10-04 12:39:41 PM  
The only thing Romney did successfully last night was move more to the center, which everyone knew he would try to do. But it is all smoke and mirrors he is moderate when he needs to be moderate, conservative when he needs to be conservative, and even liberal when he needs to be liberal to win an election. He has no fixed political ideals so anything he says, while it may sound nice and maybe even be persuasive, is total BS.
 
2012-10-04 12:45:01 PM  

Diogenes: I think there are a whole lot of people on both sides that need to step back, get a grip, and get some perspective.


Master. *bows*
 
2012-10-04 12:46:05 PM  

hinten: SkinnyHead: This looks to be the biggest margin of victory in presidential debate history. Total domination.

What's the metric in this competition?
Kicks in the nutbag? What?


The CNN pdf gives polling results from prior debates, and no one has ever scored a 67% win before.

My favorite part was when Romney shot back at Obama: "I'm not in favor of a $5 trillion tax cut. That's not my plan. My plan is not to put in place any tax cut that will add to the deficit. That's point one. So you may keep referring to it as a $5 trillion tax cut, but that's not my plan," and then Obama looks down and says: "OK" Defeated.
 
2012-10-04 12:47:11 PM  

hinten: elchip: Hobodeluxe: FlashHarry: CNN's internals (pdf)

if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50. hardly obama-friendly in the first place.

Late Update: We've dug in a little deeper on this, and there seems to be a straightforward non-nefarious explanation. It appears that where the subgroups within CNN's representative sample of 430 voters were too small to yield statistically valid conclusions about the subgroups themselves, CNN declined to publish those results simply because they were not reliable on their own. We're seeking confirmation from CNN, but this is the most likely explanation - one that is valid. -dk

Later Update: CNN provided us with the internals of the poll, and the demographics of the poll respondents are very much line with normal standards for randomized sampling. -dk

You know what I noticed? Farkers, that keep complaining about this poll or that poll not correctly set up or the results are not statistically significant, have no clue about market research, recruiting, or statistics.

But then again, what else is new?


I actually pointed this out much earlier in this thread. Some Farkers don't read through the posts.
 
2012-10-04 12:48:41 PM  

James!: Did anyone change their vote?


is it too late to vote for Ron Paul? 

is 'no confidence' in our government an option?
 
2012-10-04 12:49:14 PM  

markie_farkie: Romney lied 27 times in 38 minutes

Even the former record-holder, used car salesman Earl Schmittenhauer from Dongola IL, was impressed with that performance.


For balance, is there an Obama analysis as well?
 
2012-10-04 12:49:27 PM  

utharda: I'm glad Mitt won the debate. It might give him something to cling to, on those cold winter nights, when he can't sleep and slowly begins to realize that he isn't a real person, just a hollow shell desperately seeking the approval of those around him. Haunted by his fathers disdain, unable to ever be popular enough, or rich enough to outrun the pain, maybe winning the debate will sustain him when he drops the bottle of jack and reaches for the revolver on the side table.....


I pity the man. I really do.


...are we thinking about the same guy? Cause I think you misunderstandimate the man.
 
2012-10-04 12:52:58 PM  

I drunk what: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

is it too late to vote for Ron Paul? 

is 'no confidence' in our government an option?



Sure, you can always vote for Ron Paul.
 
2012-10-04 12:54:09 PM  

This Looks Fun: markie_farkie: Romney lied 27 times in 38 minutes

Even the former record-holder, used car salesman Earl Schmittenhauer from Dongola IL, was impressed with that performance.

For balance, is there an Obama analysis as well?


He wasn't actually at the debate...An empty chair stood in for him.
 
2012-10-04 12:55:23 PM  

James!: I drunk what: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

is it too late to vote for Ron Paul? 

is 'no confidence' in our government an option?


Sure, you can always vote for Ron Paul.


then your answer is 'No'
 
2012-10-04 12:56:20 PM  

tooeasy: mrshowrules: tooeasy: mrshowrules: tooeasy: I hear people asking 'when have debates ever mattered?' Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered. They mattered in 1960, too. Generally, when it's really close, they matter

/Romney's bar, as is always the case when going against an unpopular (>50% approval rating) incumbent, is not to seem 'unacceptable'. he's still behind, but it's going to be close

That looks wrong.

he's right around 50%, but not consistently well clear of it. or are you arguing that obama is a popular incumbent?

check what I highlighted. unpopular means less than 50% approval not more than 50% approval regardless of who or what you are talking about.

/mistyped


Understandable - we are all under a lot of pressure. Nobody got hurt this time so that is what counts.
 
2012-10-04 12:58:00 PM  

netcentric: Romney wins debate as Obama falls flat
Romney brought a chainsaw...
A grown-up has shown up...

/the O's smirk didn't work


Who, Romney an adult?

You must be jesting.
 
2012-10-04 01:05:50 PM  

thrasherrr: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: mrshowrules: CPennypacker: I think Obama was caught so off guard by Mitt basically changing half his policies on live television that he didn't know what to say.

True. I thought the "nevermind" line was good. Are some Conservatives going to be pissed that Romney is softening his stance or is it a "wink wink" moment because they know he is just saying what it takes to get elected.

Obama should have just come out and called him a liar. No one else is gonna do it for him...certainly not the moderator.

The President could have won the whole night simply by saying "As a businessman, I am sure Mr Romney is aware that small business income taxes are taken only from profits. Profits are calculated only after all employees are paid. I would like Mr Romney to explain how altering taxes on a pool of money that by definition does not include wages affects the ability of small businesses to employ people. "

/But Obama didn't, so he lost


Unfortunately, you loss about 50% of undecided voters 10 words into the suggested Obama's reply. 90% of undecided voters would not have followed your response even though it should be painfully obvious to anyone who isn't completely brain-dead. Plus it sets up Romney for the line "I think I know more about business than you do".

Romney had a whole bunch of zingers ready for Obama. Perhaps Obama did poorly but it is possible that he could have set himself up to be completely hammered if he wasn't careful. I blame the audience for being idiots.
 
2012-10-04 01:10:11 PM  
I gotta tell ya, as a Republican patriot who usually gets all my information on the dark-colored president from Fox News, this accurate and non-patronizing CNN poll has me thinking maybe these guys aren't the Clinton News Network after all. I think I might just start watchin' me some CNN.
 
2012-10-04 01:14:58 PM  
Ha ha!

Ok, lets say he "won" the debate (lol). Romney ain't winning the Presidency.

If anyone would like to put money on it, I'd be more than happy to oblige.
 
2012-10-04 01:19:12 PM  

HellRaisingHoosier: Ha ha!

Ok, lets say he "won" the debate (lol). Romney ain't winning the Presidency.

If anyone would like to put money on it, I'd be more than happy to oblige.


How do you assume that?
 
2012-10-04 01:21:24 PM  

TommyDeuce: TommyDeuce: So are you voting for "Debate Mitt" or "Entire Rest of the Campaign Mitt"?

We're at a point where I almost expect to see Romney ask the audience to close their eyes and imagine the most perfect leader the United States could ever have. One that has all the qualities and none of the faults. Then he tells them that he will be that President, whatever it was they imagined.

/Also, while their eyes are closed, he'll swipe their 401(k)


Truth be told, I'm still undecided at the moment. If I were to base my vote on the debate, I'd certainly not cast it for the "I don't give a shiat if I'm elected... why am I even HERE" guy, and I actually saw Romney come out and express his own thoughts, as I said, but one debate does not a candidate make.

I still think that Romney is hiding his real ideas behind party lines, and he's trying to pander to the Republican base (that whole Constitution and Declaration of Independence bit, for example), and I thing he's a lot more practical and center-right than he lets on, but that remains to come out in full. The only real selling point he has for me is that he DID succeed in MA, where the Congress is always about 90% Dem, and managed to get things done.

Obama disappointed. He was unfocused, ill-prepared and looked inconvenienced. He was the one throwing zingers and one-liners, and falling back to Demo-derp rather than making coherent arguments. A poor showing for an intelligent guy...

Still will probably go for Johnson... both parties still suck, and spend more time digging at each other than trying to fix what's broken... or even identify what's broken. If things trend in the race the way they leaned in the debates, though, I may change my vote yet.

again, just my thoughts...

//get your own thoughts... they're cheap, and occasionally come in handy.
 
2012-10-04 01:24:34 PM  
Eh, I thought Obama's behavior was fine. Professional, collected, kept to the issues and didn't try to openly dog the opposition. It was what I would hope would come out of a sitting president. He was trying to explain his positions. To contrast, Romney was trying to explain how he doesn't have any useful plan for anything. Good debate.
 
2012-10-04 01:24:40 PM  

RockChalkH1N1: HellRaisingHoosier: Ha ha!

Ok, lets say he "won" the debate (lol). Romney ain't winning the Presidency.

If anyone would like to put money on it, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

How do you assume that?


I'll play. The absolute maximum polling bump Romney gets is 3 points (based on previous first debates). He needs about 5 point bounce in key battleground states.

I personally predict a 2 point bounce that will fade before the election.
 
2012-10-04 01:32:23 PM  

mrshowrules: RockChalkH1N1: HellRaisingHoosier: Ha ha!

Ok, lets say he "won" the debate (lol). Romney ain't winning the Presidency.

If anyone would like to put money on it, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

How do you assume that?

I'll play. The absolute maximum polling bump Romney gets is 3 points (based on previous first debates). He needs about 5 point bounce in key battleground states.

I personally predict a 2 point bounce that will fade before the election.


You know what I find funny, is that Mitt Romney and his campaign of clowns has done nothing but screw up again and again over the last few months. Seriously screw up, like "47% of Americans think they are victims, and that they're owed food and medical care" sort of screw up. Months, one thing after another. Then, he does one thing without pissing someone off or marginalizing an entire group of people, and the troll brigade is all "Woo hoo! Winner!".

So yeah. The trolls can spin "Our guy didn't bring it last night, we admit that" as LIBURUL BUTTHURT LOL!!!!1!!! all they like, but the truth of the matter is, it was one event. One event where their candidate didn't throw up on his shoes or write off half the population. So.... yay?
 
2012-10-04 01:37:06 PM  

Brandyelf: You know what I find funny, is that Mitt Romney and his campaign of clowns has done nothing but screw up again and again over the last few months. Seriously screw up, like "47% of Americans think they are victims, and that they're owed food and medical care" sort of screw up. Months, one thing after another. Then, he does one thing without pissing someone off or marginalizing an entire group of people, and the troll brigade is all "Woo hoo! Winner!".


I'd love it if Rmoney went and said/did something incredibly stupid today, less than 24 hours after the debate.

/Don't say it can't happen
//I'd give it a 47% chance
 
2012-10-04 01:46:22 PM  

born_yesterday: Brandyelf: You know what I find funny, is that Mitt Romney and his campaign of clowns has done nothing but screw up again and again over the last few months. Seriously screw up, like "47% of Americans think they are victims, and that they're owed food and medical care" sort of screw up. Months, one thing after another. Then, he does one thing without pissing someone off or marginalizing an entire group of people, and the troll brigade is all "Woo hoo! Winner!".

I'd love it if Rmoney went and said/did something incredibly stupid today, less than 24 hours after the debate.

/Don't say it can't happen
//I'd give it a 47% chance


Seeing as he did a 180 degree turn on his platform, it would be hilarious if Ryan said something pissy.
 
2012-10-04 01:54:25 PM  
Mitt gains 2 points. Sounded good and came off better even though he was lying through his teeth.
 
2012-10-04 01:54:32 PM  
Can someone sum up the tax cuts Romney says Obama is making up?


Went to see Obama speak in Denver this morning, it was a fun experience!
 
2012-10-04 02:00:33 PM  

jst3p: Went to see Obama speak in Denver this morning, it was a fun experience!


Group therapy?
 
2012-10-04 02:05:48 PM  

Cletus C.: jst3p: Went to see Obama speak in Denver this morning, it was a fun experience!

Group therapy?


Mor like a think tank regarding continuing to undo the damage from the previous adminstration.
 
2012-10-04 02:11:31 PM  

RockChalkH1N1: HellRaisingHoosier: Ha ha!

Ok, lets say he "won" the debate (lol). Romney ain't winning the Presidency.

If anyone would like to put money on it, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

How do you assume that?



Mitt Romney would need to pick up ALL the States that Sen. McCain won in 2008, as well as flip:

-North Carolina
-Florida
-Ohio
-Colorado
-Nevada
-Virginia
-Iowa-
-Indiana
-Ohio
-Colorado
-Nevada

Almost all of which are polling safely .... AND Florida is leaning towards Obama.


It's farking over already!
The only fight left is the U.S. Senate and whether or not the Democrats can hold it.
 
2012-10-04 02:12:21 PM  
Should we be surprised? Seriously, this change of Romney's talking points wasn't unanticipated folks. Hell his campaign TOLD YOU he was going to do this.

"Well, I think you hit a reset button for the fall campaign," Fehrnstrom responded (one of Mitt Romney's advisors). "Everything changes. It's almost like an Etch-A-Sketch. You can kind of shake it up and restart all of over again."
 
2012-10-04 02:12:35 PM  

HellRaisingHoosier: RockChalkH1N1: HellRaisingHoosier: Ha ha!

Ok, lets say he "won" the debate (lol). Romney ain't winning the Presidency.

If anyone would like to put money on it, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

How do you assume that?


Mitt Romney would need to pick up ALL the States that Sen. McCain won in 2008, as well as flip:

-North Carolina
-Florida
-Ohio
-Colorado
-Nevada
-Virginia
-Iowa-
-Indiana
-Ohio
-Colorado
-Nevada

Almost all of which are polling safely .... AND Florida is leaning towards Obama.


It's farking over already!
The only fight left is the U.S. Senate and whether or not the Democrats can hold it.



lol I counted a few of those twice.... my bad
 
2012-10-04 02:19:35 PM  
My two cents...

Last nights debate was exceedingly similar to the first debate between Obama and McCain. McCain made many claims Obama simply ignored then went on to speak policy, rebutted a few then went back to policy. I remember many Obama supporters being disappointed in Obama's performance with McCain in round one....just like last night.

This is only round one of three. It's highly possible (considering the history of the Obama camps strategies and tactics) that this is indeed an underlying strategy of the Obama camp. And if it is it's a great one imo. Let Mitt say what he want's, make the claims he want's and blow his load all in round one. Round one is over there aren't a lot of folks focusing on Obama due to the fact he pretty much recited his same policies while Romney made more claims, spent more time talking (on topic and off), and insisted on having the last word each time. Romney tried and succeed in owning the debate last night. If there is one thing Obama did right last night it was to let Mitt continue on and on because now Romney owns that debate for the next twelve days.

Now comes the scrutiny from the Press/Fact Checkers and they are going to target Romney more than Obama due to him speaking so much and above mention reasons. This wouldn't be such a bad thing as Romney is getting free coverage. The problem is Romney flat out lied several times, couldn't or wouldn't cite examples, denied his own policy and provided examples like his NFIB reference that simply weren't accurate. Unfortunately for the Romney camp they are going to spend a lot of time and energy defending, defining and clarifying. Romney doesn't want to be on the defense right now and now he has no choice in the matter. That leaves a lot of room for more mistakes, inaccurate/false claims, inaccurate statements and so on.

Considering Obama didn't strike on topics like the "716 billion in medicare gutting", the "47%" issue and several others he still has them as ammo to stock pile with what ever comes out in the next 10-12 days. And surprise, surprise, everything Obama got to stock pile is on the table for the next debate.

Like him or not, Obama & Co are articulate, intelligent and highly strategic. Obama may have just "rope-a-doped" Romney. It's the fight you need to win, not the round.
 
2012-10-04 02:20:37 PM  

HellRaisingHoosier: RockChalkH1N1: HellRaisingHoosier: Ha ha!

Ok, lets say he "won" the debate (lol). Romney ain't winning the Presidency.

If anyone would like to put money on it, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

How do you assume that?


Mitt Romney would need to pick up ALL the States that Sen. McCain won in 2008, as well as flip:

-North Carolina
-Florida
-Ohio
-Colorado
-Nevada
-Virginia
-Iowa-
-Indiana
-Ohio
-Colorado
-Nevada

Almost all of which are polling safely .... AND Florida is leaning towards Obama.


It's farking over already!
The only fight left is the U.S. Senate and whether or not the Democrats can hold it.


You can put money on it at intrade. Right now $6.60 will get you $10
 
2012-10-04 02:21:52 PM  
I hate to rain on Mitt's parade, but I think it's worth explaining why I'm still an undecided voter.

The only cut Romney acknowledged he'll make last night was for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

But the Corporation for Public Broadcasting only got $445 million in federal funding last year. Not even a half a billion dollars.

We could cut the Corporation for Public Broadcasting 2000 times, and still not balance the budget.

So Mitt's arithmetic still isn't adding up. He wants to cut taxes (but in a revenue neutral way), close loopholes (but he won't say which ones, and all of the loopholes combined don't add up to the amount of his tax tus), and raise military spending. And he claims he'll cut the deficit.

I'm sorry, but at this I just don't believe this man will be any different than Reagan or Bush Jr., who started us on this long downward fiscal spiral.
 
2012-10-04 02:26:46 PM  

nyseattitude: This is only round one of three. It's highly possible (considering the history of the Obama camps strategies and tactics) that this is indeed an underlying strategy of the Obama camp. And if it is it's a great one imo.


No candidate ever wants to lose a debate this badly. If Obama could have debated Romney to a draw last night, he would have all but ensured Romney's defeat.

That being said, last night's debate does change the expectations game for debate performance, which now strongly favors Obama, and disfavors Romney.
 
2012-10-04 02:28:02 PM  
As long as Paul Ryan winks at me, and the camera operator gives us a lot of gratuitous shots of his ass, I could care less.
 
2012-10-04 02:31:39 PM  
Interesting quote about the debate

"Well, I think the other two accomplishments for [the challenger] last night, to give him his due, is it seems to me going into this debate he had not become a plausible candidate, he had not crossed . . . the acceptability threshold that a challenger needs to cross. And I think he did that last night.

He presented himself as a viable alternative for those who have doubts about [the current administration]. Now, that's not a majority of the country for [the challenger], but it still means that he's in a better position. And I think he also rallied his troops . . . .

But in terms of the fallout for this race, I think you're going to see a little closure but not much. [The President] is still a prohibitive favorite. [The President] held him off last night. To give [the President] his due, he didn't commit any gaffes. He was warm and personable for the most part. He was nervous in the beginning, but I think he came back on better toward the end of the debate."

This is a quote from David Gergen's reaction to the first Reagan-Mondale debate in 1984.
 
2012-10-04 02:32:26 PM  

born_yesterday: As long as Paul Ryan winks at me, and the camera operator gives us a lot of gratuitous shots of his ass, I could care less.


What a Paul Ryan gratuitious ass shot might look like:

timeswampland.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-04 02:39:44 PM  
Last night's debate is playing out EXACTLY as Obama intended.

Mittens' flapping gums and utter disregard for not only facts, but his own campaign claims, has given enough ammunition for Obama to shred him in the next debate, and in commercials everywhere.
 
2012-10-04 02:43:37 PM  
Well I was going to vote for Obama but this debate changed my mind.

Said no one ever.
 
2012-10-04 02:45:12 PM  

markie_farkie: Last night's debate is playing out EXACTLY as Obama intended.

Mittens' flapping gums and utter disregard for not only facts, but his own campaign claims, has given enough ammunition for Obama to shred him in the next debate, and in commercials everywhere.


He killed this morning.
 
2012-10-04 02:46:03 PM  

James!: Did anyone change their vote?


Well, I was going to vote for Obama like "this". Now I'm going to vote for Obama like "THIS"
 
2012-10-04 02:47:38 PM  
This part from this morning got a very big reaction too:

THE PRESIDENT And when he was asked what he'd actually do to cut the deficit and reduce spending, he said he'd eliminate funding for public television.

AUDIENCE: Booo --

THE PRESIDENT: That was his answer. I mean, thank goodness somebody is finally getting tough on Big Bird. (Laughter and applause.) It's about time. We didn't know that Big Bird was driving the federal deficit. (Laughter.) But that's what we heard last night. How about that?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: And Elmo!

THE PRESIDENT: Elmo, too? (Laughter.)
 
2012-10-04 02:59:42 PM  

nyseattitude: [img1.fark.net image 54x11]Romney vows public execution of Big Bird, concentration camp for Snuffaluffagus


That's all we need is a weaponized Romney.
 
2012-10-04 03:02:57 PM  

mrshowrules: Unfortunately, you loss about 50% of undecided voters 10 words into the suggested Obama's reply. 90% of undecided voters would not have followed your response even though it should be painfully obvious to anyone who isn't completely brain-dead. Plus it sets up Romney for the line "I think I know more about business than you do".


I see your point. I suck at keeping things on a third grade level, and may be deluded in believing that a good orator could keep it understandable.

The Romney comeback is part of the attack. Once he claims superiority, the next part is "Then you can explain it to the voters right now. Go ahead." Romney loses the talking point, because he can't. His whole SB/Middle class rhetoric is stopped for the rest of the debate.

/Personally I felt like Obama was trying to act "Presidential" and not sink to tit-for-tat level. That fails when your opponent is alpha-maleing it.
 
2012-10-04 03:04:07 PM  

FlashHarry: when romney said, "of course, i prefer private insurance," i wanted obama to retort, "well, you can afford it; most americans can't." that would've been a great "zinger." but he left it alone. why?


QFT.
 
2012-10-04 03:08:06 PM  

thrasherrr: mrshowrules: Unfortunately, you loss about 50% of undecided voters 10 words into the suggested Obama's reply. 90% of undecided voters would not have followed your response even though it should be painfully obvious to anyone who isn't completely brain-dead. Plus it sets up Romney for the line "I think I know more about business than you do".

I see your point. I suck at keeping things on a third grade level, and may be deluded in believing that a good orator could keep it understandable.

The Romney comeback is part of the attack. Once he claims superiority, the next part is "Then you can explain it to the voters right now. Go ahead." Romney loses the talking point, because he can't. His whole SB/Middle class rhetoric is stopped for the rest of the debate.

/Personally I felt like Obama was trying to act "Presidential" and not sink to tit-for-tat level. That fails when your opponent is alpha-maleing it.


Since I posted my reply to you I have changed my mind. Obama should continue to give intelligent answers like the one you suggested. He has no hope of winning a derp fight with Romney so he might as well act intelligent and credible. The debate reaction fades and than you are left with the substance of statements. If he's going to lose, he should do it with dignity. If he wins, he's going to need that credibility going forward.
 
2012-10-04 03:10:14 PM  
A black guy ain't been whipped that bad by a white dude since Rodney King.
 
2012-10-04 03:12:47 PM  

Poopspasm: I was fascinated by this poll last night (at least, I think it was this one). It looked like people who thought Romney won big were a much larger percentage than those who thought Obama won big, but when you factor in people who thought one of the two narrowly won, it was Obama out in front.

In other words, people who were looking for a dick waving contest thought Romney was on top, but people who listened thoughtfully and judiciously favored Obama.


No, people who listened thoughtfully and judicially understood nothing of substance was said by either party, but that Mittens was a more convincing liar.
 
2012-10-04 03:17:59 PM  

wantedbadass: Obama only got one good shot at that strategy with his quip about Mitt's plan being "oops, nevermind."


You know, and "Governor Romney's central economic plan calls for a $5 trillion tax cut -- on top of the extension of the Bush tax cuts -- that's another trillion dollars -- and $2 trillion in additional military spending that the military hasn't asked for. That's $8 trillion. How we pay for that, reduce the deficit, and make the investments that we need to make, without dumping those costs onto middle-class Americans, I think is one of the central questions of this campaign."

Obama, IMO, did a good job making the debate about ideas. Romney did a good job making it about bravado. I'm not so cynical as to think that people aren't even remotely interested in the content of the debate, and Romney had *no content whatsoever*. He won the press's contest of "who is more fun to talk about today!!?", but to assume that John Q Public is actually that shallow is ... pretty shiatty.
 
2012-10-04 03:22:37 PM  

jso2897: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

I'll be checking 538's Friday polls. We all said that if Romney didn't crap his pants onstage that the MSM would declare him the victor - and that has come to pass. Whether it effects anything that matters remains to be seen.


There are a lot of posts before yours that have that "in total denial about everything" thing going and there are plenty of posts after yours that have the same thing, but you pretty much win the award for summing up all the rambling excuses in one post.

You are out of your ever living mind if you think for even half a second that the media was rushing to declare Romney the winner just like "you predicted". Obama had a melt down and Romney did very well, that's all there is to it. It's not because of the 'bad' moderator, or because the all mighty chosen one was 'confused' by the 'lies'.

I mean listen to yourselves... really... "Obama couldn't handle it because Romney was telling so many lies..."

You're really going to claim that Obama, whom you insist is just so smart, lost... because of that?

Buy a clue, Romney won because he did a better job than Obama and the media will always come to the defense of Obama by the way... So the very idea that they were there to help Romney is just... Wow... You really believe that?
 
2012-10-04 03:26:29 PM  

Propain_az: Doc Daneeka: Reposting what I wrote in the Lehrer thread.


Have no idea why people think Romney "won" the debate. He just repeated the same detail-free platitudes that have been the essence of his entire campaign.

-"My plan is to put people back to work."
-"I'm going to cut taxes, renew the Bush tax cuts, increase defense spending, increase Medicare spending, and solve the deficit at the same time - and I'm somehow going to make this work by eliminating some tax deductions and loopholes, but I'm not going to tell you which ones."
-"I'm going to repeal and replace Obamacare, but I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to replace it with. But trust me, I have a plan."
-"I'm going to repeal and replace Dodd-Frank, but I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to replace it with. But trust me, I have a plan."

How can you win a presidential debate in which you don't give any answers or details about what you actually intend to do as president? His one specific policy proposal that I saw (cut funding for PBS) was about as silly and unserious as you can get. Amateur hour.

As far as I'm concerned, last night's debate just confirmed that Romney is the empty suit with no real ideas that we've seen all along. But I guess because he bullied the moderator and managed not to put his foot in his mouth for the first time in weeks, he "won." Whatever.

Let the rage flow.


(shrug) Yeah, "whatever" is really my go-to word whenever I want to signify a mood of white-hot, fulminating rage.

Tard.
 
2012-10-04 03:30:59 PM  

Danger Mouse: Without the teleprompter Obama is a bag of hot air. He looked like shiat last night. If Romeny was lying, then why didn't Obama call him on it? why did Obama stand there staring at his hands nodding like a little girl? If Obama was the smartest man in the room, why did he flub the entire debate? What a loser.

What cracks me up is all the libtards in Fark tripping overthemselve to make excuses and dismiss it.

Your emperor has no clothes.


Yeah man. He's dumb as a box of rocks. Romney trounced him and can just walk the rest of the way to the whitehouse.
 
2012-10-04 03:53:51 PM  

markie_farkie: f Obama had come out swinging and mopped the floor with Romney right out of the gate, and dropped the "47 Percent" bomb, he'd most likely swing a lot of voters Romney's way, out of sympathy.


markie_farkie: Last night's debate is playing out EXACTLY as Obama intended.


You seem to be possessed of a strange need to view Obama as infallible. It's utterly nonsensical to believe Obama would intentionally allow the dynamic of the race to swing so favorably for Romney.and breathe new life into his campaign.

Obama got beaten in the debate..Yes that's bad but it really doesn't necessitate your attempts to re-write reality to avoid having to accept that fact.
 
2012-10-04 03:56:42 PM  

BeesNuts: wantedbadass: Obama only got one good shot at that strategy with his quip about Mitt's plan being "oops, nevermind."

You know, and "Governor Romney's central economic plan calls for a $5 trillion tax cut -- on top of the extension of the Bush tax cuts -- that's another trillion dollars -- and $2 trillion in additional military spending that the military hasn't asked for. That's $8 trillion. How we pay for that, reduce the deficit, and make the investments that we need to make, without dumping those costs onto middle-class Americans, I think is one of the central questions of this campaign."

Obama, IMO, did a good job making the debate about ideas. Romney did a good job making it about bravado. I'm not so cynical as to think that people aren't even remotely interested in the content of the debate, and Romney had *no content whatsoever*. He won the press's contest of "who is more fun to talk about today!!?", but to assume that John Q Public is actually that shallow is ... pretty shiatty.


But it isn't wrong, unfortunately.
 
2012-10-04 04:09:20 PM  
I keep hearing people say Romney hogged the time.

www.zerohedge.com
 
2012-10-04 04:12:53 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: I keep hearing people say Romney hogged the time.

[www.zerohedge.com image 415x249]


He didn't hog time. He just didn't let Obama have the last word for the entire length of the debate. Romney insisted on getting the last word on every topic. And then he got to have the last word to close the debates. Obama's discussions were much more meaty and delivered in a pedagogical style.

I think you're going to see a short term boost for Romney followed by fact checking followed by an SNL skit that lambasts the debate followed by no change in the polls.
 
2012-10-04 04:17:07 PM  

randomjsa: There are a lot of posts before yours that have that "in total denial about everything" thing going


Speaking of "in total denial about everything"...

There are 8 battleground states. FL, OH, NC, VA, CO, IA, NV and NH. There were 12, but four are pretty much solidly Obama's now.

FL (29 EV's): Obama +2
OH (18 EV's): Obama +7
NC (15 EV's): Romney +1
VA (13 EV's): Obama +2
CO (9 EV's): Obama +3
IA (6 EV's): Obama +4
NV (6 EV's): Obama +5
NH (4 EV's): Obama +9

Obama is sitting at 247 EV's outside of these states.
Romney is sitting at 191 EV's outside of these states.
270 votes wins.

Obama needs 23 votes.
Romney needs 79 votes.

Romney cannot win without winning Florida.

No Republican candidate has ever won while losing Ohio.

Obama could take Ohio and Nevada and call it a day.
 
2012-10-04 04:30:17 PM  

Lost Thought 00: JerseyTim: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

I don't think it's about that. Mitt base is now newly energized. There were stories about donors getting cold feet and now they'll come back aboard again. This election isn't going to be about undecideds. It's going to be about turnout. Mitt went a long way last night to helping his election day turnout.

Similarly, I'll bet Obama's donations have completely dried up. He's going to have to spend valuable campaign time doing fundraisers instead


On the contrary, I personally donated to Obama's campaign last night.. because I was like "Oh shiat we're going to need to fight harder"
 
2012-10-04 04:30:26 PM  

Amos Quito: vernonFL: I agree that Romney "won" because he seemed like a normal human. Obama didn't seem his best


He was drugged


/it's a conspiracy


Actually, I have no reason to believe Romney was NOT on some sort of medication. No human being can give a fake smile for that long.
 
2012-10-04 04:37:20 PM  

FlashHarry: true - although romney threw a lot of hardcore rightist GOP dogma under the bus. he sounded quite "moderate" on taxes and healthcare. of course he was lying, but still - isn't that going to piss off the base?


Does it matter? Its not like diehard republicans are suddenly going to vote for Obama. Mitt Romney is brilliant to realize this.
 
2012-10-04 04:56:10 PM  

Cletus C.: Obama didn't seem to give a fark so why should I?


Because you've obviously never given a f*ck?

Source: Every post you've ever written.
 
2012-10-04 05:06:44 PM  

coeyagi: Cletus C.: Obama didn't seem to give a fark so why should I?

Because you've obviously never given a f*ck?

Source: Every post you've ever written.


I didn't even need to watch the debate. All I needed to know abut how it went I learned from your post.
 
2012-10-04 05:32:05 PM  

nyseattitude: Like him or not, Obama & Co are articulate, intelligent and highly strategic. Obama may have just "rope-a-doped" Romney. It's the fight you need to win, not the round.


The problem with your boxing analogy is you're acting as if it is just a three round contest. Think of the debates as rounds 10-12 of a fifteen round marathon battle. Going into the tenth, Obama was already well up on points with Romney fading but last night Obama left his chin open and got tagged.

To claim that was all part of the strategy is foolish, because the main effect was to give Romney and his supporters renewed hope that they can still land the knockout blow they need.
 
2012-10-04 06:04:25 PM  

The Numbers: To claim that was all part of the strategy is foolish, because the main effect was to give Romney and his supporters renewed hope that they can still land the knockout blow they need.


I think Obama played it very conservative last night, because he could afford to. People that think Obama is going to behave the same way in the next two debates aren't very good students of his campaigning history. Americans have the memory capacity of a goldfish, and the only thing that they're going to remember from this debate is that Romney wants to defund PBS and Jim Lehrer doesn't belong being a moderator anymore.
 
2012-10-04 06:21:09 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Reposting what I wrote in the Lehrer thread.


Have no idea why people think Romney "won" the debate. He just repeated the same detail-free platitudes that have been the essence of his entire campaign.

-"My plan is to put people back to work."
-"I'm going to cut taxes, renew the Bush tax cuts, increase defense spending, increase Medicare spending, and solve the deficit at the same time - and I'm somehow going to make this work by eliminating some tax deductions and loopholes, but I'm not going to tell you which ones."
-"I'm going to repeal and replace Obamacare, but I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to replace it with. But trust me, I have a plan."
-"I'm going to repeal and replace Dodd-Frank, but I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to replace it with. But trust me, I have a plan."

How can you win a presidential debate in which you don't give any answers or details about what you actually intend to do as president? His one specific policy proposal that I saw (cut funding for PBS) was about as silly and unserious as you can get. Amateur hour.

As far as I'm concerned, last night's debate just confirmed that Romney is the empty suit with no real ideas that we've seen all along. But I guess because he bullied the moderator and managed not to put his foot in his mouth for the first time in weeks, he "won." Whatever.


THIS ^^^

Is the best response you can expect from your typical libtard. You can't handle, nor admit, that your guy simply got his ass handed to him.

/not serious....I agree with you on all counts     
 
2012-10-04 09:45:16 PM  

You Cant Explain That: Is the best response you can expect from your typical libtard. You can't handle, nor admit, that your guy simply got his ass handed to him.


This is ironic, considering your name. But define to me why exactly, without using platitudes, why Obama "got his ass handed to him".

He didn't have any gaffes, he didn't get tripped up. He didn't snap, or look at his watch or yawn. Explain it to me, please.
 
2012-10-04 09:46:12 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: I keep hearing people say Romney hogged the time.


Funny, I haven't heard that straw man once.
 
2012-10-04 11:11:38 PM  
Watched the debate, was surprised how well Romney did. I would definitely say, if I knew nothing else, I would have said he won.

Then again, I've been listening to Romney for the past year, and not a single thing came out of his mouth that didn't carry a mental voice-over of "and please don't fact-check this."

The man said a lot of things that sounded really good, but his entire history has been about saying things people want to hear, even if it is in complete contradiction to what he said to a different group of people the day before.
 
2012-10-05 03:21:39 AM  

mpirooz: You Cant Explain That: Is the best response you can expect from your typical libtard. You can't handle, nor admit, that your guy simply got his ass handed to him.

This is ironic, considering your name. But define to me why exactly, without using platitudes, why Obama "got his ass handed to him".

He didn't have any gaffes, he didn't get tripped up. He didn't snap, or look at his watch or yawn. Explain it to me, please.


You missed the last line in my post
 
2012-10-05 03:56:57 AM  

cman: markie_farkie: 'Winning' the Talking Out Your Ass and Disavowing Everything Spoken on the Campaign Trail categories isn't 'Winning'.

What everyone saw was a glimpse of classic Bain Mitt... The oily, Say Anything guy who relies on his overinflated self-worth and utter lack of integrity to close a deal.

Perception is reality

JFK and Nixon had the first televised Presidential debate. Nixon mopped the floor with JFK, but because of Nixon being ill, JFK was seen as the real winner.

A lot of times it does not matter what is said, just how its said.


Yeah Nixon had a five o'clock shadow and was sweating bullets. Tragically, it's all about perception. Or maybe not tragically - I hate to think what Nixon would have done about missiles in Cuba if he was president. I suspect it may have been nuke first and ask questions later.
 
2012-10-05 04:00:45 AM  

Sleeping Monkey: Bush lost his 2004 debates in every way possible, but still got four more years to blame on Obama.


While that may be true, last night's debate made Romney look dynamic and positive in many people's eyes. It makes it just that little bit more likely that Romney can turn things around and win the election. It's not necessary to be the best candidate to win an election - you just have to be perceived to be the best candidate.
 
2012-10-05 04:01:59 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: BooBoo23: Seemed to me that Obama was simply baffled by the amount of bullshiat coming from the other side of the stage.

I don't think that anyone on the Obama campaign ever seriously contemplated that Romney would just ignore reality and substitute his own delusions.


Why not? He's been doing that for his whole campaign so far, and his supporters have been lapping it up.
 
2012-10-05 04:04:36 AM  

Lost Thought 00: If Obama gets beaten like a rented mule by a milquetoast idiot like Romney, how can we trust him to back down Putin and China?


Believe me Romney is no milquetoast. He is someone who strapped the family pet to the roof of his car, He is someone who likes firing people. He's a cowboy and I worry that his threat to invade Iran is not just electioneering.
 
2012-10-05 08:24:10 AM  

bdub77: I think you're going to see a short term boost for Romney followed by fact checking followed by an SNL skit that lambasts the debate followed by no change in the polls.


ROMNEY WINS!

/Every debate is worse than the last because of this needless "who won" bullshiat.
 
2012-10-05 06:04:46 PM  

You Cant Explain That: mpirooz: You Cant Explain That: Is the best response you can expect from your typical libtard. You can't handle, nor admit, that your guy simply got his ass handed to him.

This is ironic, considering your name. But define to me why exactly, without using platitudes, why Obama "got his ass handed to him".

He didn't have any gaffes, he didn't get tripped up. He didn't snap, or look at his watch or yawn. Explain it to me, please.

You missed the last line in my post


Dagnammit. I'm sorry.
 
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