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(CNN)   CNN Poll: Romney wins debate by big margin   (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 396
    More: Obvious, ORC International, Republican nominee  
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3010 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Oct 2012 at 10:06 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-04 12:21:16 PM  

netcentric: Romney wins debate as Obama falls flat
Romney brought a chainsaw...
A grown-up has shown up...

/the O's smirk didn't work


Troll or not:

The O's smirk???!??!?

No, Romney was the one with the smarmy, slimy, fake, used-car-salesman smirk all night long.
 
2012-10-04 12:21:52 PM  

Poopspasm: people who listened thoughtfully and judiciously favored Obama.


Welp, that's it. Obama's farked.
 
2012-10-04 12:22:22 PM  

mrshowrules: tooeasy: I hear people asking 'when have debates ever mattered?' Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered. They mattered in 1960, too. Generally, when it's really close, they matter

/Romney's bar, as is always the case when going against an unpopular (>50% approval rating) incumbent, is not to seem 'unacceptable'. he's still behind, but it's going to be close

That looks wrong.


he's right around 50%, but not consistently well clear of it. or are you arguing that obama is a popular incumbent?
 
2012-10-04 12:22:22 PM  
Honestly, I thought it was a draw. Romney did much better than I expected him to, but I found his pushiness to be overbearing. His absolute need to be last (even when it wasn't his turn) was frankly a turn-off.

I wasn't going to vote for him anyway, so no matter.

We watched it on CNN, and I found I spent most of my time watching the "undecided voter opinion" lines running at the bottom of the screen. The bar for "men" went up a lot of the time when Romney spoke, and the bar for "women" went up when the President spoke. The only exceptions were when either candidate talked about education (both lines tended to go up), and when either talked about possible military intervention (both lines went down).

The other thing I found interesting was when either of the candidates went negative, both lines went not only back to neutral, but went seriously negative. I think people have had enough of the "other guy bad!!!!1!" stuff, and want to hear more about what each candidate is *for*... and not just a non-specific answer like "Freedom!!!!" or "Jobs!!!"
 
2012-10-04 12:23:45 PM  
 
2012-10-04 12:24:24 PM  

Brandyelf: Honestly, I thought it was a draw. Romney did much better than I expected him to, but I found his pushiness to be overbearing. His absolute need to be last (even when it wasn't his turn) was frankly a turn-off.

I wasn't going to vote for him anyway, so no matter.

We watched it on CNN, and I found I spent most of my time watching the "undecided voter opinion" lines running at the bottom of the screen. The bar for "men" went up a lot of the time when Romney spoke, and the bar for "women" went up when the President spoke. The only exceptions were when either candidate talked about education (both lines tended to go up), and when either talked about possible military intervention (both lines went down).

The other thing I found interesting was when either of the candidates went negative, both lines went not only back to neutral, but went seriously negative. I think people have had enough of the "other guy bad!!!!1!" stuff, and want to hear more about what each candidate is *for*... and not just a non-specific answer like "Freedom!!!!" or "Jobs!!!"



Yea I don't get it either, but then there was at least one debate McCain won. I agree with you, Mitt came off as a jerk and Obama just did what he does. It was very similar to a debate he had with Clinton.
 
2012-10-04 12:25:56 PM  

netcentric: A grown-up has shown up...


Are you calling Obama "boy"?

Another story related by Martin Luther King, Jr. was that once the car his father was driving was stopped by a police officer, and the officer addressed the senior King as "boy". King pointed to his son, saying "This is a boy, I'm a man; until you call me one, I will not listen to you."
 
2012-10-04 12:26:24 PM  

markie_farkie: Romney lied 27 times in 38 minutes

Even the former record-holder, used car salesman Earl Schmittenhauer from Dongola IL, was impressed with that performance.


I ain't even mad. That's amazing.
 
2012-10-04 12:26:30 PM  

quid: cry more guys, it's music


Romney is still down by a lot with under a month to go. I wouldn't start planning the victory parade just yet.
 
2012-10-04 12:26:38 PM  

tooeasy: neither side has over 50%, and the polls are within the margin of error.


The nationwide polls that don't actually matter, yes. Electoral college...not so much.

There's 8 battleground states, and Obama is winning in 7 of them.
 
2012-10-04 12:27:12 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: mrshowrules: CPennypacker: I think Obama was caught so off guard by Mitt basically changing half his policies on live television that he didn't know what to say.

True. I thought the "nevermind" line was good. Are some Conservatives going to be pissed that Romney is softening his stance or is it a "wink wink" moment because they know he is just saying what it takes to get elected.

Obama should have just come out and called him a liar. No one else is gonna do it for him...certainly not the moderator.


The President could have won the whole night simply by saying "As a businessman, I am sure Mr Romney is aware that small business income taxes are taken only from profits. Profits are calculated only after all employees are paid. I would like Mr Romney to explain how altering taxes on a pool of money that by definition does not include wages affects the ability of small businesses to employ people. "

/But Obama didn't, so he lost
 
2012-10-04 12:28:10 PM  

tooeasy: mrshowrules: tooeasy: I hear people asking 'when have debates ever mattered?' Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered. They mattered in 1960, too. Generally, when it's really close, they matter

/Romney's bar, as is always the case when going against an unpopular (>50% approval rating) incumbent, is not to seem 'unacceptable'. he's still behind, but it's going to be close

That looks wrong.

he's right around 50%, but not consistently well clear of it. or are you arguing that obama is a popular incumbent?


check what I highlighted. unpopular means less than 50% approval not more than 50% approval regardless of who or what you are talking about.
 
2012-10-04 12:28:54 PM  

SkinnyHead: This looks to be the biggest margin of victory in presidential debate history. Total domination.


What's the metric in this competition?
Kicks in the nutbag? What?
 
2012-10-04 12:29:33 PM  

FlashHarry: CNN's internals (pdf)

if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50. hardly obama-friendly in the first place.

 
2012-10-04 12:29:47 PM  

SkinnyHead: This looks to be the biggest margin of victory in presidential debate history. Total domination.


Except for the first Bush-Kerry debate.
 
2012-10-04 12:30:04 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Quantify "won".

I can't even tell what the victory condition for these debates are.


Our mixed household agree that you only "win" political debates when you get elected.
 
2012-10-04 12:30:37 PM  

FlashHarry: CNN's internals (pdf)

if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50. hardly obama-friendly in the first place.


I figured their sample pool was going to be murky, and it's really small too. What was it? 430 telephone interviews? Might as well said 420.
 
2012-10-04 12:30:50 PM  

Peter_B_Risen: I think the main thing that we learned from last nights debate (and debate thread) is that there are only about 20 Republicans left on Fark.

From 2003-2008, Fark was pretty even in the politics thread. Now it's mostly just a bunch of people agreeing with each other and seeing who can win the coveted "Most Liberal Farker" award.


Oh, they're still lurking. But we just had to beat them down with the ugly stick because most of them are batshiat crazy tea baggers arguing it was Clinton's fault for ruining the economy because of Glass-Steagle and all sorts of other nonsense.

What I see is a Republican party crashing in flames with all its stupidity. No one is buying their gimmicks of tax cuts for the rich and opposing deficit spending after they've done so much to fark this country up. This community just reflects that national mood.
 
2012-10-04 12:31:00 PM  
 
2012-10-04 12:31:04 PM  
LasersHurt: It's almost as if we're now AFTER the debate, when people CAN talk about the things that happened instead of speculation.

no no no, js34603 doesn't think you're supposed to absorb and analyze new information, but to simply hold on to preconceptions and live indefinitely in a fantasy world.
 
2012-10-04 12:34:22 PM  

mrshowrules: tooeasy: mrshowrules: tooeasy: I hear people asking 'when have debates ever mattered?' Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered. They mattered in 1960, too. Generally, when it's really close, they matter

/Romney's bar, as is always the case when going against an unpopular (>50% approval rating) incumbent, is not to seem 'unacceptable'. he's still behind, but it's going to be close

That looks wrong.

he's right around 50%, but not consistently well clear of it. or are you arguing that obama is a popular incumbent?

check what I highlighted. unpopular means less than 50% approval not more than 50% approval regardless of who or what you are talking about.


/mistyped
 
2012-10-04 12:36:35 PM  

elchip: Hobodeluxe: FlashHarry: CNN's internals (pdf)

if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50. hardly obama-friendly in the first place.

Late Update: We've dug in a little deeper on this, and there seems to be a straightforward non-nefarious explanation. It appears that where the subgroups within CNN's representative sample of 430 voters were too small to yield statistically valid conclusions about the subgroups themselves, CNN declined to publish those results simply because they were not reliable on their own. We're seeking confirmation from CNN, but this is the most likely explanation - one that is valid. -dk

Later Update: CNN provided us with the internals of the poll, and the demographics of the poll respondents are very much line with normal standards for randomized sampling. -dk


You know what I noticed? Farkers, that keep complaining about this poll or that poll not correctly set up or the results are not statistically significant, have no clue about market research, recruiting, or statistics.

But then again, what else is new?
 
2012-10-04 12:39:41 PM  
The only thing Romney did successfully last night was move more to the center, which everyone knew he would try to do. But it is all smoke and mirrors he is moderate when he needs to be moderate, conservative when he needs to be conservative, and even liberal when he needs to be liberal to win an election. He has no fixed political ideals so anything he says, while it may sound nice and maybe even be persuasive, is total BS.
 
2012-10-04 12:45:01 PM  

Diogenes: I think there are a whole lot of people on both sides that need to step back, get a grip, and get some perspective.


Master. *bows*
 
2012-10-04 12:46:05 PM  

hinten: SkinnyHead: This looks to be the biggest margin of victory in presidential debate history. Total domination.

What's the metric in this competition?
Kicks in the nutbag? What?


The CNN pdf gives polling results from prior debates, and no one has ever scored a 67% win before.

My favorite part was when Romney shot back at Obama: "I'm not in favor of a $5 trillion tax cut. That's not my plan. My plan is not to put in place any tax cut that will add to the deficit. That's point one. So you may keep referring to it as a $5 trillion tax cut, but that's not my plan," and then Obama looks down and says: "OK" Defeated.
 
2012-10-04 12:47:11 PM  

hinten: elchip: Hobodeluxe: FlashHarry: CNN's internals (pdf)

if their own information is correct, the entire group polled was southern, white and over 50. hardly obama-friendly in the first place.

Late Update: We've dug in a little deeper on this, and there seems to be a straightforward non-nefarious explanation. It appears that where the subgroups within CNN's representative sample of 430 voters were too small to yield statistically valid conclusions about the subgroups themselves, CNN declined to publish those results simply because they were not reliable on their own. We're seeking confirmation from CNN, but this is the most likely explanation - one that is valid. -dk

Later Update: CNN provided us with the internals of the poll, and the demographics of the poll respondents are very much line with normal standards for randomized sampling. -dk

You know what I noticed? Farkers, that keep complaining about this poll or that poll not correctly set up or the results are not statistically significant, have no clue about market research, recruiting, or statistics.

But then again, what else is new?


I actually pointed this out much earlier in this thread. Some Farkers don't read through the posts.
 
2012-10-04 12:48:41 PM  

James!: Did anyone change their vote?


is it too late to vote for Ron Paul? 

is 'no confidence' in our government an option?
 
2012-10-04 12:49:14 PM  

markie_farkie: Romney lied 27 times in 38 minutes

Even the former record-holder, used car salesman Earl Schmittenhauer from Dongola IL, was impressed with that performance.


For balance, is there an Obama analysis as well?
 
2012-10-04 12:49:27 PM  

utharda: I'm glad Mitt won the debate. It might give him something to cling to, on those cold winter nights, when he can't sleep and slowly begins to realize that he isn't a real person, just a hollow shell desperately seeking the approval of those around him. Haunted by his fathers disdain, unable to ever be popular enough, or rich enough to outrun the pain, maybe winning the debate will sustain him when he drops the bottle of jack and reaches for the revolver on the side table.....


I pity the man. I really do.


...are we thinking about the same guy? Cause I think you misunderstandimate the man.
 
2012-10-04 12:52:58 PM  

I drunk what: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

is it too late to vote for Ron Paul? 

is 'no confidence' in our government an option?



Sure, you can always vote for Ron Paul.
 
2012-10-04 12:54:09 PM  

This Looks Fun: markie_farkie: Romney lied 27 times in 38 minutes

Even the former record-holder, used car salesman Earl Schmittenhauer from Dongola IL, was impressed with that performance.

For balance, is there an Obama analysis as well?


He wasn't actually at the debate...An empty chair stood in for him.
 
2012-10-04 12:55:23 PM  

James!: I drunk what: James!: Did anyone change their vote?

is it too late to vote for Ron Paul? 

is 'no confidence' in our government an option?


Sure, you can always vote for Ron Paul.


then your answer is 'No'
 
2012-10-04 12:56:20 PM  

tooeasy: mrshowrules: tooeasy: mrshowrules: tooeasy: I hear people asking 'when have debates ever mattered?' Well, the last time it was this close going into the debates, in 1980 (Bush was up 11 points going into the debates), they mattered. They mattered in 1960, too. Generally, when it's really close, they matter

/Romney's bar, as is always the case when going against an unpopular (>50% approval rating) incumbent, is not to seem 'unacceptable'. he's still behind, but it's going to be close

That looks wrong.

he's right around 50%, but not consistently well clear of it. or are you arguing that obama is a popular incumbent?

check what I highlighted. unpopular means less than 50% approval not more than 50% approval regardless of who or what you are talking about.

/mistyped


Understandable - we are all under a lot of pressure. Nobody got hurt this time so that is what counts.
 
2012-10-04 12:58:00 PM  

netcentric: Romney wins debate as Obama falls flat
Romney brought a chainsaw...
A grown-up has shown up...

/the O's smirk didn't work


Who, Romney an adult?

You must be jesting.
 
2012-10-04 01:05:50 PM  

thrasherrr: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: mrshowrules: CPennypacker: I think Obama was caught so off guard by Mitt basically changing half his policies on live television that he didn't know what to say.

True. I thought the "nevermind" line was good. Are some Conservatives going to be pissed that Romney is softening his stance or is it a "wink wink" moment because they know he is just saying what it takes to get elected.

Obama should have just come out and called him a liar. No one else is gonna do it for him...certainly not the moderator.

The President could have won the whole night simply by saying "As a businessman, I am sure Mr Romney is aware that small business income taxes are taken only from profits. Profits are calculated only after all employees are paid. I would like Mr Romney to explain how altering taxes on a pool of money that by definition does not include wages affects the ability of small businesses to employ people. "

/But Obama didn't, so he lost


Unfortunately, you loss about 50% of undecided voters 10 words into the suggested Obama's reply. 90% of undecided voters would not have followed your response even though it should be painfully obvious to anyone who isn't completely brain-dead. Plus it sets up Romney for the line "I think I know more about business than you do".

Romney had a whole bunch of zingers ready for Obama. Perhaps Obama did poorly but it is possible that he could have set himself up to be completely hammered if he wasn't careful. I blame the audience for being idiots.
 
2012-10-04 01:10:11 PM  
I gotta tell ya, as a Republican patriot who usually gets all my information on the dark-colored president from Fox News, this accurate and non-patronizing CNN poll has me thinking maybe these guys aren't the Clinton News Network after all. I think I might just start watchin' me some CNN.
 
2012-10-04 01:14:58 PM  
Ha ha!

Ok, lets say he "won" the debate (lol). Romney ain't winning the Presidency.

If anyone would like to put money on it, I'd be more than happy to oblige.
 
2012-10-04 01:19:12 PM  

HellRaisingHoosier: Ha ha!

Ok, lets say he "won" the debate (lol). Romney ain't winning the Presidency.

If anyone would like to put money on it, I'd be more than happy to oblige.


How do you assume that?
 
2012-10-04 01:21:24 PM  

TommyDeuce: TommyDeuce: So are you voting for "Debate Mitt" or "Entire Rest of the Campaign Mitt"?

We're at a point where I almost expect to see Romney ask the audience to close their eyes and imagine the most perfect leader the United States could ever have. One that has all the qualities and none of the faults. Then he tells them that he will be that President, whatever it was they imagined.

/Also, while their eyes are closed, he'll swipe their 401(k)


Truth be told, I'm still undecided at the moment. If I were to base my vote on the debate, I'd certainly not cast it for the "I don't give a shiat if I'm elected... why am I even HERE" guy, and I actually saw Romney come out and express his own thoughts, as I said, but one debate does not a candidate make.

I still think that Romney is hiding his real ideas behind party lines, and he's trying to pander to the Republican base (that whole Constitution and Declaration of Independence bit, for example), and I thing he's a lot more practical and center-right than he lets on, but that remains to come out in full. The only real selling point he has for me is that he DID succeed in MA, where the Congress is always about 90% Dem, and managed to get things done.

Obama disappointed. He was unfocused, ill-prepared and looked inconvenienced. He was the one throwing zingers and one-liners, and falling back to Demo-derp rather than making coherent arguments. A poor showing for an intelligent guy...

Still will probably go for Johnson... both parties still suck, and spend more time digging at each other than trying to fix what's broken... or even identify what's broken. If things trend in the race the way they leaned in the debates, though, I may change my vote yet.

again, just my thoughts...

//get your own thoughts... they're cheap, and occasionally come in handy.
 
2012-10-04 01:24:34 PM  
Eh, I thought Obama's behavior was fine. Professional, collected, kept to the issues and didn't try to openly dog the opposition. It was what I would hope would come out of a sitting president. He was trying to explain his positions. To contrast, Romney was trying to explain how he doesn't have any useful plan for anything. Good debate.
 
2012-10-04 01:24:40 PM  

RockChalkH1N1: HellRaisingHoosier: Ha ha!

Ok, lets say he "won" the debate (lol). Romney ain't winning the Presidency.

If anyone would like to put money on it, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

How do you assume that?


I'll play. The absolute maximum polling bump Romney gets is 3 points (based on previous first debates). He needs about 5 point bounce in key battleground states.

I personally predict a 2 point bounce that will fade before the election.
 
2012-10-04 01:32:23 PM  

mrshowrules: RockChalkH1N1: HellRaisingHoosier: Ha ha!

Ok, lets say he "won" the debate (lol). Romney ain't winning the Presidency.

If anyone would like to put money on it, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

How do you assume that?

I'll play. The absolute maximum polling bump Romney gets is 3 points (based on previous first debates). He needs about 5 point bounce in key battleground states.

I personally predict a 2 point bounce that will fade before the election.


You know what I find funny, is that Mitt Romney and his campaign of clowns has done nothing but screw up again and again over the last few months. Seriously screw up, like "47% of Americans think they are victims, and that they're owed food and medical care" sort of screw up. Months, one thing after another. Then, he does one thing without pissing someone off or marginalizing an entire group of people, and the troll brigade is all "Woo hoo! Winner!".

So yeah. The trolls can spin "Our guy didn't bring it last night, we admit that" as LIBURUL BUTTHURT LOL!!!!1!!! all they like, but the truth of the matter is, it was one event. One event where their candidate didn't throw up on his shoes or write off half the population. So.... yay?
 
2012-10-04 01:37:06 PM  

Brandyelf: You know what I find funny, is that Mitt Romney and his campaign of clowns has done nothing but screw up again and again over the last few months. Seriously screw up, like "47% of Americans think they are victims, and that they're owed food and medical care" sort of screw up. Months, one thing after another. Then, he does one thing without pissing someone off or marginalizing an entire group of people, and the troll brigade is all "Woo hoo! Winner!".


I'd love it if Rmoney went and said/did something incredibly stupid today, less than 24 hours after the debate.

/Don't say it can't happen
//I'd give it a 47% chance
 
2012-10-04 01:46:22 PM  

born_yesterday: Brandyelf: You know what I find funny, is that Mitt Romney and his campaign of clowns has done nothing but screw up again and again over the last few months. Seriously screw up, like "47% of Americans think they are victims, and that they're owed food and medical care" sort of screw up. Months, one thing after another. Then, he does one thing without pissing someone off or marginalizing an entire group of people, and the troll brigade is all "Woo hoo! Winner!".

I'd love it if Rmoney went and said/did something incredibly stupid today, less than 24 hours after the debate.

/Don't say it can't happen
//I'd give it a 47% chance


Seeing as he did a 180 degree turn on his platform, it would be hilarious if Ryan said something pissy.
 
2012-10-04 01:54:25 PM  
Mitt gains 2 points. Sounded good and came off better even though he was lying through his teeth.
 
2012-10-04 01:54:32 PM  
Can someone sum up the tax cuts Romney says Obama is making up?


Went to see Obama speak in Denver this morning, it was a fun experience!
 
2012-10-04 02:00:33 PM  

jst3p: Went to see Obama speak in Denver this morning, it was a fun experience!


Group therapy?
 
2012-10-04 02:05:48 PM  

Cletus C.: jst3p: Went to see Obama speak in Denver this morning, it was a fun experience!

Group therapy?


Mor like a think tank regarding continuing to undo the damage from the previous adminstration.
 
2012-10-04 02:11:31 PM  

RockChalkH1N1: HellRaisingHoosier: Ha ha!

Ok, lets say he "won" the debate (lol). Romney ain't winning the Presidency.

If anyone would like to put money on it, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

How do you assume that?



Mitt Romney would need to pick up ALL the States that Sen. McCain won in 2008, as well as flip:

-North Carolina
-Florida
-Ohio
-Colorado
-Nevada
-Virginia
-Iowa-
-Indiana
-Ohio
-Colorado
-Nevada

Almost all of which are polling safely .... AND Florida is leaning towards Obama.


It's farking over already!
The only fight left is the U.S. Senate and whether or not the Democrats can hold it.
 
2012-10-04 02:12:21 PM  
Should we be surprised? Seriously, this change of Romney's talking points wasn't unanticipated folks. Hell his campaign TOLD YOU he was going to do this.

"Well, I think you hit a reset button for the fall campaign," Fehrnstrom responded (one of Mitt Romney's advisors). "Everything changes. It's almost like an Etch-A-Sketch. You can kind of shake it up and restart all of over again."
 
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