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(Team Coco)   "Who shot first: Han or Greedo?" and other questions that would have been better than Jim Lehrer's   (teamcoco.com) divider line 161
    More: Sad, Greedo, Jim Lehrer, Eisenhower, Skymall, soylent greens  
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12145 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Oct 2012 at 11:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-04 01:28:11 PM  

hasty ambush: MilesTeg: So this is really the DNC's (and its operatives) spin? The moderator sucked?

HAH!

That and altitude

Al Gore Blames Denver for Obama debate loss


Wow, Gore is not aging well.
 
2012-10-04 01:30:18 PM  
President Romney - Republican President Dwight Eisenhower famously warned of the "military-industrial complex." How would you transform it into a "military-industrial FUNplex?"

MILES for everyone. And you gotta wear the gear and your cars have sensors. If you cut someone off, someone can unload a clip of blanks on you.

Walk in to a cube farm, yell "Hey" and shoot whoever pops their head up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_Integrated_Laser_Engagement_Sys t em
 
2012-10-04 01:31:17 PM  

That Guy...From That Show!: timujin:This was as much of a shootout as if they'd both stood on the street at high noon. Greedo had his gun out and was just about to put one in Han's gut, but... Han shot first.
That's NOT a shootout no matter what time of day or location.

There isn't any "first" or "last" without a sequence of shooting going on.

If the police get into a gun battle with another group of people then a shootout happens and "who shot first" can be determined. If one side doesn't shoot then there isn't sequence of shooting going on and there isn't any "first".

And, actually, at this point I'm reminded of this


Sure there can. Let's look at another example. Two guys are in a race, they both start but one of them falls down halfway. Did the other guy make it to the finish line "first"?
 
2012-10-04 01:36:11 PM  

Harry Freakstorm: President Romney - Republican President Dwight Eisenhower famously warned of the "military-industrial complex." How would you transform it into a "military-industrial FUNplex?"

MILES for everyone. And you gotta wear the gear and your cars have sensors. If you cut someone off, someone can unload a clip of blanks on you.

Walk in to a cube farm, yell "Hey" and shoot whoever pops their head up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_Integrated_Laser_Engagement_Sys t em


You know what other MILES got shot in a cube farm?

mos.totalfilm.com

Miles Dyson, that's who.
 
2012-10-04 01:43:00 PM  

timujin: Sure there can. Let's look at another example. Two guys are in a race, they both start but one of them falls down halfway. Did the other guy make it to the finish line "first"?


Not if the guy who fell down doesn't get back up and finish the race. The guy who crosses the finish line IS the "winner" but he ISN'T "first". He can't be first unless someone else crosses the finish line after him.

This is not a difficult concept.
 
2012-10-04 01:44:35 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: JackieRabbit: But I also expect being hit with what must be something of a diplomatic crisis (Turkey attacking Syria) yesterday afternoon ate through quite a bit of his time and served as a distraction. .

oh yeah, because we have all learned how involved 0bama gets whenever there is a diplomatic crisis...

UN meeting? Go on The View instead of meeting world leaders.
Embassy Attacked, people killed on 9/11? Go on Letterman and say it was due to a movie...but those dead bodies are just "bumps in the road" for him.


You know how I know that you have absolutely no idea about what a president's day is like? Obama does more before 8am than you do in a week. Haven't you ever notice how the presidency visibly and rapidly ages every president. Do you not know that back stage on Letterman and The View there is a large team of people working and that during the commercial breaks, the president is working with these people? A president is lucky if his day is only 16 hours long. It's the hardest job in the world.
 
2012-10-04 01:45:14 PM  

Phoenix87ta: Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.

Han was a drug-smuggler. The Kessel Run is a smuggling route for the distribution of the illegal drug glitterstim. No amount of Greedo shooting first is going to make Han a good guy. At most, he's an anti-hero.

/pet peeve


This.
Han is not a good guy until later in the story. He is changed by the experiences of the film and chooses to join the rebellion(becomes good) at the end instead of just running off with the reward like he had, very vocally, planned on the whole time.

But only after he runs of with the reward first.
 
2012-10-04 01:47:33 PM  
cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz
"Barack! Just wait till I get you home!"
 
2012-10-04 01:49:54 PM  

JackieRabbit: Obama does more before 8am than you do in a week.


I'm impressed. That's a *LOT* of masturbation for one single morning.
 
2012-10-04 02:14:36 PM  
How do you sleep at night, you farktard?
 
2012-10-04 02:16:25 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.


Han wasn't a good guy when he first met Luke. He was a smuggler who worked for a galactic crime lord.
 
2012-10-04 02:18:55 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.

Han wasn't a good guy when he first met Luke. He was a smuggler who worked for a galactic crime lord.


TIL laws carry moral authority.

/the laws of the galactic empire at that.
 
2012-10-04 02:22:38 PM  

That Guy...From That Show!: timujin: Sure there can. Let's look at another example. Two guys are in a race, they both start but one of them falls down halfway. Did the other guy make it to the finish line "first"?

Not if the guy who fell down doesn't get back up and finish the race. The guy who crosses the finish line IS the "winner" but he ISN'T "first". He can't be first unless someone else crosses the finish line after him.

This is not a difficult concept.


You are stuck in semantic cement and ignoring how the word has been used throughout the history of the English language.
Whenever someone gets somewhere for the first time, they're there "first" regardless of who follows or if anyone else ever makes it there at all. When Sputnik went into orbit, "Ruskies first to space" was the headline on all of the newspapers. Same for anything else, be it swimming across the English Channel, reaching the South Pole, orsummiting Everest... every time the person is regaled as "first to _____" without anyone having to come in second.
 
2012-10-04 02:28:23 PM  

That Guy...From That Show!: timujin: Sure there can. Let's look at another example. Two guys are in a race, they both start but one of them falls down halfway. Did the other guy make it to the finish line "first"?

Not if the guy who fell down doesn't get back up and finish the race. The guy who crosses the finish line IS the "winner" but he ISN'T "first". He can't be first unless someone else crosses the finish line after him.

This is not a difficult concept.


So, if there's an award for "first place," no one gets it?
 
2012-10-04 02:39:18 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.

Han wasn't a good guy when he first met Luke. He was a smuggler who worked for a galactic crime lord.

TIL laws carry moral authority.

/the laws of the galactic empire at that.


What, you think Jabba the Hutt was a good guy?
 
2012-10-04 02:42:24 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.

Han wasn't a good guy when he first met Luke. He was a smuggler who worked for a galactic crime lord.

TIL laws carry moral authority.

/the laws of the galactic empire at that.

What, you think Jabba the Hutt was a good guy?


Wat
 
2012-10-04 02:42:39 PM  
JackieRabbit: Obama does more before 8am blah blah blah

Know how I know yer an idiot?

NOBODY, let me repeat that NOBODY in our government works hard (contractors excluded)
especially in the arena of those who are elected to something.
it's all smoke and mirrors
Go here, wear this, say this, do this, smile for them, look concerned, be rich.
you seriously think yer not creating american royalty?
I've seen geithner at work 1 time in the last year or so
and he was here for 20 minutes for a luncheon

I'm no fan of BJ bill, but he would at least come running with us every once in awhile
 
2012-10-04 02:47:51 PM  
Frankly, I'm fine with right now with having no countermeasures to Nazi vampires so long as we have sufficient allocations towards preventing the zombie apocalypse.

Also, according to ST6, Bin Laden shot first.
 
2012-10-04 02:49:48 PM  

timujin: You are stuck in semantic cement and ignoring how the word has been used throughout the history of the English language.
Whenever someone gets somewhere for the first time, they're there "first" regardless of who follows or if anyone else ever makes it there at all. When Sputnik went into orbit, "Ruskies first to space" was the headline on all of the newspapers. Same for anything else, be it swimming across the English Channel, reaching the South Pole, orsummiting Everest... every time the person is regaled as "first to _____" without anyone having to come in second.


Your new examples allow for others to come in second. If, for example, the russians had made it to space and immediately activated a doomsday device, then they would not have been FIRST. They would have been the ONLY.

This is why you can't find a headline in history like "JFK assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald first".

You WILL see the sort of "first" use you're talking about used purposefully by children and in government propaganda when they're trying to justify actions by making up imaginary future scenarios that make it "ok" for them to have done what they've done. So, you'll see things like "we attacked them first because we knew they were going to attack us first" and many people buy into that sort of argument that is based on things that are imagined.
 
2012-10-04 02:49:51 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.

Han wasn't a good guy when he first met Luke. He was a smuggler who worked for a galactic crime lord.

TIL laws carry moral authority.

/the laws of the galactic empire at that.

What, you think Jabba the Hutt was a good guy?

Wat


Han was working for Jabba, as I pointed out before. He took the job transporting Luke and Obi-Wan so he could pay Jabba back for the load of Jabba's cargo he had to jettison when the Imperials boarded the Falcon. Since you seem to think Han's defiance of the law (i.e. smuggling) was in the service of the greater good (after all, it was just "the laws of the galactic empire"), and Han was smuggling for Jabba, by extension, you are saying that Jabba was a good guy.
 
2012-10-04 02:50:17 PM  

ProfessorOhki: That Guy...From That Show!: timujin: Sure there can. Let's look at another example. Two guys are in a race, they both start but one of them falls down halfway. Did the other guy make it to the finish line "first"?

Not if the guy who fell down doesn't get back up and finish the race. The guy who crosses the finish line IS the "winner" but he ISN'T "first". He can't be first unless someone else crosses the finish line after him.

This is not a difficult concept.

So, if there's an award for "first place," no one gets it?


Ha! Trick question. You don't bury the survivors.

/Fool me once, won't get fooled again.
 
rka
2012-10-04 02:51:55 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: mark12A: HA-HA! Your O-Guy sucked so you got nothing left but to go after the moderator....

It is pretty pathetic. I only watched the middle third of he debate and thought Obama did decently enough. Surprised to see the universal reaction that Romney won this morning. Maybe it just seems like he won because he didn't look like three horned monster everyone was led to believe he is.


He's still campaigning to lead the current incarnation of the Republican party though right?

Maybe he doesn't have 3 horns himself but he seems to be just fine hanging around creatures with suspiciously knobby foreheads.
 
2012-10-04 03:00:24 PM  
Got a shot off first
 
2012-10-04 03:01:59 PM  
I visit the website for the AAAS Science magazine and this was sitting out there...

You've just been elected to your nation's highest office! In your inaugural address, announce the biggest challenge facing your country today and how you will use science to address it.

It was presented as an essay contest, but would have made for a stumper of a debate question. I don't think either of them know enough about science to do any more than say "I support science and research".


Bith Set Me Up: I've got another one:

Why is a raven like a writing desk?


Poe wrote on both of them? The cooking technique for each is the same (boil it with a rock, when the rock goes soft you can eat the raven or desk).
 
2012-10-04 03:03:27 PM  

ProfessorOhki: That Guy...From That Show!: timujin: Sure there can. Let's look at another example. Two guys are in a race, they both start but one of them falls down halfway. Did the other guy make it to the finish line "first"?

Not if the guy who fell down doesn't get back up and finish the race. The guy who crosses the finish line IS the "winner" but he ISN'T "first". He can't be first unless someone else crosses the finish line after him.

This is not a difficult concept.

So, if there's an award for "first place," no one gets it?

There's an award named "first place", so of course. Reaching the finish line first is a process where someone else crosses the finish line at a later point in time. Being first is part of a process. You can be first but not be first place.

Here is some information that will help those who are having issues understanding this.
NOUN: "person place or thing"
VERB: "describing an action, condition, or experience"
ADJECTIVE: "a word that describes a noun"
 
2012-10-04 03:05:39 PM  

That Guy...From That Show!: timujin: You are stuck in semantic cement and ignoring how the word has been used throughout the history of the English language.
Whenever someone gets somewhere for the first time, they're there "first" regardless of who follows or if anyone else ever makes it there at all. When Sputnik went into orbit, "Ruskies first to space" was the headline on all of the newspapers. Same for anything else, be it swimming across the English Channel, reaching the South Pole, orsummiting Everest... every time the person is regaled as "first to _____" without anyone having to come in second.

Your new examples allow for others to come in second. If, for example, the russians had made it to space and immediately activated a doomsday device, then they would not have been FIRST. They would have been the ONLY.

This is why you can't find a headline in history like "JFK assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald first".

You WILL see the sort of "first" use you're talking about used purposefully by children and in government propaganda when they're trying to justify actions by making up imaginary future scenarios that make it "ok" for them to have done what they've done. So, you'll see things like "we attacked them first because we knew they were going to attack us first" and many people buy into that sort of argument that is based on things that are imagined.


alrighty then, I'll go back to my original example... taking an object. You come home and find that Girl Scout cookies have been delivered. However, an entire box of Thin Mints is empty. "What happened? I really wanted some of those." you say to Mrs. From That Show. "Sorry," she replies, "I got to them first."

If I have a gun and you have a gun and we both go to shoot each other, but I shoot before you do, I am shooting first, regardless of whether or not that means you get a shot off.

What I'm getting at is that "first" doesn't require a "second", only the possibility of a second.
 
2012-10-04 03:08:06 PM  

That Guy...From That Show!: You WILL see the sort of "first" use you're talking about used purposefully by children and in government propaganda when they're trying to justify actions by making up imaginary future scenarios that make it "ok" for them to have done what they've done. So, you'll see things like "we attacked them first because we knew they were going to attack us first" and many people buy into that sort of argument that is based on things that are imagined.


And ironically, that's the sense in which Han shot first. He knew Greedo was going to shoot him, so he shot Greedo first.
 
2012-10-04 03:14:08 PM  
This thread is surreal. Political discussion interspersed with philosophy of star wars debates and an argument about grammatical semantics.
 
2012-10-04 03:15:22 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.

Han wasn't a good guy when he first met Luke. He was a smuggler who worked for a galactic crime lord.

TIL laws carry moral authority.

/the laws of the galactic empire at that.

What, you think Jabba the Hutt was a good guy?

Wat

Han was working for Jabba, as I pointed out before. He took the job transporting Luke and Obi-Wan so he could pay Jabba back for the load of Jabba's cargo he had to jettison when the Imperials boarded the Falcon. Since you seem to think Han's defiance of the law (i.e. smuggling) was in the service of the greater good (after all, it was just "the laws of the galactic empire"), and Han was smuggling for Jabba, by extension, you are saying that Jabba was a good guy.


So you're saying that if my boss is an asshole, I am too?

/ I am an asshole but I didn't think that was why.
 
2012-10-04 03:22:22 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.

Han wasn't a good guy when he first met Luke. He was a smuggler who worked for a galactic crime lord.

TIL laws carry moral authority.

/the laws of the galactic empire at that.

What, you think Jabba the Hutt was a good guy?

Wat

Han was working for Jabba, as I pointed out before. He took the job transporting Luke and Obi-Wan so he could pay Jabba back for the load of Jabba's cargo he had to jettison when the Imperials boarded the Falcon. Since you seem to think Han's defiance of the law (i.e. smuggling) was in the service of the greater good (after all, it was just "the laws of the galactic empire"), and Han was smuggling for Jabba, by extension, you are saying that Jabba was a good guy.

So you're saying that if my boss is an asshole, I am too?

/ I am an asshole but I didn't think that was why.


I'd say if you're running drugs for the Mafia, you're a pretty bad guy. And that's basically what Han was doing when Luke met him.
 
2012-10-04 03:27:38 PM  

That Guy...From That Show!: ProfessorOhki: That Guy...From That Show!: timujin: Sure there can. Let's look at another example. Two guys are in a race, they both start but one of them falls down halfway. Did the other guy make it to the finish line "first"?

Not if the guy who fell down doesn't get back up and finish the race. The guy who crosses the finish line IS the "winner" but he ISN'T "first". He can't be first unless someone else crosses the finish line after him.

This is not a difficult concept.

So, if there's an award for "first place," no one gets it?
There's an award named "first place", so of course. Reaching the finish line first is a process where someone else crosses the finish line at a later point in time. Being first is part of a process. You can be first but not be first place.

Here is some information that will help those who are having issues understanding this.
NOUN: "person place or thing"
VERB: "describing an action, condition, or experience"
ADJECTIVE: "a word that describes a noun"


But placing is "8 [transitive, intransitive] used to describe a person, a team, a horse, etc. finishing in a particular position in a race." You're saying that if only one person finishes the race, there's only one position and that with only one position, it has to be called the "only" position, not the "first" position.

So... if you run a race and everyone else drops out, you should be awarded "only place." If they don't have a trophy for that, I guess you're farked.
 
2012-10-04 03:37:19 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: HeartBurnKid: Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.

Han wasn't a good guy when he first met Luke. He was a smuggler who worked for a galactic crime lord.

TIL laws carry moral authority.

/the laws of the galactic empire at that.

What, you think Jabba the Hutt was a good guy?

Wat

Han was working for Jabba, as I pointed out before. He took the job transporting Luke and Obi-Wan so he could pay Jabba back for the load of Jabba's cargo he had to jettison when the Imperials boarded the Falcon. Since you seem to think Han's defiance of the law (i.e. smuggling) was in the service of the greater good (after all, it was just "the laws of the galactic empire"), and Han was smuggling for Jabba, by extension, you are saying that Jabba was a good guy.

So you're saying that if my boss is an asshole, I am too?

/ I am an asshole but I didn't think that was why.

I'd say if you're running drugs for the Mafia, you're a pretty bad guy. And that's basically what Han was doing when Luke met him.


Running drugs is morally positive, if anything.

And there you go with the boss thing again. Trickle down morality.

/didn't really intended to get into this debate, I have no notes prepared.
//"because he's a good guy" just really is the reason greedo shoots first. The special editions had to see the ratings board again and they were gonna give it pg -13 if a "hero" just shot somebody.
 
2012-10-04 03:47:12 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.


O RLY?
 
2012-10-04 03:49:33 PM  

dickfreckle: This thread never had a chance.


Kind of like the debate...
 
2012-10-04 03:52:53 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: //"because he's a good guy" just really is the reason greedo shoots first. The special editions had to see the ratings board again and they were gonna give it pg -13 if a "hero" just shot somebody.


I'm aware of the rating excuse. It's still a pretty dumb excuse, because, honestly, Star Wars should have been PG-13 in the first place. Movies like Star Wars and the Indiana Jones movies are the reason the PG-13 rating was invented, after all. PG doesn't mean the same thing that it did in the '70s. And having it PG-13 wouldn't have stopped Lucas from making bajillions off of toys and cartoon tie ins and what not; look at Avengers or Transformers or any other blockbuster in recent years.

But that's it in a nutshell. In the original movies, Han was a bad guy who becomes a good guy through his burgeoning friendship with Luke. There's a character arc, and a bit of moral ambiguity to it, which makes both Han and the movie more interesting. The new versions of it strip the whole thing out with a single scene change because of a vagary with MPAA ratings, and in the process make what was a rather straightforward scene into a ridiculous joke that completely kills any suspension of disbelief. And that's what pisses off so many people.
 
2012-10-04 03:59:50 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: //"because he's a good guy" just really is the reason greedo shoots first. The special editions had to see the ratings board again and they were gonna give it pg -13 if a "hero" just shot somebody.


and that's the thing, he didn't just shoot somebody, he shot somebody who had already drawn down on him, there was no need to have Greedo shoot
 
2012-10-04 04:04:52 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: Running drugs is morally positive, if anything.


If you don't run drugs, they get all flabby and out of shape.
 
2012-10-04 04:08:20 PM  

timujin: Holocaust Agnostic: //"because he's a good guy" just really is the reason greedo shoots first. The special editions had to see the ratings board again and they were gonna give it pg -13 if a "hero" just shot somebody.

and that's the thing, he didn't just shoot somebody, he shot somebody who had already drawn down on him, there was no need to have Greedo shoot


Hey man, don't tell us write the mpaa. I'm sure they are eager to hear your concerns.
 
2012-10-04 04:12:16 PM  
Obama's opening put me off. It was a presidential debate. Opening with the anniversary comment seemed a little too lovey-dovey for a presidential debate.

/Han shot first, fark you Spielberg
 
2012-10-04 04:17:41 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: timujin: Holocaust Agnostic: //"because he's a good guy" just really is the reason greedo shoots first. The special editions had to see the ratings board again and they were gonna give it pg -13 if a "hero" just shot somebody.

and that's the thing, he didn't just shoot somebody, he shot somebody who had already drawn down on him, there was no need to have Greedo shoot

Hey man, don't tell us write the mpaa. I'm sure they are eager to hear your concerns.


Yes, great idea, they have demonstrated over the years an impartial and unbiased decision making process that has included a concern for the opinions of the majority of Americans and not that of a few vocal hyperprudes. I will go and pen a letter immediately.
 
2012-10-04 04:37:29 PM  
First black president?
 
2012-10-04 04:50:49 PM  

ChuckyV: Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.
1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

10. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME.

11. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

12. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

13. Have a plan.

14. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

15. Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The visible target should be in FRONT of your gun.

16. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

17. Don't drop your guard.

18. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

19. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).

20. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

21. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

22. Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

23. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

24. Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

25. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4."

please see number 12

 
2012-10-04 04:55:25 PM  

HeartBurnKid: That Guy...From That Show!: You WILL see the sort of "first" use you're talking about used purposefully by children and in government propaganda when they're trying to justify actions by making up imaginary future scenarios that make it "ok" for them to have done what they've done. So, you'll see things like "we attacked them first because we knew they were going to attack us first" and many people buy into that sort of argument that is based on things that are imagined.

And ironically, that's the sense in which Han shot first. He knew Greedo was going to shoot him, so he shot Greedo first.


Correct, it's "first" from a childlike perspective.  It's not that they're dumb, they just aren't able to understand at an early stage in their mental capacity why it's impossible for Han to have shot first.
 
2012-10-04 05:05:13 PM  
Who shot first?

I don't know...

THIRD BASE
 
2012-10-04 05:13:52 PM  
www.badhaven.com

// Actual screenshot
// Hot
 
2012-10-04 05:26:24 PM  

Leeds: [www.badhaven.com image 630x300]

// Actual screenshot
// Hot


The principle of changing who shot first notwithstanding, that scene looked awful in the initial Special Edition. It was this terribly unnatural jerky motion to have Han dodge the blast. It's almost passable on the Blu-Ray, although they've adjusted the timing of the shots.
 
2012-10-04 05:31:59 PM  

NeoCortex42: It was this terribly unnatural jerky motion to have Han dodge the blast. It's almost passable on the Blu-Ray, although they've adjusted the timing of the shots.


At least Spielberg had the farking decency and humility to admit the walkie talkies were a mistake.
 
2012-10-04 06:08:38 PM  

Hoboclown: There was no shooting at all, both men were holding walkie-talkies.


This made me laugh.
 
2012-10-04 06:27:10 PM  

NeoCortex42: Leeds: [www.badhaven.com image 630x300]

// Actual screenshot
// Hot

The principle of changing who shot first notwithstanding, that scene looked awful in the initial Special Edition. It was this terribly unnatural jerky motion to have Han dodge the blast. It's almost passable on the Blu-Ray, although they've adjusted the timing of the shots.


In the Blu-ray Disc version, it appears Han shoots first (just slightly) and Greedo's shot is wide because he's pulling the trigger as a reflex.

In the original SE version, Han shoots a bit after Greedo, who misses because Han dodges/Greedo's an awful shot at point blank range.

So I do prefer the BD version. It's better than SE by far. However, not shooting at all is better.

And the best version is Adywan's Revisisted Edition. Why? Because Greedo blinks, and it looks kind of cool.

Oh, and the War in the Stars Grindhouse version is pretty badass.
 
2012-10-04 06:28:18 PM  
Q- "Who shot first: Han or Greedo?"

A- "Shut the fark up"
 
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