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(Team Coco)   "Who shot first: Han or Greedo?" and other questions that would have been better than Jim Lehrer's   (teamcoco.com) divider line 161
    More: Sad, Greedo, Jim Lehrer, Eisenhower, Skymall, soylent greens  
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12146 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Oct 2012 at 11:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-04 12:14:45 PM  

moothemagiccow: Governor Romney, what is the difference between a cyborg and an android?


"Let's not get personal, Jim."
 
2012-10-04 12:15:19 PM  
As an Obama supporter, I've gotta admit he looked bad last night. Not so much on substance, but people want to vote for a fighter. And if the president looks like he doesn't give a damn about his own re-election, why the hell should anyone else? Being cool is one thing. Acting so disinterested that you depress the turnout of your party's base more than all the voter ID laws combined is something else.

\hope the man will recover and get his mojo back for the next debate.
 
2012-10-04 12:15:58 PM  

MilesTeg: So this is really the DNC's (and its operatives) spin? The moderator sucked?

HAH!


Romney said some really good, believable stuff last night. The problem is that I don't think that he personally believes any of that. He's just saying what he can to save the last remaining scraps of his dying campaign.
 
2012-10-04 12:16:22 PM  

Enigmamf: Romney has been preparing for the debates non-stop for a month. Obama has been dealing with international crises. That Obama is off-form for his debate appearances is not surprising.

Debates are worthless media spectacles these days. Once upon a time, you didn't really know where a candidate stands on a given issue - but today, you do, from hundreds of stump speeches, dozens of policy papers, advisor selection, thousands of endorsements from interest groups. The thought that a debate can do anything to improve the electoral process is ludicrous and outdated.


You are correct. It's nothing more than intellectual football for politicos who want to see their team win.

People will hoot and holler over anything.
 
2012-10-04 12:17:23 PM  

moothemagiccow: They changed it so the scummy smuggler didn't shoot first, presumably because he's the good guy.


Which completely dumbs down the character. It's not like anyone was clamoring for that change.
 
2012-10-04 12:17:53 PM  

moothemagiccow: qorkfiend: I don't understand what the big deal is with the "Who shot first?" question.

Why is anyone surprised that a smuggler and outlaw, confronted in the scummiest spaceport in the galaxy by an enforcer for the most notorious gang boss in the galaxy, shot the enforcer?

They changed it so the scummy smuggler didn't shoot first, presumably because he's the good guy.


Which makes even less sense! Hutt enforcer and bounty hunter extraordinaire Greedo wasn't accurate enough to shoot the guy sitting across the farking table?
 
2012-10-04 12:18:18 PM  

jaybeezey: Enigmamf: Romney has been preparing for the debates non-stop for a month. Obama has been dealing with international crises. That Obama is off-form for his debate appearances is not surprising.

Debates are worthless media spectacles these days. Once upon a time, you didn't really know where a candidate stands on a given issue - but today, you do, from hundreds of stump speeches, dozens of policy papers, advisor selection, thousands of endorsements from interest groups. The thought that a debate can do anything to improve the electoral process is ludicrous and outdated.

You are correct. It's nothing more than intellectual football for politicos who want to see their team win.

People will hoot and holler over anything.


inevitably, the 'winner' is whoever you had already planned on voting for.
 
2012-10-04 12:19:23 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.


Says who? Oh and Han was not a good-guy
 
2012-10-04 12:20:11 PM  

moothemagiccow: Governor Romney, what is the difference between a cyborg and an android?


"I thought family was off limits! This interview is over!"
 
2012-10-04 12:20:36 PM  

qorkfiend: I don't understand what the big deal is with the "Who shot first?" question.

Why is anyone surprised that a smuggler and outlaw, confronted in the scummiest spaceport in the galaxy by an enforcer for the most notorious gang boss in the galaxy, shot the enforcer?


We're not surprised. Apparently George Lucas was and changed it to make it look like Han acted in self defense.
It redefines his entire character. He goes from bad ass to just an ass. It'd be like at the end of "To Kill A Mockingbird", if Atticus Finch, voted greatest hero ever, says "even n*ggers need a good defense."
 
2012-10-04 12:22:44 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.

Says who? Oh and Han was not a good-guy


No, no. It's clear from the set-up - meeting a self-proclaimed smuggler with a fast ship in a darkened corner of a bar in the most wretched hive of scum and villainy - that Han was the goodiest of goods.
 
2012-10-04 12:22:59 PM  

pute kisses like a man: jaybeezey: Enigmamf: Romney has been preparing for the debates non-stop for a month. Obama has been dealing with international crises. That Obama is off-form for his debate appearances is not surprising.

Debates are worthless media spectacles these days. Once upon a time, you didn't really know where a candidate stands on a given issue - but today, you do, from hundreds of stump speeches, dozens of policy papers, advisor selection, thousands of endorsements from interest groups. The thought that a debate can do anything to improve the electoral process is ludicrous and outdated.

You are correct. It's nothing more than intellectual football for politicos who want to see their team win.

People will hoot and holler over anything.

inevitably, the 'winner' is whoever you had already planned on voting for.


So, nobody won?
 
2012-10-04 12:23:10 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: There were questions being asked? And responses were given OTHER than Romney's?

Coulda fooled me. All I could hear was Rmoney's machine gun-paced "nuh uh, you" and "I know you are, but what am I?"


The moderator became completely useless when Romney went with his "I'm going to finish this segment. Obama got to speak first, so I want to speak last. I don't care if I'm going first next, I want to talk more."

From that point on, it was all downhill for Lehrer.
 
2012-10-04 12:24:18 PM  

stonicus: qorkfiend: I don't understand what the big deal is with the "Who shot first?" question.

Why is anyone surprised that a smuggler and outlaw, confronted in the scummiest spaceport in the galaxy by an enforcer for the most notorious gang boss in the galaxy, shot the enforcer?

We're not surprised. Apparently George Lucas was and changed it to make it look like Han acted in self defense.
It redefines his entire character. He goes from bad ass to just an ass. It'd be like at the end of "To Kill A Mockingbird", if Atticus Finch, voted greatest hero ever, says "even n*ggers need a good defense."


And, of course, my mind's eye can immediately picture Gregory Peck delivering that line...
 
2012-10-04 12:24:22 PM  

born_yesterday: hdhale: Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.

Greedo was a bounty hunter shooting at a stationary target at point blank range. If he shot first, Han would be dead. If he was wounded first, then it's far more plausible that he missed. Shooting first is permissible if someone has a gun on you, else how did Roy Rodgers disarm all those bad guys by shooting the gun out of their hand?

George Lucas would rather re-write old material than write new material for the same characters because he is an anal retentive man who can't get over the fact that his best work was over by the time "Return of the Jedi" was in the can. Fact is, even if he wrote new material for the original set of Star Wars characters (Leia, Han, Luke, the droids, Chewbacca, etc.) it might actually be better...but...then again it might not be, in which case it would hurt sales of the retreads and we can't have that.

End of lecture.

You're assuming Greedo's sensory perception was within human parameters. Did you see those big-ass fish eyes? For all we know, he was looking at the floor and the wall next to him while he was talking. The shot he fired first that hit the wall three feet from Han could have been the greatest warning trick shot he ever pulled off.


I know you are trying to help but...no.
 
2012-10-04 12:24:25 PM  

mark12A: HA-HA! Your O-Guy sucked so you got nothing left but to go after the moderator....


Okay subby, which questions did Jim ask that you didn't like?

I know that 0bama is used to questions from the press like "how awesome is it to be you?" but that isn't what a debate is about.

0bama's prep was going on The View, avoiding press conferences, only doing softball interviews (except for Univision), and everyone is surprised that when challenged on his record he folds like a house of cards.
 
2012-10-04 12:25:25 PM  

NeoCortex42: The My Little Pony Killer: There were questions being asked? And responses were given OTHER than Romney's?

Coulda fooled me. All I could hear was Rmoney's machine gun-paced "nuh uh, you" and "I know you are, but what am I?"

The moderator became completely useless when Romney went with his "I'm going to finish this segment. Obama got to speak first, so I want to speak last. I don't care if I'm going first next, I want to talk more."

From that point on, it was all downhill for Lehrer.


It was very strange; Lehrer is usually one of the better moderators. The success of this tactic suggests it will be used again; the other moderators will need to be wary.
 
2012-10-04 12:26:29 PM  

qorkfiend: No, no. It's clear from the set-up - meeting a self-proclaimed smuggler with a fast ship in a darkened corner of a bar in the most wretched hive of scum and villainy - that Han was the goodiest of goods.


He was just there to pass out Christian tracts.
 
2012-10-04 12:26:48 PM  
Wait, we are still beating the ole' Gree question? What the hell are we, Star Wars scholars?.
 
2012-10-04 12:28:53 PM  

NeoCortex42: The My Little Pony Killer: There were questions being asked? And responses were given OTHER than Romney's?

Coulda fooled me. All I could hear was Rmoney's machine gun-paced "nuh uh, you" and "I know you are, but what am I?"

The moderator became completely useless when Romney went with his "I'm going to finish this segment. Obama got to speak first, so I want to speak last. I don't care if I'm going first next, I want to talk more."

From that point on, it was all downhill for Lehrer.


It was bizarre to listen to without having the actual video in front of my face.
 
2012-10-04 12:29:23 PM  
I wasn't aware Lehrer actually asked questions. He was more like Chris Farley interviewing an actor about their latest movie.

"Remember that time you were running for President and you said you'd repeal Obamacare? That was really cool."
 
2012-10-04 12:30:16 PM  
Amazing name, Miles Teg.

Anyways Oliver Wendell Holmes was a disgusting human being. He's the first person to put any kind of restrictions on the Freedom of Speech. He was also strong believer in eugenics and forced sterilization, and whose only objection to the concept of genocide was that having other points of view is sometimes nice
 
2012-10-04 12:31:12 PM  

timujin: unlikely: "First" implies a chain of events.
Han didn't shoot _first_ because there were no other shots.
Han shot. Greedo didn't.

I've heard this argument before and it's just plain dumb. Let me give you an example. You and I are sitting on opposite sides of the table. I put down a hundred dollar bill between us and suggest a game. The rules to the game are simple, whoever grabs the Benjamin first gets to keep it.

Now, you're super fast with those hands and get there before I do. Were you "first"?

That's what happens in a shootout. If one guy shoots "first" the other guy doesn't necessarily get a chance, as in this case, to shoot at all.


Your analogy only works if both sides know it's a gunfight. Greedo was still in "talk like a pompous git" mode.

To make your story fit the scenario, it'd go like this:

We are both siting on opposite sides of the table. While you are busy making gunfighter analogies, I take a hundred dollar bill out of my pocket, set it on the table, pick it up and put it back in my pocket, and then say "by the way, whoever picks up the benjamin first gets it."
 
2012-10-04 12:33:37 PM  
President Obama - why wasn't investment in Gundam Mecha Suit technologies part of the initial economic stimulus?

"Because some kid would just steal it anyway."
 
2012-10-04 12:34:03 PM  

unlikely: timujin: unlikely: "First" implies a chain of events.
Han didn't shoot _first_ because there were no other shots.
Han shot. Greedo didn't.

I've heard this argument before and it's just plain dumb. Let me give you an example. You and I are sitting on opposite sides of the table. I put down a hundred dollar bill between us and suggest a game. The rules to the game are simple, whoever grabs the Benjamin first gets to keep it.

Now, you're super fast with those hands and get there before I do. Were you "first"?

That's what happens in a shootout. If one guy shoots "first" the other guy doesn't necessarily get a chance, as in this case, to shoot at all.

Your analogy only works if both sides know it's a gunfight. Greedo was still in "talk like a pompous git" mode.

To make your story fit the scenario, it'd go like this:

We are both siting on opposite sides of the table. While you are busy making gunfighter analogies, I take a hundred dollar bill out of my pocket, set it on the table, pick it up and put it back in my pocket, and then say "by the way, whoever picks up the benjamin first gets it."


Not at all, Greedo was definitely in on the game, he had his gun out and was ready to shoot Han. That's why Lucas was able to change the scene, Greedo's blaster was already in his lap. Han shot before Greedo got his own shot off, hence "first".
 
2012-10-04 12:37:24 PM  

qorkfiend: It was very strange; Lehrer is usually one of the better moderators. The success of this tactic suggests it will be used again; the other moderators will need to be wary.


I had such high hopes for Lehrer as moderator. I don't know what the hell happened.

Of the remaining debates, I am most looking forward to seeing the final one on foreign policy, moderated by Bob Schieffer. If the moderator doesn't do his job there, I'll be shocked. Also, if Obama can't win a foreign policy debate against Mitt Romney, it will be obvious that he just doesn't give a shiat about debating.
 
2012-10-04 12:37:36 PM  

CygnusDarius: Wait, we are still beating the ole' Gree question? What the hell are we, Star Wars scholars?.


It is the entertainment Pearl Harbor of our generation. A deed so foul, that it will live forever in infamy.
 
2012-10-04 12:37:43 PM  
Who shot JR?
 
2012-10-04 12:42:05 PM  

NeoCortex42: I had such high hopes for Lehrer as moderator. I don't know what the hell happened.


Looks like he's got one foot in the grave
 
2012-10-04 12:48:57 PM  

Fark Rye For Many Whores: Who shot JR?


Bah Gawd, King!
 
2012-10-04 12:50:59 PM  

mark12A: HA-HA! Your O-Guy sucked so you got nothing left but to go after the moderator....


It is pretty pathetic. I only watched the middle third of he debate and thought Obama did decently enough. Surprised to see the universal reaction that Romney won this morning. Maybe it just seems like he won because he didn't look like three horned monster everyone was led to believe he is.
 
2012-10-04 12:54:24 PM  

pute kisses like a man: jaybeezey: Enigmamf: Romney has been preparing for the debates non-stop for a month. Obama has been dealing with international crises. That Obama is off-form for his debate appearances is not surprising.

Debates are worthless media spectacles these days. Once upon a time, you didn't really know where a candidate stands on a given issue - but today, you do, from hundreds of stump speeches, dozens of policy papers, advisor selection, thousands of endorsements from interest groups. The thought that a debate can do anything to improve the electoral process is ludicrous and outdated.

You are correct. It's nothing more than intellectual football for politicos who want to see their team win.

People will hoot and holler over anything.

inevitably, the 'winner' is whoever you had already planned on voting for.


Your statement certainly explains why numerous supporters of President Obama have stated that Romney "won" the debate.
 
2012-10-04 12:55:05 PM  

timujin: unlikely: "First" implies a chain of events.
Han didn't shoot _first_ because there were no other shots.
Han shot. Greedo didn't.

I've heard this argument before and it's just plain dumb. Let me give you an example. You and I are sitting on opposite sides of the table. I put down a hundred dollar bill between us and suggest a game. The rules to the game are simple, whoever grabs the Benjamin first gets to keep it.

Now, you're super fast with those hands and get there before I do. Were you "first"?

That's what happens in a shootout. If one guy shoots "first" the other guy doesn't necessarily get a chance, as in this case, to shoot at all.


Then it wasn't a shootout now was it? A shootout requires a battle. Do you not understand the difference between being shot and that's all that happens vs being in a shootout?  One is an event and another is a sequence of events.
 
2012-10-04 12:59:16 PM  

That Guy...From That Show!: timujin: unlikely: "First" implies a chain of events.
Han didn't shoot _first_ because there were no other shots.
Han shot. Greedo didn't.

I've heard this argument before and it's just plain dumb. Let me give you an example. You and I are sitting on opposite sides of the table. I put down a hundred dollar bill between us and suggest a game. The rules to the game are simple, whoever grabs the Benjamin first gets to keep it.

Now, you're super fast with those hands and get there before I do. Were you "first"?

That's what happens in a shootout. If one guy shoots "first" the other guy doesn't necessarily get a chance, as in this case, to shoot at all.

Then it wasn't a shootout now was it? A shootout requires a battle. Do you not understand the difference between being shot and that's all that happens vs being in a shootout? One is an event and another is a sequence of events.


This was as much of a shootout as if they'd both stood on the street at high noon. Greedo had his gun out and was just about to put one in Han's gut, but... Han shot first.
 
2012-10-04 01:01:42 PM  

peewinkle: Who?

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x282]


this
this is why i love fark
 
2012-10-04 01:03:01 PM  

Fark Rye For Many Whores: Who shot JR?


Kristin Shepard. Kristin was J. R.'s scheming sister-in-law and mistress, who shot him in a fit of anger. Welcome back from 1980. Reagan won the election, btw. Disco finished dying, but relax, dance music got better. ESPN owns all of professional sports in the US by proxy. We're still having problems with Iran. We have a couple of robots on Mars and a new space station, but we have to hitch a ride from the Soviets (who call themselves 'Russians" now, but they aren't fooling anyone) to get to it. Oh and...we're broke as a nation again. At least interest rates are really low. Sorry, still no flying cars, or artificial intelligence.
 
2012-10-04 01:06:17 PM  

hdhale: Fark Rye For Many Whores: Who shot JR?

Kristin Shepard. Kristin was J. R.'s scheming sister-in-law and mistress, who shot him in a fit of anger. Welcome back from 1980. Reagan won the election, btw. Disco finished dying, but relax, dance music got better. ESPN owns all of professional sports in the US by proxy. We're still having problems with Iran. We have a couple of robots on Mars and a new space station, but we have to hitch a ride from the Soviets (who call themselves 'Russians" now, but they aren't fooling anyone) to get to it. Oh and...we're broke as a nation again. At least interest rates are really low. Sorry, still no flying cars, or artificial intelligence.


OK, but mullets are still "in", right?
 
2012-10-04 01:10:40 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: Greedo shot first. Han was a good-guy. Good-guys don't do that.


Han was a drug-smuggler. The Kessel Run is a smuggling route for the distribution of the illegal drug glitterstim. No amount of Greedo shooting first is going to make Han a good guy. At most, he's an anti-hero.

/pet peeve
 
2012-10-04 01:12:08 PM  

The Name: Anyone getting a read yet on how Republican voters responded to the debate? Because Romney said a lot of things last night that would have gotten him burned at the stake in the GOP primary, e.g. "I'm not looking to cut massive taxes;" "the federal government has a role to play in getting local schools to do better."


So far, they seem to be largely ignoring the fact that he completely 180'd on a lot of his stances in favor of cheerleading his "win". Maybe they decided he was lying during the debates to score points--you know, ends justifying the means.
 
2012-10-04 01:13:45 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Surprised to see the universal reaction that Romney won this morning. Maybe it just seems like he won because he didn't look like three horned monster everyone was led to believe he is.


That's exactly the case. It's the same thing that happened with Palin. They don't expect him to compete, he just didn't make a fool of himself.
 
2012-10-04 01:14:15 PM  
I fear Romney might win.

There, I said it.
 
2012-10-04 01:14:55 PM  

blahpers: The Name: Anyone getting a read yet on how Republican voters responded to the debate? Because Romney said a lot of things last night that would have gotten him burned at the stake in the GOP primary, e.g. "I'm not looking to cut massive taxes;" "the federal government has a role to play in getting local schools to do better."

So far, they seem to be largely ignoring the fact that he completely 180'd on a lot of his stances in favor of cheerleading his "win". Maybe they decided he was lying during the debates to score points--you know, ends justifying the means.


Entirely possible.

"Romney contradicted many of his own statements last night, including many things that are core planks of the Republican platform."
"Who cares? He won!"
 
2012-10-04 01:16:47 PM  

Sass-O-Rev: I'm a big Obama fan, or as much as you would expect a person in rural NS to be, but I was disappointed by his appearance last night. He seemed really tentative; not at all what I was expecting.

That being said, I think these questions are terrific. I would love to see something like this in Jim's lineup. Shake it up a bit.


I didn't watch the debate. YouTube and ABC seemed to have a glitch in their internet stream. So I put on some music and fell asleep. My wife was able to get it on her iPad eventually and her estimation of Obama's performance echoes yours. She says he let Romney get away with things as if he didn't have an answer. Obama wasn't a very comfortable debater in 2008 and did much better in the sit-down debate. But I also expect being hit with what must be something of a diplomatic crisis (Turkey attacking Syria) yesterday afternoon ate through quite a bit of his time and served as a distraction. He'll have to d better than this next time, if he expects to maintain his lock on the election.
 
2012-10-04 01:18:43 PM  

blahpers: So far, they seem to be largely ignoring the fact that he completely 180'd on a lot of his stances in favor of cheerleading his "win".


1. Because what you say is a "fact" is not a "fact".
2. People do change viewpoints. 0bama did a 180 on his homophobic viewpoint on gay marriage.
 
2012-10-04 01:18:52 PM  

CygnusDarius: I fear Romney might win.

There, I said it.


Because of one lackluster debate? This wasn't exactly a "there you go again" moment.

/then again, neither was "there you go again"
 
2012-10-04 01:20:37 PM  

qorkfiend: blahpers: The Name: Anyone getting a read yet on how Republican voters responded to the debate? Because Romney said a lot of things last night that would have gotten him burned at the stake in the GOP primary, e.g. "I'm not looking to cut massive taxes;" "the federal government has a role to play in getting local schools to do better."

So far, they seem to be largely ignoring the fact that he completely 180'd on a lot of his stances in favor of cheerleading his "win". Maybe they decided he was lying during the debates to score points--you know, ends justifying the means.

Entirely possible.

"Romney contradicted many of his own statements last night, including many things that are core planks of the Republican platform."
"Who cares? He won!"


i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-04 01:21:33 PM  

JackieRabbit: But I also expect being hit with what must be something of a diplomatic crisis (Turkey attacking Syria) yesterday afternoon ate through quite a bit of his time and served as a distraction. .


oh yeah, because we have all learned how involved 0bama gets whenever there is a diplomatic crisis...

UN meeting? Go on The View instead of meeting world leaders.
Embassy Attacked, people killed on 9/11? Go on Letterman and say it was due to a movie...but those dead bodies are just "bumps in the road" for him.
 
2012-10-04 01:25:01 PM  
Iran continues with its nuclear program in defiance of the international community. Should American respond using "Commando" Schwarzenegger or "True Lies" Schwarzenegger?

True Lies Ahnold because I don't want to see him running out of the ocean in a Speedo.

Plus sexy Jamie Lee Curtis.
 
2012-10-04 01:25:21 PM  
timujin:This was as much of a shootout as if they'd both stood on the street at high noon. Greedo had his gun out and was just about to put one in Han's gut, but... Han shot first.
That's NOT a shootout no matter what time of day or location.

There isn't any "first" or "last" without a sequence of shooting going on. 

If the police get into a gun battle with another group of people then a shootout happens and "who shot first" can be determined. If one side doesn't shoot then there isn't sequence of shooting going on and there isn't any "first".

And, actually, at this point I'm reminded of this i30.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-04 01:27:38 PM  

CygnusDarius: I fear Romney might win.

There, I said it.


Why are you afraid? Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.... unless you are worried about loosing your obama phone and food stamps
 
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