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(Daily Mail)   Tonight's Presidential debate winner? Big Bird. Here come the memes   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 142
    More: Obvious, BigBird, Sesame Street, characters in Sesame Street, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Religious Fanaticism, WTF Mitt Romney  
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7098 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 04 Oct 2012 at 5:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-04 12:43:29 PM

Tax Boy: [i.imgur.com image 480x640]


WIN.
 
2012-10-04 12:47:45 PM

Raug the Dwarf: But the original article and my argument still hinge on being able to cut funding to PBS without much repercussion.


Depends on what you consider a repercussion.

If we cut public funding PBS will likely survive, but I doubt it would be anything like what it is today.

Remember, TLC used to be a funded by the government before it was privatized. Now they air crap like Toddlers & Tiaras, Extreme Couponing, 19 Kids and Counting, Long Island Medium, and Here Comes Honey Boo Boo.
 
2012-10-04 12:53:14 PM
So all of you want to save Big Birds job but no one else's? I think I got it. I mean you need to have something to watch at home while youre waiting for your unemployment to run out
 
2012-10-04 01:00:24 PM

Malacon: Raug the Dwarf: But the original article and my argument still hinge on being able to cut funding to PBS without much repercussion.

Depends on what you consider a repercussion.

If we cut public funding PBS will likely survive, but I doubt it would be anything like what it is today.

Remember, TLC used to be a funded by the government before it was privatized. Now they air crap like Toddlers & Tiaras, Extreme Couponing, 19 Kids and Counting, Long Island Medium, and Here Comes Honey Boo Boo.


That was 20 years ago. The station has to change programming to keep up with what people want to see. PBS doesn't still air most of the programming they did from 20 years ago either. Their shows have changed and adapted to new audiences just like any other TV station has.

Hell, I miss SquareOne. Used to watch that every day after school and it's been off PBS since '94. According to Wikipedia, it was picked up by Noggin channel and eventually canceled.
 
2012-10-04 01:09:44 PM
FTR, PBS does not own Sesame Street. They do not make any money off the sale of DVDs and Elmo dolls, etc. Sesame Street is produced by it's own production company and then PBS purchases the show to air it on their stations. Just as they would purchase a show made my Ken Burns or reruns of Monty Python from the BBC or whatever production company owns that. So please stop with the argument that PBS can use revenue from sales of SS merchandise, it's totally invalid.
 
2012-10-04 01:10:52 PM
So Romney says he'll cancel Sesame Street and the general consensus is that he won the debate. What did Obama do, say he didn't "get" Breaking Bad? Either way it sounds like it was a hell of a debate. Sorry I missed it.
 
2012-10-04 01:14:08 PM

ZooGirl: FTR, PBS does not own Sesame Street. They do not make any money off the sale of DVDs and Elmo dolls, etc. Sesame Street is produced by it's own production company and then PBS purchases the show to air it on their stations. Just as they would purchase a show made my Ken Burns or reruns of Monty Python from the BBC or whatever production company owns that. So please stop with the argument that PBS can use revenue from sales of SS merchandise, it's totally invalid.


I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

There's still more than enough to be had in ad revenue to keep the place afloat.
 
2012-10-04 01:15:42 PM

Malacon: Raug the Dwarf: But the original article and my argument still hinge on being able to cut funding to PBS without much repercussion.

Depends on what you consider a repercussion.

If we cut public funding PBS will likely survive, but I doubt it would be anything like what it is today.

Remember, TLC used to be a funded by the government before it was privatized. Now they air crap like Toddlers & Tiaras, Extreme Couponing, 19 Kids and Counting, Long Island Medium, and Here Comes Honey Boo Boo.

 
2012-10-04 01:21:15 PM

Raug the Dwarf: Malacon: Raug the Dwarf: But the original article and my argument still hinge on being able to cut funding to PBS without much repercussion.

Depends on what you consider a repercussion.

If we cut public funding PBS will likely survive, but I doubt it would be anything like what it is today.

Remember, TLC used to be a funded by the government before it was privatized. Now they air crap like Toddlers & Tiaras, Extreme Couponing, 19 Kids and Counting, Long Island Medium, and Here Comes Honey Boo Boo.

That was 20 years ago. The station has to change programming to keep up with what people want to see. PBS doesn't still air most of the programming they did from 20 years ago either. Their shows have changed and adapted to new audiences just like any other TV station has.

Hell, I miss SquareOne. Used to watch that every day after school and it's been off PBS since '94. According to Wikipedia, it was picked up by Noggin channel and eventually canceled.


TLC didn't change from educational programming to reality crap because people wanted it more, they changed because it's more profitable. That is what private enterprise does. They aim to make a profit, and make changes to do so. That's fine. They're allowed. Education isn't profitable. It costs too much, and pays too little.

PBS has changed their educational programming over the years because the people who make it, stopped, for whatever reason. But they've always replaced it with new educational programming. It's their purpose, and it's a requirement they must meet in order to stay funded.

Once PBS stops receiving Government subsidy they'll be free of those requirements. They'll look to make up that lost money by changing programming. They'll do what they have to just to keep the doors open. They'll air new stuff that doesn't fit the old mold, and they'll buckle under advertiser pressure to not talk about a topic, or not air a show that they think talks poorly about their industry.

The people running it will justify it to themselves that even if they're not airing as MUCH educational programming they're still doing some. So it's OK. Then over time those people will retire, or move on, and they'll hire people who don't give a damn about education but can run a commercial TV channel and keep it profitable.

In 10 years PBS won't be recognizable from what we know it as today. Because you can't make a profit in educational TV. That's why no private company does it.

That's why TLC is no longer "The Learning Channel" and why Viacom changed Noggin, a commercial free channel that showed original educational content, into Nick Jr, a channel that airs reruns of Dora the Explorer, and other Nick owned original programs with gobs of merchandise and ditched the commercial free format.
 
2012-10-04 01:22:37 PM

ZooGirl: FTR, PBS does not own Sesame Street. They do not make any money off the sale of DVDs and Elmo dolls, etc. Sesame Street is produced by it's own production company and then PBS purchases the show to air it on their stations. Just as they would purchase a show made my Ken Burns or reruns of Monty Python from the BBC or whatever production company owns that. So please stop with the argument that PBS can use revenue from sales of SS merchandise, it's totally invalid.


I came here to say this.

Children's Television Workshop is NOT PBS.
 
2012-10-04 01:57:25 PM

Raug the Dwarf: Malacon: Raug the Dwarf: But the original article and my argument still hinge on being able to cut funding to PBS without much repercussion.

Depends on what you consider a repercussion.

If we cut public funding PBS will likely survive, but I doubt it would be anything like what it is today.

Remember, TLC used to be a funded by the government before it was privatized. Now they air crap like Toddlers & Tiaras, Extreme Couponing, 19 Kids and Counting, Long Island Medium, and Here Comes Honey Boo Boo.

That was 20 years ago. The station has to change programming to keep up with what people want to see. PBS doesn't still air most of the programming they did from 20 years ago either. Their shows have changed and adapted to new audiences just like any other TV station has.

Hell, I miss SquareOne. Used to watch that every day after school and it's been off PBS since '94. According to Wikipedia, it was picked up by Noggin channel and eventually canceled.


This is your rebuttal right here. The problem with cutting the funding to PBS is not that it wouldn't survive, it's that whatever came out of that would certainly NOT be the PBS we started with.
Depending on advertising severely undermines your autonomy on programming, and as the bolded part clearly demonstrates, the majority of Americans can't be trusted with anything educational right now, it'd all be "Toddlers with tiaras fighting midgets while ice road truckin".
Look what happened to Discovery, to History Channel, we cannot lose another (possibly last) bastion of education for a measly 450 mill (compared to the cost of fighting wars no one wants).

I'm Mexican, and I owe my command of the english language and affinity to books and science to shows like Bill Nye the Science Guy, Wishbone, Magic School Bus and Reading Rainbow.In the intense anti-intellectual culture you now live by, I don't think shows like this could be made if advertisers had their way.

/miss Bill Nye terribly
//Mythbusters is a competent substitute, I guess.
 
2012-10-04 02:00:48 PM
I'm rather more worried about more episodes of Word Girl or Martha Speaks.
 
2012-10-04 02:02:08 PM
Malacon:
Dammit, gotta learn to type faster

/yours is a better statement
 
2012-10-04 02:05:23 PM
ALL NEWS MEDIA MUST BE PROFIT MOTIVATED.

That's what this is really about. Republicans are tired of not being able to control PBS and NPR they way they can with every other news outlet.

/We need more non-profit media in this country, not less
 
2012-10-04 02:27:04 PM

ItchyMcDoogle: This what I dont get. Romeny said is was about funding education but yet wants to kill PBS which is a education network.


Education and shiatty 70's band reunion marathons.
 
2012-10-04 02:48:02 PM

mhd:


LOL

Awesome. And so are they who get this...
 
2012-10-04 02:54:06 PM

dittybopper: greentea1985: Romney last night was a good used car salesman. Impressive delivery of pure bullshiat that didn't actually mean anything while Obama made his policies going forward clear. Romney also has now lost the meme war. Romney is the "winner" until SNL, Leno, Letterman, Daily Show etc. start talking about killing Big Bird

Is that the spin now? He won, but he lost? What kind of doublespeak is that?

Oh, and if it turns out that you are indeed correct, doesn't that say a lot about the voting public where someone can win the debate by the consensus of all who watched it, but a minor point can be blown out of proportion and hammered on by comedians until the public changes it's opinion?


Settle down, Francis.

This is the entertainment tab.
 
2012-10-04 02:57:25 PM

gunther_bumpass: ItchyMcDoogle: This what I dont get. Romeny said is was about funding education but yet wants to kill PBS which is a education network.

Education and shiatty 70's band reunion marathons.


The Moody Blues are not shiatty.
 
2012-10-04 03:02:04 PM
Was about to post that selling advertising on PBS means they'll be airing "Honey Boo Boo" within 10 years. I see that was covered. I don't think it's even a question of "might", you know it will farking happen.
 
2012-10-04 03:05:08 PM
Go after the bird!!!

i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-04 03:38:01 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-04 05:22:16 PM

Malacon: Raug the Dwarf: But the original article and my argument still hinge on being able to cut funding to PBS without much repercussion.

Depends on what you consider a repercussion.

If we cut public funding PBS will likely survive, but I doubt it would be anything like what it is today.

Remember, TLC used to be a funded by the government before it was privatized. Now they air crap like Toddlers & Tiaras, Extreme Couponing, 19 Kids and Counting, Long Island Medium, and Here Comes Honey Boo Boo.


Hell, if we're going to be destroying television stations to save money, let's take down all the channels that show shiat like that. TLC, goodbye. Any network that plays Survivor or Big Brother, see ya later alligator. Dancing with the Stars, America's Next Top Model? No more channel and money for you.
 
2012-10-04 05:33:43 PM
grumpy-people.com
WHERE'S MAH GUMMINT CHECK?!
 
2012-10-04 06:10:51 PM

wippit: [i.imgur.com image 487x239]


Couldn't have said it better. The "slash PBS" canard is there as a dogwhistle, not as a serious talking point, and both Romney & Obama knew it. Romney tried to pander to a specific demographic, and it backfired on him. Big Bird is going to be hung around his friggin' neck like an albatross during the weeks leading up to the election.

Romney was a good used car salesman, all right. He'd get morons to sign away their life savings, with soothing tones and faux-genuine smiles, and laugh as he pockets the profits for the lemon he just sold to those morons.
 
2012-10-04 06:13:33 PM
bigbirdhazasad.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-04 07:46:59 PM
There is nothing funnier than when Liberals get their asses kicked and they struggle for relevancy.
 
2012-10-04 07:51:40 PM

Rodeodoc: There is nothing funnier than when Liberals get their asses kicked and they struggle for relevancy.


Pretty sure the big bird meme is funnier. But then again, if there's one thing conservatives know, it's comedy.
 
2012-10-04 08:56:06 PM
He's not just gonna kill Big Bird.
 
2012-10-04 11:41:45 PM

B.L.Z. Bub: [grumpy-people.com image 300x350]
WHERE'S MAH GUMMINT CHECK?!


Biatch, I live in a farking trash can! I'm the poorest motherfarker on Sesame Street!
 
2012-10-05 12:42:14 AM
i.crackedcdn.com
"I love you just the way you-... Oh, who the fark am I kidding, even I think Mitt's a douche-bag!"
 
2012-10-05 01:16:34 AM
Someone wise said that eliminating PBS to reduce the deficit is like cutting your fingernails before you step on the scale.

Romney knows this, that comment was definitely a dog whistle and most everyone seemed to have missed it. Right wingers think that PBS and Planned Parenthood cost 20%-30% of the budget. They always group those two together so Romney's PBS comment was also a comment about defunding PP, at least to the right wing.

They hate PBS & NPR with a seething kill-with-fire rage. And that includes Sesame Street because it talks about environmentalism and things like accepting that families come in many different configurations. Right wingers do not let their children watch SS because it's liberal indoctrination and part of the whole conspiracy with schools not teaching evolution and the gay agenda and persecuting them for their Christian beliefs.

The facts have a liberal bias and so the wing nuts hate because PBS & NPR do things like like running shows that act as if evolution is a true fact rather than mentioning "the controversy" and discuss breast cancer without mentioning their fantasy that abortion causes breast cancer. Those are two actual examples that I've heard from conservatives and they were seriously angry when talking about it.

I'm not sure why Romney put it out there, he was talking to people who would never ever vote democrat. I seriously wonder if the republican party is worried about their base staying home on election day.

Like just about everything else he says, this will end up working against him. It's the only thing that will be heard and remembered about their debates by people who only follow politics casually if at all. There were big bird memes, thousands of tweets and a big bird twitter account before the debates were over. And the late night talk show hosts and SNL haven't gone at it yet. Aside from the political junkies, the thing that will be remembered about the debates is Big Bird.
 
2012-10-05 01:48:07 AM
Frontline does some of the best and hardest-hitting investigative journalism I've seen in a LONG time. They'd be the first on the chopping block if PBS were to be defunded,
 
2012-10-05 02:22:59 AM

moshi8:

Anywho, here is my question and I am sincere in asking this:

Why can't they just replay old episodes? Oeek corporate older segments into new episodes? Or do they? I mean, broadcasting costs aside, wouldn't that be a lot cheaper? SS isn't a series in the sense that someone watches it from episode 1 to the conclusion. The core audience "graduates" (or should) and moves on to programming geared for children a tad older while at the same time, new core audience children start watching.

There are only so many ways to teach a kid to count to 10.


Sesame Workshop owns Sesame Street, not PBS. It produces about 30 to 35 new programs each year, with broadcast rights limited to one year (that's why you'll see the same episode aired over and over and over).

soj4life: One thing to consider is that that $450 million is to fund not only PBS, NPR, but also money to 354 PBS member stations and 900 NPR member stations. It does not cover all of their budgets, but a large share of it.


Not true, especially for the larger stations, hence the seemingly never-ending pledge drives.

not5am: as for sesame street being profitable, sure. but pbs probably uses the profits to fund all their other programming. even with federal funding, pbs has several pledge drives to keep it running. running a nationally televised channel that will reach any tv set regardless of whether or not they have cable isn't cheap.


Once again: PBS DOES NOT OWN SESAME STREET. Sesame Workshop profits from licensing Sesame Street characters, not PBS. What PBS does is obtain broadcast rights to programs such as Sesame Street, then charges independent public television stations (PBS does NOT own any TV stations) a fee for broadcast rights.

PBS does NOT host pledge drives; its affiliate stations do.

/former employee of former PBS affiliate KCET
//yours truly did the PBS Quarterly Drive Reports (among other things)
 
2012-10-05 03:10:34 AM
PBS is a pyramid scheme! I knew it!

/rooting for the Bird
 
2012-10-05 03:46:58 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Malacon: Raug the Dwarf: But the original article and my argument still hinge on being able to cut funding to PBS without much repercussion.

Depends on what you consider a repercussion.

If we cut public funding PBS will likely survive, but I doubt it would be anything like what it is today.

Remember, TLC used to be a funded by the government before it was privatized. Now they air crap like Toddlers & Tiaras, Extreme Couponing, 19 Kids and Counting, Long Island Medium, and Here Comes Honey Boo Boo.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ so that's what happened? if this is true, this can not be repeated enough, and needs to be come its own viral meme.
 
2012-10-06 08:04:02 AM

Raug the Dwarf: Romney's an idiot. No argument there.

But this is the last time that I'll say it's ridiculous and ignorant to think we shouldn't start saving money where we can.

There's lots of things that can be done. But again, we're talking about Sesame Street and cutting funding to that. We can debate the other things that need to be cut all we want. This article and my original case still stands. We could drop funding to the station and the world spins on, with little difference than before.


No, it's ignorand and ridiculous to think we should start with tiny things when there are much bigger, and more wasteful, buget items to cut first.

Your suggestion would eliminate one of the most prominent examples of what makes PBS stand out from other television networks- a lack of advertising. Forcing PBS stations to sell air time for commercials would subject them to the will of advertisers, who are more concerned with pushing a product than they are with quality programming. Just look at what that did to the major broadcast networks and the more prominent cable networks- ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox air mostly vapid reality shows; Cartoon Network has live action programming; the Sci Fi channel doesn't air much science fiction; TLC (The Learning Channel) doesn't have any learning any more; you're lucky if you find any history on the History channel; and MTV actually based one of its ad campaigns on how it doesn't play music any more.
 
2012-10-06 04:04:42 PM
lh5.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-10-06 11:59:05 PM
It's a miracle that PBS affiliate production units can create the shows they DO on the budgets they have.
By the time any $$$ gets to them, you'd be surprised at how LITTLE $$$ is left (the $400M number is for the entire public broadcasting budget which mostly is infrastructure).

What others have said is absolutely on the mark: if PBS goes commercial, that's the end of ANY quality programming there. In order to compete for advertising $$$ they'd have to completely eliminate any property that didn't make enough profit, and completely alter the rest to maximize profit share.

Within 5 years, it'd be the worst of TLC etc.

Getting $20K of corporate sponsorship for a show or educational project is still a BIG THING, and sometimes it's that level of cash that's a make-or-break for being able to do something - and that's harder and harder to come by because there are FAR many other opportunities for companies to get ad space that has a higher ROI.

ALSO - one other thing - the MAIN REASON that you don't see shows from 20 years ago, etc. being rebroadcast is that there is ABSOLUTELY no $$$ to re-clear all of the rights. Basically we don't "own" the complete content in perpetuity and depending on the property, tracking down the rights owners, etc. would be more expensive than the show cost originally, let alone redoing everything you simply couldn't clear. (A very good example of this is the phenomenal effort it took to rebroadcast "Eyes on the Prize" a few years ago - they had to basically get a grant from (I think) the Ford Foundation JUST to research HOW they could clear the rights (let alone PAY for the recleared rights!)). BELIEVE me - if that issue "just disappeared" you would see a tsunami of back content become available almost overnight. There's SOOOOO much content that can't be touched because there's no $$$ to make it available (and the older it gets, the more expensive it'll be to do it). In their defense when these things aired "digital rebroadcast" was science fiction and most things were set up for a specific broadcast window that applied to over-the-air TV ONLY with MAYBE something for repurposing for educational use (but not always). These days there's a larger push to make the "broadcast" window longer with clearer paths towards reclearing rights at a later date, but it's still a HUGE issue.

Anyone who thinks that PBS is a $$$ hole should come intern for a few months. You'll be in for a rather shocking dose of reality at how much gets done for insanely low budgets.
 
2012-10-07 07:48:20 PM

ursomniac: ALSO - one other thing - the MAIN REASON that you don't see shows from 20 years ago, etc. being rebroadcast is that there is ABSOLUTELY no $$$ to re-clear all of the rights. Basically we don't "own" the complete content in perpetuity and depending on the property, tracking down the rights owners, etc. would be more expensive than the show cost originally, let alone redoing everything you simply couldn't clear. (A very good example of this is the phenomenal effort it took to rebroadcast "Eyes on the Prize" a few years ago - they had to basically get a grant from (I think) the Ford Foundation JUST to research HOW they could clear the rights (let alone PAY for the recleared rights!)). BELIEVE me - if that issue "just disappeared" you would see a tsunami of back content become available almost overnight. There's SOOOOO much content that can't be touched because there's no $$$ to make it available (and the older it gets, the more expensive it'll be to do it). In their defense when these things aired "digital rebroadc ...


'Tis true. Most programs have a 1-year broadcast rights window, and, when it comes to pledge programs, up to 3 years (and the really popular pledge programs, such as Roy Orbison: A Black and White Night, get "re-upped" a lot). Some programs, such as Live From Lincoln Center, can only be aired once.

/former employee of a former PBS affiliate (as I previously mentioned)
 
2012-10-07 10:35:50 PM

Lorelle: ursomniac: ALSO - one other thing - the MAIN REASON that you don't see shows from 20 years ago, etc. being rebroadcast is that there is ABSOLUTELY no $$$ to re-clear all of the rights. Basically we don't "own" the complete content in perpetuity and depending on the property, tracking down the rights owners, etc. would be more expensive than the show cost originally, let alone redoing everything you simply couldn't clear. (A very good example of this is the phenomenal effort it took to rebroadcast "Eyes on the Prize" a few years ago - they had to basically get a grant from (I think) the Ford Foundation JUST to research HOW they could clear the rights (let alone PAY for the recleared rights!)). BELIEVE me - if that issue "just disappeared" you would see a tsunami of back content become available almost overnight. There's SOOOOO much content that can't be touched because there's no $$$ to make it available (and the older it gets, the more expensive it'll be to do it). In their defense when these things aired "digital rebroadc ...

'Tis true. Most programs have a 1-year broadcast rights window, and, when it comes to pledge programs, up to 3 years (and the really popular pledge programs, such as Roy Orbison: A Black and White Night, get "re-upped" a lot). Some programs, such as Live From Lincoln Center, can only be aired once.

/former employee of a former PBS affiliate (as I previously mentioned)


I wish they'd show the Dale Chihuly stuff more often. I love that stuff.
 
2012-10-07 11:30:30 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Lorelle: ursomniac: ALSO - one other thing - the MAIN REASON that you don't see shows from 20 years ago, etc. being rebroadcast is that there is ABSOLUTELY no $$$ to re-clear all of the rights. Basically we don't "own" the complete content in perpetuity and depending on the property, tracking down the rights owners, etc. would be more expensive than the show cost originally, let alone redoing everything you simply couldn't clear. (A very good example of this is the phenomenal effort it took to rebroadcast "Eyes on the Prize" a few years ago - they had to basically get a grant from (I think) the Ford Foundation JUST to research HOW they could clear the rights (let alone PAY for the recleared rights!)). BELIEVE me - if that issue "just disappeared" you would see a tsunami of back content become available almost overnight. There's SOOOOO much content that can't be touched because there's no $$$ to make it available (and the older it gets, the more expensive it'll be to do it). In their defense when these things aired "digital rebroadc ...

'Tis true. Most programs have a 1-year broadcast rights window, and, when it comes to pledge programs, up to 3 years (and the really popular pledge programs, such as Roy Orbison: A Black and White Night, get "re-upped" a lot). Some programs, such as Live From Lincoln Center, can only be aired once.

/former employee of a former PBS affiliate (as I previously mentioned)

I wish they'd show the Dale Chihuly stuff more often. I love that stuff.


I want PBS to show more of the old Nova and Nature episodes, and the old National Geographic specials. Or rent them out to Nat Geo and Animal Planet. Also the Discover: The World Of Science series.
 
2012-10-08 12:00:58 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: I want PBS to show more of the old Nova and Nature episodes, and the old National Geographic specials. Or rent them out to Nat Geo and Animal Planet. Also the Discover: The World Of Science series.


They won't, because of the broadcast rights limitations mentioned above. You can watch recent episodes on the PBS website, and buy selected old episodes on DVD through Shop PBS. BTW, revenue from DVD sales goes to the producing stations that own the programs (WGBH Boston and WNET New York, respectively), not PBS.
 
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