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(LA Times)   Sex offenders sue for the right to hand out Halloween candy, are already stocking up on M&Ms and Baby Roofies   (latimes.com) divider line 46
    More: Unlikely, Halloween, sex offenders, 1st amendment, Megan's Law, registered sex offender, free speech  
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4317 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Oct 2012 at 8:46 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-04 09:28:11 AM  
5 votes:
These registries are a great idea. We need more. I'm not sure who decided that sexual offenses were the worst crimes. I'm not crazy about murder. Why isn't there a murder registry? Why can sex offenders be repeatedly and continually punished after their release from prison, but murderers aren't? How about a DUI registry? When you're on the DUI registry, you should get a special icon on your driver's license. Require that bartenders must check each patron's license, and if the DUI Registry icon is on a person's license they can't be served alcohol. Or buy alcohol. Ever. Where's the sense in keeping all sex offenders (even those whose crimes did not involve children) away from children, but we don't make any effort to keep drunk drivers away from alcohol? The more registries, the better off we all are. Criminals should be punished forever. How about those people in my town who watered their lawn on the wrong day when water restrictions were in place this summer? They should be put on some sort of registry. I think every time they water their lawn, they should have to wear a shirt that says "I stole your water" or "I don't know what day it is." Or something. (But I hope there's not a registry for parking on the wrong side of the street during a snow emergency parking ban, because I'm always getting it wrong.)

I'm being a little facetious. There's certainly a logic to recognizing that many sex offenders continue to be a risk and believing that the rest of us deserve some sort of ongoing protection. But I think fair is fair. Either we should NOT treat sex offenders differently from other criminals, or we should establish more registries for other types of criminals. One or the other. Or... If sex offenders are so dangerous, then why not just lengthen the minimum sentences? Why let them out, and then put all these restrictions on them? Why not just keep them in prison?
2012-10-04 08:55:14 AM  
5 votes:
Remember before we had registries, when all those kids were getting raped getting Halloween candy?

No? Neither does anyone else.
2012-10-04 08:53:50 AM  
5 votes:
This thread will hit about 230 posts I think.

85% of it will be the following:

1) There are a lot of people on those lists who have done nothing dangerous or "criminal" they are victims of over-zealous "for the children" prosecution. This will be followed by anecdotal stories of person peeing on a dumpster at 2am downtown in a bar parking lot, etc.

2) Child molesters are on that list for a reason and they should be punished and it is a good thing that they are.

So, how about I save everyone a lot of time and typing and just say the following:

The system is broken. Yes, children need to be protected, but we have gone well above and far beyond the useful range of that protection and created a "sub class" of people who are treated the same whether they are dangerous predators or someone with a moments drunken indiscretion. This will probably lead to more criminal acts as those people are actually being forced to live a life of crime to survive, as we seem to have taken their abilities to function in society away from them, regardless of the severity of the offense.

Tear it down, start over, and let people who are predators stay on the list, and let those who did something stupid serve their punishment and let it be done.

argh.
2012-10-04 08:39:43 AM  
5 votes:
"To us, it's similar to branding," she said. "We can think of what happened in Nazi Germany, where Jews had to appear in public wearing yellow stars."

And you just lost your case right there...

There is nothing wrong with being Jewish, there is something wrong with being a sex offender. To suggest you're the same as an innocent bystander who was systematically slaughtered is, well, kind of offensive.
2012-10-04 08:35:43 AM  
5 votes:
"We can think of what happened in Nazi Germany, where Jews had to appear in public wearing yellow stars."

Look, I think the sex offender panic has gotten out of hand, but you need to calm the fark down.
2012-10-04 08:57:55 AM  
4 votes:
I would have no problem with this if the definition of sex offender weren't so broad.

Convicted kiddy-diddler? No Halloween for you.

Caught peeing in an alley next to the bar at 2:30 AM? Who the fark cares
2012-10-04 08:54:58 AM  
4 votes:

I_Am_Weasel: there is something wrong with being a sex offender


No, not always. You can wind up on a sex offender registry for some pretty stupid shiat. And this is ignoring the fact that the mere existence of a registry like this means you're either a) continuing to maliciously punish people who have supposedly already paid their debt to society or b) admitting that you let a potentially dangerous person loose in the community for no good reason.

The whole sex offender thing is 100% useless and I will always support anything that helps anybody on it get back any right that's been stolen from them.

You don't want Johnny Rapesalot to live within 100 yards of a school or playground or hand out Halloween candy because you think he's a threat to kids?

Then leave him in prison, dumbasses.

/ that said, the Nazi Germany bit was pretty dumb...
2012-10-04 08:51:00 AM  
4 votes:
Alright I'll be that guy.

The government doesn't have the right to tell you what you can or cannot do with your own property.
2012-10-04 09:19:13 AM  
3 votes:
RTFA, folks, and mock Subby for not noticing the article is not about having contact with or giving candy to children. It's about the right to decorate your house for Halloween.
2012-10-04 09:17:39 AM  
3 votes:

Jon iz teh kewl: RumsfeldsReplacement: Jon iz teh kewl: RumsfeldsReplacement: I would have no problem with this if the definition of sex offender weren't so broad.

Convicted kiddy-diddler? No Halloween for you.

Caught peeing in an alley next to the bar at 2:30 AM? Who the fark cares

i do
and u shold too.

OK, I'll bite. Why?

what if a 3 year old saw u pee naked. what would he think then??


If a 3 year old saw me peeing at 2:30AM in an alley outside a bar, there are other far bigger problems than what I'm doing.
2012-10-04 09:16:03 AM  
3 votes:

meanmutton: RumsfeldsReplacement: Jon iz teh kewl: RumsfeldsReplacement: I would have no problem with this if the definition of sex offender weren't so broad.

Convicted kiddy-diddler? No Halloween for you.

Caught peeing in an alley next to the bar at 2:30 AM? Who the fark cares

i do
and u shold too.

OK, I'll bite. Why?

I don't like my town smelling like piss.


Fair enough. Public urination is, and should be, a crime. But why is it something that would land you on a sex offender list?
2012-10-04 09:07:14 AM  
3 votes:

The Muthaship: HotWingConspiracy: Remember before we had registries, when all those kids were getting raped getting Halloween candy?

No? Neither does anyone else.

I'm okay with not allowing registered sex offenders contact with kids (especially unsupervised ones like you get on Halloween). I don't want them striking up a relationship that might lead to abuse.


Remember before we had registries, and kids were striking up relationships with people that they got Halloween candy from?

No? Neither does anyone else.
2012-10-04 02:18:50 PM  
2 votes:
My younger brother and housemate is a registered offender. He served his time and is out on a "conditional" release. My older brother and I had to move out of our really nice town home because of his status. We found a sympathetic (does not give a fark) landlord and moved into a significantly shatty-er neighborhood so that we can stay together as a family and help each other out. He just got the "notice" about Halloween. He was not a kid diddler. More of "I'm so drunk" - "what did we do?" story. We essentially have to turn out the lights and put a notice on the door. No candy, no decorations, no parties, no going to haunted houses with his nieces, nothing. Stay at home and hide. It sucks. He was able to celebrate more of a Halloween in the penitentiary then in the "freedom" of outside. My brother is not a predator. He served his time.
2012-10-04 11:49:56 AM  
2 votes:

The Muthaship: Shadow Blasko: there was a bill .. but I cant see if it passed or not.

It didn't. People were worried about vigilantism.


You know, the only person I actually know on the "list" is a super nice guy who has never hurt anyone.

He was the designated driver for a group of people at a DMB concert in Cincy, and was stuck in the parking lot for over an hour trying to leave. Because he was the DD, he had been drinking soda all night (it was hot) and really had to pee. There were no porta potties in the lot (to discourage pre-gaming) and you could not re-enter the venue after the concert.

He did one of those "open the hood and pretend to look inside" things and got busted peeing on the car. (Massive police presence due to ... well.. it was a Dave Matthews show.. you do the math)

(end of what I actually SAW, the rest is what I heard.. up until the consequences part)

It was a simple ticket, and he was offered the chance to plead out on it, and did so. The PA didn't tell him that, because the concert was next to an amusement park, "kids area" even though it was midnight, his pleading out to an exposure ticket ended him on the sex offenders list.

Within 12 months he lost his job, marriage, church (shunned) car... and even unsupervised visitation for his kids.

He's basically homeless on the streets now. He was a very straightforward family man. He was chased out of his community, job, church..and basically his LIFE because he is on that list, and they don't bother telling the neighbors WHY .. just that you are a sex offender.

Makes me sick.
2012-10-04 09:24:36 AM  
2 votes:

Jon iz teh kewl: RumsfeldsReplacement: Jon iz teh kewl: RumsfeldsReplacement: Jon iz teh kewl: RumsfeldsReplacement: I would have no problem with this if the definition of sex offender weren't so broad.

Convicted kiddy-diddler? No Halloween for you.

Caught peeing in an alley next to the bar at 2:30 AM? Who the fark cares

i do
and u shold too.

OK, I'll bite. Why?

what if a 3 year old saw u pee naked. what would he think then??

If a 3 year old saw me peeing at 2:30AM in an alley outside a bar, there are other far bigger problems than what I'm doing.

if there's a threat of being called a SEX OFFENDER doesn't keep you from peeing outside, maybe you really are a rapist.


Ah, so you are just trolling. Good to know. I feel stupid now.
2012-10-04 09:23:23 AM  
2 votes:
HotWingConspiracy:
Remember before we had registries, when all those kids were getting raped getting Halloween candy?

No? Neither does anyone else.


Oh you mean, back when most child molestation happened by family members or trusted acquaintances? Yeah, good thing THAT all changed.

Honestly, I think forbidding sex offenders from decorating for Halloween at all is a bit excessive. They probably shouldn't be allowed to give out candy, but lots of people who decorate don't give out candy. Just make them keep the porch light off. They can stay inside and eat the little chocolate bars themselves, like we all did in college.
2012-10-04 09:18:20 AM  
2 votes:

RumsfeldsReplacement: meanmutton: RumsfeldsReplacement: Jon iz teh kewl: RumsfeldsReplacement: I would have no problem with this if the definition of sex offender weren't so broad.

Convicted kiddy-diddler? No Halloween for you.

Caught peeing in an alley next to the bar at 2:30 AM? Who the fark cares

i do
and u shold too.

OK, I'll bite. Why?

I don't like my town smelling like piss.

Fair enough. Public urination is, and should be, a crime. But why is it something that would land you on a sex offender list?


Because it involves a penis being displayed in public. And Penises can never be used for anything less than rape, so by virtue of the fact that a man had his penis out, that makes him a sex offender because someone was getting raped before it was put away. It's like a Ninja's sword. It can't be put back in its sheath without tasting blood.
2012-10-04 09:01:52 AM  
2 votes:

RumsfeldsReplacement: Convicted kiddy-diddler? No Halloween for you.


I go back to my prior point. If you've actually been caught banging kids or climbing in windows and raping people.... why the hell were you released from prison in the first place?

I don't understand the registry at all. The argument is that violent sex offenders are highly likely to repeat their crimes and this appears to be born out by evidence. So why on Earth is the "fix" to put them on a little list and let them rejoin the community? Put the farkers in prison and keep them there until we can figure out an effective way to reform them.

They're dangerous. They don't become less dangerous because they're on a little list and I don't understand how it makes sense to offload the risk to their neighbors rather than just keeping them locked away from them to begin with?
2012-10-04 09:00:53 AM  
2 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: Remember before we had registries, when all those kids were getting raped getting Halloween candy?

No? Neither does anyone else.


I'm okay with not allowing registered sex offenders contact with kids (especially unsupervised ones like you get on Halloween). I don't want them striking up a relationship that might lead to abuse.
2012-10-04 08:54:29 AM  
2 votes:

sodomizer: Sex offenders are people too, you know.


Yes, people who have been found guilty of committing a sex crime. Me, I'm just going to avoid their house on hallowe'en. I'm just bigoted against sex offenders. And the Dutch.
2012-10-04 08:49:47 AM  
2 votes:

I_Am_Weasel: "To us, it's similar to branding," she said. "We can think of what happened in Nazi Germany, where Jews had to appear in public wearing yellow stars."

And you just lost your case right there...

There is nothing wrong with being Jewish, there is something wrong with being a sex offender. To suggest you're the same as an innocent bystander who was systematically slaughtered is, well, kind of offensive.


I wouldn't say they lost it, but they did use a stupid argument. Which is sad, as they have a point.
2012-10-04 03:38:40 PM  
1 votes:

branchtroy: My younger brother and housemate is a registered offender. He served his time and is out on a "conditional" release. My older brother and I had to move out of our really nice town home because of his status. We found a sympathetic (does not give a fark) landlord and moved into a significantly shatty-er neighborhood so that we can stay together as a family and help each other out. He just got the "notice" about Halloween. He was not a kid diddler. More of "I'm so drunk" - "what did we do?" story. We essentially have to turn out the lights and put a notice on the door. No candy, no decorations, no parties, no going to haunted houses with his nieces, nothing. Stay at home and hide. It sucks. He was able to celebrate more of a Halloween in the penitentiary then in the "freedom" of outside. My brother is not a predator. He served his time.


Not according to the ITGs in this thread. Several want to see him dead.

/I'm not one of them
//getting on the registry can really happen to just about anybody
///I had a friend who had a similar story to yours - ruined his life forever
2012-10-04 01:50:29 PM  
1 votes:

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Gump Worsley: Yeah, because nothing bad ever happens.
http://www.corrections.com/articles/8558

Your comment says nothing. What is your point? That sometimes people on parole look at hardcore porn and this is terrible?


"Turner was forbidden from possessing sexually explicit materials without approval from state officials as part of his parole for the 1973 murder and sexual assault of a 9-year-old Lisa French of Fond du Lac girl on Halloween. The girl came to Turner's house while trick-or-treating."

Sound out the big words if you have to.
2012-10-04 12:22:22 PM  
1 votes:
Don't want to do the time? Don't do the crime, dumbasses.
2012-10-04 12:02:54 PM  
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: Makes me sick.


I'm not doubting you, but under Ohio law, that story is massively unlikely unless there is much more to it.
2012-10-04 10:16:25 AM  
1 votes:

Gump Worsley: Yeah, because nothing bad ever happens.
http://www.corrections.com/articles/8558


Your comment says nothing. What is your point? That sometimes people on parole look at hardcore porn and this is terrible?
2012-10-04 10:00:15 AM  
1 votes:

Another Government Employee: Hey, in some places they pick the offenders up in protective custody for Halloween.


They do that here.

There is usually a mandatory "support/check-in" meeting for whatever hours trick or treat is scheduled for in that location, and people on the list are absolutely required to be in attendance.
2012-10-04 09:48:11 AM  
1 votes:

Latinwolf: Vegan Meat Popsicle : I_Am_Weasel: there is something wrong with being a sex offender

No, not always. You can wind up on a sex offender registry for some pretty stupid shiat. And this is ignoring the fact that the mere existence of a registry like this means you're either a) continuing to maliciously punish people who have supposedly already paid their debt to society or b) admitting that you let a potentially dangerous person loose in the community for no good reason.

The whole sex offender thing is 100% useless and I will always support anything that helps anybody on it get back any right that's been stolen from them.

You don't want Johnny Rapesalot to live within 100 yards of a school or playground or hand out Halloween candy because you think he's a threat to kids?

Then leave him in prison, dumbasses.

/ that said, the Nazi Germany bit was pretty dumb...

See what Shadow Blasko wrote and I'll add in reference to your comment, that if we make the penalties higher, longer jail terms as you suggested, we'll have people here claiming we shouldn't do that because it will encourage the sex predators to kill their victims rather than just leave them alive.


Considering that murderers can get out of prison faster, are not targeted in prison like pedophiles, not put on public list with a ton of living restrictions and public humiliation, then why yes, it is better for them to kill the kid outright. It is completely asinine that you have tent cities for sex offenders due to the "stranger scare" (which can be anything from misdemeanor public urination to actual forceful sex crimes) yet have no restrictions on former prisoners who committed murder, extreme bodily injury, domestic abuse, etc.
2012-10-04 09:34:10 AM  
1 votes:

Andulamb: These registries are a great idea. We need more. I'm not sure who decided that sexual offenses were the worst crimes. I'm not crazy about murder. Why isn't there a murder registry? Why can sex offenders be repeatedly and continually punished after their release from prison, but murderers aren't? How about a DUI registry? When you're on the DUI registry, you should get a special icon on your driver's license. Require that bartenders must check each patron's license, and if the DUI Registry icon is on a person's license they can't be served alcohol. Or buy alcohol. Ever. Where's the sense in keeping all sex offenders (even those whose crimes did not involve children) away from children, but we don't make any effort to keep drunk drivers away from alcohol? The more registries, the better off we all are. Criminals should be punished forever. How about those people in my town who watered their lawn on the wrong day when water restrictions were in place this summer? They should be put on some sort of registry. I think every time they water their lawn, they should have to wear a shirt that says "I stole your water" or "I don't know what day it is." Or something. (But I hope there's not a registry for parking on the wrong side of the street during a snow emergency parking ban, because I'm always getting it wrong.)

I'm being a little facetious. There's certainly a logic to recognizing that many sex offenders continue to be a risk and believing that the rest of us deserve some sort of ongoing protection. But I think fair is fair. Either we should NOT treat sex offenders differently from other criminals, or we should establish more registries for other types of criminals. One or the other. Or... If sex offenders are so dangerous, then why not just lengthen the minimum sentences? Why let them out, and then put all these restrictions on them? Why not just keep them in prison?


Ohio actually has a dui registry, and you get special license plates if you are on it.

I like you license icon idea though. DUI? No more drinks at a bar for you!
2012-10-04 09:33:42 AM  
1 votes:

sodomizer: miscreant: Most sexual predators of children are somebody the child knows

Probably because that's the best way for them to have access to the child. That is in fact a good argument for limiting their access to children.


Based on this, I think we should probably just err on the side of caution and remove children from their family and raise them like veal in isolated boxes. For their safety, of course.
2012-10-04 09:31:19 AM  
1 votes:

miscreant: Most sexual predators of children are somebody the child knows


Probably because that's the best way for them to have access to the child. That is in fact a good argument for limiting their access to children.
2012-10-04 09:23:10 AM  
1 votes:

JosephFinn: RTFA, folks, and mock Subby for not noticing the article is not about having contact with or giving candy to children. It's about the right to decorate your house for Halloween.


I don't think that's in the constitution.
2012-10-04 09:21:52 AM  
1 votes:

meanmutton: Rape, both of children and adults, has gone down significantly. There are lots if reasons for this; it's not hard to believe that keeping children away from sexual predators is one of those reasons.


Most sexual predators of children are somebody the child knows. A parent, relative, or friend of the family. Keeping kids away from random strangers probably wouldn't even have any effect statistically on rape statistics. What probably does have an effect is the fact that children simply have far less freedom than they used to. Almost all activity for kids is much closer to home and much more structured than it was even a generation ago.
2012-10-04 09:20:20 AM  
1 votes:

meanmutton: HotWingConspiracy: Remember before we had registries, when all those kids were getting raped getting Halloween candy?

No? Neither does anyone else.

Rape, both of children and adults, has gone down significantly. There are lots if reasons for this; it's not hard to believe that keeping children away from sexual predators is one of those reasons.


I find that hard to believe, actually. You understand that these people are out in the world, with children everywhere at all times, right? If you've got comparative stats for Halloween rape, I'd love to see it.
2012-10-04 09:19:10 AM  
1 votes:

RumsfeldsReplacement: Public urination is, and should be, a crime. But why is it something that would land you on a sex offender list?


I wonder the same. I don't think it's reasonable to safe that "nudity = sexual excitation." Sometimes, a dong is just a dong, and ta-tas are just ta-tas.
2012-10-04 09:14:15 AM  
1 votes:

RumsfeldsReplacement: Jon iz teh kewl: RumsfeldsReplacement: I would have no problem with this if the definition of sex offender weren't so broad.

Convicted kiddy-diddler? No Halloween for you.

Caught peeing in an alley next to the bar at 2:30 AM? Who the fark cares

i do
and u shold too.

OK, I'll bite. Why?


I don't like my town smelling like piss.
2012-10-04 09:13:38 AM  
1 votes:
In all honesty the fact that a seemingly ordinary people think it's normal to have a sex offender app on their smartphones is more concerning to me than the offenders handing out Halloween candy. I think the fear and paranoia that we pass along to kids over these issues does a lot of damage and I'm fairly unconvinced that the registry and all the other trappings of 'protecting children' do anything at all to reduce incidents of abuse.
2012-10-04 09:12:05 AM  
1 votes:

Bhruic: Cyno01: What about crimes involving children not on Halloween? Yeah theres a big difference between a kiddy diddler and an 18 year old who got on the list because his 17 year old girlfriends parents didnt like him, and i think a lot of sex offender restrictions are pretty crazy depending on the nature of the crime, but statutory rapists and alley pissers aside, i dont think this is a terrible law.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the sex offenders list for anyone who's been convicted of a sex crime? As in, it's not limited to people who have been convicted of a sex crime with a minor? So why the automatic assumption that they are interested in having sex with kids (not necessarily aimed at you, but you provided a good opportunity to raise the question)?


Because we're in the era of ZOMG STRANGER DANGER thanks to sensationalistic news reports that scare people into thinking there's a nasty stranger waiting around every corner to scoop up their little precious, when in reality, they have a greater chance of a relative or friend molesting the kid.
2012-10-04 09:11:59 AM  
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: Remember before we had registries, when all those kids were getting raped getting Halloween candy?

No? Neither does anyone else.


Rape, both of children and adults, has gone down significantly. There are lots if reasons for this; it's not hard to believe that keeping children away from sexual predators is one of those reasons.
2012-10-04 09:10:16 AM  
1 votes:

Cyno01: What about crimes involving children not on Halloween? Yeah theres a big difference between a kiddy diddler and an 18 year old who got on the list because his 17 year old girlfriends parents didnt like him, and i think a lot of sex offender restrictions are pretty crazy depending on the nature of the crime, but statutory rapists and alley pissers aside, i dont think this is a terrible law.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the sex offenders list for anyone who's been convicted of a sex crime? As in, it's not limited to people who have been convicted of a sex crime with a minor? So why the automatic assumption that they are interested in having sex with kids (not necessarily aimed at you, but you provided a good opportunity to raise the question)?
2012-10-04 09:01:29 AM  
1 votes:

Kurmudgeon: Bhruic: I wouldn't say they lost it, but they did use a stupid argument. Which is sad, as they have a point.

How Sandusky of you....


I'm confused as to how that reference makes sense in this situation...?
2012-10-04 08:59:23 AM  
1 votes:

Vegan Meat Popsicle: You don't want Johnny Rapesalot to live within 100 yards of a school or playground or hand out Halloween candy because you think he's a threat to kids?

Then leave him in prison, dumbasses.


I think this point is legitimate but the real problem is that we seem to have a lot of pedophiles in this country. Putting them all in prison for life might involve billions more in prison costs. Then again, it might give the violent rectal rapists something to do.
2012-10-04 08:55:14 AM  
1 votes:

Nurglitch: sodomizer: Sex offenders are people too, you know.

Yes, people who have been found guilty of committing a sex crime. Me, I'm just going to avoid their house on hallowe'en. I'm just bigoted against sex offenders. And the Dutch.


and carnival workers.
2012-10-04 08:54:01 AM  
1 votes:
Aren't most registered sex offenders not allowed within a certain distance to children?

And yeah, the Nazi/Heeb reference was stupid.

and -
i194.photobucket.com
2012-10-04 08:53:39 AM  
1 votes:

Warlordtrooper: Alright I'll be that guy.

The government doesn't have the right to tell you what you can or cannot do with your own property.


Of course they do, if you are still under their control due to your criminal actions. They may also restrict with whom you may associate while you are under their supervision.
2012-10-04 08:50:52 AM  
1 votes:
Sex offenders are people too, you know.
 
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