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(NewsMax)   55% of doctors say they would vote for Romney if the election was today. Apparently, the Hippocratic Oath obligates them to help anyone on life support   (newsmax.com) divider line 108
    More: Interesting, Hippocratic Oath, President Obama, anesthesiologists, health law, paid survey  
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527 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Oct 2012 at 11:43 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-04 01:45:54 PM  
This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.
 
2012-10-04 01:47:26 PM  

born_yesterday: Pinner: mrshowrules: Doctors would rather see 2 patients and do several unnecessary positions to bill the insurance company $2,000 than give 3 patients the care they need and bill the insurance company $2,000

I think the one leg up on the table was an unnecessary position for my exam.
And again, with the other leg.
My farts are still whistling.

Joey: Isn't that how pants are fitted?

Chandler: Sure. In prison!


I'm tired of the lack of truth in the post around here.

ROSS is the one who says "Yes, yes it is. IN PRISON!"

We're better than this.
 
2012-10-04 01:50:22 PM  

OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.


This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?
 
2012-10-04 01:53:01 PM  

badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?


Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)
 
2012-10-04 01:54:23 PM  

badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?


You do realize that the US healthcare system is a joke in the eyes of most countries and doctors from other parts of the world, right?
 
2012-10-04 01:54:57 PM  

badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?


Profit is the difference between the purchase and the component costs of delivered goods and/or services and any operating or other expenses. Cost of goods sold (COGS) refer to the inventory costs of those goods a business has sold during a particular period.

It will help all of us if you understand your terms before you use the keyboard.
 
2012-10-04 01:58:10 PM  
But more importantly, 4 out of 5 dentists would vote for Kodos.
 
2012-10-04 01:58:47 PM  

herrDrFarkenstein: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Profit is the difference between the purchase and the component costs of delivered goods and/or services and any operating or other expenses. Cost of goods sold (COGS) refer to the inventory costs of those goods a business has sold during a particular period.

It will help all of us if you understand your terms before you use the keyboard.


You cannot tell me that the true cost of a 1 ft. section of surgical tubing should cost the patient or the insurance comany $25 like doctors and hospitals charge. Unfortunately, if they cannot get their costs under control, that is poor management and they should be fired from their jobs.

You really should check into the facts of how a 503c non-profit works.
 
2012-10-04 02:00:11 PM  

OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)


You did not answer the question. IF COST EXCEEDS REVENUE HOW DO YOU KEEP THE DOORS OPEN?
 
2012-10-04 02:00:59 PM  

OrygunFarker: herrDrFarkenstein: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Profit is the difference between the purchase and the component costs of delivered goods and/or services and any operating or other expenses. Cost of goods sold (COGS) refer to the inventory costs of those goods a business has sold during a particular period.

It will help all of us if you understand your terms before you use the keyboard.

You cannot tell me that the true cost of a 1 ft. section of surgical tubing should cost the patient or the insurance comany $25 like doctors and hospitals charge. Unfortunately, if they cannot get their costs under control, that is poor management and they should be fired from their jobs.

You really should check into the facts of how a 503c non-profit works.


Yeah. I was responding to the other guy, who responded to you.
 
2012-10-04 02:01:37 PM  

badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)

You did not answer the question. IF COST EXCEEDS REVENUE HOW DO YOU KEEP THE DOORS OPEN?


You still don't understand what "profit" means, do you?
 
2012-10-04 02:02:20 PM  
I feel like I'm refereeing Thanksgiving at the kiddie table.
 
2012-10-04 02:03:25 PM  

herrDrFarkenstein: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)

You did not answer the question. IF COST EXCEEDS REVENUE HOW DO YOU KEEP THE DOORS OPEN?

You still don't understand what "profit" means, do you?


You still don't understand what loss means do you?
 
2012-10-04 02:05:34 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every time I'm in the chair my dentist biatches to me about how the Democrats are going to force him out of business with their taxes and requiring him to have malpractice insurance. Except the last time, where we talked about why he made the choice to ditch his Porsche 911 Carrera 4S Cabrio for an Aston Martin DB9 Volante.


As a dentist, all I can say is Jesus Christ. What the hell is he charging you? Unless he's single with no kids, or a specialist, or both
 
2012-10-04 02:09:25 PM  

badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)

You did not answer the question. IF COST EXCEEDS REVENUE HOW DO YOU KEEP THE DOORS OPEN?



If your costs as a doctor (basic supplies and equipment, reoccurring, annual, and labor costs) exceed profits, you go out of business. That's called the free market.

I can't see how this basic premise isn't understood by you?
 
2012-10-04 02:13:22 PM  

qorkfiend: ±1.6% seems about right for a sample of that size.


It would if there were any measures whatsoever to ensure a representative sample.

There were not. It was just the people willing to actively take the time to fill out and submit the survey on their own time, i.e. overwhelmingly people that want to biatch/be upset about things. Probably the 97% that didn't respond reflect the statistical party distribution norm for their education level instead, whatever that is.
 
2012-10-04 02:13:59 PM  

OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)

You did not answer the question. IF COST EXCEEDS REVENUE HOW DO YOU KEEP THE DOORS OPEN?


If your costs as a doctor (basic supplies and equipment, reoccurring, annual, and labor costs) exceed profits, you go out of business. That's called the free market.

I can't see how this basic premise isn't understood by you?


Good, so you do understand that medicine is a business like any other business and that there needs to be a revenue stream that pays for expenses (including salaries). I thought maybe you believed physicians should work for free.
 
2012-10-04 02:16:54 PM  
What, doctors are unhappy with the idea they may not be able to truck patients off to the hospital for tons of costly and unnecessary procedures then watch the checks roll it, or take kickbacks (I'm sorry, "incentives" and "bonuses") from big pharma for pushing designer meds?

Color me shocked.
 
2012-10-04 02:20:30 PM  

propasaurus: The physicians identified themselves as 24 percent Democrat; 35 percent Republican; 26 percent Independent; 6 percent Libertarian; and 7 percent unaffiliated.


I think any practicing doctor who self-identifies as libertarian should be forced to indicate that when you go to see him.

/wouldn't want to be treated by a hypocrite or an idiot
 
2012-10-04 02:21:07 PM  

OrygunFarker: herrDrFarkenstein: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Profit is the difference between the purchase and the component costs of delivered goods and/or services and any operating or other expenses. Cost of goods sold (COGS) refer to the inventory costs of those goods a business has sold during a particular period.

It will help all of us if you understand your terms before you use the keyboard.

You cannot tell me that the true cost of a 1 ft. section of surgical tubing should cost the patient or the insurance comany $25 like doctors and hospitals charge. Unfortunately, if they cannot get their costs under control, that is poor management and they should be fired from their jobs.

You really should check into the facts of how a 503c non-profit works.


So you would like to see all physicians practices run like a 503c?
 
2012-10-04 02:22:14 PM  

that bosnian sniper: What, doctors are unhappy with the idea they may not be able to truck patients off to the hospital for tons of costly and unnecessary procedures then watch the checks roll it, or take kickbacks (I'm sorry, "incentives" and "bonuses") from big pharma for pushing designer meds?

Color me shocked.


Doctors mostly order unnecessary tests because otherwise they'll get lawsuited into oblivion.

Don't like it? Push your legislator to take up tort reform as an issue. Obama's on it, so it's not like it's a right-wing-only deal.
 
2012-10-04 02:22:45 PM  

badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)

You did not answer the question. IF COST EXCEEDS REVENUE HOW DO YOU KEEP THE DOORS OPEN?


If your costs as a doctor (basic supplies and equipment, reoccurring, annual, and labor costs) exceed profits, you go out of business. That's called the free market.

I can't see how this basic premise isn't understood by you?

Good, so you do understand that medicine is a business like any other business and that there needs to be a revenue stream that pays for expenses (including salaries). I thought maybe you believed physicians should work for free.




No, as I stated in my original post, they need to be paid a fair and healthy salary. If you cannot control the costs of your business, you don't deserve to be in business.

Non-profit healthcare doesn't have to be non-paid healthcare. The 503c just deems that nobody but the non-profit gets to keep the gains. It goes back into the entity for overhead, and costs.

The board of 3 or more votes the salary of the staff and their own. Simple as that.
 
2012-10-04 02:25:16 PM  

OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)

You did not answer the question. IF COST EXCEEDS REVENUE HOW DO YOU KEEP THE DOORS OPEN?


If your costs as a doctor (basic supplies and equipment, reoccurring, annual, and labor costs) exceed profits, you go out of business. That's called the free market.

I can't see how this basic premise isn't understood by you?

Good, so you do understand that medicine is a business like any other business and that there needs to be a revenue stream that pays for expenses (including salaries). I thought maybe you believed physicians should work for free.



No, as I stated in my original post, they need to be paid a fair and healthy salary. If you cannot control the costs of your business, you don't deserve to be in business.

Non-profit healthcare doesn't have to be non-paid healthcare. The 503c just deems that nobody but the non-profit gets to keep the gains. It goes back into the entity for overhead, and costs.

The board of 3 or more votes the salary of the staff and their own. Simple as that.


Ok, it is fair to argue that medicine should be non-profit if that is what you believe. This would be a seismic shift in an incredibly large and complex industry.
 
2012-10-04 02:26:48 PM  

OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)

You did not answer the question. IF COST EXCEEDS REVENUE HOW DO YOU KEEP THE DOORS OPEN?


If your costs as a doctor (basic supplies and equipment, reoccurring, annual, and labor costs) exceed profits, you go out of business. That's called the free market.

I can't see how this basic premise isn't understood by you?

Good, so you do understand that medicine is a business like any other business and that there needs to be a revenue stream that pays for expenses (including salaries). I thought maybe you believed physicians should work for free.



No, as I stated in my original post, they need to be paid a fair and healthy salary. If you cannot control the costs of your business, you don't deserve to be in business.

Non-profit healthcare doesn't have to be non-paid healthcare. The 503c just deems that nobody but the non-profit gets to keep the gains. It goes back into the entity for overhead, and costs.

The board of 3 or more votes the salary of the staff and their own. Simple as that.


But I am interested in why you believe physician practices should be run as non-profit organizations.
 
2012-10-04 02:34:00 PM  

badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)

You did not answer the question. IF COST EXCEEDS REVENUE HOW DO YOU KEEP THE DOORS OPEN?


If your costs as a doctor (basic supplies and equipment, reoccurring, annual, and labor costs) exceed profits, you go out of business. That's called the free market.

I can't see how this basic premise isn't understood by you?

Good, so you do understand that medicine is a business like any other business and that there needs to be a revenue stream that pays for expenses (including salaries). I thought maybe you believed physicians should work for free.



No, as I stated in my original post, they need to be paid a fair and healthy salary. If you cannot control the costs of your business, you don't deserve to be in business.

Non-profit healthcare doesn't have to be non-paid healthcare. The 503c just deems that nobody but the non-profit gets to keep the gains. It goes back into the entity for overhead, and costs.

The board of 3 or more votes the salary of the staff and their own. Simple as that.

But I am interested in why you believe physician practices should be run as non-profit organizations.


I am interested in why you believe physician practices should be solely for-profit endeavors.
 
2012-10-04 02:39:17 PM  

qorkfiend: Jim_Callahan: The late September survey included 3,660 doctors nationwide in 50 states. The physicians identified themselves as 24 percent Democrat; 35 percent Republican; 26 percent Independent; 6 percent Libertarian; and 7 percent unaffiliated.

OK, actually giving a sample size, and the name of the company doing the survey. That's good.

Jackson & Coker, a division of Jackson Healthcare

Performed by an organization with a massive inherent bias toward getting Obamacare (specifically, overhead restrictions and pre-existing condition coverage requirements) revoked, bit of a red flag there, maybe if they give us a brief overview of their randomization/blind selection procedure?

This survey was conducted online from September 11 to September 28, 2012. A total of 3,660 respondents completed the survey. The error range for this survey at the 95 percent confidence level is +/- 1.6 percent.

Self-selected online response? Really? Was a facebook game installed off a "punch the monkey" ad on a porn site too legit for them? Crashing a Tea Party convention not enough selection bias? Hell, even making shiat up off the top of your head is more statistically reliable than that.

Though apparently they decided to make shiat up off the top of their head, too, since they gave a self-selected poll a 1.6% error range.

±1.6% seems about right for a sample of that size.


That's not the sample size. That's the number of people who decided to reply.

How to Read a Poll

Opinion polls, like other surveys, are a way of inferring the characteristics of a large group-called "the population"-from a small sample of it. In order for this inference to be cogent, the sample must accurately represent the population. Thus, the main error to avoid is an unrepresentative sample. For example, the most famous polling fiasco was the Literary Digest poll in the 1936 presidential election. The magazine surveyed over two million people, chosen from the magazine's subscriber list, phone books, and car registrations. Even though the sample was enormous, it was unrepresentative of the population of voters because not everyone could afford a phone or car during the Depression, and those who could tended to vote Republican in greater numbers than those who couldn't. As a result of this biased sample, the poll showed Republican Alf Landon beating the actual winner, Democrat Franklin Roosevelt.
 
2012-10-04 02:40:30 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: propasaurus: The physicians identified themselves as 24 percent Democrat; 35 percent Republican; 26 percent Independent; 6 percent Libertarian; and 7 percent unaffiliated.

I think any practicing doctor who self-identifies as libertarian should be forced to indicate that when you go to see him.

/wouldn't want to be treated by a hypocrite or an idiot


I just assume where it says '35 percent Republican; 26 percent Independent; 6 percent libertarian' it really means 67% Republican.
 
2012-10-04 02:41:56 PM  

qorkfiend: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)

You did not answer the question. IF COST EXCEEDS REVENUE HOW DO YOU KEEP THE DOORS OPEN?


If your costs as a doctor (basic supplies and equipment, reoccurring, annual, and labor costs) exceed profits, you go out of business. That's called the free market.

I can't see how this basic premise isn't understood by you?

Good, so you do understand that medicine is a business like any other business and that there needs to be a revenue stream that pays for expenses (including salaries). I thought maybe you believed physicians should work for free.



No, as I stated in my original post, they need to be paid a fair and healthy salary. If you cannot control the costs of your business, you don't deserve to be in business.

Non-profit healthcare doesn't have to be non-paid healthcare. The 503c just deems that nobody but the non-profit gets to keep the gains. It goes back into the entity for overhead, and costs.

The board of 3 or more votes the salary of the staff and their own. Simple as that.

But I am interested in why you believe physician practices should be run as non-profit organizations.

I am interested in why you believe physician practices should be solely for-profit endeavors.


Well, isn't that what they currently are? At least the majority? How would you propose converting them to non-profits?
 
2012-10-04 02:42:52 PM  

Jim_Callahan: that bosnian sniper: What, doctors are unhappy with the idea they may not be able to truck patients off to the hospital for tons of costly and unnecessary procedures then watch the checks roll it, or take kickbacks (I'm sorry, "incentives" and "bonuses") from big pharma for pushing designer meds?

Color me shocked.

Doctors mostly order unnecessary tests because otherwise they'll get lawsuited into oblivion.

Don't like it? Push your legislator to take up tort reform as an issue. Obama's on it, so it's not like it's a right-wing-only deal.


DRINK!!
 
2012-10-04 03:00:49 PM  

propasaurus:
Doctors mostly order unnecessary tests because otherwise they'll get lawsuited into oblivion.

Don't like it? Push your legislator to take up tort reform as an issue. Obama's on it, so it's not like it's a right-wing-only deal.

DRINK!!


Meh, the argument that "tort reform won't help costs" is generally based on setting up your problem as "take the amount the average doctor spends on lawsuits. convert to a per-patient basis. Treat this as percentage of per-patient cost."

Which ignores several things:
- Malpractice insurance costs a lot more than most doctors spend on legal defense on average by definition (otherwise you'd have a broke-ass insurance company.
- The secondary cost of over-testing by doctors to avoid lawsuits
- The secondary cost of overtesting demanded by insurance companies to avoid lawsuits (well, and also launder money, obviously, those guys are sleazy as all hell)
- Work-hours lost to lawsuits when they do happen. That'd be the doctor and often several nurses that can't get anything done for a week, while they still have to be paid.
- Attrition due to frustration from lawsuits and insurance paperwork, which removes doctors from the supply pool without altering demand.

So, yes, actually it's a component of what's needed for reform. Albeit it needs to be attacked in a sane way, a lot of reform efforts have just tried to arbitrarily make doctors immune to being sued, which just screws over the patients instead. A better solution is what Obamacare is going with, as described in the debate: a national set of recommended best practices approved by the government. Were you actually following all the best practices? Did you document it? All right, any lawsuit based on bullshiat rather than a genuine grievance just got very, very hard to prosecute.

One of the things I like about Obama is that he tends to attack issues from a system integrity angle rather than a patch-the-obvious-leak angle, which I think serves us well in the long term.

//The other good idea I've heard is that lawyers have to get any lawsuit reviewed by a _practicing_ doctor rather than a non-practicing "expert" before filing. That'd cut down the necessity of expensive hedging as well.
//The bigger part of the costs problem is private insurance, but we couldn't even get the supposed lefties to so much as mention single-payer during the writing of the HCR bill, so we kinda blew that one.
//Policy opinions, I has 'em.
 
2012-10-04 03:03:18 PM  

badaboom: SGR is the main issue concerning physicians:


The best part about the SGR:

www.nndb.com

This is the guy that came up with it.
 
2012-10-04 03:10:07 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: qorkfiend: Jim_Callahan: The late September survey included 3,660 doctors nationwide in 50 states. The physicians identified themselves as 24 percent Democrat; 35 percent Republican; 26 percent Independent; 6 percent Libertarian; and 7 percent unaffiliated.

OK, actually giving a sample size, and the name of the company doing the survey. That's good.

Jackson & Coker, a division of Jackson Healthcare

Performed by an organization with a massive inherent bias toward getting Obamacare (specifically, overhead restrictions and pre-existing condition coverage requirements) revoked, bit of a red flag there, maybe if they give us a brief overview of their randomization/blind selection procedure?

This survey was conducted online from September 11 to September 28, 2012. A total of 3,660 respondents completed the survey. The error range for this survey at the 95 percent confidence level is +/- 1.6 percent.

Self-selected online response? Really? Was a facebook game installed off a "punch the monkey" ad on a porn site too legit for them? Crashing a Tea Party convention not enough selection bias? Hell, even making shiat up off the top of your head is more statistically reliable than that.

Though apparently they decided to make shiat up off the top of their head, too, since they gave a self-selected poll a 1.6% error range.

±1.6% seems about right for a sample of that size.

That's not the sample size. That's the number of people who decided to reply.

How to Read a Poll

Opinion polls, like other surveys, are a way of inferring the characteristics of a large group-called "the population"-from a small sample of it. In order for this inference to be cogent, the sample must accurately represent the population. Thus, the main error to avoid is an unrepresentative sample. For example, the most famous polling fiasco was the Literary Digest poll in the 1936 presidential election. The magazine surveyed over two million people, chosen from the magazine's subscriber list, phone b ...


If you'd read my post, you'd realize I didn't say anything about if the sample was representative of the population or not. All I did was point out that if you plug 3660 responses out of a population of 330 million into the margin of error formula, you get a margin of error around 1.6%, so that's probably what the "statisticians" at NewsMax did.
 
2012-10-04 03:24:13 PM  
Doctors, unlike Democrats, actually do want what's best and benefits the most people.

Hence, why most of them are Republicans.
 
2012-10-04 03:51:57 PM  

Generation_D: 51 y.o. checking in. Doctors and dentists are as a class very slanted righty. I've been to offices that were all Republican, bootstrappy types. I had a dentist do the thing where you're prone in the chair while they talk negative politics about Democrats.

I'm to the point where the hell with doctors talking politics, honestly.


Every doctor I remember speaking to at length was for single payer healthcare (granted, all were in New York). Not that either of the two sides are for this, but there's no way Romney would ever go for that.
 
2012-10-04 03:53:34 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every time I'm in the chair my dentist biatches to me about how the Democrats are going to force him out of business with their taxes and requiring him to have malpractice insurance. Except the last time, where we talked about why he made the choice to ditch his Porsche 911 Carrera 4S Cabrio for an Aston Martin DB9 Volante.


You should tell him it's not the Democrats requiring him to have malpractice insurance...it's your lawyer, for the day you decide you're tired of paying for HIS fancy car and want one of your own.
 
2012-10-04 04:07:07 PM  
In a related story, 55% of doctors are greedy and care about money over helping people.
 
2012-10-04 04:08:42 PM  

qorkfiend: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)

You did not answer the question. IF COST EXCEEDS REVENUE HOW DO YOU KEEP THE DOORS OPEN?


If your costs as a doctor (basic supplies and equipment, reoccurring, annual, and labor costs) exceed profits, you go out of business. That's called the free market.

I can't see how this basic premise isn't understood by you?

Good, so you do understand that medicine is a business like any other business and that there needs to be a revenue stream that pays for expenses (including salaries). I thought maybe you believed physicians should work for free.



No, as I stated in my original post, they need to be paid a fair and healthy salary. If you cannot control the costs of your business, you don't deserve to be in business.

Non-profit healthcare doesn't have to be non-paid healthcare. The 503c just deems that nobody but the non-profit gets to keep the gains. It goes back into the entity for overhead, and costs.

The board of 3 or more votes the salary of the staff and their own. Simple as that.

But I am interested in why you believe physician practices should be run as non-profit organizations.

I am interested in why you believe physician practices should be solely for-profit endeavors.


If you cannot see why profiting on the backs of the sick and dying is wrong, there is nothing I can say or do to convince you.
 
2012-10-04 04:24:42 PM  

OrygunFarker: qorkfiend: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: badaboom: OrygunFarker: This just in:


Most doctors care more about profits than the well being of people. Ask those who no longer accept Medicare/Medicaid.

This just in:

Most landlords expect rent to be paid.

Most employees expect a pay check at the end of the week

Electricity costs money. Supplies cost money. Computers cost money.

If costs exceed revenue how would you propose a physician pay for these things? Volunteer?

Non-Profit. Pay yourself a salary of fair compensation.

Like the rest of the modernized world does it. (UK, Sweden, France, Germany, You still need more?)

You did not answer the question. IF COST EXCEEDS REVENUE HOW DO YOU KEEP THE DOORS OPEN?


If your costs as a doctor (basic supplies and equipment, reoccurring, annual, and labor costs) exceed profits, you go out of business. That's called the free market.

I can't see how this basic premise isn't understood by you?

Good, so you do understand that medicine is a business like any other business and that there needs to be a revenue stream that pays for expenses (including salaries). I thought maybe you believed physicians should work for free.



No, as I stated in my original post, they need to be paid a fair and healthy salary. If you cannot control the costs of your business, you don't deserve to be in business.

Non-profit healthcare doesn't have to be non-paid healthcare. The 503c just deems that nobody but the non-profit gets to keep the gains. It goes back into the entity for overhead, and costs.

The board of 3 or more votes the salary of the staff and their own. Simple as that.

But I am interested in why you believe physician practices should be run as non-profit organizations.

I am interested in why you believe physician practices should be solely for-profit endeavors.

If you cannot see why profiting on the backs of the sick and dying is wrong, there is nothing I can say or do to convinc ...


People need food to survive. Should all farmers/grocery stores etc be non-profit?

People need shelter to survive. Should the housing industry be non-profit?
 
2012-10-04 04:28:32 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Meh, the argument that "tort reform won't help costs" is generally based on setting up your problem as "take the amount the average doctor spends on lawsuits. convert to a per-patient basis. Treat this as percentage of per-patient cost."

Which ignores several things:
- Malpractice insurance costs a lot more than most doctors spend on legal defense on average by definition (otherwise you'd have a broke-ass insurance company.
- The secondary cost of over-testing by doctors to avoid lawsuits
- The secondary cost of overtesting demanded by insurance companies to avoid lawsuits (well, and also launder money, obviously, those guys are sleazy as all hell)
- Work-hours lost to lawsuits when they do happen. That'd be the doctor and often several nurses that can't get anything done for a week, while they still have to be paid.
- Attrition due to frustration from lawsuits and insurance paperwork, which removes doctors from the supply pool without altering demand.


Enacting tort reform lowers the number of unnecessary procedures or malpractice insurance? That'll be news to any one of the dozen states that have enacted tort reform and haven't seen either. Maybe it's like trickle-down economics and takes 35 years to show results.
 
2012-10-04 04:34:12 PM  

badaboom: People need food to survive. Should all farmers/grocery stores etc be non-profit?

People need shelter to survive. Should the housing industry be non-profit?


How many times have you ever heard of someone being driven into bankruptcy because of a trip to Food Lion or over a rent check?
 
2012-10-04 04:53:19 PM  

Karac: badaboom: People need food to survive. Should all farmers/grocery stores etc be non-profit?

People need shelter to survive. Should the housing industry be non-profit?

How many times have you ever heard of someone being driven into bankruptcy because of a trip to Food Lion or over a rent check?


But that is not what we are talking about. What we are talking about is making an entire industry that is currently for profit and making it non-profit. A doctors office is no different than any other business. They have overhead. And they have expenses. SGR wants to lower reimbursement/revenue by 30% overnight. What business can survive that?

Physicians have sounded the alarm. If SGR is implemented there will be a mass exodus of doctors willing to take Medicare. Link

Why would they stop taking Medicare? Not because they are "evil" or "greedy" but because NO ONE would run a business where your product costs a $1 and your remuneration is 50 cents.
 
2012-10-04 05:01:42 PM  
100% of the ICU nurses living in my house say they're voting for Obama.
 
2012-10-04 05:09:56 PM  

badaboom: Karac: badaboom: People need food to survive. Should all farmers/grocery stores etc be non-profit?

People need shelter to survive. Should the housing industry be non-profit?

How many times have you ever heard of someone being driven into bankruptcy because of a trip to Food Lion or over a rent check?

But that is not what we are talking about. What we are talking about is making an entire industry that is currently for profit and making it non-profit. A doctors office is no different than any other business. They have overhead. And they have expenses. SGR wants to lower reimbursement/revenue by 30% overnight. What business can survive that?

Physicians have sounded the alarm. If SGR is implemented there will be a mass exodus of doctors willing to take Medicare. Link

Why would they stop taking Medicare? Not because they are "evil" or "greedy" but because NO ONE would run a business where your product costs a $1 and your remuneration is 50 cents.


You are a moronic troll who does not understand the difference between cost loss, sustainable not-for-profit, limited profit, and unlimited profit motive business models. You fail at life, and I suspect your bank accounts are a mess. Don't forget to pay your minimum balance on those credit cards so you can keep using them! PROFIT!WIN!
 
2012-10-04 05:57:33 PM  

randomjsa: Doctors, unlike Democrats, actually do want what's best and benefits the most people.

Hence, why most of them are Republicans.



Says the party running the country off the fiscal cliff, blocking any legislation from passing, and saying from day one their goal is to make 0bama a one term President

They really do want what's best for the country! And they care about THE MOST people! Honest!
 
2012-10-04 06:06:42 PM  

herrDrFarkenstein: badaboom: Karac: badaboom: People need food to survive. Should all farmers/grocery stores etc be non-profit?

People need shelter to survive. Should the housing industry be non-profit?

How many times have you ever heard of someone being driven into bankruptcy because of a trip to Food Lion or over a rent check?

But that is not what we are talking about. What we are talking about is making an entire industry that is currently for profit and making it non-profit. A doctors office is no different than any other business. They have overhead. And they have expenses. SGR wants to lower reimbursement/revenue by 30% overnight. What business can survive that?

Physicians have sounded the alarm. If SGR is implemented there will be a mass exodus of doctors willing to take Medicare. Link

Why would they stop taking Medicare? Not because they are "evil" or "greedy" but because NO ONE would run a business where your product costs a $1 and your remuneration is 50 cents.

You are a moronic troll who does not understand the difference between cost loss, sustainable not-for-profit, limited profit, and unlimited profit motive business models. You fail at life, and I suspect your bank accounts are a mess. Don't forget to pay your minimum balance on those credit cards so you can keep using them! PROFIT!WIN!



Simple question: What do you think physicians will do when Medicare reimbursement goes down 30%?
 
2012-10-04 06:07:31 PM  

intelligent comment below: randomjsa: Doctors, unlike Democrats, actually do want what's best and benefits the most people.

Hence, why most of them are Republicans.


Says the party running the country off the fiscal cliff, blocking any legislation from passing, and saying from day one their goal is to make 0bama a one term President

They really do want what's best for the country! And they care about THE MOST people! Honest!


No, they just redefined people to be wealth white males and very rich minorities.
 
2012-10-04 06:36:37 PM  
My optometrist's office is only stocked with two magazines: Christian propaganda/conversion stuff and National Review.
He wasn't this way 5 years ago, but he's circling the abyss for sure.

I did get a second opinion for my eyes, to be honest I do question the mental faculties of someone that devolved so much in such a short amount of time. 
He does think Obama is coming for him or at least his money.
 
2012-10-04 07:12:28 PM  

hypocaffeinemia: 100% of the ICU nurses living in my house say they're voting for Obama.


100% of the doctor I know is voting for Obama.
 
2012-10-04 07:19:13 PM  

Mija: My doctor wrote a letter and sent it to all his patients. It went on and on about our duty to provide health care to everyone, especially the poor and how wvil he thinks Republicans are. My doctor is a wonderful human being.


I'm a doc and a Democrat, so are most of the docs that work in my office. The kind of doctor you are matters a lot. Plastics docs, the ortho docs, the neurosurgeons, the interventional cardiologists etc. make upwards of $750,000 to a million a year, do not know their patients at all, and tend to vote their pocketbook.

Family practice, pediatrics, internal medicine, geriatrics and oncology etc work 60 hours a week and have known their patients for many years, with some of them being like family. They tend to factor in the best thing for the patients when they vote. They also usually make far less a year, in the $150-200k range and are trying to make enough to put their kids through college rather than funnel their cash to the Cayman Islands.
 
2012-10-04 07:30:29 PM  

whitman00: Mija: My doctor wrote a letter and sent it to all his patients. It went on and on about our duty to provide health care to everyone, especially the poor and how wvil he thinks Republicans are. My doctor is a wonderful human being.

I'm a doc and a Democrat, so are most of the docs that work in my office. The kind of doctor you are matters a lot. Plastics docs, the ortho docs, the neurosurgeons, the interventional cardiologists etc. make upwards of $750,000 to a million a year, do not know their patients at all, and tend to vote their pocketbook.

Family practice, pediatrics, internal medicine, geriatrics and oncology etc work 60 hours a week and have known their patients for many years, with some of them being like family. They tend to factor in the best thing for the patients when they vote. They also usually make far less a year, in the $150-200k range and are trying to make enough to put their kids through college rather than funnel their cash to the Cayman Islands.


So the more money someone makes, the less moral they are?
 
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