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(Daily Mail)   Cool: Bagging a Groupon deal to drive a rare Ferrari for $50. Not Cool: Crashing into a BMW. Fark: Your insurance has a 'Never pay' clause in the fine print   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 22
    More: Fail, Ferrari, Groupon, Religious Fanaticism, weight reduction  
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24726 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Oct 2012 at 2:17 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-04 08:18:48 AM  
4 votes:

BostonEMT: no. Obviously what you think gives your identity any substance is the fact that you're smug enough to announce to everyone that your identity is not tied to your car.... it IS however tied to your need for other people to 'see' your opinion and give you attention.


Actually, I don't get it either.

I used to be an automotive design engineer. Don't get me wrong; I worked hard at it and I'm proud of the jobs I did. But I think car enthusiasts have little idea what goes on in those meetings. We're not talking about how to get the maximum power:weight ratio or how we're gonna beat our competitors on the track. Actually, the specs are determined in advance, based on marketing, and the engineers do their best to design to them. Then there are a lot of meetings about fixing flaws and how to save (no exaggeration) two cents on a wire harness. The conversations I have about what cars are well-designed or well-made are very different from those of garage junkies.

I know firsthand these things are NOT labors of love. Yes, the marketers are trying to come up with an idea you'll like, but it's based less on genuine enthusiasm and more about some rather derogatory opinions of what they'll think you'll eat up. I'd like to tell them you guys are better than that, but it turns out consumer behavior is depressingly easy to predict. That's not to say the result isn't quality product, I'm just really trying to say, the vast majority of designs are really not worthy of anyone say, "Man, that car is awesome." You know who works on the luxury/sports models? Rookies and deadbeats. Why? Because they're easy. Smaller teams, free-spending customers, fewer trim levels, higher budgets. There's still plenty of pressure from above but there's also more breathing room to screw up a detail or two. The best engineers are actually assigned to the economy and flagship models, because it's much tougher to make a $15k car profitable than get a $60k model to perform.

Hopefully that's a "Wizard of Oz" moment, but I fear people will prefer to close the curtain, forget what they saw and go back to a state of awe.
2012-10-04 12:35:15 AM  
4 votes:
Not sure how Switzerland works, but I would think anybody renting out Ferraris would require you to buy a short-term policy with their own insurance company.
2012-10-04 03:50:37 AM  
3 votes:

Shadow Blasko: So... Progressive, or Geico?


I've never had a problem with Geico.

Progressive however...almost two years ago I was rear ended by a woman who was insured by Progressive. I was at a stand still in heavy non moving traffic and she was not paying attention and rear ended me at 50mph. My car was totaled, I was the first of five cars that she took out, I had 9 broken bones, plus neck and head injuries. Medical bills came to over $40,000. My health insurance said "Car wreck, Progressive pays, not us." Progressive met with my lawyer and said "Okay, we will pay Great Janitor $28,000." My lawyer said "Your policy has a pay cap of $100,000. Great Janitor has over $40,000 in medical debt and lost the use of his right shoulder. I want the entire cap." It settled at $98,000. Then my health insurer put a hold on the settlement, making sure that they got paid first. The lawyer then argued with my health insurer to lower the debt, no luck. So I walked away with a little over $30,000.

I now work in the insurance industry. I've seen the never pay clause before and quite often. Typically it's hidden as an exclusion. The worst is life insurance policies. I've seen some that have so many exclusions that you realize it will never actually pay out, but people get these policies to protect them from the financial damage caused by an untimely death. Slimiest was the company that sold a cancer policy to a man who already had a policy and had cancer. The salesman said "This will pay out in the event of cancer death, paying your loved ones more money." Then on the first page of the policy "Does not pay in the event of cancer death." When suing an insurance company, the judge doesn't care about what the salesman told you when you bought the policy, what matters is what is in writing. The saddest part of all of this is that most people when they get insurance policies, rarely ever read them. Get car insurance, just put the proof into your car and go. Life insurance, almost every time I ask to see a would be client's current life insurance policy it is in their lock box (good) still in the shrink wrap (very bad). That's when I open it and go over the exclusions to show them what they are paying for and how unlikely their current policy is to pay out.

Now I'm out of the life insurance business and moved to health insurance. When Obamacare was passed some people cheered, some people complained, I got my license to sell health insurance.
2012-10-04 03:16:06 AM  
3 votes:
What moron rents out a Ferrari without making sure it's properly insured?
2012-10-04 05:07:53 AM  
2 votes:
A car is a tool to get me from point A to point B reliably and safely. It will only decrease in value; frankly, I prefer to let other people eat that cost. My identity is not so insubstantial that I need to shore it up with a decaying hunk of metal and plastic.
2012-10-04 03:21:35 AM  
2 votes:
This is why people dislike insurance companies.
2012-10-04 09:16:11 AM  
1 votes:

Incetardis:
Me? No kids. Don't want 'em and (for now) neither does the wife-to-be. So toys and savings. I really want to put a blower on mine but tuning isn't sorted out yet thanks to Chrysler locking out the ECU's, which is because of the diesel truck crowd making warranty claims after running their Cummins up to quadruple digit torque.
.

Scariest/most awesome/ definite "Hey Ya'll, hold my beer and watch this" moment for me was when one of my coworkers showed off his S10.
He got it to push 1200ft/lbs. on a four cylinder. It was such a beast, he had 'boggers just to keep it from skipping sideways.

Seriously, 1k+ torque? Damn.
2012-10-04 08:33:37 AM  
1 votes:

dragonchild: Hopefully that's a "Wizard of Oz" moment, but I fear people will prefer to close the curtain, forget what they saw and go back to a state of awe.


A lot of what you say there is true, especially at large (and even more so American) car makers. But, it's not true across the board. Lots of even the big Euro car makers have separate design arms for their sportier models (AMG, Skunkworks, Abarth....) and others are strictly dedicated to making cars that enthusiasts like (Lotus comes to mind, there are others but they get pretty pricey and less relevant). Even Nissan with its GT-R project goes to great lengths to design something special. Only 5 engineers at Nissan are allowed to build them, and they build each one personally. Word is that they lose money on every one (if word can ever be believed).

So yeah, if your buying an SS Camaro or some such crap, I agree with you. But, there are still cool cars out there, that were genuine labors of love by their makers.
2012-10-04 04:56:37 AM  
1 votes:

foxyshadis: Father_Jack: clear_prop: Assuming the pics were taken soon after the accident, a 23 yo in a Ferrari in the farking RAIN is a disaster on wheels. I'm surprised he made it 15 minutes.

to be fair, this is switzerland, where it rains more often than it doesnt.

swiss insurance in regards to driving is very hard core. the speed limits here are artificially low and there are radar boxes EVERYWHERE. people get these huge tickets for relatively light infractions... a colleague of mine got a 1600 CHF fine (CHF=1USD more or less) for going 16kph over the speed limit. For the americans on the thread, that's like a 1600buck fine for doing 75 in a 65 mph zone, like say on the freeway.

if youre in a motorcycle crash and youre not dressed appropriately, the insurance companies can deny portions of your medical bills. (ie, if youd been wearing armor and leather, you wouldnt need that skin graft, too bad, your fault, heres your 300,000 medical bill) and they can withhold wages till you pay it off.

based on these precedents, it wouldnt surprise me that the ins. would deny this kid if he was speeding. as such, his life is probably basically over financially for the next 10 years, provided he gets a six figure income. lower than that, even longer.

It's hard to believe that things are so absolutely opposite right next door in Germany, where 40-50kph over (on an appropriate freeway) is something like a 25 euro fine. I'm not saying I don't believe you, it's just mind-boggling that there's anyplace even more Nazi than America about arbitrary speed enforcement.


Yep.

The colleague who told me the sotry about getting ganked for 1600 CHF said exactly that... he got the same ticket in munich for 35 euros.

i got a ticket... on a scooter.... doing 58 in a 50kph zone. 120 CHF. (100 euros) when i shared this information the guys at the table all said "lucky you had that 2kph under, otherwise there wouldve probably been another 0 on that ticket".

This is one of the hardest things for germans who come down here to get used to: the terrible granny driving. And, if you're over a certain amount above the speed limit, the fine isnt fixed, rather, a % of your income. This is so if Sheikh Hamad al ibn hamad bin sasasfrass in Geneva on the way to the oil summit blows past a speed cam doing 120 in a 50kph zone, they can milk his ass for enough money that it causes dipolomatic incidents involving embassys.

In related real news, recently in a tabloid was the report of a swedish billionaire's son doing 260kph on the Olten-Bern autobahn in some sweet top of the line limited edition mercedes . They confiscated his car.

Switzerland: Europe's Singapore.
2012-10-04 04:19:03 AM  
1 votes:

Father_Jack: clear_prop: Assuming the pics were taken soon after the accident, a 23 yo in a Ferrari in the farking RAIN is a disaster on wheels. I'm surprised he made it 15 minutes.

to be fair, this is switzerland, where it rains more often than it doesnt.

swiss insurance in regards to driving is very hard core. the speed limits here are artificially low and there are radar boxes EVERYWHERE. people get these huge tickets for relatively light infractions... a colleague of mine got a 1600 CHF fine (CHF=1USD more or less) for going 16kph over the speed limit. For the americans on the thread, that's like a 1600buck fine for doing 75 in a 65 mph zone, like say on the freeway.

if youre in a motorcycle crash and youre not dressed appropriately, the insurance companies can deny portions of your medical bills. (ie, if youd been wearing armor and leather, you wouldnt need that skin graft, too bad, your fault, heres your 300,000 medical bill) and they can withhold wages till you pay it off.

based on these precedents, it wouldnt surprise me that the ins. would deny this kid if he was speeding. as such, his life is probably basically over financially for the next 10 years, provided he gets a six figure income. lower than that, even longer.


It's hard to believe that things are so absolutely opposite right next door in Germany, where 40-50kph over (on an appropriate freeway) is something like a 25 euro fine. I'm not saying I don't believe you, it's just mind-boggling that there's anyplace even more Nazi than America about arbitrary speed enforcement.
2012-10-04 03:38:21 AM  
1 votes:
FTA: "Although baker Vogel had full insurance for the drive, small print says it would be invalid if he was exceeding the speed limit."

How exactly did Subby read that as "never pay"?
2012-10-04 03:27:08 AM  
1 votes:

Incetardis: Damn, that's a shame


It was a sweet ride, while it lasted. I think half the reason he got an article 15 was because our CO and first shirt both loved muscle cars (CO drove a '66 Mustang convertible and the shirt had a Buick 442 he was restoring, IIRC)

The full story is actually much more epic. Obviously you generally can't just run out and buy a car like that off the lot. It was a long, drawn out process over the course of 2-3 months where he got the car, worked with the shop to rebuild it to his specs, had them redo shiat, etc. Blew one engine while he had it out on a test drive while they were still working on it, took a couple of weeks for them to replace that. And of course he would not stop talking about it the whole time, and he had his work area plastered with cobrajet shiat (models, posters, magazine clippings, you name it). It was a veritable shrine. Then FINALLY when it was done and he took final delivery it took him less than 72 hours to wrap it around a tree.

I couldn't tell you his real name now if my life depended on it. Everybody was calling him Sgt. Cobrajet long before he even blew the first engine, and that's how I will always remember him.
2012-10-04 03:19:20 AM  
1 votes:

clear_prop: Assuming the pics were taken soon after the accident, a 23 yo in a Ferrari in the farking RAIN is a disaster on wheels. I'm surprised he made it 15 minutes.


to be fair, this is switzerland, where it rains more often than it doesnt.

swiss insurance in regards to driving is very hard core. the speed limits here are artificially low and there are radar boxes EVERYWHERE. people get these huge tickets for relatively light infractions... a colleague of mine got a 1600 CHF fine (CHF=1USD more or less) for going 16kph over the speed limit. For the americans on the thread, that's like a 1600buck fine for doing 75 in a 65 mph zone, like say on the freeway.

if youre in a motorcycle crash and youre not dressed appropriately, the insurance companies can deny portions of your medical bills. (ie, if youd been wearing armor and leather, you wouldnt need that skin graft, too bad, your fault, heres your 300,000 medical bill) and they can withhold wages till you pay it off.

based on these precedents, it wouldnt surprise me that the ins. would deny this kid if he was speeding. as such, his life is probably basically over financially for the next 10 years, provided he gets a six figure income. lower than that, even longer.
2012-10-04 03:05:34 AM  
1 votes:
Damn, that's a shame. Not big on the Fords (Mopar or No Car) but the Torino's are farking beautiful machines if you like the land yachts.

I had some good practice on the Jeep in 2WD (rarely needed 4WD on the street) most seasons trying to tame Edmonton's shiat roads, but since she left the driveway and got replaced by the Challenger...it's learning all over again. Lots of 3am coffee trips with full ESP off (the tech savvy equivalent of "Bubba hold mah beer") to get the hang of things before the power adders come along. Already snagged a prototype ECU that disables torque management, and it's like driving a different vehicle.

Still, the more confident I get if it rains, I'm a total baby on the skinny pedal. Not worth the risk.
2012-10-04 03:03:58 AM  
1 votes:

clyph: Shadow Blasko: So... Progressive, or Geico?

Been with Geico for many, many years. Never had an at-fault accident with them, but have had cars hit by other people under that policy, glass damage, etc. Never a quibble about paying out. One they even me to go to a different (more expensive) body shop, because they had gotten too many complaints about the quality of the work at the one I had gotten a quote from.


My ex was hit two weeks ago by another driver. Both are insured by Geico. They are claiming that he never transferred his insurance to his new car (that he had for almost a year) and that she was not authorized to be driving the car she bought less than a month before. Her car, her insurance, her finance.

They are refusing to pay either claim.
2012-10-04 02:53:53 AM  
1 votes:

Incetardis: Assuming the responders weren't completely inept...look at the ground. If indeed he was speeding, on slick roads...what a farking tool. You better have the skills to back up your idiocy or ANY RWD sport/muscle car will chew you up and spit you out.


THIS.

A tool in my AF unit inherited some money and blew most of it on a beautifully restored, souped up '72 Torino from the local hot rod shop. Totaled it within 3 days, messed himself up, and got an article 15 to boot.
2012-10-04 02:49:41 AM  
1 votes:
My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.
2012-10-04 02:47:27 AM  
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: So... Progressive, or Geico?


Been with Geico for many, many years. Never had an at-fault accident with them, but have had cars hit by other people under that policy, glass damage, etc. Never a quibble about paying out. One they even me to go to a different (more expensive) body shop, because they had gotten too many complaints about the quality of the work at the one I had gotten a quote from.
2012-10-04 02:29:13 AM  
1 votes:
Assuming the pics were taken soon after the accident, a 23 yo in a Ferrari in the farking RAIN is a disaster on wheels. I'm surprised he made it 15 minutes.
2012-10-04 02:26:31 AM  
1 votes:
Assuming the responders weren't completely inept...look at the ground. If indeed he was speeding, on slick roads...what a farking tool. You better have the skills to back up your idiocy or ANY RWD sport/muscle car will chew you up and spit you out.
2012-10-04 02:21:03 AM  
1 votes:

mr_a: Not sure how Switzerland works, but I would think anybody renting out Ferraris would require you to buy a short-term policy with their own insurance company.


The fine print in that contract would probably have been the same as the one in this guy's actual insurance, i.e., no speeding.
2012-10-04 02:10:42 AM  
1 votes:
It's Cameron's fault. He should have stopped Ferris from taking the car out of dad's garage...
 
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