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(The Atlantic)   It's been twenty years and three hours since Sinead O'Connor ripped up that picture of the Pope, and she's finally gotten her redemption. Though she basically went insane and never looked back 'cause NOTHING COMPARES 2 U   (theatlantic.com) divider line 94
    More: Followup, Sinead O'Connor, Richard Roeper, state religion, business acumen, Irish people, Pope John Paul II, labor camp, SNL  
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4844 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 04 Oct 2012 at 5:38 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-03 08:46:49 PM  
Uh oh.....

i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-10-03 08:49:43 PM  
By now, the history of sexual and physical abuse in the Irish Catholic school system is familiar. As late as 2007, the Church controlled 93% of the schools in Ireland, giving most children no hope of escaping the often-sadistic system

Wow.

It was sad to see her star obliterated after her SNL showing. I liked her music.

At age 15, Sinead O'Connor was caught shoplifting and was sent to an institution much like those investigated in the Commission Report, a Magdalene laundry full of teenage girls who had been judged too promiscuous or uncooperative for civil society. "We worked in the basement, washing priests' clothes in sinks with cold water and bars of soap," O'Connor has written of her experience. "We studied math and typing. We had limited contact with our families. We earned no wages. One of the nuns, at least, was kind to me and gave me my first guitar." On the grounds of one Dublin Magdalene laundry, a mass grave was uncovered which included 22 unidentified bodies. These institutions have since caught the eye of the United Nations Committee against Torture.

After 18 months, with the help of her father, O'Connor escaped from this brutal system. Very quickly, her voice carried her to stardom. Her former captors were the "enemy" O'Connor spoke of when, as a 25-year-old with a once-in-a-lifetime live television audience, she tore the picture of the Pope and exhorted her viewers to "fight" him. The picture she tore, in fact, had belonged to her abusive mother, then already dead. "The photo itself had been on my mother's bedroom wall since the day the farker was enthroned in 1978," she told the Irish magazine Hot Press in 2010.


Redemption? One can only hope.
 
2012-10-03 09:01:30 PM  
Sinead was insane? Who knew?

/Certainly not her.
 
2012-10-03 09:05:31 PM  

Nadie_AZ: It was sad to see her star obliterated after her SNL showing. I liked her music.


I remember seeing it live and thinking, "what the f*ck...?"

Followed shortly by, "holy sh*t she just did that on live TV."
 
2012-10-03 09:24:26 PM  
Yeah, but she's not really hittable anymore, so no one cares.
 
2012-10-03 09:36:03 PM  
What always pissed me off about the pope ripping picture stunt was the idea that in her mind this was fine but 2 years earlier she boycotted a SNL show because Andrew Dice Clay told some pussy jokes.
 
2012-10-03 09:41:35 PM  

PhiloeBedoe: What always pissed me off about the pope ripping picture stunt was the idea that in her mind this was fine but 2 years earlier she boycotted a SNL show because Andrew Dice Clay told some pussy jokes.


Didn't Nora Dunn or some other cast member boycott, too?
 
2012-10-03 09:41:56 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Yeah, but she's not really hittable anymore, so no one cares.


Rumor has it she likes the other door.
 
2012-10-03 09:42:41 PM  

PhiloeBedoe: What always pissed me off about the pope ripping picture stunt was the idea that in her mind this was fine but 2 years earlier she boycotted a SNL show because Andrew Dice Clay told some pussy jokes.


You can't see the problem in your logic? In the case of Dice, she was upset about a man spewing hateful jokes, making women his victim. In the case of the pope she was upset about the Catholic church victimizing children. Andrew Dice Clay was not trying to enlighten us to a horrible travesty that was continuing (and probably still continues). He was just doing it for gratuitous reasons, laughter, and profit.
 
2012-10-03 09:44:24 PM  

Shostie: Nadie_AZ: It was sad to see her star obliterated after her SNL showing. I liked her music.

I remember seeing it live and thinking, "what the f*ck...?"

Followed shortly by, "holy sh*t she just did that on live TV."


I remember watching it live too. I was on my way outside with some friends and then I did a double-take and was like dudes, Sinead just ripped up the Pope on TV. That's weird.
 
2012-10-03 10:07:53 PM  
I always figured it was because she's an angry feminist and a proddie?
 
2012-10-03 10:57:32 PM  

fusillade762: Didn't Nora Dunn or some other cast member boycott, too?


Yup. I think that was her last show. The behind the scenes stuff about the Dice Clay incident is quite interesting. And I'll say this for Clay; he is quite articulate and is very self-aware of his persona. I remember watching it the night he hosted and how even our local news was reporting on Dunn's dunderheadedness.
 
2012-10-03 11:03:50 PM  

The English Major: fusillade762: Didn't Nora Dunn or some other cast member boycott, too?

Yup. I think that was her last show. The behind the scenes stuff about the Dice Clay incident is quite interesting. And I'll say this for Clay; he is quite articulate and is very self-aware of his persona. I remember watching it the night he hosted and how even our local news was reporting on Dunn's dunderheadedness.


Also, it's just an act. He's a nice guy.
 
2012-10-03 11:09:07 PM  

jaylectricity: PhiloeBedoe: What always pissed me off about the pope ripping picture stunt was the idea that in her mind this was fine but 2 years earlier she boycotted a SNL show because Andrew Dice Clay told some pussy jokes.

You can't see the problem in your logic? In the case of Dice, she was upset about a man spewing hateful jokes, making women his victim. In the case of the pope she was upset about the Catholic church victimizing children. Andrew Dice Clay was not trying to enlighten us to a horrible travesty that was continuing (and probably still continues). He was just doing it for gratuitous reasons, laughter, and profit.


I'm not judging Clay's act or Sinead's protests of the Catholic Church or trying to compare or equate the two. I'm saying if you expect the right to free speech then give that same right to others, even if they do tell JOKES, that you don't agree with.
 
2012-10-03 11:11:26 PM  

PhiloeBedoe: I'm saying if you expect the right to free speech then give that same right to others, even if they do tell JOKES, that you don't agree with.


Right...free speech...the same thing she expressed by boycotting the show.
 
2012-10-03 11:40:58 PM  
I'm kinda thinking she coulda cashed her check and 15 minutes, but she did shiate (rationally or irrationally) on live TV, and she went for broke.

Most of us would choke, but everyone remembers what she did, and possibly some altar boys felt a little less alone, knowing only what they know, and still can't speak of.

If Sinead brought them a little silent support that evening, then I feel her mission has been met.


imokwiththis.jpg
 
2012-10-03 11:42:34 PM  

jaylectricity: PhiloeBedoe: I'm saying if you expect the right to free speech then give that same right to others, even if they do tell JOKES, that you don't agree with.

Right...free speech...the same thing she expressed by boycotting the show.


No, I'm pretty sure she's still just a pissy little hypocrite who wanted to take her ball and go home.
 
2012-10-03 11:48:52 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-03 11:54:11 PM  

djkutch: Rumor has it she likes the other door.


Difficult brown isn't difficult.

Or brown.

Enough lube and sitting on a garden hose for 3 hours can do wonders!
 
2012-10-04 12:02:18 AM  
She is best known for shaving her head and singing a Prince song. We've all thought enough about her
 
2012-10-04 12:03:37 AM  

PhiloeBedoe: jaylectricity: PhiloeBedoe: I'm saying if you expect the right to free speech then give that same right to others, even if they do tell JOKES, that you don't agree with.

Right...free speech...the same thing she expressed by boycotting the show.

No, I'm pretty sure she's still just a pissy little hypocrite who wanted to take her ball and go home.


None of us mind if you want to go on being delusional. Hell, I'm delusional myself. It's very satisfying at times.
 
2012-10-04 12:17:04 AM  
She was ahead of her time in that regard.
 
2012-10-04 12:29:24 AM  
It reminds me that there was a time when the Catholics were far far more influential in this country than they are now. A time that I'm glad is gone.
 
2012-10-04 03:29:45 AM  
So I guess I was the only one who remembered it from day one as being a protest against child abuse? I must've been tuned into some sort of alternate media back then or something.
 
2012-10-04 03:38:25 AM  
I remember watching it live and actually being impressed by it in a, "wow, that took balls" way. Today such an act wouldn't bat an eye but for the time, and to a 13 year old boy, it was an interesting moment. It wasn't until much later that I learned she had a justifiable issue with the Catholic Church and hence the pope and hence her action was at least marginally meaningful and not, as we would call it now, just attention whoring. I don't know if I would even classify it as comparable to radio shock-jock type stuff. That said, she knew what she was getting into and everyone is responsible for their own actions so I don't feel bad that her career tanked afterwards, that's life.
 
2012-10-04 03:46:02 AM  

CommieTaoist: I remember watching it live and actually being impressed by it in a, "wow, that took balls" way. Today such an act wouldn't bat an eye but for the time, and to a 13 year old boy, it was an interesting moment. It wasn't until much later that I learned she had a justifiable issue with the Catholic Church and hence the pope and hence her action was at least marginally meaningful and not, as we would call it now, just attention whoring. I don't know if I would even classify it as comparable to radio shock-jock type stuff. That said, she knew what she was getting into and everyone is responsible for their own actions so I don't feel bad that her career tanked afterwards, that's life.


Her career didn't tank afterwards because of that, it tanked because she never had another hit. And since her one hit was a cover, she didn't have a whole lot going for her.
 
2012-10-04 05:31:35 AM  

Lsherm: CommieTaoist: I remember watching it live and actually being impressed by it in a, "wow, that took balls" way. Today such an act wouldn't bat an eye but for the time, and to a 13 year old boy, it was an interesting moment. It wasn't until much later that I learned she had a justifiable issue with the Catholic Church and hence the pope and hence her action was at least marginally meaningful and not, as we would call it now, just attention whoring. I don't know if I would even classify it as comparable to radio shock-jock type stuff. That said, she knew what she was getting into and everyone is responsible for their own actions so I don't feel bad that her career tanked afterwards, that's life.

Her career didn't tank afterwards because of that, it tanked because she never had another hit. And since her one hit was a cover, she didn't have a whole lot going for her.


No, she her career bombed afterwards. If you remember-a few weeks later she was at Bob Dylans 30th anniversary show... She was booed off the stage. The fact is that at the Time John Paul II was very popular. Still is in fact.

His weakest part was handling of the molestation.
 
2012-10-04 06:05:17 AM  

PhiloeBedoe: What always pissed me off about the pope ripping picture stunt was the idea that in her mind this was fine but 2 years earlier she boycotted a SNL show because Andrew Dice Clay told some pussy jokes.


Read the article and if her actions don't make sense to you in context then read it again. Keep on reading until you get it.
 
2012-10-04 06:11:35 AM  

PhiloeBedoe: What always pissed me off about the pope ripping picture stunt was the idea that in her mind this was fine but 2 years earlier she boycotted a SNL show because Andrew Dice Clay told some pussy jokes.



So, she did something she thought was right, and boycotted something she thought was wrong....therefore...?

What you mean to say is, you disagree with her. Saved you some words!
 
2012-10-04 06:11:49 AM  
I always figured it was some kind of Northern Ireland Protestant/Catholic thing.

She wouldn't get too much guff for tearing up a picture of Benedict today. But John Paul II was a beloved figure. A kind of Reaganesque figure for the Catholic Church.
 
2012-10-04 06:24:26 AM  

CommieTaoist: I don't feel bad that her career tanked afterwards


Did her career tank because of that? I come from a country where everyone is basically apathiest, so I don't think what she did damaged her career here. She was always destined to be just another one hit wonder.

I was actually shocked to come across some ridiculous old biddy here a few months back who actually cared about the Catholic/Protestant thing. In this day and age, in this country (negligible Irish settlement so no emotional investment and not involved in funding and arming terrorist organisations like Americans were).

/Tell us again how countries that aid terrorists should be bombed back into the stone ages
//Go on, I could do with a laugh
 
2012-10-04 06:58:01 AM  
Issue #3: The Bald Chick. What's With Her Head?

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/the-sinatra-group/668225
 
2012-10-04 07:17:08 AM  

PhiloeBedoe: jaylectricity: PhiloeBedoe: What always pissed me off about the pope ripping picture stunt was the idea that in her mind this was fine but 2 years earlier she boycotted a SNL show because Andrew Dice Clay told some pussy jokes.

You can't see the problem in your logic? In the case of Dice, she was upset about a man spewing hateful jokes, making women his victim. In the case of the pope she was upset about the Catholic church victimizing children. Andrew Dice Clay was not trying to enlighten us to a horrible travesty that was continuing (and probably still continues). He was just doing it for gratuitous reasons, laughter, and profit.

I'm not judging Clay's act or Sinead's protests of the Catholic Church or trying to compare or equate the two. I'm saying if you expect the right to free speech then give that same right to others, even if they do tell JOKES, that you don't agree with.


Damn. Doesn't anyone understand what the "right to free speech" means anymore? It doesn't mean that you won't be criticized for what you say. It means that the government won't stop you from saying it.
 
2012-10-04 07:34:47 AM  

coco ebert: She was ahead of her time in that regard.


Kind of sad that her entire career was destroyed (well some of it was her own doing) and she was eventually proven completely right.
 
2012-10-04 07:50:56 AM  

if_i_really_have_to: CommieTaoist: I don't feel bad that her career tanked afterwards

Did her career tank because of that? I come from a country where everyone is basically apathiest, so I don't think what she did damaged her career here. She was always destined to be just another one hit wonder.


Yes. Her career there sputtered because she couldn't make it in any big markets after that.
 
2012-10-04 07:54:18 AM  
what's next, folks are going to let The Dixie Chicks explain their anti-Bush rant?

/film at 11
 
2012-10-04 07:54:51 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: coco ebert: She was ahead of her time in that regard.

Kind of sad that her entire career was destroyed (well some of it was her own doing) and she was eventually proven completely right.


I agree to an extent.

But, Prince wrote her biggest hit, and she went on to badmouth him, too. I did not think much of that. Of course, crazy is crazy. So, I don't know how much she's really to blame.

/but I do know Mandinka.....
 
2012-10-04 08:12:43 AM  

The Muthaship: I agree to an extent.

But, Prince wrote her biggest hit, and she went on to badmouth him, too. I did not think much of that. Of course, crazy is crazy. So, I don't know how much she's really to blame.

/but I do know Mandinka.....


That's why I added that it was partly her fault as well. Although the article says she was just diagnosed as bipolar so that would explain a lot.
 
2012-10-04 08:33:20 AM  
She would almost be forgiven if it weren't for her reggae album. Yeah, reggae. If there was a MST3K that did albums, they could start with that one.
 
2012-10-04 08:35:42 AM  

Asa Phelps: I always figured it was because she's an angry feminist and a proddie?


She did a very poor job of explaining her self. I was part of the vitriol against her, but 20 years later when she got around to saying WHY she did it, I sympathized completely.
 
2012-10-04 08:38:17 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I always figured it was some kind of Northern Ireland Protestant/Catholic thing.

She wouldn't get too much guff for tearing up a picture of Benedict today. But John Paul II was a beloved figure. A kind of Reaganesque figure for the Catholic Church.


JPII is still rightly revered: given the hidebound nature of the organization he loved, served and led,
he was amazingly open minded. He had a commitment to social justice and interfaith dialog that few
people in history, let alone Catholic Popes, have ever shown.

Unfortunately, he was not an administrator. He had 'field experience', but in his heart he was an
academic and a mystic. His experience in WWII and being a church leader in an officially atheistic
nation gave him a lot of hands-on skills, but it also put him outside of the group-think of the mother
church, and that meant that when he was elected Pope he had to rely on people like the current
Pope Benedict XVI to keep things running, and those men were as concerned with the protection
of the temporal and political power of the church as they were with matters of faith.

Now, I'm not going to let JPII off the hook: even as a lapsed Catholic I do great admiration for him
but in the final analysis even if he was infirm to varying degrees during the last years of his papacy,
the fact is that he had to have known about the more unsavory practices that the church was a party
to and didn't do anything about it (that we know of). He was just as much an enabler as Benedict XVI
was (Though I truly believe that Benedict XVI was a full-blown accessory to these criminal priests who
actively and knowingly protected them and is still doing so by not allowing their crimes to be
answerable to civil authorities).

It sickens me that the Church has waived their rules to fast-track JPII into sainthood because they are
pretty obviously trying to keep the faithful distracted from the real problems in the church (though,
really, the faithful don't care, which only compounds the tragedy of it all).

Any hope for reform of the church died with JPII for at least the next 2 generations (not that there was
much hope to begin with, sad to say).
 
2012-10-04 08:55:00 AM  

DjangoStonereaver: It sickens me that the Church has waived their rules to fast-track JPII into sainthood because they are
pretty obviously trying to keep the faithful distracted from the real problems in the church (though,
really, the faithful don't care, which only compounds the tragedy of it all).


I don't think it's so much not caring, as that the religion has a built-in "get out of jail free" card. When you've got a system that forgives people for committing sins, then there's no accountability for those sins. After all, it's hard to condemn someone for their actions when Jesus has forgiven them.
 
2012-10-04 09:04:03 AM  
I just got back from the Peace Wall in Belfast. The difference between the two sides is staggering.

Was not the most impressive place in Ireland but I think it was by far the most interesting.
 
2012-10-04 09:06:10 AM  

YouBWrong: PhiloeBedoe: I'm saying if you expect the right to free speech then give that same right to others, even if they do tell JOKES, that you don't agree with.

Damn. Doesn't anyone understand what the "right to free speech" means anymore? It doesn't mean that you won't be criticized for what you say. It means that the government won't stop you from saying it.


This. Unless the government is telling you that you cannot say something, you are not being denied free speech!!
 
2012-10-04 09:11:36 AM  
Cool. That means it's also the 20th anniversary of my first blowjob.

/csb
 
2012-10-04 09:15:23 AM  

LDM90: Cool. That means it's also the 20th anniversary of my first blowjob.

/csb


On a scale from 1 to 10, how old he was?
 
2012-10-04 09:26:06 AM  
To be fair, SNL has ended many, many careers.
 
2012-10-04 09:27:08 AM  

Betep: Issue #3: The Bald Chick. What's With Her Head?

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/the-sinatra-group/668225


SHINEHEAD O'CONNOR!

I remember hearing her interviewed when her first album was out and thinking she was nuts even then. But "Mandinka" is still one of the catchiest songs ever.
 
2012-10-04 09:28:43 AM  
I think the vast majority of people will continue to consider her that "crazy bald chick" and nothing more.
 
2012-10-04 09:45:42 AM  
On October 16, at a tribute concert to Bob Dylan, O'Connor faced a hostile crowd. Defiantly, she asked her band for silence and briefly attempted to reprise her a capella performance of "War." She broke off and fled the stage in a hail of catcalls and boos. Dylan made no statement in her defense.

But Kris Kristofferson did - "Don't let the bastards get you down."
 
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