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(NBC News) NewsFlash As God is my witness, I thought Turkey wouldn't retaliate   (worldnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 50
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36614 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2012 at 4:23 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Archived thread
2012-10-03 04:28:15 PM  
6 votes:

intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.


What happens is the country's neighbors take care of it rather than the US policing the world, and this is a bad thing?
2012-10-03 04:28:03 PM  
5 votes:

intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.


It isn't our job to meddle in disputes between other countries, thats what gets us attacked by terrorists.
2012-10-03 03:52:54 PM  
5 votes:
Okay. That's an awesome headline.
2012-10-03 04:33:59 PM  
4 votes:
Hmm, part of me wonders if this could be the Syrian rebels stirring up conflict since an attack on Turkey constitutes an attack on NATO and could serve them if they come in and help to topple a regime.

I'm a Turk so conspiratorial thinking is second nature to me.
2012-10-03 04:04:50 PM  
4 votes:
I'd say "this will end badly" but maybe it will expedite an end to Assad's murderous tyranny.
2012-10-03 05:59:26 PM  
3 votes:
The "logic" *scoff* of Fark's moon-bats always entertains.

Any nation other than USA or Israel that retaliates when enemies shell and attack civilians it is completely just.

When Israel retaliates against islamists that shell and attack civilians, the "dirty jews" should be thrown into the nearest ovens.
2012-10-03 04:41:14 PM  
3 votes:

Bruxellensis: Did I miss something that would make the headline funny?


The '70s apparently.
2012-10-03 04:29:41 PM  
3 votes:

Girion47: intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.

It isn't our job to meddle in disputes between other countries, thats what gets us attacked by terrorists.


I thought what gets us attacked by terrorists are movies on Youtube?
2012-10-03 04:33:02 PM  
2 votes:

Lollipop165: Wait... why are they bombing eachother?


Syria is more or less in a state of civil war. Turkish border towns were taking in refugees. Syria decided that some of those refugees were rebels and attacked the border towns.

Turkey just retaliated proportionally. It also complained to the UN and called up NATO.
2012-10-03 04:31:36 PM  
2 votes:

kvinesknows: what kind of damage did Turkey retaliatory attack do? that seems unclear to me


do you have a spy plane available? it will be awhile before we find out

Chances are Turkey will claim they killed the mortar crew and Syria will claim the counter attack killed an entire preschool
2012-10-03 04:31:35 PM  
2 votes:
Ladies and gentlemen, the Shi'ite has hit the fan.
2012-10-03 04:27:59 PM  
2 votes:
Wait... why are they bombing eachother?
2012-10-03 04:25:01 PM  
2 votes:
This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.
2012-10-04 02:36:32 PM  
1 votes:

way south: All wars in the middle east have our economics at stake because they involve half a dozen OPEC members at any given moment and we are still an oil driven nation.



And now you know why the world hates you.

Every country is "oil driven" but it's only Americans who demand paying so little for it

way south: I suspect we're going to get hated no matter what we do.



Nope. Only when you fight wars that only benefit you economically while trying to hide it in humanitarian rhetoric and prop up evil dictators like Assad, the Taliban and Saddam in the first place.
2012-10-03 07:38:58 PM  
1 votes:

badaboom: cameroncrazy1984: badaboom: pxlboy: Israel

Yet there is not one comment condemning Turkey. How do we know their pinpoint retaliation did not kill innocent Syrians.

Pre-condemning Turkey for something we don't even know yet strikes me as a very stupid thing to do.

So what you are saying is that if missiles are launched at a sovereign nation, any sovereign nation, that said nation has the right defend itself. Even if it means hitting what may not be pure military targets like army bases or naval ships. If so, I agree with you.


I didn't say that at all. What I said was condemning an act before you know all the facts is incredibly stupid. Stop putting words in my mouth.
2012-10-03 07:23:40 PM  
1 votes:

badaboom: pxlboy: Israel

Yet there is not one comment condemning Turkey. How do we know their pinpoint retaliation did not kill innocent Syrians.


Pre-condemning Turkey for something we don't even know yet strikes me as a very stupid thing to do.
2012-10-03 07:14:49 PM  
1 votes:

imontheinternet: Farkeld: imontheinternet: kvinesknows: what kind of damage did Turkey retaliatory attack do? that seems unclear to me

Turkey's a NATO member. If they invoke Article 5, all member nations are obligated to assist in a military strike.

That's not quite how Article 5 works. The following link is talking about Article 5 in reference to terrorist attacks, but much of what's said is applicable to the current situation.

http://www.nato.int/terrorism/five.htm

From that link:

"Allies can provide any form of assistance they deem necessary to respond to the situation. This assistance is not necessarily military and depends on the material resources of each country. Each individual member determines how it will contribute and will consult with the other members, bearing in mind that the ultimate aim is to "to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area".

The problem goes deeper than a single mortar. Syria is under Russian protection. If the violence escalates into a shooting war, the Russians may step in to protect Syria. When the US deployed carrier groups toward Iran and Syria (IIRC last summer), the Russians positioned their carrier between Syria and the American forces. The Port of Tarsus in Syria is Russia's only friendly port in the region. They're not just going to walk away from it.

If the Russians make a move against Turkey, the choice will be to disregard Article 5 and let Turkey get its ass kicked or step in and have a direct confrontation with the Russians..


Russia isn't in a very strong position to support Syria militarily. They can't access Syria directly from land or sea, they'd have to go through another nation to get to Turkey then pass through Turkey to get to Syria coming close to the US presence in Northern Iraq. They could access Turkey by sea but would have to move ships through the Bosphorus which would essentially be suicidal if they were making any move against Turkey. They could take the long way around but that would take them all the way around Europe and supporting that would be expensive. Either way direct Military support would be expensive to support and would result in high casualties. Meanwhile NATO and NATO friendly countries surround Syria and have easy access. Russia will protest because they have to, they don't want to lose their last access to the Mediterranean. However they won't go past political support except for maybe a token show of support like a destroyer/frigate around Syria.

I'd guess that as long as it stays internal to Syria NATO will stay out until it reaches Bosnia level violence. It could spiral out of control fast if Syria lobbed some shells south instead of north but keep in mind the Syrian regime wants to stay in power and not draw anyone else in. That said the humanitarian thing to do (IMHO) would be a Libya style intervention (air only, minimal to no ground forces. Setup a no-fly zone at least in the northern area (Aleppo) under the guise of 'protecting' Turkey and civilians. Wait until Syria turns on some radar stations then dismantle the Syrian forces.
2012-10-03 06:56:33 PM  
1 votes:

Girion47: intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.

It isn't our job to meddle in disputes between other countries, thats what gets us attacked by terrorists.


i.imgur.com
2012-10-03 06:45:20 PM  
1 votes:

saintwrathchild: I'm no expert on the region, but it seems like a really strange/bad time for Assad to chuck a mortar at its contentious neighbor's civilians.

/seeking enlightenment


I was thinking the same thing.
I also wonder if Syria really did this.
2012-10-03 06:30:45 PM  
1 votes:

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Katolu: intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.

World police!!!

[i70.photobucket.com image 480x676]



At least you finally figured out the extent of your posting skills
2012-10-03 06:04:22 PM  
1 votes:

Corvus: At some point turmoil must happen to reset long brewing problems in a region when it can not through other means. I would love to see violence to not be used to solve this issues but it seems to me things are such an impasse in this region that that is almost impossible. It's a lot like WW I and WW II. Which forced realignment of global powers over Europe (each a different region).

I wonder if the middle east is the same way now. That the only way to go forward is a reset that will be caused through violence. it already has somewhat with the revolutions in countries. I am not saying it's a good thing, I am just saying it might be the only way forward for these nations because I don't think you will find enough good-faith participants to fix what needs to be done without it. Too many people have lots of money because of the status quo. In some ways having the oil hurts them because they have entrenched interests to keep the status quo and not do what's right.


Yeah, pretty much.

As much as America likes to think we can hearts&minds a way out of all out war to the death over there, it may be that that's the only way to solve the problems.

Which will ALSO mean letting Israel solve it's own problems, which nobody else wants to admit, but there you go.
2012-10-03 05:55:34 PM  
1 votes:

sultros: angryjd: marius2: Chances that this was fired by a rebel group to try and piss off Turkey?

None. Syria shot down a turkish plane last month.

Case closed!! You should do CSI work. Tell us more.

According to the article, it was a recon aircraft. If it violated their airspace they were within their rights to fire upon it, considering there is a war going on. Syria has everything to lose from drawing Turkey into a war.


and then Syria recovered the (still living) pilots and executed them.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/report-acting-on-russian-inte l -syria-forces-murdered-pilots-of-downed-turkey-jet-1.467457

Is that still within their rights?
2012-10-03 05:45:56 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Here's a guy that doesn't understand what "diplomacy" means.


"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock." -- Will Rodgers

"Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell, and having them look forward to the trip." -- multiple attributions
2012-10-03 05:44:04 PM  
1 votes:

vernonFL: If Iran and Israel get involved, we'll have ourselves a Turducken.


Nah, that would be Turkey, Dubai, and Kenya.

(yeah I know Dubai is not a country, but there are no countries that start with "du")
2012-10-03 05:42:19 PM  
1 votes:

I Like Shiny Things: of Turkey are peaceful and enlightened people, anyone who thinks otherwise is racist.


Any country that, in 2012, still has a criminal blasphemy law, can in no way be considered enlightened.

/giving Ireland the stink-eye
//also Massachusetts, Michigan, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Wyoming, and Pennsylvania
2012-10-03 05:40:15 PM  
1 votes:

I Like Shiny Things: People of Turkey are peaceful and enlightened people, anyone who thinks otherwise is racist.


Compared to Arabs, yes.

/not like that's saying much...
2012-10-03 05:38:20 PM  
1 votes:
Assad and his wife are going to end-up like Nicolae and Elena Ceausescu.

Word has it Nicolae was literally trying to climb the walls like a frightened rat when the firing squad opened up on his wife in front of him.
2012-10-03 05:36:12 PM  
1 votes:

r1chard3: Are we officially the police of the world now? Can we tax everyone then?


The US is (AFIK) the only country in the world that taxes income earned outside it's borders, so it's not really that much of a stretch for the IRS to try and tax the whole frigging planet.
2012-10-03 05:35:52 PM  
1 votes:

BalugaJoe: Corvus: WW III by proxy over the middle east? Discuss.

they use TCP/IP?


no, IPX

descent2.com
2012-10-03 05:21:42 PM  
1 votes:

Bruxellensis: I do appreciate the link. I just don't see the humor.


Kids today...

/Off the lawn, POST HASTE!
2012-10-03 05:19:33 PM  
1 votes:
Reading the article, I think Turkish officials and the population in general are acting with great restraint.
I'm sure that after all the planes are loaded and fueled and the artillery is dialed in, things won't be so, congenial.

I'm sure dick Cheney is pissed he didn't think of this. I have a mental image of him sitting in his anti-civilian bunker with the soft whine of his mechanical pump and him slapping his forehead, "DOH! Where's that jackass Rumsfeld? Why didn't HE think of this?? We could be making ANOTHER fortune"



how much I hate those people . . .
2012-10-03 05:11:58 PM  
1 votes:

Diogenes: I'd say "this will end badly" but maybe it will expedite an end to Assad's murderous tyranny.


Followed by becoming the latest subsidiary of Al Qaeda, Inc., for sure.
2012-10-03 05:06:43 PM  
1 votes:
www.sectalk.com

/Can never be repeated enough!
2012-10-03 05:05:58 PM  
1 votes:

way south: Wait... WHAT?!
I thought we weren't supposed to get involved in every two bit war in the middle east because it all boiled down to trading blood for oil and becoming needlessly entangled in the local politics.

We've avoided this clustefark and now its about to become a problem for millions of people who aren't us.
Why should we change that now?



You don't need to be entangled in local politics, how entangled is NATO in Syria?

Humanitarian missions are important and much needed in unstable regions.

But America only rushes in when economics are at stake, and turns a blind eye to mass murder for as long as possible. That's one of the reasons why the world hates America.
2012-10-03 05:01:11 PM  
1 votes:

dumbobruni: intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.

if you advocate helping Al-Qaeda, which is part of the resistance forces, be my guest.



Sure it is, because that's what Faux News is telling you


Girion47: intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.

It isn't our job to meddle in disputes between other countries, thats what gets us attacked by terrorists.



No, what gets you attacked by terrorists is only invading countries for simple minded reasons and leaving everyone hanging once you're done propping up a puppet government that serves you
2012-10-03 04:59:46 PM  
1 votes:
"Our armed forces on the border responded immediately to this atrocious attack within the rules of engagement, and points in Syria determined by radar were hit with artillery fire... Turkey, within the confines of the rules of engagement and international law, will never leave these types of provocations aimed at our national security unanswered." -- TFA

Also read as: "There are rules to these sorts of things. This is what happens when we plays by the rules."
2012-10-03 04:53:17 PM  
1 votes:

leevis: Diogenes: I'd say "this will end badly" but maybe it will expedite an end to Assad's murderous tyranny.

The only thing in Syria worse than Assad will be his successor.


That's assuming Syria is still a thing after all of this is over. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Yugoslavia style fracturing in the next few years.
2012-10-03 04:42:41 PM  
1 votes:
Turkey should have stepped in earlier and more forcefully anyway. Team America is all worn out. Regional police are required.
2012-10-03 04:40:40 PM  
1 votes:
That WKRP episode should be required by law to be aired at least once in every city each Thanksgiving. Either that our your should be able to purchase it as a stand-alone episode.
2012-10-03 04:40:07 PM  
1 votes:

kvinesknows: what kind of damage did Turkey retaliatory attack do?



It always makes me want to take a nap.

/not a DIRT nap, but a nap nonetheless
2012-10-03 04:38:47 PM  
1 votes:

Lollipop165: Wait... why are they bombing eachother?


They realized that the business was getting out of control. They started playing on their luck, but i think, they will be happy if they lived through it.
2012-10-03 04:38:45 PM  
1 votes:
At some point turmoil must happen to reset long brewing problems in a region when it can not through other means. I would love to see violence to not be used to solve this issues but it seems to me things are such an impasse in this region that that is almost impossible. It's a lot like WW I and WW II. Which forced realignment of global powers over Europe (each a different region).

I wonder if the middle east is the same way now. That the only way to go forward is a reset that will be caused through violence. it already has somewhat with the revolutions in countries. I am not saying it's a good thing, I am just saying it might be the only way forward for these nations because I don't think you will find enough good-faith participants to fix what needs to be done without it. Too many people have lots of money because of the status quo. In some ways having the oil hurts them because they have entrenched interests to keep the status quo and not do what's right.
2012-10-03 04:35:31 PM  
1 votes:

kvinesknows: what kind of damage did Turkey retaliatory attack do? that seems unclear to me


Turkey's a NATO member. If they invoke Article 5, all member nations are obligated to assist in a military strike.
2012-10-03 04:34:11 PM  
1 votes:
This is going to get interesting.
2012-10-03 04:34:01 PM  
1 votes:

Diogenes: I'd say "this will end badly" but maybe it will expedite an end to Assad's murderous tyranny.


Yeah, I'd tend to think that maybe Syria's bitten off more than they can chew on this one.
2012-10-03 04:31:44 PM  
1 votes:
"This will blah blah blah and we'll blah blah blah blah through it."

jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com

/Reverse mortgage anyone?
2012-10-03 04:30:32 PM  
1 votes:
Border skirmish... I doubt Syria is dumb enough to take this further- it was Turkey's way of telling them to keep it on their side of the border.

I think...
2012-10-03 04:29:47 PM  
1 votes:

Diogenes: I'd say "this will end badly" but maybe it will expedite an end to Assad's murderous tyranny.


There's no such thing as a good ending to international shelling.
2012-10-03 04:29:36 PM  
1 votes:
I'm no expert on the region, but it seems like a really strange/bad time for Assad to chuck a mortar at its contentious neighbor's civilians.

/seeking enlightenment
2012-10-03 04:28:01 PM  
1 votes:

intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.


if you advocate helping Al-Qaeda, which is part of the resistance forces, be my guest.
 
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