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(NBC News) NewsFlash As God is my witness, I thought Turkey wouldn't retaliate   (worldnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 322
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36612 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2012 at 4:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-10-03 05:57:19 PM

KarmicDisaster: Release the Killbots.


Whatever it is, I'm willing to put wave after wave of men at your disposal
 
2012-10-03 05:59:26 PM
The "logic" *scoff* of Fark's moon-bats always entertains.

Any nation other than USA or Israel that retaliates when enemies shell and attack civilians it is completely just.

When Israel retaliates against islamists that shell and attack civilians, the "dirty jews" should be thrown into the nearest ovens.
 
2012-10-03 05:59:57 PM
Bender makes Killbots
 
2012-10-03 06:00:26 PM
Surprise! Its October!
 
2012-10-03 06:00:35 PM
The WKRP just hit the fan.
 
2012-10-03 06:01:11 PM

cc_rider: Damiit, WiseGuy, I didn't see your post.. Great Twisted minds think alike, I guess. :)

Anyhow, has anyone seen further confirmation this was definitely the work of Assad's troops? The guy is a evil monster, for sure, but I think we ought to look into this a little closer before we start having fantasies of storming into Syria with NATO troops.

Call me a suspicious Aloysius, but after the bullshiat we were sold about Iraq, Afghanistan and now Iran, I would like to make sure this isn't something entirely different being used as an excuse for NATO to get around the Russia and Chinese veto. I have no trouble with protecting Turkey, and I hope Assad goes bye-bye, but I am not wishing to make a mockery of treaties and international law to do so.


I doubt this is some kind of Machiavellian plot. Turkey has a great deal invested in the status quo and would rather not see a change. They're paranoid over there that the US will intervene so that we can set up a Kurdish homeland. Which is weird because it requires someone overseas to think America gives fark all about some minority group without its own country.
 
2012-10-03 06:01:43 PM

OnlyM3: The "logic" *scoff* of Fark's moon-bats always entertains.

Any nation other than USA or Israel that retaliates when enemies shell and attack civilians it is completely just.

When Israel retaliates against islamists that shell and attack civilians, the "dirty jews" should be thrown into the nearest ovens.


Another reminder of why you're Farkied as 'moron'.
 
2012-10-03 06:01:59 PM

OnlyM3: The "logic" *scoff* of Fark's moon-bats always entertains.

Any nation other than USA or Israel that retaliates when enemies shell and attack civilians it is completely just.

When Israel retaliates against islamists that shell and attack civilians, the "dirty jews" should be thrown into the nearest ovens.


That's not a bad troll, actually. The ovens comment tips it off, though.
 
2012-10-03 06:02:08 PM

sultros: angryjd: marius2: Chances that this was fired by a rebel group to try and piss off Turkey?

None. Syria shot down a turkish plane last month.

Case closed!! You should do CSI work. Tell us more.

According to the article, it was a recon aircraft. If it violated their airspace they were within their rights to fire upon it, considering there is a war going on. Syria has everything to lose from drawing Turkey into a war.


Not necessarily. If it was flying the turkey syria border (to make sure, you know, the syrians weren't pulling shiat?), and strayed briefly into Syria (think left-right swaying of a course or acidentally cutting over a jut in the border, not straight line into Syria), then.. that's actually not exactly in their rights. And it's by no means reasonable.

Now, it's possible Syria flipped out, thought someone was defecting again, and jumped the gun to shoot the pilot down. But that doesn't make it turkey's fault.
 
2012-10-03 06:04:22 PM

Corvus: At some point turmoil must happen to reset long brewing problems in a region when it can not through other means. I would love to see violence to not be used to solve this issues but it seems to me things are such an impasse in this region that that is almost impossible. It's a lot like WW I and WW II. Which forced realignment of global powers over Europe (each a different region).

I wonder if the middle east is the same way now. That the only way to go forward is a reset that will be caused through violence. it already has somewhat with the revolutions in countries. I am not saying it's a good thing, I am just saying it might be the only way forward for these nations because I don't think you will find enough good-faith participants to fix what needs to be done without it. Too many people have lots of money because of the status quo. In some ways having the oil hurts them because they have entrenched interests to keep the status quo and not do what's right.


Yeah, pretty much.

As much as America likes to think we can hearts&minds a way out of all out war to the death over there, it may be that that's the only way to solve the problems.

Which will ALSO mean letting Israel solve it's own problems, which nobody else wants to admit, but there you go.
 
2012-10-03 06:05:27 PM

intelligent comment below: PC LOAD LETTER: intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.

Your comment isn't intelligent.

Do you want to get into a shooting war with China and Russia?


You think they would be stupid enough to go to war with America over Syria? And you question my intelligence? How rich.


Since their opposition to UN involvement in Syria stems from the desire to protect leaders of nations so that they themselves aren't the target of military action by the UN, you tell me.
 
2012-10-03 06:06:29 PM

rev. dave: Surprise! Its October!


I'm having a hard time how Americans are going to see something like this as anything but "none of our farking business". I'm not sure whose side you think this 'surprise' is helping, but I'd be curious to know. I think Obama will play this low key in a "we stand steadfast behind our ally" which will be fine. There's no real benefit to him playing it any other way. If the Romney camp tries to play the 'this is bad news for Obama' angle, I think that is a loser in a big way. There's no
 
2012-10-03 06:07:25 PM

Corvus: zedster: Corvus: WW III by proxy over the middle east? Discuss.

yes, the next war will be fought by remote control robots

That's not what "by proxy" means.


Really?
 
2012-10-03 06:07:57 PM
It's just as well Turkey retaliated, because that brought back to life all those who were killed in the initial attack and because retaliating is permitted in international law it would have been silly to waste that opportunity.

What a load of crap. It sounds like some douchebags in Syria did some crap with a mortar and Turkey just killed the nearest people it could and said "right, that's that then!", and walked away dusting off their hands.

As anyone who's followed attacks on Israel knows, these people set up shop in residential areas, fire their crap and leave, wait for the response, then come back with television cameras and go "oooh, unprovoked response on unarmed civilians".

People in that part of the world don't know the difference between revenge and justice, and that's why it will always be a shiat-hole.
 
2012-10-03 06:10:50 PM

Urinal Cake Mix: My sister-in-law is in Turkey this week. Ruh roh.


CSB
/is she cute?
 
2012-10-03 06:12:41 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: Since their opposition to UN involvement in Syria stems from the desire to protect leaders of nations so that they themselves aren't the target of military action by the UN, you tell me.



I already told you, it's a ridiculous claim to make. America stirs up Chinese anger more with arms sales to Taiwan than it would by stopping massacres in Syria. Russia has a fresh water port they want to keep and with a new government they can still have it.
 
2012-10-03 06:13:16 PM
/warm water port not fresh. d'Oh
 
2012-10-03 06:14:27 PM

Lollipop165: Wait... why are they bombing eachother?


Obama.

Oh? Bomba ME??? Ooooh bomba yoooou!!!
 
2012-10-03 06:14:31 PM

Farkeld: Hmm, I think your scenario is a bit far fetched. I doubt the Russians would risk a military conflict with NATO over Syria.


Just leaving this here:

History of the Russo-Turkish wars

1 Russo-Turkish War (1568-1570)
2 Russo-Turkish War (1571-1574)
3 Russo-Turkish War (1676-1681)
4 Russo-Turkish War (1686-1700)
5 Russo-Turkish War (1710-1711)
6 Russo-Austrian-Turkish War (1735-1739)
7 Russo-Turkish War (1768-1774)
8 Russo-Turkish War (1787-1792)
9 Russo-Turkish War (1806-1812)
10 Russo-Turkish War (1828-1829)
11 Crimean War (1853-1856)
12 Russo-Turkish War (1877-1878)
13 World War I: Caucasus Campaign (1914-1918)
 
2012-10-03 06:16:56 PM
I had a dream last night that I was out hiking and saw a coyote (possibly a wolf) kill a wild turkey right in front of me.

This is only very tangentially related to this thread, but I thought it was neat.
 
2012-10-03 06:17:41 PM

WordsnCollision: History of the Russo-Turkish wars



All that is ancient history. Russia begged for years to be part of the WTO and now they are accepted. All big economies are intertwined. There is little danger of going to war with each other over such matters as they did in the past.
 
2012-10-03 06:19:56 PM

Cythraul: tinyarena: Hey! Assad!
[media3.washingtonpost.com image 370x222][img407.imageshack.us image 300x222]
What part of NATO didn't you understand?

Yeah, but Turkey is kinda the red-headed-stepchild of NATO. Do we really have to rush in and defend them?


Looking at a map of the Turkey such as, I think we should keep them as our friends and such, for the strategery.
 
2012-10-03 06:20:00 PM

eepapapee: Lollipop165: Wait... why are they bombing eachother?

Obama.

Oh? Bomba ME??? Ooooh bomba yoooou!!!


Wait. Someone's bombing Omaha? shiat. That's gonna bring down the wrath.
 
2012-10-03 06:21:13 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: I had a dream last night that I was out hiking and saw a coyote (possibly a wolf) kill a wild turkey right in front of me.

This is only very tangentially related to this thread, but I thought it was neat.


You need to stop drinking right before you go to bed. That's what slaying a Wild Turkey had to do with it.
 
2012-10-03 06:23:38 PM

intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.


Don't panic just yet, but based on the contrast between your Fark handle and your post, it appears that a moron has hijacked your account.

You should probably send a First Class letter to Drew asking about it.

Best,

jaochg
 
2012-10-03 06:24:13 PM

imontheinternet: Farkeld: imontheinternet: kvinesknows: what kind of damage did Turkey retaliatory attack do? that seems unclear to me

Turkey's a NATO member. If they invoke Article 5, all member nations are obligated to assist in a military strike.

That's not quite how Article 5 works. The following link is talking about Article 5 in reference to terrorist attacks, but much of what's said is applicable to the current situation.

http://www.nato.int/terrorism/five.htm

From that link:

"Allies can provide any form of assistance they deem necessary to respond to the situation. This assistance is not necessarily military and depends on the material resources of each country. Each individual member determines how it will contribute and will consult with the other members, bearing in mind that the ultimate aim is to "to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area".

The problem goes deeper than a single mortar. Syria is under Russian protection. If the violence escalates into a shooting war, the Russians may step in to protect Syria. When the US deployed carrier groups toward Iran and Syria (IIRC last summer), the Russians positioned their carrier between Syria and the American forces. The Port of Tarsus in Syria is Russia's only friendly port in the region. They're not just going to walk away from it.

If the Russians make a move against Turkey, the choice will be to disregard Article 5 and let Turkey get its ass kicked or step in and have a direct confrontation with the Russians..


Probably not. The ruskies have a long history of puffing their chest but ultimately backing down, because at the end of the day America has always been able to kick the ever living shiat out of them. They didn't back down during the cuban missile crissis etc because it was a stalemate, they backed down because we've always had a vast upper hand in our offensive capability.

TL;DR: The russians are mostly just talk.
 
2012-10-03 06:25:25 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Don't panic just yet, but based on the contrast between your Fark handle and your post, it appears that a moron has hijacked your account.

You should probably send a First Class letter to Drew asking about it.

Best,

jaochg



You're so original, another idiot refusing to address anything I've said and just make a stupid comment about my user name.

I'm surprised you showed up after the last time you tried debating and completely embarrassed yourself. But you think using alts for a week or more makes everyone forget the history with this name
 
2012-10-03 06:27:57 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: I had a dream last night that I was out hiking and saw a coyote (possibly a wolf) kill a wild turkey right in front of me.

This is only very tangentially related to this thread, but I thought it was neat.


Artist's conception of the crime scene:

images.picturesdepot.com
 
2012-10-03 06:29:31 PM

Dragonflew: vernonFL: If Iran and Israel get involved, we'll have ourselves a Turducken.

Nah, that would be Turkey, Dubai, and Kenya.

(yeah I know Dubai is not a country, but there are no countries that start with "du")


Durkadurkastan
 
2012-10-03 06:30:04 PM

Katolu: intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.

World police!!!


i70.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-03 06:30:36 PM

Slaxl: It's just as well Turkey retaliated, because that brought back to life all those who were killed in the initial attack and because retaliating is permitted in international law it would have been silly to waste that opportunity.

What a load of crap. It sounds like some douchebags in Syria did some crap with a mortar and Turkey just killed the nearest people it could and said "right, that's that then!", and walked away dusting off their hands.

As anyone who's followed attacks on Israel knows, these people set up shop in residential areas, fire their crap and leave, wait for the response, then come back with television cameras and go "oooh, unprovoked response on unarmed civilians".

People in that part of the world don't know the difference between revenge and justice, and that's why it will always be a shiat-hole.


So what's your solution to justice? Track down those responsible and kill them with a surgical strike? Have them "stand trial"? Do you just let them kill your citizens because you can't really stop it or find those responsible? Do you risk even MORE lives by securing justice?
 
2012-10-03 06:30:45 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Katolu: intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.

World police!!!

[i70.photobucket.com image 480x676]



At least you finally figured out the extent of your posting skills
 
2012-10-03 06:31:31 PM
Just tell them it was in response to a mortar strike that looked like a Syrian mortar strike.
 
2012-10-03 06:34:13 PM

zedster: just some perspective, the colored area is the max range of Syrian missiles(~500 miles). They most likely have less than 100 missiles with the range to hit Istanbul and would have to move them the coast/border to get there.

[i47.tinypic.com image 850x436] 

Question if Assad thinks his goose is cooked will he fire them at either Turkey or Israel to try to flare up the region


Why not both?
 
2012-10-03 06:35:04 PM

trappedspirit: Just tell them it was in response to a mortar strike that looked like a Syrian mortar strike.


And who's to say that the mortar wasn't launched by someone from the rebellion?
This is why countries have diplomats - so you don't have a war based upon these less-than-war-starting occurences.
 
2012-10-03 06:35:41 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: zedster: just some perspective, the colored area is the max range of Syrian missiles(~500 miles). They most likely have less than 100 missiles with the range to hit Istanbul and would have to move them the coast/border to get there.

[i47.tinypic.com image 850x436] 

Question if Assad thinks his goose is cooked will he fire them at either Turkey or Israel to try to flare up the region

Why not both?


well yes, chance are if he does one he'll do both, or have Hezbollah flair up on Israel.
 
2012-10-03 06:37:21 PM

the money is in the banana stand: Do you risk even MORE lives by securing justice?



So why send in the SWAT team to serve a warrant in a dangerous area? Just use a drone and bomb the house
 
2012-10-03 06:41:56 PM
We need an infestation of swans.
 
2012-10-03 06:45:20 PM

saintwrathchild: I'm no expert on the region, but it seems like a really strange/bad time for Assad to chuck a mortar at its contentious neighbor's civilians.

/seeking enlightenment


I was thinking the same thing.
I also wonder if Syria really did this.
 
2012-10-03 06:55:13 PM

pxlboy: Israel


Yet there is not one comment condemning Turkey. How do we know their pinpoint retaliation did not kill innocent Syrians.
 
2012-10-03 06:55:21 PM
How come the old turks were al Shriners?
 
2012-10-03 06:55:25 PM

Fark Rye For Many Whores: tinyarena: [img407.imageshack.us image 300x222]

Forget the jet fighters, Syria be afraid: They've had cyborgs for centuries.

[www.technovelgy.com image 350x283]


Don't you mean robots?.
 
2012-10-03 06:56:33 PM

Girion47: intelligent comment below: This is what happens when America does nothing to solve real humanitarian crises and drags its feel complaining about Russia and China blocking in the UN. Sure didn't stop them in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Libya, or or or.

It isn't our job to meddle in disputes between other countries, thats what gets us attacked by terrorists.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-03 06:56:50 PM

the money is in the banana stand: Slaxl: It's just as well Turkey retaliated, because that brought back to life all those who were killed in the initial attack and because retaliating is permitted in international law it would have been silly to waste that opportunity.

What a load of crap. It sounds like some douchebags in Syria did some crap with a mortar and Turkey just killed the nearest people it could and said "right, that's that then!", and walked away dusting off their hands.

As anyone who's followed attacks on Israel knows, these people set up shop in residential areas, fire their crap and leave, wait for the response, then come back with television cameras and go "oooh, unprovoked response on unarmed civilians".

People in that part of the world don't know the difference between revenge and justice, and that's why it will always be a shiat-hole.

So what's your solution to justice? Track down those responsible and kill them with a surgical strike? Have them "stand trial"? Do you just let them kill your citizens because you can't really stop it or find those responsible? Do you risk even MORE lives by securing justice?


There is no 'solution to justice', justice is the target, the destination, not something to be fixed. It's better to let a thousand guilty men go free than kill one innocent person in a retaliatory strike.
 
2012-10-03 06:57:53 PM

WordsnCollision: Farkeld: Hmm, I think your scenario is a bit far fetched. I doubt the Russians would risk a military conflict with NATO over Syria.

Just leaving this here:

History of the Russo-Turkish wars

1 Russo-Turkish War (1568-1570)
2 Russo-Turkish War (1571-1574)
3 Russo-Turkish War (1676-1681)
4 Russo-Turkish War (1686-1700)
5 Russo-Turkish War (1710-1711)
6 Russo-Austrian-Turkish War (1735-1739)
7 Russo-Turkish War (1768-1774)
8 Russo-Turkish War (1787-1792)
9 Russo-Turkish War (1806-1812)
10 Russo-Turkish War (1828-1829)
11 Crimean War (1853-1856)
12 Russo-Turkish War (1877-1878)
13 World War I: Caucasus Campaign (1914-1918)


*checks calendar*

Yup, still the 21st century.
Do try and keep up.
 
2012-10-03 06:58:04 PM
So, Syrian rebels fire mortars into Turkey to pull Turkey into a shooting war with Syria? Well played.
 
2012-10-03 06:59:03 PM

intelligent comment below: EmmaLou: Considering the things that Nixon did to LBJ and Reagan did to Carter, I wouldn't be surprised if Romney (or Rove) has something to do with the movie that was released, the Libyan terrorist attack, and possibly this (since those first 2 didn't really stick.)

I find it really odd that these things just keep happening when Romneys numbers are down. The Libyan attack was happening right as Obama had his bump from the DNC. This is coming on the day of a debate. If something happens on October 22 (which is the foreign policy debate), then I'll have lost ALL faith in humanity.


Well rich and powerful Saudis still fund Al Qaeda organizations all over the world so it wouldn't be shocking if some high up GOP people asked them to ask AQ to do something significant


www.damninteresting.com
 
2012-10-03 07:13:19 PM

JohnTuttle: "Our armed forces on the border responded immediately to this atrocious attack within the rules of engagement, and points in Syria determined by radar were hit with artillery fire... Turkey, within the confines of the rules of engagement and international law, will never leave these types of provocations aimed at our national security unanswered." -- TFA

Also read as: "There are rules to these sorts of things. This is what happens when we plays by the rules."


I'm more surprised that they can use radar to pinpoint where a mortar round came from.
 
2012-10-03 07:14:49 PM

imontheinternet: Farkeld: imontheinternet: kvinesknows: what kind of damage did Turkey retaliatory attack do? that seems unclear to me

Turkey's a NATO member. If they invoke Article 5, all member nations are obligated to assist in a military strike.

That's not quite how Article 5 works. The following link is talking about Article 5 in reference to terrorist attacks, but much of what's said is applicable to the current situation.

http://www.nato.int/terrorism/five.htm

From that link:

"Allies can provide any form of assistance they deem necessary to respond to the situation. This assistance is not necessarily military and depends on the material resources of each country. Each individual member determines how it will contribute and will consult with the other members, bearing in mind that the ultimate aim is to "to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area".

The problem goes deeper than a single mortar. Syria is under Russian protection. If the violence escalates into a shooting war, the Russians may step in to protect Syria. When the US deployed carrier groups toward Iran and Syria (IIRC last summer), the Russians positioned their carrier between Syria and the American forces. The Port of Tarsus in Syria is Russia's only friendly port in the region. They're not just going to walk away from it.

If the Russians make a move against Turkey, the choice will be to disregard Article 5 and let Turkey get its ass kicked or step in and have a direct confrontation with the Russians..


Russia isn't in a very strong position to support Syria militarily. They can't access Syria directly from land or sea, they'd have to go through another nation to get to Turkey then pass through Turkey to get to Syria coming close to the US presence in Northern Iraq. They could access Turkey by sea but would have to move ships through the Bosphorus which would essentially be suicidal if they were making any move against Turkey. They could take the long way around but that would take them all the way around Europe and supporting that would be expensive. Either way direct Military support would be expensive to support and would result in high casualties. Meanwhile NATO and NATO friendly countries surround Syria and have easy access. Russia will protest because they have to, they don't want to lose their last access to the Mediterranean. However they won't go past political support except for maybe a token show of support like a destroyer/frigate around Syria.

I'd guess that as long as it stays internal to Syria NATO will stay out until it reaches Bosnia level violence. It could spiral out of control fast if Syria lobbed some shells south instead of north but keep in mind the Syrian regime wants to stay in power and not draw anyone else in. That said the humanitarian thing to do (IMHO) would be a Libya style intervention (air only, minimal to no ground forces. Setup a no-fly zone at least in the northern area (Aleppo) under the guise of 'protecting' Turkey and civilians. Wait until Syria turns on some radar stations then dismantle the Syrian forces.
 
2012-10-03 07:15:53 PM

Lollipop165: Wait... why are they bombing eachother?


Because Middle East. Nothing to see here, citizen.
 
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