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(Fox News)   Obamacare is bad because: (a) higher premiums, (b) the individual mandate, or (c) more people will get to see doctors, which makes doctors sad   (foxnews.com) divider line 117
    More: Stupid, obamacare, individual mandate, premiums, Langone Medical Center, Association of American Medical Colleges, man hours  
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1801 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Oct 2012 at 4:06 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



117 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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Archived thread
 
2012-10-03 03:49:19 PM  
If there is a better example of subby twisting words I would love to see it, but I think this one takes the cake
 
2012-10-03 03:49:36 PM  
(The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.
 
2012-10-03 03:52:36 PM  

DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.


I dont know about you, but when I get random surveys in the mail, I tend to just ignore them.
 
2012-10-03 03:53:41 PM  

cman: DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.

I dont know about you, but when I get random surveys in the mail, I tend to just ignore them.


This was on online poll.
 
2012-10-03 03:55:06 PM  

DamnYankees: cman: DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.

I dont know about you, but when I get random surveys in the mail, I tend to just ignore them.

This was on online poll.


Doesnt matter. If I see random surveys pop up, I ignore them. How many times I have declined the Fark scorecard survey? I have no idea. That one pops up at least once a month.
 
2012-10-03 04:01:48 PM  

DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.


I would generally think the most pissed-off doctors are likely to respond. It ends up being more of a petition than an actual survey.
 
2012-10-03 04:03:09 PM  
But he said doctors are underpaid! Won't anyone think of the millions of destitute doctors, living under bridges and scrounging for their next meal?

And I thought this was America.
 
2012-10-03 04:09:17 PM  

croesius: But he said doctors are underpaid!


A doctor thinks doctors are underpaid? Shocking.
 
2012-10-03 04:09:39 PM  

DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.


Not farked up, just statistically worthless in every way.
 
2012-10-03 04:10:05 PM  
Any self selecting survey like this is going to be skewed to butt-hurt individuals.
 
2012-10-03 04:10:25 PM  

croesius: But he said doctors are underpaid! Won't anyone think of the millions of destitute doctors, living under bridges and scrounging for their next meal?

And I thought this was America.


Everybody in the United States believes they are underpaid.
 
2012-10-03 04:11:10 PM  
Survey after survey from Deloitte, Sermo.com, the Doctor-Patient Medical Association, and Investors Business Daily have all previously shown that doctors are not happy with the direction of medicine and that it is impacting how we practice.

Link

People paid to not support Obamacare do not support Obamacare. Ground breaking stuff.
 
2012-10-03 04:11:22 PM  
Who did they ask, Dr. Frank Burns of Fort Wayne, Indiana?
 
2012-10-03 04:11:25 PM  
or

D) A massive peice of legislation that was forced down our throats and made into law that people are just now trying to understand the full ramifications of (and oh yea, we also lied about the cost).

Go Fartbama!
 
2012-10-03 04:11:38 PM  

cman: DamnYankees: cman: DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.

I dont know about you, but when I get random surveys in the mail, I tend to just ignore them.

This was on online poll.

Doesnt matter. If I see random surveys pop up, I ignore them. How many times I have declined the Fark scorecard survey? I have no idea. That one pops up at least once a month.


I don't think the brightest doctors responded to the survey. For example, one physician said, "A mechanic makes $80-$100 an hour. A physician makes less money but has lots of student loan debts, has to pay so many licenses, etc." (pg 53)
 
2012-10-03 04:12:08 PM  
My kind are no longer lauded as demigod and showered with gold by the peasants! Woe is me.
 
2012-10-03 04:12:17 PM  

croesius: But he said doctors are underpaid!


graphics8.nytimes.com

Those poor underpaid GPs!
 
2012-10-03 04:12:17 PM  
So treating more people, regardless of how its paid for is a BAD thing because doctors don't want more work? So instead, those 30 million extra people should just FARK off? Wow, this guy is the worst doctor ever.
 
2012-10-03 04:13:03 PM  

DamnYankees: cman: DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.

I dont know about you, but when I get random surveys in the mail, I tend to just ignore them.

This was on online poll.


I think anyone who seriously responds to online surveys should be punched in the beanbag.
 
2012-10-03 04:13:06 PM  
I don't know the specifics of the survey, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say there might have been some self-selection going on.
 
2012-10-03 04:13:13 PM  
CSB time: my family doctor is a hardcore republican (because Israel, in case you were wondering), but he even thinks that Obamacare was a great idea and is planning to expand his practice to handle the expected increase in patients.
 
2012-10-03 04:13:57 PM  
Some doctors actually have the nerve to advocate for universal health care. Sadly those doctors get assassinated.

www.biography.com
 
2012-10-03 04:15:28 PM  

FarkedOver: Some doctors actually have the nerve to advocate for universal health care. Sadly those doctors get assassinated.

[www.biography.com image 402x402]


As even Liberals have admitted in this thread, just because you are a doctor does not make you smart
 
2012-10-03 04:15:43 PM  

2 grams: A massive peice of legislation that was forced down our throats


what is it with you "guys" and teh cawk?
 
2012-10-03 04:15:47 PM  

DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.


It's just you. 14,000 responses provides a very slim margin of error.

Selection bias may be at play here, but all other things being equal, it wouldn't matter if it was 14,000 out of a brazillion doctors. Population sizes don't really factor much into error margins.
 
2012-10-03 04:16:12 PM  
fta: Doctors are exhausted, and we simple can't handle all the paperwork or the growing list of medical problems presented to us by the chronically ill

Doctors are too tired to care for the sick. Gee, that is sad.

Isn't the Physicians' Foundation one of those right wing groups that tries to front as neutral? Does anyone know whether they are funded by the Koch brothers?
 
2012-10-03 04:16:23 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Who did they ask, Dr. Frank Burns of Fort Wayne, Indiana?


I have it on good authority that he consumes annelids.
 
2012-10-03 04:17:30 PM  
I know I will probably get some flak about this. But for the schooling and the work that most Doctors do (not counting the plastic surgeons or Lazeks guys) , Doctors ARE underpaid. But I am not sure why they think Obamacare is going to make it worse. Most nurses are underpaid too. But once again having more patients that are actually paying into the system and forcing the insurance companies to spend money on actual medical care should make you paid more not less.

I think actually under Obamacare you might see a big push for more general doctors because they will be needed more and when demand goes up, pay should go up too.
 
2012-10-03 04:17:48 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Survey after survey from Deloitte, Sermo.com, the Doctor-Patient Medical Association, and Investors Business Daily have all previously shown that doctors are not happy with the direction of medicine and that it is impacting how we practice.

Link

People paid to not support Obamacare do not support Obamacare. Ground breaking stuff.


Ah, thank-you. ALEC the only organization that consistently manages to be more evil than the Koch brothers.
 
2012-10-03 04:18:06 PM  
Turns out there are still doctors in Massachusetts. True story. In Canada, too. Heck, there are at least 25 countries with universal health care that have both more GPs and more doctors overall per capita than the USA. Weird..
 
2012-10-03 04:18:17 PM  

Lunaville: Isn't the Physicians' Foundation one of those right wing groups that tries to front as neutral? Does anyone know whether they are funded by the Koch brothers?


Did you know that Lizard people were responsible for the 9/11 attacks? They were convinced to carry out these attacks from a conspiracy of NPR, the GOP, global bankers, oil pricks, and Santa Claus
 
2012-10-03 04:18:40 PM  

dumbobruni: CSB time: my family doctor is a hardcore republican (because Israel, in case you were wondering), but he even thinks that Obamacare was a great idea and is planning to expand his practice to handle the expected increase in patients.


bu-bu-bu-but surely he's thought about the uncertainty of Obamacare!!
 
2012-10-03 04:18:40 PM  

cman: Everybody in the United States believes they are underpaid.


Unless you're a CEO, it's true.
 
2012-10-03 04:19:01 PM  

cmunic8r99: I don't think the brightest doctors responded to the survey. For example, one physician said, "A mechanic makes $80-$100 an hour. A physician makes less money but has lots of student loan debts, has to pay so many licenses, etc." (pg 53)


LOLCOPTER

He actually thinks every penny of "labor" at the garage goes to a single mechanic who does all the work and that the utilities and insurance and lease etc. just pay for themselves.
 
2012-10-03 04:19:28 PM  
We are overburdened, underpaid, ill equipped to

I guess that's why you always see doctors saving the cans from the cafeteria to turn in for the recycling money while all those good for nothing overpaid teachers roll by in their Mercedes on their way home to their gated communities.

Oh wait...
 
2012-10-03 04:19:30 PM  
Which is why Mitt Romney's suggestion of letting the poor go to emergency rooms and having everyone else pay for it is better....plus poor people get such great service there too.

Mitt Romney's Healthcare Solution
 
2012-10-03 04:20:31 PM  
I may be not one of the 60 percent of doctors (according to the survey) who would retire now if I had the means, but the federal government can't rely on all of America's doctors having the resources, passion, or wherewithal to soldier on with the heavy burden of ObamaCare.

As opposed to all of those truck drivers, cops, and construction workers who would still be on the job if they won the lottery.
 
2012-10-03 04:20:38 PM  

Citrate1007: Which is why Mitt Romney's suggestion of letting the poor go to emergency rooms and having everyone else pay for it is better....plus poor people get such great service there too.

Mitt Romney's Healthcare Solution


I hope Obama brings up that that is Romney's healthcare solution for tonight.
 
2012-10-03 04:20:40 PM  

StrangeQ: We are overburdened, underpaid, ill equipped to

I guess that's why you always see doctors saving the cans from the cafeteria to turn in for the recycling money while all those good for nothing overpaid teachers roll by in their Mercedes on their way home to their gated communities.


I once saw a teacher buying steak and lobster at the grocery store!
 
2012-10-03 04:22:08 PM  
What a self-important douchebag. Oh no, I might have to keep my office open more than just from 10am-4pm. I wonder what ER doctors think about getting people with the sniffles out of the waiting room. These 30 million extra people aren't even really extra. What, you think when something bad happens they're just going to stay home and die? Oh no, there's all these new tests I have to do, woe is me. Geez, what a whiner. What you're experiencing is the commiditization of your profession. Maybe you should go into IT instead.
 
2012-10-03 04:23:30 PM  

cman: FarkedOver: Some doctors actually have the nerve to advocate for universal health care. Sadly those doctors get assassinated.

[www.biography.com image 402x402]

As even Liberals have admitted in this thread, just because you are a doctor does not make you smart


This...is true. I lectured for one of the premed intro to physics courses. Some of the questions brought up damn near floored me. I had a quiz question that boiled down to if a = b, and b = c, a's relation to c is...? Half of the class walked up with glassy eyed stares and didn't have the faintest idea where to even begin.
 
2012-10-03 04:23:54 PM  
nintendookie.files.wordpress.com
/hot
 
2012-10-03 04:25:23 PM  
you know who is really going to bear the burden of Obambicare?!!

the golf courses!
 
2012-10-03 04:25:27 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Who did they ask, Dr. Frank Burns of Fort Wayne, Indiana?


No, they asked Dr "Get A Brain" Moran of Fort Wayne.

// One of his first 'prescriptions' was to feed me a dog turd squished between two graham crackers. Told me it was chocolate frosting...
 
2012-10-03 04:26:08 PM  
Doctors are exhausted, and we simple can't handle all the paperwork or the growing list of medical problems presented to us by the chronically ill.

Why do the chronically ill hate America? WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE DOCTORS?

O_o
 
2012-10-03 04:26:14 PM  

Rent Party: StrangeQ: We are overburdened, underpaid, ill equipped to

I guess that's why you always see doctors saving the cans from the cafeteria to turn in for the recycling money while all those good for nothing overpaid teachers roll by in their Mercedes on their way home to their gated communities.


I once saw a teacher buying steak and lobster at the grocery store!


And it was so rare an occasion that you never forgot it.
 
2012-10-03 04:26:56 PM  

StrangeQ: cman: FarkedOver: Some doctors actually have the nerve to advocate for universal health care. Sadly those doctors get assassinated.

[www.biography.com image 402x402]

As even Liberals have admitted in this thread, just because you are a doctor does not make you smart

This...is true. I lectured for one of the premed intro to physics courses. Some of the questions brought up damn near floored me. I had a quiz question that boiled down to if a = b, and b = c, a's relation to c is...? Half of the class walked up with glassy eyed stares and didn't have the faintest idea where to even begin.


I grew up on a farm located at the base of a hill. The guy on the next farm over was an MD. I remember my dad and I sitting on our pasture fence watching the doctor try to dislodge a large boulder from his lot. On a really steep hill. With him on the downside.

"Shouldn't we help him, Dad?"

"Nah... He'll learn. He's a doctor."

Fortunately, the doc was quick enough to not get killed.
 
2012-10-03 04:27:08 PM  

StrangeQ: We are overburdened, underpaid, ill equipped to

I guess that's why you always see doctors saving the cans from the physicians-only, catered dining room to turn in for the recycling money while all those good for nothing overpaid teachers roll by in their Mercedes on their way home to their gated communities.

Oh wait...


FTFY
 
2012-10-03 04:27:28 PM  
You think you're over worked? Hire a goddamn nurse practitioner. She can handle over half your workload without breaking a sweat.

Can't find a nurse practitioner? Try paying them a competitive wage. Amazing how that works.

Think you're underpaid? Try working for the amount that you refuse to pay the nurse practitioner. See how you like it.
 
2012-10-03 04:28:01 PM  

cman: If there is a better example of subby twisting words I would love to see it, but I think this one takes the cake


FTA: "We are overburdened, underpaid, ill equipped to handle what we already have on our plates let alone the expected expansion under ObamaCare."

FTA: "...me and my fellow physicians are discouraged and concerned about how we will care for you and your family in this brave new world of health insurance expansion."

Looks to me like subby was spot on.

/Not subby
 
2012-10-03 04:30:29 PM  
Various programs aired by my NPR affiliate have addressed this topic.
As far as I can tell, it boils down to the fact that there aren't enough doctors currently (or in the pipeline) to provide high-quality care with such a sudden influx in patients.
There were a lot of proponents for the small, quick check-up places you find in grocery stores. They just need to communicate with the PCP (assuming the patient has one... and if they're poor and newly insured, probably not, and may still seek ER care for issues Kroger/Safeway can't handle).
 
2012-10-03 04:30:34 PM  

Rent Party: DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.

It's just you. 14,000 responses provides a very slim margin of error.

Selection bias may be at play here, but all other things being equal, it wouldn't matter if it was 14,000 out of a brazillion doctors. Population sizes don't really factor much into error margins.


Nope. If you randomly asked 14000 (or even 1400) out of however many doctors (or whatevers) and the vast majority responded, that would have a slim margin of error. If you ask 600,000 and 14,000 respond then unless you have good historical evidence to prove that the very low level of response wouldn't affect the results, or would have well known biases that you can account for statistically, then the result of your survey tells you nothing that can help you predict the other 586,000 non-respondents, it only should be treated as representing the views of the respondents.
 
2012-10-03 04:30:55 PM  

fenianfark: croesius: But he said doctors are underpaid!

[graphics8.nytimes.com image 427x365]

Those poor underpaid GPs!


Doctors get paid around 20% to 30% less om Canada than the US but we we throw in free health care (we do that for every job and non-job actually)
 
2012-10-03 04:31:08 PM  

DamnYankees: cman: DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.

I dont know about you, but when I get random surveys in the mail, I tend to just ignore them.

This was on online poll.


I thought it was faxed to doctors. Either way, yes, its self selecting. Those who like ObamaCare in general didn't bother responding.
 
2012-10-03 04:35:02 PM  
FTA: "We are overburdened, underpaid, ill equipped to handle what we already have on our plates let alone the expected expansion under ObamaCare."

FTA: "...me and my fellow physicians are discouraged and concerned about how we will care for you and your family in this brave new world of health insurance expansion."


The docs I know are wealthy and control their patient inflow nicely, or are underpaid, know it, but love servicing the community that it's only a minor complaint; they know they could solve such problems, but it would be a disservice to the community, especially if they are dealing with the poor. Sounds like the assholes that commented need to be lawyers instead.
 
2012-10-03 04:35:35 PM  

xria: Rent Party: DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.

It's just you. 14,000 responses provides a very slim margin of error.

Selection bias may be at play here, but all other things being equal, it wouldn't matter if it was 14,000 out of a brazillion doctors. Population sizes don't really factor much into error margins.

Nope. If you randomly asked 14000 (or even 1400) out of however many doctors (or whatevers) and the vast majority responded, that would have a slim margin of error.


You do know that it doesn't matter how big the population is, so long as it's randomly sampled, right? 14,000 responses gives you a margin of error of less than 1% whether the population is 60,000 6,000,000 or 6,000,000,000.

So I think what you meant to say was "Yep."


If you ask 600,000 and 14,000 respond then unless you have good historical evidence to prove that the very low level of response wouldn't affect the results, or would have well known biases that you can account for statistically, then the result of your survey tells you nothing that can help you predict the other 586,000 non-respondents, it only should be treated as representing the views of the respondents.


You know how I know you don't know shiat about statistics? It's because you say stupid shiat like this.

The problem with this survey isn't the sample size. It is way more than adequate. It's the fact that the responders are self selected, and therefore already biased. They respond because they have an axe to grind.
 
2012-10-03 04:36:34 PM  
At least he starts to know a little what it feels like to be a teacher.
 
2012-10-03 04:37:02 PM  

Corvus: patients that are actually paying into the system and forcing the insurance companies to spend money on actual medical care should make you paid more not less.

I think actually under Obamacare you might see a big push for more general doctors because they will be needed more and when demand goes up, pay should go up too.


True, but arguably so are physicists, and most other jobs that require a Ph.D.

StrangeQ: cman: FarkedOver: Some doctors actually have the nerve to advocate for universal health care. Sadly those doctors get assassinated.

[www.biography.com image 402x402]

As even Liberals have admitted in this thread, just because you are a doctor does not make you smart

This...is true. I lectured for one of the premed intro to physics courses. Some of the questions brought up damn near floored me. I had a quiz question that boiled down to if a = b, and b = c, a's relation to c is...? Half of the class walked up with glassy eyed stares and didn't have the faintest idea where to even begin.


"Can I get extra credit?!"
"... This is a one credit hour lab course. There IS no extra credit."
"But I need extra credit!"
"This is a one credit hour lab course. It is, literally, going to be .01 of your GPA, even if you get a B or a C. No one is going to care."
"BUT IF I DON'T GET EXTRA CREDIT AND GET AN A++++ I WON'T GET INTO MED SCHOOL!!!"
"Please go away."
 
2012-10-03 04:38:05 PM  

cman: Did you know that Lizard people were responsible for the 9/11 attacks? They were convinced to carry out these attacks from a conspiracy of NPR, the GOP, global bankers, oil pricks, and Santa Claus


It's not really a conspiracy theory if she was correct (or almost correct - see Dusk's post), dumbass.
 
2012-10-03 04:40:20 PM  

Corvus: I know I will probably get some flak about this. But for the schooling and the work that most Doctors do (not counting the plastic surgeons or Lazeks guys) , Doctors ARE underpaid. But I am not sure why they think Obamacare is going to make it worse. Most nurses are underpaid too. But once again having more patients that are actually paying into the system and forcing the insurance companies to spend money on actual medical care should make you paid more not less.

I think actually under Obamacare you might see a big push for more general doctors because they will be needed more and when demand goes up, pay should go up too.


In Tennessee, they have Tenncare and about half of all doctors dont take it, because it does not pay enough to cover costs. Pay can only go up if the insurance companies increase the payout to doctors, and that will never happen.
 
2012-10-03 04:40:26 PM  

Rent Party: You do know that it doesn't matter how big the population is, so long as it's randomly sampled, right? 14,000 responses gives you a margin of error of less than 1% whether the population is 60,000 6,000,000 or 6,000,000,000.


14,000 self-selected respondents out of 600,000 people who got the survey is not a valid farking sample
 
2012-10-03 04:41:38 PM  
Haha oh I get it, you were saying "well you are right however you were still wrong, I KNOW STATISTICS"
 
2012-10-03 04:43:48 PM  

Fluorescent Testicle: cman: Did you know that Lizard people were responsible for the 9/11 attacks? They were convinced to carry out these attacks from a conspiracy of NPR, the GOP, global bankers, oil pricks, and Santa Claus

It's not really a conspiracy theory if she was correct (or almost correct - see Dusk's post), dumbass.


Forgive me, I have a tendency to take conspiracy claims with a grain of salt. This is from prior experience. I was once a truther who drank the moron kool-aide. When I actually processed what was told to me, I figured out they were full of shiat.

Conspiracy theorists have no political lines. Right wing conspiracy theorists believe that the Government is out there to enslave/kill everybody, and liberal conspiracy theorists believe that big business is out there to enslave/kill everybody. Different sides of the same coin, actually.
 
2012-10-03 04:44:38 PM  

Jackson Herring: Rent Party: You do know that it doesn't matter how big the population is, so long as it's randomly sampled, right? 14,000 responses gives you a margin of error of less than 1% whether the population is 60,000 6,000,000 or 6,000,000,000.

14,000 self-selected respondents out of 600,000 people who got the survey is not a valid farking sample


You know how I know you don't know how to read? It's because the very last thing I said in that post was...

The problem with this survey isn't the sample size. It is way more than adequate. It's the fact that the responders are self selected, and therefore already biased. They respond because they have an axe to grind.

The sample size is more than valid. It's farking fantastic from a survey size point of view.
 
2012-10-03 04:45:22 PM  

cman: Fluorescent Testicle: cman: Did you know that Lizard people were responsible for the 9/11 attacks? They were convinced to carry out these attacks from a conspiracy of NPR, the GOP, global bankers, oil pricks, and Santa Claus

It's not really a conspiracy theory if she was correct (or almost correct - see Dusk's post), dumbass.

Forgive me, I have a tendency to take conspiracy claims with a grain of salt. This is from prior experience. I was once a truther who drank the moron kool-aide. When I actually processed what was told to me, I figured out they were full of shiat.

Conspiracy theorists are everywhere and the idea of these conspiracies knows no political line. Right wing conspiracy theorists believe that the Government is out there to enslave/kill everybody, and liberal conspiracy theorists believe that big business is out there to enslave/kill everybody. Different sides of the same coin, actually.


Fixt. Was meaning to rewrite that before I hit Add Comment
 
2012-10-03 04:46:02 PM  
Six paragraphs of how discouraged and concerned doctors are that they can't provide care to people, and not one hard fact about why this is so, other than that they are "overworked."

I'm so sorry you are discouraged and concerned. If you can't find a way to provide care to your patients, maybe you should find another line of work.
 
2012-10-03 04:46:17 PM  
Wasn't the Fox bobble head argument that the uninsured should just clog up the Emergency rooms?
 
2012-10-03 04:46:29 PM  

Jackson Herring: Haha oh I get it, you were saying "well you are right however you were still wrong, I KNOW STATISTICS"


No, I'm saying that this statement; "Nope. If you randomly asked 14000 (or even 1400) out of however many doctors (or whatevers) and the vast majority responded, that would have a slim margin of error."

Is categorically wrong. As in "You are not right under any circumstance."
 
2012-10-03 04:48:27 PM  

cman: Forgive me, I have a tendency to take conspiracy claims with a grain of salt. This is from prior experience. I was once a truther who drank the moron kool-aide. When I actually processed what was told to me, I figured out they were full of shiat.

Conspiracy theorists have no political lines. Right wing conspiracy theorists believe that the Government is out there to enslave/kill everybody, and liberal conspiracy theorists believe that big business is out there to enslave/kill everybody. Different sides of the same coin, actually.


Maybe you should not take yourself so seriously. I don't know, read a Pratchett book.
 
2012-10-03 04:50:30 PM  

spiderpaz: So treating more people, regardless of how its paid for is a BAD thing because doctors don't want more work? So instead, those 30 million extra people should just FARK off? Wow, this guy is the worst doctor ever.


THIS!


I cannot fathom how any sane individual would seriously complain that "Obamacare sucks because more people will get to see a doctor."

I get that we may not have enough doctors and stuff, but really guys? "I don't want more kids to have insurance because that means I'll have to wait an extra two days to get an appointment for my sore elbow!"
 
2012-10-03 04:52:32 PM  
Wait, about five months ago which I said doctors were generally overpaid douchebags I was almost drowned in a tidal wave of liberal tears about why I don't like medical professionals, and now here you are calling them overpaid douchebags. What gives?
 
2012-10-03 04:59:52 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: Wait, about five months ago which I said doctors were generally overpaid douchebags I was almost drowned in a tidal wave of liberal tears about why I don't like medical professionals, and now here you are calling them overpaid douchebags. What gives?


You're still butthurt over something on FARK five months ago? See a doctor.
 
2012-10-03 05:05:37 PM  

sage37: Various programs aired by my NPR affiliate have addressed this topic.
As far as I can tell, it boils down to the fact that there aren't enough doctors currently (or in the pipeline) to provide high-quality care with such a sudden influx in patients.
There were a lot of proponents for the small, quick check-up places you find in grocery stores. They just need to communicate with the PCP (assuming the patient has one... and if they're poor and newly insured, probably not, and may still seek ER care for issues Kroger/Safeway can't handle).


Though I concur that there aren't enough doctors to see everyone, I know that some docs offices use doctors to do things that could easily be done by an NP, RN, or PA... basic stuff like flu shots, follow up visits for non-complicated issues. Aside from that, hopefully shifting some of the load out of the ER will free up more doctors to be GPs instead of ER docs.
 
2012-10-03 05:07:29 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: Wait, about five months ago which I said doctors were generally overpaid douchebags I was almost drowned in a tidal wave of liberal tears about why I don't like medical professionals, and now here you are calling them overpaid douchebags. What gives?


Dearie, WE are not calling them overpaid douchebags. A doctor himself is sobbing about how he is being underpaid to care for his chronically ill and overly numerous patients and how the demands of paperwork and evil Obamacare will make it even harder for him to take care of them. He provides no examples of why this is so, merely moans that it's "SO HAAAARRD to take care of all the paperwork! I don't get paid enough to do it!"

I mean, come on. He IS being a douchebag here, dontcha think?
 
2012-10-03 05:10:45 PM  

cman: DamnYankees: cman: DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.

I dont know about you, but when I get random surveys in the mail, I tend to just ignore them.

This was on online poll.

Doesnt matter. If I see random surveys pop up, I ignore them. How many times I have declined the Fark scorecard survey? I have no idea. That one pops up at least once a month.


Lets say I'm a doctor and I'm busy planning my evening of driving around in my porsche hitting on women young enough to babysit my kids. I open my email box and deal with some mail which actually effects my ability to put gas in my porsche.....then I see this link to an online survey.....its the last email and the only thing holding me back from grabbing my keys and flogging the stereotype......Do i complete the survey.....or do I get on with my life?

Biatches ahoy.
 
2012-10-03 05:11:07 PM  

StrangeQ: cman: FarkedOver: Some doctors actually have the nerve to advocate for universal health care. Sadly those doctors get assassinated.

[www.biography.com image 402x402]

As even Liberals have admitted in this thread, just because you are a doctor does not make you smart

This...is true. I lectured for one of the premed intro to physics courses. Some of the questions brought up damn near floored me. I had a quiz question that boiled down to if a = b, and b = c, a's relation to c is...? Half of the class walked up with glassy eyed stares and didn't have the faintest idea where to even begin.


Those kids are going to be sooo pissed when they take the MCAT and find out it's more a test of critical reasoning than subject-specific knowledge.
 
2012-10-03 05:12:00 PM  
Man, what a terrible side effect of universal health care: A demand for more doctors.

It's really going to suck when we start making medical school more accessible in terms of cost so we can fill this labor gap. It's going to mean everyone's worst nightmare: More Doctors.

More highly educated health professionals that A) Make good money B) Pay taxes C) Advocate healthier lifestyles D) Increase the availability of health care.

Oh, the humanity. What kind of world are we creating for our children?
 
2012-10-03 05:13:11 PM  
Doctors decide how many patients they serve and what kinds of insurance they will accept. So they can't be overworked or underpaid.
 
2012-10-03 05:15:45 PM  

cman: Lunaville: Isn't the Physicians' Foundation one of those right wing groups that tries to front as neutral? Does anyone know whether they are funded by the Koch brothers?

Did you know that Lizard people were responsible for the 9/11 attacks? They were convinced to carry out these attacks from a conspiracy of NPR, the GOP, global bankers, oil pricks, and Santa Claus


www.lizardpersonornot.com
 
2012-10-03 05:19:27 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Holocaust Agnostic: Wait, about five months ago which I said doctors were generally overpaid douchebags I was almost drowned in a tidal wave of liberal tears about why I don't like medical professionals, and now here you are calling them overpaid douchebags. What gives?

Dearie, WE are not calling them overpaid douchebags. A doctor himself is sobbing about how he is being underpaid to care for his chronically ill and overly numerous patients and how the demands of paperwork and evil Obamacare will make it even harder for him to take care of them. He provides no examples of why this is so, merely moans that it's "SO HAAAARRD to take care of all the paperwork! I don't get paid enough to do it!"

I mean, come on. He IS being a douchebag here, dontcha think?


Yes! I think doctors are mostly douchebags!

Said it right up there.
 
2012-10-03 05:22:27 PM  
The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded...

So a little over 2% responded - that's some fine statistical work there, Lou.
 
2012-10-03 05:24:19 PM  

fenianfark: croesius: But he said doctors are underpaid!

[graphics8.nytimes.com image 427x365]

Those poor underpaid GPs!


But I know in most of those countries, medical school is much more affordable/subsidized than here. If you require doctors to take on more debt to enter the profession, they're going to want to get paid more.
 
2012-10-03 05:24:23 PM  
Does this survey invalidate the American Medical Association coming out for Obamacare--not because it was so good, but because the system we have now is so incredibly farked that they figured hey, it couldn't possibly be any worse than what we already have?

Because the AMA backed Obamacare.
 
2012-10-03 05:24:50 PM  

DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.


Wait...they're discussing this horrible poll yet again?

Wasn't this the one that said 86% of all doctors are going to rage quit their $150,000 / year professions and become greeters at WalMart?
 
2012-10-03 05:26:12 PM  

trippdogg: The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded...

So a little over 2% responded - that's some fine statistical work there, Lou.


That is, in fact, a fine sample size.

Doesn't matter if it's 14,000 out of 6,000,000,000,000. The margin for error is the same, as is the confidence value.

The sample selection method sucks. The sample size is fine.
 
2012-10-03 05:39:21 PM  

trippdogg: The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded...

So a little over 2% responded - that's some fine statistical work there, Lou.


FSM, don't start this again. RTFT.
 
2012-10-03 05:41:05 PM  

CreativeFarkHandle: StrangeQ: cman: FarkedOver: Some doctors actually have the nerve to advocate for universal health care. Sadly those doctors get assassinated.

[www.biography.com image 402x402]

As even Liberals have admitted in this thread, just because you are a doctor does not make you smart

This...is true. I lectured for one of the premed intro to physics courses. Some of the questions brought up damn near floored me. I had a quiz question that boiled down to if a = b, and b = c, a's relation to c is...? Half of the class walked up with glassy eyed stares and didn't have the faintest idea where to even begin.

Those kids are going to be sooo pissed when they take the MCAT and find out it's more a test of critical reasoning than subject-specific knowledge.


I actually teach MCAT review classes occasionally, and a pretty consistent 10% of the kids in those classes can barely do basic algebra. And these are the kids who think they should become doctors. It'd be more depressing if I thought you could get a good score when you need to write out every little step.

\Why do kids suck at math so bad? It's really only a hard subject if you've been taught it is.
 
2012-10-03 05:45:42 PM  
 
2012-10-03 05:47:32 PM  

Rent Party: StrangeQ: cman: FarkedOver: Some doctors actually have the nerve to advocate for universal health care. Sadly those doctors get assassinated.

[www.biography.com image 402x402]

As even Liberals have admitted in this thread, just because you are a doctor does not make you smart

This...is true. I lectured for one of the premed intro to physics courses. Some of the questions brought up damn near floored me. I had a quiz question that boiled down to if a = b, and b = c, a's relation to c is...? Half of the class walked up with glassy eyed stares and didn't have the faintest idea where to even begin.

I grew up on a farm located at the base of a hill. The guy on the next farm over was an MD. I remember my dad and I sitting on our pasture fence watching the doctor try to dislodge a large boulder from his lot. On a really steep hill. With him on the downside.

"Shouldn't we help him, Dad?"

"Nah... He'll learn. He's a doctor."

Fortunately, the doc was quick enough to not get killed.


My father is not a doctor and has never played one on T.V., but he once leaned his ladder against the very tree limb that he sawed off of a tree.
 
2012-10-03 05:49:07 PM  

Lunaville:
Fortunately, the doc was quick enough to not get killed.

My father is not a doctor and has never played one on T.V., but he once leaned his ladder against the very tree limb that he sawed off of a tree.


Hah. My dad was a fire fighter, and I watched him staple his index finger and middle finger together with a nail gun once.
 
2012-10-03 05:59:51 PM  

joonyer: Man, what a terrible side effect of universal health care: A demand for more doctors.

It's really going to suck when we start making medical school more accessible in terms of cost so we can fill this labor gap. It's going to mean everyone's worst nightmare: More Doctors.

More highly educated health professionals that A) Make good money B) Pay taxes C) Advocate healthier lifestyles D) Increase the availability of health care.

Oh, the humanity. What kind of world are we creating for our children?


I have this fantasy wherein the government funds med school for 100 people per year. It's rather an elaborate fantasy so, hopefully, my description won't bore anyone to tears. Each year all interested military personnel or veterans could take the MCAT at the governments' expense with the intent of applying to a government funded medical training program. Let's call it Med-corp for now. Civilians could also apply to Med-corp, but the government will not pay for their MCAT. Of the applicants applying to Med-corp, each year, the individuals with the top 100 scores would be chosen to attend medical school for free. The government would pay for it. In return, graduates of Med-corp, upon receiving the requisite license to practice medicine, would agree to be assigned to work in underprivileged communities with a dearth of available healthcare for four years. Once new doctors began to be produced by Med-corp, ideally, two doctors would be assigned to each state each year. Assignments would be made in order beginning from the poorest county within a state and working gradually towards wealthier ones. Once our Med-corp doctors have completed their four years on assignment, they would be free to practice medicine where ever they like.
 
2012-10-03 06:01:14 PM  
Oh goodie, another self-selected sample...just like the Daily Caller's excellent "83 percent of doctors have contemplated retirement instead of having to deal with Obamacare" survey.
 
2012-10-03 06:03:09 PM  

Citrate1007: Which is why Mitt Romney's suggestion of letting the poor go to emergency rooms and having everyone else pay for it is better....plus poor people get such great service there too.

Mitt Romney's Healthcare Solution


As someone who is unemployed, uninsured and had a heart attack last week Mitt can kiss my rosy red butt.
 
2012-10-03 06:15:25 PM  

Meanniss: Citrate1007: Which is why Mitt Romney's suggestion of letting the poor go to emergency rooms and having everyone else pay for it is better....plus poor people get such great service there too.

Mitt Romney's Healthcare Solution

As someone who is unemployed, uninsured and had a heart attack last week Mitt can kiss my rosy red butt.


Isn't it fun? I had to wait a week to go to County to get my mental health file opened to even see IF they'll fund my meds again.
 
2012-10-03 06:21:42 PM  

Lunaville: I have this fantasy wherein the government funds med school for 100 people per year.


I have this fantasy where we graduate 25% more doctors per year, and more than half of them have their education paid for.

Might as well go for the gold.
 
2012-10-03 06:26:43 PM  

cman: croesius: But he said doctors are underpaid! Won't anyone think of the millions of destitute doctors, living under bridges and scrounging for their next meal?

And I thought this was America.

Everybody in the United States believes they are underpaid.


mostly because they are. stagnant wages for 30 years will do that.
 
2012-10-03 06:32:10 PM  

fenianfark: croesius: But he said doctors are underpaid!

[graphics8.nytimes.com image 427x365]

Those poor underpaid GPs!


How much are the physicians in your chart netting after expenses? And how many of those other countries subsidize or pay outright for a medical education, so their doctors don't start their careers burdened by debt, how much training is required to become a physician in, say, Mexico, and how well can one live per unit of income in each country? A chart of "Here's what everyone makes, gross" is useless for comparison purposes.
 
2012-10-03 06:46:09 PM  
LOL Hippocratic Oath!
 
2012-10-03 06:56:15 PM  
Doctors are not under payed but their student debt load restricts them from making as much as they would like. As for the shortage cut the cost to train to be a doctor and you will likely find more willing to go that route.

Right now many just don't see it being worth it when you calculate cost of the degree + interests on the loans needed pay for said degree and compare it to salaries to many it just add up to workable as a career.

Stop cutting funds to education, restore what has been cut make it illegal to cut it again.

mandate a fair maximum amount of tuition chargeable for public colleges with the ability to be adjusted for fair increase in costs.
 
2012-10-03 07:19:12 PM  

LikeALeafOnTheWind: cman: croesius: But he said doctors are underpaid! Won't anyone think of the millions of destitute doctors, living under bridges and scrounging for their next meal?

And I thought this was America.

Everybody in the United States believes they are underpaid.

mostly because they are. stagnant wages for 30 years will do that.


The flip side of this of course is everyone in the United States is also convinced that everyone who isn't them is overpaid.
 
2012-10-03 07:24:17 PM  
One of the biggest issues these days for doctors is the legal aspects of practice, this is why single MD practices are going under...reimbursement is low and insurance rates high. Has nothing to do with Obamacare, this has been going on for over a decade. That's why inividual practice doctors as GPs etc wont make it.

I have many friends who are MDs, and med tort limit states are real draws for them to move to.
 
2012-10-03 07:26:03 PM  
There have only been a few thousand threads on this topic, and they all sort of bleed together and become white noise to me... so forgive me if this has been addressed. Do all of these Chicken Little "ZOMG!! THERE AREN'T ENOUGH DOCTORS!!" types believe that ALL 30 million people are currently sick and likely to make an appointment the first week the program is running?
 
2012-10-03 07:35:21 PM  

cmunic8r99: cman: DamnYankees: cman: DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.

I dont know about you, but when I get random surveys in the mail, I tend to just ignore them.

This was on online poll.

Doesnt matter. If I see random surveys pop up, I ignore them. How many times I have declined the Fark scorecard survey? I have no idea. That one pops up at least once a month.

I don't think the brightest doctors responded to the survey. For example, one physician said, "A mechanic makes $80-$100 an hour. A physician makes less money but has lots of student loan debts, has to pay so many licenses, etc." (pg 53)


The dumb f**k probably thinks that because mechanic shops charge 60-90 an hour, that's what mechanics get paid.
 
2012-10-03 07:36:32 PM  

Lunaville: joonyer: Man, what a terrible side effect of universal health care: A demand for more doctors.

It's really going to suck when we start making medical school more accessible in terms of cost so we can fill this labor gap. It's going to mean everyone's worst nightmare: More Doctors.

More highly educated health professionals that A) Make good money B) Pay taxes C) Advocate healthier lifestyles D) Increase the availability of health care.

Oh, the humanity. What kind of world are we creating for our children?

I have this fantasy wherein the government funds med school for 100 people per year. It's rather an elaborate fantasy so, hopefully, my description won't bore anyone to tears. Each year all interested military personnel or veterans could take the MCAT at the governments' expense with the intent of applying to a government funded medical training program. Let's call it Med-corp for now. Civilians could also apply to Med-corp, but the government will not pay for their MCAT. Of the applicants applying to Med-corp, each year, the individuals with the top 100 scores would be chosen to attend medical school for free. The government would pay for it. In return, graduates of Med-corp, upon receiving the requisite license to practice medicine, would agree to be assigned to work in underprivileged communities with a dearth of available healthcare for four years. Once new doctors began to be produced by Med-corp, ideally, two doctors would be assigned to each state each year. Assignments would be made in order beginning from the poorest county within a state and working gradually towards wealthier ones. Once our Med-corp doctors have completed their four years on assignment, they would be free to practice medicine where ever they like.


I would not have a problem with my tax dollars going to this sort of thing. I like it.
 
2012-10-03 07:36:32 PM  

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: I have many friends who are MDs, and med tort limit states are real draws for them to move to.


As far as I know, there's only five or so states that don't have formal medical tort caps in place. California has for over 20 years. Since 99% of medical torts are filed in state courts, I guess it's reasonable that it's a state-level regulation, but it's kinda a red herring to whine about at this point.
 
2012-10-03 08:11:04 PM  
There aren't enough Doctors is just sort of another way of saying "God damn, I wish you and your family couldn't afford to see a doctor because me or my family might have to see one, maybe".
 
2012-10-03 08:35:46 PM  

jso2897: cmunic8r99: cman: DamnYankees: cman: DamnYankees: (The survey was sent to over 600,000 doctors and over 14,000 responded).

Is it just me, or is this a horrifically bad response rate? This poll seems farked up.

I dont know about you, but when I get random surveys in the mail, I tend to just ignore them.

This was on online poll.

Doesnt matter. If I see random surveys pop up, I ignore them. How many times I have declined the Fark scorecard survey? I have no idea. That one pops up at least once a month.

I don't think the brightest doctors responded to the survey. For example, one physician said, "A mechanic makes $80-$100 an hour. A physician makes less money but has lots of student loan debts, has to pay so many licenses, etc." (pg 53)

The dumb f**k probably thinks that because mechanic shops charge 60-90 an hour, that's what mechanics get paid.


Some of the comments they put in the study report were fairly insightful. Others were full of butthurt. Still others were just derptastic.
 
2012-10-03 09:01:39 PM  

grimlock1972: Doctors are not under payed but their student debt load restricts them from making as much as they would like. As for the shortage cut the cost to train to be a doctor and you will likely find more willing to go that route.

Right now many just don't see it being worth it when you calculate cost of the degree + interests on the loans needed pay for said degree and compare it to salaries to many it just add up to workable as a career.

Stop cutting funds to education, restore what has been cut make it illegal to cut it again.

mandate a fair maximum amount of tuition chargeable for public colleges with the ability to be adjusted for fair increase in costs.


I like the idea of regulating what public colleges can charge for tuition. Similar to regulating utilities, it would help keep consumers, and in the case of public colleges the taxpayers, from being exploited. I would really like to see grants utilized for intensely needed fields such as medicine.
 
2012-10-03 09:10:36 PM  

Lunaville: I have this fantasy wherein the government funds med school for 100 people per year. It's rather an elaborate fantasy so, hopefully, my description won't bore anyone to tears. Each year all interested military personnel or veterans could take the MCAT at the governments' expense with the intent of applying to a government funded medical training program. Let's call it Med-corp for now. Civilians could also apply to Med-corp, but the government will not pay for their MCAT. Of the applicants applying to Med-corp, each year, the individuals with the top 100 scores would be chosen to attend medical school for free. The government would pay for it. In return, graduates of Med-corp, upon receiving the requisite license to practice medicine, would agree to be assigned to work in underprivileged communities with a dearth of available healthcare for four years. Once new doctors began to be produced by Med-corp, ideally, two doctors would be assigned to each state each year. Assignments would be made in order beginning from the poorest county within a state and working gradually towards wealthier ones. Once our Med-corp doctors have completed their four years on assignment, they would be free to practice medicine where ever they like.


Medical school costs footed by the government, doctor required to work in a rural community for four years then free to do as he wishes? I think I've seen this post before.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-10-03 09:13:44 PM  

Karac: Lunaville: I have this fantasy wherein the government funds med school for 100 people per year. It's rather an elaborate fantasy so, hopefully, my description won't bore anyone to tears. Each year all interested military personnel or veterans could take the MCAT at the governments' expense with the intent of applying to a government funded medical training program. Let's call it Med-corp for now. Civilians could also apply to Med-corp, but the government will not pay for their MCAT. Of the applicants applying to Med-corp, each year, the individuals with the top 100 scores would be chosen to attend medical school for free. The government would pay for it. In return, graduates of Med-corp, upon receiving the requisite license to practice medicine, would agree to be assigned to work in underprivileged communities with a dearth of available healthcare for four years. Once new doctors began to be produced by Med-corp, ideally, two doctors would be assigned to each state each year. Assignments would be made in order beginning from the poorest county within a state and working gradually towards wealthier ones. Once our Med-corp doctors have completed their four years on assignment, they would be free to practice medicine where ever they like.

Medical school costs footed by the government, doctor required to work in a rural community for four years then free to do as he wishes? I think I've seen this post before.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 250x192]


I'd forgotten about Northern Exposure. I assume the premise of the show was similar to what I'm suggesting? I didn't own a T.V. when it was on the air. I saw it a few times only because I was dating a guy who liked it.
 
2012-10-03 10:53:57 PM  
Most of the physicians I've met work pretty long hours, are at work very early in the morning, and have pretty crushing school debt after 7 or 8 years of schooling, residency, etc. There are lots of greedy physicians out there, but there are also greedy mechanics, teachers, lawyers, engineers, etc. I think that many of the commenters in this thread have no idea what it's like to have to see more patients every hour of the day just to break even because of insurance and medicare cost-cutting measures and because of the extra staff it takes to sift through all the bureaucracy. But the real problem is that when medicine becomes very cheap or free (little or no cost to the recipients), overuse is rampant. It's legalized fraud on the part of many patients and many providers. Patients who are generally healthy but have a specific problem, especially those who continue to work normal hours, have a difficult time getting the attention they need because a bunch of dumbass freeloaders and complainers who eat, smoke, drink, and drug themselves to death have all the time in the world to waste filling up waiting rooms and hospitals with their own overblown or self-created problems, and their children's emergency ear infections that they've had for a week already. Physicians and other providers who want to provide quality care to people who need it are overwhelmed by regulations, lawsuit fear, decreasing reimbursement rates, and increased numbers of patients.

If you work with patients in a hospital, physicians' office, or nursing home, most of this stuff should be obvious to you. If you don't, please talk to someone who does, so you can understand what it's like on the inside. Everyone knows or has met an a-hole doctor or two in their lives, but a few selfish, greedy, inconsiderate people do not validate the argument for increased government expenditure on medical treatment.
 
2012-10-03 11:22:16 PM  

BoxOfBees: But the real problem is that when medicine becomes very cheap or free (little or no cost to the recipients), overuse is rampant.


Is this the "If I had medical insurance I'd see the doctor every day" canard? I love this one.
 
2012-10-03 11:36:08 PM  

BoxOfBees: But the real problem is that when medicine becomes very cheap or free (little or no cost to the recipients), overuse is rampant.


You know how I know you're full of shiat? As can be seen in the rest of the developed world, where medical care is very cheap or free to the recipients, they get more preventative care than we do, which results in less usage of the more expensive medical procedures. Any competent doctor, in the US or elsewhere, will tell you that good preventative care is cheaper and more effective than waiting until you get sick or hurt.
 
2012-10-03 11:49:20 PM  

Fart_Machine: BoxOfBees: But the real problem is that when medicine becomes very cheap or free (little or no cost to the recipients), overuse is rampant.

Is this the "If I had medical insurance I'd see the doctor every day" canard? I love this one.


If I had medical insurance, I'd see my doctor every month. It would cost a lot less than seeing my doctor once or twice a year, when I'm at death's door and I have to have acute-care treatment that costs five times as much, like the last time I had bronchitis they thought was pneumonia requiring ten hours in the ER and chest x-rays; or when I need inpatient psychiatric treatment at $1000 a day plus medication and doctor's care (tack on another $600/day).

I know you bootstrappy conservative types think that's ridiculous and that regular treatment is horribly overpriced, but trust me, if I could get regular visits to my primary care doctor and my psychiatrist, even at the cost of monthly med checks and medications; it STILL works out to be less than emergency room care or a week's stay in a psych ward.
 
2012-10-04 12:26:16 AM  
The veterinary world would like to respond to the "physicians are underpaid" comment but they are too busy laughing on the floor.
 
2012-10-04 01:43:18 AM  

Darwin's Prophet: The veterinary world would like to respond to the "physicians are underpaid" comment but they are too busy laughing on the floor.


In case you're a vet and that's why you're saying that:
From now on, I'm going to the vet
 
2012-10-04 07:36:47 AM  
Here's how to fix both the doctor and nurse problem :

TRAIN 'LOTS MORE' DOCTORS AND NURSES.

Farking A.
 
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