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(The New York Times)   ..and once we bulldoze this Frank Lloyd Wright home, we'll head on over to the Louvre   (nytimes.com) divider line 54
    More: Sad, Frank Lloyd Wright, David Wright, new light, private property rights, Guggenheim Museum, McMansion  
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18006 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2012 at 3:33 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-03 03:50:16 PM
3 votes:
Bulldozing a Frank Lloyd Wright house is to architecture as a Darwin award recipient dying is to the gene pool.
2012-10-03 03:41:50 PM
3 votes:
BFD. Ugly house. If you own the property, do what you want. No one even knew about this thing but now it must be "saved"???
2012-10-03 07:34:22 PM
2 votes:

Duke_leto_Atredes: flat roofs leak boy


That's a myth. When built correctly and maintained a flat roof should last a minimum of 30 years and never leak, and I've seen many last over 50 with no problems (I even know one that lasted 95 years). Repairs are also easier in most situations (providing you don't use a non-adhered material like EPDM). They also give you the option of a green roof, and rooftop patios.

Shingle roofs don't last as long, are more difficult to maintain and are more prone to premature failure. Initial cost is cheaper, but not in the long run.
2012-10-03 04:14:15 PM
2 votes:

This text is now purple: If the doorframes are all too low and the interiors designed without storage spaces, then they are the very model of FLW architecture.


Hence the "sociopath" label. FLW wanted people to conform to his designs, not the other way around.

Which is, btw, why Kentuck Knob is so different from other Usonian homes -- Mrs. Hagan badgered him into much needed adjustments to the original design. Kitchen's still too small, though.
2012-10-03 04:07:37 PM
2 votes:

scanman61: BuckTurgidson: They're lucky it hasn't fallen down on its own. FLW: beautiful architecture, faith-based engineering.

Yup...FLW was one of those architects who wasn't going to let some Goddard engineer tell him how his designs should be constructed.

The only reason Falling Water is still standing is because of the extra rebar the engineers snuck in during construction, which Wright told them his design didn't need.


And *still* it sagged.

It's a beautiful house and his work is terrific, but FLW was a sociopath.

/A terrible urban planner too.
2012-10-03 03:53:41 PM
2 votes:

JackieRabbit: Developers are greedy, useless dicks. Whadyano? Around here, they'd throw up six McMansions in the same space the house occupied and they'd have the project completed in three months. Then they'd give it some absurd name like "Windermere Chase" and price them "from the high $600s".


And the houses are constructed like absolute shiat. A coworker bought a beautiful house, decent plot of land, good neighborhood. The house was about 5 years old when he bought it, and within two years of ownership, there wasn't an appliance that wasn't replaced, they had multiple infestations due to shoddy insulation and sealing, and multiple areas of flooding.

Thank you Ryan homes.
2012-10-03 02:54:08 PM
2 votes:
FTFA: "The place was uninhabited for four years and it had never been placed on a watch list," explained John Hoffman, managing partner of 8081 Meridian, when I called him on Monday. "We didn't close on the property until the city approved a lot split. The line through the property went through one end of the house, so it was an indirect approval for demolition."

Somebody here is a dick.
2012-10-03 02:39:05 PM
2 votes:
Granddaughters ... sold it to a buyer promising to fix it up and live in it. But the buyer did neither, and the place, on its 2.2-acre lot, went back on the market

They probably cut the guy a deal too, to preserve the place, but didn't get it in a contract. Not that you can generally tell someone what to do with their own property. But what Phoenix needs is more McMansions!


Disclaimer: I live in a Phoenix suburb McMansion.
2012-10-03 02:21:45 PM
2 votes:
Farking developers. Only care about dollar signs. Especially evident when the offer they got was probably juuuust under what they were asking.
2012-10-04 12:22:09 AM
1 votes:

Mouser: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: trippdogg: Looks more like Frank Lloyd Wrong (right?)

That's the house !? It looks like something out of a bad 70's sci-fi movie.

I'm thinking Planet of the Apes, myself. They should get some dudes in gorilla costumes to move in there.


You have to remember this thing was designed in 1952. Take a look around at other houses built during that time - they look old in style. The cinder block looks kind of tacky, but the guy designed the houses out of materials that were affordable at the time. A lot of big bridge and freeway construction was going on at the time and concrete was affordable. He built custom homes, but wanted his designs to be affordable to the average guy. May look 70's, but it was 20 years ahead of it's time.

A lot of his homes seem to have a few things in common. They look cool on the outside and seem larger than they are on the inside, The bedroom ceilings are low since all most do is sleep there anyway; easier to heat and the low ceiling provided room above for great rooms or patios that people use when they are awake. The kitchens usually have high ceilings and are narrow, so that food smells travel up and you don't have to move around much to cook a meal. They didn't have central air back then so a lot of the design was to account for this. The living room was where most spend time and he designed with angles and arches and great views. The first time you walk through one of these things they look kind of odd - but there is a reason behind every square foot. There's no reason houses couldn't be built "like" this by the common guy out of materials that are common today. People must be happy with square boxes.

He seemed to build a lot of furniture into the walls. This didn't work well since people like to personalize with furniture. His couches sucked.
2012-10-03 11:11:50 PM
1 votes:

OgreMagi: From what I have read, a FLW house was great to look at, but they aren't designed for actual people to live in. One example I vaguely remember reading is the owner complained that the design had a kitchen that was much too small to be useful and FLW though a hissy fit about it being art.

Is there an architecture fark expert that can correct me or provide more details?


There are a lot of concerns that people bring up today about what they see as shortcomings in his houses. Kitchens too small, ceilings too low, rooms too small, etc, but you are seeing today is through 21st century eyes. In the early 1900s, there were still a lot of people without indoor plumbing, let alone giant side-by-side fridges, King size beds, 52" plasma TVs, Central Air, and eight-piece bathrooms. A lot of furniture was built-in because most people didnt own more than a few basic pieces of furniture. Ceilings were low because thats less air volume you need to heat in the winter, and the large overhangs are to keep out the harsh summer sun.

The houses are liveable, albeit just so. Hosting dinner parties every sunday might be tough, but for a family to live, there was a sense of comfort and warmth to his homes.

If you really want to see what unlivable looks like, see what the Internationalists were doing at roughly the same time.
2012-10-03 09:05:24 PM
1 votes:
As an anonymous asshole on the internet, I think I can say with some authority that Frank Lloyd Wright is a talentless hack, and that I could design a better house.

Also, if I want to burn my Monets to keep warm, that's none of your business. World Heritage? P'shaw! This is America, and here we have a thing called property rights!
2012-10-03 07:11:08 PM
1 votes:

ggecko: BFD. Ugly house. If you own the property, do what you want. No one even knew about this thing but now it must be "saved"???


jigger: Judging by the slide show, the thing is hideous. Almost an eyesore.


Philistines.
2012-10-03 05:20:09 PM
1 votes:

LemSkroob: Whenever these stories pop up, its never about an owner who wants to say, rebuild another similiar home on the lot, or even extensively remodel what is there. No, its always a developer who wants to take a single family property and carve it into shoe boxes.

There isnt a single developer who has a soul.


Maybe your anger should be directed towards rising property values or stagnating wages, where families can only afford 1/x of the whole plot?
2012-10-03 05:16:26 PM
1 votes:
RTFA: blah blah blah views of orchards and such...
What views??? I didn't see 1 gotdammed window, so how does one "view" these beautiful orchards?
Just looked at first pic, too lazy to review anymore
2012-10-03 05:06:58 PM
1 votes:

Babboonrash: JackieRabbit: born_yesterday: JackieRabbit:
Exactly. They are just thrown together and these days thrown together by illegals who took $80K carpenter jobs "Americans don't want." My former boss bought one of them new. It sat on a whopping .2 acre lot. It was new, but within the first year he found that his house had been invaded by critters, because there was a 6 inch gap in some insulation board that was open to the crawlspace. Within six years, the roof had to be replaced and the foundation had severe cracks in several places. The house had to be piered in several places. Home warranty? Useless. And the developer and builder were long gone.

I don't know a damn thing about Ryan Homes, so everything that people in this thread are claiming may be true. But as a builder wih 18 years experience, I'm inclinded to let you know that there is a certain portion of people/home buyers are full of shiat.

I don't know what it's like to build in a city that doesn't have inspectable building codes. Not sure if your aware, but there's all of this "new crazy science stuff" involved with new home construction! Most of is stupid... like geotechnical soil analysis, engineered post tension or pier and beam foundations, span charts for specific species of wood, siesmic zone bracing (wind straps etc). I know what your thinking... that's just a bunch of farking witchcraft. I know, I have a hard time making myself belive otherwise on a daily basis! But there maybe a shred of truth to it!

I guess my rant was directed at the point of your story about 'your boss bought one'. What's to say the he wasn't a total farkng slob? Or that the previous owner didn't maintain their home? What if that specific issue was caused by the previous owner? And what does it matter that the house sat on .2 acres???? it was his dumb ass that decided it would be a suitable home to live in! And as far as the "home was infested" bullshiat... he bought a used home. Where was his due dilligence? Did he ...


try again.
2012-10-03 05:04:28 PM
1 votes:

raygundan: Marcintosh: When I think about voting for a Business Candidate, this type of crap comes to mind. Fark you and your almighty dollar. As you clutch your chest desperately gasping for your last breath the money you've made in this kind of deal won't do a damn thing for you.

Does preserving a piece of architecture do something for you while you're clutching your chest and desperately gasping for your last breath?


aside from knowing you contributed to the benefit of your fellow man? That you helped support the pursuit of fine art? That you tried to save a piece of work, not for yourself, but for others int he future to enjoy and appreciate?

Yeah, i'll take that. I think that would help me peacefully enjoy my last moments. At least better than knowing i owned fourteen TVs and six cars would.
2012-10-03 04:51:42 PM
1 votes:

FeFiFoFark: I'm surprised it's still standing


I'm sure the roof leaks. But hey, it's in Arizona.

It's actually a pretty sharp looking design at least from some of the pictures in the article. Reminds me a little of a Predock house I toured in Dallas once. Which makes me wonder if Predock studied this house during his time in the southwest.
2012-10-03 04:50:03 PM
1 votes:
Kentuck Knob in the fall has the most beautiful view I've ever seen. In South Louisiana we don't get fall colors, what does dye mostly just turns brown. The view of that valley looked like something I'd only seen in textbooks that described fall. Unbelievable. The house was nice, too.

F the developers in their ear. They want to ruin a landmark so they can pocket $400k instead of $200k for doing very little.
2012-10-03 04:41:56 PM
1 votes:
My dad was a big fan of FLW, and designed the house I grew up in with Falling Water in mind. It had a cantilevered wraparound deck, and was really quite striking. Unfortunately, the wood gets old, and after 40 years it sagged so much that I had to design a replacement railing for my mom, who's still there, that didn't cantilever. So now it's a more generic wrought-iron rail, but at least it won't fall down.

/csb
/I hate myself for doing it every time I see it, even though there was no choice
2012-10-03 04:41:14 PM
1 votes:

taliesinwi: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: scanman61: BuckTurgidson: They're lucky it hasn't fallen down on its own. FLW: beautiful architecture, faith-based engineering.

Yup...FLW was one of those architects who wasn't going to let some Goddard engineer tell him how his designs should be constructed.

The only reason Falling Water is still standing is because of the extra rebar the engineers snuck in during construction, which Wright told them his design didn't need.

And *still* it sagged.


I seem to recall hearing it sagged _more_ because of the extra weight of the "unnecessary" rebar. So who knows.


It sagged, but didn't collapse. FLW's original design would have failed in spectacular fashion.

Terrific architect; rubbish engineer.
2012-10-03 04:36:38 PM
1 votes:

Pray 4 Mojo: To those biatching about "developers":

If you didn't design, commission or contract your own home... please STFU.


What the hell is that supposed to mean? For example, my uncle not only designed, commissioned, and contracted his own home, he BUILT the entire damn thing--a 1600-foot log cabin--by himself, save for the electrical wiring. I guess he's allowed to biatch about developers even more than you!
2012-10-03 04:31:44 PM
1 votes:

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: scanman61: BuckTurgidson: They're lucky it hasn't fallen down on its own. FLW: beautiful architecture, faith-based engineering.

Yup...FLW was one of those architects who wasn't going to let some Goddard engineer tell him how his designs should be constructed.

The only reason Falling Water is still standing is because of the extra rebar the engineers snuck in during construction, which Wright told them his design didn't need.

And *still* it sagged.


I seem to recall hearing it sagged _more_ because of the extra weight of the "unnecessary" rebar. So who knows.

2012-10-03 04:29:34 PM
1 votes:

AFKobel: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Who gives a shiat? It's an old house that some guy who invented flying once lived in. Big whoop

A dude named Orville Wright,
Told his bro lets invent flight,
So Wilbur said "a'ight",
Write it down muthafarkas


Last line doesn't rhyme for shiat.
/don't understand modern poetry.
2012-10-03 04:15:35 PM
1 votes:

taliesinwi: born_yesterday: JackieRabbit: Developers are greedy, useless dicks. Whadyano? Around here, they'd throw up six McMansions in the same space the house occupied and they'd have the project completed in three months. Then they'd give it some absurd name like "Windermere Chase" and price them "from the high $600s".

And the houses are constructed like absolute shiat. A coworker bought a beautiful house, decent plot of land, good neighborhood. The house was about 5 years old when he bought it, and within two years of ownership, there wasn't an appliance that wasn't replaced, they had multiple infestations due to shoddy insulation and sealing, and multiple areas of flooding.

Thank you Ryan homes.

I don't think I'd build a house today without having the Amish on figurative speed dial and the GPS coordinates of old growth forest.


That's exactly what my folks did. Mom designed it, and it's Amish built. Not sure about the Old Growth Forest wood tho..
2012-10-03 04:14:03 PM
1 votes:

born_yesterday: JackieRabbit: Developers are greedy, useless dicks. Whadyano? Around here, they'd throw up six McMansions in the same space the house occupied and they'd have the project completed in three months. Then they'd give it some absurd name like "Windermere Chase" and price them "from the high $600s".

And the houses are constructed like absolute shiat. A coworker bought a beautiful house, decent plot of land, good neighborhood. The house was about 5 years old when he bought it, and within two years of ownership, there wasn't an appliance that wasn't replaced, they had multiple infestations due to shoddy insulation and sealing, and multiple areas of flooding.

Thank you Ryan homes.


I don't think I'd build a house today without having the Amish on figurative speed dial and the GPS coordinates of old growth forest.
2012-10-03 04:11:09 PM
1 votes:
To those biatching about "developers":

If you didn't design, commission or contract your own home... please STFU.
2012-10-03 04:10:17 PM
1 votes:
You get use to this living in Houston. No building is safe.
2012-10-03 04:08:57 PM
1 votes:
there is an entire school in New Mexico devoted to studying Frank Llyod Wright's designs.

how the hell they managed to miss a house he designed for his son, I don't know.
2012-10-03 04:08:37 PM
1 votes:
There's a very cool Wright house locally that's for sale.

FARK: Sales Price: $3,750,000
2012-10-03 04:07:23 PM
1 votes:

I_Love_Cheesecake: Damn straight. What a crime it would be to lose this home. It's not the same as the Taleban blowing up the Bamiyan Buddha statutes, but it's just as infuriating and heartbreaking to those who love great art/architecture.


Wait, I thought they were bulldozing a Frank Lloyd Wright house? What does that have to do with great architecture?
2012-10-03 04:04:03 PM
1 votes:

Mr_H: Honest Bender: I just wanted to say that his falling water house is so beautiful inside and out that it causes me physical pain to be unable to own/live in it.

The house I live in was built by a student of Wright's. While not identical, it was heavily influenced by Falling Water. You can see lots of little elements from Wright's works in the place, really kind of cool.


Correcting myself: It was built by a student of Albert Dow, who in turn studied/worked with Wright.

/stupid work confusing my facts
//Dow House in Midland, MI is cool too
2012-10-03 04:00:28 PM
1 votes:
This is America. Not only can we learn nothing from history, it's no longer even taught.
2012-10-03 04:00:26 PM
1 votes:

Honest Bender: I just wanted to say that his falling water house is so beautiful inside and out that it causes me physical pain to be unable to own/live in it.


The house I live in was built by a student of Wright's. While not identical, it was heavily influenced by Falling Water. You can see lots of little elements from Wright's works in the place, really kind of cool.

/moving in november, house'll be on the market! :D
2012-10-03 03:59:19 PM
1 votes:
The cynicism on this site can be incredibly tiresome at times. Smarter than the room, no matter the subject.

/"that is who we are, dude"
//"welcome to Fark, dude"
2012-10-03 03:56:31 PM
1 votes:
JackieRabbit

Developers are greedy, useless dicks. Whadyano? Around here, they'd throw up six McMansions in the same space the house occupied and they'd have the project completed in three months. Then they'd give it some absurd name like "Windermere Chase" and price them "from the high $600s".

Fark you, diaf.

If you want to save it so farking bad you buy it. Till then stfu.

// more moon-bat private property is 'evil' bullsh-t
2012-10-03 03:56:02 PM
1 votes:
I've been in a number of Wright homes. Each and every one was drop dead amazing to look at. But, they were all not so great to live in.

That said, I'd give my left nut to experience the suffering of living in one.
2012-10-03 03:55:52 PM
1 votes:
It's from 1952. Who cares.

If you love it so much than raise some cash and buy it.
2012-10-03 03:54:53 PM
1 votes:
As an architect, all I can say is this:

Developers can be uncaring, petty beings.
2012-10-03 03:52:49 PM
1 votes:
They're lucky it hasn't fallen down on its own. FLW: beautiful architecture, faith-based engineering.
2012-10-03 03:51:43 PM
1 votes:
There's one of these stories every year. Apparently his homes, while architecturally significant, were built out of spit and toothpicks. They require colossal amounts of maintenance every year and most will continue to deteriorate no matter what is done to preserve them. I mean, look at this thing...it's built out of exposed cinder block.
2012-10-03 03:49:10 PM
1 votes:
I think this this concrete behemoth has been off the radar because its sofa king ugly, but it would still be a shame to have it demolished.
2012-10-03 03:48:41 PM
1 votes:
Developers are greedy, useless dicks. Whadyano? Around here, they'd throw up six McMansions in the same space the house occupied and they'd have the project completed in three months. Then they'd give it some absurd name like "Windermere Chase" and price them "from the high $600s".
2012-10-03 03:48:40 PM
1 votes:
How is a Frank Lloyd Wright house NOT worth $2.2 million? How the heck is the property value going to be improved by tearing it down?

I mean, here's the lot. Cut it in half with the house in one half, sell the unimproved half for $900,000 (about what an unimproved lot in that area goes for). The other lot would be worth $900,000 unimproved. If you don't think the Frank Lloyd house is worth an additional $400K, well, I have nothing to add.
2012-10-03 03:47:07 PM
1 votes:
I have the lego falling water model. I display it in my apartment as art and not a single person hasn't taken it seriously.
2012-10-03 03:46:33 PM
1 votes:

Honest Bender: I just wanted to say that his falling water house is so beautiful inside and out that it causes me physical pain to be unable to own/live in it.


Heh - I know one of the WPC board members for the house. He has two things to say to people who want to live there:

1. No closets
2. Rising damp
2012-10-03 03:43:23 PM
1 votes:

FriarReb98: Farking developers.


Yep. I can't decide if we should have them guillotined on the National Mall or just use a more-efficient firing squad.

But the family should take some of the blame. There's a wonderful example of a mid-modern house in Raleigh that will probably be torn down eventually. The parents left it to the kids who are apparently content to live off the trust fund. So when the house needed repairs, those repairs were never done. At one point, the in-floor heating system was refilled with water instead of glycol so the pipes and boiler have all rusted past the point of repair. Repairing that alone would mean tearing up the entire concrete and stone floor system, which would probably cost more than the value of the house.

I've seen this happen to significant houses (historically or architecturally) in a number of cases, in towns like Raleigh, Chapel Hill, and Wilmington. Some times the house can be saved, some times it's just a loss.
2012-10-03 03:42:59 PM
1 votes:
I just wanted to say that his falling water house is so beautiful inside and out that it causes me physical pain to be unable to own/live in it.
2012-10-03 03:42:49 PM
1 votes:
Judging by the slide show, the thing is hideous. Almost an eyesore.
2012-10-03 03:40:09 PM
1 votes:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Who gives a shiat? It's an old house that some guy who invented flying once lived in. Big whoop


Srsly?
2012-10-03 03:39:29 PM
1 votes:
Farking skin jobs.

i90.photobucket.com
2012-10-03 03:36:15 PM
1 votes:
Who gives a shiat? It's an old house that some guy who invented flying once lived in. Big whoop
2012-10-03 03:01:17 PM
1 votes:
In retrospect, steps should have been taken long ago, by Wright's heirs and by city officials, to avoid all this.


Damn straight. What a crime it would be to lose this home. It's not the same as the Taleban blowing up the Bamiyan Buddha statutes, but it's just as infuriating and heartbreaking to those who love great art/architecture.
2012-10-03 02:51:50 PM
1 votes:
That's a pretty groovy design.  But is it built out of cinder block?  I think it would be even cooler covered with adobe.
 
Watch me ruin the architects vision!
 
Did monkey-face Jesus painting restoration teach us NOTHING?
 
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