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(The New York Times)   ..and once we bulldoze this Frank Lloyd Wright home, we'll head on over to the Louvre   (nytimes.com) divider line 162
    More: Sad, Frank Lloyd Wright, David Wright, new light, private property rights, Guggenheim Museum, McMansion  
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18011 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2012 at 3:33 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-03 05:06:58 PM  

Babboonrash: JackieRabbit: born_yesterday: JackieRabbit:
Exactly. They are just thrown together and these days thrown together by illegals who took $80K carpenter jobs "Americans don't want." My former boss bought one of them new. It sat on a whopping .2 acre lot. It was new, but within the first year he found that his house had been invaded by critters, because there was a 6 inch gap in some insulation board that was open to the crawlspace. Within six years, the roof had to be replaced and the foundation had severe cracks in several places. The house had to be piered in several places. Home warranty? Useless. And the developer and builder were long gone.

I don't know a damn thing about Ryan Homes, so everything that people in this thread are claiming may be true. But as a builder wih 18 years experience, I'm inclinded to let you know that there is a certain portion of people/home buyers are full of shiat.

I don't know what it's like to build in a city that doesn't have inspectable building codes. Not sure if your aware, but there's all of this "new crazy science stuff" involved with new home construction! Most of is stupid... like geotechnical soil analysis, engineered post tension or pier and beam foundations, span charts for specific species of wood, siesmic zone bracing (wind straps etc). I know what your thinking... that's just a bunch of farking witchcraft. I know, I have a hard time making myself belive otherwise on a daily basis! But there maybe a shred of truth to it!

I guess my rant was directed at the point of your story about 'your boss bought one'. What's to say the he wasn't a total farkng slob? Or that the previous owner didn't maintain their home? What if that specific issue was caused by the previous owner? And what does it matter that the house sat on .2 acres???? it was his dumb ass that decided it would be a suitable home to live in! And as far as the "home was infested" bullshiat... he bought a used home. Where was his due dilligence? Did he ...


try again.
 
2012-10-03 05:08:26 PM  

whatshisname: Pray 4 Mojo: To those biatching about "developers":

If you didn't design, commission or contract your own home... please STFU.

Do you use the same reasoning for other purchases? Cars? Appliances? University educations?


The thing is, unlike a car, appliance, etc, its quite easy to have a custom home designed.
 
2012-10-03 05:08:49 PM  
graphics8.nytimes.com

Looks more like Frank Lloyd Wrong (right?)
 
2012-10-03 05:11:48 PM  

taliesinwi:

I don't think I'd build a house today without having the Amish on figurative speed dial and the GPS coordinates of old growth forest.


"Dem hombres in beards an' funny sombreros are taking our yobs!"
 
2012-10-03 05:11:53 PM  

I'm saving my pennies for this one:

www.paconserve.org



/unfortunately it's built like shiat
 
2012-10-03 05:14:50 PM  

whatshisname: Pray 4 Mojo: To those biatching about "developers":

If you didn't design, commission or contract your own home... please STFU.

Do you use the same reasoning for other purchases? Cars? Appliances? University educations?


For tangible products... absolutely. Watch:

For those of you biatching about...

... car companies, if you didn't design, commission, build or contract your own car... please STFU.
... appliance companies, If you didn't design, commission, build or contract your own appliances... please STFU.

The education thing is a little different, since it's not an actual "thing"... but the logic still follows.

If evil, soulless and greedy bastards are ruining your utopia by building things people want... don't buy them.
 
2012-10-03 05:16:26 PM  
RTFA: blah blah blah views of orchards and such...
What views??? I didn't see 1 gotdammed window, so how does one "view" these beautiful orchards?
Just looked at first pic, too lazy to review anymore
 
2012-10-03 05:16:43 PM  
Demolish an architectural masterpiece of major historical significance in order to build 2 McMansions. Yeah, makes sense.


When I become world emperor, my first order of business will be to demolish all McMansions.
 
2012-10-03 05:17:10 PM  

LemSkroob: Babboonrash: JackieRabbit: born_yesterday: JackieRabbit:
Exactly. They are just thrown together and these days thrown together by illegals who took $80K carpenter jobs "Americans don't want." My former boss bought one of them new. It sat on a whopping .2 acre lot. It was new, but within the first year he found that his house had been invaded by critters, because there was a 6 inch gap in some insulation board that was open to the crawlspace. Within six years, the roof had to be replaced and the foundation had severe cracks in several places. The house had to be piered in several places. Home warranty? Useless. And the developer and builder were long gone.

I don't know a damn thing about Ryan Homes, so everything that people in this thread are claiming may be true. But as a builder wih 18 years experience, I'm inclinded to let you know that there is a certain portion of people/home buyers are full of shiat.

I don't know what it's like to build in a city that doesn't have inspectable building codes. Not sure if your aware, but there's all of this "new crazy science stuff" involved with new home construction! Most of is stupid... like geotechnical soil analysis, engineered post tension or pier and beam foundations, span charts for specific species of wood, siesmic zone bracing (wind straps etc). I know what your thinking... that's just a bunch of farking witchcraft. I know, I have a hard time making myself belive otherwise on a daily basis! But there maybe a shred of truth to it!

I guess my rant was directed at the point of your story about 'your boss bought one'. What's to say the he wasn't a total farkng slob? Or that the previous owner didn't maintain their home? What if that specific issue was caused by the previous owner? And what does it matter that the house sat on .2 acres???? it was his dumb ass that decided it would be a suitable home to live in! And as far as the "home was infested" bullshiat... he bought a used home. Where was his due dilligence? Did he ...


I see... I confused it with part of born_yesterday's post. I however, do not back away from the misinformed buyer theory.
 
2012-10-03 05:19:35 PM  
i.imgur.com

Looks like just another lowlife hippie house to me.

I keed I keed.
 
2012-10-03 05:20:09 PM  

LemSkroob: Whenever these stories pop up, its never about an owner who wants to say, rebuild another similiar home on the lot, or even extensively remodel what is there. No, its always a developer who wants to take a single family property and carve it into shoe boxes.

There isnt a single developer who has a soul.


Maybe your anger should be directed towards rising property values or stagnating wages, where families can only afford 1/x of the whole plot?
 
2012-10-03 05:25:09 PM  

trippdogg: [graphics8.nytimes.com image 600x350]

Looks more like Frank Lloyd Wrong (right?)


Hell, let the taggers know where it is, and wait a couple years - it will look just like a Gehry.
 
2012-10-03 05:25:51 PM  

CygnusDarius: As an architect, all I can say is this:

Developers can be uncaring, petty beings.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-03 05:26:27 PM  

MyPenIsHuge: RTFA: blah blah blah views of orchards and such...
What views??? I didn't see 1 gotdammed window, so how does one "view" these beautiful orchards?
Just looked at first pic, too lazy to review anymore


Judging by the overhead images... the "orchards" are all on the neighbors property anyway. The FLW house sits on a giant square of dirt and sand.

Pretty.
 
2012-10-03 05:33:31 PM  

Honest Bender: I just wanted to say that his falling water house is so beautiful inside and out that it causes me physical pain to be unable to own/live in it.


That's pretty cool. Not your pain, I mean... but that it affects you like that.

/FLW FTW.
 
2012-10-03 05:33:49 PM  

SpectroBoy: I'm saving my pennies for this one:

[www.paconserve.org image 580x505]


/unfortunately it's built like shiat


I like the concept, but not the engineering

I can think of a few places off the frio where I would love a cantilevered structure overlooking the river
 
2012-10-03 05:35:42 PM  
The house belongs to the developers. They have the right to tear it down if they want just as you have the right to tear down a house you own if you want. If someone else wants to save the house, let them make the developer an offer. There are enough wealthy people in Phoenix and Scottsdale they could put their money together and buy the house. Let them set up a non profit corporation to by and maintain the house. Then all the people who chip in can deduct their charitable contributions from their taxes.
 
2012-10-03 05:36:14 PM  
Some of FLW architecture is beautiful.

As for the house in the article, go ahead and tear that ugly POS down.
 
2012-10-03 05:37:23 PM  

Johnny Bananapeel: [i.imgur.com image 675x504]

Looks like just another lowlife hippie house to me.

I keed I keed.


Actually it looks as if it were a mansion in a favela.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-10-03 05:40:08 PM  
If you want to save the house then chip in and buy it.

Problem solved.
 
2012-10-03 05:49:14 PM  

trippdogg: Looks more like Frank Lloyd Wrong (right?)


That's the house !? It looks like something out of a bad 70's sci-fi movie.
 
2012-10-03 05:51:20 PM  
It may be that the demolition threat is being used as leverage to drive up the price to be paid by preservationists. Having just bought the house for $1.8 million, Mr. Hoffman said 8081 Meridian is looking to clear $2.2 million from any sale, and has so far rejected a cash offer floated several weeks ago from an anonymous, out-of-state Wright lover. This prospective buyer promised a little over $2 million, according to the realtor representing him.

Pretty much explains the whole story here. Next time, RTFA, people.
 
2012-10-03 05:53:26 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: trippdogg: Looks more like Frank Lloyd Wrong (right?)

That's the house !? It looks like something out of a bad 70's sci-fi movie.


I'm thinking Planet of the Apes, myself. They should get some dudes in gorilla costumes to move in there.
 
2012-10-03 06:08:28 PM  
There aren't hundreds of other houses around the country designed by Frank Lloyd Wright that are falling into disrepair because no one wants to buy them, so it's imperative this last remaining specimen be saved.
 
2012-10-03 06:27:18 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Who gives a shiat? It's an old house that some guy who invented flying once lived in. Big whoop


This.

Valiente: This is America. Not only can we learn nothing from history, it's no longer even taught.


Quit whining, Just because a building is "old' or "designed" by a "famous" person doesn't make it valuable or important.

Personally I use the following criteria: would people who lived during the time of construction have cared if it was torn down? If not, go ahead. if yes, keep it. Just imagine it this way: we demolish "modern" houses to make room for even more modern houses, yet we pay no attention to the "historical value" it might have 50 - 300 years from now. So if people back then didn't care about it, why should we? Just because it's old? That is a recipe for disaster as old buildings will only get older and harder to demolish to make room for more living space. Over here we have multiple old homesteads which used to belong to farmers back in the day. Preserving them all costs a lot of money and limits the amount of living space. Why not simply preserve 1 for posterity and demolish the rest? If you want people in the future to be able to view a farmhouse which is 300 years old in present day, why not expect them to travel a bit to see it? Just think about all the buildings we tear down daily just because they are "new" and unused or simply because they are in the way. In 300 years they would have incredible monumental value. Who are we to deny future generations this link to the past?

/Preserving anything and everything just because it is old is bullshiat
 
2012-10-03 06:28:45 PM  

JackieRabbit: Developers are greedy, useless dicks. Whadyano? Around here, they'd throw up six McMansions in the same space the house occupied and they'd have the project completed in three months. Then they'd give it some absurd name like "Windermere Chase" and price them "from the high $600s".


Who's worse, the developer or the people who buy them?
 
2012-10-03 06:32:39 PM  

SpectroBoy: I'm saving my pennies for this one:

[www.paconserve.org image 580x505]


/unfortunately it's built like shiat


Speaking of shiat. Isn't it true that FLW built toilets that require people to squat, thinking that it is healthier -- keeping the bowels in line?
 
2012-10-03 06:34:53 PM  

Boxcutta: There's one of these stories every year. Apparently his homes, while architecturally significant, were built out of spit and toothpicks. They require colossal amounts of maintenance every year and most will continue to deteriorate no matter what is done to preserve them. I mean, look at this thing...it's built out of exposed cinder block.


This. FLW routinely fired engineers that tried to modify his designs so they wouldn't rot, fall apart, or in the case of Falling Bedroom, have part of the house break off and fall into the water. I've only been in two of his houses and both had nice areas and areas that were cramped, oddly shaped, had low ceilings or were otherwise unlivable. He was an architect with too much Art and not enough Tech.
 
2012-10-03 06:50:38 PM  
Most of Wrights houses were stupid! They leaked when it rained, and were not easy to maintain. Wright was wrong!
 
2012-10-03 06:58:36 PM  
Ugly house. Very cool carpet. Want.
 
2012-10-03 06:59:12 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: brap:
 
Did monkey-face Jesus painting restoration teach us NOTHING?

 
It did. Restoration has begun.
 
[i50.tinypic.com image 800x600]
 
 
 
LOVE IT!  A couple class it up Phoenix-style editions...
i253.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-03 07:04:29 PM  
So, all I know is the name. I've heard of this "Frank Lloyd Wright" before. So do all his designs look like shiat like this?
 
2012-10-03 07:11:08 PM  

ggecko: BFD. Ugly house. If you own the property, do what you want. No one even knew about this thing but now it must be "saved"???


jigger: Judging by the slide show, the thing is hideous. Almost an eyesore.


Philistines.
 
2012-10-03 07:12:55 PM  

trippdogg: [graphics8.nytimes.com image 600x350]

Looks more like Frank Lloyd Wrong (right?)


It looks like a Flintstones house.
 
2012-10-03 07:20:51 PM  
if i own it i do what i want with it

FLW was an idiot flat roofs leak boy
 
2012-10-03 07:22:46 PM  

BuckTurgidson: They're lucky it hasn't fallen down on its own. FLW: beautiful architecture, faith-based engineering.


A big part of this is that Wright was always pushing the limits of the materials he used. To him the design outweighed the practicality. This is best exemplified in the Johnston Wax Building, that features glass tubing in the ceilings to let in natural light. It was (and still is) a beautiful effect, however they are prone to leaking. Likewise Falling Water has issues with the cantilevered balconies and HVAC due to the stream running through the house.

I'd be more critical of Wright if the flaws were the result of poor materials or he was designing a rectangular strip mall, but since he was always pushing the envelope I'll give him a pass.
 
2012-10-03 07:24:36 PM  
There are three duplexes designed by FLW on the south side of Milwaukee. They are all right next to each other, and are the only duplexes he designed.
One of them has been covered in aluminum siding.

o_0
 
2012-10-03 07:34:22 PM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: flat roofs leak boy


That's a myth. When built correctly and maintained a flat roof should last a minimum of 30 years and never leak, and I've seen many last over 50 with no problems (I even know one that lasted 95 years). Repairs are also easier in most situations (providing you don't use a non-adhered material like EPDM). They also give you the option of a green roof, and rooftop patios.

Shingle roofs don't last as long, are more difficult to maintain and are more prone to premature failure. Initial cost is cheaper, but not in the long run.
 
2012-10-03 07:56:42 PM  

Fark Rye For Many Whores: So, all I know is the name. I've heard of this "Frank Lloyd Wright" before. So do all his designs look like shiat like this?


Pretty much. But sometimes he goes out of his way and not only designs a gaudy house, but ruins a gorgeous waterfall in the process.
 
2012-10-03 08:10:57 PM  
A few different points:

1. They seem like every other 'preservation' society: They want the house and control of the house but want someone else to pay for it all. Fark you. If you want it then YOU put up the cash or STFU & GTFO.

2. Why not split the difference here? Buy just the house and have it moved. It's been done to bridges and castles so should also work for a FLW house.

3. Wasn't there a Fark story about a year or so ago about a FLW house that needed about a million in repairs because the overhanging balcony (or whatever part it was) was in danger of crumbling and not being so overhanging anymore?

4. FLW buildings are like Italian women; pretty amazing when young.... but don't age too well.

5. There is no number five.
 
2012-10-03 08:16:09 PM  
Are those the same people who blew up the Buddhist statues?

creepingsharia.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-03 08:27:03 PM  
This happened out here in Portland. Some douchebag neuvo-riche purchased a piece of property an were going to bulldoze a FLW house to put up some POS mcmansion. Luckily someone stepped in and had the house moved to Oregon Garden. I hope the neuvo-riche douchebags like their mcmansion.
 
2012-10-03 09:05:24 PM  
As an anonymous asshole on the internet, I think I can say with some authority that Frank Lloyd Wright is a talentless hack, and that I could design a better house.

Also, if I want to burn my Monets to keep warm, that's none of your business. World Heritage? P'shaw! This is America, and here we have a thing called property rights!
 
2012-10-03 09:08:28 PM  

IronTom: Are those the same people who blew up the Buddhist statues?


No, they're the people who keep trying to tell you that Republicans are the same as the people who blew up the Bhuddist statues.
 
2012-10-03 09:11:46 PM  
From what I have read, a FLW house was great to look at, but they aren't designed for actual people to live in. One example I vaguely remember reading is the owner complained that the design had a kitchen that was much too small to be useful and FLW though a hissy fit about it being art.

Is there an architecture fark expert that can correct me or provide more details?
 
2012-10-03 09:16:48 PM  
A lot of Falling Water's problems come from the builder's inexperience with the unusual forms involved. The cantilevers are in rough shape because the builders stacked heavy bags of cement out there for convenience, seriously weakening the structure. It was in trouble before the owners ever moved in.

Second, it's tiny--roughly 1400 square feet. It doesn't really need AC; I was there in late July, and with the windows open it was pleasant.

Uphill is another house, for guests and staff, with a standard swimming pool. It's much more pedestrian.
 
2012-10-03 11:11:50 PM  

OgreMagi: From what I have read, a FLW house was great to look at, but they aren't designed for actual people to live in. One example I vaguely remember reading is the owner complained that the design had a kitchen that was much too small to be useful and FLW though a hissy fit about it being art.

Is there an architecture fark expert that can correct me or provide more details?


There are a lot of concerns that people bring up today about what they see as shortcomings in his houses. Kitchens too small, ceilings too low, rooms too small, etc, but you are seeing today is through 21st century eyes. In the early 1900s, there were still a lot of people without indoor plumbing, let alone giant side-by-side fridges, King size beds, 52" plasma TVs, Central Air, and eight-piece bathrooms. A lot of furniture was built-in because most people didnt own more than a few basic pieces of furniture. Ceilings were low because thats less air volume you need to heat in the winter, and the large overhangs are to keep out the harsh summer sun.

The houses are liveable, albeit just so. Hosting dinner parties every sunday might be tough, but for a family to live, there was a sense of comfort and warmth to his homes.

If you really want to see what unlivable looks like, see what the Internationalists were doing at roughly the same time.
 
2012-10-04 12:18:31 AM  

natazha: Boxcutta: There's one of these stories every year. Apparently his homes, while architecturally significant, were built out of spit and toothpicks. They require colossal amounts of maintenance every year and most will continue to deteriorate no matter what is done to preserve them. I mean, look at this thing...it's built out of exposed cinder block.

This. FLW routinely fired engineers that tried to modify his designs so they wouldn't rot, fall apart, or in the case of Falling Bedroom, have part of the house break off and fall into the water. I've only been in two of his houses and both had nice areas and areas that were cramped, oddly shaped, had low ceilings or were otherwise unlivable. He was an architect with too much Art and not enough Tech.


This is an impossibly ignorant statement. Wright singlehandedly developed many of the core technologies used in every aspect on building today, and engineered them as well. Functional engineering was the heart of his design and it's why he is so influential. People don't study him because he made weird looking houses, for god's sake. Open a book.
 
2012-10-04 12:22:09 AM  

Mouser: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: trippdogg: Looks more like Frank Lloyd Wrong (right?)

That's the house !? It looks like something out of a bad 70's sci-fi movie.

I'm thinking Planet of the Apes, myself. They should get some dudes in gorilla costumes to move in there.


You have to remember this thing was designed in 1952. Take a look around at other houses built during that time - they look old in style. The cinder block looks kind of tacky, but the guy designed the houses out of materials that were affordable at the time. A lot of big bridge and freeway construction was going on at the time and concrete was affordable. He built custom homes, but wanted his designs to be affordable to the average guy. May look 70's, but it was 20 years ahead of it's time.

A lot of his homes seem to have a few things in common. They look cool on the outside and seem larger than they are on the inside, The bedroom ceilings are low since all most do is sleep there anyway; easier to heat and the low ceiling provided room above for great rooms or patios that people use when they are awake. The kitchens usually have high ceilings and are narrow, so that food smells travel up and you don't have to move around much to cook a meal. They didn't have central air back then so a lot of the design was to account for this. The living room was where most spend time and he designed with angles and arches and great views. The first time you walk through one of these things they look kind of odd - but there is a reason behind every square foot. There's no reason houses couldn't be built "like" this by the common guy out of materials that are common today. People must be happy with square boxes.

He seemed to build a lot of furniture into the walls. This didn't work well since people like to personalize with furniture. His couches sucked.
 
2012-10-04 12:34:02 AM  

Mija: Ugly house. Very cool carpet. Want.


That's not carpet - it's built into the floor.
 
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