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(The New York Times)   ..and once we bulldoze this Frank Lloyd Wright home, we'll head on over to the Louvre   (nytimes.com) divider line 162
    More: Sad, Frank Lloyd Wright, David Wright, new light, private property rights, Guggenheim Museum, McMansion  
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18004 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2012 at 3:33 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-03 04:07:27 PM

gilatrout: I've been in a number of Wright homes. Each and every one was drop dead amazing to look at. But, they were all not so great to live in.

That said, I'd give my left nut to experience the suffering of living in one.


True that. I don't care for Falling Water just from an overall aesthetic point of view, but I can see how amazing it is. Even the one in TFA is intriguing.

Also, y'know, skill. Unlike my ugly 1979 box of a house.
 
2012-10-03 04:07:37 PM

scanman61: BuckTurgidson: They're lucky it hasn't fallen down on its own. FLW: beautiful architecture, faith-based engineering.

Yup...FLW was one of those architects who wasn't going to let some Goddard engineer tell him how his designs should be constructed.

The only reason Falling Water is still standing is because of the extra rebar the engineers snuck in during construction, which Wright told them his design didn't need.


And *still* it sagged.

It's a beautiful house and his work is terrific, but FLW was a sociopath.

/A terrible urban planner too.
 
2012-10-03 04:08:37 PM
There's a very cool Wright house locally that's for sale.

FARK: Sales Price: $3,750,000
 
2012-10-03 04:08:57 PM
there is an entire school in New Mexico devoted to studying Frank Llyod Wright's designs.

how the hell they managed to miss a house he designed for his son, I don't know.
 
2012-10-03 04:09:06 PM

Boxcutta: There's one of these stories every year. Apparently his homes, while architecturally significant, were built out of spit and toothpicks. They require colossal amounts of maintenance every year and most will continue to deteriorate no matter what is done to preserve them. I mean, look at this thing...it's built out of exposed cinder block.


Yup. They are all pretty as art and completely impractical as actual buildings that people live in. Pretty much all of them are falling apart due to being very poorly engineered and built.
 
2012-10-03 04:10:17 PM
You get use to this living in Houston. No building is safe.
 
2012-10-03 04:10:22 PM

born_yesterday: And the houses are constructed like absolute shiat. A coworker bought a beautiful house, decent plot of land, good neighborhood. The house was about 5 years old when he bought it, and within two years of ownership, there wasn't an appliance that wasn't replaced, they had multiple infestations due to shoddy insulation and sealing, and multiple areas of flooding.

Thank you Ryan homes.


If the doorframes are all too low and the interiors designed without storage spaces, then they are the very model of FLW architecture.
 
2012-10-03 04:10:29 PM

born_yesterday: JackieRabbit: Developers are greedy, useless dicks. Whadyano? Around here, they'd throw up six McMansions in the same space the house occupied and they'd have the project completed in three months. Then they'd give it some absurd name like "Windermere Chase" and price them "from the high $600s".

And the houses are constructed like absolute shiat. A coworker bought a beautiful house, decent plot of land, good neighborhood. The house was about 5 years old when he bought it, and within two years of ownership, there wasn't an appliance that wasn't replaced, they had multiple infestations due to shoddy insulation and sealing, and multiple areas of flooding.

Thank you Ryan homes.


Exactly. They are just thrown together and these days thrown together by illegals who took $80K carpenter jobs "Americans don't want." My former boss bought one of them new. It sat on a whopping .2 acre lot. It was new, but within the first year he found that his house had been invaded by critters, because there was a 6 inch gap in some insulation board that was open to the crawlspace. Within six years, the roof had to be replaced and the foundation had severe cracks in several places. The house had to be piered in several places. Home warranty? Useless. And the developer and builder were long gone.
 
2012-10-03 04:11:09 PM
To those biatching about "developers":

If you didn't design, commission or contract your own home... please STFU.
 
2012-10-03 04:11:15 PM

peewinkle: Johnson and Johnson hired Wright to come to Racine, WI (where their world HQ is/was) and had him design a bunch of buildings, including a planetarium, office buildings and several houses on the north end of town. I knew a girl whose folks had bought one and got to attend a party there; you think the outsides look neat, get inside of one if you ever get a chance.

/yep, that's all about Racine has left
//that and Cocaine


Cool stuff on Google Earth, thx.
 
2012-10-03 04:12:22 PM

peewinkle: Johnson and Johnson hired Wright to come to Racine, WI (where their world HQ is/was)


S.C Johnson and Son's called -- they want their name, and location back.

Johnson & Johnson is not, nor has ever been in Racine...
 
2012-10-03 04:13:33 PM
to be fair the outside of the louvre could use a bulldozing. granted we should take somethings out of the louvre first. this place on the other hand...
 
2012-10-03 04:13:44 PM
I'll just leave this here.
cdn.pjmedia.com
 
2012-10-03 04:14:03 PM

born_yesterday: JackieRabbit: Developers are greedy, useless dicks. Whadyano? Around here, they'd throw up six McMansions in the same space the house occupied and they'd have the project completed in three months. Then they'd give it some absurd name like "Windermere Chase" and price them "from the high $600s".

And the houses are constructed like absolute shiat. A coworker bought a beautiful house, decent plot of land, good neighborhood. The house was about 5 years old when he bought it, and within two years of ownership, there wasn't an appliance that wasn't replaced, they had multiple infestations due to shoddy insulation and sealing, and multiple areas of flooding.

Thank you Ryan homes.


I don't think I'd build a house today without having the Amish on figurative speed dial and the GPS coordinates of old growth forest.
 
2012-10-03 04:14:15 PM

This text is now purple: If the doorframes are all too low and the interiors designed without storage spaces, then they are the very model of FLW architecture.


Hence the "sociopath" label. FLW wanted people to conform to his designs, not the other way around.

Which is, btw, why Kentuck Knob is so different from other Usonian homes -- Mrs. Hagan badgered him into much needed adjustments to the original design. Kitchen's still too small, though.
 
2012-10-03 04:14:51 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: To those biatching about "developers":

If you didn't design, commission or contract your own home... please STFU.


Why do you assume only "developers" have built every house in US history that wasn't commissioned by the current occupant?
 
2012-10-03 04:14:57 PM
When I think about voting for a Business Candidate, this type of crap comes to mind. Fark you and your almighty dollar. As you clutch your chest desperately gasping for your last breath the money you've made in this kind of deal won't do a damn thing for you.
 
2012-10-03 04:15:35 PM

taliesinwi: born_yesterday: JackieRabbit: Developers are greedy, useless dicks. Whadyano? Around here, they'd throw up six McMansions in the same space the house occupied and they'd have the project completed in three months. Then they'd give it some absurd name like "Windermere Chase" and price them "from the high $600s".

And the houses are constructed like absolute shiat. A coworker bought a beautiful house, decent plot of land, good neighborhood. The house was about 5 years old when he bought it, and within two years of ownership, there wasn't an appliance that wasn't replaced, they had multiple infestations due to shoddy insulation and sealing, and multiple areas of flooding.

Thank you Ryan homes.

I don't think I'd build a house today without having the Amish on figurative speed dial and the GPS coordinates of old growth forest.


That's exactly what my folks did. Mom designed it, and it's Amish built. Not sure about the Old Growth Forest wood tho..
 
2012-10-03 04:17:00 PM
Obviously a famous house is worth more than any house he could build on the site so this is to get the word out and hopefully gets a bidding war going.
 
2012-10-03 04:18:01 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This text is now purple: If the doorframes are all too low and the interiors designed without storage spaces, then they are the very model of FLW architecture.

Hence the "sociopath" label. FLW wanted people to conform to his designs, not the other way around.

Which is, btw, why Kentuck Knob is so different from other Usonian homes -- Mrs. Hagan badgered him into much needed adjustments to the original design. Kitchen's still too small, though.


You know who else wanted people to conform to his designs?

i.ytimg.com
 
2012-10-03 04:18:43 PM

Boxcutta: buckler: I_Love_Cheesecake: In retrospect, steps should have been taken long ago, by Wright's heirs and by city officials, to avoid all this.


Damn straight. What a crime it would be to lose this home. It's not the same as the Taleban blowing up the Bamiyan Buddha statutes, but it's just as infuriating and heartbreaking to those who love great art/architecture.

Fark, you had to bring up the Buddhas. I wanted to vomit when I saw that. I still feel a bit sick when hearing about this; it reminds me of living in Orlando, where they're only too happy to demolish historical or significant architecture if it means developers can squeeze in a few more Seven-11's and strip malls. It's abhorrent.

You had me right up until the end.


Well, sure. It's all gone now.
 
2012-10-03 04:19:04 PM
I'm surprised it's still standing
 
2012-10-03 04:21:53 PM

MBooda: I'll just leave this here.
[cdn.pjmedia.com image 400x500]


Oh, no you don't. You pick it back up this instant and take it back to Fox Nation where you found it.
 
2012-10-03 04:22:36 PM

Honest Bender: I just wanted to say that his falling water house is so beautiful inside and out that it causes me physical pain to be unable to own/live in it.


I heard it was real musty inside from the moldy air.
 
2012-10-03 04:24:44 PM
If only there were some sort of economic and social ideal that would allow people to purchase and own and protect buildings that are important to them. Something that would allow them to exchange value for property, thereby making something they desire privately their own. We could call it "private property rights" or something. Think something like that would allow Wright fans to protect this house?
 
2012-10-03 04:24:47 PM

davidphogan: Pray 4 Mojo: To those biatching about "developers":

If you didn't design, commission or contract your own home... please STFU.

Why do you assume only "developers" have built every house in US history that wasn't commissioned by the current occupant?


I don't assume that. Simply playing the percentages... which are staggering.
 
2012-10-03 04:29:34 PM

AFKobel: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Who gives a shiat? It's an old house that some guy who invented flying once lived in. Big whoop

A dude named Orville Wright,
Told his bro lets invent flight,
So Wilbur said "a'ight",
Write it down muthafarkas


Last line doesn't rhyme for shiat.
/don't understand modern poetry.
 
2012-10-03 04:31:44 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: scanman61: BuckTurgidson: They're lucky it hasn't fallen down on its own. FLW: beautiful architecture, faith-based engineering.

Yup...FLW was one of those architects who wasn't going to let some Goddard engineer tell him how his designs should be constructed.

The only reason Falling Water is still standing is because of the extra rebar the engineers snuck in during construction, which Wright told them his design didn't need.

And *still* it sagged.


I seem to recall hearing it sagged _more_ because of the extra weight of the "unnecessary" rebar. So who knows.

 
2012-10-03 04:32:03 PM

OldManDownDRoad: Honest Bender: I just wanted to say that his falling water house is so beautiful inside and out that it causes me physical pain to be unable to own/live in it.

Heh - I know one of the WPC board members for the house. He has two things to say to people who want to live there:

1. No closets
2. Rising damp


Isn't it also falling apart? And doesn't it have ceilings that are only fit for a hobbit?
 
2012-10-03 04:35:02 PM
"Developers, developers, developers, developers."

- Steve Ballmer
 
2012-10-03 04:35:09 PM

loki see loki do: AFKobel: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Who gives a shiat? It's an old house that some guy who invented flying once lived in. Big whoop

A dude named Orville Wright,
Told his bro lets invent flight,
So Wilbur said "a'ight",
Write it down muthafarkas

Last line doesn't rhyme for shiat.
/don't understand modern poetry.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeKkjACNPSc
 
2012-10-03 04:36:38 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: To those biatching about "developers":

If you didn't design, commission or contract your own home... please STFU.


What the hell is that supposed to mean? For example, my uncle not only designed, commissioned, and contracted his own home, he BUILT the entire damn thing--a 1600-foot log cabin--by himself, save for the electrical wiring. I guess he's allowed to biatch about developers even more than you!
 
2012-10-03 04:37:14 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This text is now purple: If the doorframes are all too low and the interiors designed without storage spaces, then they are the very model of FLW architecture.

Hence the "sociopath" label. FLW wanted people to conform to his designs, not the other way around.

Which is, btw, why Kentuck Knob is so different from other Usonian homes -- Mrs. Hagan badgered him into much needed adjustments to the original design. Kitchen's still too small, though.


I forget where I heard this anecdote, but:

After finishing a house, the owners invited FLW over for dinner. When he arrived he presented the owners with a vase that he thought belonged in the house, and the owners graciously accepted it. Several days later they received a bill for the vase.
 
2012-10-03 04:37:32 PM
The world will still chug along without a footnote-tier work by a pop-art tier architect.

And if you don't like it, buy it yourself.
 
2012-10-03 04:37:49 PM

brap:
 
Did monkey-face Jesus painting restoration teach us NOTHING?


It did. Restoration has begun.

i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-03 04:41:11 PM
Finally.
That farking eyesore.
If only they could do the same for "falling water"

Over rated architecture is overrated.
 
2012-10-03 04:41:14 PM

taliesinwi: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: scanman61: BuckTurgidson: They're lucky it hasn't fallen down on its own. FLW: beautiful architecture, faith-based engineering.

Yup...FLW was one of those architects who wasn't going to let some Goddard engineer tell him how his designs should be constructed.

The only reason Falling Water is still standing is because of the extra rebar the engineers snuck in during construction, which Wright told them his design didn't need.

And *still* it sagged.


I seem to recall hearing it sagged _more_ because of the extra weight of the "unnecessary" rebar. So who knows.


It sagged, but didn't collapse. FLW's original design would have failed in spectacular fashion.

Terrific architect; rubbish engineer.
 
2012-10-03 04:41:56 PM
My dad was a big fan of FLW, and designed the house I grew up in with Falling Water in mind. It had a cantilevered wraparound deck, and was really quite striking. Unfortunately, the wood gets old, and after 40 years it sagged so much that I had to design a replacement railing for my mom, who's still there, that didn't cantilever. So now it's a more generic wrought-iron rail, but at least it won't fall down.

/csb
/I hate myself for doing it every time I see it, even though there was no choice
 
2012-10-03 04:44:05 PM
JackieRabbit

Developers are greedy, useless dicks. Whadyano? Around here, they'd throw up six McMansions in the same space the house occupied and they'd have the project completed in three months. Then they'd give it some absurd name like "Windermere Chase" and price them "from the high $600s".

Annnnnnd people buy the POS.
 
2012-10-03 04:48:08 PM

wambu: There's a very cool Wright house locally that's for sale.

FARK: Sales Price: $3,750,000


Dude that's not where I live.
 
2012-10-03 04:49:58 PM

manimal2878: Isn't it also falling apart? And doesn't it have ceilings that are only fit for a hobbit?


It was jokingly called rising mildew, designed as a vacation home for someone who wanted to force people out of their rooms and into nature or the main rooms. Hence the small ceilings and small bedrooms.

It fully achieves it's intended purpose
 
2012-10-03 04:50:03 PM
Kentuck Knob in the fall has the most beautiful view I've ever seen. In South Louisiana we don't get fall colors, what does dye mostly just turns brown. The view of that valley looked like something I'd only seen in textbooks that described fall. Unbelievable. The house was nice, too.

F the developers in their ear. They want to ruin a landmark so they can pocket $400k instead of $200k for doing very little.
 
2012-10-03 04:51:31 PM
I'm touring Taliesin (Spring Grove, not West) this weekend, so I'm getting a kick.
 
2012-10-03 04:51:42 PM

FeFiFoFark: I'm surprised it's still standing


I'm sure the roof leaks. But hey, it's in Arizona.

It's actually a pretty sharp looking design at least from some of the pictures in the article. Reminds me a little of a Predock house I toured in Dallas once. Which makes me wonder if Predock studied this house during his time in the southwest.
 
2012-10-03 04:52:22 PM

The Third Man: Pray 4 Mojo: To those biatching about "developers":

If you didn't design, commission or contract your own home... please STFU.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? For example, my uncle not only designed, commissioned, and contracted his own home, he BUILT the entire damn thing--a 1600-foot log cabin--by himself, save for the electrical wiring. I guess he's allowed to biatch about developers even more than you!


It means that there are lots of Farkers crying about the evil and greedy "developers" while sitting in their apartment, condo, tract home or spec house that was built by a developer.

Developers simply provide a product to a willing market... biatching about them while being an active participant in that market makes one look rather silly.

Case in point... these guys aren't sitting in their bulldozers foaming at the mouth waiting to tear this house down because they're evil... they're serving the market. From what I see on Zillow, this property was priced below the comps in the area... and was sold twice in the last 3 years. Nobody wanted to live in it.

Knock it down, subdivide the lot... build a couple 4000sf custom homes... sell 'em for $1.5-2.5m each. Developer made some money and built two houses that people actually want live in.

What's wrong with that?
 
2012-10-03 04:54:44 PM
Whenever these stories pop up, its never about an owner who wants to say, rebuild another similiar home on the lot, or even extensively remodel what is there. No, its always a developer who wants to take a single family property and carve it into shoe boxes.

There isnt a single developer who has a soul.
 
2012-10-03 04:57:37 PM

Marcintosh: When I think about voting for a Business Candidate, this type of crap comes to mind. Fark you and your almighty dollar. As you clutch your chest desperately gasping for your last breath the money you've made in this kind of deal won't do a damn thing for you.


Does preserving a piece of architecture do something for you while you're clutching your chest and desperately gasping for your last breath?
 
2012-10-03 05:03:10 PM

JackieRabbit: born_yesterday: JackieRabbit:
Exactly. They are just thrown together and these days thrown together by illegals who took $80K carpenter jobs "Americans don't want." My former boss bought one of them new. It sat on a whopping .2 acre lot. It was new, but within the first year he found that his house had been invaded by critters, because there was a 6 inch gap in some insulation board that was open to the crawlspace. Within six years, the roof had to be replaced and the foundation had severe cracks in several places. The house had to be piered in several places. Home warranty? Useless. And the developer and builder were long gone.


I don't know a damn thing about Ryan Homes, so everything that people in this thread are claiming may be true. But as a builder wih 18 years experience, I'm inclinded to let you know that there is a certain portion of people/home buyers are full of shiat.

I don't know what it's like to build in a city that doesn't have inspectable building codes. Not sure if your aware, but there's all of this "new crazy science stuff" involved with new home construction! Most of is stupid... like geotechnical soil analysis, engineered post tension or pier and beam foundations, span charts for specific species of wood, siesmic zone bracing (wind straps etc). I know what your thinking... that's just a bunch of farking witchcraft. I know, I have a hard time making myself belive otherwise on a daily basis! But there maybe a shred of truth to it!

I guess my rant was directed at the point of your story about 'your boss bought one'. What's to say the he wasn't a total farkng slob? Or that the previous owner didn't maintain their home? What if that specific issue was caused by the previous owner? And what does it matter that the house sat on .2 acres???? it was his dumb ass that decided it would be a suitable home to live in! And as far as the "home was infested" bullshiat... he bought a used home. Where was his due dilligence? Did he pay for a 3rd party home inspection? Did he not have a licensed Realtor on either end of the contract?

People often do stupid things. And many of them will look for a scapegoat for their self inflicted problems.
 
2012-10-03 05:04:28 PM

raygundan: Marcintosh: When I think about voting for a Business Candidate, this type of crap comes to mind. Fark you and your almighty dollar. As you clutch your chest desperately gasping for your last breath the money you've made in this kind of deal won't do a damn thing for you.

Does preserving a piece of architecture do something for you while you're clutching your chest and desperately gasping for your last breath?


aside from knowing you contributed to the benefit of your fellow man? That you helped support the pursuit of fine art? That you tried to save a piece of work, not for yourself, but for others int he future to enjoy and appreciate?

Yeah, i'll take that. I think that would help me peacefully enjoy my last moments. At least better than knowing i owned fourteen TVs and six cars would.
 
2012-10-03 05:04:39 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: To those biatching about "developers":

If you didn't design, commission or contract your own home... please STFU.


Do you use the same reasoning for other purchases? Cars? Appliances? University educations?
 
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