orbister: Izicata: In 2006, Hemet, California physician Jerome Mueller was jailed for tax evasion: "Part of a loose-knit group calling themselves 'freemen' and 'patriots,' Mueller is an adherent of 'truth language.' Developed by self-professed genius David Wynn Miller, of Milwaukee, truth language is based on mathematics and purports to be the only correct way of interpreting English.

Have a look at this, and enjoy contact with a different type of consciousness.

Great, now I need a shower. Best of all:

Pass it on; it will be for the wellbeing of your own soul.

This website is under construction!

All their arguments seem to boil down to "you're not the boss of me!" and "no, you're a towel!" It must be scary and confusing to go through life with the intellect of a six year old.

Sergeant Grumbles: What is the reasoning behind that?
Or is that another one of those "secret government account" things?

Pretty much just that. I think he thinks there is a loan taken out against his "war name", which is the all capital letters version typed on his social security card. Allegedly the government has been making money off of making loans against his person... like they own him. Or some such nonsense. He claimed to have "paperwork" that he would show me... but in the 18 years I've known him, he's never shown me any such thing.

BSABSVR: Unbelievable.

No... he actually sleeps with a collection of rocks in his bed under his pillow... and a magnet.

WeenerGord: You don't know that some of that might be true.

All evidence points to the contrary.

silly season: Dibs on Jessica Alba!

I think I'll go with Kirsten Dunst, Alyson Hannigan, and Alison Brie... Yes, all three... no... I won't share... well... I'll share with my wife. She'd be into that.

ScottRiqui: I would think that all the A-list actresses would have a waiting list a mile long. Better to go for some smoking-hot, relatively-unknown "C-lister" - after all, it's not her acting talent you're interested in.

Get the fark out of our fantasies with your realistic shiat. You hear me?!?! Out!

WeenerGord: EVERYBODY PANIC: /no tin foil hats for me. I use aluminum, like all the insiders do.

Tin foil IS aluminum. Did I just blow your mind?i>

Tin foil is tin. Aluminum foil is aluminum. Oh dear God, they've gotten to you too?

/feel so alone and cold inside. you were my only hope.

Noticeably F.A.T.: pxlboy: Noticeably F.A.T.: pxlboy: No one ever accused them of an overabundance of intellect.

I dunno, I have to wonder sometimes just how smart they are. I see some of their ideas and I think that they are completely off the rails, but they made it a hell of a lot farther along than a true moron would. It's not all just random words thrown around, there is a method to their madness.

If not stupidity, then it must be paranoid schizophrenia.

Hell if I know, I'm not a brainologist. I just don't think these people are necessarily low on intelligence. they may be low on complete information and common sense, but that's not the same thing.

Schizophrenia correlates well with high intelligence (as do some other mental illnesses, like depression). Most of the leaders of Sovereign Citizen are literal geniuses, with the IQs and argument skills to prove it, but their extraordinary pattern-matching skills have been twisted by psychosis to weave their delusions into the fabric of reality and extrapolate whole new, ever-shifting legal landscapes out of it. These are the guides you'd want for Calvinball, but aren't much use in real life. I have a sneaking suspicion that John Nash would have been a leading SC if it'd been around then.

The people who go along with it, though, are just idiots looking to put one over on the man by any means possible, too dumb or wishful to note that everyone who tries it goes to jail eventually.

Blues Lounger: Mormons are funny.

Not as funny as some OTHER Christians, but funny.

Say what now?

This guy's not LDS.

NewWorldDan: Dear Sovereign Citizens,

Let me explain how this whole thing works. Your sovereignty exists just like any other government. That is, only as far as you are able to perpetuate it by force. You'll probably note that the traditional government of these parts has the worlds most powerful army and enough police to make any despotic dictator proud. In short, if you want to pull off your little revolution, you're going to need a lot of supporters armed to the teeth and willing to die in a very violent fashion, because you're probably still going to lose. You could always try the non-violent approach and get your members elected to congress, but Gary Johnson has a better chance of winning the presidency than any of you nut jobs.

Really, the best thing you can do is keep your heads down and hope you get called for jury duty where you can acquit anyone of any crime you don't agree with. Isn't that great? Well, it'll probably be a hung jury and the next group will convict, but you've got to keep doing your part.

Wishing you the best of luck,
NewWorldDan

Hey Dan,

That is excellent advice; clear, sober and well expressed.

I have some of these people in my broader circle. Get along fine with them and never argue when they get started. They all are employed, well read and mostly married with kids. They are not 'insane' so much as afraid of the bad things happening in the world. The ones I know are very into individual liberty and resent the intrusiveness of the system.

Not my cup of tea, but I've known worse people than these folks. Just don't want to buy their literature or attend their meetings. That's their thing, and I do my own thing.

BSABSVR: JohnnyC: 6. That rocks and magnets under his pillow will protect him from EMF.

Unbelievable.

What you did there. I see it. Your purple prose just gives you away.

EVERYBODY PANIC: /feel so alone and cold inside. you were my only hope.

Here drink this, quick!

Silverstaff: It's the closest thing to any "secret" legal option/ability, and for a defense attorney to mention it at trial is practically a guaranteed mistrial and contempt, a defendant can't actively invoke it.

Wow. That was an extensive explanation, thank you! I still feel as though it's a secret handshake. You can't say it. You can't even hint at it, but "they" (the courts) can't easily get rid of it (and I'm not sure why... although the SCOTUS thing implies they fear that people would strongly disagree)... Legal works are labyrinthine but this seems over the normal level of such.

The state calls its own violence "law," but that of the individual "crime."

ISO15693: Blues Lounger: Mormons are funny.

Not as funny as some OTHER Christians, but funny.

Say what now?

This guy's not LDS.



I think he did a little too much LDS back in the 60s.

Gothnet: OK, accept that, crazy as it is for a moment.

Then they think that there's a deeper law, an old law that's somehow more valid, and they expect the conspirators, who have control of absolutely everything, to actually respect that?!?

WTF?

Yeah, both these guys and the frivolous-tax-argument people seem to expect a judge somewhere to go "You're right! Now that you've pointed that out, it turns out we DIDN'T have authority to collect taxes or run a government after all! Everybody go home, we're shutting the government down, I guess it was good while it lasted."

Goldbugs have a bit of the same disease - they expect that a gold standard would tie the government's hands somehow, as though it's not just as easy to go off said standard and/or arbitrarily change the conversion rate as it is to print money today.

Gaseous Anomaly: Yeah, both these guys and the frivolous-tax-argument people seem to expect a judge somewhere to go "You're right! Now that you've pointed that out, it turns out we DIDN'T have authority to collect taxes or run a government after all! Everybody go home, we're shutting the government down, I guess it was good while it lasted."

That's not quite accurate from what I know of folks like this. The ones that I have met claim that the judges KNOW that they are correct but that there is a conspiracy to shut them down. They literally think that all judges, cops, and authority figures of almost any sort are in on it. Some of them even think that if they walk into a court room that the judge will respect them for "knowing the real story"...