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(Salt Lake Tribune)   I fought the law (by declaring myself the president of a sovereign nation bound only by English common laws and filing billion-dollar legal claims against the feds), and the law won   (sltrib.com) divider line 115
    More: Amusing, State Of Louisiana, Louisiana Man, Utah, paper terrorism, Utah County, tax fraud, juvenile courts, federal judges  
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11364 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2012 at 4:23 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-03 05:23:11 PM  
There are alot of these guys in Northern Idaho, like our taser friend. I'm not sure, but weren't the Ruby Ridge folks doing this sort of stuff?
 
2012-10-03 05:23:40 PM  

Tax Boy: Corvus: Tax Boy: turbocucumber: :David-Wynn: Miller is still one of the funniest of the lot.

QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR FTW

Oh god this guy.

Many years ago, I represented the United States in a tax case brought by one of his "students" and the complaint was written in that crazy-ass style all in caps with colons everywhere and numbers hand-written over each word that (I guess) meant something "important" to these people.

So I filed a motion to dismiss. It began with "Plaintiff has got to be joking."

HA!

So they wrote something that it looked like Charley Manson would write? Because colons and brackets somehow make you no longer an American citizen.

Hey he's wikipedia-worthy:

Miller lived in Ohio before moving to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and he describes himself as a "Plenipotentiary-Judge", an ambassador, banker, postmaster,[10] King of Hawaii, and a genius.[11][12][13]
On April 6, 1988, Miller invented what he calls the Mathematical Interface for Language or Quantum-Math-Communications and Language[14] or Correct-Language.[15] According to Miller, his language is "for the stopping-claims of the Theft, Cheating, Fraud, Slavery and War."[14] Miller's language uses sentences that begin with prepositional phrases, using the word For, are at least thirteen words long, and have many more nouns than verbs. According to Miller, only nouns have legal authority. The language has an abundance of punctuation. Miller explains:

FOR THE FORMS OF OUR PUNCTUATIONS ARE WITH THE CLAIM OF THE USE: FULL-COLON=POSITION-LODIO-FACTS, HYPHEN=COMPOUND-FACTS =KNOWN, PERIOD=END-THOUGHT, COMMA-PAUSE, AND LOCATION-TILDES WITH THE MEANINGS AND USES OF THE COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE FULL-COLON OF THE POSITION-LODIAL-FACT-PHRASE WITH THE FACT/KNOWN-TERM OF THE POSITIONAL-LODIO-FACT-PHRASE AND WITH THE VOID OF THE NOM-DE-GUERRE = DEAD-PERSON.[14]

According to Miller's teaching, the addition of hyphens and colons to one's name turns one from an ordinary, taxable human into a non-taxab ...


Man, that guy must freak the fark out when he sees motion captions.
 
2012-10-03 05:25:27 PM  
These guys sound pants-on-head retarded.

Weren't people like that usually institutionalized? Sounds like dude needs a straight jacket and some lithium.
 
2012-10-03 05:25:44 PM  
this is the kind of jibber jabber that broke Jared Loughner
 
2012-10-03 05:27:40 PM  
According to Miller, his language is "for the stopping-claims of the Theft, Cheating, Fraud, Slavery and War."

Developed by self-professed genius David Wynn Miller, of Milwaukee, truth language is based on mathematics and purports to be the only correct way of interpreting English.


Really? 'cause that first sentence sounds like something constructed by someone with a minimal grasp of English. 

I wonder if he talks like that in real life. I can see that getting infuriatingly annoying after a while.
 
2012-10-03 05:29:12 PM  

Izicata: In 2006, Hemet, California physician Jerome Mueller was jailed for tax evasion: "Part of a loose-knit group calling themselves 'freemen' and 'patriots,' Mueller is an adherent of 'truth language.' Developed by self-professed genius David Wynn Miller, of Milwaukee, truth language is based on mathematics and purports to be the only correct way of interpreting English.


Have a look at this, and enjoy contact with a different type of consciousness.
 
2012-10-03 05:30:24 PM  

G. Tarrant: My two favorite claims that sovereign citizens make are where they say they can take over a courtroom when the judge leaves by storming the bench and yelling "The captain has abandoned ship!" and therefore have full authority, and that they say that when handed a receipt if you write the correct magic words (cant recall what they are right now) on it at a 45 degree angle then it's automagically paid off by your secret government account that if you didn't use the government would get to use as collateral for a loan or something.

These guys are nuts.



Accepted for Value.


Yeah, they are fecking crazy. The thing that gets me is that they allege there's this huge conspiracy of courts and judges and politicians and police and basically everyone. This MASSIVE cabal has taken over the US (or the UK, we have a few now going by the name 'free man on the land') in every possible way, subverting the law itself and all its officers.

OK, accept that, crazy as it is for a moment.

Then they think that there's a deeper law, an old law that's somehow more valid, and they expect the conspirators, who have control of absolutely everything, to actually respect that?!?

WTF?
 
2012-10-03 05:34:09 PM  

Magorn: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.

This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following? Second, who who ever want to live in a world that lives like that? Where any right they think they have, or any contract they think they've agreed to could be voided simply because the other side crosses their fingers and says "Mxyzptlk" in a room where a flag with a yellow fringe border is hung or some damn thing?


Yeah, but... It's kind of how I feel about jury nullification. I'm not sure how knowledge of a secret magical term will get people something.
 
2012-10-03 05:34:14 PM  

orbister: Izicata: In 2006, Hemet, California physician Jerome Mueller was jailed for tax evasion: "Part of a loose-knit group calling themselves 'freemen' and 'patriots,' Mueller is an adherent of 'truth language.' Developed by self-professed genius David Wynn Miller, of Milwaukee, truth language is based on mathematics and purports to be the only correct way of interpreting English.

Have a look at this, and enjoy contact with a different type of consciousness.


That made my head hurt.
 
2012-10-03 05:34:39 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.


I was thinking Somalia, but Kazakhstan works, too.
 
2012-10-03 05:36:45 PM  

Tax Boy: According to Miller, only nouns have legal authority.


"Detain him"
"Demolish that structure"
"Confiscate those papers"
"Hold you in contempt"

Hmm, looks like lots of verbs with authority to me.
 
2012-10-03 05:37:58 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: So these guys are pretty much like people who play Dungeons and Dragons going into town and demanding as a 24th level Elf Druid with Dragon Pants that all the maidens fair be brought to him for nether inspection?


That would be Epic!
 
2012-10-03 05:38:12 PM  
Also I give you Erwin Badertscher, a man who believes in god, non-standard punctuation, sovereign citizenship and ... yeah, perpetual motion engines.
 
2012-10-03 05:41:13 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.


About what I'd expect from an angry drunk bureaucrat.

/but the guy in TFA is a loon. No winners here.
 
2012-10-03 05:45:14 PM  

Izicata: A major tenet, according to interviews with Miller published on the Internet, is that maritime law is the only worldwide governing authority because the Earth is a vessel in a sea of space.


www.asianpopcorn.com
 
2012-10-03 05:45:33 PM  

Magorn: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.

This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following? Second, who who ever want to live in a world that lives like that? Where any right they think they have, or any contract they think they've agreed to could be voided simply because the other side crosses their fingers and says "Mxyzptlk" in a room where a flag with a yellow fringe border is hung or some damn thing?


Q: Just having fun here, but, at what moment in time do human beings become contractually obligated with any organization? That is the real question regarding all of this. If you can actually answer this, I'd love to hear it. If you say tht it is at birth, how is that a contract? But go on.
 
2012-10-03 05:46:36 PM  

Aidan: Magorn: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.

This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following? Second, who who ever want to live in a world that lives like that? Where any right they think they have, or any contract they think they've agreed to could be voided simply because the other side crosses their fingers and says "Mxyzptlk" in a room where a flag with a yellow fringe border is hung or some damn thing?

Yeah, but... It's kind of how I feel about jury nullification. I'm not sure how knowledge of a secret magical term will get people something.



Jury nullification's a little different - it's not some arcane magical phrase, it's simply the idea that a jury is *always* free to return a verdict of "not guilty", no matter the evidence against the accused. Over the years, it's been used both for good and for ill.
 
2012-10-03 05:47:39 PM  

Millennium: Calling it paper terrorism may be a bit of a stretch, though: I mean, is anyone actually afraid of these guys?


They had a guy, not sure if was a SC, doing paper terrorism in New Orleans. Basically he got pissed off at a couple people and filed many frivolous liens on property owned by those he wanted to get back at. If took the victims literally hundreds of thousands in court and legal fees to fight liens that only cost a few bucks to file. These victims lost property due to this a well.

So yeah, no physical violence, but the victims never knew when they went to sell a property if something crazy would show up and halt a sale. Or if the sheriff would show up with a foreclosure notice to pay off the lien in a Sheriff's auction.

It was all done with the intent to harass and intimidate. Sort of like terrorism, but via paper.
 
2012-10-03 05:57:32 PM  

Dog Welder: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.

I was thinking Somalia, but Kazakhstan works, too.


Think: more landlocked. Somalia's also pretty cliched.
 
2012-10-03 05:58:39 PM  

Gothnet: Also I give you Erwin Badertscher, a man who believes in god, non-standard punctuation, sovereign citizenship and ... yeah, perpetual motion engines.


Hey, go easy on the perpetual motion there buddy. You've just been left out of the loop.

/no tin foil hats for me. I use aluminum, like all the insiders do. 
 
2012-10-03 05:58:52 PM  

Aidan: Yeah, but... It's kind of how I feel about jury nullification. I'm not sure how knowledge of a secret magical term will get people something.


Jury Nullification actually has some serious legal standing.

It has several SCOTUS and US Appellate Court precedents establishing that
1. It exists as a legal right of a jury.
2. A judge failing to notify a jury of this right is not sufficient grounds for an appeal.
3. A juror can be removed if they state before the verdict is rendered that they intend to nullify.
4. If a juror says after-the-fact that they nullified, then the verdict is still legally valid.

In practice, even hinting at it may get you held in contempt, or trying to notify jurors of this right anywhere on the premises of a courthouse or notify specific jurors of this right will get you held in contempt. Judges absolutely HATE jury nullification, because it removes the "law" from the courts, and gives a sort of "Citizen's veto" to a bad law. It removes law from being a professional decision and process and makes it a . . .jury of one's peers.

It's why most jury instructions now explicitly state that a jury is to only consider the law exactly as written and only deliver a verdict based on if the defendant violated the law as written, they explicitly hide jury nullification and don't mention it. While SCOTUS has said this is an error, it doesn't matter because it's considered such a minor error that it can't warrant a retrial based on that alone.

Georgia v. Brailsford 3 U.S. 1 (1794) (SCOTUS holds that Jury Nullification is a valid right of a jury)
Sparf v. United States, 156 U.S. 51 (1895) (SCOTUS holds that judges are not required to let a jury know they can nullify)
U.S. v. Thomas, 116 F.3d 606 (US Court of Appeals for 2nd Circuit ruled that a juror can be removed if they intend to nullify, but only if it is absolutely explicit that this is their intent).
U.S. v. Krzyske, 836 F.2d 1013 (6th Cir.). (US Court of Appeals ruled that it is an error for a judge to explicitly tell a jury that nullification does not exist if they ask about it, but it is not a major enough error to overturn a guilty verdict)

However, it only exists as a criminal defense, Games v. Stiles ex dem Dunn, 39 U.S. 322 (1840) made it clear that if in a Civil case, the jury explicitly and blatantly disregards the law to come to a decision that could only be seen as jury nullification of a bad civil (non-criminal) law, the Judge can override the jury and deliver a different verdict.

It's the closest thing to any "secret" legal option/ability, and for a defense attorney to mention it at trial is practically a guaranteed mistrial and contempt, a defendant can't actively invoke it.
 
2012-10-03 05:59:19 PM  

orbister: Izicata: In 2006, Hemet, California physician Jerome Mueller was jailed for tax evasion: "Part of a loose-knit group calling themselves 'freemen' and 'patriots,' Mueller is an adherent of 'truth language.' Developed by self-professed genius David Wynn Miller, of Milwaukee, truth language is based on mathematics and purports to be the only correct way of interpreting English.

Have a look at this, and enjoy contact with a different type of consciousness.



well that is just a whole bunch of farking crazy right there. wow.
 
2012-10-03 06:00:12 PM  
I remember seeing one of these letters years ago when I first started my current job with the state. Everyone in my department laughed about it. We didn't realize it was an entire movement; we just thought the guy was crazy and sent him some standard No-not-yours form letter in response.
 
2012-10-03 06:02:55 PM  
You're going to see a lot more of this if Obama is reelected. Nut-cases declaring secession. Survivalist training camps, Loons demanding to be paid in "constitutional money". On and on it will go.

I want off this planet.
 
2012-10-03 06:06:10 PM  
Why are these sovereign citizen assholes, who typically deify the founding fathers (the parts they like anyway), always all about english common law? Didnt their heroes fight a war about that?
 
2012-10-03 06:09:20 PM  

wingnut396: Millennium: Calling it paper terrorism may be a bit of a stretch, though: I mean, is anyone actually afraid of these guys?

They had a guy, not sure if was a SC, doing paper terrorism in New Orleans. Basically he got pissed off at a couple people and filed many frivolous liens on property owned by those he wanted to get back at. If took the victims literally hundreds of thousands in court and legal fees to fight liens that only cost a few bucks to file. These victims lost property due to this a well.

So yeah, no physical violence, but the victims never knew when they went to sell a property if something crazy would show up and halt a sale. Or if the sheriff would show up with a foreclosure notice to pay off the lien in a Sheriff's auction.

It was all done with the intent to harass and intimidate. Sort of like terrorism, but via paper.


these fake liens shouldn't be that tough to eradicate. they're a pain in the ass, but I can't imagine 100k in lawyer's fees (unless there was real fraud involved, like forging notarized documents and the like). a lien that is not supported by an underlying obligation doesn't have much teeth.

/ did you know, the most censored book in american prisons is the UCC (uniform commercial code)? prisoners were filing financing statements against the judges, guards, and wardens like crazy, claiming interests in all their stuff for the lulz.
 
2012-10-03 06:09:26 PM  

Fissile: You're going to see a lot more of this if Obama is reelected. Nut-cases declaring secession. Survivalist training camps, Loons demanding to be paid in "constitutional money". On and on it will go.

I want off this planet.


Like the articles I have seen about gun and ammo sales going up again? Yeah, it's going to happen again because pants-wetting right-wingers are being whipped into a frenzy.
 
2012-10-03 06:12:25 PM  

Cyno01: Why are these sovereign citizen assholes, who typically deify the founding fathers (the parts they like anyway), always all about english common law? Didnt their heroes fight a war about that?


The revolution notwithstanding, we actually did adapt a lot of English ideas, customs and laws into our own. See the Magna Carta, English common law, the writings of Locke and Hobbs, and Blackstone's "Commentaries on the Laws of England" as some examples.
 
2012-10-03 06:12:26 PM  
That seems like a lot of trouble to go to in order to not pay taxes. Why doesn't this guy just funnel his income through a complex system of off-shore bank accounts, like the rest of us?
 
2012-10-03 06:13:44 PM  

Fissile: You're going to see a lot more of this if Obama is reelected. Nut-cases declaring secession. Survivalist training camps, Loons demanding to be paid in "constitutional money". On and on it will go.

I want off this planet.


You'll see that if Romney wins too, these chuckefarks aren't exactly big fans of logic, they hate all government be it left or right
 
2012-10-03 06:15:24 PM  
Well if they're big fans of English common law we shoudl introduce them to another English tradition

"You shall be taken from this place, to a place of lawful execution where you shall be hanged by the neck until dead and your body buried in the precincts of the prison where you were last confined and may god have mercy upon your soul."
 
2012-10-03 06:15:25 PM  
I know a guy who is all into that nonsense. He believes a lot of stupid things though... examples:

1. Planes leave "Chem-Trails" in some vast conspiracy for no apparent reason.
2. Hollywood actresses are all sex slaves.
3. That he can pay any bill by writing "Accepted for value" on it.
4. UFO's are not only visiting us, but doing so on a regular basis.
5. Cancer is cured by eating specific diets.
6. That rocks and magnets under his pillow will protect him from EMF.
7. Perpetual motion machines exist and "they" are just keeping the machines secret.

He listens to a lot of "American Freedom Radio",,, his brain is broken. Generally a pretty nice guy... just believes a lot of crazy stuff.
 
2012-10-03 06:17:29 PM  

Disgruntled Dave: You'll see that if Romney wins too, these chuckefarks aren't exactly big fans of logic, they hate all government be it left or right


The serious ones who repunctuate their names and send 30 pieces of silver to the county clerk do. But the "I refuse to use a drivers license and will only accept payment in gold" movements always seem to swell when a Democrat is in office and shrink when a Republican is in office.
 
2012-10-03 06:18:22 PM  

JohnnyC: 6. That rocks and magnets under his pillow will protect him from EMF.


Unbelievable.
 
2012-10-03 06:31:16 PM  

Fissile: You're going to see a lot more of this if Obama is reelected. Nut-cases declaring secession. Survivalist training camps, Loons demanding to be paid in "constitutional money". On and on it will go.

I want off this planet.


No you do not want off this planet. Just finding you on fark tells me that you will find the future quite entertaining, no matter who wins the election. The coming decade will be fun for all.
 
2012-10-03 06:31:16 PM  

EVERYBODY PANIC: /no tin foil hats for me. I use aluminum, like all the insiders do.


Tin foil IS aluminum. Did I just blow your mind?

JohnnyC: 1. Planes leave "Chem-Trails" in some vast conspiracy for no apparent reason.
2. Hollywood actresses are all sex slaves.
3. That he can pay any bill by writing "Accepted for value" on it.
4. UFO's are not only visiting us, but doing so on a regular basis.
5. Cancer is cured by eating specific diets.
6. That rocks and magnets under his pillow will protect him from EMF.
7. Perpetual motion machines exist and "they" are just keeping the machines secret.


You don't know that some of that might be true.
 
2012-10-03 06:42:41 PM  

ScottRiqui: The revolution notwithstanding, we actually did adapt a lot of English ideas, customs and laws into our own. See the Magna Carta, English common law, the writings of Locke and Hobbs, and Blackstone's "Commentaries on the Laws of England" as some examples.


Sure, but they key word there is 'adapted'. These guys seem to think that the old English laws are somehow the laws of the US, instead of just being what the US laws are based on.
 
2012-10-03 06:44:54 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: ScottRiqui: The revolution notwithstanding, we actually did adapt a lot of English ideas, customs and laws into our own. See the Magna Carta, English common law, the writings of Locke and Hobbs, and Blackstone's "Commentaries on the Laws of England" as some examples.

Sure, but they key word there is 'adapted'. These guys seem to think that the old English laws are somehow the laws of the US, instead of just being what the US laws are based on.


No one ever accused them of an overabundance of intellect.
 
2012-10-03 06:49:14 PM  

JohnnyC: I know a guy who is all into that nonsense. He believes a lot of stupid things though... examples:

1. Planes leave "Chem-Trails" in some vast conspiracy for no apparent reason.
2. Hollywood actresses are all sex slaves.
3. That he can pay any bill by writing "Accepted for value" on it.
4. UFO's are not only visiting us, but doing so on a regular basis.
5. Cancer is cured by eating specific diets.
6. That rocks and magnets under his pillow will protect him from EMF.
7. Perpetual motion machines exist and "they" are just keeping the machines secret.

He listens to a lot of "American Freedom Radio",,, his brain is broken. Generally a pretty nice guy... just believes a lot of crazy stuff.


That's... an interesting take on things.

/Dibs on Jessica Alba!
 
2012-10-03 06:50:09 PM  

pxlboy: No one ever accused them of an overabundance of intellect.


I dunno, I have to wonder sometimes just how smart they are. I see some of their ideas and I think that they are completely off the rails, but they made it a hell of a lot farther along than a true moron would. It's not all just random words thrown around, there is a method to their madness.
 
2012-10-03 06:52:50 PM  

silly season: JohnnyC: I know a guy who is all into that nonsense. He believes a lot of stupid things though... examples:

1. Planes leave "Chem-Trails" in some vast conspiracy for no apparent reason.
2. Hollywood actresses are all sex slaves.
3. That he can pay any bill by writing "Accepted for value" on it.
4. UFO's are not only visiting us, but doing so on a regular basis.
5. Cancer is cured by eating specific diets.
6. That rocks and magnets under his pillow will protect him from EMF.
7. Perpetual motion machines exist and "they" are just keeping the machines secret.

He listens to a lot of "American Freedom Radio",,, his brain is broken. Generally a pretty nice guy... just believes a lot of crazy stuff.

That's... an interesting take on things.

/Dibs on Jessica Alba!



I would think that all the A-list actresses would have a waiting list a mile long. Better to go for some smoking-hot, relatively-unknown "C-lister" - after all, it's not her acting talent you're interested in.
 
2012-10-03 07:06:35 PM  

DamnYankees: The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.


1. Take one moron with a "you're not the boss of me" complex.
2. Add an incomplete understand of basic law.
3. Sprinkle in a pinch of self-interest.
4. Let loose on an otherwise stable legal system.

Add to this particular recipe a deep recession caused by unnecessary warfare and financial hijinks, followed by a blah man in the White House, and you get "sovereign citizens" crawling out of the woodwork. These idiots have been around for a long time - I remember having to interact with some of these cranks during Clinton's presidency - and show up whenever they think they can make a buck or get some attention (or if someone else can exploit them for their own purposes.)

They are amusing at times, however.
 
2012-10-03 07:07:04 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: pxlboy: No one ever accused them of an overabundance of intellect.

I dunno, I have to wonder sometimes just how smart they are. I see some of their ideas and I think that they are completely off the rails, but they made it a hell of a lot farther along than a true moron would. It's not all just random words thrown around, there is a method to their madness.


If not stupidity, then it must be paranoid schizophrenia.
 
2012-10-03 07:11:37 PM  

FormlessOne: DamnYankees: The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.

1. Take one moron with a "you're not the boss of me" complex.
2. Add an incomplete understand of basic law.
3. Sprinkle in a pinch of self-interest.
4. Let loose on an otherwise stable legal system.

Add to this particular recipe a deep recession caused by unnecessary warfare and financial hijinks, followed by a blah man in the White House, and you get "sovereign citizens" crawling out of the woodwork. These idiots have been around for a long time - I remember having to interact with some of these cranks during Clinton's presidency - and show up whenever they think they can make a buck or get some attention (or if someone else can exploit them for their own purposes.)

They are amusing at times, however.


There was a law and order that dealt with these fools in the 90s. I think in one of the early seasons with Michael moriarity
 
2012-10-03 07:18:00 PM  
i have a nephew that got into this crap after being unemployed for way too long = too much time on my hands, / too much time on teh internets. holy crap the derp he would spew was just epic. he was also the kind of guy who would start telling you about a movie and wind up confusing three different story lines in one. good grief.
 
2012-10-03 07:20:37 PM  

KrispyKritter: i have a nephew that got into this crap after being unemployed for way too long = too much time on my hands, / too much time on teh internets. holy crap the derp he would spew was just epic. he was also the kind of guy who would start telling you about a movie and wind up confusing three different story lines in one. good grief.


Symptoms of schizophrenia

Schizophrenia affects people in a number of different ways, but some features are present in almost all cases. People with schizophrenia generally experience symptoms of psychosis - broadly speaking, a loss of contact with reality - although many other conditions can also lead to psychosis.

Here are some of the symptoms of psychosis.

- Delusions (holding beliefs that are odd or not true): These often take the form of persecution - believing others are plotting against, or trying to harm, the affected person. There may be delusions of grandeur - thinking oneself as having special powers or importance.
- Hallucinations (false sensations): Usually these take the form of hearing voices which don't exist. Sometimes the affected person may believe they have seen, tasted, smelt or felt things that don't exist.
- Confused thinking, speech and behaviour: Having trouble organising thoughts and speaking can result in speech which is difficult to follow, suddenly changing the subject for no obvious reason and a generally 'jumbled' way of communicating.
 
2012-10-03 07:30:32 PM  
It's good enough for Henry II; it's good enough for me.
 
2012-10-03 07:38:40 PM  

JohnnyC: 3. That he can pay any bill by writing "Accepted for value" on it.


What is the reasoning behind that?
Or is that another one of those "secret government account" things?
 
2012-10-03 08:10:09 PM  
Dear Sovereign Citizens,

Let me explain how this whole thing works. Your sovereignty exists just like any other government. That is, only as far as you are able to perpetuate it by force. You'll probably note that the traditional government of these parts has the worlds most powerful army and enough police to make any despotic dictator proud. In short, if you want to pull off your little revolution, you're going to need a lot of supporters armed to the teeth and willing to die in a very violent fashion, because you're probably still going to lose. You could always try the non-violent approach and get your members elected to congress, but Gary Johnson has a better chance of winning the presidency than any of you nut jobs.

Really, the best thing you can do is keep your heads down and hope you get called for jury duty where you can acquit anyone of any crime you don't agree with. Isn't that great? Well, it'll probably be a hung jury and the next group will convict, but you've got to keep doing your part.

Wishing you the best of luck,
NewWorldDan
 
2012-10-03 08:13:07 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
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