If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Salt Lake Tribune)   I fought the law (by declaring myself the president of a sovereign nation bound only by English common laws and filing billion-dollar legal claims against the feds), and the law won   (sltrib.com) divider line 115
    More: Amusing, State Of Louisiana, Louisiana Man, Utah, paper terrorism, Utah County, tax fraud, juvenile courts, federal judges  
•       •       •

11365 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2012 at 4:23 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



115 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-10-03 02:02:32 PM  
www.daviscountyutah.gov

Now they're never going to let him host the Golden Globes again.
 
2012-10-03 02:10:11 PM  
Hey, that dude owes me 10 billion dollars.
 
2012-10-03 02:11:10 PM  
This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.
 
2012-10-03 02:36:31 PM  
P Barnes is still not amused.
 
2012-10-03 02:44:59 PM  
The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.
 
2012-10-03 02:53:31 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.


This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following? Second, who who ever want to live in a world that lives like that? Where any right they think they have, or any contract they think they've agreed to could be voided simply because the other side crosses their fingers and says "Mxyzptlk" in a room where a flag with a yellow fringe border is hung or some damn thing?
 
2012-10-03 03:16:45 PM  

ManateeGag: P Barnes is still not amused.


I want to take up a collection and buy P Barnes something nice.
 
2012-10-03 03:44:06 PM  
So these guys are pretty much like people who play Dungeons and Dragons going into town and demanding as a 24th level Elf Druid with Dragon Pants that all the maidens fair be brought to him for nether inspection?
 
2012-10-03 03:44:56 PM  
Looks like Emporer Norton is alive and well.
 
2012-10-03 04:19:31 PM  
Might want to taze him, just to be sure.
 
2012-10-03 04:30:52 PM  
Why don't they make filing fraudulent liens against ANYONE the law, and not just public servants....
 
2012-10-03 04:33:12 PM  

Magorn: This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following?


They buy books and/or read web sites telling them they can do exactly this, and it sounds plausible, so they try it out. They succeed what the article calls "paper terrorism" by tying up the legal system with useless claims, thinking they can outlast the government's lawyers. This is because they don't know anything about lawyers.
 
2012-10-03 04:34:44 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: So these guys are pretty much like people who play Dungeons and Dragons going into town and demanding as a 24th level Elf Druid with Dragon Pants that all the maidens fair be brought to him for nether inspection?


Nah, I'd want fealty of the local lord.
 
2012-10-03 04:35:50 PM  

BooBoo23: Might want to taze him, just to be sure.


www.nytmare.org
 
2012-10-03 04:36:54 PM  
Mormons are funny.

Not as funny as some OTHER Christians, but funny.
 
2012-10-03 04:37:32 PM  

ManateeGag: P Barnes is still not amused.


P Barnes has.... sovereign (citizen) immunity!
 
2012-10-03 04:37:55 PM  

blazemongr: Magorn: This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following?

They buy books and/or read web sites telling them they can do exactly this, and it sounds plausible, so they try it out. They succeed what the article calls "paper terrorism" by tying up the legal system with useless claims, thinking they can outlast the government's lawyers. This is because they don't know anything about lawyers.


BECAUSE I AM SMART AND I HAVE FIGURED IT ALL OUT! LANGUISH IN SLAVERY YOU SHEEPLE!!!
 
2012-10-03 04:38:47 PM  
Ah the Trib posters... they may be idiots but they are Splat's neighbors and co-workers. Sigh.
 
2012-10-03 04:40:31 PM  

DamnYankees: The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.


Which makes the lead paragraph in the newspaper report all the more hilarious:

"A Louisiana man described as the "brains" behind an alleged sovereign citizenship scheme that attempted to saddle state court judges and other authorities with billion-dollar debt claims will remain jailed in Utah until his trial."

I guess you got to call him something. For my money, HIIC (head idiot in charge) would have worked nicely.
 
2012-10-03 04:41:35 PM  
nobody yet?

cartoonsparajovenes.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-03 04:42:20 PM  
He should have stuck with Emperor.

i1127.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-03 04:48:17 PM  
pictat.com
 
2012-10-03 04:48:34 PM  
"Sovereign citizens" being a euphemism for a mentally challenged tax dodging numbskull.
 
2012-10-03 04:50:10 PM  
:David-Wynn: Miller is still one of the funniest of the lot.

QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR FTW
 
2012-10-03 04:50:17 PM  

DamnYankees: The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.


They remind me of the sort of RPG player who's read the rulebook but who clearly doesn't understand it, and yet is so convinced of their correctness that they drag the game to a halt arguing their interpretation.
 
2012-10-03 04:54:16 PM  

blazemongr: Magorn: This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following?

They buy books and/or read web sites telling them they can do exactly this, and it sounds plausible, so they try it out. They succeed what the article calls "paper terrorism" by tying up the legal system with useless claims, thinking they can outlast the government's lawyers. This is because they don't know anything about lawyers.


It's magical thinking, writ large.

Take the same magical thinking that powers pseudoscience, and fundamentalist religion, and apply that to law and government.

Sovereign citizens are to law as "Dr." Jenny McCarthy is to medicine and TimeCube Guy is to Physics.

Of course, the thing is, it's not a new scam. Judges know about it. Prosecutors know about it. Government attorneys know about it. Cops know about it. I know plenty of judges that just LOVE to put the smack-down on "sovereign citizens" for willful ignorance of the law. Some guy pulling this stunt gets a collective facepalm from cops, lawyers and judges of realizing this is going to be long and annoying. . .but nobody is afraid of it because they all know he's going to lose in the long run.

You can't just make up some nonsense about a court being a military court because the US flag has a gold fringe, or that you can just "opt out" of government and taxes by filing some kind of public notice in the newspaper, or that income taxes are inherently illegal because the IRS isn't a lawful part of the government (or is banned under the Constitution, or is secretly an arm of the British Crown, ect.). . .and expect it to work.

I've heard lots of this wackiness, and it's never worked. At most it ties up the courts for a few years and harasses the hell out of innocent people, but every single time, eventually, the legitimate law wins and the "sovereign citizen" loses.
 
2012-10-03 04:54:19 PM  
Mr Show did it too, fun starts at 1:35.
Link
 
2012-10-03 04:55:58 PM  
FTA: A Louisiana man described as the "brains" behind an alleged sovereign citizenship scheme that attempted to saddle state court judges and other authorities with billion-dollar debt claims will remain jailed in Utah until his trial.

Ok that made me LOL.
 
2012-10-03 04:57:35 PM  

Silverstaff: I've heard lots of this wackiness, and it's never worked. At most it ties up the courts for a few years and harasses the hell out of innocent people, but every single time, eventually, the legitimate law wins and the "sovereign citizen" loses.


The only people that have ever succeeded in getting between the tax-man and money owed has been the Scientologists.

/I am still wondering what kind of dirt they dug up to get their exemption
 
2012-10-03 04:59:09 PM  

turbocucumber: :David-Wynn: Miller is still one of the funniest of the lot.

QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR FTW


Oh god this guy.

Many years ago, I represented the United States in a tax case brought by one of his "students" and the complaint was written in that crazy-ass style all in caps with colons everywhere and numbers hand-written over each word that (I guess) meant something "important" to these people.

So I filed a motion to dismiss. It began with "Plaintiff has got to be joking."
 
2012-10-03 04:59:30 PM  

ManateeGag: P Barnes is still not amused.


Came for Idaho taser person reference.
 
2012-10-03 04:59:55 PM  
FTA:"These are anti-government, tightly held beliefs," he said. "It's about hating the government and checking out. It's not delusional or anything like that."

Isn't making a new world view from reality the definition of "delusional"?
 
2012-10-03 05:01:34 PM  

Tax Boy: turbocucumber: :David-Wynn: Miller is still one of the funniest of the lot.

QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR FTW

Oh god this guy.

Many years ago, I represented the United States in a tax case brought by one of his "students" and the complaint was written in that crazy-ass style all in caps with colons everywhere and numbers hand-written over each word that (I guess) meant something "important" to these people.

So I filed a motion to dismiss. It began with "Plaintiff has got to be joking."


HA!

So they wrote something that it looked like Charley Manson would write? Because colons and brackets somehow make you no longer an American citizen.
 
2012-10-03 05:01:59 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: DamnYankees: The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.

They remind me of the sort of RPG player who's read the rulebook but who clearly doesn't understand it, and yet is so convinced of their correctness that they drag the game to a halt arguing their interpretation.


It's worse than that. They are the sort of player that has only read a couple lines about THAC0, glanced at a character sheet from GURPS, and then attempts to play a WhiteWolf game. The scope of their misunderstanding of the law--it's history, content, and application--is breathtaking.
 
2012-10-03 05:02:23 PM  
FTA:

"A cover later [sic] stated that the payment demand was a "mature International Commercial claim" against the individuals and had the "full force and effect from the Common Law Court from the State of Louisiana..."

uhh... Louisiana is a civilian jurisdiction. has been since we had the spanish code, then our own version of the napoleonic code, it's revision, and our current code.

normally, i think these sovereign citizen guys are pretty funny because they take something symbolic or insignificant, assert legal significance, and go buckwild.

but this statement really rubs me the wrong way. it's 100% wrong. there isn't even a kernel of truth around which to dance in your funny pants

/ I can tolerate 99% wrong for the lulz, but I can't tolerate 100% wrong.
 
2012-10-03 05:03:05 PM  

Civil Discourse: Some 'Splainin' To Do: DamnYankees: The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.

They remind me of the sort of RPG player who's read the rulebook but who clearly doesn't understand it, and yet is so convinced of their correctness that they drag the game to a halt arguing their interpretation.

It's worse than that. They are the sort of player that has only read a couple lines about THAC0, glanced at a character sheet from GURPS, and then attempts to play a WhiteWolf game. The scope of their misunderstanding of the law--its history, content, and application--is breathtaking.


FTFM.

/the preview button is for losers
 
2012-10-03 05:08:06 PM  
I'm not really familar with soverign citizens (yellow fringe flag??) but it seems these people are just plain crazy.

Lot's of people don't like the way the world is, but SCs need to keep their escapist fantasies private. They can pretend the courts have no power over them, but when the boot meets the neck, and the bars lock on their cell - that's when they learn harsh reality trumps fuzzy fantasy every time.
 
2012-10-03 05:08:49 PM  

Corvus: Tax Boy: turbocucumber: :David-Wynn: Miller is still one of the funniest of the lot.

QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR FTW

Oh god this guy.

Many years ago, I represented the United States in a tax case brought by one of his "students" and the complaint was written in that crazy-ass style all in caps with colons everywhere and numbers hand-written over each word that (I guess) meant something "important" to these people.

So I filed a motion to dismiss. It began with "Plaintiff has got to be joking."

HA!

So they wrote something that it looked like Charley Manson would write? Because colons and brackets somehow make you no longer an American citizen.


Hey he's wikipedia-worthy:

Miller lived in Ohio before moving to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and he describes himself as a "Plenipotentiary-Judge", an ambassador, banker, postmaster,[10] King of Hawaii, and a genius.[11][12][13]
On April 6, 1988, Miller invented what he calls the Mathematical Interface for Language or Quantum-Math-Communications and Language[14] or Correct-Language.[15] According to Miller, his language is "for the stopping-claims of the Theft, Cheating, Fraud, Slavery and War."[14] Miller's language uses sentences that begin with prepositional phrases, using the word For, are at least thirteen words long, and have many more nouns than verbs. According to Miller, only nouns have legal authority. The language has an abundance of punctuation. Miller explains:

FOR THE FORMS OF OUR PUNCTUATIONS ARE WITH THE CLAIM OF THE USE: FULL-COLON=POSITION-LODIO-FACTS, HYPHEN=COMPOUND-FACTS =KNOWN, PERIOD=END-THOUGHT, COMMA-PAUSE, AND LOCATION-TILDES WITH THE MEANINGS AND USES OF THE COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE FULL-COLON OF THE POSITION-LODIAL-FACT-PHRASE WITH THE FACT/KNOWN-TERM OF THE POSITIONAL-LODIO-FACT-PHRASE AND WITH THE VOID OF THE NOM-DE-GUERRE = DEAD-PERSON.[14]

According to Miller's teaching, the addition of hyphens and colons to one's name turns one from an ordinary, taxable human into a non-taxable "prepositional phrase." They are distinguished from the names listed at birth in all capital letters (as on a birth certificate), which he claims turns one into a taxable Person (Corporation). (e.g., DAVID WYNN MILLER as opposed to :David-Wynn: Miller.)."[16]
 
2012-10-03 05:09:04 PM  

Civil Discourse: FTFM.

/the preview button is for losers


pute kisses like a man: it's revision


it most certainly is
 
2012-10-03 05:11:22 PM  
My two favorite claims that sovereign citizens make are where they say they can take over a courtroom when the judge leaves by storming the bench and yelling "The captain has abandoned ship!" and therefore have full authority, and that they say that when handed a receipt if you write the correct magic words (cant recall what they are right now) on it at a 45 degree angle then it's automagically paid off by your secret government account that if you didn't use the government would get to use as collateral for a loan or something.

These guys are nuts.
 
2012-10-03 05:11:37 PM  
Found Maria... Link
 
2012-10-03 05:11:54 PM  
Calling it paper terrorism may be a bit of a stretch, though: I mean, is anyone actually afraid of these guys?
 
2012-10-03 05:15:35 PM  

Corvus: So they wrote something that it looked like Charley Manson would write? Because colons and brackets somehow make you no longer an American citizen.


I'm personally thinking it's more along the lines of the Time Cube guy.
 
2012-10-03 05:16:04 PM  
In 2006, Hemet, California physician Jerome Mueller was jailed for tax evasion: "Part of a loose-knit group calling themselves 'freemen' and 'patriots,' Mueller is an adherent of 'truth language.' Developed by self-professed genius David Wynn Miller, of Milwaukee, truth language is based on mathematics and purports to be the only correct way of interpreting English. A major tenet, according to interviews with Miller published on the Internet, is that maritime law is the only worldwide governing authority because the Earth is a vessel in a sea of space. The U.S. government, however, contends in everyday English that Mueller owes income taxes back to 1993." 

i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-03 05:18:20 PM  
"notice of international commercial claim in admiralty administrative remedy,"

I know what all those words mean, but that quote makes no sense.
 
2012-10-03 05:18:45 PM  
ts1.mm.bing.net

Mental constipation.
 
2012-10-03 05:18:51 PM  

Millennium: Calling it paper terrorism may be a bit of a stretch, though: I mean, is anyone actually afraid of these guys?


The cops they shot in Louisiana and the feds who work in Idaho probably feel a bit uneasy.
 
2012-10-03 05:20:37 PM  

Magorn: This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following?


My theory is that it comes from playing too much Mao as a child. You can never be sure you know all the rules, or that anyone else you're playing with does either, so eventually you learn to make crap up.

Second, who who ever want to live in a world that lives like that? Where any right they think they have, or any contract they think they've agreed to could be voided simply because the other side crosses their fingers and says "Mxyzptlk" in a room where a flag with a yellow fringe border is hung or some damn thing?

I'm forced to admit that being able to play Calvinball with the law actually does sound kind of fun. I'm not saying it's worth the ramifications, of course, but it might be fun to dream about once in a while.
 
2012-10-03 05:22:14 PM  
Sovereign Citizen nuttery? *click* Indubitably.
 
2012-10-03 05:22:33 PM  

G. Tarrant: they say that when handed a receipt if you write the correct magic words (cant recall what they are right now) on it at a 45 degree angle then it's automagically paid off by your secret government account that if you didn't use the government would get to use as collateral for a loan or something.


"Accepted for value"
 
2012-10-03 05:23:11 PM  
There are alot of these guys in Northern Idaho, like our taser friend. I'm not sure, but weren't the Ruby Ridge folks doing this sort of stuff?
 
2012-10-03 05:23:40 PM  

Tax Boy: Corvus: Tax Boy: turbocucumber: :David-Wynn: Miller is still one of the funniest of the lot.

QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR FTW

Oh god this guy.

Many years ago, I represented the United States in a tax case brought by one of his "students" and the complaint was written in that crazy-ass style all in caps with colons everywhere and numbers hand-written over each word that (I guess) meant something "important" to these people.

So I filed a motion to dismiss. It began with "Plaintiff has got to be joking."

HA!

So they wrote something that it looked like Charley Manson would write? Because colons and brackets somehow make you no longer an American citizen.

Hey he's wikipedia-worthy:

Miller lived in Ohio before moving to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and he describes himself as a "Plenipotentiary-Judge", an ambassador, banker, postmaster,[10] King of Hawaii, and a genius.[11][12][13]
On April 6, 1988, Miller invented what he calls the Mathematical Interface for Language or Quantum-Math-Communications and Language[14] or Correct-Language.[15] According to Miller, his language is "for the stopping-claims of the Theft, Cheating, Fraud, Slavery and War."[14] Miller's language uses sentences that begin with prepositional phrases, using the word For, are at least thirteen words long, and have many more nouns than verbs. According to Miller, only nouns have legal authority. The language has an abundance of punctuation. Miller explains:

FOR THE FORMS OF OUR PUNCTUATIONS ARE WITH THE CLAIM OF THE USE: FULL-COLON=POSITION-LODIO-FACTS, HYPHEN=COMPOUND-FACTS =KNOWN, PERIOD=END-THOUGHT, COMMA-PAUSE, AND LOCATION-TILDES WITH THE MEANINGS AND USES OF THE COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE FULL-COLON OF THE POSITION-LODIAL-FACT-PHRASE WITH THE FACT/KNOWN-TERM OF THE POSITIONAL-LODIO-FACT-PHRASE AND WITH THE VOID OF THE NOM-DE-GUERRE = DEAD-PERSON.[14]

According to Miller's teaching, the addition of hyphens and colons to one's name turns one from an ordinary, taxable human into a non-taxab ...


Man, that guy must freak the fark out when he sees motion captions.
 
2012-10-03 05:25:27 PM  
These guys sound pants-on-head retarded.

Weren't people like that usually institutionalized? Sounds like dude needs a straight jacket and some lithium.
 
2012-10-03 05:25:44 PM  
this is the kind of jibber jabber that broke Jared Loughner
 
2012-10-03 05:27:40 PM  
According to Miller, his language is "for the stopping-claims of the Theft, Cheating, Fraud, Slavery and War."

Developed by self-professed genius David Wynn Miller, of Milwaukee, truth language is based on mathematics and purports to be the only correct way of interpreting English.


Really? 'cause that first sentence sounds like something constructed by someone with a minimal grasp of English. 

I wonder if he talks like that in real life. I can see that getting infuriatingly annoying after a while.
 
2012-10-03 05:29:12 PM  

Izicata: In 2006, Hemet, California physician Jerome Mueller was jailed for tax evasion: "Part of a loose-knit group calling themselves 'freemen' and 'patriots,' Mueller is an adherent of 'truth language.' Developed by self-professed genius David Wynn Miller, of Milwaukee, truth language is based on mathematics and purports to be the only correct way of interpreting English.


Have a look at this, and enjoy contact with a different type of consciousness.
 
2012-10-03 05:30:24 PM  

G. Tarrant: My two favorite claims that sovereign citizens make are where they say they can take over a courtroom when the judge leaves by storming the bench and yelling "The captain has abandoned ship!" and therefore have full authority, and that they say that when handed a receipt if you write the correct magic words (cant recall what they are right now) on it at a 45 degree angle then it's automagically paid off by your secret government account that if you didn't use the government would get to use as collateral for a loan or something.

These guys are nuts.



Accepted for Value.


Yeah, they are fecking crazy. The thing that gets me is that they allege there's this huge conspiracy of courts and judges and politicians and police and basically everyone. This MASSIVE cabal has taken over the US (or the UK, we have a few now going by the name 'free man on the land') in every possible way, subverting the law itself and all its officers.

OK, accept that, crazy as it is for a moment.

Then they think that there's a deeper law, an old law that's somehow more valid, and they expect the conspirators, who have control of absolutely everything, to actually respect that?!?

WTF?
 
2012-10-03 05:34:09 PM  

Magorn: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.

This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following? Second, who who ever want to live in a world that lives like that? Where any right they think they have, or any contract they think they've agreed to could be voided simply because the other side crosses their fingers and says "Mxyzptlk" in a room where a flag with a yellow fringe border is hung or some damn thing?


Yeah, but... It's kind of how I feel about jury nullification. I'm not sure how knowledge of a secret magical term will get people something.
 
2012-10-03 05:34:14 PM  

orbister: Izicata: In 2006, Hemet, California physician Jerome Mueller was jailed for tax evasion: "Part of a loose-knit group calling themselves 'freemen' and 'patriots,' Mueller is an adherent of 'truth language.' Developed by self-professed genius David Wynn Miller, of Milwaukee, truth language is based on mathematics and purports to be the only correct way of interpreting English.

Have a look at this, and enjoy contact with a different type of consciousness.


That made my head hurt.
 
2012-10-03 05:34:39 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.


I was thinking Somalia, but Kazakhstan works, too.
 
2012-10-03 05:36:45 PM  

Tax Boy: According to Miller, only nouns have legal authority.


"Detain him"
"Demolish that structure"
"Confiscate those papers"
"Hold you in contempt"

Hmm, looks like lots of verbs with authority to me.
 
2012-10-03 05:37:58 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: So these guys are pretty much like people who play Dungeons and Dragons going into town and demanding as a 24th level Elf Druid with Dragon Pants that all the maidens fair be brought to him for nether inspection?


That would be Epic!
 
2012-10-03 05:38:12 PM  
Also I give you Erwin Badertscher, a man who believes in god, non-standard punctuation, sovereign citizenship and ... yeah, perpetual motion engines.
 
2012-10-03 05:41:13 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.


About what I'd expect from an angry drunk bureaucrat.

/but the guy in TFA is a loon. No winners here.
 
2012-10-03 05:45:14 PM  

Izicata: A major tenet, according to interviews with Miller published on the Internet, is that maritime law is the only worldwide governing authority because the Earth is a vessel in a sea of space.


www.asianpopcorn.com
 
2012-10-03 05:45:33 PM  

Magorn: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.

This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following? Second, who who ever want to live in a world that lives like that? Where any right they think they have, or any contract they think they've agreed to could be voided simply because the other side crosses their fingers and says "Mxyzptlk" in a room where a flag with a yellow fringe border is hung or some damn thing?


Q: Just having fun here, but, at what moment in time do human beings become contractually obligated with any organization? That is the real question regarding all of this. If you can actually answer this, I'd love to hear it. If you say tht it is at birth, how is that a contract? But go on.
 
2012-10-03 05:46:36 PM  

Aidan: Magorn: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.

This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following? Second, who who ever want to live in a world that lives like that? Where any right they think they have, or any contract they think they've agreed to could be voided simply because the other side crosses their fingers and says "Mxyzptlk" in a room where a flag with a yellow fringe border is hung or some damn thing?

Yeah, but... It's kind of how I feel about jury nullification. I'm not sure how knowledge of a secret magical term will get people something.



Jury nullification's a little different - it's not some arcane magical phrase, it's simply the idea that a jury is *always* free to return a verdict of "not guilty", no matter the evidence against the accused. Over the years, it's been used both for good and for ill.
 
2012-10-03 05:47:39 PM  

Millennium: Calling it paper terrorism may be a bit of a stretch, though: I mean, is anyone actually afraid of these guys?


They had a guy, not sure if was a SC, doing paper terrorism in New Orleans. Basically he got pissed off at a couple people and filed many frivolous liens on property owned by those he wanted to get back at. If took the victims literally hundreds of thousands in court and legal fees to fight liens that only cost a few bucks to file. These victims lost property due to this a well.

So yeah, no physical violence, but the victims never knew when they went to sell a property if something crazy would show up and halt a sale. Or if the sheriff would show up with a foreclosure notice to pay off the lien in a Sheriff's auction.

It was all done with the intent to harass and intimidate. Sort of like terrorism, but via paper.
 
2012-10-03 05:57:32 PM  

Dog Welder: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.

I was thinking Somalia, but Kazakhstan works, too.


Think: more landlocked. Somalia's also pretty cliched.
 
2012-10-03 05:58:39 PM  

Gothnet: Also I give you Erwin Badertscher, a man who believes in god, non-standard punctuation, sovereign citizenship and ... yeah, perpetual motion engines.


Hey, go easy on the perpetual motion there buddy. You've just been left out of the loop.

/no tin foil hats for me. I use aluminum, like all the insiders do. 
 
2012-10-03 05:58:52 PM  

Aidan: Yeah, but... It's kind of how I feel about jury nullification. I'm not sure how knowledge of a secret magical term will get people something.


Jury Nullification actually has some serious legal standing.

It has several SCOTUS and US Appellate Court precedents establishing that
1. It exists as a legal right of a jury.
2. A judge failing to notify a jury of this right is not sufficient grounds for an appeal.
3. A juror can be removed if they state before the verdict is rendered that they intend to nullify.
4. If a juror says after-the-fact that they nullified, then the verdict is still legally valid.

In practice, even hinting at it may get you held in contempt, or trying to notify jurors of this right anywhere on the premises of a courthouse or notify specific jurors of this right will get you held in contempt. Judges absolutely HATE jury nullification, because it removes the "law" from the courts, and gives a sort of "Citizen's veto" to a bad law. It removes law from being a professional decision and process and makes it a . . .jury of one's peers.

It's why most jury instructions now explicitly state that a jury is to only consider the law exactly as written and only deliver a verdict based on if the defendant violated the law as written, they explicitly hide jury nullification and don't mention it. While SCOTUS has said this is an error, it doesn't matter because it's considered such a minor error that it can't warrant a retrial based on that alone.

Georgia v. Brailsford 3 U.S. 1 (1794) (SCOTUS holds that Jury Nullification is a valid right of a jury)
Sparf v. United States, 156 U.S. 51 (1895) (SCOTUS holds that judges are not required to let a jury know they can nullify)
U.S. v. Thomas, 116 F.3d 606 (US Court of Appeals for 2nd Circuit ruled that a juror can be removed if they intend to nullify, but only if it is absolutely explicit that this is their intent).
U.S. v. Krzyske, 836 F.2d 1013 (6th Cir.). (US Court of Appeals ruled that it is an error for a judge to explicitly tell a jury that nullification does not exist if they ask about it, but it is not a major enough error to overturn a guilty verdict)

However, it only exists as a criminal defense, Games v. Stiles ex dem Dunn, 39 U.S. 322 (1840) made it clear that if in a Civil case, the jury explicitly and blatantly disregards the law to come to a decision that could only be seen as jury nullification of a bad civil (non-criminal) law, the Judge can override the jury and deliver a different verdict.

It's the closest thing to any "secret" legal option/ability, and for a defense attorney to mention it at trial is practically a guaranteed mistrial and contempt, a defendant can't actively invoke it.
 
2012-10-03 05:59:19 PM  

orbister: Izicata: In 2006, Hemet, California physician Jerome Mueller was jailed for tax evasion: "Part of a loose-knit group calling themselves 'freemen' and 'patriots,' Mueller is an adherent of 'truth language.' Developed by self-professed genius David Wynn Miller, of Milwaukee, truth language is based on mathematics and purports to be the only correct way of interpreting English.

Have a look at this, and enjoy contact with a different type of consciousness.



well that is just a whole bunch of farking crazy right there. wow.
 
2012-10-03 06:00:12 PM  
I remember seeing one of these letters years ago when I first started my current job with the state. Everyone in my department laughed about it. We didn't realize it was an entire movement; we just thought the guy was crazy and sent him some standard No-not-yours form letter in response.
 
2012-10-03 06:02:55 PM  
You're going to see a lot more of this if Obama is reelected. Nut-cases declaring secession. Survivalist training camps, Loons demanding to be paid in "constitutional money". On and on it will go.

I want off this planet.
 
2012-10-03 06:06:10 PM  
Why are these sovereign citizen assholes, who typically deify the founding fathers (the parts they like anyway), always all about english common law? Didnt their heroes fight a war about that?
 
2012-10-03 06:09:20 PM  

wingnut396: Millennium: Calling it paper terrorism may be a bit of a stretch, though: I mean, is anyone actually afraid of these guys?

They had a guy, not sure if was a SC, doing paper terrorism in New Orleans. Basically he got pissed off at a couple people and filed many frivolous liens on property owned by those he wanted to get back at. If took the victims literally hundreds of thousands in court and legal fees to fight liens that only cost a few bucks to file. These victims lost property due to this a well.

So yeah, no physical violence, but the victims never knew when they went to sell a property if something crazy would show up and halt a sale. Or if the sheriff would show up with a foreclosure notice to pay off the lien in a Sheriff's auction.

It was all done with the intent to harass and intimidate. Sort of like terrorism, but via paper.


these fake liens shouldn't be that tough to eradicate. they're a pain in the ass, but I can't imagine 100k in lawyer's fees (unless there was real fraud involved, like forging notarized documents and the like). a lien that is not supported by an underlying obligation doesn't have much teeth.

/ did you know, the most censored book in american prisons is the UCC (uniform commercial code)? prisoners were filing financing statements against the judges, guards, and wardens like crazy, claiming interests in all their stuff for the lulz.
 
2012-10-03 06:09:26 PM  

Fissile: You're going to see a lot more of this if Obama is reelected. Nut-cases declaring secession. Survivalist training camps, Loons demanding to be paid in "constitutional money". On and on it will go.

I want off this planet.


Like the articles I have seen about gun and ammo sales going up again? Yeah, it's going to happen again because pants-wetting right-wingers are being whipped into a frenzy.
 
2012-10-03 06:12:25 PM  

Cyno01: Why are these sovereign citizen assholes, who typically deify the founding fathers (the parts they like anyway), always all about english common law? Didnt their heroes fight a war about that?


The revolution notwithstanding, we actually did adapt a lot of English ideas, customs and laws into our own. See the Magna Carta, English common law, the writings of Locke and Hobbs, and Blackstone's "Commentaries on the Laws of England" as some examples.
 
2012-10-03 06:12:26 PM  
That seems like a lot of trouble to go to in order to not pay taxes. Why doesn't this guy just funnel his income through a complex system of off-shore bank accounts, like the rest of us?
 
2012-10-03 06:13:44 PM  

Fissile: You're going to see a lot more of this if Obama is reelected. Nut-cases declaring secession. Survivalist training camps, Loons demanding to be paid in "constitutional money". On and on it will go.

I want off this planet.


You'll see that if Romney wins too, these chuckefarks aren't exactly big fans of logic, they hate all government be it left or right
 
2012-10-03 06:15:24 PM  
Well if they're big fans of English common law we shoudl introduce them to another English tradition

"You shall be taken from this place, to a place of lawful execution where you shall be hanged by the neck until dead and your body buried in the precincts of the prison where you were last confined and may god have mercy upon your soul."
 
2012-10-03 06:15:25 PM  
I know a guy who is all into that nonsense. He believes a lot of stupid things though... examples:

1. Planes leave "Chem-Trails" in some vast conspiracy for no apparent reason.
2. Hollywood actresses are all sex slaves.
3. That he can pay any bill by writing "Accepted for value" on it.
4. UFO's are not only visiting us, but doing so on a regular basis.
5. Cancer is cured by eating specific diets.
6. That rocks and magnets under his pillow will protect him from EMF.
7. Perpetual motion machines exist and "they" are just keeping the machines secret.

He listens to a lot of "American Freedom Radio",,, his brain is broken. Generally a pretty nice guy... just believes a lot of crazy stuff.
 
2012-10-03 06:17:29 PM  

Disgruntled Dave: You'll see that if Romney wins too, these chuckefarks aren't exactly big fans of logic, they hate all government be it left or right


The serious ones who repunctuate their names and send 30 pieces of silver to the county clerk do. But the "I refuse to use a drivers license and will only accept payment in gold" movements always seem to swell when a Democrat is in office and shrink when a Republican is in office.
 
2012-10-03 06:18:22 PM  

JohnnyC: 6. That rocks and magnets under his pillow will protect him from EMF.


Unbelievable.
 
2012-10-03 06:31:16 PM  

Fissile: You're going to see a lot more of this if Obama is reelected. Nut-cases declaring secession. Survivalist training camps, Loons demanding to be paid in "constitutional money". On and on it will go.

I want off this planet.


No you do not want off this planet. Just finding you on fark tells me that you will find the future quite entertaining, no matter who wins the election. The coming decade will be fun for all.
 
2012-10-03 06:31:16 PM  

EVERYBODY PANIC: /no tin foil hats for me. I use aluminum, like all the insiders do.


Tin foil IS aluminum. Did I just blow your mind?

JohnnyC: 1. Planes leave "Chem-Trails" in some vast conspiracy for no apparent reason.
2. Hollywood actresses are all sex slaves.
3. That he can pay any bill by writing "Accepted for value" on it.
4. UFO's are not only visiting us, but doing so on a regular basis.
5. Cancer is cured by eating specific diets.
6. That rocks and magnets under his pillow will protect him from EMF.
7. Perpetual motion machines exist and "they" are just keeping the machines secret.


You don't know that some of that might be true.
 
2012-10-03 06:42:41 PM  

ScottRiqui: The revolution notwithstanding, we actually did adapt a lot of English ideas, customs and laws into our own. See the Magna Carta, English common law, the writings of Locke and Hobbs, and Blackstone's "Commentaries on the Laws of England" as some examples.


Sure, but they key word there is 'adapted'. These guys seem to think that the old English laws are somehow the laws of the US, instead of just being what the US laws are based on.
 
2012-10-03 06:44:54 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: ScottRiqui: The revolution notwithstanding, we actually did adapt a lot of English ideas, customs and laws into our own. See the Magna Carta, English common law, the writings of Locke and Hobbs, and Blackstone's "Commentaries on the Laws of England" as some examples.

Sure, but they key word there is 'adapted'. These guys seem to think that the old English laws are somehow the laws of the US, instead of just being what the US laws are based on.


No one ever accused them of an overabundance of intellect.
 
2012-10-03 06:49:14 PM  

JohnnyC: I know a guy who is all into that nonsense. He believes a lot of stupid things though... examples:

1. Planes leave "Chem-Trails" in some vast conspiracy for no apparent reason.
2. Hollywood actresses are all sex slaves.
3. That he can pay any bill by writing "Accepted for value" on it.
4. UFO's are not only visiting us, but doing so on a regular basis.
5. Cancer is cured by eating specific diets.
6. That rocks and magnets under his pillow will protect him from EMF.
7. Perpetual motion machines exist and "they" are just keeping the machines secret.

He listens to a lot of "American Freedom Radio",,, his brain is broken. Generally a pretty nice guy... just believes a lot of crazy stuff.


That's... an interesting take on things.

/Dibs on Jessica Alba!
 
2012-10-03 06:50:09 PM  

pxlboy: No one ever accused them of an overabundance of intellect.


I dunno, I have to wonder sometimes just how smart they are. I see some of their ideas and I think that they are completely off the rails, but they made it a hell of a lot farther along than a true moron would. It's not all just random words thrown around, there is a method to their madness.
 
2012-10-03 06:52:50 PM  

silly season: JohnnyC: I know a guy who is all into that nonsense. He believes a lot of stupid things though... examples:

1. Planes leave "Chem-Trails" in some vast conspiracy for no apparent reason.
2. Hollywood actresses are all sex slaves.
3. That he can pay any bill by writing "Accepted for value" on it.
4. UFO's are not only visiting us, but doing so on a regular basis.
5. Cancer is cured by eating specific diets.
6. That rocks and magnets under his pillow will protect him from EMF.
7. Perpetual motion machines exist and "they" are just keeping the machines secret.

He listens to a lot of "American Freedom Radio",,, his brain is broken. Generally a pretty nice guy... just believes a lot of crazy stuff.

That's... an interesting take on things.

/Dibs on Jessica Alba!



I would think that all the A-list actresses would have a waiting list a mile long. Better to go for some smoking-hot, relatively-unknown "C-lister" - after all, it's not her acting talent you're interested in.
 
2012-10-03 07:06:35 PM  

DamnYankees: The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.


1. Take one moron with a "you're not the boss of me" complex.
2. Add an incomplete understand of basic law.
3. Sprinkle in a pinch of self-interest.
4. Let loose on an otherwise stable legal system.

Add to this particular recipe a deep recession caused by unnecessary warfare and financial hijinks, followed by a blah man in the White House, and you get "sovereign citizens" crawling out of the woodwork. These idiots have been around for a long time - I remember having to interact with some of these cranks during Clinton's presidency - and show up whenever they think they can make a buck or get some attention (or if someone else can exploit them for their own purposes.)

They are amusing at times, however.
 
2012-10-03 07:07:04 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: pxlboy: No one ever accused them of an overabundance of intellect.

I dunno, I have to wonder sometimes just how smart they are. I see some of their ideas and I think that they are completely off the rails, but they made it a hell of a lot farther along than a true moron would. It's not all just random words thrown around, there is a method to their madness.


If not stupidity, then it must be paranoid schizophrenia.
 
2012-10-03 07:11:37 PM  

FormlessOne: DamnYankees: The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.

1. Take one moron with a "you're not the boss of me" complex.
2. Add an incomplete understand of basic law.
3. Sprinkle in a pinch of self-interest.
4. Let loose on an otherwise stable legal system.

Add to this particular recipe a deep recession caused by unnecessary warfare and financial hijinks, followed by a blah man in the White House, and you get "sovereign citizens" crawling out of the woodwork. These idiots have been around for a long time - I remember having to interact with some of these cranks during Clinton's presidency - and show up whenever they think they can make a buck or get some attention (or if someone else can exploit them for their own purposes.)

They are amusing at times, however.


There was a law and order that dealt with these fools in the 90s. I think in one of the early seasons with Michael moriarity
 
2012-10-03 07:18:00 PM  
i have a nephew that got into this crap after being unemployed for way too long = too much time on my hands, / too much time on teh internets. holy crap the derp he would spew was just epic. he was also the kind of guy who would start telling you about a movie and wind up confusing three different story lines in one. good grief.
 
2012-10-03 07:20:37 PM  

KrispyKritter: i have a nephew that got into this crap after being unemployed for way too long = too much time on my hands, / too much time on teh internets. holy crap the derp he would spew was just epic. he was also the kind of guy who would start telling you about a movie and wind up confusing three different story lines in one. good grief.


Symptoms of schizophrenia

Schizophrenia affects people in a number of different ways, but some features are present in almost all cases. People with schizophrenia generally experience symptoms of psychosis - broadly speaking, a loss of contact with reality - although many other conditions can also lead to psychosis.

Here are some of the symptoms of psychosis.

- Delusions (holding beliefs that are odd or not true): These often take the form of persecution - believing others are plotting against, or trying to harm, the affected person. There may be delusions of grandeur - thinking oneself as having special powers or importance.
- Hallucinations (false sensations): Usually these take the form of hearing voices which don't exist. Sometimes the affected person may believe they have seen, tasted, smelt or felt things that don't exist.
- Confused thinking, speech and behaviour: Having trouble organising thoughts and speaking can result in speech which is difficult to follow, suddenly changing the subject for no obvious reason and a generally 'jumbled' way of communicating.
 
2012-10-03 07:30:32 PM  
It's good enough for Henry II; it's good enough for me.
 
2012-10-03 07:38:40 PM  

JohnnyC: 3. That he can pay any bill by writing "Accepted for value" on it.


What is the reasoning behind that?
Or is that another one of those "secret government account" things?
 
2012-10-03 08:10:09 PM  
Dear Sovereign Citizens,

Let me explain how this whole thing works. Your sovereignty exists just like any other government. That is, only as far as you are able to perpetuate it by force. You'll probably note that the traditional government of these parts has the worlds most powerful army and enough police to make any despotic dictator proud. In short, if you want to pull off your little revolution, you're going to need a lot of supporters armed to the teeth and willing to die in a very violent fashion, because you're probably still going to lose. You could always try the non-violent approach and get your members elected to congress, but Gary Johnson has a better chance of winning the presidency than any of you nut jobs.

Really, the best thing you can do is keep your heads down and hope you get called for jury duty where you can acquit anyone of any crime you don't agree with. Isn't that great? Well, it'll probably be a hung jury and the next group will convict, but you've got to keep doing your part.

Wishing you the best of luck,
NewWorldDan
 
2012-10-03 08:13:07 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-10-03 08:14:52 PM  

orbister: Izicata: In 2006, Hemet, California physician Jerome Mueller was jailed for tax evasion: "Part of a loose-knit group calling themselves 'freemen' and 'patriots,' Mueller is an adherent of 'truth language.' Developed by self-professed genius David Wynn Miller, of Milwaukee, truth language is based on mathematics and purports to be the only correct way of interpreting English.

Have a look at this, and enjoy contact with a different type of consciousness.


Great, now I need a shower. Best of all:

Pass it on; it will be for the wellbeing of your own soul.

This website is under construction!
 
2012-10-03 08:25:24 PM  
All their arguments seem to boil down to "you're not the boss of me!" and "no, you're a towel!" It must be scary and confusing to go through life with the intellect of a six year old.
 
2012-10-03 08:27:41 PM  

pxlboy: Noticeably F.A.T.: pxlboy: No one ever accused them of an overabundance of intellect.

I dunno, I have to wonder sometimes just how smart they are. I see some of their ideas and I think that they are completely off the rails, but they made it a hell of a lot farther along than a true moron would. It's not all just random words thrown around, there is a method to their madness.

If not stupidity, then it must be paranoid schizophrenia.


Hell if I know, I'm not a brainologist. I just don't think these people are necessarily low on intelligence. they may be low on complete information and common sense, but that's not the same thing.
 
2012-10-03 08:29:11 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: What is the reasoning behind that?
Or is that another one of those "secret government account" things?


Pretty much just that. I think he thinks there is a loan taken out against his "war name", which is the all capital letters version typed on his social security card. Allegedly the government has been making money off of making loans against his person... like they own him. Or some such nonsense. He claimed to have "paperwork" that he would show me... but in the 18 years I've known him, he's never shown me any such thing.

BSABSVR: Unbelievable.


No... he actually sleeps with a collection of rocks in his bed under his pillow... and a magnet.

WeenerGord: You don't know that some of that might be true.


All evidence points to the contrary.

silly season: Dibs on Jessica Alba!


I think I'll go with Kirsten Dunst, Alyson Hannigan, and Alison Brie... Yes, all three... no... I won't share... well... I'll share with my wife. She'd be into that.

ScottRiqui: I would think that all the A-list actresses would have a waiting list a mile long. Better to go for some smoking-hot, relatively-unknown "C-lister" - after all, it's not her acting talent you're interested in.


Get the fark out of our fantasies with your realistic shiat. You hear me?!?! Out!
 
2012-10-03 08:56:01 PM  

WeenerGord: EVERYBODY PANIC: /no tin foil hats for me. I use aluminum, like all the insiders do.

Tin foil IS aluminum. Did I just blow your mind?i>

Tin foil is tin. Aluminum foil is aluminum. Oh dear God, they've gotten to you too?

/feel so alone and cold inside. you were my only hope.

 
2012-10-03 09:02:01 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: pxlboy: Noticeably F.A.T.: pxlboy: No one ever accused them of an overabundance of intellect.

I dunno, I have to wonder sometimes just how smart they are. I see some of their ideas and I think that they are completely off the rails, but they made it a hell of a lot farther along than a true moron would. It's not all just random words thrown around, there is a method to their madness.

If not stupidity, then it must be paranoid schizophrenia.

Hell if I know, I'm not a brainologist. I just don't think these people are necessarily low on intelligence. they may be low on complete information and common sense, but that's not the same thing.


Schizophrenia correlates well with high intelligence (as do some other mental illnesses, like depression). Most of the leaders of Sovereign Citizen are literal geniuses, with the IQs and argument skills to prove it, but their extraordinary pattern-matching skills have been twisted by psychosis to weave their delusions into the fabric of reality and extrapolate whole new, ever-shifting legal landscapes out of it. These are the guides you'd want for Calvinball, but aren't much use in real life. I have a sneaking suspicion that John Nash would have been a leading SC if it'd been around then.

The people who go along with it, though, are just idiots looking to put one over on the man by any means possible, too dumb or wishful to note that everyone who tries it goes to jail eventually.
 
2012-10-03 09:08:45 PM  

Blues Lounger: Mormons are funny.

Not as funny as some OTHER Christians, but funny.


Say what now?

This guy's not LDS.
 
2012-10-03 09:14:41 PM  

NewWorldDan: Dear Sovereign Citizens,

Let me explain how this whole thing works. Your sovereignty exists just like any other government. That is, only as far as you are able to perpetuate it by force. You'll probably note that the traditional government of these parts has the worlds most powerful army and enough police to make any despotic dictator proud. In short, if you want to pull off your little revolution, you're going to need a lot of supporters armed to the teeth and willing to die in a very violent fashion, because you're probably still going to lose. You could always try the non-violent approach and get your members elected to congress, but Gary Johnson has a better chance of winning the presidency than any of you nut jobs.

Really, the best thing you can do is keep your heads down and hope you get called for jury duty where you can acquit anyone of any crime you don't agree with. Isn't that great? Well, it'll probably be a hung jury and the next group will convict, but you've got to keep doing your part.

Wishing you the best of luck,
NewWorldDan


Hey Dan,

That is excellent advice; clear, sober and well expressed.
imageshack.us
I have some of these people in my broader circle. Get along fine with them and never argue when they get started. They all are employed, well read and mostly married with kids. They are not 'insane' so much as afraid of the bad things happening in the world. The ones I know are very into individual liberty and resent the intrusiveness of the system.

Not my cup of tea, but I've known worse people than these folks. Just don't want to buy their literature or attend their meetings. That's their thing, and I do my own thing.
 
2012-10-03 09:15:37 PM  

BSABSVR: JohnnyC: 6. That rocks and magnets under his pillow will protect him from EMF.

Unbelievable.


What you did there. I see it. Your purple prose just gives you away.
 
2012-10-03 09:53:00 PM  

EVERYBODY PANIC: /feel so alone and cold inside. you were my only hope.


Here drink this, quick!

www.yale.edu
 
2012-10-03 10:12:48 PM  

Silverstaff: It's the closest thing to any "secret" legal option/ability, and for a defense attorney to mention it at trial is practically a guaranteed mistrial and contempt, a defendant can't actively invoke it.


Wow. That was an extensive explanation, thank you! I still feel as though it's a secret handshake. You can't say it. You can't even hint at it, but "they" (the courts) can't easily get rid of it (and I'm not sure why... although the SCOTUS thing implies they fear that people would strongly disagree)... Legal works are labyrinthine but this seems over the normal level of such.
 
2012-10-04 12:29:15 AM  
The state calls its own violence "law," but that of the individual "crime."
 
2012-10-04 06:56:39 AM  

ISO15693: Blues Lounger: Mormons are funny.

Not as funny as some OTHER Christians, but funny.

Say what now?

This guy's not LDS.


1.bp.blogspot.com

I think he did a little too much LDS back in the 60s.
 
2012-10-04 11:25:11 AM  

Gothnet: OK, accept that, crazy as it is for a moment.

Then they think that there's a deeper law, an old law that's somehow more valid, and they expect the conspirators, who have control of absolutely everything, to actually respect that?!?

WTF?


Yeah, both these guys and the frivolous-tax-argument people seem to expect a judge somewhere to go "You're right! Now that you've pointed that out, it turns out we DIDN'T have authority to collect taxes or run a government after all! Everybody go home, we're shutting the government down, I guess it was good while it lasted."

Goldbugs have a bit of the same disease - they expect that a gold standard would tie the government's hands somehow, as though it's not just as easy to go off said standard and/or arbitrarily change the conversion rate as it is to print money today.
 
2012-10-04 06:27:23 PM  

Gaseous Anomaly: Yeah, both these guys and the frivolous-tax-argument people seem to expect a judge somewhere to go "You're right! Now that you've pointed that out, it turns out we DIDN'T have authority to collect taxes or run a government after all! Everybody go home, we're shutting the government down, I guess it was good while it lasted."


That's not quite accurate from what I know of folks like this. The ones that I have met claim that the judges KNOW that they are correct but that there is a conspiracy to shut them down. They literally think that all judges, cops, and authority figures of almost any sort are in on it. Some of them even think that if they walk into a court room that the judge will respect them for "knowing the real story"...
 
Displayed 115 of 115 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report