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(Salt Lake Tribune)   I fought the law (by declaring myself the president of a sovereign nation bound only by English common laws and filing billion-dollar legal claims against the feds), and the law won   (sltrib.com) divider line 115
    More: Amusing, State Of Louisiana, Louisiana Man, Utah, paper terrorism, Utah County, tax fraud, juvenile courts, federal judges  
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11352 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2012 at 4:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-03 02:02:32 PM
www.daviscountyutah.gov

Now they're never going to let him host the Golden Globes again.
 
2012-10-03 02:10:11 PM
Hey, that dude owes me 10 billion dollars.
 
2012-10-03 02:11:10 PM
This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.
 
2012-10-03 02:36:31 PM
P Barnes is still not amused.
 
2012-10-03 02:44:59 PM
The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.
 
2012-10-03 02:53:31 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This spring, Cecil sent certified letters to at least four judges and a commissioner demanding judgments be voided and property returned within three days or payment of either $3.2 billion or $804 billion.

So they used the services of a government that they do not recognize to try to sue same government.

Fark it. Drop 'em in Kazakhstan without their passports and see how that "Sovereignty" works out for them.


This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following? Second, who who ever want to live in a world that lives like that? Where any right they think they have, or any contract they think they've agreed to could be voided simply because the other side crosses their fingers and says "Mxyzptlk" in a room where a flag with a yellow fringe border is hung or some damn thing?
 
2012-10-03 03:16:45 PM

ManateeGag: P Barnes is still not amused.


I want to take up a collection and buy P Barnes something nice.
 
2012-10-03 03:44:06 PM
So these guys are pretty much like people who play Dungeons and Dragons going into town and demanding as a 24th level Elf Druid with Dragon Pants that all the maidens fair be brought to him for nether inspection?
 
2012-10-03 03:44:56 PM
Looks like Emporer Norton is alive and well.
 
2012-10-03 04:19:31 PM
Might want to taze him, just to be sure.
 
2012-10-03 04:30:52 PM
Why don't they make filing fraudulent liens against ANYONE the law, and not just public servants....
 
2012-10-03 04:33:12 PM

Magorn: This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following?


They buy books and/or read web sites telling them they can do exactly this, and it sounds plausible, so they try it out. They succeed what the article calls "paper terrorism" by tying up the legal system with useless claims, thinking they can outlast the government's lawyers. This is because they don't know anything about lawyers.
 
2012-10-03 04:34:44 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: So these guys are pretty much like people who play Dungeons and Dragons going into town and demanding as a 24th level Elf Druid with Dragon Pants that all the maidens fair be brought to him for nether inspection?


Nah, I'd want fealty of the local lord.
 
2012-10-03 04:35:50 PM

BooBoo23: Might want to taze him, just to be sure.


www.nytmare.org
 
2012-10-03 04:36:54 PM
Mormons are funny.

Not as funny as some OTHER Christians, but funny.
 
2012-10-03 04:37:32 PM

ManateeGag: P Barnes is still not amused.


P Barnes has.... sovereign (citizen) immunity!
 
2012-10-03 04:37:55 PM

blazemongr: Magorn: This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following?

They buy books and/or read web sites telling them they can do exactly this, and it sounds plausible, so they try it out. They succeed what the article calls "paper terrorism" by tying up the legal system with useless claims, thinking they can outlast the government's lawyers. This is because they don't know anything about lawyers.


BECAUSE I AM SMART AND I HAVE FIGURED IT ALL OUT! LANGUISH IN SLAVERY YOU SHEEPLE!!!
 
2012-10-03 04:38:47 PM
Ah the Trib posters... they may be idiots but they are Splat's neighbors and co-workers. Sigh.
 
2012-10-03 04:40:31 PM

DamnYankees: The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.


Which makes the lead paragraph in the newspaper report all the more hilarious:

"A Louisiana man described as the "brains" behind an alleged sovereign citizenship scheme that attempted to saddle state court judges and other authorities with billion-dollar debt claims will remain jailed in Utah until his trial."

I guess you got to call him something. For my money, HIIC (head idiot in charge) would have worked nicely.
 
2012-10-03 04:41:35 PM
nobody yet?

cartoonsparajovenes.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-03 04:42:20 PM
He should have stuck with Emperor.

i1127.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-03 04:48:17 PM
pictat.com
 
2012-10-03 04:48:34 PM
"Sovereign citizens" being a euphemism for a mentally challenged tax dodging numbskull.
 
2012-10-03 04:50:10 PM
:David-Wynn: Miller is still one of the funniest of the lot.

QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR FTW
 
2012-10-03 04:50:17 PM

DamnYankees: The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.


They remind me of the sort of RPG player who's read the rulebook but who clearly doesn't understand it, and yet is so convinced of their correctness that they drag the game to a halt arguing their interpretation.
 
2012-10-03 04:54:16 PM

blazemongr: Magorn: This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following?

They buy books and/or read web sites telling them they can do exactly this, and it sounds plausible, so they try it out. They succeed what the article calls "paper terrorism" by tying up the legal system with useless claims, thinking they can outlast the government's lawyers. This is because they don't know anything about lawyers.


It's magical thinking, writ large.

Take the same magical thinking that powers pseudoscience, and fundamentalist religion, and apply that to law and government.

Sovereign citizens are to law as "Dr." Jenny McCarthy is to medicine and TimeCube Guy is to Physics.

Of course, the thing is, it's not a new scam. Judges know about it. Prosecutors know about it. Government attorneys know about it. Cops know about it. I know plenty of judges that just LOVE to put the smack-down on "sovereign citizens" for willful ignorance of the law. Some guy pulling this stunt gets a collective facepalm from cops, lawyers and judges of realizing this is going to be long and annoying. . .but nobody is afraid of it because they all know he's going to lose in the long run.

You can't just make up some nonsense about a court being a military court because the US flag has a gold fringe, or that you can just "opt out" of government and taxes by filing some kind of public notice in the newspaper, or that income taxes are inherently illegal because the IRS isn't a lawful part of the government (or is banned under the Constitution, or is secretly an arm of the British Crown, ect.). . .and expect it to work.

I've heard lots of this wackiness, and it's never worked. At most it ties up the courts for a few years and harasses the hell out of innocent people, but every single time, eventually, the legitimate law wins and the "sovereign citizen" loses.
 
2012-10-03 04:54:19 PM
Mr Show did it too, fun starts at 1:35.
Link
 
2012-10-03 04:55:58 PM
FTA: A Louisiana man described as the "brains" behind an alleged sovereign citizenship scheme that attempted to saddle state court judges and other authorities with billion-dollar debt claims will remain jailed in Utah until his trial.

Ok that made me LOL.
 
2012-10-03 04:57:35 PM

Silverstaff: I've heard lots of this wackiness, and it's never worked. At most it ties up the courts for a few years and harasses the hell out of innocent people, but every single time, eventually, the legitimate law wins and the "sovereign citizen" loses.


The only people that have ever succeeded in getting between the tax-man and money owed has been the Scientologists.

/I am still wondering what kind of dirt they dug up to get their exemption
 
2012-10-03 04:59:09 PM

turbocucumber: :David-Wynn: Miller is still one of the funniest of the lot.

QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR FTW


Oh god this guy.

Many years ago, I represented the United States in a tax case brought by one of his "students" and the complaint was written in that crazy-ass style all in caps with colons everywhere and numbers hand-written over each word that (I guess) meant something "important" to these people.

So I filed a motion to dismiss. It began with "Plaintiff has got to be joking."
 
2012-10-03 04:59:30 PM

ManateeGag: P Barnes is still not amused.


Came for Idaho taser person reference.
 
2012-10-03 04:59:55 PM
FTA:"These are anti-government, tightly held beliefs," he said. "It's about hating the government and checking out. It's not delusional or anything like that."

Isn't making a new world view from reality the definition of "delusional"?
 
2012-10-03 05:01:34 PM

Tax Boy: turbocucumber: :David-Wynn: Miller is still one of the funniest of the lot.

QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR FTW

Oh god this guy.

Many years ago, I represented the United States in a tax case brought by one of his "students" and the complaint was written in that crazy-ass style all in caps with colons everywhere and numbers hand-written over each word that (I guess) meant something "important" to these people.

So I filed a motion to dismiss. It began with "Plaintiff has got to be joking."


HA!

So they wrote something that it looked like Charley Manson would write? Because colons and brackets somehow make you no longer an American citizen.
 
2012-10-03 05:01:59 PM

Some 'Splainin' To Do: DamnYankees: The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.

They remind me of the sort of RPG player who's read the rulebook but who clearly doesn't understand it, and yet is so convinced of their correctness that they drag the game to a halt arguing their interpretation.


It's worse than that. They are the sort of player that has only read a couple lines about THAC0, glanced at a character sheet from GURPS, and then attempts to play a WhiteWolf game. The scope of their misunderstanding of the law--it's history, content, and application--is breathtaking.
 
2012-10-03 05:02:23 PM
FTA:

"A cover later [sic] stated that the payment demand was a "mature International Commercial claim" against the individuals and had the "full force and effect from the Common Law Court from the State of Louisiana..."

uhh... Louisiana is a civilian jurisdiction. has been since we had the spanish code, then our own version of the napoleonic code, it's revision, and our current code.

normally, i think these sovereign citizen guys are pretty funny because they take something symbolic or insignificant, assert legal significance, and go buckwild.

but this statement really rubs me the wrong way. it's 100% wrong. there isn't even a kernel of truth around which to dance in your funny pants

/ I can tolerate 99% wrong for the lulz, but I can't tolerate 100% wrong.
 
2012-10-03 05:03:05 PM

Civil Discourse: Some 'Splainin' To Do: DamnYankees: The Sovereign Citizen movement is one of the three dumbest things in the history of thought.

They remind me of the sort of RPG player who's read the rulebook but who clearly doesn't understand it, and yet is so convinced of their correctness that they drag the game to a halt arguing their interpretation.

It's worse than that. They are the sort of player that has only read a couple lines about THAC0, glanced at a character sheet from GURPS, and then attempts to play a WhiteWolf game. The scope of their misunderstanding of the law--its history, content, and application--is breathtaking.


FTFM.

/the preview button is for losers
 
2012-10-03 05:08:06 PM
I'm not really familar with soverign citizens (yellow fringe flag??) but it seems these people are just plain crazy.

Lot's of people don't like the way the world is, but SCs need to keep their escapist fantasies private. They can pretend the courts have no power over them, but when the boot meets the neck, and the bars lock on their cell - that's when they learn harsh reality trumps fuzzy fantasy every time.
 
2012-10-03 05:08:49 PM

Corvus: Tax Boy: turbocucumber: :David-Wynn: Miller is still one of the funniest of the lot.

QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR FTW

Oh god this guy.

Many years ago, I represented the United States in a tax case brought by one of his "students" and the complaint was written in that crazy-ass style all in caps with colons everywhere and numbers hand-written over each word that (I guess) meant something "important" to these people.

So I filed a motion to dismiss. It began with "Plaintiff has got to be joking."

HA!

So they wrote something that it looked like Charley Manson would write? Because colons and brackets somehow make you no longer an American citizen.


Hey he's wikipedia-worthy:

Miller lived in Ohio before moving to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and he describes himself as a "Plenipotentiary-Judge", an ambassador, banker, postmaster,[10] King of Hawaii, and a genius.[11][12][13]
On April 6, 1988, Miller invented what he calls the Mathematical Interface for Language or Quantum-Math-Communications and Language[14] or Correct-Language.[15] According to Miller, his language is "for the stopping-claims of the Theft, Cheating, Fraud, Slavery and War."[14] Miller's language uses sentences that begin with prepositional phrases, using the word For, are at least thirteen words long, and have many more nouns than verbs. According to Miller, only nouns have legal authority. The language has an abundance of punctuation. Miller explains:

FOR THE FORMS OF OUR PUNCTUATIONS ARE WITH THE CLAIM OF THE USE: FULL-COLON=POSITION-LODIO-FACTS, HYPHEN=COMPOUND-FACTS =KNOWN, PERIOD=END-THOUGHT, COMMA-PAUSE, AND LOCATION-TILDES WITH THE MEANINGS AND USES OF THE COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE FULL-COLON OF THE POSITION-LODIAL-FACT-PHRASE WITH THE FACT/KNOWN-TERM OF THE POSITIONAL-LODIO-FACT-PHRASE AND WITH THE VOID OF THE NOM-DE-GUERRE = DEAD-PERSON.[14]

According to Miller's teaching, the addition of hyphens and colons to one's name turns one from an ordinary, taxable human into a non-taxable "prepositional phrase." They are distinguished from the names listed at birth in all capital letters (as on a birth certificate), which he claims turns one into a taxable Person (Corporation). (e.g., DAVID WYNN MILLER as opposed to :David-Wynn: Miller.)."[16]
 
2012-10-03 05:09:04 PM

Civil Discourse: FTFM.

/the preview button is for losers


pute kisses like a man: it's revision


it most certainly is
 
2012-10-03 05:11:22 PM
My two favorite claims that sovereign citizens make are where they say they can take over a courtroom when the judge leaves by storming the bench and yelling "The captain has abandoned ship!" and therefore have full authority, and that they say that when handed a receipt if you write the correct magic words (cant recall what they are right now) on it at a 45 degree angle then it's automagically paid off by your secret government account that if you didn't use the government would get to use as collateral for a loan or something.

These guys are nuts.
 
2012-10-03 05:11:37 PM
Found Maria... Link
 
2012-10-03 05:11:54 PM
Calling it paper terrorism may be a bit of a stretch, though: I mean, is anyone actually afraid of these guys?
 
2012-10-03 05:15:35 PM

Corvus: So they wrote something that it looked like Charley Manson would write? Because colons and brackets somehow make you no longer an American citizen.


I'm personally thinking it's more along the lines of the Time Cube guy.
 
2012-10-03 05:16:04 PM
In 2006, Hemet, California physician Jerome Mueller was jailed for tax evasion: "Part of a loose-knit group calling themselves 'freemen' and 'patriots,' Mueller is an adherent of 'truth language.' Developed by self-professed genius David Wynn Miller, of Milwaukee, truth language is based on mathematics and purports to be the only correct way of interpreting English. A major tenet, according to interviews with Miller published on the Internet, is that maritime law is the only worldwide governing authority because the Earth is a vessel in a sea of space. The U.S. government, however, contends in everyday English that Mueller owes income taxes back to 1993." 

i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-03 05:18:20 PM
"notice of international commercial claim in admiralty administrative remedy,"

I know what all those words mean, but that quote makes no sense.
 
2012-10-03 05:18:45 PM
ts1.mm.bing.net

Mental constipation.
 
2012-10-03 05:18:51 PM

Millennium: Calling it paper terrorism may be a bit of a stretch, though: I mean, is anyone actually afraid of these guys?


The cops they shot in Louisiana and the feds who work in Idaho probably feel a bit uneasy.
 
2012-10-03 05:20:37 PM

Magorn: This is what I never understood about these "sovereign citizen" nutballs (and their African-American counterparts the "Moorish Constitution" wierdos) First how can they possibly believe that the law works like this? That if they simply say some magic words they can not be bound by the rules all the other suckers in the world are following?


My theory is that it comes from playing too much Mao as a child. You can never be sure you know all the rules, or that anyone else you're playing with does either, so eventually you learn to make crap up.

Second, who who ever want to live in a world that lives like that? Where any right they think they have, or any contract they think they've agreed to could be voided simply because the other side crosses their fingers and says "Mxyzptlk" in a room where a flag with a yellow fringe border is hung or some damn thing?

I'm forced to admit that being able to play Calvinball with the law actually does sound kind of fun. I'm not saying it's worth the ramifications, of course, but it might be fun to dream about once in a while.
 
2012-10-03 05:22:14 PM
Sovereign Citizen nuttery? *click* Indubitably.
 
2012-10-03 05:22:33 PM

G. Tarrant: they say that when handed a receipt if you write the correct magic words (cant recall what they are right now) on it at a 45 degree angle then it's automagically paid off by your secret government account that if you didn't use the government would get to use as collateral for a loan or something.


"Accepted for value"
 
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