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(CBS Detroit)   If Derek Jeter won the Triple Crown this year with Miguel Cabrera's stat line, Mike Trout wouldn't even be in the MVP discussion   (detroit.cbslocal.com) divider line 321
    More: Obvious, triple crown, Miguel Cabrera, Derek Jeter, MVP, al mvp, Jayson Stark, Ken Rosenthal, Detroit Tigers  
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1071 clicks; posted to Sports » on 03 Oct 2012 at 2:03 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



321 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-10-03 02:36:08 PM  

FreakinB: meanmutton: FreakinB: but I don't buy into the notion that games in June count for any less than games in September. Mainly because they don't.

You're misunderstanding. The games don't matter more but the performance does.

In high stress situations (late in games, late in the season, 2 outs with RISP), Cabrera plays better. In high stress situations, Trout plays worse.

Great. I hate to sound like a dick, but here it goes: I honestly don't care. Stress or no stress, it's all production.


You certainly don't sound like a dick. You do speak in words whose meanings mystify me, though. Either way, they're both amazing players.
 
2012-10-03 02:36:49 PM  

SlothB77: DeWayne Mann: If I wasn't boycotting the thread, I'd explicitly point out the 1934 AL MVP voting.

for someone boycotting this thread, you are doing quite a bad job of it.


My Boycotting Above Replacement is quite low, I'll admit.
 
2012-10-03 02:38:18 PM  

JohnnyCanuck: For the love of FSM, can someone please post the definition of "boycott".

Or maybe come up with an equation that the dwellers can understand.

The only reason there is so much discussion on this topic is because it is so clear cut in Miggy's favour that the media needs to create a story. One day left in the season and barely anything has been decided. That's the real story.


Yes! It's crazy how many scenarios there are with only one game left.
 
2012-10-03 02:38:40 PM  
Angels play 6:40 EST

Tigers play 8:10 EST
 
2012-10-03 02:41:14 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Moopy Mac: he's one of the best (if not THE best) defensive shortstops in the history of the sport.

....

....

.....

....


wat

 

And so it begins...
 
2012-10-03 02:41:35 PM  
Josh Hamilton plays at 3:35 EST.

Hamilton will have completed all his at-bats before first pitch in Detroit. Trout will have at least two at bats completed before first pitch in Detroit.
 
2012-10-03 02:41:39 PM  

SlothB77: Angels play 6:40 EST

Tigers play 8:10 EST


And Rangers at 3:35. Hamilton has a chance to tie or win the HR title. I'm guessing Miggy will sit if Josh doesn't hit a home run. The RBI and average are pretty much decided.
 
2012-10-03 02:42:42 PM  

DeWayne Mann: roc6783: DeWayne Mann: NutznGum: If my grandma had balls we'd have called her grandpa.

If I wasn't boycotting this thread I'd make a joke about MY grandmother here and the people in the LAST AL MVP THREAD THAT'S TECHNICALLY STILL GOING ON WOULD ALL LAUGH

Was about to mention this, was laughing, you know you will not stay out of this thread.

Oh, I'm not going to stay out. But I'm not going to go and form well crafted arguments based on facts & research and things like that.

I'm mostly just gonna make a lot of stupid jokes. If anyone wants my ACTUAL input on this topic, well, there's about 300 posts about that that are easily found.


Who the hell reads that garbage?
 
2012-10-03 02:42:57 PM  

ChrisDe: SlothB77: Angels play 6:40 EST

Tigers play 8:10 EST

And Rangers at 3:35. Hamilton has a chance to tie or win the HR title. I'm guessing Miggy will sit if Josh doesn't hit a home run. The RBI and average are pretty much decided.


Trout basically has to go 6-6 to catch Miggy if he doesn't play. Something like that.
 
2012-10-03 02:44:17 PM  

roc6783: And so it begins...


No no no, if I wasn't boycotting, that would've been a MUCH longer reply.

roc6783: Who the hell reads


You could've stopped right there.
 
2012-10-03 02:45:10 PM  

SlothB77: ChrisDe: SlothB77: Angels play 6:40 EST

Tigers play 8:10 EST

And Rangers at 3:35. Hamilton has a chance to tie or win the HR title. I'm guessing Miggy will sit if Josh doesn't hit a home run. The RBI and average are pretty much decided.

Trout basically has to go 6-6 to catch Miggy if he doesn't play. Something like that.


Copied from a Detroit Free Press article:

Cabrera is hitting .331. He has healthy leads over Trout (.324) and Mauer (.320). Here's what Trout and Mauer would need to do to pass Cabrera if he goes ...

• Cabrera 0-for-0 (.3306): Trout: 6-for-6 (.3309). Mauer: 9-for-9 (.3315).

• Cabrera 0-for-1 (.3301): Trout: 6-for-6 (.3309). Mauer: 8-for-8 (.3303).

• Cabrera 0-for-2 (.3295): Trout: 5-for-5 (.3297). Mauer: 8-for-8 (.3303).

• Cabrera 0-for-3 (.32905): Trout: 5-for-5 (.3297). Mauer: 7-for-7 (.32909).

• Cabrera 0-for-4 (.32852): Trout 4-for-4 (.32857). Mauer: 7-for-7 (.3290).

• Cabrera 0-for-5 (.3280): Trout 4-for-4 (.3285). Mauer: 7-for-7 (.3290).

• Cabrera 0-for-6 (.3274): Trout 4-for-4 (.3285). Mauer: 6-for-6 (.3278).
 
2012-10-03 02:48:19 PM  
Let's say Hamilton hits a home run, but his game is over now and Trout is 1-2 in his game and it is 8:00pm. Do you start Miguel Cabrera?
 
2012-10-03 02:48:33 PM  
a.espncdn.com

Do you know who I am? You don't know anything about my problems!

I'm gonna lose the MVP to some rookie!
 
2012-10-03 02:49:48 PM  

wxboy: SlothB77: ChrisDe: SlothB77: ***snip***
Cabrera is hitting .331. He has healthy leads over Trout (.324) and Mauer (.320). Here's what Trout and Mauer would need to do to pass Cabrera if he goes ...

• Cabrera 0-for-0 (.3306): Trout: 6-for-6 (.3309). Mauer: 9-for-9 (.3315).

• Cabrera 0-for-1 (.3301): Trout: 6-for-6 (.3309). Mauer: 8-for-8 (.3303).

• Cabrera 0-for-2 (.3295): Trout: 5-for-5 (.3297). Mauer: 8-for-8 (.3303).

• Cabrera 0-for-3 (.32905): Trout: 5-for-5 (.3297). Mauer: 7-for-7 (.32909).

• Cabrera 0-for-4 (.32852): Trout 4-for-4 (.32857). Mauer: 7-for-7 (.3290).

• Cabrera 0-for-5 (.3280): Trout 4-for-4 (.3285). Mauer: 7-for-7 (.3290).

• Cabrera 0-for-6 (.3274): Trout 4-for-4 (.3285). Mauer: 6-for-6 (.3278).


And if that happens, should Carbrera no longer be MVP since he will no longer have the Triple Crown?

Assuming he was in the first place, which he wasn't.
 
2012-10-03 02:51:33 PM  

SlothB77: Let's say Hamilton hits a home run, but his game is over now and Trout is 1-2 in his game and it is 8:00pm. Do you start Miguel Cabrera?


In that scenario, Cabrera could likely have 4 at-bats without risking the batting title, even going 0-4.
 
2012-10-03 02:53:59 PM  
But isn't Jeter half black? Cuz I was over on the Politics tab and...

/I KEED!
//Runs
 
2012-10-03 02:57:26 PM  
Just so we're clear:

A common argument for Cabrera is "You have to give him the MVP if he wins the Triple Crown!"

and right now y'all are discussing how sitting him would help him win the Triple Crown.

So....not playing (for personal gain) is MVP worthy?

Neat. I'll have to tell my boss that one. "No, I can't come in Thanksgiving night. If I do, someone might eat more turkey, more stuffing or watch more football than me, and then I won't be Thanksgiving MVP!"
 
2012-10-03 02:57:55 PM  
Is there going to be one of these every day until November when the award is announced?
 
2012-10-03 02:58:04 PM  

ChrisDe: SlothB77: Let's say Hamilton hits a home run, but his game is over now and Trout is 1-2 in his game and it is 8:00pm. Do you start Miguel Cabrera?

In that scenario, Cabrera could likely have 4 at-bats without risking the batting title, even going 0-4.


Cabrera will start and probably be pulled from the game after he makes an out. I can't see him taking a seat tonight.
 
2012-10-03 02:59:44 PM  

sigdiamond2000: This is a good example of why we need advanced troll statistics.


So the tab you are on should be weighted into the troll rating.
Main (1)
Sports (.7) {sentimentallity}
Business (1.1) {theres like no traffic}
Geek (.6) {really sentimental men-children}
Entertainment (1.2) {unprovable opinion is lackluster for trolling}
Politics (.2) {doesn't belong on this website. waiting for an april fool's day where it doesn't exist}
Video...doesn't count. This isn't youtube.

Where ((troll rating)(troll weight))= Troll effectivity

and ((troll attempts)/ (responses to troll attempts- comment troll ratings))(troll avg rating)= TrollPS+
 
2012-10-03 03:03:13 PM  

thecpt: Business (1.1) {theres like no traffic}


I....may have forgotten from time to time that there IS a business tab. Whenever I click on it, I just think it's either Geek or Entertainment and I get surprised that there's no articles that day.
 
2012-10-03 03:03:41 PM  
And a corollary:

Let's say Hamilton hits a home run, but his game is over now and Trout is 3-3 in his game and it is 8:00pm. Do you start Miguel Cabrera?
 
2012-10-03 03:04:42 PM  

thecpt: sigdiamond2000: This is a good example of why we need advanced troll statistics.

So the tab you are on should be weighted into the troll rating.
Main (1)
Sports (.7) {sentimentallity}
Business (1.1) {theres like no traffic}
Geek (.6) {really sentimental men-children}
Entertainment (1.2) {unprovable opinion is lackluster for trolling}
Politics (.2) {doesn't belong on this website. waiting for an april fool's day where it doesn't exist}
Video...doesn't count. This isn't youtube.

Where ((troll rating)(troll weight))= Troll effectivity

and ((troll attempts)/ (responses to troll attempts- comment troll ratings))(troll avg rating)= TrollPS+


But if you do it that way I may not win the troll MVP. You'll probably award it to Einsteinbrenner.
 
2012-10-03 03:04:45 PM  

DeWayne Mann: and right now y'all are discussing how sitting him would help him win the Triple Crown.

So....not playing (for personal gain) is MVP worthy?


Literally no one in this thread is making that argument.
 
2012-10-03 03:05:21 PM  

dlriumtrigger: IAmRight: If Derek Jeter had Mike Trout's stat line, Miguel Cabrera wouldn't even be in the MVP discussion, either. What's your point? Oh, you don't have one.


Thread should have been over here.


and either way jeter would have sent them both lovely gift baskets...
 
2012-10-03 03:06:26 PM  

ChrisDe: SlothB77: Let's say Hamilton hits a home run, but his game is over now and Trout is 1-2 in his game and it is 8:00pm. Do you start Miguel Cabrera?

In that scenario, Cabrera could likely have 4 at-bats without risking the batting title, even going 0-4.


Exactly, but he can not play and still take the triple crown. He'd be tied with Hamilton for homers, but still leads the league. Just not outright.
 
2012-10-03 03:07:31 PM  

DeWayne Mann: I....may have forgotten from time to time that there IS a business tab. Whenever I click on it, I just think it's either Geek or Entertainment and I get surprised that there's no articles that day.


I go there fully expecting economic impact talks and what i get are people saying libtard and fartbongo. It is by far the most disappointing tab for its name.
 
2012-10-03 03:08:02 PM  

SlothB77: ChrisDe: SlothB77: Let's say Hamilton hits a home run, but his game is over now and Trout is 1-2 in his game and it is 8:00pm. Do you start Miguel Cabrera?

In that scenario, Cabrera could likely have 4 at-bats without risking the batting title, even going 0-4.

Exactly, but he can not play and still take the triple crown. He'd be tied with Hamilton for homers, but still leads the league. Just not outright.


Same as Yaz, I think.
 
2012-10-03 03:13:57 PM  

SlothB77: ChrisDe: SlothB77: Let's say Hamilton hits a home run, but his game is over now and Trout is 1-2 in his game and it is 8:00pm. Do you start Miguel Cabrera?

In that scenario, Cabrera could likely have 4 at-bats without risking the batting title, even going 0-4.

Exactly, but he can not play and still take the triple crown. He'd be tied with Hamilton for homers, but still leads the league. Just not outright.


I would think he would like the chance to retake the outright HR lead in that case. 3 AB's to go for it. Trout's not going to go 5-5 today.
 
2012-10-03 03:22:10 PM  

wxboy: I would think he would like the chance to retake the outright HR lead in that case. 3 AB's to go for it. Trout's not going to go 5-5 today.


I think so too. But, if Trout is 3-3 at gametime, then things gets dicey.
 
2012-10-03 03:22:58 PM  
Articles like this only propel the notion that us sports fans in general are irrational mental midgets incapable of engaging in intelligent, honest discourse without being overtaken by rash emotion and blind homerism over f*cking laundry.

So, thanks a lot, I'm-only-butthurt-because-someone-on-my-team-is-being-"disrespected" guy.
 
2012-10-03 03:24:07 PM  

Killer Cars: Articles like this only propel the notion that us sports fans in general are irrational mental midgets incapable of engaging in intelligent, honest discourse without being overtaken by rash emotion and blind homerism over f*cking laundry.

So, thanks a lot, I'm-only-butthurt-because-someone-on-my-team-is-being-"disrespected" guy.


I think you're trying to say

MIKE AVILES FOR MVP!
 
2012-10-03 03:25:57 PM  

Killer Cars: Articles like this only propel the notion that us sports fans in general are irrational mental midgets incapable of engaging in intelligent, honest discourse without being overtaken by rash emotion and blind homerism over f*cking laundry.

So, thanks a lot, I'm-only-butthurt-because-someone-on-my-team-is-being-"disrespected" guy.


Also, this got me to actually click on the article. Let me show you how far I got.

I'm going to keep this short and sweet. Miguel Cabrera should win the American League MVP.

The game I grew up on taught me nothing mattered more to batters than average, home runs and RBIs.


Then I closed it.

Then I reopened it to copy & paste that. Then I closed it again.
 
2012-10-03 03:27:38 PM  

sigdiamond2000: DeWayne Mann: and right now y'all are discussing how sitting him would help him win the Triple Crown.

So....not playing (for personal gain) is MVP worthy?

Literally no one in this thread is making that argument.


dude has played 160 out of 161 games this season.
 
2012-10-03 03:29:14 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Then I reopened it to copy & paste that. Then I closed it again.


You gave him to page views. YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM
 
2012-10-03 03:29:16 PM  

Killer Cars: Articles like this only propel the notion that us sports fans in general are irrational mental midgets incapable of engaging in intelligent, honest discourse without being overtaken by rash emotion and blind homerism over f*cking laundry.

So, thanks a lot, I'm-only-butthurt-because-someone-on-my-team-is-being-"disrespected" guy.


Uhh...since when isn't that true? You moron, put your cat back on, I liked him better.
 
2012-10-03 03:31:27 PM  

thecpt: DeWayne Mann: Then I reopened it to copy & paste that. Then I closed it again.

You gave him to page views. YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM


No, I opened it from cache. Only gave him the one view.

That's still more than I wanted to, but....thanks a lot Killer Cars.
 
2012-10-03 03:32:31 PM  
So if Trout goes 5-for-5 tonight and Hamilton hits 2 HR and Cabrera goes 0-for-3, we get to say that Cabrera deserves no part of the MVP, right? Who gives a sh*t about the RBI king without the other two?
 
2012-10-03 03:33:29 PM  

sigdiamond2000: DeWayne Mann: and right now y'all are discussing how sitting him would help him win the Triple Crown.

So....not playing (for personal gain) is MVP worthy?

Literally no one in this thread is making that argument.


Are you saying that no one is making the argument that he should automatically win MVP if he gets the Triple Crown, or that no one is making the argument that it could, and likely would, benefit him in getting the Triple Crown not to play in the final game?

Both of those arguments are being made.
 
2012-10-03 03:34:35 PM  

IAmRight: So if Trout goes 5-for-5 tonight and Hamilton hits 2 HR and Cabrera goes 0-for-3, we get to say that Cabrera deserves no part of the MVP, right? Who gives a sh*t about the RBI king without the other two?


No no no, I just made a stupid joke about that.

Apparently, no one is ACTUALLY saying that winning the Triple Crown means Cabrera is the MVP, they're just saying Cabrera is the MVP because he's winning the Triple Crown.

There is, supposedly, a difference there.
 
2012-10-03 03:35:38 PM  

roc6783: Are you saying that no one is making the argument that he should automatically win MVP if he gets the Triple Crown, or that no one is making the argument that it could, and likely would, benefit him in getting the Triple Crown not to play in the final game?

Both of those arguments are being made.


Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. You'll hurt his thinking whatchucallit
 
2012-10-03 03:38:34 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Then I closed it.


Which is what I should have done immediately after opening it. I honestly thought he would meander into some heart-felt homage to Detroit, and how much it would mean to their fan base (which, okay, I can dig it)...but no. Just half-assed HURR GEEK STATS R STUPID with a special fark you to Ken Rosenthal, of all people. I'm certain in his "original" piece, he probably included a variety of homophobic slurs directed at those evil, baby-killing baseball writers, but, they got edited out.

roc6783: You moron, put your cat back on, I liked him better.


Hell, my cat ended up creating his own account last night and got sponsored into TF-dom. F*cker.
 
2012-10-03 03:40:01 PM  

roc6783: sigdiamond2000: DeWayne Mann: and right now y'all are discussing how sitting him would help him win the Triple Crown.

So....not playing (for personal gain) is MVP worthy?

Literally no one in this thread is making that argument.

Are you saying that no one is making the argument that he should automatically win MVP if he gets the Triple Crown, or that no one is making the argument that it could, and likely would, benefit him in getting the Triple Crown not to play in the final game?

Both of those arguments are being made.


No, I'm saying no one is making the argument that not playing for personal gain is MVP worthy.
 
2012-10-03 03:41:35 PM  

Killer Cars: DeWayne Mann: Then I closed it.

Which is what I should have done immediately after opening it. I honestly thought he would meander into some heart-felt homage to Detroit, and how much it would mean to their fan base (which, okay, I can dig it)...but no. Just half-assed HURR GEEK STATS R STUPID with a special fark you to Ken Rosenthal, of all people. I'm certain in his "original" piece, he probably included a variety of homophobic slurs directed at those evil, baby-killing baseball writers, but, they got edited out.

roc6783: You moron, put your cat back on, I liked him better.

Hell, my cat ended up creating his own account last night and got sponsored into TF-dom. F*cker.


Those TF'ers will do anything for a shot at a little pussy, eh?
 
2012-10-03 03:43:56 PM  

Killer Cars: Which is what I should have done immediately after opening it. I honestly thought he would meander into some heart-felt homage to Detroit, and how much it would mean to their fan base (which, okay, I can dig it)...but no. Just half-assed HURR GEEK STATS R STUPID with a special fark you to Ken Rosenthal, of all people. I'm certain in his "original" piece, he probably included a variety of homophobic slurs directed at those evil, baby-killing baseball writers, but, they got edited out.


Here's what I don't get about the 2 sentences I read.

The game I grew up with taught me that wins & ERA are the most important things to pitchers.

Then, when I got older and was able to think independently, I realized that the game lied to me, and it was a lot more nuanced than that.

So what's this guy's problem?

This isn't even a baseball thing. I'm sure most of us were told in elementary school that Christopher Columbus discovered America. Is that true?
 
2012-10-03 03:47:13 PM  
I think the steals and defense bring Trout into the discussion of MVP, isn't that fair? If Jeter put up either of their stats he would have to be in the discussion cuz of his age and because how many injuries that line-up has sustained while still making it to the playoffs.
 
2012-10-03 03:47:36 PM  

roc6783: Are you saying that no one is making the argument that he should automatically win MVP if he gets the Triple Crown, or that no one is making the argument that it could, and likely would, benefit him in getting the Triple Crown not to play in the final game?


You do see the difference in saying "X could help a player" and saying "the player should do X," right? Even it would likely help him to sit out, it's not exactly the most honorable thing to do. Acknowledging that taking a course of action is possible, and even beneficial, is not the same as advocating that the course of action should be taken.
 
2012-10-03 03:47:37 PM  

sigdiamond2000: No, I'm saying no one is making the argument that not playing for personal gain is MVP worthy.


This somewhat goes against my boycott, but

Intentionally? No.

Unintentionally? Abso-freaking-lutely.
 
2012-10-03 03:51:04 PM  

DeWayne Mann: roc6783: Are you saying that no one is making the argument that he should automatically win MVP if he gets the Triple Crown, or that no one is making the argument that it could, and likely would, benefit him in getting the Triple Crown not to play in the final game?

Both of those arguments are being made.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. You'll hurt his thinking whatchucallit



This is what you said:

A common argument for Cabrera is "You have to give him the MVP if he wins the Triple Crown!"

and right now y'all are discussing how sitting him would help him win the Triple Crown.

So....not playing (for personal gain) is MVP worthy?


No one on this thread is making the argument that not playing for personal gain is MVP worthy. That's a strawman. Someone puts the question out there about whether you would sit Cabrera depending on several possible scenarios and you turn that into some false narrative where people are arguing something they're not (i.e., that sitting in order to ensure the triple crown is admirable).

You pro-Trout guys are doing a good job arguing his case. No need to engage in ridiculousness.
 
2012-10-03 03:54:29 PM  

DeWayne Mann: So what's this guy's problem?


Honest answer? I believe the root of this RAGE over stat-geekery is a because some people, who are otherwise perfectly rational, analytical beings in other areas of their day-to-day life, just really, really want to turn that part of their brain "off" when watching sports.

Doesn't mean they can't, or won't, think critically when watching them, or when talking about what they saw after the fact, but, something about numbers, even though they are more than capable of comprehending them when presented with them if they wanted to, choose not to.

Jokey answer? lol he mad
 
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