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(NPR)   How to win a Presidential Debate: 'the pivot'   (npr.org) divider line 103
    More: Interesting, Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, No Child Left Behind, Brett O'Donnell, President Bush  
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2968 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Oct 2012 at 11:32 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-03 09:04:19 AM
Also known as 'how to annoy the hell out of your audience' by avoiding anything of substance.
 
2012-10-03 09:17:28 AM
^That.
 
2012-10-03 09:27:02 AM
It certainly helps to have a toothless moderator and arbitrary time limits that assure you can stretch your bullshiat until the red light comes on.
 
2012-10-03 09:29:03 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-03 09:31:32 AM
That was interesting. I'm aware of the pivot and usually try to notice them, but I'm wondering how many of them I haven't noticed in the past.
 
2012-10-03 09:40:17 AM
It would be better to have the best lawyers from each side grill opponents with yes or no questions. The courtroom debate format.
 
2012-10-03 10:32:00 AM
Debates, aka campaign speeches punctuatued in real time by biatchy retorts. I kindo f hope Obama doesn't pivot too much and instead is frank and direct. He has a real chance here to respond to the fallacious criticisms of the past 4 years and set the record straight. My hopes are he doesn't stray too far down the pander-hole.
 
2012-10-03 10:35:24 AM

Elandriel: Debates, aka campaign speeches punctuatued in real time by biatchy retorts. I kindo f hope Obama doesn't pivot too much and instead is frank and direct. He has a real chance here to respond to the fallacious criticisms of the past 4 years and set the record straight. My hopes are he doesn't stray too far down the pander-hole.


Responding to criticisms is the last thing you want to do in a debate. Attack and show how you are better and then attack again. Politely.
 
2012-10-03 10:39:52 AM

make me some tea: That was interesting. I'm aware of the pivot and usually try to notice them, but I'm wondering how many of them I haven't noticed in the past.


You know what other things you haven't noticed in the past is that porn movies used to have fairly developed plot-lines and tried to have the characters be at least somewhat believable. Why can't do that anymore? If elected President....

/you get the idea
//I can also pivot an Fark post into a poop thread
 
2012-10-03 10:43:02 AM

mrshowrules: make me some tea: That was interesting. I'm aware of the pivot and usually try to notice them, but I'm wondering how many of them I haven't noticed in the past.

You know what other things you haven't noticed in the past is that porn movies used to have fairly developed plot-lines and tried to have the characters be at least somewhat believable. Why can't do that anymore? If elected President....

/you get the idea
//I can also pivot an Fark post into a poop thread


I prefer homemade porn. No plot necessary, totally believable.
 
2012-10-03 11:36:52 AM
How Politicians Get Away With Dodging The Question

Journalism is dead?
 
2012-10-03 11:37:36 AM
I'm sure somebody will be along to try and pivot this into an "Obama bad" thread anytime soon.
 
2012-10-03 11:37:37 AM
Christ, if Romney "pivots" any more than he already has, he's gonna need new knees after this election. I mean, we're all waiting to see what is position will be on the DREAM act tonight, and whether it will be the same as his position yesterday (for it), his position the day before that (against it), or his position before that (for it). I think this debate is a great chance for Obama to do the very best thing for his campaign, shut up and let Romney talk.
 
2012-10-03 11:41:29 AM
Did it three times in her first debate with Biden and was declared winner by a lot a folks who should have known better

s2.reutersmedia.net
 
2012-10-03 11:42:21 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 450x318]


Beat me to it. Dammit!
 
2012-10-03 11:42:52 AM
thats why I always felt there needs to be a mandatory yes no question section.
 
2012-10-03 11:43:38 AM
speaking of pivots, whar troll thread whar?
 
2012-10-03 11:44:36 AM

mayIFark: thats why I always felt there needs to be a mandatory yes no question section.


for example do u knew that your mother is lesbian?
 
2012-10-03 11:45:20 AM
i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-10-03 11:45:30 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 450x318]


That's the first thing I think about when I hear or read the word "pivot".
 
2012-10-03 11:45:31 AM
As stated, if Romney wins you will think he stood on stage by himself as we go in to full 'How bad Romney is' mode, if its a tie it will be 'Obama did well and here's all the bad things Romney did' and if Obama wins it will be 'How great Obama is how how unprepared and terrible Romney is'

You will never hear how 'bad' Obama was no matter how it turns out.
 
2012-10-03 11:45:33 AM

Bag of Hammers: Did it three times in her first debate with Biden and was declared winner by a lot a folks who should have known better

[s2.reutersmedia.net image 450x321]


After her awful pre-debate performance, anything not involving choking on her own vomit would have been declared a win for her.
 
2012-10-03 11:46:47 AM
carolramsey.net

Remember kids, debating is a sport of deflection, obfuscation, and fuzzy factual assertions.
 
2012-10-03 11:47:41 AM
Anyone who sat through a single Republican primary debate this election is already familiar with the pivot. I don't think anybody actually answered a direct question throughout the whole damn thing.
 
2012-10-03 11:48:23 AM

randomjsa: As stated, if Romney wins you will think he stood on stage by himself as we go in to full 'How bad Romney is' mode, if its a tie it will be 'Obama did well and here's all the bad things Romney did' and if Obama wins it will be 'How great Obama is how how unprepared and terrible Romney is'

You will never hear how 'bad' Obama was no matter how it turns out.


Jesus Çhrist, listen to yourself. You sound like a baby.

Do you not know what the word 'never' means? So you're not going to be posting how bad Obama did if flops?
 
2012-10-03 11:48:39 AM

randomjsa: As stated, if Romney wins you will think he stood on stage by himself as we go in to full 'How bad Romney is' mode, if its a tie it will be 'Obama did well and here's all the bad things Romney did' and if Obama wins it will be 'How great Obama is how how unprepared and terrible Romney is'

You will never hear how 'bad' Obama was no matter how it turns out.


Romney memo cited Gallup poll as the proof that Obama beat McCain in three debates. Before we make predictions, is that that poll satisfactory for you in determining who won/tied?
 
2012-10-03 11:49:03 AM
This is why we need Bill Maher and Jon Stewart to modify debates.
Because as soon as they finished their answer, there would be a follow up of, "OK, but that is not the question I asked. Now answer the farking question."
 
2012-10-03 11:49:31 AM
Wow so you mean we won't actually get new and interesting information out of either canidate because they'll answer the question they want instead of the question asked? That is unexpected, it totally hasn't happened in every presidential debate ever.

Next you'll be telling me both sides will claim their canidate "won" a contest with no score or judging.
 
2012-10-03 11:50:14 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: [i.imgur.com image 450x318]


I came here to post this too.

And I'm shocked I was beat.

Kudos.
 
2012-10-03 11:50:33 AM
We should make it entertaining. As in, The Running Man: Candidate Edition.
 
2012-10-03 11:51:14 AM

randomjsa: As stated, if Romney wins you will think he stood on stage by himself as we go in to full 'How bad Romney is' mode, if its a tie it will be 'Obama did well and here's all the bad things Romney did' and if Obama wins it will be 'How great Obama is how how unprepared and terrible Romney is'

You will never hear how 'bad' Obama was no matter how it turns out.


www.onepennysheet.com
 
2012-10-03 11:51:32 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: i.imgur.com


That was one of the two funny moment in that entire series. And I hated Ross. It has become the only thing I can think of whenever I hear the word "pivot", however.
 
2012-10-03 11:51:34 AM

bdub77: Bag of Hammers: Did it three times in her first debate with Biden and was declared winner by a lot a folks who should have known better

After her awful pre-debate performance, anything not involving choking on her own vomit would have been declared a win for her.


Go on....

caffeinatedthoughts.com
 
2012-10-03 11:51:54 AM

Sybarite: It certainly helps to have a toothless moderator and arbitrary time limits that assure you can stretch your bullshiat until the red light comes on.


Possibly relevant:
Link
 
2012-10-03 11:51:59 AM

NeoCortex42: Anyone who sat through a single Republican primary debate this election is already familiar with the pivot. I don't think anybody actually answered a direct question throughout the whole damn thing.


Everyone does it. It's the epitome of Politics 101.
 
2012-10-03 11:52:32 AM

Bag of Hammers: Did it three times in her first debate with Biden and was declared winner by a lot a folks who should have known better

[s2.reutersmedia.net image 450x321]


Man I hated watching that debate. Was it really only 3, I can't say that I really remember her answering any direct questions. But I was distracted by how many times she said "joe the..." or "joe sixpack". (not a good day to be named joe)
 
2012-10-03 11:53:41 AM

blastoh: This is why we need Bill Maher and Jon Stewart to modify debates.
Because as soon as they finished their answer, there would be a follow up of, "OK, but that is not the question I asked. Now answer the farking question."


Get the chick from the Weakest Link.
 
2012-10-03 11:54:31 AM

randomjsa: As stated, if Romney wins you will think he stood on stage by himself as we go in to full 'How bad Romney is' mode, if its a tie it will be 'Obama did well and here's all the bad things Romney did' and if Obama wins it will be 'How great Obama is how how unprepared and terrible Romney is'

You will never hear how 'bad' Obama was no matter how it turns out.


Winning a debate requires facts and logically consistent arguments. Winning tonight for Romney means pretending not to be a douche for a full 90 minutes. Which standard are you using?
 
2012-10-03 11:55:25 AM
Rogers believes this is because we have limited attention, and most of the time when we're watching debates, we spend that attention on social evaluation - Do we like this person? Do we trust this person? - and only generally monitor content.

When you consider that the average IQ in America is estimated to be about 98, this statement makes a lot more sense.
 
2012-10-03 11:56:34 AM

theknuckler_33: Rogers believes this is because we have limited attention, and most of the time when we're watching debates, we spend that attention on social evaluation - Do we like this person? Do we trust this person? - and only generally monitor content.

When you consider that the average IQ in America is estimated to be about 98, this statement makes a lot more sense.


Half of all Americans score had below average grades in school.
 
2012-10-03 11:56:49 AM
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
Would like to raise the level of debate
 
2012-10-03 11:56:53 AM

bdub77: It would be better to have the best lawyers from each side grill opponents with yes or no questions. The courtroom debate format.


That would guarantee that the GOP candidate got his/her ass handed to her every time.

/faith-based reality doesn't stand up well to scrutiny.
 
2012-10-03 11:57:34 AM

theknuckler_33: When you consider that the average IQ in America is estimated to be about 98, this statement makes a lot more sense.


Remember, half of Americans are even dumber than that.

(hint: it's the half that thinks they're smarter than college-educated folks)
 
2012-10-03 11:57:46 AM
Martha Raddatz: Governor Romney, what is your position on Healthcare regulation?

Romney: I'm gonna ignore that question and instead talk about Israel. I love Israel so much. Bless its heart. There's a special place for Israel in heaven. And I know some people are going to say I'm only sayin' that to pander to Florida voters, but from a very young age, my two greatest loves were always Jews and Cuban food.
 
2012-10-03 11:57:56 AM
The real terror comes about when someone says something so stupid both sides wince.

I was in the audience at a debate that included a christian radio host. The topic of slavery came up and he said the bible had debt slavery but not the chattel slavery we used to practise. The whole crowd grumbled because we actually had read the bible through and it's in Leviticus (25:44-46). His attempt to pivot around the slavery in the bible issue was a complete train wreck.
 
2012-10-03 11:58:34 AM
 
2012-10-03 12:00:25 PM
reminds me of "Slip, Slid away"
 
2012-10-03 12:00:39 PM

bdub77: It would be better to have the best lawyers from each side grill opponents with yes or no questions. The courtroom debate format.


Prior inconsistent statements would certainly be called out far more often.
 
2012-10-03 12:00:54 PM

qorkfiend: NeoCortex42: Anyone who sat through a single Republican primary debate this election is already familiar with the pivot. I don't think anybody actually answered a direct question throughout the whole damn thing.

Everyone does it. It's the epitome of Politics 101.


I agree that it's used by every politician, but usually not every single question. You answer the questions you can give a good response to, and pivot the ones that you want to try to avoid. You also are supposed to try to pivot to a prepared talking point that is at least on topic. The Republican primaries didn't even have the candidates coming anywhere near the question asked. It was more along the lines of:
Q: "What specifically would you do to help secure our borders?"
A:"Man, that Obama really sucks, doesn't he."

See also: Any time a Romney campaign rep does a national interview. There's got to be a point of diminishing returns when it comes to using the pivot.
 
2012-10-03 12:01:59 PM

Superjew: theknuckler_33: When you consider that the average IQ in America is estimated to be about 98, this statement makes a lot more sense.

Remember, half of Americans are even dumber than that.

(hint: it's the half that thinks they're smarter than college-educated folks)


Yes, of course I understood the point you are trying to make, but averages do not work that way. ;-)
 
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