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(BBC)   Yet another homeopathic claim withers and dies in the cold harsh light of science. Science   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 74
    More: Obvious, Cardiff University, balanced diets, vitamin D, blood levels, placebo controlled  
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8888 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Oct 2012 at 9:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-03 07:00:28 AM
The use of vitamins isn't 'homeopathy' dumbassmitter.
 
2012-10-03 07:41:18 AM
Let's just get this out of the way: Science!
 
2012-10-03 08:56:12 AM
The use of vitamins isn't 'homeopathy' dumbassmitter.
 
2012-10-03 09:11:16 AM
Well what about vitamin Dick?
 
2012-10-03 09:15:39 AM

AbbeySomeone: The use of vitamins isn't 'homeopathy' dumbassmitter.


The use of a given vitamin as a unproven, specific treatment is though.
 
2012-10-03 09:20:43 AM

sno man: AbbeySomeone: The use of vitamins isn't 'homeopathy' dumbassmitter.

The use of a given vitamin as a unproven, specific treatment is though.


Unless it's 1 mg of Vitamin D dissolved in 10 gallons of water, I'm pretty sure it's still not homeopathy (even if still otherwise ineffective).

Or are some homeopathic treatments not completely retarded (even if still otherwise ineffective)?
 
2012-10-03 09:21:34 AM
Clearly subby has no friggin' clue what homeopathy is and thinks it means the same thing as "alternative medicine," and is even wrong about the application of that label to the article.
 
2012-10-03 09:23:33 AM

sno man: AbbeySomeone: The use of vitamins isn't 'homeopathy' dumbassmitter.

The use of a given vitamin as a unproven, specific treatment is though.


Not unless you are diluting the vitamin so much that there are essentially no molecules of the vitamin in the homeopathic "medicine" and you are using that to treat an overdose or some other negative body reaction to that vitamin. :p
 
2012-10-03 09:24:02 AM

sno man: The use of a given vitamin as a unproven, specific treatment is though.


No, it's not. A homeopathic application of Vitamin D would be to try and treat vitamin D overdose. Just taking vitamin D in the errant belief that it will somehow magically fend off some particular disease isn't homeopathy, just pointless.

One's a wive's tale, one's just retarded.

/ it should be illegal to sell homeopathic "remedies" in the same aisle as real medicine...
 
2012-10-03 09:25:00 AM
As pointed out, TFA actually has nothing to do with homeopathy.

Still, any excuse to post one of my favorite Mitchell and Webb skits mocking the whole thing.
 
2012-10-03 09:25:29 AM
I've never heard of Vitamin D for colds.
 
2012-10-03 09:28:04 AM

WitchyWoman: I've never heard of Vitamin D for colds.


I have. Vitamin D is the cool, hip thing that all the alternative medicine people are doing these days.
 
2012-10-03 09:28:44 AM
www.bjorklundnutrition.net
 
Oh you brits and your vitamin D shenanigans. 
 
2012-10-03 09:32:25 AM
A New Zealand team did the "gold standard" of tests - a randomised placebo-controlled trial

Well, I can tell you didn't use the gold standard of dictionaries, that's for sure.
 
2012-10-03 09:33:22 AM
In case you weren't aware subby, vitamins aren't the same thing as homeopathic medicines (if they could even be called medicines).
 
2012-10-03 09:38:57 AM
homoerotic clam, indeed!!
 
2012-10-03 09:39:29 AM
Fine...
unproven alternative medicine != unproven homeopathic medicine

/your results may vary or not
 
2012-10-03 09:39:46 AM
Gays have the same rights as the rest of us. Homeopaths should just shut up!
 
2012-10-03 09:49:36 AM
This is a good reason to trot out an old favorite:
Dara O'Briain: Science doesn't know everything
 
2012-10-03 09:54:54 AM
Well, duh. They were off by a letter.
 
2012-10-03 09:56:58 AM
FTA: He said echinacea supplements may also help ward off coughs and colds

Hasn't the effectiveness of echinacea been debunked for years now?
 
2012-10-03 10:05:51 AM
Don't wanna talk to no scientist,
Motherfarker's lyin' and gettin' me pissed
 
2012-10-03 10:10:13 AM
"Know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine" - Tim Minchin, Storm

/Totally worth a watch.
 
2012-10-03 10:10:41 AM

AbbeySomeone: The use of vitamins isn't 'homeopathy' dumbassmitter.


Exactly. It's not homeopathy, it's an ineffective old wives' tale. Homeopathy is the belief that substances can be detected or influential even after arbitrary dilution.
 
2012-10-03 10:14:41 AM
Okay, so we've got this beautifully detailed scientific report that we can't seem to find any holes in. Let's spend the whole article quoting a guy that thinks the exact opposite. We'll call him an expert, cause, you know, journalism.
 
2012-10-03 10:14:48 AM
Perhaps if people washed their hands after using the bathroom, they wouldn't get sick as often and wouldn't get everyone else sick. I see way too many people walk out of the bathroom after taking a leak and not wash their hands. You just touched your genitals! Wash your goddamn hands!
 
2012-10-03 10:16:34 AM
The use of vitamins isn't 'homeopathy' dumbassmitter.

/the doc gave me the same sentence as you!
//must be good stuff
 
2012-10-03 10:18:07 AM

DubyaHater: You just touched your genitals! Wash your goddamn hands!


You don't keep your genitals clean enough to eat off of?
 
2012-10-03 10:24:09 AM

DubyaHater: Perhaps if people washed their hands after using the bathroom, they wouldn't get sick as often and wouldn't get everyone else sick. I see way too many people walk out of the bathroom after taking a leak and not wash their hands. You just touched your genitals! Wash your goddamn hands!


Are your genitals really that funky?
 
2012-10-03 10:29:16 AM

bhcompy: A New Zealand team did the "gold standard" of tests - a randomised placebo-controlled trial

Well, I can tell you didn't use the gold standard of dictionaries, that's for sure.


That's actually proper OED spelling for Commonwealth English and therefore is perfectly appropriate for the BBC to use. Americanized M-W spelling is no more or less correct, it's simply what is commonly used in the US.
 
2012-10-03 10:32:36 AM

sno man: AbbeySomeone: The use of vitamins isn't 'homeopathy' dumbassmitter.

The use of a given vitamin as a unproven, specific treatment is though.


Actually, that's not homeopathy either, because the agent being used as a treatment is actually present (unlike in homeopathy, where the agent is so diluted that it's statistically unlikely to be present at all).

I believe the word you're looking for is quackery, or possibly snake oil, which certainly includes homeopathy, but also covers a number of other subjects.
 
2012-10-03 10:38:13 AM

WelldeadLink: DubyaHater: You just touched your genitals! Wash your goddamn hands!

You don't keep your genitals clean enough to eat off of?


Holocaust Agnostic: DubyaHater: Perhaps if people washed their hands after using the bathroom, they wouldn't get sick as often and wouldn't get everyone else sick. I see way too many people walk out of the bathroom after taking a leak and not wash their hands. You just touched your genitals! Wash your goddamn hands!

Are your genitals really that funky?


I know where my genitals have been (in your mom). I don't know where your genitals have been (other than in my mom).
 
2012-10-03 10:39:01 AM
Isn't the larger part of the problem the question of whether or not the vitamins we buy in pill form actually pass their vitamins to our bodies as they go through? I'm guessing vitamins are a real thing we need, so if you're ill and low on them adding more could help. Therefore if the pills don't work it seems less likely that it's because the vitamins don't help, and more that the vitamin pills don't work?

If that makes sense...
 
2012-10-03 10:40:27 AM

Teknowaffle: Well what about vitamin Dick?


An injection of that vitamin is good for what ails ya.
 
2012-10-03 10:42:30 AM

Slaxl: Isn't the larger part of the problem the question of whether or not the vitamins we buy in pill form actually pass their vitamins to our bodies as they go through? I'm guessing vitamins are a real thing we need, so if you're ill and low on them adding more could help. Therefore if the pills don't work it seems less likely that it's because the vitamins don't help, and more that the vitamin pills don't work?

If that makes sense...


Thats why the authors of the study said it would only be effective if you were Vitamin D defficient. Otherwise you're basically just buying yourself expensive pee.
 
2012-10-03 10:42:56 AM

DubyaHater: Perhaps if people washed their hands after using the bathroom, they wouldn't get sick as often and wouldn't get everyone else sick. I see way too many people walk out of the bathroom after taking a leak and not wash their hands. You just touched your genitals! Wash your goddamn hands!


Diluting the germs only makes them stronger. The longer you wash your hands the deadlier the pathogens. The safest thing to do is to never wash yourself.
 
2012-10-03 10:43:36 AM

PsyLord: FTA: He said echinacea supplements may also help ward off coughs and colds

Hasn't the effectiveness of echinacea been debunked for years now?


members.optusnet.com.au

I do not understand how this could be expected to provide any remedy to any illness or symptom.
 
2012-10-03 10:44:20 AM

PsyLord: FTA: He said echinacea supplements may also help ward off coughs and colds

Hasn't the effectiveness of echinacea been debunked for years now?


It's still being debated, but there is some evidence that it might work as a preventative measure. It becomes useless once a cold is firmly rooted though--which means it's useless for the majority of people who take it, since they don't even buy it until they're already sick.
 
2012-10-03 10:45:25 AM

DubyaHater: Perhaps if people washed their hands after using the bathroom, they wouldn't get sick as often and wouldn't get everyone else sick. I see way too many people walk out of the bathroom after taking a leak and not wash their hands. You just touched your genitals! Wash your goddamn hands!


What are you doing with your genitals that they're dirtier than your hands? Honestly, we should be cleaning our genitals after we take a leak and our hands before it.
 
2012-10-03 10:58:54 AM
 
2012-10-03 11:00:41 AM
www2.b3ta.com

www.flaneur.org.uk
 
2012-10-03 11:01:16 AM
Has anyone mentioned yet that the use of vitmans isn't homeopathy?
 
/ Just checking
 
2012-10-03 11:06:26 AM
FTFA:
A New Zealand team did the "gold standard" of tests - a randomised placebo-controlled trial - to see what impact the supplements would have.

Uhm, the gold standard would have been a randomised, placebo-controlled twin study with dose dependence of both vitamin D and the titer of virus, and also been time dependent with hyper-NOVA analysis and ab initio in situ post-hoc Bayesian reconstitution of fourier-transformed wharrrrrrgarrrrbl

Oh, the article was written by a ...journalist... nevermind.
 
2012-10-03 11:06:44 AM
"The vitamin D group caught an average 3.7 colds per person compared with 3.8 colds per person for the placebo group."

On average? Over 18 months? Who the hell are these people?
 
2012-10-03 11:12:00 AM

mamoru: Not unless you are diluting the vitamin so much that there are essentially no molecules of the vitamin in the homeopathic "medicine" and you are using that to treat an overdose or some other negative body reaction to that vitamin. :p


According to homeopathy, doing that would actually give you a cold. If you want cold medicine, you have to take a used kleenex from a cold sufferer, soak it in water, and start doing your dilutions.

/homeopathy is confusing
 
2012-10-03 11:14:06 AM

sno man: The use of a given vitamin as a unproven, specific treatment is though.


No. It's not. Really.

Homeopathy (also spelled homoeopathy or homœopathy; from the Greek hómoios- ὅμοιος- "like-" + páthos πάθος "suffering") is a system of alternative medicine originated in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on the doctrine of similia similibus curentur ("like cures like"), according to which a substance that causes the symptoms of a disease in healthy people will cure that disease in sick people.
 
2012-10-03 11:18:41 AM

zipdog: According to homeopathy, doing that would actually give you a cold. If you want cold medicine, you have to take a used kleenex from a cold sufferer, soak it in water, and start doing your dilutions.


That only works with Iocane Powder

imageshack.us
 
2012-10-03 11:19:07 AM

SpectroBoy: sno man: The use of a given vitamin as a unproven, specific treatment is though.

No. It's not. Really.

Homeopathy (also spelled homoeopathy or homœopathy; from the Greek hómoios- ὅμοιος- "like-" + páthos πάθος "suffering") is a system of alternative medicine originated in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on the doctrine of similia similibus curentur ("like cures like"), according to which a substance that causes the symptoms of a disease in healthy people will cure that disease in sick people.


Okay fark off, I let it slide when Millennium did that but FARKEN READ THE THREAD FIRST!
 
2012-10-03 11:19:44 AM

Snapper Carr: As pointed out, TFA actually has nothing to do with homeopathy.

Still, any excuse to post one of my favorite Mitchell and Webb skits mocking the whole thing.


Well, in that case, I don't need to post it too.
 
2012-10-03 11:24:12 AM

sno man: AbbeySomeone: The use of vitamins isn't 'homeopathy' dumbassmitter.

The use of a given vitamin as a unproven, specific treatment is though.


Homeopathy is a very specific thing that medicine actually thought was legit at some point (300 years ago) and has just overstayed its welcome.

The word you're looking for is "snake oil", an intentionally fake medical treatment only believed in by the gullible targets of the con. The originators of the idea were aware it was fake from the beginning.

//Albeit it's benign enough, so it's as good as a placebo and all it does is make you look stupid.
//With treatment, a cold can last as much as seven days. Without, it can last up to a week.
 
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