If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Business Journals)   Princeton graduates draw the highest salary. Some even manage to pay off their tuition loans within a few years after they retire   (bizjournals.com) divider line 52
    More: Interesting, student loans, salary  
•       •       •

1910 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2012 at 8:43 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



52 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-10-03 08:48:36 AM
Silly Subby, Princeton students don't have loans. Daddy's got it covered.
 
2012-10-03 08:51:56 AM
1year at Princeton will set you back $55k
 
2012-10-03 08:58:10 AM
Approves
 
2012-10-03 08:58:58 AM

RumsfeldsReplacement: Silly Subby, Princeton students don't have loans. Daddy's got it covered.


Wrong, genius. A huge amount of students at Ivys have loans. Something like 70 percent of Harvard students have some kind of aid.

Found it:

http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/index.html

Link

DURR, RICH PEEPOLE.
 
2012-10-03 09:28:18 AM

topcon: RumsfeldsReplacement: Silly Subby, Princeton students don't have loans. Daddy's got it covered.

Wrong, genius. A huge amount of students at Ivys have loans. Something like 70 percent of Harvard students have some kind of aid.

Found it:

http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/index.html

Link

DURR, RICH PEEPOLE.


The kids with rich parents get it covered by daddy. The kids without means get their tuition reduced to state college levels.
 
2012-10-03 09:37:18 AM
Any word on where these Princeton grads are working? I remember once comparing salary and employment data between two highly-regarded universities, one on the east coast, and one in the midwest. The eastern school drew higher salaries, BUT when I compared the employment data, all of their grads were working in places with ridiculous costs-of-living like NY/Boston. Meanwhile the most expensive city where the midwestern university's grads were working was Chicago, and most of the other cities were even cheaper yet.

My point is, that a straight salary comparison doesn't always tell you that much; $120,000 starting salary is great, but if you live in a place where rent is 3x as high, food is more expensive, and you had to take out more loans in the process.
 
2012-10-03 09:38:19 AM

Brick-House: 1year at Princeton will set you back $55k


Clearly the goverment must do something about this.

After all it's our God given right to have affordable education for every single person, and if a private entity such as Princeton, or Harvard choose to pay "professors" upwards of $200K for teaching a single class, then surely every tax payer in the country should shoulder the burden for those that choose to attend these private instituions and take study mid evil music then damnit, we should chip in.

And kids, if you feel that you borrowed too much money, or the educational institution you chose nows seems to be too pricey, then go sleep in the public parks, smoke dope and protest. After all you're a victim and your debts should be forgiven.
 
2012-10-03 09:46:05 AM
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7361263/79772618#c79772618" target="_blank">HMS_Blinkin</a>:</b> <i>Any word on where these Princeton grads are working?</i>

Well, there's one in my kitchen.

/just kidding - I do most of the cooking cause I only went to Cornell.
 
2012-10-03 09:54:12 AM
Median > mode for stuff like this.
 
2012-10-03 09:55:57 AM

bhcompy: topcon: RumsfeldsReplacement: Silly Subby, Princeton students don't have loans. Daddy's got it covered.

Wrong, genius. A huge amount of students at Ivys have loans. Something like 70 percent of Harvard students have some kind of aid.
Found it: http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/index.html
DURR, RICH PEEPOLE.

The kids with rich parents get it covered by daddy. The kids without means get their tuition reduced to state college levels.


This is true, but you're forgetting everyone in between--what used to be known as the Middle Class back when it existed--who are saddled with absurd amounts of loans that are largely privately held since Federal loans are limited. You're better off if you came from homelessness than if you came from America's suburbs, when it comes to top tier collegiate education.
 
2012-10-03 09:58:14 AM

Brick-House: 1year at Princeton will set you back $55k


1 year at washu in stl, next door to my work.... is about 44k.
 
2012-10-03 10:04:18 AM

Danger Mouse:
Clearly the goverment must do something about this.
After all it's our God given right to have affordable education for every single person, and if a private entity such as Princeton, or Harvard choose to pay "professors" upwards of $200K for teaching a single class, then surely every tax payer in the country should shoulder the burden for those that choose to attend these private instituions and take study mid evil music then damnit, we should chip in.
And kids, if you feel that you borrowed too much money, or the educational institution you chose nows seems to be too pricey, then go sleep in the public parks, smoke dope and protest. After all you're a victim and your debts should be forgiven.


Well, that's an interesting idea, but I think maybe you should put your efforts toward not being so snide. You didn't go to Princeton.
 
2012-10-03 10:05:46 AM
 
2012-10-03 10:07:10 AM

Half Right: This is true, but you're forgetting everyone in between--what used to be known as the Middle Class back when it existed--who are saddled with absurd amounts of loans that are largely privately held since Federal loans are limited. You're better off if you came from homelessness than if you came from America's suburbs, when it comes to top tier collegiate education.


This is not true anymore at some of the richer Ivies.

At Harvard, for example, your tuition and room and board is capped at 10% of your family income if your family makes less than $180,000/yr, which is community college level expense if you're actually what we mostly think of as middle class. I guess there might be some people with parents who make $250k but aren't willing to help their kids pay for school who are in a little trouble, but mostly for the actual middle class costs are slashed so much that it's affordable.

The real places to get burnt are the lower tier private schools which are just as expensive but don't have the endowment to provide the same sort of aid, and the for profit schools like Phoenix Online that don't have a very good history of producing employable graduates.
 
2012-10-03 10:12:05 AM

you have pee hands:
The real places to get burnt are the lower tier private schools which are just as expensive but don't have the endowment to provide the same sort of aid, and the for profit schools like Phoenix Online that don't have a very good history of producing employable graduates.


Oh, and law school.
 
2012-10-03 10:14:05 AM
Oh the horror of being FORCED to go to Princeton, too bad they did not have a choice.
 
2012-10-03 10:23:59 AM

you have pee hands: This is not true anymore at some of the richer Ivies.

At Harvard, for example, your tuition and room and board is capped at 10% of your family income if your family makes less than $180,000/yr, which is community college level expense if you're actually what we mostly think of as middle class. I guess there might be some people with parents who make $250k but aren't willing to help their kids pay for school who are in a little trouble, but mostly for the actual middle class costs are slashed so much that it's affordable.


Awesome--then a lot has changed since I've been in school and looked into all this. You're right about the smaller-endowed schools still not being a good deal though.
 
2012-10-03 10:32:03 AM

Danger Mouse: Brick-House: 1year at Princeton will set you back $55k

Clearly the goverment must do something about this.

After all it's our God given right to have affordable education for every single person, and if a private entity such as Princeton, or Harvard choose to pay "professors" upwards of $200K for teaching a single class, then surely every tax payer in the country should shoulder the burden for those that choose to attend these private instituions and take study mid evil music then damnit, we should chip in.

And kids, if you feel that you borrowed too much money, or the educational institution you chose nows seems to be too pricey, then go sleep in the public parks, smoke dope and protest. After all you're a victim and your debts should be forgiven.


Or they can just come steal your shiat. It's not about entitlement. It's about social stability. You. Douche.
 
2012-10-03 10:35:59 AM

HeadLever: And in other news that would make Mike Rowe's chest swell with pride, The South Dakotoa School of mines just passed Harvard for average starting salary after finishing college.


I read that as "school of mimes". Had a good laugh.
 
2012-10-03 10:44:26 AM
I had a professor suggest I apply to Princeton. For an MFA in photography.

/BA in English many years ago.
//Going to welding school now.
 
2012-10-03 11:15:15 AM

spacelord321: Danger Mouse: Brick-House: 1year at Princeton will set you back $55k

Clearly the goverment must do something about this.

After all it's our God given right to have affordable education for every single person, and if a private entity such as Princeton, or Harvard choose to pay "professors" upwards of $200K for teaching a single class, then surely every tax payer in the country should shoulder the burden for those that choose to attend these private instituions and take study mid evil music then damnit, we should chip in.

And kids, if you feel that you borrowed too much money, or the educational institution you chose nows seems to be too pricey, then go sleep in the public parks, smoke dope and protest. After all you're a victim and your debts should be forgiven.

Or they can just come steal your shiat. It's not about entitlement. It's about social stability. You. Douche.


Youre an idoit.
 
2012-10-03 11:18:06 AM
Paid my loans off in the first 4 years after I graduated. It's just 4 more years of being cold and living on ramen, but then you're free.
 
2012-10-03 11:23:34 AM
Threads like these make me long for the wisdom of czarangeles.
 
2012-10-03 11:40:40 AM

Danger Mouse: Youre an idoit.


*snerk*

Forgiving student loans would be a fantastic economic stimulus, and would be cheaper than bailing out the banks again.
Whatever moral and spelling issues you might have, it's still a good idea.
 
2012-10-03 11:51:58 AM
I have a kid at Princeton. They have very generous financial aid and a no-debt policy. You pay only what they think you can pay based on your income. Not everyone can come up with what they think you can come up with and some students end up with loans, But they generally come out with pretty low debt.
 
2012-10-03 12:34:02 PM

RumsfeldsReplacement: Silly Subby, Princeton students don't have loans. Daddy's got it covered.


Annnd, we're done.
 
2012-10-03 12:37:53 PM
For the most part, this looks like a list of places with a high cost of living, which necessitates higher salaries, assuming a large portion of graduates get jobs with 200 miles of the school. Notable exceptions are the school of mines, Carleton, etc.

I'd be more interested in a list of graduate salaries / cost of living.
 
2012-10-03 12:53:51 PM
ha
 
2012-10-03 01:31:16 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Danger Mouse: Youre an idoit.

*snerk*

Forgiving student loans would be a fantastic economic stimulus, and would be cheaper than bailing out the banks again.
Whatever moral and spelling issues you might have, it's still a good idea.


Thanks for handling my light work Sarge.
/tips hat
 
2012-10-03 01:36:34 PM
Graduated college, got a job, had roommates, ate cheap, drove a shiatty car, paid a little extra each month and
had my loans paid off in a little over ten years.
It is possible. It's not always easy, but there are almost always expenses you can cut.
 
2012-10-03 02:19:46 PM

gunther_bumpass: Graduated college, got a job, had roommates, ate cheap, drove a shiatty car, paid a little extra each month and
had my loans paid off in a little over ten years.
It is possible. It's not always easy, but there are almost always expenses you can cut.


But it does no one any good, least of all the economy, if every college graduate has to spend a decade servicing their debt. You want the best economic stimulus anyone could give to the auto industry. the housing industry?
Forgive student loan debt.
Students everywhere forced into that situation, living frugally with roomates and ramen for the better part of a decade, will finally have disposable income. They'll buy cars, they'll buy houses. Things that working Americans used to make a priority, but now are stuck servicing student debt.

I spend half of my monthly pay on student loans. I'll have them paid off early, but that's still about six years of economic non-activity. Forgive my loans today and I'd buy a car tomorrow, and replace the 12 year old and 10 year old cars my wife and I drive out of necessity. I could seriously look at getting a house, as I'd actually be able to sock away some money for a down payment. I know and see so many college grads in the same boat, and to fix it would cost what we spend on the War on Terror in a week.

As for moral qualms, I only have to look at the percentage of federal and state funding given to colleges in years past and how diminished it is today. The government used to do much more to keep college costs off of the backs of graduates. Anyone whose college cost $1000 per year in 1976 and insists students today pay their own way needs to understand how much the government paid for their education.
 
2012-10-03 02:54:31 PM
At least they're not part of that whole Yale thing.
 
2012-10-03 03:05:53 PM
things cost more in dense new england cities

news at a11
 
2012-10-03 03:07:48 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: gunther_bumpass: Graduated college, got a job, had roommates, ate cheap, drove a shiatty car, paid a little extra each month and
had my loans paid off in a little over ten years.
It is possible. It's not always easy, but there are almost always expenses you can cut.

But it does no one any good, least of all the economy, if every college graduate has to spend a decade servicing their debt. You want the best economic stimulus anyone could give to the auto industry. the housing industry?
Forgive student loan debt.
Students everywhere forced into that situation, living frugally with roomates and ramen for the better part of a decade, will finally have disposable income. They'll buy cars, they'll buy houses. Things that working Americans used to make a priority, but now are stuck servicing student debt.

I spend half of my monthly pay on student loans. I'll have them paid off early, but that's still about six years of economic non-activity. Forgive my loans today and I'd buy a car tomorrow, and replace the 12 year old and 10 year old cars my wife and I drive out of necessity. I could seriously look at getting a house, as I'd actually be able to sock away some money for a down payment. I know and see so many college grads in the same boat, and to fix it would cost what we spend on the War on Terror in a week.

As for moral qualms, I only have to look at the percentage of federal and state funding given to colleges in years past and how diminished it is today. The government used to do much more to keep college costs off of the backs of graduates. Anyone whose college cost $1000 per year in 1976 and insists students today pay their own way needs to understand how much the government paid for their education.


My wife is a non-traditional vet student.
4 years of undergrad == 30k in student loans
2 years of part-time classes to get accepted (paid out-of-pocket)
4 years in an out-of-state tuition vet school (280k in student loans)

Vast, vast, vast majority of loans are at 7.9%
It's like buying a house with a credit card.
 
2012-10-03 03:41:39 PM

Sergeant Grumbles:
But it does no one any good, least of all the economy, if every college graduate has to spend a decade servicing their debt. You want the best economic stimulus anyone could give to the auto industry. the housing industry?
Forgive student loan debt.
Students everywhere forced into that situation, living frugally with roomates and ramen for the better part of a decade, will finally have disposable income. They'll buy cars, they'll buy houses. Things that working Americans used to make a priority, but now are stuck servicing student debt.


Of course it does some good - it teaches you the cold reality of responsibility. Make three loan payments, or get a 55" tv? Which do you need more? What's better for the economy, a guy sitting around watching football, (or honey boo-boo, or mad men, whatever) or a guy that's skipping the prime-time lineup to work on a better way to make money?

I guess I just looked at it from a practical perspective. I didn't need a house or a new car, I payed off the loans and saved what I could after helping support my mom back east. ( I even cut my own hair for fark's sake. ) Right now I'm not doing super-awesome, but I'm not doing terribly, either. Of course, I also decided not to buy into the real estate boom when everyone around me was mortgaging one property to buy two others. (When animators start giving you investment tips, run the other way.)

All these forgiveness programs (to corporations and individuals) make me feel like a farking chump for not jumping blindly into the game along with everyone else. I agree that college costs are getting ridiculous, but I'm not sure that a blanket forgiveness program is the answer. Frankly, it would piss me off. No one wants to take responsibility for anything anymore, and the shrinking pool of those who do are left holding the bag for the rest.

I'm also dubious about the idea that giving people in their 20's and early 30's tons of extra disposable income would help the economy. It feels like a weak rationalization to go out and buy toys instead of trying to move forward. But what the hell do I know anyway? I'm no economizist.
 
2012-10-03 04:08:46 PM

gunther_bumpass: I'm also dubious about the idea that giving people in their 20's and early 30's tons of extra disposable income would help the economy.


Why?
Demand drives the economy. Giving money to those most likely to spend it is a huge spur to demand, and especially helpful when the auto and housing markets could use a shot in the arm and those two items are on the short list of graduate needs and wants.

A decade of servicing debt doesn't teach anything. It's no more than a punishment for being poor. You might be struck by the fantasy that there are millions of indebted college students devising ways to break into entrepreneurship, but it's just that, fantasy. Weighed down by student loan debt, graduates have very little choice but to work to pay off the debt, with very little disposable income with which to fund entrepreneurial pursuits. Again, if their loans were forgiven, they could pursue their business ideas unimpeded.
 
2012-10-03 05:01:44 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: gunther_bumpass: I'm also dubious about the idea that giving people in their 20's and early 30's tons of extra disposable income would help the economy.

Why?
Demand drives the economy. Giving money to those most likely to spend it is a huge spur to demand, and especially helpful when the auto and housing markets could use a shot in the arm and those two items are on the short list of graduate needs and wants.

A decade of servicing debt doesn't teach anything. It's no more than a punishment for being poor. You might be struck by the fantasy that there are millions of indebted college students devising ways to break into entrepreneurship, but it's just that, fantasy. Weighed down by student loan debt, graduates have very little choice but to work to pay off the debt, with very little disposable income with which to fund entrepreneurial pursuits. Again, if their loans were forgiven, they could pursue their business ideas unimpeded.



So, forgive student debt, re-enter housing bubble. Sounds like a plan.

A decade of servicing debt is not a punishment - it's something you agreed to do when you signed the damned loan papers. No one held a gun to your head. Entrepreneurs start out all the time - from all walks of life. You can't tell me that the guys selling those delicious bacon wrapped hot dogs down on Mission are trust fund kids with MAs. They scraped together a little cash, and started a business. As with most things, anyone who has that focus can do it.

As far as I know, there is no degree required to be an entrepreneur. If you're paying upwards of 200k for that, you're being ripped off. I know plenty of people who skipped college altogether and became public servants, or worked construction, or saved enough to open a bar. They're all doing pretty well. If you can't pay your loans working in your chosen field, I'm sorry, but you either payed too much for school, or you chose the wrong career. Instead of pleading to be released from debt that you knowingly undertook, petition the government to restrict loans, both public and private. The only reason colleges are charging as much as they do is because they can - the money is out there.

Consolidate loans, work out some longer terms, give people a break on interest, yeah, that's fine. Forgive student loans in an effort to boost the economy? That's absurd. It's a nice talking point to get votes, but it's not a solution.

This of course is only my uninformed opinion.
 
2012-10-03 05:20:00 PM
Granny: Me? Huh, that learned doctorin' from John Hopkins?
Drysdale: You studied medicine at John Hopkins?
Jed: I can vouch for that. Granny rode a mule all the way to Timbo, Arkansas just to study with John and Elviri Hopkins.
Drysdale: John and Elviri Hopkins?
Granny: Probably the greatest husband and wife yarb doctorin' team in the history of medicine.
Jed: How long you study with them, Granny?
Granny: Well, I took the full course. Then I done what they call "post-graduate work." All in all, I was there purt near two weeks.
 
2012-10-03 06:01:32 PM

gunther_bumpass: Sergeant Grumbles:
But it does no one any good, least of all the economy, if every college graduate has to spend a decade servicing their debt. You want the best economic stimulus anyone could give to the auto industry. the housing industry?
Forgive student loan debt.
Students everywhere forced into that situation, living frugally with roomates and ramen for the better part of a decade, will finally have disposable income. They'll buy cars, they'll buy houses. Things that working Americans used to make a priority, but now are stuck servicing student debt.


Of course it does some good - it teaches you the cold reality of responsibility. Make three loan payments, or get a 55" tv? Which do you need more? What's better for the economy, a guy sitting around watching football, (or honey boo-boo, or mad men, whatever) or a guy that's skipping the prime-time lineup to work on a better way to make money?

I guess I just looked at it from a practical perspective. I didn't need a house or a new car, I payed off the loans and saved what I could after helping support my mom back east. ( I even cut my own hair for fark's sake. ) Right now I'm not doing super-awesome, but I'm not doing terribly, either. Of course, I also decided not to buy into the real estate boom when everyone around me was mortgaging one property to buy two others. (When animators start giving you investment tips, run the other way.)

All these forgiveness programs (to corporations and individuals) make me feel like a farking chump for not jumping blindly into the game along with everyone else. I agree that college costs are getting ridiculous, but I'm not sure that a blanket forgiveness program is the answer. Frankly, it would piss me off. No one wants to take responsibility for anything anymore, and the shrinking pool of those who do are left holding the bag for the rest.

I'm also dubious about the idea that giving people in their 20's and early 30's tons of extra disposable income would help the economy. It feels like a weak rationalization to go out and buy toys instead of trying to move forward. But what the hell do I know anyway? I'm no economizist.


Well, you can make the personal responsibility argument all you like, but bailouts are happening regardless, right now. The fed is creating 40 billion a month to buy mbs from corporations that were stupid enough to buy it. These are supposedly professionals that knew better, at least with students you can make the case they were to naive to realize the hole they were digging for themselves. Parents/teachers told them they couldn't be successful in life without a degree, so they blindly went into it, not really knowing what it would really cost, or how it would translate to a job

Additionally, as grumbles pointed out, it provides injections directly to consumers which will spur demand. Companies expand and hire to meet that demand. The current method frees up cash for the companies, but since there is no increased demand, they just sit on the money
 
2012-10-03 06:20:46 PM

gunther_bumpass: This of course is only my uninformed opinion.


It's derpier than most and nothing but the same tired talking points. "Start a business!" "Should have gotten a STEM degree!" Save yourself the trouble and just day "Derp" next time.

Like I said before, ignoring your own personal morality, forgiving loans would boost the economy by giving graduates lots of disposable income that currently goes to servicing debt. There is nothing absurd about giving money to those most likely to spend it.
Food stamps generate more economic activity than a tax cut for the rich, and bailing out the students will do much more than bailing out the banks.
But it rubs people the wrong way, even though many of those same people benefited from government-funding of schools in the past. Funding, I might add, that is disappearing altogether as cash strapped local, state, and the federal government are forced to cut back due to, hurrr, the stagnant economy.
It's one more way to drive up demand, and that's exactly what we need.

Since forgiveness still proves unpalatable to the "I built this" crowd, I'm willing to support immediate consolidation of all private and public loans a student possesses upon graduation and no interest accrued or payments due until the student has cleared a certain income level.
 
2012-10-03 06:22:50 PM

Pumpernickel bread: .



Well, you can make the personal responsibility argument all you like, but bailouts are happening regardless, right now. The fed is creating 40 billion a month to buy mbs from corporations that were stupid enough to buy it. These are supposedly professionals that knew better, at least with students you can make the case they were to naive to realize the hole they were digging for themselves. Parents/teachers told them they couldn't be successful in life without a degree, so they blindly went into it, not really knowing what it would really cost, or how it would translate to a job

Additionally, as grumbles pointed out, it provides injections directly to consumers which will spur demand. Companies expand and hire to meet that demand. The current method frees up cash for the companies, but since there is no increased demand, they just sit on the money

I agree that people need to be more aware of what they're getting into career-wise, but I can't really say that they are less at fault than any banker that f'ed up. The only difference is that bankers ought to be hanged for their irresponsibility.. Ha ha.

Have you given any thought to what will happen to the supply of loan money should these loans be forgiven? It would disappear, as it has with the mortgage industry in the past few years. Who wants to lend money with no assurance whatsoever that it won't be written off when the former student feels he shouldn't have to pay it back? Perhaps that's one way to effectively lower college costs - they'll have to be more competitive as their enrollment drops when people can't afford it anymore.

Of course it never seems to work out that way - the cry will be "We need to raise tuition to cover our dwindling enrollment." Which will be followed by more loans and a tactical shift to "We need to raise tuition to cover the costs of soaring enrollment"

But then I am a pessimist.
 
2012-10-03 06:28:55 PM

Pumpernickel bread: Well, you can make the personal responsibility argument all you like, but bailouts are happening regardless, right now. The fed is creating 40 billion a month to buy mbs from corporations that were stupid enough to buy it. These are supposedly professionals that knew better, at least with students you can make the case they were to naive to realize the hole they were digging for themselves. Parents/teachers told them they couldn't be successful in life without a degree, so they blindly went into it, not really knowing what it would really cost, or how it would translate to a job


Not even that. I don't hold students, especially not 18 years olds, responsible for entering a degree program that's not in demand 4 years later, especially not with the economic implosion we had in 2008.
We barely expect our top economist to predict that far ahead.
 
2012-10-03 06:32:02 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: We barely expect our top economists to predict that far ahead.


FTFM

gunther_bumpass: Have you given any thought to what will happen to the supply of loan money should these loans be forgiven? It would disappear, as it has with the mortgage industry in the past few years. Who wants to lend money with no assurance whatsoever that it won't be written off when the former student feels he shouldn't have to pay it back? Perhaps that's one way to effectively lower college costs - they'll have to be more competitive as their enrollment drops when people can't afford it anymore.


Valid concern. Hopefully any program that includes forgiveness also includes an overhaul about how we fund and what we expect from institutions of higher learning.
 
2012-10-03 06:46:47 PM

Sergeant Grumbles:

It's derpier than most and nothing but the same tired talking points. "Start a business!" "Should have gotten a STEM degree!" Save yourself the trouble and just day "Derp" next time.

.


Ah. The "derp" argument. I see I'm dealing with a man of letters.

I'm sure writing off all student loans, or at least, restructuring them so that no interest will need to be paid
will not only kickstart the economy by letting 22 year olds buy houses (because now that it's 4 years later they definitely know
what they're getting into - not like when they signed those silly student loan papers back in' 08), but will also boost the amount of money available to make new loans to new students because who doesn't want to lend money for free to people who may or may
not pay it back? It's win/win!

Ideally, college tuition would be half or less of what it is now - but this is the real world. No one wants to give you something for nothing. Our system is currently broken, but there are ways around it. Go to community college. Go to a state school. Choose a profession that will enrich your finances as well as your mind. Many of them do not require a degree. I myself chose a line that is fun, but not terribly lucrative, and i either have to accept that, or move my ass into something else. The world doesn't owe me a god-damned thing, and I'm sick of people whining over choices they've made of their own free will.

The secondary education system in the US is in a shameful state. INstead of making minds, we make football programs.
We let every dip on the faculty teach their bogus elective of choice (that also happens to require their $180 text). Students are
getting ripped off, and until they decide that college is primarily a place for education - not sports, not socializing, not getting drunk, stoned, and laid, they will continue to get ripped off. They leave under mountains of debt with no marketable skills. If you're paying that much money, you better damn well be there to learn something that makes it worthwhile. I don't know how to fix it, but I'm pretty sure you can't do it by removing even more responsibility from the syllabus.

Anyway, enjoy your Wednesday.
 
2012-10-03 06:54:12 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Sergeant Grumbles: We barely expect our top economists to predict that far ahead.

FTFM

gunther_bumpass: Have you given any thought to what will happen to the supply of loan money should these loans be forgiven? It would disappear, as it has with the mortgage industry in the past few years. Who wants to lend money with no assurance whatsoever that it won't be written off when the former student feels he shouldn't have to pay it back? Perhaps that's one way to effectively lower college costs - they'll have to be more competitive as their enrollment drops when people can't afford it anymore.

Valid concern. Hopefully any program that includes forgiveness also includes an overhaul about how we fund and what we expect from institutions of higher learning.


ok, now were back on the same page. or at least, in the same chapter.
As far as choosing a degree that will be in demand and paying well in 4 years - you can't really ever go wrong with engineering, science, or medicine. I think part of the problem is all the nonsense fruitcake majors available. Could be college isn't the right choice for everyone. Maybe that's the problem, I don't know.
 
2012-10-03 06:58:56 PM

gunther_bumpass: but this is the real world.


imageshack.us

For fark's sake. Come up something something new.

You yourself say the system is broken. Is there some rational reason that students screwed by said system don't deserve relief?
 
2012-10-03 07:05:25 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: gunther_bumpass: but this is the real world.

[imageshack.us image 660x393]

For fark's sake. Come up something something new.

You yourself say the system is broken. Is there some rational reason that students screwed by said system don't deserve relief?


"herp derp". And you're accusing me of having nothing new.
If that's what you consistently fall back to in a discussion, clearly you wasted your time in school.
Hell I don't even know what I'm talking about and I've avoided using that trite crap.
 
2012-10-03 07:05:59 PM

gunther_bumpass: As far as choosing a degree that will be in demand and paying well in 4 years - you can't really ever go wrong with engineering, science, or medicine. I think part of the problem is all the nonsense fruitcake majors available.


This is the derp I was talking about. This is why I just blew up in the above post. You STILL said it, even after I'd already pointed out the talking point.
What constitutes a fruitcake major? Sociology? Psychology? Graphic Design? Art History? Should no one ever major in those because the economy might crash? Do those majors never provide anything of value?
 
2012-10-03 11:15:48 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: gunther_bumpass: As far as choosing a degree that will be in demand and paying well in 4 years - you can't really ever go wrong with engineering, science, or medicine. I think part of the problem is all the nonsense fruitcake majors available.

This is the derp I was talking about. This is why I just blew up in the above post. You STILL said it, even after I'd already pointed out the talking point.
What constitutes a fruitcake major? Sociology? Psychology? Graphic Design? Art History? Should no one ever major in those because the economy might crash? Do those majors never provide anything of value?


Of course they provide value - but if you expect to pull down over $100k a year right out of school as an art history major, you're working under a delusion - doubly so if you're paying 50k a year for that degree. You're not worth less to society, you're just not going to be compensated as much for your trouble. That's the major thing people should be hit with over and over when choosing a school and a major. If you're going to take out loans to study in a field with little chance of success, you'd better be damn confident in your abilities, or you're taking a huge chance.

I myself took a fruitcake major (illustration), and though I've done ok at it, I'd trade it for an engineering degree in a heartbeat.
But that's the perspective you get after living a few years.
 
2012-10-04 12:10:36 AM

gunther_bumpass: I myself took a fruitcake major (illustration), and though I've done ok at it, I'd trade it for an engineering degree in a heartbeat.


You sound like me. I started with Civil Engineering and switched to Graphic and 3D Design. I knew it would mean less money, and I was okay with that. And at the time, CG media was up and coming, and the video game industry had eclipsed the movie industry in size and profitability. Seemed like a good bet. The economic downturn changed all that, but I don't regret my decision.

It's just that no one thinks they're going to get $100K a year right out of school as an art history major. People who take those paths generally know what they're getting themselves into, and it isn't as if we have a huge glut of art history majors. In a down economy, their opportunity dries up faster than most, and it is something completely beyond their control. I don't see any reason to hold them accountable for that just because their career isn't as stable as a STEM degree.

Like I said before I blew up, loan consolidation and interest deferment until reaching a certain income level would be a great help. You could take a risk on a more esoteric major and not be shackled with ballooning debt when job prospects are dim.
I still think forgiving the loans outright would be a great economic stimulus. A large, young nationwide group getting more spending money with no major obligations or ties to a location? Is there a better driver of demand?
 
2012-10-04 12:42:31 AM

Sergeant Grumbles: gunther_bumpass: As far as choosing a degree that will be in demand and paying well in 4 years - you can't really ever go wrong with engineering, science, or medicine. I think part of the problem is all the nonsense fruitcake majors available.

This is the derp I was talking about. This is why I just blew up in the above post. You STILL said it, even after I'd already pointed out the talking point.
What constitutes a fruitcake major? Sociology? Psychology? Graphic Design? Art History? Should no one ever major in those because the economy might crash? Do those majors never provide anything of value?


I won't deride the majors by calling them fruitcake majors, but what I will say is that when one can make the same investment for things that provide two significantly different returns, it's not "derp" to bring it up.
 
2012-10-04 12:56:58 AM

bhcompy: I won't deride the majors by calling them fruitcake majors, but what I will say is that when one can make the same investment for things that provide two significantly different returns, it's not "derp" to bring it up.


It becomes derp when part of the same old collection of "blame the victim" opposition to a addressing student loan debt.
Can't find a job in your major? You should have studied a STEM major. You shouldn't have majored in underwater basketweaving and ancient Greek lesbian studies. You should start a business with no capital. No one to blame but you for failing. How dare you suggest your student loans are too heavy a burden! You should have known there'd be a worldwide economic implosion before you started college!

It's tiresome, and I will call it what it is. Derp.

Student loans should not be able to bloat as they do when the student cannot find gainful employment. My realistic solution is, as I said, private+public loan consolidation and interest deferment until a certain income level is reached. Loans still eventually get paid and no one is stuck out of work and watching their principle climb, whatever they majored in.
 
Displayed 52 of 52 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report