Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Spiegel)   Economist Joseph Stiglitz:"The American dream has become a myth"   ( spiegel.de) divider line
    More: Sad, Joseph Stiglitz, American Dream, social inequality, income inequality metrics, SPIEGEL, American families, economists, rhetoric of science  
•       •       •

10245 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 11:59 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



236 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2012-10-03 01:23:44 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Bullsh*t! With luck, determination, and some intelligence you have the best chance to make something of yourself in this country than anywhere else.

3 years ago I was making just a few bucks more than minimum wage. Now I have an awesome job, got promoted 3 times and have more money than I ever had in my life and the future looks nothing but bright. I did all this and all I have is a sh*tty associates degree. Working on a Bachelor's (still) but I'll get that eventually.

The American Dream is still alive and well. Just scale it back a bit. I can't emphasize luck enough, though. Luck plays a HUGE part in life. Call it fate or whatever, but that sh*t is real. It's that combined with showing up and giving everything you've got.

I respect Joe, but he's wrong. This is still an amazing country filled with amazing people capable of awesome things. Yes, the economy is tough right now. We all know that. We've been through it before. We'll come out the other side and we'll move on as we always have.


As much as I like you, I can't help but think you've got some blinders on. Possibly because you've not experienced the same corporate abuse (and sheer bad luck) some of us have; obviously I speculate since I don't know you, but there are plenty of companies which don't give a rat's ass how hard you work and that you showed up every day. My first real job was the only one I've actually enjoyed outside of military stuff (and obviously not all of that). I busted my ass for that company/store, and was rewarded with lies about my chances for promotion, lies about worker's comp when I hurt my back on the job, and lies and deception about later employment stability. Also they hired a moron with a snazzy resume over promoting either myself or my co-worker, both of us having far more experience, knowledge, and especially tact and intelligence. All apparently because he showed up to interview on 9/11 and that impressed someone. (I'm not being bitter when I say that, this guy was absurdly inept long term despite being hired as a manager).

Some companies are run by good people who care about their workers. Most aren't. 'Opportunity' is not available for everyone, no matter what stories we're told around the camp fire. There is a small percentage of jobs out there that pay better than a living wage, with benefits. Not everyone can do those jobs, not everyone wants them, but there are most likely still more people who can and would than there are actual openings.

Opportunity is out there, but you can't always beat out the other guy for the opening, and that leaves you with... less.

As it is, as it always has been, just we have forgotten that over the last 50-70 years.
 
2012-10-03 01:24:49 AM  
Came for the Inglorious Basterds references, leaving satisfied.
 
2012-10-03 01:26:27 AM  

WhyteRaven74: neongoats: It's been half a century since we had nearly 100% employment.

We've never had that. Indeed the closest we ever got was just before the end of WW2, for about six months. After that unemployment was anywhere between 4 and 7%. And the late 90s saw unemployment that was better than most of the 50s.

We will never, ever, ever, EVER see as prosperous a time again.

Your causes are false, and that statement is utter horseshiat, we could see it again, we just have to change how think about things.


Are you retarded? We were supplying most of the world with most of everything, including ourselves. We weren't a manufacturing powerhouse because of freedom and the American dream, we were a manufacturing, innovatin, fornicatin king because at the time we had basically unlimited markets for our crap, and we were actually the good guys on the world stage. Cars, heavy equipment, military equipment and arms, even farking textiles and toys. That era is over. Get over it. Take your boomer loving ass out of here and get a useful job :p
 
2012-10-03 01:26:41 AM  
SPIEGEL: Don't the rich also give something in return? In Germany, the upper one percent contributes almost a quarter to the tax revenue, and the top ten percent more than half of the taxes. Isn't that an appropriate share?

He asked a legitimate question! Deflect! Deflect!

Stiglitz: I don't know about the German numbers. What I can say is that the top one percent in the United States has an average tax rate of less than 30 percent of their reported income, and the large proportion who take much of their income as capital gains pay far less. And we know that they are not reporting all of their income.

"I'm not going to talk about what % of the taxes they pay because that makes my argument look foolish."

After all, there's a reason that Obama says "14% on 20 million" and not "paid 2.8 million in taxes"
 
2012-10-03 01:26:57 AM  
There's a house on the way to my friend's parents' place where we have our jam space. Big, brand new place on 5 acres. Guy's a Mexican immigrant who eventually started his own landscaping company, and now has this place to raise his family in.

How is that not the farking American Dream?

I have a job, make a decent wage, pay my mortgage and car payment, save a little money and have a beer with friends now and then. I'm more or less in control of my own destiny.

How is that not the farking American Dream?

Jesus Christ, you guys...
 
2012-10-03 01:28:55 AM  

ladyfortuna: NewportBarGuy: Bullsh*t! With luck, determination, and some intelligence you have the best chance to make something of yourself in this country than anywhere else.

3 years ago I was making just a few bucks more than minimum wage. Now I have an awesome job, got promoted 3 times and have more money than I ever had in my life and the future looks nothing but bright. I did all this and all I have is a sh*tty associates degree. Working on a Bachelor's (still) but I'll get that eventually.

The American Dream is still alive and well. Just scale it back a bit. I can't emphasize luck enough, though. Luck plays a HUGE part in life. Call it fate or whatever, but that sh*t is real. It's that combined with showing up and giving everything you've got.

I respect Joe, but he's wrong. This is still an amazing country filled with amazing people capable of awesome things. Yes, the economy is tough right now. We all know that. We've been through it before. We'll come out the other side and we'll move on as we always have.

As much as I like you, I can't help but think you've got some blinders on. Possibly because you've not experienced the same corporate abuse (and sheer bad luck) some of us have; obviously I speculate since I don't know you, but there are plenty of companies which don't give a rat's ass how hard you work and that you showed up every day. My first real job was the only one I've actually enjoyed outside of military stuff (and obviously not all of that). I busted my ass for that company/store, and was rewarded with lies about my chances for promotion, lies about worker's comp when I hurt my back on the job, and lies and deception about later employment stability. Also they hired a moron with a snazzy resume over promoting either myself or my co-worker, both of us having far more experience, knowledge, and especially tact and intelligence. All apparently because he showed up to interview on 9/11 and that impressed someone. (I'm not being bitter when I say that, this gu ...


This.
 
2012-10-03 01:29:19 AM  
Also, future generations will look back on American-style "free market capitalism" as a failed economic experiment. Experience has shown us that it simply does not work, because it is structurally incapable of mitigating the factor of human greed while it rewards those with genuine psychopathic tendencies - particularly the lack of empathy - with success that comes at the expense of others.
 
2012-10-03 01:29:54 AM  
Poor people are poor because Bill Gates created Windows. Makes perfect sense to me!
 
2012-10-03 01:29:56 AM  

sethen320: Shut up.


Forgive me for this, but - you mad bro? U mad?

I can't think of any other reason you would be so mad other than the fact that he's right. What do you do for a living, anyway?
 
2012-10-03 01:32:42 AM  

NewportBarGuy: We have thought it out. We know the way forward. What we need is for people to stop giving a sh*t which side proposes or passes something to help all of us by helping the economy.


It's not about legislation, indeed it's not even really about government. It's how we expect businesses to fit in to society. In the 50s the CEO of GM said that what's good for American is good for GM and vice versa. What he meant was, what's good for the economy is good for business, there was no separating the two. Also there was a sense of businesses being a part of society at large, not separate from it and without any consequences for society at large. It's a way of thinking found in other places, it's just that it's largely disappeared in the US. Which isn't to say it can't come back.
 
2012-10-03 01:34:08 AM  

ladyfortuna: Possibly because you've not experienced the same corporate abuse (and sheer bad luck) some of us have; obviously I speculate since I don't know you, but there are plenty of companies which don't give a rat's ass how hard you work and that you showed up every day.


If I clarify, maybe that will help.

I was speaking of someone going into business for themselves. Anyone subject to a "job creator's" whims, is in for a really rocky ride.

My father was corporate/management for 30 years. He was the one that taught me (in the 1980's) about how quarterly projections were killing long-term growth. They only give a sh*t about the next batch of numbers so they don't make any plans for long term financial viability. Mortgaging today for tomorrow. Exactly what we did by using the SS Trust Fund to finance current operations and sticking a few trillion IOUs in there.

We are a demand now culture. We're f*cking children with the complete inability to sacrifice today for a better tomorrow.

I missed out on first-hand corporate culture, but I know it. I know the service sector, I know private local business, I know government.

I hear exactly what you are saying and can only echo it. I used to read the Harvard Business Review... did so for years. Then I realized that the goddamn thing was basically a manual for how to short-sight everything. Yes, they have some good ideas in there, but the whole culture is FUBAR.

Business used to be about building something. Something that you were proud of and showed off to everyone. Now? It's about who has the bigger bank account.

I mean, money is fine. I don't begrudge any person with money who earned it. Good for you! But, we do have a serious income inequality problem and in a consumer-driven economy... that hurts all of us.
 
2012-10-03 01:37:00 AM  
Oh sure, racistmitter! That economist sounds like a douche. Besides what would a Nobel Peace Prize recipient know about our economy anyway? Wait a minute...
 
2012-10-03 01:39:16 AM  
As sort of another angle on this, the "American Dream" of living in a nice suburb of a popular metro area with two cars, couple kids, time and money for leisure activities, plus saving for college and retirement is out of reach for vast majority without significant inheritance. If you don't inherit money, to get to the point where you can afford a $500k (or more like $1M in better metros) suburban house while also living comfortably is really tough -- you need to be pulling in a couple hundred thousand a year in household income and that often is only achieved after getting into serious student debt.

You can do the math, but the vast majority of people living the American Dream either got there 30 years ago, or they actually can't afford it (house poor), or inherited significant money to get there.

Certainly there are many alternative lifestyles which are arguably as good or better (living rural, living frugally without cars, etc.) but the point is that the idea of a "middle class" really doesn't exist in the US as an achievable "self made" path for most.
 
2012-10-03 01:40:54 AM  

sethen320: Shut up.


Your name is now Sandy, as in your vagina.
 
2012-10-03 01:41:14 AM  

NewportBarGuy: ladyfortuna: Possibly because you've not experienced the same corporate abuse (and sheer bad luck) some of us have; obviously I speculate since I don't know you, but there are plenty of companies which don't give a rat's ass how hard you work and that you showed up every day.

If I clarify, maybe that will help.

I was speaking of someone going into business for themselves. Anyone subject to a "job creator's" whims, is in for a really rocky ride.

I hear exactly what you are saying and can only echo it. I used to read the Harvard Business Review... did so for years. Then I realized that the goddamn thing was basically a manual for how to short-sight everything. Yes, they have some good ideas in there, but the whole culture is FUBAR.


And this is why I like you. I had a feeling maybe I was just misunderstanding you.

My comment still stands to anyone who defends corporations as people, though.
 
2012-10-03 01:43:06 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Bullsh*t! With luck, determination, and some intelligence you have the best chance to make something of yourself in this country than anywhere else.



The stats say you are wrong, upward mobility is not the highest. But emo feelings are what you would rather believe than facts.
 
2012-10-03 01:43:34 AM  

fatassbastard: There's a house on the way to my friend's parents' place where we have our jam space. Big, brand new place on 5 acres. Guy's a Mexican immigrant who eventually started his own landscaping company, and now has this place to raise his family in.

How is that not the farking American Dream?


Yes but how many of his fellow immigrants' backs did he have to break with little or no concern for their actual well-being to achieve that level of success? Several recent studies have shown that in our capitalist system, the people who exhibit the strongest psychopathic tendencies are the ones who are rewarded with success. It is that "I've got mine, screw everybody else" attitude that is necessary for real success in the free-market system. I don't know about you, but I don't like, and will fight against to my last breath, a business culture that rewards those who care the least about whose throat they have to slit open to get ahead. I realize that this is the world we live in, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it or compromise my principals just to "keep up with the Joneses." If this so-called "American Dream" requires me to not give a shiat about my fellow citizen, then I don't want it because it is inherently flawed. If you can sleep well at night knowing that you had to step on others just to climb the ladder, well partner I'd say you're the one with the character flaw, not me.
 
2012-10-03 01:44:15 AM  

NewportBarGuy: It's the main reason we get so many immigrants. Not for the welfare, because they believe they can make it here.



Percentage wise, European countries take in far more immigrants than America.
 
2012-10-03 01:44:20 AM  

sethen320: fredbox: sethen320: Shut up.

Your name is now Sandy, as in your vagina.

Original.


Not here to generate original entertainment for your benefit, sweetcheeks. You have an ignore list. Feel free to use it.
 
2012-10-03 01:44:42 AM  
Anyone ever notice the newer empires decline faster than the older ones and so on?
 
2012-10-03 01:45:45 AM  

FunkOut: Anyone ever notice the newer empires decline faster than the older ones and so on?


Moore's Law, doncha know.
 
2012-10-03 01:47:55 AM  

neongoats: We were supplying most of the world with most of everything,


Except we weren't. By the early 50s places like Germany, France, England etc had their production capacity back and were rocking along. It wasn't like the companies disappeared and quite a few had their production facilities left in tact. The factory that produced the original VW Beetle was a bit beat up, but it was cranking out Beetles by 48. Factories that fared worse were rebuilt by then or just a bit later. The success wasn't because of exports, but rather income growth. Actually all that rebuilding and new equipment while American factories ran on old stuff came to bite America in the ass. When you have textile mills relying on 60 year old looms whose capacity is not even half that of current looms, good luck staying business. And when you're 50 year old steel making equipment can't profitably produce small orders of rarely used steel, yeah there's a lot of customers you won't have.
 
2012-10-03 01:48:09 AM  

FunkOut: Anyone ever notice the newer empires decline faster than the older ones and so on?


Turns move faster later on, just like in Civ.
 
2012-10-03 01:48:46 AM  

sethen320:

Feelings hurt?


Nope.

And in summation, "meh".
 
2012-10-03 01:50:59 AM  

intelligent comment below: NewportBarGuy: Bullsh*t! With luck, determination, and some intelligence you have the best chance to make something of yourself in this country than anywhere else.


The stats say you are wrong, upward mobility is not the highest. But emo feelings are what you would rather believe than facts.


Scroll up a few, he clarified and doesn't deserve abuse (in my opinion, anyway).
 
2012-10-03 01:51:41 AM  

WhyteRaven74: neongoats: We were supplying most of the world with most of everything,

Except we weren't. By the early 50s places like Germany, France, England etc had their production capacity back and were rocking along. It wasn't like the companies disappeared and quite a few had their production facilities left in tact. The factory that produced the original VW Beetle was a bit beat up, but it was cranking out Beetles by 48. Factories that fared worse were rebuilt by then or just a bit later. The success wasn't because of exports, but rather income growth. Actually all that rebuilding and new equipment while American factories ran on old stuff came to bite America in the ass. When you have textile mills relying on 60 year old looms whose capacity is not even half that of current looms, good luck staying business. And when you're 50 year old steel making equipment can't profitably produce small orders of rarely used steel, yeah there's a lot of customers you won't have.


Not to mention we rebuilt a great deal of their industry for them.

We've done such a good job at rebuilding other nations perhaps we'll try it here sometime. Of course, I'm worried that we'll destroy ourselves equally first before that happens. But I'm sure there's enough 3D printers stashed away at Site R that the nanites will have everything right as rain in a couple generations.
 
2012-10-03 01:52:18 AM  

WhyteRaven74: neongoats: We were supplying most of the world with most of everything,

Except we weren't. By the early 50s places like Germany, France, England etc had their production capacity back and were rocking along. It wasn't like the companies disappeared and quite a few had their production facilities left in tact. The factory that produced the original VW Beetle was a bit beat up, but it was cranking out Beetles by 48. Factories that fared worse were rebuilt by then or just a bit later. The success wasn't because of exports, but rather income growth. Actually all that rebuilding and new equipment while American factories ran on old stuff came to bite America in the ass. When you have textile mills relying on 60 year old looms whose capacity is not even half that of current looms, good luck staying business. And when you're 50 year old steel making equipment can't profitably produce small orders of rarely used steel, yeah there's a lot of customers you won't have.


This. America's immediate WWII advantage was undercut quite quickly when for instance Japan and Germany were using more recently built factories postwar. It's hard to update equipment. I still think that China and India will have great advantages by building modern infrastructure leapfrogging 3rd world technology.
 
2012-10-03 01:53:36 AM  
He's certainly about that and certainly one other thing. We don't have a revolutionary spirit in this country and the change won't come from our government where it needs to come from. Basically, we're farked.
 
2012-10-03 01:58:11 AM  

Hale-Bopp: He's certainly about that and certainly one other thing. We don't have a revolutionary spirit in this country and the change won't come from our government where it needs to come from. Basically, we're farked.


The last time America had a revolutionary spirit, it ended with half the south burned. And those revolutionaries were tards.
 
2012-10-03 02:03:06 AM  
I like how they subtly compared the percentage of total tax revenue the German rich pay with the tax the American rich pay as a portion of their income. Those are totally the same thing, guys....and I'm sure an economist wouldn't notice something like that.
 
2012-10-03 02:03:51 AM  

randomjsa: SPIEGEL: Don't the rich also give something in return? In Germany, the upper one percent contributes almost a quarter to the tax revenue, and the top ten percent more than half of the taxes. Isn't that an appropriate share?

He asked a legitimate question! Deflect! Deflect!

Stiglitz: I don't know about the German numbers. What I can say is that the top one percent in the United States has an average tax rate of less than 30 percent of their reported income, and the large proportion who take much of their income as capital gains pay far less. And we know that they are not reporting all of their income.

"I'm not going to talk about what % of the taxes they pay because that makes my argument look foolish."

After all, there's a reason that Obama says "14% on 20 million" and not "paid 2.8 million in taxes"


What's there to deflect? Of course when you control all the wealth you pay most of the taxes. That is obvious. Why don't you grasp that?
 
2012-10-03 02:06:26 AM  

sethen320: Fano: Hale-Bopp: He's certainly about that and certainly one other thing. We don't have a revolutionary spirit in this country and the change won't come from our government where it needs to come from. Basically, we're farked.

The last time America had a revolutionary spirit, it ended with half the south burned. And those revolutionaries were tards.

What revolutionaries are you referring to?


upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size


What are you, from Estonia or something?
 
2012-10-03 02:06:36 AM  
Any education system in this country that isn't pressing the cause of autodidacticism (particularly in middle/HS) is a fraud. My grandparents spent serious school time practicing to perfect an ornate orthography (the appearance of their correspondence is `art' the content? shopping lists...). Currently? Hitting some marks on this or that standardized test. Being `fed' and regurgitating and forgetting isn't any more of a hedge against stupidity and early obsolescence, than was exquisite penmanship. How did the man put it? `luck is the residue of design' and, being stamped to particular `design' specs, instead of doing the drilling and machining oneself, isn't at all conducive to encouraging luck to ride along on one's shoulder.

I was that weird little shiat that broke out in a cold sweat when Gregory Peck (as Captain Ahab) gave `the speech', i.e., "...the little lower layer.." I knew exactly what was meant. To paraphrase Blake `you never know enough, until you know more than enough' (and that ain't gonna happen). Still, after all this time, piling it on and in - not too particular as to subject, either; just never know when (not if) a selective memory dump of the wetware will come in handy (hasn't failed to, yet).

/fark dreaming, hit the `books' (yeah, off lawn, now) and never stop
//not meant to address the systemic inadequacy of the current parade as it passes - just this farker's never having given a shiat about marching along in it (whether living in a car or working for Ashton-Tate)
 
2012-10-03 02:09:20 AM  
It will always be a myth for the lazy.
 
2012-10-03 02:10:33 AM  

Fano: It's hard to update equipment.


But it can be done. Alcoa, the aluminum company, spent lots of money updating their equipment, as often as possible. Not only that, they sold aluminum processing equipment to their own competitors. So Alcoa had no problem competing with anyone else because they made sure they had the latest and greatest stuff and have engineers who do nothing but work on that stuff.
 
2012-10-03 02:11:48 AM  

Crazy Lee: Any education system in this country that isn't pressing the cause of autodidacticism (particularly in middle/HS) is a fraud. My grandparents spent serious school time practicing to perfect an ornate orthography (the appearance of their correspondence is `art' the content? shopping lists...). Currently? Hitting some marks on this or that standardized test. Being `fed' and regurgitating and forgetting isn't any more of a hedge against stupidity and early obsolescence, than was exquisite penmanship. How did the man put it? `luck is the residue of design' and, being stamped to particular `design' specs, instead of doing the drilling and machining oneself, isn't at all conducive to encouraging luck to ride along on one's shoulder.

I was that weird little shiat that broke out in a cold sweat when Gregory Peck (as Captain Ahab) gave `the speech', i.e., "...the little lower layer.." I knew exactly what was meant. To paraphrase Blake `you never know enough, until you know more than enough' (and that ain't gonna happen). Still, after all this time, piling it on and in - not too particular as to subject, either; just never know when (not if) a selective memory dump of the wetware will come in handy (hasn't failed to, yet).

/fark dreaming, hit the `books' (yeah, off lawn, now) and never stop
//not meant to address the systemic inadequacy of the current parade as it passes - just this farker's never having given a shiat about marching along in it (whether living in a car or working for Ashton-Tate)


Well, we want to replicate the achievements of China and India, and so our educational system says FU to creativity and more to rote memorization. GOOD JOB ON THE STANDARDIZED TEST! Now answer a lateral thinking question/ whoops
 
2012-10-03 02:13:11 AM  

Hale-Bopp: He's certainly about that and certainly one other thing. We don't have a revolutionary spirit in this country and the change won't come from our government where it needs to come from. Basically, we're farked.


Weighing into something I know fark-all about (well hey this is Fark), and not commenting on the economics of it at all, in democracies government and the people aren't really different, no matter what politicians try to claim when they're desperate to win votes. On major policy matters, as I think your suggesting is needed here, the solutions are more likely to come from academics, business and community leaders than politicians (preferably all three working together). Historically, the military has also had a role in the US but perhaps are best left out these days.
 
2012-10-03 02:14:29 AM  

david_gaithersburg: It will always be a myth for the lazy.



Says another uneducated poor angry conservative troll
 
2012-10-03 02:17:28 AM  

GORDON: Man On Pink Corner: It must drive people like Stiglitz apeshiat when someone actually does make something of themselves in this country.

A million immigrants are too busy working hard and getting ahead to read the article.


Once they're sent back to Mexico for good, everyone will have a job opportunity (as well as a weight loss opportunity) and the economy will rebound. That done, a large segment of the US population will suddenly become financially secure and attractive enough to fark. This in turn will greatly stimulate the nightclub and sex industry while increasing the demand for party drugs.

The recently deported Latinos will thrive in this environment resulting in a corresponding vast expansion of recreational drug production south of the border. The masses of newly qualified American agricultural laborers will find it more remunerative to pick cannabis for pesos than lettuce for dollars, and will flock to the new dope plantations. This will anger native Latinos who are edged out of jobs by Gringos, and they will demand that working visas be tightly controlled which in turn will result in pushing the work under the table, and there will ensue a lethal hemorrhage of wages back to families in the US.

The already brittle Latin governments will cave under the fiscal pressure and come completely under the thrall of the dope plantations while the US economy will bloom under the double miracle of exporting their unemployment and receiving big, taxable remittances from abroad for zero investment in infrastructure. The DEA will be repurposed to providing security for drug producers (lending a new and gratifying meaning to the phrase, "Drug Enforcement Agency") the Juárez Cartel will gain a seat at the U.N., and 2/3 of the posting members of Fark will find something better to do with their time than crapping at strangers in politics threads.

In short, Utopia.
 
2012-10-03 02:21:14 AM  
"His first personal experience with the issue came when, as a young boy, he asked why his nanny wasn't caring for her own children."

The same reason your car mechanic isn't working on his own car, and your doctor isn't operating on himself. They have jobs.
 
2012-10-03 02:21:46 AM  
What? The magic negro was supposed to fix all this. Right? Right?!
 
2012-10-03 02:26:01 AM  

Poo_Fight: What? The magic negro was supposed to fix all this. Right? Right?!



I bet you have a lot of negro friends
 
2012-10-03 02:26:22 AM  

unyon: NewportBarGuy: Bullsh*t! With luck, determination, and some intelligence you have the best chance to make something of yourself in this country than anywhere else.

3 years ago I was making just a few bucks more than minimum wage. Now I have an awesome job, got promoted 3 times and have more money than I ever had in my life and the future looks nothing but bright. I did all this and all I have is a sh*tty associates degree. Working on a Bachelor's (still) but I'll get that eventually.

The American Dream is still alive and well. Just scale it back a bit. I can't emphasize luck enough, though. Luck plays a HUGE part in life. Call it fate or whatever, but that sh*t is real. It's that combined with showing up and giving everything you've got.

I respect Joe, but he's wrong. This is still an amazing country filled with amazing people capable of awesome things. Yes, the economy is tough right now. We all know that. We've been through it before. We'll come out the other side and we'll move on as we always have.

Good for you. But "the best chance to make something of yourself in this country than anywhere else"? The evidence doesn't support that.

I assume that we're gauging that on one's ability to be upwardly mobile. Income elasticity in the US now falls near the bottom of industrialized nations. If you want to gauge someone's ability to succeed, the best predictor in the US is actually parental income. If you're truly interested in being the land of opportunity, you'll take your collective heads out of your asses.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 600x463]


There's a lot going on in income elasticity and it's easy to read too much into it. The greater the wealth disparity, the farther you have to go to change quintile, and the US is near the top in disparity among industrialized nations. Our poor tend to be poorer (thanks to almost no safety net) and our rich tend to be richer.

I'm not saying what the conclusions are from a more complete look at the problem, but simply looking at quintiles isn't enough. Especially since wealth can be created, and the fact you can fall easier in the rest of the world isn't exactly something to brag about.
 
2012-10-03 02:27:02 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Bullsh*t! With luck, determination, and some intelligence you have the best chance to make something of yourself in this country than anywhere else.

3 years ago I was making just a few bucks more than minimum wage. Now I have an awesome job, got promoted 3 times and have more money than I ever had in my life and the future looks nothing but bright. I did all this and all I have is a sh*tty associates degree. Working on a Bachelor's (still) but I'll get that eventually.

The American Dream is still alive and well. Just scale it back a bit. I can't emphasize luck enough, though. Luck plays a HUGE part in life. Call it fate or whatever, but that sh*t is real. It's that combined with showing up and giving everything you've got.

I respect Joe, but he's wrong. This is still an amazing country filled with amazing people capable of awesome things. Yes, the economy is tough right now. We all know that. We've been through it before. We'll come out the other side and we'll move on as we always have.


Luck is a huge part. Just knowing what opportunities are available is huge.
 
2012-10-03 02:28:15 AM  

intelligent comment below: Poo_Fight: What? The magic negro was supposed to fix all this. Right? Right?!


I bet you have a lot of negro friends


Of course he does, and he can count the number of times they have been in his house.
 
2012-10-03 02:28:47 AM  

DamnYankees: Ennuipoet: Has become? Joseph the country was founded by rich, white, slave holding aristocrats who restricted suffrage to their class. It was always a myth. The economic elite have always given up just enough change to keep them from being hauled to an execution site in a cart.

Bingo. We had a brief period in the years between WWII and Vietnam where both the economy and social freedom was increasing for pretty much everyone. Other than that, the American Dream has always been only partially true for only a part of the population.


People think the game is fixed. It isn't, but neither does it have to be. The table is tilted, and that's enough. I don't know when the rich figured that out, but at some point, the top class realized that just a slight tilt is all it takes to virtually guarantee they stay on top.
 
2012-10-03 02:33:09 AM  

intelligent comment below: Poo_Fight: What? The magic negro was supposed to fix all this. Right? Right?!


I bet you have a lot of negro friends


I think "magic negro" is what his mom called black tar heroin when she was pregnant.
 
2012-10-03 02:33:26 AM  

intelligent comment below: david_gaithersburg: It will always be a myth for the lazy.


Says another uneducated poor angry conservative troll


Awww. You mad lazy bro?
 
2012-10-03 02:34:22 AM  

Fano: intelligent comment below: Poo_Fight: What? The magic negro was supposed to fix all this. Right? Right?!


I bet you have a lot of negro friends

Of course he does, and he can count the number of times they have been in his house.


Whatever, I'm going to throw another vote his way in the blind hope that doing MORE of what HASN'T WORKED will miraculously correct everything just because of his skin color.

It's the truth and you know it.
 
2012-10-03 02:37:45 AM  

vygramul: intelligent comment below: Poo_Fight: What? The magic negro was supposed to fix all this. Right? Right?!


I bet you have a lot of negro friends

I think "magic negro" is what his mom called black tar heroin when she was pregnant.


I you can't make a legitimate point, try to be funny.
 
Displayed 50 of 236 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking

On Twitter





Top Commented
Javascript is required to view headlines in widget.
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report