Cardinals Suck. The only comfort is somewhere Willie McGee is tripping over his lips.

Still bitter from '82.

By the way the PACKERS are having LION for Thanksgiving.

GO PACK GO.

exick:

I beg to differ. Busch stadium is one of the few stadiums left that came from the cookie-cutter multi-purpose stadium that was the craze of the '70's.

Most new ballparks are going retro with their own signatures and quirks.

What? Sports teams generate revenue . . . even if they suck.

love the cardinals, hate busch stadium. no character at all. the stadium, not me. need more vodka. happy thanksg

Also -

...for all the "new-stadium-at-taxpayers-expense" haters out there, I will tell you a little story about a team in a city I am particularly fond of.

Back in '95, the Seattle Mariners all but had their bags packed for Tampa Bay. There was a new stadium initiative on the ballot for the entire state. The Mariners - up to that point - had sucked for 19 straight years. The measure was voted down (albeit by about 50 1/2% to 49 1/2%.)

The state legislature called a special session and pushed it through anyway. People were irate.

Fast forward....

The M's moved into their new park (Safeco Field) in July of '99 and have subsequently be near or at the top of attendance figures every year since then. The place is perpetually packed, and I guarantee you alot of the mofo's in those seats were the same one's biatching about it who now wouldn't trade it for anything. Its a gorgeous park and certainly one of the centerpieces of an already gorgeous city.

I know how you guys feel. Milwaukee did the same crap to us when Miller Park was approved, and now they are saying the stadium tax is going to stay for 10 years more than it was expected. On top of that, the Brewers suk and the management team all the way up to the owner, good ole Bud Selig, are the most Three tooges type of team in the history of pro sports. Makes me proud to be from Milwaukee!

/not really!

Norad:

I figure, today being a holiday, it'll be slow here at Fark. Since I gotsta work, I am going to entertain myself by trying to catch you in the "Submitted links approved" department.

Only 1,134 more to go!

- Happy Thanksgivin' y'all

$48 million is nothing, the stadium will cost 200+, which means most of the money is coming from private sources. The state will reap 10x in benefits, thereby eliminating the deficit.

Not "assinine" at all.

There are anarchist web sites in the Internet that are less liberal than FARK.

The article really does not give enough information.

If by doing this, the state receives increased revenue of greater than 48 million bucks plus the return it could have gotten if it just banked the money then one can make a serious argument that it was worth it.

If the increased sales tax, income tax, etc. and hopefully decreased unemployment payments, etc. don't make up for the $48 million than the state has been had.

I concur...

$48, hell, $200 million is a drop in the bucket these days. The afforemention Safeco Field tab came to a grand total of over $530 million! And you can't knock the smile off the faces of business owners in South Downtown Seattle.

As much as I did not like the public funding of stadiums at the beginning (not that I adore it now), the fact of the matter is, having the sports teams there DOES generate revenue, both publically (taxes, tourism) and privately (wages).

That said, to this day, I would never spend money to go to a professional sporting event and pad the wallets of overpaid and overpampered athletes.

As much as I did not like the public funding of stadiums at the beginning (not that I adore it now), the fact of the matter is, having the sports teams there DOES generate revenue, both publically (taxes, tourism) and privately (wages).

That said, to this day, I would never spend money to go to a professional sporting event and pad the wallets of overpaid and overpampered athletes.

amorianCrowe...

Are you a jock at KATS?

Busch was the best of the cookie-cutters and miles away from the others when they renovated it for baseball only. Putting in the real grass, the area where they displayed the retired numbers, the hand operated score board. All very nice touches, plus you have the arches up at the top of the stadium.

Busch Stadium does suck. Its that last of the cookie cutter collisiums, albeit always the nicest of the bunch. The worst thing about it though is that it is an absolute oven. Field temps in the summer regularly top 110. And in as a good a baseball town as St. Louis, the fans and the team deserve a new stadium. Also, I should point out that building the new sports venues in downtown Houston sparked the revitalization of downtown.

Less02:

You are correct, sir!

Are you familiar with my fair radio station?

Governor Ventura's Speech on the Twins' new stadium

That about sums up my opinion on the topic. Oh yeah, and baseball sucks.

"They want it, they just don't know it yet."

hmm.

The thing of it is, the Cardinals already draw 3 million a season in Busch. Why do they need a new park? Must be the fat cat business boys and their sky box needs.

48 Mil is impossible cheap though, unless they are 1) building it out of recycled milk cartons, or 2) business is ponying up most of the tab. Or the ever popular 3), lowballing the estimate to bait-and-switch the public later. Thats what they did at Safeco.

I hope we (Mariners) still draw 3 mil in 10 years, ask someone in Cleveland or Colorado what happens once the newness factor of the park wears off.

Here's how it's a conservative/liberal issue:

If the public pays for the park, the public ought to receive the revenue, but instead, the revenue goes to the owners and players. Private enterprise funded with public money is a cornerstone of the "conservative" agenda. Cons argue that profits are the reward for taking the risk of an investment, however public funding virtually eliminates risk.

Some rich farker wants to start a business (or a sports team) more power to him, but why should my tax dollars go to ensure that he doesn't lose money? Tax abatements, free infrastrucure, and other corporate welfare are acceptable to cons, but universal health care, public housing, and individual welfare are considered "handouts."

The big fat double standard lives. Class warfare ensues.

These shakedowns by pro sports franchises are just schemes by large businesses (in collusion with inept or corrupt politicians) to steal from ignorant taxpayers (i.e. you and me).

Check out the SkyDome sometime.

(trying to recall correctly...) Remember what happened in Arizona? The voters shot down the new stadium plan and then the city council got together for a secret midnight vote and pushed the referendum through anyway. Mmmmm, democracy.

I was pissed about Seattle doing it.. but it's nice to know our city council isn't the only one in the pockets of big corporations.

Must find a way to ban this shiat.

I wanna' be a rich-type person whose business is subsidized by the taxpayer.

I love wealth trandferrance from the commoners to the already-rich. It is a cherished American tradition and ensures the better classes maintain their proper lofty position on the socio-economic ladder.

Cards should bring back Tino Martinez.

Pffffft yea right.

how can we raise money or find of ways to pay for things when our country is a huge deficit.

what i mean is how can Pres. Bush or any other canidate raise money for a campaign when money is needed else where. Bush raised what like 30 millions when he ran for president. but when people biatch about the deficit we could simple raise money to re-pay what we owe.

rant off

Don't the only useful Cardinals play in Arizona?

And shiat, Jesse said something useful, pronounced the words correctly, and retired after one term. Maybe he was better than I thought.

Dammit!!!! I work for this stupid state, and they have cut back the budget for education so bad that they're talking about cutting positions. I am SOOOOOOOOO proud to live in Missouri, which, if you stress the first syllable instead of the second, gives you a much clearer picture.

Farking asshats.

Better than the 600 million + that the corrupt Chicago administration approved for the new Soldier Field. Nice, use our hard earned taxpayer money to subsidize millionaire game-players and their smug owners.

This is even funnier because the where I work just got 500,000 out of them in back taxes, the company email was entitled "You can get blood from a stone"

I could understand funding a new stadium if the team was publicly owned (Green Bay for example), but if I wanted to buy, say, the Minnesota Vikings and I wanted a new stadium, I'd just pony up the money myself. If the owner's got the money, why shouldn't they pay for it?

That said, new stadiums are great and all, but why are they costing over $500 million nowadays?

48million given to build new stadium...... Meanwhile 150000 homeless go hungry one more year

Another St. Louisan here, and while I've not been paying much tax lately, I'm not interested in putting my tax money towards new venures for sporting events that I never, ever watch.

For several years i have been forced to pay for the Brewer's stadium (through sales tax) even though I'm not a baseball fan and don't even live in Milwaukee county. Brewer management promised more money spent on players and a competetive team. Since the new stadium was built they've steadily gotten worse. Next year they're slashing payroll 25%. We seriously got the shaft on this one.

I can never understand why providing venues for private, for-profit sports teams is a service of the state. Make the money grubbing bastards pay for their own goddamn stadium.


2003-11-27 12:17:03 PM amoricanCrowe

Also -

...for all the "new-stadium-at-taxpayers-expense" haters out there, I will tell you a little story about a team in a city I am particularly fond of.

Back in '95, the Seattle Mariners all but had their bags packed for Tampa Bay. There was a new stadium initiative on the ballot for the entire state. The Mariners - up to that point - had sucked for 19 straight years. The measure was voted down (albeit by about 50 1/2% to 49 1/2%.)

The state legislature called a special session and pushed it through anyway. People were irate.

Fast forward....

The M's moved into their new park (Safeco Field) in July of '99 and have subsequently be near or at the top of attendance figures every year since then. The place is perpetually packed, and I guarantee you alot of the mofo's in those seats were the same one's biatching about it who now wouldn't trade it for anything. Its a gorgeous park and certainly one of the centerpieces of an already gorgeous city.

I am a native Washingtonian, and I think it is just great that the Mariners are doing exceedingly well, and ticket sales are through the roof. But that does not mean that the state should have spent huge amounts of money on the Safeco field. MLB is a business like any other. It is not the role of the state to prop it up with gigantic amounts of taxpayer money.

Do you know how heavily in debt Washinton State is now? It's terrible. There are no COLAs for state workers anymore. Things such as state parks are gettting cut left and right. A stadium is not something that warrants many, many millions of dollars in state funding.

Think of it like the owner is justifying the state paying for it by trying to tell the elected officials that by spending this money it will make money for the state.Then again there is a reason why tourism in my state is 49th in the nation, only being above Delaware.

There's a Stanford guy, zimbalist is his name I think, and he's done tons of economic research into the whether sports teams generate revenue for their cities. Simply put, the answer is a resounding NO.

Certainly hasn't been true in Wilkes-Barre. The old people got in a hissy fit over the arena here, mostly because scare mongerers told them their no one would go there and it would lost money and taxes would go up. Anyway,they get the place built using state money (which, if it wasn't going to be used to build an arena, was going somehere else) and a hotel tax.

And, the place has been sold out for over 100 straight games, an AHL record, and the land next to it has been massively developed.

"Who wants to see me Knock a few Dingers!?"

Did anyone else, upon reading the description, think "the Cardinals aren't in Missouri..." and then realize that it was the baseball team, not the football team?

/slow today

Good for St. Louis. These sorts of things usually pay off big time in the long run.

well try and tell Slough Borough Council to build a stadium for my home town soccer team. We'd be lucky to draw 400 fans a game and only want a 6000 capacity stadium to conform to the FA (engish soccers governing body) rules for safety etc. and can we get a stadium that'd only cost 5 - 10 million? Don't think so