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(Russia Today)   OWS = Fail: Occupy Wall Street activists fight with Ben & Jerry's founder over The Illuminator   (rt.com) divider line 152
    More: Fail, Ben & Jerry, Illuminator, cookie dough, activists fight  
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8155 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 12:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-02 12:28:27 PM
"He didn't want to have to bother with the messy part of being in a democracy," Mark Read, the activist who claims to have initially proposed The Illuminator idea, tells DNAInfo.com.

"He's a 1 percenter," Read, 46, adds to the website, "telling the 99 percent, 'I'm your boss.'"

STFU, you entitled coonts.
 
2012-10-02 12:28:37 PM
biting the hand that fed them.

shocking that a bunch of whiney brats would do that.
 
2012-10-02 12:29:30 PM
they needed another van.

then they'd be men with ven.

/obscure?
 
2012-10-02 12:30:11 PM
But the world is black and white! I'm a good guy 'cause I haven't had much financial success! He's a bad guy because he has!"
 
2012-10-02 12:30:54 PM
Wait, the Illuminati are behind OWS? THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.
 
2012-10-02 12:30:55 PM
OWS just went full retard, never go full retard
 
2012-10-02 12:30:58 PM
i1079.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-02 12:32:11 PM
OWS activists acting like immature douchebags? What a surprise.
 
2012-10-02 12:32:24 PM
So he walked away because the movement still can't decide what they all agree on?
 
2012-10-02 12:32:34 PM
It's ok... because OWSers have swag... am I doing it right?
 
2012-10-02 12:32:55 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that OWS never really had the kind of corporate, political or media outlet backing that the Tea Party has.

Yes there are few wealthy people here and there but it does not have systemic support.
 
2012-10-02 12:33:46 PM
i847.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-02 12:34:28 PM
"He's a 1 percenter," Read, 46, adds to the website, "telling the 99 percent, 'I'm your boss.'"

Yeah!!! Yeah!!! Fark those Vermont Fascists!!!

www.thedailystar.net
 
2012-10-02 12:34:35 PM

crab66: One thing to keep in mind is that OWS never really had the kind of corporate, political or media outlet backing that the Tea Party has.

Yes there are few wealthy people here and there but it does not have systemic support.


yeah, grassroots populist uprisings tend to work that way. Looks like the populus ran out of vacation days.
 
2012-10-02 12:34:54 PM
Why do they keep saying they are the 99% when only about 1% of the 99% actually are a part of the demonstrations?
 
2012-10-02 12:35:57 PM

Arkanaut: Wait, the Illuminati are behind OWS? THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.


fnord
 
2012-10-02 12:36:14 PM

hovsm: Why do they keep saying they are the 99% when only about 1% of the 99% actually are a part of the demonstrations?


Because... Hold on, Dancing with the Stars is on.
 
2012-10-02 12:36:50 PM
that's pretty farking immature by them. You know what, all american's really suck.
 
2012-10-02 12:38:20 PM

links136: that's pretty farking immature by them. You know what, all american's really suck, eh.


FTFY
 
2012-10-02 12:38:53 PM
Cohen should run them over with the truck when he gets it back.
 
2012-10-02 12:39:10 PM
If the Illuminator isn't an American Gladiators style obstacle course I'm going to be very displeased
 
2012-10-02 12:39:16 PM
Somebody should have proof read their article before posting.

/Pussy Riot.
 
2012-10-02 12:41:45 PM
Wow, Mark Read sounds like a real asshole. What a surprise.
 
2012-10-02 12:44:10 PM

Science_Guy_3.14159: OWS just went full retard, never go full retard


It's time for them to merge with their tea party brethren and form a loudmouthed Voltron of stupidity.
 
2012-10-02 12:46:14 PM
The real question here is...will bunny ears be involved?
 
2012-10-02 12:46:16 PM

hovsm: Why do they keep saying they are the 99% when only about 1% of the 99% actually are a part of the demonstrations?


Because "A tiny handful of people with lots of time on their hands who are pissed off about various social and economic issues but don't really have any viable solutions to those issues and who are largely responsible for their own lot in life but would rather blame capitalists as scapegoats" doesn't have the same ring to it?
 
2012-10-02 12:46:54 PM
And this is why OWS keeps stumbling. Because they can't stay on the broad appeal message of the income gap and the erosion of the middle class, instead it becomes a mob shooting the political message du jour.

I'd actually agree with Cohen, I don't really carry about Assange or Pussy Riot and if I was donating money for activism regarding the consolidation of wealth I'd be pissed to see it used for a Free Assange movement.
 
2012-10-02 12:47:44 PM
RIP Tom n Jerry
 
2012-10-02 12:48:09 PM
Restrictions on free speech in my Illuminator? It's more likely than you think.
 
2012-10-02 12:49:30 PM

Lundyn: The real question here is...will bunny ears be involved?


Hey-oh
 
2012-10-02 12:49:32 PM

Rhames: RIP Tom n Jerry


i.ytimg.com

sad
 
2012-10-02 12:49:39 PM

hovsm: Why do they keep saying they are the 99% when only about 1% of the 99% actually are a part of the demonstrations?


Because "we are the 47 percent" doesn't have the same ring to it.
 
2012-10-02 12:49:40 PM
OWS = Fail.
No more details needed.
 
2012-10-02 12:50:49 PM
One of the reasons the Iraq War protests never got the traction the Vietnam ones did was that the far left (no, the real far left, not the people Republicans like to imagine are far left) would cram all kinds of shiat into the protest. Instead of focusing on JUST the war, there were gay rights, immigration rights, anti-NAFTA, fair trade, transgender, pay equity - you name it - signs and people who would take the podium and try to get the crowd fired up over their pet issue instead of focusing on the broadly unpopular war.

I attended two of the protests in 2002 and left each halfway through with a sense of "What the fark was that"?
 
2012-10-02 12:51:56 PM
Say what you will about the Tea Party, but they never went after their Ben n Jerry's benefactors. And they shower.
 
2012-10-02 12:52:33 PM

links136: that's pretty farking immature by them. You know what, all american's really suck.


Hey fark you buddy. I'm the 1%!
 
2012-10-02 12:53:12 PM
Waahhhh we can't have things exactly the way we want it so we're going to biatch and cry and make a stink.

Sort of like how our huge student loans that we knew we were borrowing aren't paying themselves and nobody cares that we're saddled with them.

Cry me a farking river, I paid mine off with my at-the-time-barely-20k a year salary. Know why? I didn't borrow outside of my means or bank on grabbing that 60k a year job that everyone always expects to get right out of college and no one ever does.

I can't stand that entitlement bull. I suppose a lot of what OWS is about, but that shiat right there... ugh.

(Which has nothing to do with the Illuminator, I just went off on a tangent.)
 
2012-10-02 12:53:13 PM

crab66: One thing to keep in mind is that OWS never really had the kind of corporate, political or media outlet backing that the Tea Party has.

Yes there are few wealthy people here and there but it does not have systemic support.


So its someone else fault it failed? Convenient. They were all over the media for weeks, didn't you see the interviews? But everytime one persone was interviewes and said what they were all about, the next guy came along said that the last guy was wrong and then went to explain his version of what they were all about. There was no coherent message. But you keep blaming, something will stick sooner or later
 
2012-10-02 12:54:43 PM
how do they have so much time off from work?
 
2012-10-02 12:55:13 PM

Nightsweat: One of the reasons the Iraq War protests never got the traction the Vietnam ones did was that the far left (no, the real far left, not the people Republicans like to imagine are far left) would cram all kinds of shiat into the protest. Instead of focusing on JUST the war, there were gay rights, immigration rights, anti-NAFTA, fair trade, transgender, pay equity - you name it - signs and people who would take the podium and try to get the crowd fired up over their pet issue instead of focusing on the broadly unpopular war.

I attended two of the protests in 2002 and left each halfway through with a sense of "What the fark was that"?


Once you let Anarchists in your protest, your protest has lost all meaning. All those dipsh*ts want to do is break windows.
 
2012-10-02 12:55:20 PM

Nightsweat: One of the reasons the Iraq War protests never got the traction the Vietnam ones did was that the far left (no, the real far left, not the people Republicans like to imagine are far left) would cram all kinds of shiat into the protest. Instead of focusing on JUST the war, there were gay rights, immigration rights, anti-NAFTA, fair trade, transgender, pay equity - you name it - signs and people who would take the podium and try to get the crowd fired up over their pet issue instead of focusing on the broadly unpopular war.

I attended two of the protests in 2002 and left each halfway through with a sense of "What the fark was that"?


I ran into Code Pink once. That one group came closer to turning me into a pro war Chickenhawk than all the American Thinker/Project for a New American Century/etc bullshiat I ever read.
 
2012-10-02 12:55:23 PM

Science_Guy_3.14159: OWS just went full retard, never go full retard



Just?

They've been full retard since day 1.
 
2012-10-02 12:55:42 PM
So Ben donates for a specific cause and they are upset because they tried to hijack it for other causes of their own. So if someone donates to Breast Cancer research Read feels it wold be fine if they decided to use to use the money for funding the Taliban or something? Simply because they say so? How typical of left and right wing extremists. Force their view and set of rules on everybody else and then claim it is an exercise in freedom.
 
2012-10-02 12:57:28 PM
Pay for your own Attention Whore Van, then, you unemployed shiftless bearded jackasses!
 
2012-10-02 12:57:49 PM

Nightsweat: One of the reasons the Iraq War protests never got the traction the Vietnam ones did was that the far left (no, the real far left, not the people Republicans like to imagine are far left) would cram all kinds of shiat into the protest. Instead of focusing on JUST the war, there were gay rights, immigration rights, anti-NAFTA, fair trade, transgender, pay equity - you name it - signs and people who would take the podium and try to get the crowd fired up over their pet issue instead of focusing on the broadly unpopular war.

I attended two of the protests in 2002 and left each halfway through with a sense of "What the fark was that"?


This is how it was back in 1990/1991 with the Persian Gulf War. At my college, the protesters built a tent city that attracted this motley crew of social issues. Eventually, after the war was over, Tent City lived on to continue to support other social causes... until it was declared a health hazard and removed by the University.

Jeez, it's like focus people... focus...
 
2012-10-02 12:58:05 PM

Hagenhatesyouall: Science_Guy_3.14159: OWS just went full retard, never go full retard


Just?

They've been full retard since day 1.


It was going good at first, and then it ended up basically becoming a treehouse club instead of an all-welcome group. Then came the drums and the unclear messages and bleh.
 
2012-10-02 12:58:20 PM

splohn: And they shower.


Granted, they have to use a rag on a stick...
 
2012-10-02 01:00:05 PM

crab66: One thing to keep in mind is that OWS never really had the kind of corporate, political or media outlet backing that the Tea Party has.

Yes there are few wealthy people here and there but it does not have systemic support.


I can't imagine why a movement targeting corporations wouldn't have any corporate support.
 
2012-10-02 01:00:20 PM

WarszawaScream: Waahhhh we can't have things exactly the way we want it so we're going to biatch and cry and make a stink.

Sort of like how our huge student loans that we knew we were borrowing aren't paying themselves and nobody cares that we're saddled with them.

Cry me a farking river, I paid mine off with my at-the-time-barely-20k a year salary. Know why? I didn't borrow outside of my means or bank on grabbing that 60k a year job that everyone always expects to get right out of college and no one ever does.

I can't stand that entitlement bull. I suppose a lot of what OWS is about, but that shiat right there... ugh.

When did "I did it, so can you" become "I did it, and that's the way all of you have to do it?" And, who honestly thinks that the pricing for college tuition is done by any sort of ethical, or even rational, process? What decade did you graduate from college in? Wait, wait, are you good with a jump shot? And, please, quit throwing around "entitlement" like it means anything other than "something somebody else gets instead of ME BUT I DESURVE IT MOAR!!!!!"
 
2012-10-02 01:02:11 PM
I wouldn't necessarily call it a failure. It did draw attention to the real problem we have.

Now, the solution?.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-02 01:02:18 PM
A great delivery system with nothing to deliver. 
makezineblog.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-02 01:02:47 PM
you = fail
 
2012-10-02 01:03:01 PM
wow, wow, WHOA. What is with all the HATE on OWS? What the hell has happened to FARK?
 
2012-10-02 01:03:36 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: splohn: And they shower.

Granted, they have to use a rag on a stick...


Lol
 
2012-10-02 01:04:24 PM

Virgil_Lee_Nobody: wow, wow, WHOA. What is with all the HATE on OWS? What the hell has happened to FARK?


Hey, when they make that afternoon shift manager at the Dairy Queen money, a lotta these rugged individuals here don't want their success punished.
 
2012-10-02 01:04:36 PM

Virgil_Lee_Nobody: wow, wow, WHOA. What is with all the HATE on OWS? What the hell has happened to FARK?


I'm not hating OWS in general, I am hating the jackasses from TFA who were given a vehicle to use for OWS-related matters and decided to stamp their little feet and demand that they be able to use it for pet projects. That's not how the contract works.
 
2012-10-02 01:04:38 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-02 01:04:57 PM

Tat'dGreaser: Once you let Anarchists in your protest, your protest has lost all meaning. All those dipsh*ts want to do is break windows.


I'm not convinced those black block types really exist outside Seattle and G8 protests, it really seems like a lot of false flags
 
2012-10-02 01:06:55 PM

zedster: I'm not convinced those black block types really exist outside Seattle and G8 protests, it really seems like a lot of false flags


I don't have the time to look it up, but I remember articles about them showing up at OWS protests. Hell I think even the Daily Show talked about them showing up at Code Pink anti-war protests. They're opportunists with no agenda other than causing destruction for the sake of causing destruction.
 
2012-10-02 01:08:01 PM

zedster: Tat'dGreaser: Once you let Anarchists in your protest, your protest has lost all meaning. All those dipsh*ts want to do is break windows.

I'm not convinced those black block types really exist outside Seattle and G8 protests, it really seems like a lot of false flags


I think you are more likely to get the guys who talk an anarchist game all day while sitting on their ass in the tent city. They're all talk, but they're repulsive enough to drive off the more moderate folk.
 
2012-10-02 01:08:35 PM
I know how we'll solve problems! We'll go camping downtown and blog about it, then we'll have some rich people buy us a novelty van with some overhead projectors built in.


YOUR SOLUTIONS ARE LAUGHABLE, MISDIRECTED AND WORTHLESS. THAT IS WHY YOU ACCOMPLISH NOTHING.
 
2012-10-02 01:09:15 PM

Virgil_Lee_Nobody: wow, wow, WHOA. What is with all the HATE on OWS? What the hell has happened to FARK?


It's like a tidal wave. We're on the Conservative wave right now, then we'll move back to the Liberal Wave, and then to the "BIE/Bacon/Beer threads" wave.
 
2012-10-02 01:09:55 PM
"He didn't want to have to bother with the messy part of being in a democracy," Mark Read, the activist who claims to have initially proposed The Illuminator idea, tells DNAInfo.com.
"He's a 1 percenter," Read, 46, adds to the website, "telling the 99 percent, 'I'm your boss.'"
"After we put in all those hours and put ourselves at risk as activists, we had [Cohen], who had not been in the van, come in and critique us," Read says. "To a person, I think we all feel kind of betrayed and disappointed."

----------------------------------------

Smh. He put $65,000 of HIS money up and the very reputation of his company on the line to help your broke ass and this is the thanks he gets? YOU should be the boss because you sat in the street when you didn't have a job to go to anyway? Man, I was ALL for the 99% movement and I know one entitled little bastard isn't representative of the entire movement but damn, this is terrible.
 
2012-10-02 01:10:04 PM

CygnusDarius: It's like a tidal wave. We're on the Conservative wave right now, then we'll move back to the Liberal Wave, and then to the "BIE/Bacon/Beer threads" wave.


Conservative wave? What Fark have you been reading?

OWS was never popular on Fark, even with left leaning people.
 
2012-10-02 01:10:40 PM
"The 1%" has long been just a generic term for "whoever I don't like" for the OWS types.
 
2012-10-02 01:12:07 PM

Tat'dGreaser: CygnusDarius: It's like a tidal wave. We're on the Conservative wave right now, then we'll move back to the Liberal Wave, and then to the "BIE/Bacon/Beer threads" wave.

Conservative wave? What Fark have you been reading?

OWS was never popular on Fark, even with left leaning people.


ummm... you should check out the Poli tab.
 
2012-10-02 01:12:45 PM

skullkrusher: ummm... you should check out the Poli tab.


Oh hell no, I'll never go there
 
2012-10-02 01:13:16 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: "He didn't want to have to bother with the messy part of being in a democracy," Mark Read, the activist who claims to have initially proposed The Illuminator idea, tells DNAInfo.com.
"He's a 1 percenter," Read, 46, adds to the website, "telling the 99 percent, 'I'm your boss.'"
"After we put in all those hours and put ourselves at risk as activists, we had [Cohen], who had not been in the van, come in and critique us," Read says. "To a person, I think we all feel kind of betrayed and disappointed."
----------------------------------------

Smh. He put $65,000 of HIS money up and the very reputation of his company on the line to help your broke ass and this is the thanks he gets? YOU should be the boss because you sat in the street when you didn't have a job to go to anyway? Man, I was ALL for the 99% movement and I know one entitled little bastard isn't representative of the entire movement but damn, this is terrible.


why do you hate Democracy, DRO? It's like that time I asked to borrow your car to pick up my mom at the airport and you were all "sure thing, man" and then you got pissed that my mom and I voted to enter it into a demolition derby. Farking fascist
 
2012-10-02 01:13:54 PM
skullkrushe: "He's a 1 percenter," Read, 46, adds to the website, "telling the 99 percent, 'I'm your boss.'"

He also started his company from scratch. Actually, the first time around, they started with $12,000 and closed shop a couple of months later.

I mean, isn't that the dream, to start a company from practically nothing and grow it into a multi million dollar company?

hovsm: Why do they keep saying they are the 99% when only about 1% of the 99% actually are a part of the demonstrations?

As a former member of the 80% who is now a part of the 15% I ask, WTF are those dudes problems?
 
2012-10-02 01:14:07 PM

Tat'dGreaser: skullkrusher: ummm... you should check out the Poli tab.

Oh hell no, I'll never go there


beyond the Entertainment Tab, thar be dragons
 
2012-10-02 01:14:16 PM

EyeballKid: WarszawaScream: Waahhhh we can't have things exactly the way we want it so we're going to biatch and cry and make a stink.

Sort of like how our huge student loans that we knew we were borrowing aren't paying themselves and nobody cares that we're saddled with them.

Cry me a farking river, I paid mine off with my at-the-time-barely-20k a year salary. Know why? I didn't borrow outside of my means or bank on grabbing that 60k a year job that everyone always expects to get right out of college and no one ever does.

I can't stand that entitlement bull. I suppose a lot of what OWS is about, but that shiat right there... ugh.
When did "I did it, so can you" become "I did it, and that's the way all of you have to do it?" And, who honestly thinks that the pricing for college tuition is done by any sort of ethical, or even rational, process? What decade did you graduate from college in? Wait, wait, are you good with a jump shot? And, please, quit throwing around "entitlement" like it means anything other than "something somebody else gets instead of ME BUT I DESURVE IT MOAR!!!!!"


I meant "support", not "suppose". Not feeling too well today so my typing skills are lacking.

And uh... if you're trying to say that borrowing money and then not paying is back is A-OK... well. It's not that *I* did it and that's what everyone has to do. It's that NOT doing so is, well, stealing.

Trying to justify stealing with "I didn't know what I was doing at the time" or "I thought I'd be able to pay this back but I can't so you should just absolve me of it"... I don't need to explain it.

And I was class of 2004. Tuition wasn't cheap.
 
2012-10-02 01:14:58 PM

Tat'dGreaser: CygnusDarius: It's like a tidal wave. We're on the Conservative wave right now, then we'll move back to the Liberal Wave, and then to the "BIE/Bacon/Beer threads" wave.

Conservative wave? What Fark have you been reading?

OWS was never popular on Fark, even with left leaning people.


Well, if you want a quick and dirty way to put the terror -actual 'I can't trust my bodyguard' terror- on the bankers, here's an idea I've posted before:

The idea revolves around a guillotine. Not a wooden one, but one made of the best stainless steel available, (and a metal chord to support the blade). Highly durable, and it must be bolted to the ground and/or simply planted there so it needs nothing short of a few small explosions or demolition crew to get it outta there. You install this in Wall Street, in the wee hours of the morning. You'll need to work fast. Also, this guillotine has a LCD screen, and a small motor connected to the chord. There'll be cops surrounding the thing, a few tourists taking pictures, Fox news will dismiss this or be freaked out about this, the whole works.

Every time a politician, political commentator, or a banker says anything remotely stupid/infuriating, the LCD screen turns on, plays the bit, and the motor raises the blade a few inches high. Watch the Establishment go nuts.
 
2012-10-02 01:15:14 PM

skullkrusher: Tat'dGreaser: skullkrusher: ummm... you should check out the Poli tab.

Oh hell no, I'll never go there

beyond the Entertainment Tab, thar be dragons


You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
 
2012-10-02 01:15:20 PM
skullkrusher: ummm... you should check out the Poli tab.

There is no politics tab.

lordargent.com

// adblock ... not just for ads
 
2012-10-02 01:15:24 PM
I feel I'm part of the 34.8%.
 
2012-10-02 01:15:42 PM

skullkrusher: beyond the Entertainment Tab, thar be dragons


Exactly, I can deal with crazy celebrity crap but that politics page is uncharted territory of villainy and dipsh*ttery
 
2012-10-02 01:17:16 PM

The Goddamn Batman: skullkrusher: Tat'dGreaser: skullkrusher: ummm... you should check out the Poli tab.

Oh hell no, I'll never go there

beyond the Entertainment Tab, thar be dragons

You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.


it's gotten a bit better since DRO and I are maintabbing it with the hoi polloi at the moment
 
2012-10-02 01:17:39 PM

Tat'dGreaser: skullkrusher: beyond the Entertainment Tab, thar be dragons

Exactly, I can deal with crazy celebrity crap but that politics page is uncharted territory of villainy and dipsh*ttery


And the Video tab is a wasteland where there's nothing but irradiated Water, super mutants, and Black Mountain Radio.
 
2012-10-02 01:17:40 PM

WarszawaScream: And uh... if you're trying to say that borrowing money and then not paying is back is A-OK... well. It's not that *I* did it and that's what everyone has to do. It's that NOT doing so is, well, stealing.

Trying to justify stealing with "I didn't know what I was doing at the time" or "I thought I'd be able to pay this back but I can't so you should just absolve me of it"... I don't need to explain it.


Seriously? Look at the return on Investment of a typical state college degree, considering the typical amount made by graduates throughout their careers, with the few lotto winners and pro ball players taken out of the equation; it's not the students doing the thieving.
 
2012-10-02 01:18:56 PM
You will join OWS eventually.
 
2012-10-02 01:19:10 PM
The true economic injustice perpetrated by the 1% has little to do with the stock market. As random and vegas-like as the market is, it can only be rigged by the rich so much. The 1% are not fixing the stock market as much as they're clamping down on any job-creating innovation that threatens their superiority via the patent/copyright/trademark legal mess. If you don't believe me, look at Apple's history of lawsuits, it's very long.

If you want to do some economic good, protest the patent office. Let those rich people compete on a legally even surface and you'll watch new technologies undercut their position faster than they can say Rolls Royce.
 
2012-10-02 01:21:24 PM

Tat'dGreaser: skullkrusher: beyond the Entertainment Tab, thar be dragons

Exactly, I can deal with crazy celebrity crap but that politics page is uncharted territory of villainy and dipsh*ttery


We should all remember the wisdom from the Devil's Dictionary:

Politics: A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.
 
2012-10-02 01:21:29 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: He put $65,000 of HIS money up and the very reputation of his company on the line to help your broke ass and this is the thanks he gets?


It's not his company anymore and hasn't been for over 12 years. Ben and Jerry sold the company to Unilever in 2000. Neither man holds any position with the company, nor are they involved in any way with it's operations. They are only namesakes.
 
2012-10-02 01:21:34 PM

EyeballKid: Seriously? Look at the return on Investment of a typical state college degree, considering the typical amount made by graduates throughout their careers, with the few lotto winners and pro ball players taken out of the equation; it's not the students doing the thieving.


the average annual state school tuition is $8,244. If you can't make $32,000 (about $710 a year assuming a 45 year post grad career) more over the course of a lifetime with a college degree than with a HS diploma you probably should have forgone college and taken an arc welding class
 
2012-10-02 01:24:10 PM

skullkrusher: EyeballKid: Seriously? Look at the return on Investment of a typical state college degree, considering the typical amount made by graduates throughout their careers, with the few lotto winners and pro ball players taken out of the equation; it's not the students doing the thieving.

the average annual state school tuition is $8,244. If you can't make $32,000 (about $710 a year assuming a 45 year post grad career) more over the course of a lifetime with a college degree than with a HS diploma you probably should have forgone college and taken an arc welding class


And, what's the interest on that? OK, and if one bad year happens, where you miss some payments, you're spent paying off the added interest over an even longer period of time, and good luck finding that 45 year post-graduation career.

*Of course, none of this applies if you can run 40 yards quickly and/or have a fantastic jump shot.
 
2012-10-02 01:24:23 PM

CygnusDarius: Tat'dGreaser: CygnusDarius: It's like a tidal wave. We're on the Conservative wave right now, then we'll move back to the Liberal Wave, and then to the "BIE/Bacon/Beer threads" wave.

Conservative wave? What Fark have you been reading?

OWS was never popular on Fark, even with left leaning people.

Well, if you want a quick and dirty way to put the terror -actual 'I can't trust my bodyguard' terror- on the bankers, here's an idea I've posted before:

The idea revolves around a guillotine. Not a wooden one, but one made of the best stainless steel available, (and a metal chord to support the blade). Highly durable, and it must be bolted to the ground and/or simply planted there so it needs nothing short of a few small explosions or demolition crew to get it outta there. You install this in Wall Street, in the wee hours of the morning. You'll need to work fast. Also, this guillotine has a LCD screen, and a small motor connected to the chord. There'll be cops surrounding the thing, a few tourists taking pictures, Fox news will dismiss this or be freaked out about this, the whole works.

Every time a politician, political commentator, or a banker says anything remotely stupid/infuriating, the LCD screen turns on, plays the bit, and the motor raises the blade a few inches high. Watch the Establishment go nuts.


Once you clean yourself up after that mental wank, you'll realize that won't help. Or even ever happen.  Even if you gloss over the glaring issue: Who decides what is stupid? A vote? Benevolent overlord who somehow isn't part of the dreaded 1%?
 
2012-10-02 01:26:04 PM

CygnusDarius: (and a metal chord to support the blade).


May I suggest drop D?
 
2012-10-02 01:26:09 PM
This is actually a problem with our limited number of political "parties" here in the US -- that each party has a collection of values and it is unlikely you agree with the whole bundle.

For example, a union guy may be against gay marriage, or an anti-immigration person might be for socialized medicine, etc.

So you end up with no political party that can really represent you. This then creates the effect that the moral issues usually become the defining issues -- i.e. you'll vote based on your stance on abortion or gay marriage no matter how adverse you are to the rest of the platform.

I really think the ideal solution would be that we should actually vote for the head of each Department. In other words, vote for the head of the Department of Health based on your views on health issues, vote for the head of the Department of Homeland Security based on your views on security issues, and so forth. Of course that would be a fundamentally different system so I'm just dreaming ...

But within the current system, we really need more political parties so we can better dial in our votes. If you care about environment you could vote based on that, care about taxes you could vote based on that, etc.

Anyway, this is relevant to the article because it is entirely unfair of the OWS to assume that someone that supports one of their issues (wealth gap) would have to support the remainder.
 
2012-10-02 01:26:28 PM

Tat'dGreaser: skullkrusher: ummm... you should check out the Poli tab.

Oh hell no, I'll never go there


Abandon all hope, ye who venture there?

/Anarchy Rules... wait, isn't that an oxymoron?
 
2012-10-02 01:27:27 PM

syberpud: Once you clean yourself up after that mental wank, you'll realize that won't help. Or even ever happen.  Even if you gloss over the glaring issue: Who decides what is stupid? A vote? Benevolent overlord who somehow isn't part of the dreaded 1%?


AI.
 
2012-10-02 01:27:58 PM

ha-ha-guy: I think you are more likely to get the guys who talk an anarchist game all day while sitting on their ass in the tent city. They're all talk, but they're repulsive enough to drive off the more moderate folk.


that I can agree on, I think you have a lot of middle class whites looking for a reason to be different or grabbing the newest cause de jour. They seem to lack a unified cause and seem to be trying to one up each other over who cares more. Go read Rules for Radicals and learn about the backyard movement and see how it is done. You have to build a base, a coalition, and stop telling other people they don't understand maybe you just suck at presenting your case. Also, present some solutions are at least a frame work for them.

I went to university, I have a wasted liberal arts degree (Poli Sci graduated 09') and I'm doing IT. I worked in a farking call center out of college doing a job I could have done in high school, it was hell. The dream of go to university, sit tight, get a 4 year degree and start a life is gone. I understand the pain, chaos, and loss of sense of protection this causes, but I don't think you can isolate the problem down to just Wall St.

The masses cheered in the Neo-liberal Chicago/Vienna school policies, they hosted those modern robber barons up on their shoulders while they farked us. Hell we put Jim Crammer on TV and made him a celebrity! If we stopped trying to have get rich quick schemes and these falsehoods about how with hard work anyone can become rich we could move on and start repairing.

Instead, Occupy wants to keep looking for a shortcut, like if we hit a reset button on banks and wall st we can go back to a simpler time, here's a clue there never was a simpler time and sending a few bankers to prison is not a solution. Great Depression, S&L, Dot-Com Bubble, 2008 crash, we just keep repeating the same damn thing.
 
2012-10-02 01:28:36 PM

WizardofToast: Hagenhatesyouall: Science_Guy_3.14159: OWS just went full retard, never go full retard
Don't forget about the STD's. Can't forget about the STDs.

Just?

They've been full retard since day 1.

It was going good at first, and then it ended up basically becoming a treehouse club instead of an all-welcome group. Then came the drums and the unclear messages and bleh.

 
2012-10-02 01:30:25 PM

zedster: here's a clue there never was a simpler time and sending a few bankers to prison is not a solution. Great Depression, S&L, Dot-Com Bubble, 2008 crash, we just keep repeating the same damn thing.


OK, I give. How many bankers responsible for the Great Depression, the S&L scandal, the dot-com bubble, and/or the 2008 crash were imprisoned?


Well, then, how can we say it wouldn't work? It did in Iceland.
 
2012-10-02 01:33:39 PM

EyeballKid: And, what's the interest on that? OK, and if one bad year happens, where you miss some payments, you're spent paying off the added interest over an even longer period of time, and good luck finding that 45 year post-graduation career.

*Of course, none of this applies if you can run 40 yards quickly and/or have a fantastic jump shot.


3.4% now. We're talking about the ROI, no?

" Although simply completing high school improves earnings outlook, the average high school graduate will earn an estimated average annual income of $30,109 and $1.2 million in a lifetime.

The average college graduate stands to net nearly twice as much, with a $51,097 average annual income adding up over 40 years of earning potential to more than $2.04 million. "

Even if we assume $100,000 in tuition costs including interest on loans and all that. That's still a 20x ROI over the working years. Pretty good idea.
 
2012-10-02 01:33:56 PM

EyeballKid: zedster: here's a clue there never was a simpler time and sending a few bankers to prison is not a solution. Great Depression, S&L, Dot-Com Bubble, 2008 crash, we just keep repeating the same damn thing.

OK, I give. How many bankers responsible for the Great Depression, the S&L scandal, the dot-com bubble, and/or the 2008 crash were imprisoned?


Well, then, how can we say it wouldn't work? It did in Iceland.


What do you mean, throwing money at problems won't make them go away?

/and people think OWS is stupid, sheesh
 
2012-10-02 01:34:07 PM
Idiot for thinking his ice cream hippie-corp would be above the reproach of these clowns.
 
2012-10-02 01:35:29 PM
New B&J flavor: OWS Douche Run-out Surprise You have to hang it upside-down eat it through a hose.
 
2012-10-02 01:37:06 PM

skullkrusher: EyeballKid: And, what's the interest on that? OK, and if one bad year happens, where you miss some payments, you're spent paying off the added interest over an even longer period of time, and good luck finding that 45 year post-graduation career.

*Of course, none of this applies if you can run 40 yards quickly and/or have a fantastic jump shot.

3.4% now. We're talking about the ROI, no?

" Although simply completing high school improves earnings outlook, the average high school graduate will earn an estimated average annual income of $30,109 and $1.2 million in a lifetime.

The average college graduate stands to net nearly twice as much, with a $51,097 average annual income adding up over 40 years of earning potential to more than $2.04 million. "

Even if we assume $100,000 in tuition costs including interest on loans and all that. That's still a 20x ROI over the working years. Pretty good idea.


sorry, should have used the difference.

8x
 
2012-10-02 01:37:38 PM

EyeballKid: OK, I give. How many bankers responsible for the Great Depression, the S&L scandal, the dot-com bubble, and/or the 2008 crash were imprisoned?


apparently 800 for the S&L

In the wake of that debacle, special government task forces referred 1,100 cases to prosecutors, resulting in more than 800 bank officials going to jail.
 
2012-10-02 01:42:04 PM

EyeballKid: WarszawaScream: And uh... if you're trying to say that borrowing money and then not paying is back is A-OK... well. It's not that *I* did it and that's what everyone has to do. It's that NOT doing so is, well, stealing.

Trying to justify stealing with "I didn't know what I was doing at the time" or "I thought I'd be able to pay this back but I can't so you should just absolve me of it"... I don't need to explain it.

Seriously? Look at the return on Investment of a typical state college degree, considering the typical amount made by graduates throughout their careers, with the few lotto winners and pro ball players taken out of the equation; it's not the students doing the thieving.


I'm not totally unsympathetic, I agree that tuitions and interest rates are out of control and that the amounts charged are downright disgusting. BUT that doesn't give anyone the right to expect their loans to be paid off for them or that "I can't afford this so I shouldn't have to pay it." Unless the paperwork you signed when you took the loan out specified a sliding scale for how much you'd end up owing based on how much you end up making in the 5 years after you graduate, you're on the hook for whatever amount and interest rate you signed up for.

There needs to be much more education about student loans to high schoolers; I don't know anyone who came out of high school and signed up for college loans knowing the full ramifications of the loan system. Teenagers shouldn't be forced to make career decisions while still in high school at all. Insurance companies shouldn't hold dependant coverage hostage and say "If you don't go RIGHT into college after high school then you won't be covered!" Supporting and advocating taking a year or two off to travel, to work, to actually figure out what they want to do and to really experience what it's like in the working world and better understand the world outside school in general - THAT would do so much more right by young people than hand-outs and pay-offs.
 
2012-10-02 01:42:13 PM

skullkrusher: The Goddamn Batman: skullkrusher: Tat'dGreaser: skullkrusher: ummm... you should check out the Poli tab.

Oh hell no, I'll never go there

beyond the Entertainment Tab, thar be dragons

You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

it's gotten a bit better since DRO and I are maintabbing it with the hoi polloi at the moment


Hey, who you callin' "villainy"?
 
2012-10-02 01:44:03 PM

Virgil_Lee_Nobody: wow, wow, WHOA. What is with all the HATE on OWS? What the hell has happened to FARK?


Don't fark with Ben & Jerrys.
 
2012-10-02 01:47:32 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: skullkrusher: The Goddamn Batman: skullkrusher: Tat'dGreaser: skullkrusher: ummm... you should check out the Poli tab.

Oh hell no, I'll never go there

beyond the Entertainment Tab, thar be dragons

You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

it's gotten a bit better since DRO and I are maintabbing it with the hoi polloi at the moment

Hey, who you callin' "villainy"?


you're the scum. I'm the villain
 
2012-10-02 01:51:38 PM
"After we put in all those hours and put ourselves at risk as activists, we had [Cohen], who had not been in the van, come in and critique us," Read says. "To a person, I think we all feel kind of betrayed and disappointed."

yeah - put yourself at risk in every way except financial. the man was paying for it, there's no betrayal there - he did what he said he would do. YOU guys changed the plan after the fact. If i was giving money for AIDS research in Africa and found out they were funneling money into another cause (even a worthwhile one) i'd be a little pissy too and reserve the right to stop donating. how is this different?

but let this be a lesson to you - when someone else is paying for you, they tend to feel entitled to tell you how to use their money. i wonder if there's some sort of lesson that could be taken from that hard-learned fact.
 
2012-10-02 01:54:19 PM
$65,000 to mount a gobo projector on a van?

WTF
 
2012-10-02 01:56:36 PM
"He didn't want to have to bother with the messy part of being in a democracy, MAN!" Mark Read, the activist who claims to have initially proposed The Illuminator idea, tells DNAInfo.com.

"He's a 1 percenter, MAN!" Read, 46, adds to the website, "telling the 99 percent, 'I'm your boss, MAN!'"
 

FTFH
 
2012-10-02 01:58:09 PM
jabelar: This is actually a problem with our limited number of political "parties" here in the US -- that each party has a collection of values and it is unlikely you agree with the whole bundle.


In short ... I can't decide which group of assholes I want to give my vote to.
 
2012-10-02 02:08:03 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Virgil_Lee_Nobody: wow, wow, WHOA. What is with all the HATE on OWS? What the hell has happened to FARK?

I'm not hating OWS in general, I am hating the jackasses from TFA who were given a vehicle to use for OWS-related matters and decided to stamp their little feet and demand that they be able to use it for pet projects. That's not how the contract works.


This. I totally agree with the original purpose of OWS: fixing what's wrong with our financial sector, calling attention to the growing problems of wealth inequality and corporate money buying our government. This van was loaned in good faith to promote those issues, and by co-opting a gift to promote their own issues which are completely unrelated to the reason the van was loaned in the first place. In other words, they totally looked that gift horse in the mouth.

The vast majority of Occupy people are not this lame, but it's farkwits like Mark Read who hijack and dilute the message, and unwittingly do the work of the corporatists, by pissing off a lot of good people who wanted to help. The movement has a purpose. It's not all about YOU and the flavor of the day. Anyone can take on other social issues in their spare time, but If you're no longer interested in the original purpose of OWS, then you are free to leave, and start your own movement.
 
2012-10-02 02:11:37 PM

lordargent: skullkrushe: "He's a 1 percenter," Read, 46, adds to the website, "telling the 99 percent, 'I'm your boss.'"

He also started his company from scratch. Actually, the first time around, they started with $12,000 and closed shop a couple of months later.

I mean, isn't that the dream, to start a company from practically nothing and grow it into a multi million dollar company?

hovsm: Why do they keep saying they are the 99% when only about 1% of the 99% actually are a part of the demonstrations?

As a former member of the 80% who is now a part of the 15% I ask, WTF are those dudes problems?


Correction, he didn't build that.

/wink!
 
2012-10-02 02:19:52 PM

ha-ha-guy: And this is why OWS keeps stumbling. Because they can't stay on the broad appeal message of the income gap and the erosion of the middle class, instead it becomes a mob shooting the political message du jour.


Pretty much the same reason the Tea Party stumbled. If they had stuck to their core message of "taxes and government spending are too high", they'd have more support from the moderates. Instead, they allowed themselves to be taken over by the fundies and they have become the "new right wing with extra strength derp"
 
2012-10-02 02:26:00 PM
gothamist.com
There is a message in there somewhere.
 
2012-10-02 02:30:20 PM

cc_rider:

The vast majority of Occupy people are not this lame


I'll take your word for it if you insist, but it's the lame-ass ones who are getting most of the publicity. And who are responsible for #Occupy's degenerating from a theoretically good idea (calling attention to wealth disparity into the US) into a joke.
 
2012-10-02 02:37:30 PM

EyeballKid: ...who honestly thinks that the pricing for college tuition is done by any sort of ethical, or even rational, process?


Given that we live in a capitalist system it's called supply and demand.

Rework NAFTA and the tax code and start getting serious about cheap ass Chinese shiat flooding our markets and decent manufacturing jobs that pay a middle class wage will return...and people won't feel like they NEED a 4 year college degree to be able to have a middle class life worth living.

But hey, that shiat is hard. Join OWS and biatch uselessly instead. Either or.
 
2012-10-02 02:45:53 PM

craig328: EyeballKid: ...who honestly thinks that the pricing for college tuition is done by any sort of ethical, or even rational, process?

Given that we live in a capitalist system it's called supply and demand.

Rework NAFTA and the tax code and start getting serious about cheap ass Chinese shiat flooding our markets and decent manufacturing jobs that pay a middle class wage will return...and people won't feel like they NEED a 4 year college degree to be able to have a middle class life worth living.

But hey, that shiat is hard. Join OWS and biatch uselessly instead. Either or.


NAFTA, China, and/or manufacturing jobs are to blame, and current tuition rates are simply influenced by supply and demand?! Wow, I didn't know home schools taught econ.
 
2012-10-02 02:48:50 PM

Nightsweat: One of the reasons the Iraq War protests never got the traction the Vietnam ones did was that the far left (no, the real far left, not the people Republicans like to imagine are far left) would cram all kinds of shiat into the protest. Instead of focusing on JUST the war, there were gay rights, immigration rights, anti-NAFTA, fair trade, transgender, pay equity - you name it - signs and people who would take the podium and try to get the crowd fired up over their pet issue instead of focusing on the broadly unpopular war.

I attended two of the protests in 2002 and left each halfway through with a sense of "What the fark was that"?


If I were really cynical, I would say that there's been a false-flag operation at work, sabotaging protests by encouraging people to contaminate the message with extremist noise.
 
2012-10-02 02:53:33 PM
OWS ≠ Tea Party

Tea Party had goals and objectives, OWS people with money suck....
 
2012-10-02 03:02:33 PM

Pathman: "After we put in all those hours and put ourselves at risk as activists, we had [Cohen], who had not been in the van, come in and critique us," Read says. "To a person, I think we all feel kind of betrayed and disappointed."

yeah - put yourself at risk in every way except financial. the man was paying for it, there's no betrayal there - he did what he said he would do. YOU guys changed the plan after the fact. If i was giving money for AIDS research in Africa and found out they were funneling money into another cause (even a worthwhile one) i'd be a little pissy too and reserve the right to stop donating. how is this different?

but let this be a lesson to you - when someone else is paying for you, they tend to feel entitled to tell you how to use their money. i wonder if there's some sort of lesson that could be taken from that hard-learned fact.


For the win!!!
 
2012-10-02 03:20:35 PM

EyeballKid: craig328: EyeballKid: ...who honestly thinks that the pricing for college tuition is done by any sort of ethical, or even rational, process?

Given that we live in a capitalist system it's called supply and demand.

Rework NAFTA and the tax code and start getting serious about cheap ass Chinese shiat flooding our markets and decent manufacturing jobs that pay a middle class wage will return...and people won't feel like they NEED a 4 year college degree to be able to have a middle class life worth living.

But hey, that shiat is hard. Join OWS and biatch uselessly instead. Either or.

NAFTA, China, and/or manufacturing jobs are to blame, and current tuition rates are simply influenced by supply and demand?! Wow, I didn't know home schools taught econ.


I'm sure you meant that to be insulting but simply lacked the requisite wit and/or intellect to craft a sufficiently impressive riposte. I don't spend much time around the mouthbreathers on Fark much anymore so, yeah, my mistake for assuming someone like you would be possessed of a hint of knowledge. I'll do this Blue's Clues style just for you, sugarpants:

- college applications are up, admission rates are down = greater demand for less spots
- kids pursue college in greater percentages (and raw numbers) these days because of the drastic decline of traditional middle class jobs (read "manufacturing, heavy industry, etc") that don't require a 4 year college degree
- those same kids refuse to abandon the silly notion that they should simply accept a lower standard of living than their parents (aka: "they still want to be middle class and better")
- traditional middle class jobs have been fleeing this country for the past 20-30 years due to taxation pressures on the employers/providers of those once domestic jobs, the elimination of international protectionist trade structures (that'd be the NAFTA part) and the rise of Chinese (and other 2nd and 3rd world countries') economies whose records for consumer safety, respect for the environment and outright governmental manipulation designed to reduce American competitiveness in the global marketplace is abysmal and in violation of many existing trade treaties which we fail to do much more than complain about (things like MNF status for China despite manipulation of the yuan, flagrant ignorance of international patent and copyright agreements and illegal dumping of various products designed to destroy foreign marketplace competition)

In short, if there were a way for graduating high school students to make a decent living without a college degree (like what used to be the case not all that many years ago), the demand for such would drop and, due to that, colleges wouldn't be able to charge the exorbitant tuitions they currently demand for their product.

There. Clearer now? If not, rather than try even harder to craft an even less effective smartass ignorant response, go find an adult or even a reasonably competent child to explain it to you.
 
2012-10-02 03:22:15 PM

craig328: EyeballKid: ...who honestly thinks that the pricing for college tuition is done by any sort of ethical, or even rational, process?

Given that we live in a capitalist system it's called supply and demand.

Rework NAFTA and the tax code and start getting serious about cheap ass Chinese shiat flooding our markets and decent manufacturing jobs that pay a middle class wage will return...and people won't feel like they NEED a 4 year college degree to be able to have a middle class life worth living.

But hey, that shiat is hard. Join OWS and biatch uselessly instead. Either or.


except that because it is subsidized, they can "demand" whatever they want and it will get paid.

Rich people will always pay for that degree
Middle class people will always borrow for that degree
Poor people - well fark poor people. Enough of them will get in on merit or for throwing a ball that we won't feel guilty.

They keep jacking up the price, people keep paying/borrowing so they keep doing it.

Ask our friend Peter Schiff: A hundred years ago you could work for a month on the Ford plant to pay for a year at Yale. Today people are paying down student loans for 30 years after going to Yale. Has the quality of education at Yale gone up a few hundred fold? i doubt it.
 
2012-10-02 03:26:04 PM

smitty04: [gothamist.com image 640x480]
There is a message in there somewhere.


D-bags ruin everything.
 
2012-10-02 03:35:34 PM

craig328: blah...


Do you feel your greatest strength is your shortsightedness, your longwindedness, or your overall dickishness?
 
2012-10-02 03:37:44 PM

EyeballKid: craig328: blah...

Do you feel your greatest strength is your shortsightedness, your longwindedness, or your overall dickishness?


it seems to me like ye are more interested in seeing who can out-snark the other one more than actually trying to win the other over to their way of thinking.
 
2012-10-02 03:41:02 PM

Pathman: EyeballKid: craig328: blah...

Do you feel your greatest strength is your shortsightedness, your longwindedness, or your overall dickishness?

it seems to me like ye are more interested in seeing who can out-snark the other one more than actually trying to win the other over to their way of thinking.


that's what happens when the Poli tab taints the main page

/taints
 
2012-10-02 03:41:24 PM

Pathman: it seems to me like ye are more interested in seeing who can out-snark the other one more than actually trying to win the other over to their way of thinking.


My apologies, but as a liberal in Kentucky, I've learned to spot a lost cause from a mile away. Convincing a sucker they're being suckered has a high level of difficulty, and very little payoff.
 
2012-10-02 03:56:07 PM

EyeballKid: craig328: blah...

Do you feel your greatest strength is your shortsightedness, your longwindedness, or your overall dickishness?


Personally, I feel my greatest strength is my ability to clearly argue a point with facts and, on the odd occasions when it happens that I'm incorrect or that there's an alternate point of view that holds at least some validity I hadn't considered, I man up and admit to such.

Thanks for abandoning any pretense that you have even an atom of a clue about what was being discussed though. I applaud your decision to discard your charade of being informed and simply going with your strengths...which appears to be insult. You're still not very good at it but hey, hang in there sport. No point vacating your particular niche now, right?
 
2012-10-02 03:58:32 PM

craig328: EyeballKid: craig328: blah...

Do you feel your greatest strength is your shortsightedness, your longwindedness, or your overall dickishness?

Personally, I feel my greatest strength is my ability to clearly argue a point with facts and, on the odd occasions when it happens that I'm incorrect or that there's an alternate point of view that holds at least some validity I hadn't considered, I man up and admit to such.

Thanks for abandoning any pretense that you have even an atom of a clue about what was being discussed though. I applaud your decision to discard your charade of being informed and simply going with your strengths...which appears to be insult. You're still not very good at it but hey, hang in there sport. No point vacating your particular niche now, right?


Dickishness, then. Check.
 
2012-10-02 03:59:35 PM
...sigh
 
2012-10-02 04:01:43 PM

Pathman: craig328: EyeballKid: ...who honestly thinks that the pricing for college tuition is done by any sort of ethical, or even rational, process?

Given that we live in a capitalist system it's called supply and demand.

Rework NAFTA and the tax code and start getting serious about cheap ass Chinese shiat flooding our markets and decent manufacturing jobs that pay a middle class wage will return...and people won't feel like they NEED a 4 year college degree to be able to have a middle class life worth living.

But hey, that shiat is hard. Join OWS and biatch uselessly instead. Either or.

except that because it is subsidized, they can "demand" whatever they want and it will get paid.

Rich people will always pay for that degree
Middle class people will always borrow for that degree
Poor people - well fark poor people. Enough of them will get in on merit or for throwing a ball that we won't feel guilty.

They keep jacking up the price, people keep paying/borrowing so they keep doing it.

Ask our friend Peter Schiff: A hundred years ago you could work for a month on the Ford plant to pay for a year at Yale. Today people are paying down student loans for 30 years after going to Yale. Has the quality of education at Yale gone up a few hundred fold? i doubt it.


All that's true enough. Thing about the Ford plant part though: those jobs used to be plentiful and, if you were good at what you did (or had a particularly strong union) you could work your entire career there and retire. You won't make your millions but you made enough to live a reasonable middle class existence...and, on occasion, pay for your kid to attend Yale.

However, those jobs are way down in number from what they once were and they're under constant assault still. Kids can't aspire to be a line assembly worker in Detroit like they used to, right? So, what do they turn to and need to acquire in order to remain in the middle class?

I won't claim that tuition rates have kept pace with what Ford pays because they haven't...but Ford pay has been declining in overall numbers while degree seekers have been skyrocketing. As long as we pay teachers, charge for books and chalk, have entrance standards and award a degree at the end, education will remain a commodity and it will be subject (at least in part) to market forces (supply and demand).
 
2012-10-02 04:08:16 PM

EyeballKid: craig328: EyeballKid: craig328: blah...

Do you feel your greatest strength is your shortsightedness, your longwindedness, or your overall dickishness?

Personally, I feel my greatest strength is my ability to clearly argue a point with facts and, on the odd occasions when it happens that I'm incorrect or that there's an alternate point of view that holds at least some validity I hadn't considered, I man up and admit to such.

Thanks for abandoning any pretense that you have even an atom of a clue about what was being discussed though. I applaud your decision to discard your charade of being informed and simply going with your strengths...which appears to be insult. You're still not very good at it but hey, hang in there sport. No point vacating your particular niche now, right?

Dickishness, then. Check.


Right, I got it...you didn't need to draw a picture. You're out of ideas, have marked yourself down as conversationally empty and your sole rebuttal is contemptuous rudeness. We're good.
 
2012-10-02 04:12:50 PM

craig328: As long as we pay teachers, charge for books and chalk, have entrance standards and award a degree at the end, education will remain a commodity and it will be subject (at least in part) to market forces (supply and demand).


yeah - and that's how it should be. i'm hope i've been quite clear which "side" of this issue i'm on.

You always read (or were told) that college graduate makes about a million dollars more over the course of their career than the average high school student. If this is true why is it necessary for government to subsidize such a great investment?

There is nothing wrong with taking a loan out to pay for something - but that's not what a government subsidy is. A government "loan" is a risk-free - otherwise why would they enter into that market at all in the first place? they're doing it to give loans to people that otherwise couldn't get them.
That's great - but they're doing so at the risk of other people's money: yours.

So government makes riskier loans than do private lenders. That's not good practice. It also might explain why almost half of the students in this country don't graduate in 6 years.

A NORMAL business that is subject to normal economic rules is always going to try and keep costs (and therefore tuition) down. What incentive does any academic institution have to do that?

THAT is why yale is charging close to 30, 40, 50, 60k a year in tuition. 
The same reason a dog licks his balls.
 
2012-10-02 04:24:34 PM

Tat'dGreaser:
Once you let Anarchists Iconoclasts in your protest, your protest has lost all meaning. All those dipsh*ts want to do is break windows.

 

FTFY, no charge
 
2012-10-02 04:25:19 PM

Pathman: craig328: As long as we pay teachers, charge for books and chalk, have entrance standards and award a degree at the end, education will remain a commodity and it will be subject (at least in part) to market forces (supply and demand).

yeah - and that's how it should be. i'm hope i've been quite clear which "side" of this issue i'm on.

You always read (or were told) that college graduate makes about a million dollars more over the course of their career than the average high school student. If this is true why is it necessary for government to subsidize such a great investment?

There is nothing wrong with taking a loan out to pay for something - but that's not what a government subsidy is. A government "loan" is a risk-free - otherwise why would they enter into that market at all in the first place? they're doing it to give loans to people that otherwise couldn't get them.
That's great - but they're doing so at the risk of other people's money: yours.

So government makes riskier loans than do private lenders. That's not good practice. It also might explain why almost half of the students in this country don't graduate in 6 years.

A NORMAL business that is subject to normal economic rules is always going to try and keep costs (and therefore tuition) down. What incentive does any academic institution have to do that?

THAT is why yale is charging close to 30, 40, 50, 60k a year in tuition. 
The same reason a dog licks his balls.


Again, all true. However, what empowers the dog to lick his own nutsack is that his effort to do so is successfully rewarded. If the demand for college degrees decreased and Yale kept jacking their tuition into the stratosphere, at some point they'd discover their efforts to make more and more money via tuition was counterproductive to that goal.

That assumes a lot of perfect circumstances like a lack of collusion amongst colleges, those same colleges being unable to successfully lobby for greater access to their campuses by foreign students, etc.

And yeah, I'm not a huge fan of government backed loans. They're not at all secure loans (which is why the government is involved in the first place because the private sector has actuaries that know it's a lousy bet) and they make them with taxpayer funds. If they were secured against assets I'd be more in favor...but then that would lead some to decry how education is only available to those who own things (aka: "the rich" which would actually be the middle class).

Recently, I've had discussions with my stepson about his desire to acquire a degree (a laudable goal) versus looking at a trade. Many trades feature a workforce that is rapidly aging with few follow-on younger workers to replace them. Machinists in particular are practically uniformly gray...and machinists can make a damn good buck. He won't consider it though.
 
2012-10-02 04:30:25 PM

ha-ha-guy: Nightsweat: One of the reasons the Iraq War protests never got the traction the Vietnam ones did was that the far left (no, the real far left, not the people Republicans like to imagine are far left) would cram all kinds of shiat into the protest. Instead of focusing on JUST the war, there were gay rights, immigration rights, anti-NAFTA, fair trade, transgender, pay equity - you name it - signs and people who would take the podium and try to get the crowd fired up over their pet issue instead of focusing on the broadly unpopular war.

I attended two of the protests in 2002 and left each halfway through with a sense of "What the fark was that"?

I ran into Code Pink once. That one group came closer to turning me into a pro war Chickenhawk than all the American Thinker/Project for a New American Century/etc bullshiat I ever read.


I ran into them once, too. Code Pink was so retarded they made me want to become a Republican.
 
2012-10-02 04:31:27 PM

craig328: Recently, I've had discussions with my stepson about his desire to acquire a degree (a laudable goal) versus looking at a trade. Many trades feature a workforce that is rapidly aging with few follow-on younger workers to replace them. Machinists in particular are practically uniformly gray...and machinists can make a damn good buck. He won't consider it though.


If he's like my stepkid, he expects to get paid for licking his own balls.
 
2012-10-02 04:38:35 PM

tommydee: craig328: Recently, I've had discussions with my stepson about his desire to acquire a degree (a laudable goal) versus looking at a trade. Many trades feature a workforce that is rapidly aging with few follow-on younger workers to replace them. Machinists in particular are practically uniformly gray...and machinists can make a damn good buck. He won't consider it though.

If he's like my stepkid, he expects to get paid for licking his own balls.


I'm sorry, and why exactly shouldn't yoga instructors get paid?
 
2012-10-02 05:14:11 PM

tommydee: If he's like my stepkid, he expects to get paid for licking his own balls.


There's probably a club in Province Town, or San Francisco where he could get that job, on stage.

/probably wouldn't work out working the sunset watchers at Key West for spare change though.
 
2012-10-02 05:16:48 PM
*shrug*

Americans.
 
2012-10-02 06:52:09 PM
Well, the people running ben and jerrys are idiots....

cdn2.mamapop.com
 
2012-10-02 07:49:06 PM

craig328: EyeballKid: craig328: EyeballKid: ...who honestly thinks that the pricing for college tuition is done by any sort of ethical, or even rational, process?

Given that we live in a capitalist system it's called supply and demand.

Rework NAFTA and the tax code and start getting serious about cheap ass Chinese shiat flooding our markets and decent manufacturing jobs that pay a middle class wage will return...and people won't feel like they NEED a 4 year college degree to be able to have a middle class life worth living.

But hey, that shiat is hard. Join OWS and biatch uselessly instead. Either or.

NAFTA, China, and/or manufacturing jobs are to blame, and current tuition rates are simply influenced by supply and demand?! Wow, I didn't know home schools taught econ.

I'm sure you meant that to be insulting but simply lacked the requisite wit and/or intellect to craft a sufficiently impressive riposte. I don't spend much time around the mouthbreathers on Fark much anymore so, yeah, my mistake for assuming someone like you would be possessed of a hint of knowledge. I'll do this Blue's Clues style just for you, sugarpants:

- college applications are up, admission rates are down = greater demand for less spots
- kids pursue college in greater percentages (and raw numbers) these days because of the drastic decline of traditional middle class jobs (read "manufacturing, heavy industry, etc") that don't require a 4 year college degree
- those same kids refuse to abandon the silly notion that they should simply accept a lower standard of living than their parents (aka: "they still want to be middle class and better")
- traditional middle class jobs have been fleeing this country for the past 20-30 years due to taxation pressures on the employers/providers of those once domestic jobs, the elimination of international protectionist trade structures (that'd be the NAFTA part) and the rise of Chinese (and other 2nd and 3rd world countries') economies whose records for consumer ...


you are now on my favorites list...
 
2012-10-02 07:57:12 PM

Maul555: Well, the people running ben and jerrys are idiots....

[cdn2.mamapop.com image 325x214]


those people being neither ben nor jerry of course
but how do you figure?
 
2012-10-02 08:01:12 PM

Pathman: Maul555: Well, the people running ben and jerrys are idiots....

[cdn2.mamapop.com image 325x214]

those people being neither ben nor jerry of course
but how do you figure?


well, i now know that ben and jerrys is no longer run by ben and jerry.... Please excuse me...

Ben and Jerry are idiots who know how to make good ice cream...
 
2012-10-02 08:26:03 PM
make that just ben....
 
2012-10-02 08:45:02 PM

Maul555: make that just ben....


and once again -why?
 
2012-10-02 09:12:40 PM

Pathman: Maul555: make that just ben....

and once again -why?



Ben Cohen of Ben and Jerry's agreed to help out the Occupy cause back in January by vowing to contribute as much as $65,000 to be used towards developing and operating a vehicle that would light up the skyline of Lower Manhattan with messages synonymous with the movement.

 
2012-10-02 09:16:33 PM

Smoky Dragon Dish: Jeez, it's like focus people... focus...


If they could focus, they wouldn't be poor, destitute, and envious.

Perhaps drugs are the answer. I dunno.
 
2012-10-02 10:44:23 PM
"derp.. we still don't get what OWS was talking about a whole year later." Fark user base.
 
2012-10-02 11:01:31 PM
Oh great, a dozen Occupy protesters out front with mega phones today. In other news I found a use for my new super-soaker from the roof of the building.
 
2012-10-03 12:40:40 AM
OWS...DOA the moment it was announced as leaderless.
 
2012-10-03 02:22:21 AM
Is this where barely middle class or lower just out of college kids make fun of OWS and use every old and tired phrase in the book?
 
2012-10-03 06:50:02 AM

Maul555: Pathman: Maul555: make that just ben....

and once again -why?



Ben Cohen of Ben and Jerry's agreed to help out the Occupy cause back in January by vowing to contribute as much as $65,000 to be used towards developing and operating a vehicle that would light up the skyline of Lower Manhattan with messages synonymous with the movement.


it's like pulling teeth...i really don't see why that makes him an idiot but i don't really care anymore
 
2012-10-03 07:10:40 AM

devilEther: You will join OWS eventually.


No. I have a real job, so I already have a place to go and hangout, and get paid for it.
 
2012-10-03 09:30:24 AM

Onkel Buck: devilEther: You will join OWS eventually.

No. I have a real job, so I already have a place to go and hangout, and get paid for it.


As do I, for now
 
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