olddinosaur: someonelse: olddinosaur: There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.citation neededGo to google and key in "illegal immigrant voting," and you will find about 8.5 million of these citation thingies you love so well.RTFP, doofus.
slykens1: I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.
mr lawson: Sure!
theknuckler_33: hetheeme: The machine in PA is solid blue, so allowing fraud there helps Democrats out more than it would Republicans.Again, you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.
thornhill: Isn't this actually great news for the GOP? Now they can claim they were cheated out of the election by not just skewed polls, but also voter fraud.
olddinosaur: Go to google and key in "illegal immigrant voting," and you will find about 8.5 million of these citation thingies you love so well.RTFP, doofus.
Epoch_Zero: Phweew. For a minute there I thought I was going to have to show ID to vote........after I verify my address then sign my name and have it authorized by two present voting officials.I think I'll vote ALL THE TIMES
I_C_Weener: I don't know any poor, elderly or college students who don't have ID
bmongar: The dead always favor Democrats because they no longer live in the fear it takes to maintain a Republican affiliation.
IlGreven: Leeds: IlGreven: Leeds: IlGreven: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PAI know it's sarcasm, but stillI never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?Er, um, it costs money they don't have?Yep, that's the democrat's argument. The free ID's will cost the poor more money than they have.You mean the "free ID" that requires a check or money order to obtain?No, I mean the free ID that's free, you ignorant slut....and where, pray tell, do you get a free ID in Pennsylvania? According to the OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITE THAT I LINKED TO, a Photo ID costs $13.95. And because the PA DMV doesn't take cash, you also have to pay to maintain a checking account for the checks you need to write out to get them. Last I checked, checks and money orders were not free, though some checking accounts are. And $13.95 for a photo ID is a larger fee than the last poll taxes that were abolished by the 24th amendment. Now, if you actually want to change this and make government-issued ID's ACTUALLY FREE to anyone who asked, then, sure, you can say that the argument's ridiculous. But for some people, $13.95 is more than they can afford, even only one time every four years. And it shouldn't be asked of anyone to vote.
Giltric: What states do they take an NRA ID as official ID? Do you have a link?
Giltric: And you already answered the question of why they dont take college IDs in your previous statement of people forging IDs to buy booze.
Leeds: PsiChick: Leeds: PsiChick: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PAI know it's sarcasm, but stillI never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?Because if you're working a dead-end job and the DMV is only open from nine to five, you can't take time off work to renew your ID. And if you've been in that situation for a long time, you probably don't have a car or an up-to-date ID, because almost anyone will take an expired ID. This problem is multiplied exponentially if you have a child or some other responsibility.Then it's probably a good thing that they're open 6 days a week.// Just sayin'Ha, you're funny./I don't know who runs your DMV, but there ain't a sixth day out here.//And even if there were, see above--do you really think a weekend bus schedule, weekend babysitters (if you even have enough money for that), and DMV Saturday hours, if you don't have a six-day job, is reasonable? Because no, it's not.If this theoretical person is unable to carve out an hour or two over the course of 8 months then it is clear that they would be unable to make it to the polls on election day anyway.As a result, they are likely voting using an absentee ballot which does not require a photo ID anyway.Where's the disenfranchisement?
justtray: Did anyone call the police? Because the amount of rape that occurred in this thread really needs to be reported.
mr lawson: Lionel Mandrake: The argument is that it amounts to a poll tax, results in keeping eligible voters from voting, and addresses a non-existent "problem"The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?
ChuDogg: I'll be perfectly honest I don't think dumb and poor people should vote, I would have much more stringent conditions on voting including IQ tests, historical knowledge of US Constitutional and Common law doctrine and its development, civics, and quite possibly service in the military, Peace corps, or extensive volunteer work through College. Voting should be seen as something to be prepared for very early in the year. Like studying for the SAT, LSATS, etc. But yeah, this is a start.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio
SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP!WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?
Leeds: nytmare: This is how republicans actually rationalize it. Even though individual voter fraud is probably rare, and there are already procedures in place to ensure one vote per registered person making official ID cards unnecessary.Because you are physically incapable of signing a name that's not your own, amirite?And there is some sort of force field that bars you from entering 2 polling stations in the same day, right?
spmkk: coeyagi: "Aunt, old and feeble, now has mild Alzheimer's, lives at the beach, still has the right to vote".And...you don't see a problem with a clinically demented person being allowed to influence national policy?TNel: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?I got my first job in HS at 15 no ID needed...I call bullshiat. I got my first job at 13. Legal, all above board...had to get permission from my school and a sign-off from both parents, IIRC. I had to produce my original Social Security card...while that in itself is not a photo ID, it *IS* sufficient in any state to get a photo ID issued to you. (Note that in Pennsylvania, getting this photo ID is explicitly free and doesn't even require a Social Security card, merely a number.) In other words, if you have what it legally takes to get a job -- even at 15 -- then you have what it takes to obtain a photo ID.
Nutsac_Jim: Again.. how did you get your job in the first place, without supplying them an ID?
Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PAI know it's sarcasm, but still
hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.
Pockafrusta: Democrats look like douchebags on this one.../Independent
dabbletech: My uncle in Philly was a staunch conservative and voted a straight-line Republican ticket until the day he died.Now, he votes Democrat.
justtray: Leeds: justtray: 1) We can prove that voter ID laws disenfranchise legitmate voters at significant levels..2) We cannot prove that illegal voter fraud is occurring at a significant level.3) Therefore, voter fraud is a problem and must be stopped./Republican logic.Allow me to retort.Point 1 is total bullshiate. Even the court ruled in previous months that this would not disenfranchise anyone. Even the people that the ACLU put on the stand as examples of people who would not be able to vote have ALL since found the 10 minutes required to pick up their free ID's. Seriously, every single one of them.Point 2 is an important point. Until this law was passed there was zero method to determine how significant this problem is. The law was the fix for this issue as it provided a means of actually gathering the data for the very first time.Point 3 is of course true.Ignore listed.
you have pee hands: mr lawson: Whoa...wait right there! Go back and look at what i said. I said POTENTIAL! I even bolded it to avoid this very type of attack.Because in the absence of any sort of actual statistics regarding fraud it's just a big number for shock value which is senseless fearmongering.
mainstreet62: If I may interject, I just adopted 2 kittens yesterday, I needed to show photo ID. Everything else crossed out looks OKCarry on.
coeyagi: It's beautiful when trolls / low-information voters internet fist-bump.
bim1154: One of the nice things about my job is I get to abuse and exploit illegal immigrants on a daily basis. I'm on Sheriff Joe Arpaio's staff so I'm getting a kick out of your replies....
Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:adopt a petpurchase a homepurchase an automobilepurchase a gunobtain a bank accountobtain a credit cardobtain a passportwrite a checkmake a credit card purchaseapply for a loan to purchase anythingto prove your ageto get marriedto receive a marriage licenseto driveto buy a houseto close on a houseto get medical careto get on a planeto get insurance on anythingto get a jobto get a post office boxto get a hunting licenseto get a fishing licenseto get a business licenseto cash a paycheckrent an apartmentrent a hotel roomrent a carrent furniturerent tools and equipmentreceive welfarereceive social securityreceive food stampsbuy cigarettesbuy alcoholbuy a bus ticketbuy a cell phonebuy any antihistiminego in to a casinogo in to a bargo to collegehave your water turned onhave your electricity turned onhave your cable turned onhave your gas turned onobtain trash pick up servicepick up a package from the post officepick up a package from fed expick up a package from upspick up a prescriptionSo the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?
Eagles409: I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.
HotIgneous Intruder: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?If something has to be paid for, it is not free. Taxpayers pay for the "free" voter IDs, therefore they are not free. Plus, obtaining the IDs requires citizens to take time, which is money, out of their lives.
Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?
HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!// Democrats actually believe this crapYou didn't answer the question.Should they then lose their ability to vote?
Biff_Steel: Can't we just dip our fingers in ink and do away with these shenanigans?
olddinosaur: If you google "illegal immigrant voting" you will find about 8.5 million articles more or less.
fireclown: The right to vote HOW many times?
olddinosaur: If you google "illegal immigrant voting" you will find about 8.5 million articles more or less.There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.
Marine1: Opening a line of credit
Marine1: moothemagiccow: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:DrivingPurchasing a firearmCarrying a firearmCashing a checkOpening a bank accountUsing a debit or credit cardOpening a line of creditBoarding a commercial flightGoing to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)Getting a passportBuying tobaccoBuying alcoholBuying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)Going over the border into Canada or MexicoTransferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease onWith all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?Photo ID. Handicapped, elderly and indigent. People you probably don't know or see, but are still citizens with a right to vote.I already provided adequate ID when I registered to vote. I can vote with my registration card, which lacks a photo.Then get them a freakin' ID so they can use it in the rest of their lives. Not having that little card more or less screws you over for opportunity in today's world.
Marine1: With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID?
Alonjar: WTF? You dont have to show ID?What could possibly go wrong?
Pennsylvania 2008 results:Barack Obama 3,192,316John McCain 2,586,496Ralph Nader 41,520Bob Barr 19,926
Dimensio: This claim is entirely without merit.
Marine1: Dude, if you don't have an ID, you're off the farking grid these days. I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?
slykens1: qorkfiend: Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.Funnily enough, if you want an ID to vote PennDOT will give you one for free.Oh, and your nursing home ID and student ID are OK too if they have an expiration date.I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.
Chabash: What about rich old white people? Are they still allowed?
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