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(Google) NewsFlash Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people still allowed to vote in PA   (google.com) divider line 995
    More: NewsFlash, voter ID, dead people, League of Women Voters, provisional ballots, illegal immigrants, Pennsylvania Republicans, swing states, Tom Corbett  
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13303 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 11:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Archived thread
 
2012-10-02 11:13:49 AM
This headline sucks, mine was better.
 
2012-10-02 11:13:59 AM
The troll is strong...
 
2012-10-02 11:14:03 AM
The dead always favor Democrats because they no longer live in the fear it takes to maintain a Republican affiliation.
 
2012-10-02 11:14:03 AM
Good news is good.
 
2012-10-02 11:14:20 AM
Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still
 
2012-10-02 11:14:23 AM
What about rich old white people? Are they still allowed?
 
2012-10-02 11:14:40 AM
I forgot this ruling was coming out today. Thank goodness.

/Pa. resident
 
2012-10-02 11:15:02 AM
good.

/farking republicans.
 
2012-10-02 11:15:09 AM
Right-wing reaction:

www.deviantart.com
 
2012-10-02 11:15:11 AM

Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still


I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?
 
2012-10-02 11:15:12 AM
Fartbongo seen doing a happy dance.
 
2012-10-02 11:15:16 AM
So they're going to use Chicago's Rules? I think I still vote in Chicago Heights. Haven't been there since 84.
 
2012-10-02 11:15:18 AM
Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.
 
2012-10-02 11:15:27 AM
Much to the chagrin of the Republicans, Democracy still somewhat exists in PA.

Maybe next year, cons.
 
2012-10-02 11:15:34 AM
That's good, all the Irish and Italian immigrants should be allowed to participate.
 
2012-10-02 11:15:35 AM
"Simpson ordered the state not to enforce the photo ID requirement in this year's presidential election but will allow it to go into full effect next year."

"The constitutionality of the law was not a question before Simpson."

You'll have a year or so to get an ID, get on it.
 
2012-10-02 11:15:36 AM

Chabash: What about rich old white people? Are they still allowed?


Only for 50,000 a second in the voting booth.
 
2012-10-02 11:15:51 AM
bracing for derp

lh3.ggpht.com
 
2012-10-02 11:16:05 AM
Ah yes, went with the troll headline version on this one eh Mods? Color me shocked.
 
2012-10-02 11:16:28 AM

Chabash: What about rich old white people? Are they still allowed?


Motions have begun to see if they can vote twice.
 
2012-10-02 11:16:28 AM
My doga and I are moving to PA stat.

/nice troll subby
 
2012-10-02 11:16:49 AM
"Simpson ordered the state not to enforce the photo ID requirement in this year's presidential election but will allow it to go into full effect next year."

Oh, the Republicans are going to be pissed off they're getting what they wanted, but not in time to achieve their disenfranchisement goals.
 
2012-10-02 11:16:49 AM
I am not sure if anyone should be allowed to vote in PA, maybe they should feel the taste of an inflexible dictatorship led by a charismatic leader, me perhaps.
 
2012-10-02 11:16:52 AM
There goes Romney's last chance at winning Pennsylvania. If they can't keep the poor, elderly, and college students from voting, he's done.

Hard to feel bad about this.
 
2012-10-02 11:16:52 AM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


*notsureifserious*
 
2012-10-02 11:17:07 AM
Be ready for derpcon level 4 outrage on Fox
 
2012-10-02 11:17:13 AM
Election workers will still be allowed to ask voters for a valid photo ID, but people without it can vote on a regular voting machine in the polling place and would not have to cast a provisional ballot or prove their identity to election officials after the election.

So, do I refuse to show my ID if I am asked?
 
2012-10-02 11:17:25 AM
I'm ok with this. What's the big deal?
 
2012-10-02 11:17:25 AM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.
 
2012-10-02 11:17:29 AM
No, sorry, you can't throw up eleventh-hour barriers to vote and claim that they won't have a substantial impact.
 
2012-10-02 11:17:32 AM
Great troll. Bet that State Speaker of the House will be dissapointed that he can't automatically deliver his state to Rmoney.
 
2012-10-02 11:17:43 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-02 11:17:50 AM
The lawmakers who passed this came flat out and said they were doing so to help Romney win PA, so good.

If laws like this HAVE to be implemented, do it now for the election four years from now, so everyone has plenty of time to get an ID. Not a month before the election.
 
2012-10-02 11:17:53 AM
done
 
2012-10-02 11:18:18 AM
"Simpson ordered the state not to enforce the photo ID requirement in this year's presidential election but will allow it to go into full effect next year."

Good to know that they can commit fraud just long enough to let Obama win the state one last time.

Nothing wring with the law in general, apparently, just that it would hurt the Obama administration.
 
2012-10-02 11:18:26 AM
Ha-ha.
Judge said there was no first-hand evidence of voter fraud and they couldn't provide any.
 
2012-10-02 11:18:27 AM
Good for PA... I will still vote twice in Nov since NC is a toss up state.
 
2012-10-02 11:18:33 AM
Of course people without what the local official considers "valid ID" will still have to cast a provisional ballot. This will create a lot of uncertainty and confusion which the Republicans are still experts at exploiting. Look for the election to end up in court at the very least.

One thing about it that I found interesting is to see how the vote goes down among provisional ballots. That will settle once and for all just who it is that voter ID laws disenfranchise.
 
2012-10-02 11:18:39 AM

qorkfiend: Make the IDs free and automatically issued


But socialism!
 
2012-10-02 11:18:46 AM

bmongar: The dead always favor Democrats because they no longer live in the fear it takes to maintain a Republican affiliation.


lol
 
2012-10-02 11:18:46 AM
The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

/ I know; I'm worse than hitler
 
2012-10-02 11:18:51 AM

theknuckler_33: Election workers will still be allowed to ask voters for a valid photo ID, but people without it can vote on a regular voting machine in the polling place and would not have to cast a provisional ballot or prove their identity to election officials after the election.

So, do I refuse to show my ID if I am asked?


That's what I had gathered from that statement
 
2012-10-02 11:19:16 AM

hetheeme: "Simpson ordered the state not to enforce the photo ID requirement in this year's presidential election but will allow it to go into full effect next year."

Good to know that they can commit fraud just long enough to let Obama win the state one last time.

Nothing wring with the law in general, apparently, just that it would hurt the Obama administration.


You should show us the proof that fraud helped Obama win it last time. or helped any politician in any race win.
 
2012-10-02 11:19:21 AM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


Yes because it's Democrats AND ONLY Democrats that commit voter fraud.

Maybe you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.
 
2012-10-02 11:19:29 AM
Making it harder for people to vote vs. the extremely small amount of voter fraud that occurs is just not a good trade off. Voting is a right, not a bunch of hoops to jump through, so we should err on the side of it being as easy as possible.
 
2012-10-02 11:19:29 AM
illegal immigrants and dead people still allowed to vote in PA

Obama voters.
 
2012-10-02 11:19:46 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com

Don't ya'all fret none....its still gonna be RED. 

www.dickdestiny.com

15/10  
 
2012-10-02 11:19:48 AM

Bag of Hammers: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

*notsureifserious*


Lubbock TX, you make the call.
 
2012-10-02 11:19:50 AM

qorkfiend: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.


Fine by me. If there were anything worth the taxpayers money to pay for, it's making sure that the elections are not prone to fraud.
 
2012-10-02 11:19:56 AM
memedepot.com
 
2012-10-02 11:19:59 AM
Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?
 
2012-10-02 11:20:15 AM
dead people voting

Cracks me up.
 
2012-10-02 11:20:39 AM
The GOP was so close to having the wasteful bureaucratic government restriction on rights they love so much. What a shame.
 
2012-10-02 11:21:17 AM
This is very good news, but it won't have any impact on anything. Obama was going to carry the state either way by a very sound margin.
 
2012-10-02 11:21:24 AM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


any bites yet?

funny, though, that the only voter fraud stories seem to involve republicans like this nathan sproul scumbag.
 
2012-10-02 11:21:34 AM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


Lots of people who are "poor" work at jobs that don't give them time off, or if they don't work, may not have a vehicle, or have to rely on public transportation that doesn't go past whereever the ID office is located and is open. Some states closed ID offices in areas of heavy Democratic populations, others changed the times they were open to very restrictive hours. Other states don't come out with the requirements for the ID's, so someone needing an ID may have to make multiple trips to the office to get all the documents.

/still don't see what the actual goal is, do you?
 
2012-10-02 11:21:42 AM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


Some people are really poor and cannot afford something that they see has no value in their life. Why get an ID if you don't need it?
 
2012-10-02 11:21:43 AM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


It doesn't prohibit you from having one. They cost money to obtain. I've heard they cost around $30.00 in this part of Ohio.
 
2012-10-02 11:21:45 AM
Good. Suck it, Pennsylvania GOP.
 
2012-10-02 11:21:48 AM

tallguywithglasseson: There goes Romney's last chance at winning Pennsylvania. If they can't keep the poor, elderly, and college students from voting, he's done.

Hard to feel bad about this.



I don't know any poor, elderly or college students who don't have ID.  Is that a problem in Pennsylvania? 
 
2012-10-02 11:21:53 AM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


They cost money. And it's not a state issued ID, it's a state issued PHOTO ID.
 
2012-10-02 11:22:08 AM

bmongar: The dead always favor Democrats because they no longer live in the fear it takes to maintain a Republican affiliation.


i583.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-02 11:22:14 AM

OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?


It is a poll tax and thus violates the constitution. The right to vote is contingent on showing up, nothing else.
 
2012-10-02 11:22:19 AM
Okay, ALL is fair in WAR.....NO ID, no problem...TAKE ANY ONE AND EVERYONE you know who isn't registered to the polls. IF you have guest from out of town take them to vote....HELL TWO CAN PLAY THE SAME GAME!! If you can rent a van, pick up folk from the streets and take them to vote. Hell offer them a pack of cigarettes, a beer or an ex-large soda in exchange for their vote....DON'T JUST MOAN AND GROAN....TAKE ACTION AND STICK IT UP their BUTTS WHERE THE SUN DON'T SUNSHINE!! link

Republicans seem slightly upset by this turn of events.
 
2012-10-02 11:22:35 AM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


Depends on the voter ID requirement in question. Pennsylvania's in particular required you to pay money and take time out of the work day to acquire the documents necessary to get the photo ID. (You do know that most of the poor work, right? And that they can't get time off whenever they want?)
 
2012-10-02 11:22:45 AM
You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?
 
2012-10-02 11:22:46 AM
Voter fraud occurs in 2/million cases.
 
2012-10-02 11:22:53 AM
Voter ID is a fine idea. The problem is that Republicans want to push these laws through as fast as they can making it harder for people that typically vote Democratic. Students, minorities and the poor will all have a more difficult time voting.

Want to do it right? Do the ID part of the law first. Make sure every citizen has an ID (for free) so they can vote. Then put the ID requirement for voting through. That is, if you're really interesting in preventing voter fraud and making sure everyone can vote.
 
2012-10-02 11:22:55 AM

hetheeme: it's making sure that the elections are not prone to fraud.


So you advocate that the GOP be tested constantly for compliance. Good choice.
 
2012-10-02 11:23:00 AM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


It means you have to schedule time off from work to travel to and wait around at whatever office or registry is issuing those IDs, and while that may certainly be possible, the closer to a minimum wage job you have, the stricter the supervisor tends to be about schedules. So, maybe it takes a month or two to schedule that time off. No problem... you'll get your ID in December.
... too late.

That's why it's unreasonable to push through a new voter ID requirement a month before a national election, while it's perfectly reasonable for the judge to say "fine, this law takes effect starting next year. People will have almost two years before the next national election to get their ID, rather than four weeks."

The only people who could possibly have a problem with this are those who were explicitly relying on this to unfairly affect the outcome of this election. In other words, complaining about it means that you're in favor of disenfranchising people.
 
2012-10-02 11:23:09 AM

qorkfiend: Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.


Funnily enough, if you want an ID to vote PennDOT will give you one for free.

Oh, and your nursing home ID and student ID are OK too if they have an expiration date.

I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.
 
2012-10-02 11:23:21 AM

smitty04: illegal immigrants and dead people still allowed to vote in PA

Obama voters.



47%
 
2012-10-02 11:23:30 AM

FlashHarry: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

any bites yet?

funny, though, that the only voter fraud stories seem to involve republicans like this nathan sproul scumbag.


Dontcha just love the RW trolls blurting "DEMONCRAT VOTER FRAUD~!" when many stories are sprouting up recently about voter fraud involving the GOP.

When it's about power, Republicans pretty much will sell their soul to Satan in order to get it.
 
2012-10-02 11:23:44 AM

Chabash: What about rich old white people? Are they still allowed?


They can still buy as many votes as they want.
 
2012-10-02 11:23:55 AM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


If the ID costs money, it's a poll tax, which is unconstitutional.

If the ID does not cost money, there's still the time involved in obtaining an ID. Generally speaking, the working poor in the US don't have the type of career where they can say "hey, I need to take off from work to run to the DMV and grab an ID", because management can easily find another minimum-wage worker who will actually be able to stay at work.
 
2012-10-02 11:24:05 AM

I_C_Weener: I don't know any poor, elderly or college students who don't have ID. Is that a problem in Pennsylvania?


Ask the former Mayor of Pittsburgh
.
 
2012-10-02 11:24:12 AM

hetheeme: qorkfiend: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.

Fine by me. If there were anything worth the taxpayers money to pay for, it's making sure that the elections are not prone to fraud.


These laws hinge in people NOT being able to afford the ID. In NH they passed a law which said that students wishing to vote at school had to not only have a NH licence but had to have a REGISTERED vehicle. Guess who the students will vote for? Guess who controls the NH legislature.

(hopefully will be scuttled as well)
 
2012-10-02 11:24:20 AM

I_C_Weener: tallguywithglasseson: There goes Romney's last chance at winning Pennsylvania. If they can't keep the poor, elderly, and college students from voting, he's done.

Hard to feel bad about this.


I don't know any poor, elderly or college students who don't have ID.  Is that a problem in Pennsylvania?


I don't know of any cases of voter fraud in the USA. Is that a problem in Pennsylvania?

The biggest problem with this legislation is that it's under the guise of fixing voter fraud, something which isn't a problem anywhere in this country. We have turnout of less than 50% in presidential elections. There is no voter fraud problem to solve.
 
2012-10-02 11:24:39 AM

PonceAlyosha: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

It is a poll tax and thus violates the constitution. The right to vote is contingent on showing up, nothing else.



Well, showing up and being eligibel to vote...over 18, citizen, that kind of stuff.
 
State should pay for the IDs.  Indiana does.  That is why its ID law remains.
 
2012-10-02 11:24:49 AM

Marine1: With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID?


old people and poor people who are still americans with a constitutionally guaranteed right to vote.
 
2012-10-02 11:25:21 AM

slykens1: qorkfiend: Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.

Funnily enough, if you want an ID to vote PennDOT will give you one for free.

Oh, and your nursing home ID and student ID are OK too if they have an expiration date.

I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.


Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:25:26 AM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


Maybe because you can't afford a car so you don't have a license, and the 13.50 for an ID plus bus fare and time to get to the DOT to get an ID card to vote is more than some people can spend if they are really broke, especially if the reason they are broke is because they are disabled or elderly.
 
2012-10-02 11:25:29 AM
Good. I now live in PA, and hearing the stories about how people were being turned away by idiot clerks at the DMV upset me. I finally got my voter registration card in the mail the other day. Going to put it to good use.
 
TWX
2012-10-02 11:25:36 AM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


I'd rather have this kind of voter fraud than the kind of voter fraud perpetuated in Florida in 2000...

I'd also rather see all states use paper ballots with optical scanners. They have a paper trail for manual counting and marking a line with a pen between two dots is about as failsafe as one can get.

Every citizen has the constitutional right to vote. Anyone who denies them that right should be prosecuted and thrown in jail. If states want all registered voters to have ID, then the burden should be on the states to compare their voter rolls to their state ID system, and to notify all registered voters without a record of ID that they need it, and then the state should see to getting them that ID. If not, the state is disenfranchising them through its own action.
 
2012-10-02 11:25:45 AM
WTF? You dont have to show ID?

What could possibly go wrong?
 
2012-10-02 11:25:49 AM

Rwa2play: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Yes because it's Democrats AND ONLY Democrats that commit voter fraud.

Maybe you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.


Voter fraud help whoever has control of the political machine in the area. If Republicans win due to fraud, then throw those bastards out as well. The machine in PA is solid blue, so allowing fraud there helps Democrats out more than it would Republicans.

On any level, from any party, voter intimidation, voter fraud, and voter disenfranchisement are wrong.

If it means paying a little more from the state for a free version of the state IDs that are already issued, that can be used to make sure that one person, one vote means just that, then so be it.

oh and

2wolves: Bag of Hammers: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

*notsureifserious*

Lubbock TX, you make the call.


You are a bigot.
 
2012-10-02 11:25:50 AM

slykens1: qorkfiend: Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.

Funnily enough, if you want an ID to vote PennDOT will give you one for free.

Oh, and your nursing home ID and student ID are OK too if they have an expiration date.

I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.


That's why. Lots of older and/or poorer people only get an ID when they need it and then once it's expired don't renew it.
 
2012-10-02 11:25:51 AM
Darn, I was about to submit "Activist Judge Unwins State of PA for Mitt Romney"

/i don't need no stinkin grammar
 
2012-10-02 11:25:58 AM

FlashHarry: Marine1: With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID?

old people and poor people who are still americans with a constitutionally guaranteed right to vote.


Dude, if you don't have an ID, you're off the farking grid these days. I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?
 
2012-10-02 11:26:14 AM
'Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania?"- undone you slimy mistake of a mother-farker
 
2012-10-02 11:26:38 AM

I_C_Weener: I don't know any poor, elderly or college students who don't have ID


Must not be any then.
 
2012-10-02 11:26:42 AM

slykens1: qorkfiend: Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.

Funnily enough, if you want an ID to vote PennDOT will give you one for free.

Oh, and your nursing home ID and student ID are OK too if they have an expiration date.

I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.


So are you disputing the surveys that say a significant portion of the population don't have a valid idea or are you just straight up using the fallacy of incredulity?
 
2012-10-02 11:26:50 AM

bhcompy: I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


It fraking doesn't.
 
2012-10-02 11:27:11 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: I_C_Weener: I don't know any poor, elderly or college students who don't have ID. Is that a problem in Pennsylvania?

Ask the former Mayor of Pittsburgh.



Okay...how can you be mayor and just not have photo ID?  And why is she admitting to voter fraud in the 30's?  Haha.
 
2012-10-02 11:27:16 AM
You want to make voters better off? Get rid of the electoral college.
 
2012-10-02 11:27:25 AM
Who did Snowball 2 vote for? Great day for democracy people!
 
2012-10-02 11:27:25 AM

Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?


Photo ID. Handicapped, elderly and indigent. People you probably don't know or see, but are still citizens with a right to vote.

I already provided adequate ID when I registered to vote. I can vote with my registration card, which lacks a photo.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:27:25 AM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


Maybe we should test it on Republicans first. You have to prove who you are to the satisfaction of a volunteer campaign worker selected by me or you can't vote.

I think that will work out nicely.
 
2012-10-02 11:27:29 AM
A judge on Tuesday blocked Pennsylvania's divisive voter identification requirement from going into effect on Election Day, delivering a hard-fought victory to Democrats who said it was a ploy to defeat President Barack Obama and other opponents who said it would prevent the elderly and minorities from voting.

This claim is entirely without merit. Democrats would have an audience believe that the governor of Pennsylvania was recorded as stating that the "Voter ID" legislation would enable Mr. Romney to win the state.
 
2012-10-02 11:27:41 AM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-02 11:27:46 AM

qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.


A whole lot of this in this thread, and every thread of this nature.

A small minded argument.
 
2012-10-02 11:28:03 AM
Does this mean I do not need ID to go vote in Mexican elections
 
2012-10-02 11:28:14 AM

kronicfeld: No, sorry, you can't throw up eleventh-hour barriers to vote and claim that they won't have a substantial impact.


I really think that in general, there should be requirement that new requirements for voting and other election law changes should not go into effect in the next election cycle. If they're such good changes, and not partisan in nature, then that shouldn't be a problem, right? Let the people vote on their representatives at least once before changing the rules about how they can vote.
 
2012-10-02 11:28:14 AM

Marine1: Dude, if you don't have an ID, you're off the farking grid these days. I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?


Good point, can you and your Republican buddies drive the people who dont have an ID to the ID place and pay for it so they can vote?
 
2012-10-02 11:28:17 AM

iheartscotch: The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.


Voter ID laws don't fix that.
 
2012-10-02 11:28:22 AM

qorkfiend: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.


You can get a free ID because of this law. Link
 
2012-10-02 11:28:24 AM
They had a segment on NPR about this law yesterday. They had a regular elections specialist and a Republican strategist. The conversation was basically like this:

Election specialist: Well, one concern is that there are elderly people who won't be able to easily procure a photo ID.

Republican strategist: Derpderpfreedomderp, if you're concerned, you drive them to the Social Security office.

Election specialist: Well, in some states, you can't get a birth certificate without a photo ID, and you can't get a photo ID without a birth certificate.

Republican strategist: Well, those people are exceptions.

Election specialist: Isn't voting a right?

Republican strategist: Of course it is. Everyone should be able to vote, no matter how difficult we make it.
 
2012-10-02 11:28:24 AM

WTFDYW: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

It doesn't prohibit you from having one. They cost money to obtain. I've heard they cost around $30.00 in this part of Ohio.


According to the Ohio DMV, it costs 8.50 for just a state identification card. Typically states also have provisions allowing the fee to be waived for low income families.
 
2012-10-02 11:28:29 AM

CravenMorehead: Voter ID is a fine idea. The problem is that Republicans want to push these laws through as fast as they can making it harder for people that typically vote Democratic. Students, minorities and the poor will all have a more difficult time voting.

Want to do it right? Do the ID part of the law first. Make sure every citizen has an ID (for free) so they can vote. Then put the ID requirement for voting through. That is, if you're really interesting in preventing voter fraud and making sure everyone can vote.


Part of the problem with that is a good number of people are dead set against any form of national id. Damned if I know why. There is no reason you can't issue a single card today that can link all my id's, passport included, and have it be the same on a national level.

As for the cost, I just renewed my drivers license this weekend. $24 for 4 years. and that is in Jersey, I'd imagine other states are cheaper. If you can't make a $6 yearly investment in something that is going to make your life so much easier, well, you probably shouldn't have a say in anything to begin with.
 
2012-10-02 11:28:32 AM
www.simpsoncrazy.com

Please subby, the dead only vote Republican
 
2012-10-02 11:28:36 AM

PonceAlyosha: It is a poll tax and thus violates the constitution. The right to vote is contingent on showing up, nothing else.


The right to vote HOW many times?
 
2012-10-02 11:28:38 AM

moothemagiccow: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

Photo ID. Handicapped, elderly and indigent. People you probably don't know or see, but are still citizens with a right to vote.

I already provided adequate ID when I registered to vote. I can vote with my registration card, which lacks a photo.


Then get them a freakin' ID so they can use it in the rest of their lives. Not having that little card more or less screws you over for opportunity in today's world.
 
2012-10-02 11:28:44 AM

hetheeme: qorkfiend: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.

Fine by me. If there were anything worth the taxpayers money to pay for, it's making sure that the elections are not prone to fraud.


Show me evidence of in person voter fraud and then we'll worry about the taxpayer expense.
 
2012-10-02 11:28:49 AM

hetheeme: Rwa2play: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Yes because it's Democrats AND ONLY Democrats that commit voter fraud.

Maybe you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.

Voter fraud help whoever has control of the political machine in the area. If Republicans win due to fraud, then throw those bastards out as well. The machine in PA is solid blue, so allowing fraud there helps Democrats out more than it would Republicans.

On any level, from any party, voter intimidation, voter fraud, and voter disenfranchisement are wrong.

If it means paying a little more from the state for a free version of the state IDs that are already issued, that can be used to make sure that one person, one vote means just that, then so be it.

oh and 2wolves: Bag of Hammers: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

*notsureifserious*

Lubbock TX, you make the call.

You are a bigot.


With regards to TEXANS? Bet your ass I am. But not with Texans. I make that call.
 
2012-10-02 11:29:05 AM
How dumb do states and their legislatures have to be? One state (Indiana) has already provided the blueprint for a Voter ID law that survived a SCOTUS case and came out with a 6-3 majority. Whether or not you oppose or support the Voter ID laws, the sheer amount of party stupidity and ignorance in the state governments is pretty shocking.
 
2012-10-02 11:29:18 AM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


State IDs usually cost money which violates the 24th amendment forbidding poll taxes. Interestingly enough, adjusting for inflation, poll taxes were only about $18 in today's dollars. So there was a time that even Republicans were concerned enough about the poor having to shell out $18 in order to vote that it became an amendemnt.
 
2012-10-02 11:29:21 AM

Dimensio: This claim is entirely without merit.


As is the claim of voter fraud.
Thus the return to status quo.

/Ha-ha!
//Suck it, butt-hurt titty babies.
 
2012-10-02 11:29:40 AM

moothemagiccow: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

They cost money are free. And it's not a state issued ID, it's a state issued PHOTO ID.


ftfy
 
2012-10-02 11:29:44 AM

NateGrey: Marine1: Dude, if you don't have an ID, you're off the farking grid these days. I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?

Good point, can you and your Republican buddies drive the people who dont have an ID to the ID place and pay for it so they can vote?


Hey, if they honestly want one, sure. I'd be happy to.

And please... there's no way I'm voting for Romney this election.
 
2012-10-02 11:29:49 AM

Alonjar: WTF? You dont have to show ID?

What could possibly go wrong?


Someone could spend a day driving around and hitting as many as a dozen polling places (given travel time and time standing in line)? Why, they could vote 11 more times than others...

Pennsylvania 2008 results:
Barack Obama 3,192,316
John McCain 2,586,496
Ralph Nader 41,520
Bob Barr 19,926


... resulting in less of an effect on the election than .1% of Bob Barr's supporters did.
 
2012-10-02 11:30:03 AM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


They do require ID, just not the kind specified in this legislation. The previous laws were working, why is there any need to fix them?

We do not need to challenge the young & poor to stop them voting. They're barely voting as it is.
 
2012-10-02 11:30:07 AM
Both parties have the same problem, just in different states.
Their cushion of dead voters and corrupted district vote tallies are old and expensive to keep up.
There are way too many new young, activated and insulted old, and brown voters showing up.

Suck it
 
2012-10-02 11:30:31 AM
Rule 2: Double vote
 
2012-10-02 11:30:37 AM

YouBWrong: done


Un
 
2012-10-02 11:30:40 AM

LineNoise: If you can't make a $6 yearly investment in something that is going to make your life so much easier, well, you probably shouldn't have a say in anything to begin with.


Why do you hate the Constitution?
 
2012-10-02 11:30:47 AM
If Fartbongo wins through the dead and illegal vote we're going to have ourselves a merry old time. It'll be like they throw a civil war and WWIII over the same weekend and everybody brings a friend.
 
2012-10-02 11:30:47 AM

Bendal: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Lots of people who are "poor" work at jobs that don't give them time off, or if they don't work, may not have a vehicle, or have to rely on public transportation that doesn't go past whereever the ID office is located and is open. Some states closed ID offices in areas of heavy Democratic populations, others changed the times they were open to very restrictive hours. Other states don't come out with the requirements for the ID's, so someone needing an ID may have to make multiple trips to the office to get all the documents.

/still don't see what the actual goal is, do you?


But, but, but; if the id card place isn't open 24 hours a day, and if there isn't a dedicated bus line; how will undocumented immigrants steal old people's identities?

I'm not being serious; but dems aren't innocent as lambs in all this. Some of the same stuff happens to the 3 republicans in the democratic republic of California.

Depending on the state; it's pointless to be republican or democrat. I think political parties should be outlawed; mainly because of the "us vs. them" attitude that pervades the system.
 
2012-10-02 11:31:18 AM

qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.


Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.
 
2012-10-02 11:31:26 AM

Marine1: Then get them a freakin' ID so they can use it in the rest of their lives. Not having that little card more or less screws you over for opportunity in today's world.


But you need experience to get a job.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:31:27 AM

Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?


Yes, poor people transfer large amounts of money and travel to foreign countries all the time.
I can see that Republican grasp on reality is as loose as ever.
 
2012-10-02 11:31:28 AM

kronicfeld: No, sorry, you can't throw up eleventh-hour barriers to vote and claim that they won't have a substantial impact.


Law was passed in June or July.....more like putting up a barrier at 3:30 in the afternoon than 11pm
 
2012-10-02 11:31:32 AM

Marine1: With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID?


Vampires.
 
2012-10-02 11:32:03 AM
I believe it is time to ensure the right to vote for everyone.  My three kids should be eligible to vote.  Its guaranteed in the Constitution fer chrissakes!!!!
 
2012-10-02 11:32:10 AM

slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.


Why don't you read the thread, or any one of the hundreds of other threads on this topic?
 
2012-10-02 11:32:13 AM

Marine1: NateGrey: Marine1: Dude, if you don't have an ID, you're off the farking grid these days. I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?

Good point, can you and your Republican buddies drive the people who dont have an ID to the ID place and pay for it so they can vote?

Hey, if they honestly want one, sure. I'd be happy to.

And please... there's no way I'm voting for Romney this election.


Neither is anyone else, but that is a secret.

Not even his "own" sycophants trust him enough to really support him.
 
2012-10-02 11:32:23 AM
 
2012-10-02 11:32:25 AM
Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.
 
2012-10-02 11:32:31 AM

Marine1: Dude, if you don't have an ID, you're off the farking grid these days. I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?


Your incredulity doesn't allow those without IDs to vote.

Weren't you the dude disparaging the military during the Libyan ambassador thing?
 
2012-10-02 11:32:32 AM
Phweew. For a minute there I thought I was going to have to show ID to vote...

.....after I verify my address then sign my name and have it authorized by two present voting officials.

I think I'll vote ALL THE TIMES
 
2012-10-02 11:32:40 AM

slykens1: I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.


Remember kids, if you lack the basic human empathy to imagine yourself in another person's shoes...

if you think everyone everywhere is exactly like you...

if you found yourself wondering why the poor black folks in N.O. didn't just pack the wife, dog, and 2.3 kids into the SUV and put a few nights at the Baton Rouge Holiday Inn on the Amex....


... you just might have what it takes to be a Modern RepublicanTM

Apply today at the segregated country club nearest you!
 
2012-10-02 11:32:43 AM

fireclown: PonceAlyosha: It is a poll tax and thus violates the constitution. The right to vote is contingent on showing up, nothing else.

The right to vote HOW many times?


That's the issue though. There just isn't much evidence that this actually happens and who it helps. Why it gets overturned is you cannot make sure thousands of people cannot vote because someone MIGHT break the system. Most actual election fraud that has been discovered this cycle is at a higher level than the individual voter (with both parties being guilty). I'm sure we'll find 3 total people on election day who break the rules and say that DEFINITELY means we should make it so that people have to pay for their rights.
 
2012-10-02 11:32:46 AM
Shiat, entire county results can be altered in an instant with the touch of a button or loading of Flash memory on an electronic voting machine or by modification of the centralized results database, and we're concerned that someone may drive around to multiple polling places in person?
 
2012-10-02 11:32:57 AM

Dimensio: A judge on Tuesday blocked Pennsylvania's divisive voter identification requirement from going into effect on Election Day, delivering a hard-fought victory to Democrats who said it was a ploy to defeat President Barack Obama and other opponents who said it would prevent the elderly and minorities from voting.

This claim is entirely without merit. Democrats would have an audience believe that the governor of Pennsylvania was recorded as stating that the "Voter ID" legislation would enable Mr. Romney to win the state.


Nobody said the governor. It was a state lawmaker.
 
2012-10-02 11:32:57 AM
Nevermind the complete lack of evidence of that being a problem in PA, subby. Simple logic: if the solution disenfranchises more viable voters than the number of fraudulent votes it prevents (by, oh, infinity percent or so), then the law is retarded and is itself a thinly veiled attempt at fraud via the system.
 
GBB
2012-10-02 11:33:09 AM

Chabash: What about rich old white people? Are they still allowed?


Yes, and they are given more time to vote because they are so busy with their job creatin' and whutnot.
 
2012-10-02 11:33:29 AM
AWESOME SAUCE!!!!!

suck it, disenfranchisers!!!! 
 
2012-10-02 11:33:33 AM

Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID?


So, what you're doing is pretending that all the cases of people who couldn't get the requisite photo ID necessary to vote in PA were fictitious.
 
2012-10-02 11:34:05 AM

Marine1: Driving


If you have a PA driver's license, you are automatically registered to vote.

I hated growing up in PA. Its probably the reason why I don't give a shiat about politics. Growing up in a rural area meant that a-hole Rendell would pass legislature to benefit inner-city, then the repubs figure how to rape the land and give jobs such as trucker to the state.

You both can fark yourselves.

/already left
 
2012-10-02 11:34:06 AM

I_C_Weener: I believe it is time to ensure the right to vote for everyone.  My three kids should be eligible to vote.  Its guaranteed in the Constitution fer chrissakes!!!!


Are your kids over 18? Because the Constitution explicitly sets that limit.
 
2012-10-02 11:34:07 AM

vpb: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

Yes, poor people transfer large amounts of money and travel to foreign countries all the time.
I can see that Republican grasp on reality is as loose as ever.


You forgot using a casino.
 
2012-10-02 11:34:12 AM

ChipNASA: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x245]

Don't ya'all fret none....its still gonna be RED. 

[www.dickdestiny.com image 448x292]

15/10


No one lives there.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-02 11:34:15 AM

Marine1: moothemagiccow: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

Photo ID. Handicapped, elderly and indigent. People you probably don't know or see, but are still citizens with a right to vote.

I already provided adequate ID when I registered to vote. I can vote with my registration card, which lacks a photo.

Then get them a freakin' ID so they can use it in the rest of their lives. Not having that little card more or less screws you over for opportunity in today's world.


I agree. But requiring such an ID to vote isn't going to help them, it's just going to stop them voting.

I don't know the cost required in rounding up the poor and photographing them, but I'm fine with it.
The DMV in my state requires 3 forms of identification and your dick length and doesn't tell you about it until you take the time to visit the office and wait to speak with someone. I'm sure some efficiency can be made there.
 
2012-10-02 11:34:23 AM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


Next time, try changing the rules BEFORE the year of said election, morons. That way the bias and racism isn't so explicit.
 
2012-10-02 11:34:27 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Marine1: Then get them a freakin' ID so they can use it in the rest of their lives. Not having that little card more or less screws you over for opportunity in today's world.

But you need experience to get a job.



Or initiative.
 
2012-10-02 11:34:32 AM
So Obama's Black Panther thugs are intimidating judges now too.


/el-oh-el-oh-el
 
2012-10-02 11:34:33 AM

Marine1: Opening a line of credit


You forgot buying stocks and bonds.
And booking that yacht on the French Riveria.
 
2012-10-02 11:34:54 AM

FlashHarry: old people and poor people who are still americans with a constitutionally guaranteed right to vote.


Is the Second Amendment still a "right?" Because here in NJ, getting an ID is the least difficult thing to do in exercising that right. Fingerprinting, background check, Firearm purchaser ID, Permit to Purchase, etc.... and I'll still never be allowed to "bear arms" only "keep."

But this works both ways.... Republicans can't be for Voter ID if they're against Firearm ID. I mean they can, but it's contradictory.
 
2012-10-02 11:34:55 AM

slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.


I did it for 6. Wasn't really difficult.
 
2012-10-02 11:34:59 AM

what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.


the ID is free the law was passed in June or July.

Leave it to democrats to procrastinate and complain about having to pay for something that is free......
 
2012-10-02 11:35:08 AM

hetheeme: "Simpson ordered the state not to enforce the photo ID requirement in this year's presidential election but will allow it to go into full effect next year."

Good to know that they can commit fraud just long enough to let Obama win the state one last time.

Nothing wring with the law in general, apparently, just that it would hurt the Obama administration.


Numerous people, in interviews, articles, blog posts, and here in this very thread, have pointed out what is wrong with the law in general. It is that it requires a state-issued ID, which is not free, which means that a fee must be paid in order to vote, which is specifically outlawed by the Constitution.
 
2012-10-02 11:35:20 AM
If you google "illegal immigrant voting" you will find about 8.5 million articles more or less.

There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

Obama beat McCain by 69 million to 59 million last election; this one is likely to be closer.

How many of those votes were illegal?
 
2012-10-02 11:35:22 AM

slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.


Explain why we need more restrictions on voting.
 
2012-10-02 11:35:23 AM
Well, this Voter ID push has just worked wonders for the GOP, hasn't it?
 
2012-10-02 11:35:28 AM
The battle is being fought now by Democrats to establish the precedent of voting without ID.

ONCE it is established, THEN the illegals will vote in droves for the Democrats.

If the illegals tried now, the backlash would guarantee that firm voter ID requirements would be put in place.
 
2012-10-02 11:36:12 AM

Theaetetus: I_C_Weener: I believe it is time to ensure the right to vote for everyone.  My three kids should be eligible to vote.  Its guaranteed in the Constitution fer chrissakes!!!!

Are your kids over 18? Because the Constitution explicitly sets that limit.



Farking constitution is UNAMERICAN!!!
 
2012-10-02 11:36:34 AM

olddinosaur: If you google "illegal immigrant voting" you will find about 8.5 million articles more or less.

There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.


... because every illegal immigrant who votes puts an article online about it?
 
2012-10-02 11:36:35 AM

hetheeme: Rwa2play: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Yes because it's Democrats AND ONLY Democrats that commit voter fraud.

Maybe you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.

Voter fraud help whoever has control of the political machine in the area. If Republicans win due to fraud, then throw those bastards out as well. The machine in PA is solid blue, so allowing fraud there helps Democrats out more than it would Republicans.


Except for the fact this law was specifically crafted in order to have Romney win PA AND it was even stated as such.

So no, in this case voter fraud was being done by Republicans in the form of a law which violates the Constitution.

On any level, from any party, voter intimidation, voter fraud, and voter disenfranchisement are wrong.

If it means paying a little more from the state for a free version of the state IDs that are already issued, that can be used to make sure that one person, one vote means just that, then so be it.


Fair enough; so long as the state pays for it.

oh and 2wolves: Bag of Hammers: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

*notsureifserious*

Lubbock TX, you make the call.

You are a bigot.


Evasion noted.
 
2012-10-02 11:36:56 AM

what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.


And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?

And we're now trusting polling place workers with inspecting IDs? With no training whatsoever?

All to fix a problem that does not exist in any significant way.
 
2012-10-02 11:37:01 AM

I_C_Weener: Okay...how can you be mayor and just not have photo ID? And why is she admitting to voter fraud in the 30's? Haha.


She's 94, doesn't drive* and everyone knows who she is. Why would she need a government issued, picture ID showing where she lives?

*Thank God for that, BTW. She nearly ran me over a few years back.
 
2012-10-02 11:37:05 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

A whole lot of this in this thread, and every thread of this nature.

A small minded argument.


THIS.

Republicans are so out of touch with reality, they literally cannot fathom poor people and their problems. This has been supported infinite times by Fox News, and is thus an undeniable fact. 97% of poor households have a TRASHCAN and a FRIDGE!
 
2012-10-02 11:37:07 AM

HotWingConspiracy: slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.

I did it for 6. Wasn't really difficult.


How did you cash a check? What span of 6 years was it?
 
2012-10-02 11:37:09 AM

moothemagiccow: I don't know the cost required in rounding up the poor and photographing them, but I'm fine with it.



Sure, they don't want to pay for an ID, and now they are complaining about being "rounded up".  WTF is their problem?
 
2012-10-02 11:37:15 AM
You guys do realize that in order to get on the voter rolls, you need to complete the census, right?

So all these people who refused to complete the census because Obama would then round them up and take them to FEMA camps will be the ones hassled.

And by hassled, I mean they will need to show ID or vote in a provisional ballot
 
2012-10-02 11:37:25 AM

what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.


THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.

From the government page linked just above:
Since the Pennsylvania Voter ID law was enacted in March, PennDOT has been working closely with the Department of State to ensure that every voter has the opportunity to obtain photo identification. If you don't possess photo identification for voting purposes, you will be able to obtain a new Department of State voter identification card for free by visiting a PennDOT Driver License Center.

How can people in this thread still be pretending that the normal $12 for a 4 year drivers license still applies here? That $3 a year fee is not even applicable, as these ID's are FREE.

// Sorry for all the yelling, I'm pissed that people are being misled by the Democrats
 
2012-10-02 11:37:26 AM

Theaetetus: Shiat, entire county results can be altered in an instant with the touch of a button or loading of Flash memory on an electronic voting machine or by modification of the centralized results database, and we're concerned that someone may drive around to multiple polling places in person?


It all adds up.
Dead voters
Corruption of results
Community organization
Voter enlistment and transportation to area votes are needed

Different areas have different cons. Both sides play, share the hate.
 
2012-10-02 11:37:30 AM

Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?


Don't you know that poor people are always at work and can't get off to do any of these things? Have you ever seen a poor person smoking a cigarette or drinking alcohol? I didn't think so.
 
2012-10-02 11:37:51 AM

moothemagiccow: slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.

Explain why we need more restrictions on voting.



Well, have you seen some of the morons whose vote cancels yours out?  Victoria Jackson votes.
 
2012-10-02 11:38:15 AM
What a wonderful country we live in where a judge can subvert democracy. The voter ID law was passed by a elected state legislature. And he did not overturn it, he just delayed its enforcement until next year. Sounds like someone paid the judge off.
 
2012-10-02 11:38:16 AM
so Republicans think that you can just drive around to every polling place and vote?

insertmorbo.jpg
 
2012-10-02 11:38:18 AM

TWX: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

I'd rather have this kind of voter fraud than the kind of voter fraud perpetuated in Florida in 2000...

I'd also rather see all states use paper ballots with optical scanners. They have a paper trail for manual counting and marking a line with a pen between two dots is about as failsafe as one can get.

Every citizen has the constitutional right to vote. Anyone who denies them that right should be prosecuted and thrown in jail. If states want all registered voters to have ID, then the burden should be on the states to compare their voter rolls to their state ID system, and to notify all registered voters without a record of ID that they need it, and then the state should see to getting them that ID. If not, the state is disenfranchising them through its own action.


With the exception of the dig on Florida, I agree 100%

Of all the things a state should be doing, ensuring honest elections should be at the top of the list.

/worth the money
 
2012-10-02 11:38:22 AM
How about we assume that there's a significant amount of vote fraud and simply reject 1% of the votes for each candidate?
 
2012-10-02 11:38:32 AM

Marine1: FlashHarry: Marine1: With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID?

old people and poor people who are still americans with a constitutionally guaranteed right to vote.

Dude, if you don't have an ID, you're off the farking grid these days. I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?


In Philly alone, there are roughly half a million people who lack photo ID that would have been required for them to vote.

Of course, almost all of them are democrats, which was the point.
 
2012-10-02 11:38:35 AM
I remember the first time I voted... couldn't believe I didn't have to show ID.
 
2012-10-02 11:38:48 AM

Giltric: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.

the ID is free the law was passed in June or July.

Leave it to democrats to procrastinate and complain about having to pay for something that is free......


Not charging $20 does not make it free. The DMV has set hours and a set place that conflicts with many people's work schedule and mobility. The polls already have these time and place restrictions. Why do we need more?
 
2012-10-02 11:38:57 AM

Theaetetus: Shiat, entire county results can be altered in an instant with the touch of a button or loading of Flash memory on an electronic voting machine or by modification of the centralized results database, and we're concerned that someone may drive around to multiple polling places in person?


This times a billion.
 
2012-10-02 11:39:11 AM

Aarontology: hetheeme: "Simpson ordered the state not to enforce the photo ID requirement in this year's presidential election but will allow it to go into full effect next year."

Good to know that they can commit fraud just long enough to let Obama win the state one last time.

Nothing wring with the law in general, apparently, just that it would hurt the Obama administration.

You should show us the proof that fraud helped Obama win it last time. or helped any politician in any race win.


Obama didn't need fraud to win in 2008. He won fair and square using the old tactic of "vote for me and I'll be your sugar daddy" that college kids are stupid enough to love.
 
2012-10-02 11:39:16 AM

Leeds:



// Sorry for all the yelling, I'm pissed that people are being misled by the Democrats BOTH ASSHAT PARTIES


small correction, share the hate where hate is due
 
2012-10-02 11:39:29 AM

Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?


I liked how you list things that only people with money do. You do have the sense to realize that poverty is a major disadvantage, though. Some of us try to focus on that, but then Republicans complain that poor people own refrigerators and get government cell phones.
 
2012-10-02 11:39:59 AM

Leeds: THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.



But its inconvenient.  And so are going to the polls.  I mean get out of bed and sometime between 6am and 8pm go somewhere in your neighborhood to vote.  Its unconscionable.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:40:14 AM

Giltric: qorkfiend: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.

You can get a free ID because of this law. Link


Really? Can you get one of these free IDs without an ID? If so, how is it guaranteeing anything? And if it isn't guaranteeing anything, isn't it just making voters jump through hoops for no good reason?
 
2012-10-02 11:40:14 AM
These F*CKING judges. Pretty soon all the congress, preseidents, and judges will be all democrats. I am sure people will find some way to blame conservtives or all our problems. Yea, it is OK to ask people for IDs for alcohol and smokes, but not to vote! nooooooo! I can't wait to vote for Romney. When Obama screws things up even more, I can say, Hey, you voted him in, not me!
 
2012-10-02 11:40:14 AM

fireclown: The right to vote HOW many times?


If multiple votes are the concern, why aren't Republicans pushing for the same kind of finger-dying they used in Iraq? Certainly some enterprising Republican legislator will find a way to make a personal fortune in dye sales by advancing such litigation.
 
2012-10-02 11:40:16 AM

Itstoearly: Obama didn't need fraud to win in 2008. He won fair and square using the old tactic of "vote for me and I'll be your sugar daddy" that college kids are stupid enough to love.


Which must be why the GOP is trying to make it as difficult as possible to prevent college kids from voting.

I mean, because they're concerned with the integrity of the system. Yeah, that's it.
 
2012-10-02 11:40:16 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?



Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap
 
2012-10-02 11:40:18 AM

I_C_Weener: moothemagiccow: I don't know the cost required in rounding up the poor and photographing them, but I'm fine with it.


Sure, they don't want to pay for an ID, and now they are complaining about being "rounded up".  WTF is their problem?


VOTER FRAUD. Turnout's over 300% in Pennsyvlania and it's all for FARTBAMA
 
2012-10-02 11:40:21 AM

snocone: Theaetetus: Shiat, entire county results can be altered in an instant with the touch of a button or loading of Flash memory on an electronic voting machine or by modification of the centralized results database, and we're concerned that someone may drive around to multiple polling places in person?

It all adds up.
Dead voters
Corruption of results
Community organization
Voter enlistment and transportation to area votes are needed

Different areas have different cons. Both sides play, share the hate.


Community organization is legal, so I'm not sure what you're saying.

But yes, 100 additional votes due to a group of people using identities of dead people is exactly the same as tens of thousands of additional votes due to one person with overnight access to an electronic voting machine. So, both sides are bad, and Sarah Palin is automatically president.
 
2012-10-02 11:40:28 AM
Can't we just dip our fingers in ink and do away with these shenanigans?
 
2012-10-02 11:40:32 AM

Giltric: HotWingConspiracy: slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.

I did it for 6. Wasn't really difficult.

How did you cash a check?


I didn't.

What span of 6 years was it?

18 - 24
 
2012-10-02 11:40:45 AM

olddinosaur: If you google "illegal immigrant voting" you will find about 8.5 million articles more or less.


That's nothing. You should see what happens when you google "Gagnam Style"
 
2012-10-02 11:41:16 AM

2wolves: hetheeme: Rwa2play: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Yes because it's Democrats AND ONLY Democrats that commit voter fraud.

Maybe you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.

Voter fraud help whoever has control of the political machine in the area. If Republicans win due to fraud, then throw those bastards out as well. The machine in PA is solid blue, so allowing fraud there helps Democrats out more than it would Republicans.

On any level, from any party, voter intimidation, voter fraud, and voter disenfranchisement are wrong.

If it means paying a little more from the state for a free version of the state IDs that are already issued, that can be used to make sure that one person, one vote means just that, then so be it.

oh and 2wolves: Bag of Hammers: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

*notsureifserious*

Lubbock TX, you make the call.

You are a bigot.

With regards to TEXANS? Bet your ass I am. But not with Texans. I make that call.


Gotta give you credit, at least you admit your bigotry.
 
2012-10-02 11:41:18 AM

olddinosaur: There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.


citation needed
 
2012-10-02 11:41:19 AM

Aarontology: "Simpson ordered the state not to enforce the photo ID requirement in this year's presidential election but will allow it to go into full effect next year."

Oh, the Republicans are going to be pissed off they're getting what they wanted, but not in time to achieve their disenfranchisement goals.


THIS

in light of the SAC job and voter registration fraud, i'd say as a country we need voting reform from the ground up. that being said, the time to do ANY of that is not 6 months before a presidential election. thats not even thinly veiled voter suppression, its outright blatant.

/IMHO illegal aliens should be allowed to vote
//just by living here, you should have a voice in how you are governed
///would be closer to democracy than what we currently have
 
2012-10-02 11:41:20 AM

Leeds: Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap


Good talk bro.
 
2012-10-02 11:41:28 AM

I_C_Weener: Leeds: THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.


But its inconvenient.  And so are going to the polls.  I mean get out of bed and sometime between 6am and 8pm go somewhere in your neighborhood to vote.  Its unconscionable.


I can pay my taxes whenever and wherever. Why do I have to get out of bed to vote? It's retarded.
 
2012-10-02 11:41:54 AM

Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap


Project much?
 
2012-10-02 11:42:07 AM

darkedgefan: Yea, it is OK to ask people for IDs for alcohol and smokes, but not to vote! nooooooo!


It's amazing how many morons think this is an actual argument
 
2012-10-02 11:42:17 AM

moothemagiccow: Giltric: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.

the ID is free the law was passed in June or July.

Leave it to democrats to procrastinate and complain about having to pay for something that is free......

Not charging $20 does not make it free. The DMV has set hours and a set place that conflicts with many people's work schedule and mobility. The polls already have these time and place restrictions. Why do we need more?


How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?
 
2012-10-02 11:42:24 AM

Leeds: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.

THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.

From the government page linked just above:
Since the Pennsylvania Voter ID law was enacted in March, PennDOT has been working closely with the Department of State to ensure that every voter has the opportunity to obtain photo identification. If you don't possess photo identification for voting purposes, you will be able to obtain a new Department of State voter identification card for free by visiting a PennDOT Driver License Center.

How can people in this thread still be pretending that the normal $12 for a 4 year drivers license still applies here? That $3 a year fee is not even applicable, as these ID's are FREE.

// Sorry for all the yelling, I'm pissed that people are being misled by the Democrats


I like how you missed the second part of my post: and make sure people have enough time to get one,

They tried to pass this law with less than a few months to get these. What do you think would happened if thousands of old people tried getting a free voter ID in the next 6 weeks?
 
2012-10-02 11:42:24 AM

Leeds: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.

THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.

From the government page linked just above:
Since the Pennsylvania Voter ID law was enacted in March, PennDOT has been working closely with the Department of State to ensure that every voter has the opportunity to obtain photo identification. If you don't possess photo identification for voting purposes, you will be able to obtain a new Department of State voter identification card for free by visiting a PennDOT Driver License Center.

How can people in this thread still be pretending that the normal $12 for a 4 year drivers license still applies here? That $3 a year fee is not even applicable, as these ID's are FREE.

// Sorry for all the yelling, I'm pissed that people are being misled by the Democrats


Kind of like how there's no purpose to have voter ID laws because voter fraud literally doesn't happen, well except for by the Republicans. But don't let the premise of your argument to have the law in the first place ironically shoot down your stupid post.
 
2012-10-02 11:42:56 AM

Biff_Steel: Can't we just dip our fingers in ink and do away with these shenanigans?



I would prefer every voter poll have an open bar.  If you vote, you get free drinks the rest of the day.  No one is going to then take the time to go poll to poll and keep voting.  Interferes with drinking time.
 
2012-10-02 11:42:57 AM

iheartscotch: The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

/ I know; I'm worse than hitler


And how does this law stop this? Also, what percent of voting population could that apply to, is it even as high as .01% ?
 
2012-10-02 11:43:03 AM

Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap


You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?
 
2012-10-02 11:43:06 AM
Well *I* certainly don't know anyone without photo ID, therefore they do not exist.
 
2012-10-02 11:43:18 AM
if this is such an issue rather than a last minute attempt to steal an election why wasn't it a major issue in 2009-2011 when there was no presidential election right around the corner
 
2012-10-02 11:43:21 AM

Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap


I'd love to hear your tune if they switched to online voting and your mother didn't have a computer.
 
2012-10-02 11:43:29 AM

vpb: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

Yes, poor people transfer large amounts of money and travel to foreign countries all the time.
I can see that Republican grasp on reality is as loose as ever.


I'm not saying that they do all the time. I'm just giving an example of stuff you need a photo ID for.

Point is this: regardless of what you think of the law (I'm indifferent), people need an ID, and if they don't have one, they're more or less screwed as far as opportunity in our society. Instead of pointing to minorities and the poor and disabled and elderly and saying "take pity upon them, they're just not able to help themselves", let's forget the Voter ID law for a few seconds and put some legislation that does the following:

Makes it illegal to deny a worker time off to go get a state-issued photo ID
Makes it free for anyone to get an ID if they so choose
Lets those who may not know how to get an ID or unable to get one in the current system get one in a process they can use and understand

And for the last freakin' time, I'm not a Republican supporter any more. Johnson will probably get my vote come November... which is a freaking disappointing election to get your first chance to vote for a president in.
 
2012-10-02 11:43:30 AM

I_C_Weener: But its inconvenient. And so are going to the polls. I mean get out of bed and sometime between 6am and 8pm go somewhere in your neighborhood to vote. Its unconscionable.


Can you get a voter ID at the same location at the same hours? No? You have to go across town and wait in a 6 hour line for a window that's only open for two hours on a Thursday, and if you're not in the front of the line, you have to come back the next week? You mean that one thing may be convenient and the other may not? Heavens!
 
2012-10-02 11:43:30 AM
I'm totally fine with having to present photo ID at a voting booth, so this law seems like a good idea. However, is the fact that they tried to pass it weeks before the election the reason that everyone is pissed off about it?

/Republican, non tea party
//still on the voting fence
///I know, even thinking of voting for Romney makes me the antiChrist, blah blah
////If only Hunstman had won the nomination..
 
2012-10-02 11:43:38 AM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


Given all the voter fraud the GOP gets away with constantly, it's been legal for a while. They won their two most recent presidential elections through it.
QQ more because you can't disenfranchise voters for your beloved nazi party.
 
2012-10-02 11:43:47 AM

Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving (this applies to urban poor)
Purchasing a firearm (only if you buy it from a gun shop or bought it in the last decade or so)
Carrying a firearm (only if you bother to get a concealed carry permit)
Cashing a check (no idea how check cashing stores work, but an ID that works there might not work at the polls)
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college
Getting a passport

Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol

Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it) - irrelevant for PA
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on


With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID?


They're called poor people. I've taken the liberty of striking out the activities that poor people don't do, and bolding the ones where you're just plain wrong, along with a few notes here and there.
 
2012-10-02 11:43:50 AM

Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?


The answer to both: Under the table jobs that pay straight cash.

They're pretty common.
 
2012-10-02 11:44:01 AM
This news makes my dick hard.
 
2012-10-02 11:44:02 AM

someonelse: iheartscotch: The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

Voter ID laws don't fix that.


Never said they did; I feel that each state should compare voter rolls and actually investigate duplicates.

As to the voter id issue; you are now required to show an employer your social security card and your id. You are required to show your social security card if you rent a house. You are required to produce your id if you are pulled over. You are required to produce your id if you expect to pay instate tuition at a college.

A lot of important things require Ids; I understand it is possible to loose your Id; I understand it is hard to replace a lost id. I feel that the most important right as an American citizen should be protected from fraud as much as possible. Would you be in favor of blood scans to prove identity as aposed to a physical Id?
 
2012-10-02 11:44:12 AM

hetheeme: 2wolves: hetheeme: Rwa2play: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Yes because it's Democrats AND ONLY Democrats that commit voter fraud.

Maybe you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.

Voter fraud help whoever has control of the political machine in the area. If Republicans win due to fraud, then throw those bastards out as well. The machine in PA is solid blue, so allowing fraud there helps Democrats out more than it would Republicans.

On any level, from any party, voter intimidation, voter fraud, and voter disenfranchisement are wrong.

If it means paying a little more from the state for a free version of the state IDs that are already issued, that can be used to make sure that one person, one vote means just that, then so be it.

oh and 2wolves: Bag of Hammers: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

*notsureifserious*

Lubbock TX, you make the call.

You are a bigot.

With regards to TEXANS? Bet your ass I am. But not with Texans. I make that call.

Gotta give you credit, at least you admit your bigotry.


When most of them support that goofball Rick Perry and rewriting science books, can you blame him?
 
2012-10-02 11:44:18 AM

moothemagiccow: I_C_Weener: Leeds: THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.


But its inconvenient.  And so are going to the polls.  I mean get out of bed and sometime between 6am and 8pm go somewhere in your neighborhood to vote.  Its unconscionable.

I can pay my taxes whenever and wherever. Why do I have to get out of bed to vote? It's retarded.



If you don't vote, the IRS won't come after you. 
 
If American Idol required voter ID, there'd be a revolution!!!
 
2012-10-02 11:44:22 AM

Epoch_Zero: Phweew. For a minute there I thought I was going to have to show ID to vote...

.....after I verify my address then sign my name and have it authorized by two present voting officials.

I think I'll vote ALL THE TIMES


i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-02 11:44:26 AM

WTFDYW: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

It doesn't prohibit you from having one. They cost money to obtain. I've heard they cost around $30.00 in this part of Ohio.


Also, they need to take time of their day to get one even if it is for free which could mean the difference between eating that day or voting.

Also with the provisional ballot BS they now have to take even more time off to prove thier voter status.
 
2012-10-02 11:44:31 AM
Widespread voter fraud has never existed. It's is a myth, a boogieman that the right wing invented to scare White People into thinking the n!gg3rs and sp!cs are going to steal the election and put Amurca-haters in charge. What has been a problem in the past for BOTH parties is election fraud. This has nothing to do with voters and they don't even know it happens. This is how George W. Bush won an Ohio district in 2004, when it was 90% Democrat and 65% Black and how he won Duvall County Florida in 2000, where some 39,000 uncounted ballots from Democratic precincts were found in a closet some months after the election. It's the same way John F. Kennedy won Texas in 1960. In the later case, LBJ was dispatched to texas with suitcases (literally) full of cash, to buy votes and pay off the right people.
 
2012-10-02 11:45:24 AM

Marine1: FlashHarry: Marine1: With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID?

old people and poor people who are still americans with a constitutionally guaranteed right to vote.

Dude, if you don't have an ID, you're off the farking grid these days. I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?


So, if you are off the grid, you shouldn't be allowed to vote?

All the CSB's about how "I don't know anyone without an ID" does not mean there are people who don't have one. I'd also like to know if the CSB people ask everyone they know for an ID when they interact with them.

As someone from Minnesota, and who watched almost every minute of the Franken/Coleman re-count, I can actually say "CSB, the chance of voter fraud is so small that it makes Voter ID laws not only frivolous, but uses taxpayer money for absolutely no reason."
 
2012-10-02 11:45:25 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?

And we're now trusting polling place workers with inspecting IDs? With no training whatsoever?

All to fix a problem that does not exist in any significant way.


I'm a polling place worker. I am awesome.

I agree- this is solution in need of a problem, absolutely. But I'm pointing out that there IS a legal and constitutional way to do this, if we decide it has to be done.
 
2012-10-02 11:45:57 AM

Disposable Rob: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

I liked how you list things that only people with money do. You do have the sense to realize that poverty is a major disadvantage, though. Some of us try to focus on that, but then Republicans complain that poor people own refrigerators and get government cell phones.


Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.

That's shiat you do no matter what your income level.
 
2012-10-02 11:45:59 AM

what_now: Leeds: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.

THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.

From the government page linked just above:
Since the Pennsylvania Voter ID law was enacted in March, PennDOT has been working closely with the Department of State to ensure that every voter has the opportunity to obtain photo identification. If you don't possess photo identification for voting purposes, you will be able to obtain a new Department of State voter identification card for free by visiting a PennDOT Driver License Center.

How can people in this thread still be pretending that the normal $12 for a 4 year drivers license still applies here? That $3 a year fee is not even applicable, as these ID's are FREE.

// Sorry for all the yelling, I'm pissed that people are being misled by the Democrats

I like how you missed the second part of my post: and make sure people have enough time to get one,

They tried to pass this law with less than a few months to get these. What do you think would happened if thousands of old people tried getting a free voter ID in the next 6 weeks?


Did you skip over my entire post, or just the part that said that these ID's have been free since March? As in, 7 months ago they became free.

Do these "disenfranchised legal voters" you seem to believe in wait 7 months before buying toilet paper when they run out? And TP costs money, unlike voter ID's...
 
2012-10-02 11:46:08 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap

You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Then they have to pass the "Well, who are you planning to vote for?" test. There's only one correct response and if they fail the test, they don't get to vote.
 
2012-10-02 11:46:12 AM
Marine1: "I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?"

That's just the thing. The law requires a subset of IDs. Keep in mind the legalese.
You can do pretty much all of the things in your list of "shiat you need an ID for" without a current, in-state, updated-address, contains-a-picture ID*.

There is no voter impersonation fraud *problem*. People keep looking for it, but it just doesn't exist.
This shiat is strictly about disenfranchisement of populations likely to vote democratic in swing states and that's trivial to see when you look at the facts.
 
2012-10-02 11:46:32 AM

iheartscotch: As to the voter id issue; you are now required to show an employer your social security card and your id. You are required to show your social security card if you rent a house


You are, however, prohibited from using your social security card as a form of ID when you vote as it is not a picture ID
 
2012-10-02 11:46:34 AM
fta: Election workers will still be allowed to ask voters for a valid photo ID, but people without it can vote on a regular voting machine in the polling place and would not have to cast a provisional ballot or prove their identity to election officials after the election.

In other words, photo ID makes absolutely no difference in anything at all, but the people managing polling places can still request it to intimidate the uninformed. Great.
 
2012-10-02 11:46:35 AM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


It costs money to get an ID, and it takes time smack in the middle of your workday to go to the DMV, time you aren't able to take off without losing any more money.
 
2012-10-02 11:46:48 AM

farkyinzer: I remember the first time I voted... couldn't believe I didn't have to show ID.


I bet you did, though, when you registered to vote.

That's how it works here in NC. When you register, you have to show ID that proves you live there. After that, you just show up to vote at your precinct, state your name and address, get the form and go vote. The poll worker checks your name off the list and that's that. If you change address, or name, you have to go re-register, and show your new ID indicating the changed address or name. 

/don't see a need for anything else
 
2012-10-02 11:46:52 AM

MonkeyAngst: Numerous people, in interviews, articles, blog posts, and here in this very thread, have pointed out what is wrong with the law in general. It is that it requires a state-issued ID, which is not free, which means that a fee must be paid in order to vote, which is specifically outlawed by the Constitution.


And yet, numerous states require photo ID to vote.
 
2012-10-02 11:46:53 AM

tallguywithglasseson: There goes Romney's last chance at winning Pennsylvania. If they can't keep the poor, elderly, and college students from voting three or four times, he's done.

Hard to feel bad about this.



FTFY
 
2012-10-02 11:47:08 AM

TheManofPA: The right to vote HOW many times?

That's the issue though. There just isn't much evidence that this actually happens and who it helps. Why it gets overturned is you cannot make sure thousands of people cannot vote because someone MIGHT break the system. Most actual election fraud that has been discovered this cycle is at a higher level than the individual voter (with both parties being guilty). I'm sure we'll find 3 total people on election day who break the rules and say that DEFINITELY means we should make it so that people have to pay for their rights.



Considering the GED lawyering that goes on after a presidential election, I'd say that it's a worthy cause. I can pretty much guarentee that if there is the rumor of the ghost of a chance that a busload of republicans voted in three different counties, there would be hell to pay. I work as a voter check in judge, and one of the things that voter ID would do the most to prevent.
 
2012-10-02 11:47:16 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap

You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?



I take it the term "provisional ballot" is one you've not come across before. Please feel free to look it up.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:47:16 AM

Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap


Who cares what the Constitution says? Not Republicans apparently.
 
2012-10-02 11:47:18 AM

Theaetetus: olddinosaur: If you google "illegal immigrant voting" you will find about 8.5 million articles more or less.

There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

... because every illegal immigrant who votes puts an article online about it?


I'm still trying to figure this one out. Do people think that illegals can't get an ID? What evidence would you use to prove that you're not illegal, and is THAT free?

/Thinks we should pass a law requiring a passport, just to hear Republicans scream.
 
2012-10-02 11:47:33 AM

Leeds: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.

THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.

From the government page linked just above:
Since the Pennsylvania Voter ID law was enacted in March, PennDOT has been working closely with the Department of State to ensure that every voter has the opportunity to obtain photo identification. If you don't possess photo identification for voting purposes, you will be able to obtain a new Department of State voter identification card for free by visiting a PennDOT Driver License Center.

How can people in this thread still be pretending that the normal $12 for a 4 year drivers license still applies here? That $3 a year fee is not even applicable, as these ID's are FREE.

// Sorry for all the yelling, I'm pissed that people are being misled by the Democrats


thats all well and good, but dude...not nearly enough time has been allowed to actually inform the public (particularly those who need this).
 
2012-10-02 11:47:41 AM

Epoch_Zero: Phweew. For a minute there I thought I was going to have to show ID to vote...

.....after I verify my address then sign my name and have it authorized by two present voting officials.

I think I'll vote ALL THE TIMES


Equal timez

i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-02 11:48:11 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Giltric: HotWingConspiracy: slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.

I did it for 6. Wasn't really difficult.

How did you cash a check?

I didn't.

What span of 6 years was it?

18 - 24


Crap. Here is a CSB and reality.
Bought a new phone yesterday at ITT store. Galaxy S III. Sweet.
They don't take checks.
Their credit card processor does not take debit cards.
OK, good ol'e Benjamins.
They don't keep change.

ID or no ID, you have to carry three forms of payment just to get by.
/ad we are all up in the twisties becaue of ID?
 
2012-10-02 11:48:31 AM
I can accept the argument at face value stating that requiring someone obtain a photo ID is to great of an encumbrance on the poor for a constitutionally guaranteed right. That this presents to great of a challenge for the poor to overcome.

However, that argument quickly falls down in comparison to how other constitutionally guaranteed rights are treated. The right to bear arms is supposedly guaranteed via Amendment 2. However, it is apparently not too great of an encumbrance to requires $431.50 in application and fingerprinting fees in New York.

So a few dollars investment for obtaining a photo ID is too great of a financial burden for one constitutionally protected right, while on the other hand it is perfectly reasonable to have people fork over hundreds of dollars for another?

"Constitutionally protected rights" should either be able to incur an encumbrance to exercise, or they shouldn't. But too many people think double standards are perfectly acceptable.

/pick one or the other
 
2012-10-02 11:48:38 AM

Jackson Herring: Well *I* certainly don't know anyone without photo ID, therefore they do not exist.


You know me. There was a period in my life when I didn't have a valid ID. My license was expired for 6 months before I got a "Non Driver ID" and that was only because I wanted to buy booze.
 
2012-10-02 11:48:42 AM
History of voter fraud: almost nonexistent.
History of voter disenfranchisement: rich, detailed and plentiful.

/White power: trying to cure to problem of the poor and minorities voting since Jim Crow.
 
2012-10-02 11:48:46 AM
How can you honestly, in good faith support these voter ID laws. The republicans have all but come out and explicitly stated this is to disenfranchise those who would vote against them.
 
2012-10-02 11:48:49 AM
PROTIP: Next time try not to crow about how the law is there to get your guy elected.
Oh and try to stop acting like greedy noncaring douchebags too..Just a thought.
Florida your next
 
2012-10-02 11:48:53 AM

I_C_Weener: Biff_Steel: Can't we just dip our fingers in ink and do away with these shenanigans?


I would prefer every voter poll have an open bar.  If you vote, you get free drinks the rest of the day.  No one is going to then take the time to go poll to poll and keep voting.  Interferes with drinking time.


And in other news, turnout is at a record 96%! Experts credit the state's new "open poll, open bar" policy.
 
2012-10-02 11:48:55 AM

Theaetetus: I_C_Weener: But its inconvenient. And so are going to the polls. I mean get out of bed and sometime between 6am and 8pm go somewhere in your neighborhood to vote. Its unconscionable.

Can you get a voter ID at the same location at the same hours? No? You have to go across town and wait in a 6 hour line for a window that's only open for two hours on a Thursday, and if you're not in the front of the line, you have to come back the next week? You mean that one thing may be convenient and the other may not? Heavens!



Sounds like you guys need to think ahead.  Lots of BMVs.  Do you see long lines for driver's licenses that require a 6 hour line?  Do it there...same neighborhood, theoretically. 
 
People who complain about getting a free ID, aren't invested enough in the process.  Not a poll tax.  Just an ID.  A free one.  Make it avaliable.   People cry fraud all the time.  Eliminate the small amount of fraud and the large cry by doing something simple that most people manage without even thinking about it. 
 
Getting an ID is not the travail everyone claims it is. 
 
2012-10-02 11:48:55 AM

Leeds: HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap

You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?


I take it the term "provisional ballot" is one you've not come across before. Please feel free to look it up.


Whoa buddy, why should they even get a ballot if they can't show ID, amirite?
 
2012-10-02 11:48:58 AM

Leeds: HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap

You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?


I take it the term "provisional ballot" is one you've not come across before. Please feel free to look it up.


Evasion noted.
 
2012-10-02 11:49:24 AM
Almost 250 posts into this thread, and there hasn't been a single thing posted demonstrating voter fraud that would have been prevented by requiring someone to present an ID at the polls.
 
2012-10-02 11:49:31 AM

OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?


The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.
 
2012-10-02 11:49:42 AM

Marine1: Disposable Rob: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

I liked how you list things that only people with money do. You do have the sense to realize that poverty is a major disadvantage, though. Some of us try to focus on that, but then Republicans complain that poor people own refrigerators and get government cell phones.

Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.

That's shiat you do no matter what your income level.


An ID isn't required to buy alcohol or cigarettes, which was already told to you. Occasionally you have to prove your age, but that's just the discretion of the shop owner.

You're reaching, and simultaneously pretending like you aren't bias. Just go the fark away moron. You've been shot down so many times in here you should be embarrassed for yourself.
 
2012-10-02 11:49:53 AM

what_now: I'm a polling place worker. I am awesome.


I know you are, and I remember you saying how most of your polling place coworkers are on the elderly side of life, which is consistent with every voting experience I've had.

We're supposed to trust them with properly checking IDs with no training whatsoever?

All to fix a problem that does not exist in any significant way.
 
2012-10-02 11:50:02 AM
Leeds:

So you approve of fixing a problem that doesn't exist and growing government in the process.

Please tell me your degree is in Liberal Arts.
 
2012-10-02 11:50:11 AM

someonelse: olddinosaur: There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

citation needed


Go to google and key in "illegal immigrant voting," and you will find about 8.5 million of these citation thingies you love so well.

RTFP, doofus.
 
2012-10-02 11:50:16 AM

Theaetetus: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

It means you have to schedule time off from work to travel to and wait around at whatever office or registry is issuing those IDs, and while that may certainly be possible, the closer to a minimum wage job you have, the stricter the supervisor tends to be about schedules. So, maybe it takes a month or two to schedule that time off. No problem... you'll get your ID in December.
... too late.

That's why it's unreasonable to push through a new voter ID requirement a month before a national election, while it's perfectly reasonable for the judge to say "fine, this law takes effect starting next year. People will have almost two years before the next national election to get their ID, rather than four weeks."

The only people who could possibly have a problem with this are those who were explicitly relying on this to unfairly affect the outcome of this election. In other words, complaining about it means that you're in favor of disenfranchising people.


That is a very fair argument, and I have no problem with that.

Disposable Rob: State IDs usually cost money which violates the 24th amendment forbidding poll taxes. Interestingly enough, adjusting for inflation, poll taxes were only about $18 in today's dollars. So there was a time that even Republicans were concerned enough about the poor having to shell out $18 in order to vote that it became an amendemnt.


Okay, so the argument is an indirect cost from a public entity violates the 24th amendment. I have to take a public bus to the polling place, thus I have to pay money to vote. Poll tax. I have a car and I have to have gas to get to the polling place. That gas has state and federal taxes. Poll tax. I have a car and I have to take a public toll road to get to the polling place. Poll tax.

I understand the argument, but I don't really agree with it because it's too broad. And it's not like PA has exorbitant fees on IDs. $13.50 without considering any low income/elderly relief, which I'm sure exists(for example, in California, seniors get IDs free and those on public support have a 75% reduced fee). I guess realistically it's not going to be a huge problem as sooner or later we're getting RFID chips implanted at birth.
 
2012-10-02 11:50:23 AM

Aarontology: Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

The answer to both: Under the table jobs that pay straight cash.

They're pretty common.


Tax cheats?
 
2012-10-02 11:50:37 AM

olddinosaur: There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.


Your ability to somehow tell who are illegals and which ones of those vote is impressive. You do dead people too?
 
2012-10-02 11:50:40 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Marine1: Opening a line of credit

You forgot buying stocks and bonds.
And booking that yacht on the French Riveria.


He also forgot buying sudafed or an M rated video game at Target. You also need one to sell items to a pawn shop, and usually have to present it if trying to ride public transit (if elderly or disabled) in order to get a reduced fare.
 
2012-10-02 11:51:09 AM
nice troll subs
 
2012-10-02 11:51:37 AM

hetheeme: "Simpson ordered the state not to enforce the photo ID requirement in this year's presidential election but will allow it to go into full effect next year."

Good to know that they can commit fraud just long enough to let Obama win the state one last time.

Nothing wring with the law in general, apparently, just that it would hurt the Obama administration.


There is nothing wrong with the law once it is properly implemented and there is time to ensure that every eligible voter has a reasonable opportunity to get an ID card at negligible cost.
I would advocate laws that voting eligibility, requirements, procedures, etc only come into effect for the next election cycle, so laws signed now come into effect for the 2014 mid-term election, whereas laws signed on November 8, 2012 (after the current election) come into effect for the 2016 general election. In addition, if the law is under legal challenge (though the 2-4 year period should allow most to be cleared up) within 6 months of an election are not put into effect for that election. Of course you need rules about when a law can be challenged and such to prevent gaming the system (say, if the legal challenge is not initially made within 3 months of the law being signed or and subsequent court decision that brings rise to the challenge).

AntiNerd: Of course people without what the local official considers "valid ID" will still have to cast a provisional ballot


FTA: Election workers will still be allowed to ask voters for a valid photo ID, but people without it can vote on a regular voting machine in the polling place and would not have to cast a provisional ballot or prove their identity to election officials after the election.

Not according to the article. However, an issue may be poll workers and voters not knowing the actual law on November 7, but each party should have observers to make sure it is properly enforced..
 
2012-10-02 11:51:37 AM

what_now: Jackson Herring: Well *I* certainly don't know anyone without photo ID, therefore they do not exist.

You know me. There was a period in my life when I didn't have a valid ID. My license was expired for 6 months before I got a "Non Driver ID" and that was only because I wanted to buy booze.


That was the joke you see.
 
2012-10-02 11:51:41 AM

Great_Milenko: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving (this applies to urban poor)
Purchasing a firearm (only if you buy it from a gun shop or bought it in the last decade or so)
Carrying a firearm (only if you bother to get a concealed carry permit)
Cashing a check (no idea how check cashing stores work, but an ID that works there might not work at the polls)
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it) - irrelevant for PA
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID?

They're called poor people. I've taken the liberty of striking out the activities that poor people don't do, and bolding the ones where you're just plain wrong, along with a few notes here and there.


You know, I live in central Missouri, where it's more or less Columbia and a ton of small towns filled with working-class or lower populations. I grew up in a major metropolitan area with plenty of disadvantaged people. I worked at a bank as a teller as a high school job. I know people, I know their financial habits, probably better than you do. I know you don't like facts, but don't try to can poor people as a bunch of people who do nothing but work and then go off to live in some strange land that they don't rent or own to not drink any alcohol or consume any tobacco.
 
2012-10-02 11:51:42 AM

snocone: HotWingConspiracy: Giltric: HotWingConspiracy: slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.

I did it for 6. Wasn't really difficult.

How did you cash a check?

I didn't.

What span of 6 years was it?

18 - 24

Crap. Here is a CSB and reality.
Bought a new phone yesterday at ITT store. Galaxy S III. Sweet.
They don't take checks.
Their credit card processor does not take debit cards.
OK, good ol'e Benjamins.
They don't keep change.

ID or no ID, you have to carry three forms of payment just to get by.
/ad we are all up in the twisties becaue of ID?


No, it sound like you need 3 forms of payment to buy a new phone from that specific vendor.

Owning an S3 isn't "just getting by".
 
2012-10-02 11:51:53 AM

Marine1: Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.

That's shiat you do no matter what your income level.


You don't necessarily need ID to rent an apartment, purchase tobacco, you can deposit checks without ID, and lots of inner city people never drive.

Again: your strained incredulity aside, the fact is there are a half a million people without the required picture ID in Philly alone.

I expect you've never seen an elephant in the wild either. Does that mean they don't exist?
 
2012-10-02 11:51:56 AM

ringersol: Marine1: "I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?"

That's just the thing. The law requires a subset of IDs. Keep in mind the legalese.


Good point. Not sure if it was PA or somewhere else, but a college issued student ID was not valid, while a freakin' NRA membership card was.
 
2012-10-02 11:52:07 AM
In practice, actual voter fraud (which is not the same thing as voter registration fraud) is extremely rare. And when it does occur, the typical causes are things like felons voting when they shouldn't, which wouldn't be stopped by voter ID laws.

So just like the "top state Republican lawmaker" in TFA alludes to, the purpose of voter ID laws is not to stop voting fraud.
 
2012-10-02 11:52:09 AM

DeusMeh: Leeds: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.

THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.

From the government page linked just above:
Since the Pennsylvania Voter ID law was enacted in March, PennDOT has been working closely with the Department of State to ensure that every voter has the opportunity to obtain photo identification. If you don't possess photo identification for voting purposes, you will be able to obtain a new Department of State voter identification card for free by visiting a PennDOT Driver License Center.

How can people in this thread still be pretending that the normal $12 for a 4 year drivers license still applies here? That $3 a year fee is not even applicable, as these ID's are FREE.

// Sorry for all the yelling, I'm pissed that people are being misled by the Democrats

thats all well and good, but dude...not nearly enough time has been allowed to actually inform the public (particularly those who need this).


I hear your argument, but how much time would be appropriate? It's already been 7 months since the ID's became free and it's on the news every single night. If someone literally has no id and they wait close to 250 days before accepting a free ID, who is to blame? I reject the notion that such a person exists.
 
2012-10-02 11:52:17 AM

olddinosaur: someonelse: olddinosaur: There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

citation needed

Go to google and key in "illegal immigrant voting," and you will find about 8.5 million of these citation thingies you love so well.

RTFP, doofus.


A google search for "olddinosaur ate my pudding" brings up over a million results.

Clearly, this is proof you ate my pudding.
 
2012-10-02 11:52:21 AM
Not sure how it is elsewhere, but in MI we have to vote at our registered prescinct, give our name which they check off the list, and starting at the last election show an ID. (Not sure if picture was manditory but I used my DL) Even if they just use the registration list, you say your name and you get checked off, no fraud. How hard is it to have a list? Forcing a picture ID 1 month before elections was sucky too, lawmakers.

/let the people vote, get these idiots out of office. Citizens need to plan ahead for next year. Control your govenment.
 
2012-10-02 11:52:24 AM

Giltric: Aarontology: Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

The answer to both: Under the table jobs that pay straight cash.

They're pretty common.

Tax cheats?


Off shore accounts?
 
2012-10-02 11:52:26 AM

vpb: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

Yes, poor people transfer large amounts of money and travel to foreign countries all the time.
I can see that Republican grasp on reality is as loose as ever.


Poor cash checks, buy booze or cigarettes, live places, or have bank accounts. I am not rich, not by a mile, but i have an id. You need one in today's world.

/poor and have an id since i turned 18
 
2012-10-02 11:52:30 AM

snocone: HotWingConspiracy: Giltric: HotWingConspiracy: slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.

I did it for 6. Wasn't really difficult.

How did you cash a check?

I didn't.

What span of 6 years was it?

18 - 24

Crap. Here is a CSB and reality.
Bought a new phone yesterday at ITT store. Galaxy S III. Sweet.
They don't take checks.
Their credit card processor does not take debit cards.
OK, good ol'e Benjamins.
They don't keep change.

ID or no ID, you have to carry three forms of payment just to get by.
/ad we are all up in the twisties becaue of ID?


How do you get a credit or debit card without ID?
 
2012-10-02 11:52:31 AM

Aarontology: Almost 250 posts into this thread, and there hasn't been a single thing posted demonstrating voter fraud that would have been prevented by requiring someone to present an ID at the polls.


You shouldn't be surprised.
 
2012-10-02 11:52:31 AM

DeusMeh: thats all well and good, but dude...not nearly enough time has been allowed to actually inform the public (particularly those who need this).


And time and spreading the word = money, taxpayer money.
Ergo, not free.
Also, even if the state pays, which means the taxpayers pay, it's not free because taxpayers are paying for their own IDs.

Kinda circular, but that's life in retard world.
 
2012-10-02 11:52:32 AM

Blowmonkey: How can you honestly, in good faith support these voter ID laws. The republicans have all but come out and explicitly stated this is to disenfranchise those who would vote against them.



www.troll.me

/should be good for a few.
 
2012-10-02 11:52:43 AM

Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?


Sample proper ID for an I-9: Day care or nursery school record + Social Security card

Neither of those is a proper photo ID for the purposes of voting. Your hair is a bird.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:53:04 AM

HotWingConspiracy: slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.

I did it for 6. Wasn't really difficult.


I don't think I have used a photo ID for anything in the past five years. I opened a bank account a year ago, but other than that, the last time was when I bought a car six years ago. I carry a driver's license with me, but that was the last time I had to show it to anyone.

It's kind of beside the point anyway. There are probably more people who don't have ID than people who can't read English and literacy tests were found to be un-constitutional.
 
2012-10-02 11:53:13 AM

bhcompy: I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


The poor may not have an ID because they don't need one. No car, no plans to travel outside the country. There may also be a fee to get an ID card, one which the poor can't afford.

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


Because the .00004% of votes cast that were proven fraudulent over the last 4 years is a big problem.

AntiNerd: Of course people without what the local official considers "valid ID" will still have to cast a provisional ballot. This will create a lot of uncertainty and confusion which the Republicans are still experts at exploiting. Look for the election to end up in court at the very least.

One thing about it that I found interesting is to see how the vote goes down among provisional ballots. That will settle once and for all just who it is that voter ID laws disenfranchise.


The story I read said that the provisional ballots are not necessary. They vote at a regular booth.
 
2012-10-02 11:53:33 AM
This was such an obvious attempt to disenfranchise Democratic voters it's not even funny. Motivation is the key to understanding these controversial laws. On 6/23/12, Pennsylvania Speaker of the House Mike Turzai gave us the proverbial smoking gun when he said that Pennsylvania's new voter ID law would "allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania."

Why would he say that? Because ID laws are not evenly enforced. I go weeks without showing a photo ID, even when one is legally required because I fit a particular demographic. The only time I am required to show a photo ID is at the air-port. The Pennsylvania law is more strict than TSA screening. If your passport or driver's license lists you as John Farkinson Doe and the Pennsylvania voter list has you down as John F. Doe or (by clerical mistake) John Farkenson Doe, no voting for you.

AFP (Americans for Prosperity) and ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council) have been funding these crappy laws. It's good this Republican judge realized any other decision would have been overturned by the state supreme court.
 
2012-10-02 11:53:34 AM
When the wife and I were living in Dublin in the 90s... a Council official knocked on our door looking to sign us up for an upcoming election. I told him we weren't Irish citizens or even legal residents.

He told us it didn't matter. If you lived in the country, you had the right to vote in elections.

Never verified that was true, but it sure sounds a lot more democratic and sensible than many of the restrictive laws we have in this country...
 
2012-10-02 11:53:39 AM
We should retroactively enforce voter ID laws, and declare all elections prior to 2016 null and void.

I mean, if it's such a problem now, then it could have been a problem the entire time, all the way back to Washington (can't count John Hanson, he was president under the Articles, not the Constitution).

So since it's such a huge problem, let's reset everything back to 1788 and start over, just to be safe.

// On a more realistic note, I personally support voter ID laws, but I do have problems with the specific methods of implementation and the timing. The fact that Pennsylvania offers a free ID in conjunction with the law only resolves one of the issues.

I believe that any change that potentially impacts voting in a major federal election through disenfranchisement should only be allowed in the two years immediately following the last federal election; that includes implementation of voter ID laws and redistricting.
 
2012-10-02 11:53:41 AM

ChipNASA: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x245]

Don't ya'all fret none....its still gonna be RED. 


Except for the areas where 73% of Pennsylvanians live, of course.

Pennsylvania has 48 rural counties and 19 urban counties. In 2010, nearly 3.5 million residents, or 27 percent of the state's 12.7 million residents, lived in a rural county.

Link
 
2012-10-02 11:53:49 AM

I_C_Weener: Theaetetus: I_C_Weener: But its inconvenient. And so are going to the polls. I mean get out of bed and sometime between 6am and 8pm go somewhere in your neighborhood to vote. Its unconscionable.

Can you get a voter ID at the same location at the same hours? No? You have to go across town and wait in a 6 hour line for a window that's only open for two hours on a Thursday, and if you're not in the front of the line, you have to come back the next week? You mean that one thing may be convenient and the other may not? Heavens!


Sounds like you guys need to think ahead.  Lots of BMVs.  Do you see long lines for driver's licenses that require a 6 hour line?


Uh, yes. Maybe you live someplace with not many people.

People who complain about getting a free ID, aren't invested enough in the process.  Not a poll tax.  Just an ID.  A free one.  Make it avaliable.   People cry fraud all the time.  Eliminate the small amount of fraud and the large cry by doing something simple that most people manage without even thinking about it. 
 
Getting an ID is not the travail everyone claims it is.


1) Yes, it is, because it's not 'made available'. You say that it should be done at the BMVs... Okay, maybe that's a decent proposal (it's not, for the reason noted above), but that's not currently where you get your voter ID. So, saying, "well, we could make it convenient," doesn't change the fact that you haven't actually done that yet.

2) If you were really concerned about fraud, then you'd have no problem with having this requirement start next year, since fraud will exist regardless. The only reason to slam it through in the next month is because you want to disenfranchise people in this election.
 
2012-10-02 11:53:54 AM

Rwa2play: Aarontology: Almost 250 posts into this thread, and there hasn't been a single thing posted demonstrating voter fraud that would have been prevented by requiring someone to present an ID at the polls.

You shouldn't be surprised.


Oh, I'm not surprised.
 
2012-10-02 11:53:56 AM

gilgigamesh: Marine1: Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.

That's shiat you do no matter what your income level.

You don't necessarily need ID to rent an apartment, purchase tobacco, you can deposit checks without ID, and lots of inner city people never drive.

Again: your strained incredulity aside, the fact is there are a half a million people without the required picture ID in Philly alone.

I expect you've never seen an elephant in the wild either. Does that mean they don't exist?


I'd have gone with narwhal.
 
2012-10-02 11:54:00 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: MonkeyAngst: Numerous people, in interviews, articles, blog posts, and here in this very thread, have pointed out what is wrong with the law in general. It is that it requires a state-issued ID, which is not free, which means that a fee must be paid in order to vote, which is specifically outlawed by the Constitution.

And yet, numerous states require photo ID to vote.


How many of those states threw the requirement up at the last minute with the stated intention to deliver the state to their preferred presidential candidate?
 
2012-10-02 11:54:02 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: I'm a polling place worker. I am awesome.

I know you are, and I remember you saying how most of your polling place coworkers are on the elderly side of life, which is consistent with every voting experience I've had.

We're supposed to trust them with properly checking IDs with no training whatsoever?

All to fix a problem that does not exist in any significant way.


Well, you still need to show ID now (or a current utility bill) if you aren't on the active voting rolls.

When the little old lady at the front can't find your name, she sends you to the little old ladies at the back who HAVE had training on this.

Of course, if you had to train ALL the little old ladies (and me) it would be a hell of a lot more expensive. There are about 8 poll workers at every precinct, and usually only two of them are "captains", meaning they have more training and more responsibility.

And yes, I'm usually 30 years younger than anyone else there.
 
2012-10-02 11:54:05 AM

sdd2000: iheartscotch: The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

/ I know; I'm worse than hitler

And how does this law stop this? Also, what percent of voting population could that apply to, is it even as high as .01% ?


Never said it did; like I said, states should compare voter rolls and investigate duplicates.

I also said; Ids are required for a lot of important things. Why not voting? Would you be in favor of a blood scan to prove identity instead of a ID card? It's not like a persons' blood type suddenly changes.

/ .01 of 300,000,000 is 3,000,000; 300 million is the population of the United States
 
2012-10-02 11:54:07 AM

Rwa2play: Aarontology: Almost 250 posts into this thread, and there hasn't been a single thing posted demonstrating voter fraud that would have been prevented by requiring someone to present an ID at the polls.

You shouldn't be surprised.


That's because nobody has first-hand knowledge of in-person voting fraud. There is none.
 
2012-10-02 11:54:09 AM

King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.


The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?
 
2012-10-02 11:54:14 AM

olddinosaur: Go to google and key in "illegal immigrant voting," and you will find about 8.5 million of these citation thingies you love so well.

RTFP, doofus.


I googled "aliens eat brains" and got 24,900,000 hits, er, citations.

I had no idea there was such an alien brain eating problem. And it's THREE TIMES the problem of illegal immigrant voting. I'll alert the media.
 
2012-10-02 11:54:15 AM

slykens1: qorkfiend: Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.

Funnily enough, if you want an ID to vote PennDOT will give you one for free.

Oh, and your nursing home ID and student ID are OK too if they have an expiration date.

I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.


Am I the only one who laughed at the though that the elderly were being told WHEN they expire?
 
2012-10-02 11:54:36 AM
0.00003% of votes from 2003 - 2007 have shown voter fraud. -Source: Bush DOJ Report.

Obviously one day in 2008 the soshulists woke up and decided to rape this motherf*cker blind.
 
2012-10-02 11:54:41 AM

Jackson Herring: what_now: Jackson Herring: Well *I* certainly don't know anyone without photo ID, therefore they do not exist.

You know me. There was a period in my life when I didn't have a valid ID. My license was expired for 6 months before I got a "Non Driver ID" and that was only because I wanted to buy booze.

That was the joke you see.


No, I thought you actually didn't know anyone w/o ID.
 
2012-10-02 11:55:03 AM

Theaetetus: I_C_Weener: Theaetetus: I_C_Weener: But its inconvenient. And so are going to the polls. I mean get out of bed and sometime between 6am and 8pm go somewhere in your neighborhood to vote. Its unconscionable.

Can you get a voter ID at the same location at the same hours? No? You have to go across town and wait in a 6 hour line for a window that's only open for two hours on a Thursday, and if you're not in the front of the line, you have to come back the next week? You mean that one thing may be convenient and the other may not? Heavens!


Sounds like you guys need to think ahead.  Lots of BMVs.  Do you see long lines for driver's licenses that require a 6 hour line?

Uh, yes. Maybe you live someplace with not many people.

People who complain about getting a free ID, aren't invested enough in the process.  Not a poll tax.  Just an ID.  A free one.  Make it avaliable.   People cry fraud all the time.  Eliminate the small amount of fraud and the large cry by doing something simple that most people manage without even thinking about it. 
 
Getting an ID is not the travail everyone claims it is.

1) Yes, it is, because it's not 'made available'. You say that it should be done at the BMVs... Okay, maybe that's a decent proposal (it's not, for the reason noted above), but that's not currently where you get your voter ID. So, saying, "well, we could make it convenient," doesn't change the fact that you haven't actually done that yet.

2) If you were really concerned about fraud, then you'd have no problem with having this requirement start next year, since fraud will exist regardless. The only reason to slam it through in the next month is because you want to disenfranchise people in this election.



Like I said, use the Indiana model.  Its free and avaliable. 
 
2012-10-02 11:55:06 AM
The judge will see his folly when the zombie apocalypse comes and President Unnggghhh starts forcing our kids to eat brains in school..
 
2012-10-02 11:55:24 AM
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/297891_420868611306103_617 631193_n.jpg
 
2012-10-02 11:55:27 AM

qorkfiend: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.


But then the Republicans would raise hell about the government tracking individuals for no good reason, because that's the first step to fascist rule. It's that kind of wail that's kept national ID cards off the table for decades, in spite of the problems of rampant identity theft and the known flaws in half-assing a people-tracking solution using Social Security numbers.

... or at least, the Republicans I knew would have been against mandatory government-issued IDs for everyone. But where they stand on this voter ID thing seems to belay that... I just don't know who they are anymore.
 
2012-10-02 11:55:32 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: I googled "aliens eat brains" and got 24,900,000 hits, er, citations.

I had no idea there was such an alien brain eating problem. And it's THREE TIMES the problem of illegal immigrant voting. I'll alert the media.


This is why i require aliens present an ID before they abduct me.
 
2012-10-02 11:55:47 AM
Another thought hey Republicans you really did dodge a bullet to be honest. If something were to happen where people could not vote or Romney did win by a slim margin, The GOP would be sued till the end of time.The Republicans would never hear the end of it
 
2012-10-02 11:55:49 AM

Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?


If something has to be paid for, it is not free. Taxpayers pay for the "free" voter IDs, therefore they are not free. Plus, obtaining the IDs requires citizens to take time, which is money, out of their lives.
 
2012-10-02 11:55:52 AM

Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?


Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?
 
2012-10-02 11:55:54 AM

Cataholic: FTFY


Yes, yes. I'm sure you did.
 
2012-10-02 11:55:55 AM

Marine1: Dude, if you don't have an ID, you're off the farking grid these days. I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?


it doesn't change the fact that you have a constitutionally guaranteed right to vote.

plus, there is virtually no voter fraud out there. sure, there's the occasional voter registration fraud - typically perpetrated by republicans, i might add - but there is virtually no voter fraud.

so, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. and it's a solution offered by republicans specifically do disenfranchise democrats. they've said so themselves. and for the "party of small government," creating laws to address nonexistent problems seems, well, strange, don't you think?
 
2012-10-02 11:56:09 AM

Giltric: How do you get a credit or debit card without ID?


Ask Bank of America.
 
2012-10-02 11:56:19 AM

what_now: Well, you still need to show ID now (or a current utility bill) if you aren't on the active voting rolls.


Right, you must be registered. A process that isn't broken, so clearly it must be fixed.
 
2012-10-02 11:56:28 AM
Anything that trolls the right wing is cool with me
 
2012-10-02 11:56:41 AM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


Yes because everyone can afford to skip off work and find transportation to travel in many cases to another city to getting a state issued ID at minimal cost. It not like they have to pay rent and eat. It like Mitt Romney told me, these lazy bums think they have the right not to starve to death.
 
2012-10-02 11:57:00 AM

2wolves: Bag of Hammers: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

*notsureifserious*

Lubbock TX, you make the call.


The bracing stench of cowpoop is everpresent.
And tumbleweeds.
And dust storms.
 
2012-10-02 11:57:08 AM
A judge on Tuesday blocked Pennsylvania's divisive voter identification requirement from going into effect on Election Day, delivering a hard-fought victory to Democrats VOTERS...

FTFY
 
2012-10-02 11:57:34 AM

strapp3r: bracing for derp


imageshack.us


Too late.
 
2012-10-02 11:57:45 AM

2wolves: Giltric: Aarontology: Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

The answer to both: Under the table jobs that pay straight cash.

They're pretty common.

Tax cheats?

Off shore accounts?


So you are willing to let people break the law over taxes but in small amounts?

Those 100 million tax cheats start adding up......

What if someone was on probabtion and they violated probation by using the internet....you willing to give him a pass...?
 
2012-10-02 11:57:50 AM

what_now: No, I thought you actually didn't know anyone w/o ID.


No, I was just making fun of a certain moderator. I've heard you tell the story before.
 
2012-10-02 11:57:51 AM
The republicker fascists know the only way they can win elections anymore is by only allowing the people who will vote for them to vote.

/Hey, it's worked before.
 
2012-10-02 11:58:36 AM
Conservatards on Fark: It's free, it's free!
Rest of us: No, it's not, it costs the person money to go get it and also the taxpayers. Small government WHAR WHAR?
Conservatards: It fixes a problem!
Rest of us: 0.00003% of the votes, dipsh*t.
Conservatards: ....
Conservatards: Dead voters, immigrants, derp!
 
2012-10-02 11:58:42 AM

justtray: Marine1: Disposable Rob: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

I liked how you list things that only people with money do. You do have the sense to realize that poverty is a major disadvantage, though. Some of us try to focus on that, but then Republicans complain that poor people own refrigerators and get government cell phones.

Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.

That's shiat you do no matter what your income level.

An ID isn't required to buy alcohol or cigarettes, which was already told to you. Occasionally you have to prove your age, but that's just the discretion of the shop owner.

You're reaching, and simultaneously pretending like you aren't bias. Just go the fark away moron. You've been shot down so many times in here you should be embarrassed for yourself.


It isn't required to buy alcohol or cigarettes? Let me tell all of the local high school burnouts to move to your locale so they can get their stuff without having to get an adult to buy it.

In Missouri, if you walk into a liquor store, there will be a sign in the store saying something to the effect of "WARNING TO MINORS: State Liquor Control agent may be posing as employee". If they sell tobacco, there will be a sign saying "WE ID" and a countdown clock saying "If you were born after (insert date and time 18 years ago to the moment here), you cannot buy tobacco products in this state".

So, yeah, you need ID to prove that you're not a minor in those situations. Otherwise, the owner will tell you to take a hike.

Do you want some pictures of said placards or do you want to bury your head even further into the sand? I can go take some pictures around town today to prove my point.
 
2012-10-02 11:58:52 AM

Aarontology: iheartscotch: As to the voter id issue; you are now required to show an employer your social security card and your id. You are required to show your social security card if you rent a house

You are, however, prohibited from using your social security card as a form of ID when you vote as it is not a picture ID


If they put your picture on it; they'd actually have to verify it was you.

/ bureaucracy always begets more bureaucracy
 
2012-10-02 11:59:10 AM

Rwa2play: Leeds: HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap

You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?


I take it the term "provisional ballot" is one you've not come across before. Please feel free to look it up.

Evasion noted.


Evasion? Learn to use the internet, boy.

From this official PA site:
Q: What if a voter shows up at the polling place without an acceptable ID?
A: The voter will be able to vote by provisional ballot. However, in order for the ballot to count, a voter must, within six days after the election, provide the county board of elections with a copy of an acceptable ID and an affirmation that the voter is the same person who cast the provisional ballot. These documents may be mailed, faxed, sent electronically, or brought to the county election office.


I await your apology, asshole.
 
2012-10-02 11:59:42 AM

I_C_Weener: People who complain about getting a free ID, aren't invested enough in the process.


They are American citizens.

They pay taxes.

That's their investment in the process.

Also, there's that whole Constitutional "right to vote" stuff. People say it's a "privilege," and that there's no "right" to vote, but that's bullshiat. Amendments 15, 19, 24 and 26 specifically refer to a citizen's "right to vote" - that it can't be restricted due to age, sex, failure to pay poll tax or age (if the person is over 18), respectively.
 
2012-10-02 11:59:47 AM

5monkeys: Poor cash checks, buy booze or cigarettes, live places, or have bank accounts. I am not rich, not by a mile, but i have an id. You need one in today's world.


Poor people frequently get paid in cash. The ones who get paid in checks frequently don't have bank accounts, and instead take them to check cashing places who will take 15% and not require ID and/or will simply check off a box saying 'checked ID' on a form without actually needing to look at said ID.
Booze and cigarettes can be purchased without an ID, particularly if you're paying cash.
You can rent crappy apartments from slum lords for cash without needing an ID, because they don't want to report the income to the IRS and if they have your cash, they don't care who the fark you are.

In short, you're incredibly naive. There's this huge world of people living by means you know nothing of.
 
2012-10-02 11:59:47 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

If something has to be paid for, it is not free. Taxpayers pay for the "free" voter IDs, therefore they are not free. Plus, obtaining the IDs requires citizens to take time, which is money, out of their lives.


So you got nothing?
 
2012-10-02 11:59:49 AM

I_C_Weener: Biff_Steel: Can't we just dip our fingers in ink and do away with these shenanigans?

I would prefer every voter poll have an open bar.  If you vote, you get free drinks the rest of the day.  No one is going to then take the time to go poll to poll and keep voting.  Interferes with drinking time.


This is, by far, the absolute best idea ever in the history of democratic elections.
 
2012-10-02 12:00:12 PM

coeyagi: Conservatards on Fark: It's free, it's free!
Rest of us: No, it's not, it costs the person money to go get it and also the taxpayers. Small government WHAR WHAR?
Conservatards: It fixes a problem!
Rest of us: 0.00003% of the votes, dipsh*t.
Conservatards: ....
Conservatards: Dead voters, immigrants, derp!


Considering Democrats are still upset about Florida 2000, I'd think that integrity of elections would be paramount.
 
2012-10-02 12:00:16 PM

Giltric: 2wolves: Giltric: Aarontology: Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

The answer to both: Under the table jobs that pay straight cash.

They're pretty common.

Tax cheats?

Off shore accounts?

So you are willing to let people break the law over taxes but in small amounts?

Those 100 million tax cheats start adding up......

What if someone was on probabtion and they violated probation by using the internet....you willing to give him a pass...?


No, I was comparing retail and wholesale.

I just knew I should have spelled it out. My bad.
 
2012-10-02 12:00:47 PM

Leeds: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.

THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.

From the government page linked just above:
Since the Pennsylvania Voter ID law was enacted in March, PennDOT has been working closely with the Department of State to ensure that every voter has the opportunity to obtain photo identification. If you don't possess photo identification for voting purposes, you will be able to obtain a new Department of State voter identification card for free by visiting a PennDOT Driver License Center.

How can people in this thread still be pretending that the normal $12 for a 4 year drivers license still applies here? That $3 a year fee is not even applicable, as these ID's are FREE.

// Sorry for all the yelling, I'm pissed that people are being misled by the Democrats



Ever lost your photo ID and had to go get a replacement? I have, and in Pennsylvania no less. Was in college at the time, and didn't have ready access to my birth certificate, social security card, or even a piece of postmarked mail with my name and address on it; my campus mailbox did not qualify as establishing residence. I had to get a birth certificate sent up from my parents, go get a replacement social security card (one weekday during business hours spent sitting in a shiatty government office in line), and the go get the drivers license (another weekday during business hours spent shiatty in a shiatty government office in line).

They may be free, but you don't just walk into a booth, get your picture taken and write your name on it. Students, the poor, and the elderly are less likely to have immediate access to the documents they need to get a FREE id, and the poor are less likely to be able to just take a work day off to go sit in line.


Another fun point -- this is PA, not FL, but in FL a big part of the republican disenfranchisement push is to prevent ex-convicts from voting. Seems more reasonable, right? Cause its just about the actions of those people, and not some correlated dog whistle racism? Well, in FL, ex-convicts are mostly majorities. In Maine and Vermont, which are both 94% white and have corresponding prison populations, the GOP strongly supports programs to let current convicts, regardless of offense, vote from prison before they have completed serving their sentence. You can continue making just blind, stupid, bullshiat arguments that this isn't targeted disenfranchisement; but the GOP's actions and policies clearly outline, "minority ex-convict should not be able to vote, while a white convict should."
 
2012-10-02 12:00:49 PM
Americans overwhelmingly want Voter ID to help prevent fraud. So lovely of the Dem libs to fight against ID.

Even my dog has ID, I guess she is not dumb and lazy.
 
2012-10-02 12:00:54 PM

bhcompy: coeyagi: Conservatards on Fark: It's free, it's free!
Rest of us: No, it's not, it costs the person money to go get it and also the taxpayers. Small government WHAR WHAR?
Conservatards: It fixes a problem!
Rest of us: 0.00003% of the votes, dipsh*t.
Conservatards: ....
Conservatards: Dead voters, immigrants, derp!

Considering Democrats are still upset about Florida 2000, I'd think that integrity of elections would be paramount.


Another moron who doesn't understand voter / election fraud.

Do you guys multiply by mitosis?
 
2012-10-02 12:01:13 PM
Excellent new.
 
2012-10-02 12:01:39 PM

Leeds: Rwa2play: Leeds: HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap

You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?


I take it the term "provisional ballot" is one you've not come across before. Please feel free to look it up.

Evasion noted.

Evasion? Learn to use the internet, boy.

From this official PA site:
Q: What if a voter shows up at the polling place without an acceptable ID?
A: The voter will be able to vote by provisional ballot. However, in order for the ballot to count, a voter must, within six days after the election, provide the county board of elections with a copy of an acceptable ID and an affirmation that the voter is the same person who cast the provisional ballot. These documents may be mailed, faxed, sent electronically, or brought to the county election office.

I await your apology, asshole.


That's half the story.

Link

County election officials will examine the provisional ballots within seven days after an election to determine whether you were entitled to vote in the election at the election district where you voted. After this seven-day period, you can find out if your provisional ballot was counted, partially counted or not counted by calling 1-877-VOTESPA.

You can vote, but your vote may not be counted - and you won't find out until after the fact.
 
2012-10-02 12:01:53 PM

IronTom: Americans overwhelmingly want Voter ID to help prevent fraud. So lovely of the Dem libs to fight against ID.

Even my dog has ID, I guess she is not dumb and lazy.


Where is the problem? 0.00003% of the votes from 2003-2007 were fraudulent. Do the majority of Americans want to eat paste too?
 
2012-10-02 12:01:55 PM

IronTom: Americans overwhelmingly want Voter ID to help prevent fraud. So lovely of the Dem libs to fight against ID.

Even my dog has ID, I guess she is not dumb and lazy.


Just dumb for hanging with you. Poor pooch.
 
2012-10-02 12:02:13 PM
Just incase fark nerfs my link because it is tooo long: http://bit.ly/PrXcnB
 
2012-10-02 12:02:14 PM

coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?


People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.
 
2012-10-02 12:02:19 PM

2wolves: I just knew I should have spelled it out. My bad.


Take those mental leaps in here at your peril.
You need to spell out the logical thought process: A-B-C-D.
 
2012-10-02 12:02:27 PM
Isn't this actually great news for the GOP? Now they can claim they were cheated out of the election by not just skewed polls, but also voter fraud.
 
2012-10-02 12:02:37 PM

Leeds: Rwa2play: Leeds: HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap

You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?


I take it the term "provisional ballot" is one you've not come across before. Please feel free to look it up.

Evasion noted.

Evasion? Learn to use the internet, boy.

From this official PA site:
Q: What if a voter shows up at the polling place without an acceptable ID?
A: The voter will be able to vote by provisional ballot. However, in order for the ballot to count, a voter must, within six days after the election, provide the county board of elections with a copy of an acceptable ID and an affirmation that the voter is the same person who cast the provisional ballot. These documents may be mailed, faxed, sent electronically, or brought to the county election office.

I await your apology, asshole.


Just as soon as you apologize for trying to pass yourself off as a good troll. You're not even smart enough to do that well.

Also: PLONK~! Welcome to my ban list
 
2012-10-02 12:03:09 PM

Giltric: 2wolves: Giltric: Aarontology: Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

The answer to both: Under the table jobs that pay straight cash.

They're pretty common.

Tax cheats?

Off shore accounts?

So you are willing to let people break the law over taxes but in small amounts?

Those 100 million tax cheats start adding up......

What if someone was on probabtion and they violated probation by using the internet....you willing to give him a pass...?


What the fark does this have to do with anything?

You asked how people can get by without ID, and now you know.
 
2012-10-02 12:03:11 PM

IronTom: Americans overwhelmingly want Voter ID to help prevent fraud. So lovely of the Dem libs to fight against ID.

Even my dog has ID, I guess she is not dumb and lazy.


Americans also overwhelmingly believe angels exist.

Doesn't make it so.
 
2012-10-02 12:03:17 PM
Actual attempted voter fraud that I, a poll worker, encountered:

I was working at the election checking people off as they came in to vote. One fellow- who was nasty to begin with- came in to vote and was FLABBERGASTED that I wouldn't give him a ballot. He insisted he lived "just down the street", which is absolutely accurate...but in a different town.

He tried to show me his drivers license to "prove I am who I say I am", but 1) I'm not the person to dispute address with and 2) he freely admitted that he lived in Cambridge, not Somerville.

By his reasoning, he should be able to vote "wherever", because he was only voting for the state wide election.
 
2012-10-02 12:03:18 PM

Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.


Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?
 
2012-10-02 12:03:47 PM

slykens1: I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.


You know, sometimes I struggle to understand how people can get through life without legs. Having legs that I use everyday, it's hard for me to imagine life without them. And that's why resist all efforts to make polling places wheelchair accessible.

Leeds: Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!! Democrats actually believe this crap


I'd like to hear a good argument why election day shouldn't be a mandated national holiday. Give everyone the day off to vote and volunteer at polling locations. Why not?
 
2012-10-02 12:04:00 PM

2wolves: Giltric: 2wolves: Giltric: Aarontology: Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

The answer to both: Under the table jobs that pay straight cash.

They're pretty common.

Tax cheats?

Off shore accounts?

So you are willing to let people break the law over taxes but in small amounts?

Those 100 million tax cheats start adding up......

What if someone was on probabtion and they violated probation by using the internet....you willing to give him a pass...?

No, I was comparing retail and wholesale.

I just knew I should have spelled it out. My bad.


It's not illegal to have money offshore...it is illegal to repatriate that money without paying taxes on it...that falls under money laundering.

But surely you knew this, but need something to shake your tiny fist of rage at.
 
2012-10-02 12:04:10 PM

what_now: Actual attempted voter fraud that I, a poll worker, encountered:

I was working at the election checking people off as they came in to vote. One fellow- who was nasty to begin with- came in to vote and was FLABBERGASTED that I wouldn't give him a ballot. He insisted he lived "just down the street", which is absolutely accurate...but in a different town.

He tried to show me his drivers license to "prove I am who I say I am", but 1) I'm not the person to dispute address with and 2) he freely admitted that he lived in Cambridge, not Somerville.

By his reasoning, he should be able to vote "wherever", because he was only voting for the state wide election.


I'm sort of on his side.
 
2012-10-02 12:04:13 PM

fireclown: PonceAlyosha: It is a poll tax and thus violates the constitution. The right to vote is contingent on showing up, nothing else.

The right to vote HOW many times?


Once. We rely on honor to make sure all but the most desperate vote fraudsters do their duty but once. Combined with registration and the stiff penalties, it has worked for several hundred years. Voter IDs are only for one purpose: To make it hard enough for some low-income, mostly democratic voters to say "to hell with it."
 
2012-10-02 12:04:24 PM

slykens1: I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.


That argument becomes bullshiat in this context when you consider that most of the original voter ID laws proposed carefully picked which IDs were OK and which were not. Many original drafts explicitly excluded student IDs, regardless of photo or expiration date; and explicitly included concealed carry permits, hunting licenses, and NRA membership cards, despite lack of photo and in some cases expiration.
 
2012-10-02 12:04:58 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Giltric: 2wolves: Giltric: Aarontology: Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

The answer to both: Under the table jobs that pay straight cash.

They're pretty common.

Tax cheats?

Off shore accounts?

So you are willing to let people break the law over taxes but in small amounts?

Those 100 million tax cheats start adding up......

What if someone was on probabtion and they violated probation by using the internet....you willing to give him a pass...?

What the fark does this have to do with anything?

You asked how people can get by without ID, and now you know.


The law is the law or we can look the other way.....its all relative.
 
2012-10-02 12:05:10 PM

tortilla burger: Anything that trolls the right wing is cool with me


THIS
 
2012-10-02 12:05:18 PM
I'm a little scared to look at the comments section of my local news site on this...

maybe just a peek:

"Most opposed to Voter ID know that cheating is critical to DemocRATS insuring victory. Such corruption!!!!Par for the course-winning-the cause-is far more important than the integrity required to win by the book!! This importance of the cause is illustrated clearly by 2 women-Elizabeth Warren in Mass. and Hillary Clinton!! Eventually, Voter ID laws will be fixed so they pass Constitutional muster."

"So thanks to the democrats , minorities can not be expected to do antthing on their own? They need government help with absolutly everything. Work,school,life,birth control,id's,etc."

"People wake up! We have allowed the wrong people to get in control of our country. The gay/atheists have positioned themselves in positions of power (mayors, judges, politicians) and have destroyed this country."

"Really? This is reverse racism......against those who want honesty and integrity in our election process."

"The USA is going to H fast,, Our country that was fought for by true Americans is a place of the past, Read your history folks, Roman Empire,, Its over,,,, Read your Bible ,, The book your Grandparents used and lived by,, That this Liberal sociery threw away... We as a country are lost"
 
2012-10-02 12:05:45 PM

flux: Leeds: Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!! Democrats actually believe this crap

I'd like to hear a good argument why election day shouldn't be a mandated national holiday. Give everyone the day off to vote and volunteer at polling locations. Why not?


I agree; I'll gladly trade Columbus Day for Election Day as a national holiday; Or at least a half day off so you can go vote.
 
2012-10-02 12:06:04 PM

coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?


300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?
 
2012-10-02 12:06:17 PM

thornhill: Isn't this actually great news for the GOP? Now they can claim they were cheated out of the election by not just skewed polls, but also voter fraud.


Didn't Al Gore invent that?
 
2012-10-02 12:06:34 PM

iheartscotch: someonelse: iheartscotch: The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

Voter ID laws don't fix that.

Never said they did; I feel that each state should compare voter rolls and actually investigate duplicates.

As to the voter id issue; you are now required to show an employer your social security card and your id. You are required to show your social security card if you rent a house. You are required to produce your id if you are pulled over. You are required to produce your id if you expect to pay instate tuition at a college.

A lot of important things require Ids; I understand it is possible to loose your Id; I understand it is hard to replace a lost id. I feel that the most important right as an American citizen should be protected from fraud as much as possible. Would you be in favor of blood scans to prove identity as aposed to a physical Id?


I am in favor of showing a shred of evidence that in-person voter fraud is actually a serious problem before spending tons of money to fix it. A fiscally conservative approach, believe it or not.
 
2012-10-02 12:06:40 PM

HotWingConspiracy: You asked how people can get by without ID, and now you know.


These people don't really want to know how someone can go through life without jumping through all the government mandated ID hoops they have to. They just want to biatch and disenfranchise people. Notice they always change the subject after their "BUT HOW CAN..." questions are answered.
 
2012-10-02 12:06:49 PM

flux: slykens1: I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.

You know, sometimes I struggle to understand how people can get through life without legs. Having legs that I use everyday, it's hard for me to imagine life without them. And that's why resist all efforts to make polling places wheelchair accessible.

Leeds: Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!! Democrats actually believe this crap

I'd like to hear a good argument why election day shouldn't be a mandated national holiday. Give everyone the day off to vote and volunteer at polling locations. Why not?


That's a debate that I'd like to witness. On the surface, it seems a pretty good idea.
 
2012-10-02 12:06:58 PM

Giltric: HotWingConspiracy: Giltric: 2wolves: Giltric: Aarontology: Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

The answer to both: Under the table jobs that pay straight cash.

They're pretty common.

Tax cheats?

Off shore accounts?

So you are willing to let people break the law over taxes but in small amounts?

Those 100 million tax cheats start adding up......

What if someone was on probabtion and they violated probation by using the internet....you willing to give him a pass...?

What the fark does this have to do with anything?

You asked how people can get by without ID, and now you know.

The law is the law or we can look the other way.....its all relative.


Yeah. You asked how people can get by without ID, and now you know.

Everything else is noise.
 
2012-10-02 12:07:14 PM

Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?


A) Deflection.
B) 0.01% is much greater than 0.00003%
 
2012-10-02 12:07:14 PM

IronTom: overwhelmingly


multimedia.billybrew.com
 
2012-10-02 12:08:52 PM

IronTom: Americans overwhelmingly want Voter ID to help prevent fraud.


To say there is fraud, you must first prove it exists.
The judge wasn't convinced.

/Don't like it? Get a lawyer and take your own first-hand knowledge of in-person voting fraud in Pennsylvania to that judge. Quick!
 
2012-10-02 12:09:05 PM

hetheeme: Rwa2play: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Yes because it's Democrats AND ONLY Democrats that commit voter fraud.

Maybe you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.

Voter fraud help whoever has control of the political machine in the area. If Republicans win due to fraud, then throw those bastards out as well. The machine in PA is solid blue, so allowing fraud there helps Democrats out more than it would Republicans.


Again, you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.
 
2012-10-02 12:09:08 PM

Leeds: That's a debate that I'd like to witness. On the surface, it seems a pretty good idea.


Except that even on a national holiday, there are still places open - gas stations, restaurants, convenience stores, grocery stores, etc. And who works on holidays? Poor people who really need the overtime.
Make it a two-day holiday with a requirement that no worker can work both days, and you'd have something though.
 
2012-10-02 12:09:14 PM

SilentStrider: This headline sucks, mine was better.


Well bless your heart.
 
2012-10-02 12:09:37 PM

Brontes: Making it harder for people to vote vs. the extremely small amount of voter fraud that occurs is just not a good trade off.


Considering Presidential elections have come down to literally a handful of votes in at least three cases, it's not the overall amount of voting fraud that's the problem, it's the strategic and intentional use of it in a limited role that's dangerous.
 
2012-10-02 12:09:37 PM

coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?

A) Deflection.
B) 0.01% is much greater than 0.00003%


Also:

C) So you admit there's no problem by linking this to something you perceive isn't problematic.
D) There has never been a margin that razor thin where voter fraud has decided an election, also, 30K people die, they're not coming back.
 
2012-10-02 12:10:00 PM
Not that I disagree in principle with ID EVENTUALLY being required to vote, but why is the party of "small government" creating more red tape when so little actual fraud exists?

And why is the party that cries "foul" when ANY inconvenience is imposed on the RIGHT to "keep and bear" arms (an activity that kills thousands yearly) deadset on putting up roadblocks to the RIGHT to vote?

Can't the same counter-arguments be used? Won't real fraudsters find a way to fake ID's, just like "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns", and "he would've stabbed someone if he didn't have a gun because criminals will find a way"? 

I guess it's kind of like being a fundamentalist Christian who's supposed to "love thy neighbor" but at the same time froths at the mouth about Ayn Rand and how poor people are just "lazy" and "entitled" socialists who should be allowed to die.
 
2012-10-02 12:10:09 PM
a very simple way to prevent voter fraud. finger/thumbprint id scanners at every poll station. We would have a nationwide database and compare to see if you have voted twice.

no names, or addresses taken. it would simply compare your print to see if you voted already. 

/we should have the technology to do this, right?
 
2012-10-02 12:10:54 PM

theknuckler_33: hetheeme: The machine in PA is solid blue, so allowing fraud there helps Democrats out more than it would Republicans.

Again, you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.


cache.blippitt.com
That's pretty blue.
 
2012-10-02 12:10:58 PM
How long does it normally take the DMV to process an application for a photo ID?
 
2012-10-02 12:11:23 PM

ChipNASA: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x245]

Don't ya'all fret none....its still gonna be RED. 

[www.dickdestiny.com image 448x292]

15/10


Except where most of the population, businesses and money are.
 
2012-10-02 12:11:43 PM

someonelse: I am in favor of showing a shred of evidence that in-person voter fraud is actually a serious problem before spending tons of money to fix it. A fiscally conservative approach, believe it or not.


But you see, this is the Grover Norquist model of bleeding the government beast dead.
That these voter IDs cost taxpayer money is exactly the point.
 
2012-10-02 12:12:00 PM

coeyagi: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?

A) Deflection.
B) 0.01% is much greater than 0.00003%

Also:

C) So you admit there's no problem by linking this to something you perceive isn't problematic.
D) There has never been a margin that razor thin where voter fraud has decided an election, also, 30K people die, they're not coming back.


But they may be voting somewhere....
 
2012-10-02 12:12:17 PM
I see there is an avalanche of liberal derp...

/still trying to figure out why Texas was struck down
//Free ID and a free ride to go get it...
 
2012-10-02 12:12:33 PM

theknuckler_33: Election workers will still be allowed to ask voters for a valid photo ID, but people without it can vote on a regular voting machine in the polling place and would not have to cast a provisional ballot or prove their identity to election officials after the election.

So, do I refuse to show my ID if I am asked?


Refuse to show ID and call an election observer to report the incident.
 
2012-10-02 12:12:45 PM

Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?


How about we actually focus on the fact that only one of the things on your list is a Constitutional right, as is voting. You know, because this about rights not just doing things many of which can be done on any given day, which voting can't. And getting an ID can't, as most state offices aren't open evenings, or late on Saturdays, or at all on Sundays. so your list isn't really relevant to having an ID to Vote. (With the possible exception of buying a fire arm.)
 
2012-10-02 12:13:01 PM

Giltric: coeyagi: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?

A) Deflection.
B) 0.01% is much greater than 0.00003%

Also:

C) So you admit there's no problem by linking this to something you perceive isn't problematic.
D) There has never been a margin that razor thin where voter fraud has decided an election, also, 30K people die, they're not coming back.

But they may be voting somewhere....


And congrats, Mensa candidate, you just described "election fraud", not "voter fraud".
 
2012-10-02 12:13:15 PM

ltdanman44: a very simple way to prevent voter fraud. finger/thumbprint id scanners at every poll station. We would have a nationwide database and compare to see if you have voted twice.


It's hard enough to get people to vote once. Implementing a massive system to stop them from voting twice is a solution to a non-problem.
 
2012-10-02 12:13:17 PM

ltdanman44: a very simple way to prevent voter fraud. finger/thumbprint id scanners at every poll station. We would have a nationwide database and compare to see if you have voted twice.

no names, or addresses taken. it would simply compare your print to see if you voted already. 

/we should have the technology to do this, right?


And hey, since we've got the thumbprints anyway, let's just run them against the FBI's database. Why, it'll help catch criminals, and don't you want that? Or at least, it'll help catch potential suspects.
And of course, since we're not collecting names or addresses, we need some way to nab those suspects, so let's station a police officer next to each scanner. You put your thumb on the scanner, a red light flashes, and you get immediately tased and arrested. It'll help prevent terrorism, too.
 
2012-10-02 12:13:40 PM

Theaetetus: theknuckler_33: hetheeme: The machine in PA is solid blue, so allowing fraud there helps Democrats out more than it would Republicans.

Again, you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.

[cache.blippitt.com image 365x285]
That's pretty blue.


I thought Diebold changed the name of their voting systems unit? They didn't want their crappy voting devices to sully their reputation for ATMs.
 
2012-10-02 12:14:06 PM

Maul555: I see there is an avalanche of liberal derp...

/still trying to figure out why Texas was struck down
//Free ID and a free ride to go get it...


Was it struck down completely, or was implementation delayed?
 
2012-10-02 12:14:06 PM

Maul555: I see there is an avalanche of liberal derp...

/still trying to figure out why Texas was struck down
//Free ID and a free ride to go get it...


Liberal derp?

National Education Rankings 2008:

Blue States: Average of 20.5
Red States: Average of 32.4.

Derp away, red state derper.
 
2012-10-02 12:14:46 PM

Maul555: I see there is an avalanche of liberal derp...

/still trying to figure out why Texas was struck down
//Free ID and a free ride to go get it...


If the government provides something, it isn't "free."
Do you also own a "free" mobility scooter?
 
2012-10-02 12:15:21 PM

Enigmamf: Theaetetus: theknuckler_33: hetheeme: The machine in PA is solid blue, so allowing fraud there helps Democrats out more than it would Republicans.

Again, you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.

[cache.blippitt.com image 365x285]
That's pretty blue.

I thought Diebold changed the name of their voting systems unit? They didn't want their crappy voting devices to sully their reputation for ATMs.


Right, they're now known as Xe Services.
 
2012-10-02 12:15:39 PM

Wolf_Cub: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

How about we actually focus on the fact that only one of the things on your list is a Constitutional right, as is voting. You know, because this about rights not just doing things many of which can be done on any given day, which voting can't. And getting an ID can't, as most state offices aren't open evenings, or late on Saturdays, or at all on Sundays. so your list isn't really relevant to having an ID to Vote. (With the possible exception of buying a fire arm.)


Then forget about the law, as I said, and fix it to where these people CAN get them.
 
2012-10-02 12:15:51 PM
I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.
 
2012-10-02 12:15:51 PM

dustygrimp: Because the .00004% of votes cast that were proven fraudulent over the last 4 years is a big problem.


Margin of victory for Kennedy over Nixon, 1960: 0.013%.
Margin of victory for Bush over Gore, 2000: 0.002%.

It doesn't necessarily take much to swing an election.
 
2012-10-02 12:16:46 PM

Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?


A factor of 1000, a false equivilency, and the fact that one of those consequences is an additional vote, where the other is a dead person.

Are you that much of an imbecile to think you had a real argument?
 
2012-10-02 12:17:05 PM

grahambhg: Just incase fark nerfs my link because it is tooo long: http://bit.ly/PrXcnB


Multiple fail.
*checks profile*.."Florida".
lulz.
 
2012-10-02 12:17:25 PM

Eagles409: I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.


Perhaps not getting an ID makes them more intelligent than you.
 
2012-10-02 12:17:25 PM
Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to get married
to receive a marriage license
to drive
to buy a house
to close on a house
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job
to get a post office box
to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment
rent a hotel room
rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment
receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes
buy alcohol
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone
buy any antihistimine
go in to a casino
go in to a bar
go to college
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office
pick up a package from fed ex
pick up a package from ups
pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?
 
2012-10-02 12:17:26 PM

flux: I'd like to hear a good argument why election day shouldn't be a mandated national holiday. Give everyone the day off to vote and volunteer at polling locations. Why not?


And/or, move it from Tuesday to Saturday.
 
2012-10-02 12:17:28 PM

Eagles409: I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.


We assume that there are costs to getting the free card that you aren't considering because you're too stupid to understand logistics, breathing, or the square root of 4.
 
2012-10-02 12:17:43 PM

someonelse: iheartscotch: someonelse: iheartscotch: The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

Voter ID laws don't fix that.

Never said they did; I feel that each state should compare voter rolls and actually investigate duplicates.

As to the voter id issue; you are now required to show an employer your social security card and your id. You are required to show your social security card if you rent a house. You are required to produce your id if you are pulled over. You are required to produce your id if you expect to pay instate tuition at a college.

A lot of important things require Ids; I understand it is possible to loose your Id; I understand it is hard to replace a lost id. I feel that the most important right as an American citizen should be protected from fraud as much as possible. Would you be in favor of blood scans to prove identity as aposed to a physical Id?

I am in favor of showing a shred of evidence that in-person voter fraud is actually a serious problem before spending tons of money to fix it. A fiscally conservative approach, believe it or not.


So; if Romney wins in November; you won't complain if a few thousand votes were fraudulent. A few thousand votes could easily be the margin for victory.
 
2012-10-02 12:17:58 PM
This headline is missing several words. I know what they are:

And if you're not down with that Tom, we've got two words for ya... SUCK IT
 
2012-10-02 12:18:04 PM

This text is now purple: dustygrimp: Because the .00004% of votes cast that were proven fraudulent over the last 4 years is a big problem.

Margin of victory for Kennedy over Nixon, 1960: 0.013%.
Margin of victory for Bush over Gore, 2000: 0.002%.

It doesn't necessarily take much to swing an election.


You realize that you're three and two orders of magnitude off, respectively?

24.media.tumblr.com
What an order of magnitude may look like.
 
2012-10-02 12:18:15 PM

bhcompy: Considering Democrats are still upset about Florida 2000, I'd think that integrity of elections would be paramount.


As with everything political, it matters when and who has what to lose. Not about increasing integrity. Honestly the they're too poor argument is pretty silly though.
 
2012-10-02 12:18:51 PM

Bendal: I bet you did, though, when you registered to vote.

That's how it works here in NC. When you register, you have to show ID that proves you live there. After that, you just show up to vote at your precinct, state your name and address, get the form and go vote. The poll worker checks your name off the list and that's that. If you change address, or name, you have to go re-register, and show your new ID indicating the changed address or name.


So if these people that are complaining already showed ID once to register, what's the big deal? Clearly they have ID, right?
 
2012-10-02 12:18:59 PM

Eagles409: I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.


Why are you projecting your own stereotypes of people?
 
2012-10-02 12:19:24 PM

Eagles409: I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.


If you're looking for the most recent GOP voter ID talking point, this is it. This, exactly, all over twitter.
 
2012-10-02 12:19:28 PM
ct.fra.bz
 
2012-10-02 12:20:06 PM

Theaetetus: Except that even on a national holiday, there are still places open - gas stations, restaurants, convenience stores, grocery stores, etc. And who works on holidays? Poor people who really need the overtime.
Make it a two-day holiday with a requirement that no worker can work both days, and you'd have something though.


It could be done in one day if shifts are split so everyone has at least a 4 hour window to vote.
But I like this two days idea. Cast your ballot and head to the bar. Spend the rest of the day drinking and yelling at the television as the results come in, and then you have a whole day after that to recover.
 
2012-10-02 12:20:25 PM

Rwa2play: Eagles409: I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.

Why are you projecting your own stereotypes of people?


Because it's a troll, baby!
A paid shill.
 
2012-10-02 12:20:39 PM

olddinosaur: someonelse: olddinosaur: There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

citation needed

Go to google and key in "illegal immigrant voting," and you will find about 8.5 million of these citation thingies you love so well.

RTFP, doofus.


I located approximately 5,600,000 "citations" for the claim that Bush is a war criminal. For what reason, then, has he not been brought to trial?

/Citing the number of results from a Google search is effectively an admission of an inability to support a claim.
 
2012-10-02 12:20:47 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Eagles409: I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.

If you're looking for the most recent GOP voter ID talking point, this is it. This, exactly, all over twitter.


That, and they'd never voter for Romney any way.

//well, they won't now, dipsh*t
 
2012-10-02 12:20:47 PM

Maul555: I see there is an avalanche of liberal derp...

/still trying to figure out why Texas was struck down
//Free ID and a free ride to go get it...


Sounds racist
 
2012-10-02 12:21:04 PM

iheartscotch: So; if Romney wins in November; you won't complain if a few thousand votes were fraudulent. A few thousand votes could easily be the margin for victory.


Voter ID laws do not stop fraudulent voting, which is typically caused by people who already have valid IDs.
 
2012-10-02 12:21:09 PM

Eagles409: I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.


I love how some Conservatives, such as yourself, just assume that ID cards, at least ones that are issued by a state or federal government, are free.
 
2012-10-02 12:21:20 PM

Theaetetus: Alonjar: WTF? You dont have to show ID?

What could possibly go wrong?

Someone could spend a day driving around and hitting as many as a dozen polling places (given travel time and time standing in line)? Why, they could vote 11 more times than others...

Pennsylvania 2008 results:
Barack Obama 3,192,316
John McCain 2,586,496
Ralph Nader 41,520
Bob Barr 19,926

... resulting in less of an effect on the election than .1% of Bob Barr's supporters did.


I AM THE 0.1%!
 
2012-10-02 12:21:29 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Eagles409: I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.

If you're looking for the most recent GOP voter ID talking point, this is it. This, exactly, all over twitter.


One of the big go-tos. Hypocrisy, Projection, and Deflection.
 
2012-10-02 12:22:06 PM
It's only "free" if you steal it.
 
2012-10-02 12:22:10 PM

Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still


You sure? Are you REALLY Sure it's just sarcasm?
/The Troll is strong with this headline
 
2012-10-02 12:22:24 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-02 12:22:35 PM

Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to get married
to receive a marriage license
to drive
to buy a house
to close on a house
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job
to get a post office box
to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment
rent a hotel room
rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment
receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes
buy alcohol
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone
buy any antihistimine
go in to a casino
go in to a bar
go to college
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office
pick up a package from fed ex
pick up a package from ups
pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?


But, but, poor people never do any of that...
 
2012-10-02 12:22:57 PM

BarrRepublican: Theaetetus: Alonjar: WTF? You dont have to show ID?

What could possibly go wrong?

Someone could spend a day driving around and hitting as many as a dozen polling places (given travel time and time standing in line)? Why, they could vote 11 more times than others...

Pennsylvania 2008 results:
Barack Obama 3,192,316
John McCain 2,586,496
Ralph Nader 41,520
Bob Barr 19,926

... resulting in less of an effect on the election than .1% of Bob Barr's supporters did.

I AM THE 0.1%!


Bob, it's time the porn mustache took a holiday.
 
2012-10-02 12:23:09 PM
The point that a lot of people seem to be missing is that even though a photo ID isn't required, you still have to provide sufficient proof that you are who you say you are.

KRS 117.227 Confirmation of voter's identity.
Election officers shall confirm the identity of each voter by personal acquaintance or by a document, such as a motor vehicle operator's license, Social Security card, or credit card. The election officer confirming the identity shall sign the precinct voter roster and list the method of identification.

No photo needed.
Your state laws and mileage may vary.
 
2012-10-02 12:23:28 PM

Theaetetus: Poor people frequently get paid in cash. The ones who get paid in checks frequently don't have bank accounts, and instead take them to check cashing places who will take 15% and not require ID and/or will simply check off a box saying 'checked ID' on a form without actually needing to look at said ID.


As someone who has been poor and used one of those check cashing places, they'll make an ID for you, not a state ID just one for their check cashing place, and charge you for it. If you can't afford to pay for a state ID, the fee for that and the percent they take off of the check is a far larger amount of money than getting a state ID and going to a bank.
 
2012-10-02 12:23:31 PM
Giltric: "The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?"

Cited as what? being a joke? Up until about a week ago they had enough unnecessary hoops to jump through that they didn't actually alleviate any concerns about disenfranchisement.
(proof of residence? like, what a water bill? Try meeting that bar in a dorm or retirement home.)
Now, even with the relaxed rules, they're still a joke. (if you're not already registered to vote, you can't get the ID you need to vote. clear as mud, no?)
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/19659771/pa-voter-id-law

And it's farkin *October* and that process is still half-baked? Gee, I wonder why...

It's bad enough that we don't allow people time off from work to vote. Or open the polls on Sunday as a matter of course.
But to go out of your way to make it harder for people to vote in the name of combating a problem that doesn't exist?

And from the party that's supposedly all about 'framers intentions' and liberty and healthy suspicion of the government?
Come the fark on. It's dirty pool and you've got to be either ignorant of the facts, paid or a partisan cheerleader to defend this shiat.
 
2012-10-02 12:23:32 PM

Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to get married
to receive a marriage license
to drive
to buy a house
to close on a house
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job
to get a post office box
to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment
rent a hotel room
rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment
receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes
buy alcohol
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone
buy any antihistimine
go in to a casino
go in to a bar
go to college
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office
pick up a package from fed ex
pick up a package from ups
pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?


First off, some of those people can and do without ID, especially in rural areas. For instance, my uncle was postmaster of a small, Texas town and getting a package to my mamaw was as easy as putting her name and zip code on it.

Second, incredulity isn't data. The data shows that a lot of people don't have the damn things.(Certainly a vastly larger number than those committing voter fraud) So you are either typing a lengthy red herring or doubting the data. Both are crappy arguments.
 
2012-10-02 12:23:37 PM

Marine1: Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to get married
to receive a marriage license
to drive
to buy a house
to close on a house
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job
to get a post office box
to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment
rent a hotel room
rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment
receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes
buy alcohol
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone
buy any antihistimine
go in to a casino
go in to a bar
go to college
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office
pick up a package from fed ex
pick up a package from ups
pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?

But, but, poor people never do any of that...


It's beautiful when trolls / low-information voters internet fist-bump.
 
2012-10-02 12:23:46 PM

Eagles409: I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.


Let me guess...this is part of the "Dem policies are racist because they think blacks are too stupid to know what's good for them" theory.

Which is then followed by reasons why Repub policies are actually better for blacks, but they don't know what's good for them and only vote for Dems because they're lazy and stupid and want free stuff.

mmmmderp
 
2012-10-02 12:24:15 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Eagles409: I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.

If you're looking for the most recent GOP voter ID talking point, this is it. This, exactly, all over twitter.


Actually, the GOP planned on it. That's why they felt these laws would disenfranchise the poor and brown.

If these policies get enacted with a bit of leeway - like in 2013, I think the GOP will be shocked how many poor and brown people get their free ID card.
 
2012-10-02 12:24:49 PM

justtray: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?

A factor of 1000, a false equivilency, and the fact that one of those consequences is an additional vote, where the other is a dead person.

Are you that much of an imbecile to think you had a real argument?


Whats worse....the death from a suicide or the thousands or millions of deaths (depending on whos body count website you use) caused by Bushs terms?

See how much more dangerous getting the wrong person into office by a .0003% margin is?
 
2012-10-02 12:25:04 PM
So we're at that point in the thread where the first group of trolls have had their arguments completely curb-stomped, and the second wave rolls in to make exactly the same discredited arguments like they never happened.

Alrighty then. I'm done.
 
2012-10-02 12:25:23 PM

Marine1: Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:

But, but, poor people never do any of that...


You were already told that ID is not a requirement for nearly all of those things, but you've chosen to ignore it with delfections. No one is going to take you seriously if you keep up your barriers to fact. The FACTS are IDs are not a legal requirement to nearly ALL of those listed. Address the point directly, or discontinue this meritless line or argument. Or just become fully ignored like I'm sure most people have you already set to.
 
2012-10-02 12:25:24 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-02 12:25:45 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Maul555: I see there is an avalanche of liberal derp...

/still trying to figure out why Texas was struck down
//Free ID and a free ride to go get it...

If the government provides something, it isn't "free."
Do you also own a "free" mobility scooter?


From the ruling against the law:

"A law that forces poorer citizens to choose between their wages and their franchise unquestionably denies or abridges their right to vote..."

Texas would have offered free voting certificates to voters, but the court felt that the time a potential voter would have had to take to obtain such a certificate would impose a substantial and unusual burden on lower-income communities, as they would almost assuredly have had to forgo wages in order to get the certificate.
 
2012-10-02 12:26:44 PM

Giltric: justtray: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?

A factor of 1000, a false equivilency, and the fact that one of those consequences is an additional vote, where the other is a dead person.

Are you that much of an imbecile to think you had a real argument?

Whats worse....the death from a suicide or the thousands or millions of deaths (depending on whos body count website you use) caused by Bushs terms?

See how much more dangerous getting the wrong person into office by a .0003% margin is?


Except, Trisomy 21 guy, it's 0.00003%, not 0.0003%, and it's never happened before. C'mon, cognitive dissonance dude, your party needs you to stand up and yell "SMALL GOVERNMENT, you F*CKTARDS!" Be that patriot Eagle with tears in his eyes, setting the derpers straight. Be bold, be brave!
 
2012-10-02 12:27:09 PM

LeoffDaGrate: Eagles409: I love how liberals just assume that poor people and minorities are too stupid to get a free ID card.

I love how some Conservatives, such as yourself, just assume that ID cards, at least ones that are issued by a state or federal government, are free.


Probably because in this instance it has been cited time and time again that the actual IDs are provided free by the state of Pennsylvania.
 
2012-10-02 12:27:26 PM

Theaetetus: This text is now purple: dustygrimp: Because the .00004% of votes cast that were proven fraudulent over the last 4 years is a big problem.

Margin of victory for Kennedy over Nixon, 1960: 0.013%.
Margin of victory for Bush over Gore, 2000: 0.002%.

It doesn't necessarily take much to swing an election.

You realize that you're three and two orders of magnitude off, respectively?

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x221]
What an order of magnitude may look like.


Your own sources indicate the rate you cite is optimistic.
 
2012-10-02 12:27:37 PM
you silly americans think because you get to vote one day every four years you some bastion of democracy
 
2012-10-02 12:27:42 PM

Giltric: justtray: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?

A factor of 1000, a false equivilency, and the fact that one of those consequences is an additional vote, where the other is a dead person.

Are you that much of an imbecile to think you had a real argument?

Whats worse....the death from a suicide or the thousands or millions of deaths (depending on whos body count website you use) caused by Bushs terms?

See how much more dangerous getting the wrong person into office by a .0003% margin is?


You could have just said you were an imbecile...

I'm sure you're familiar with this line. "Welcome to ignore!"
 
2012-10-02 12:28:08 PM
Mexican Passport would be ok, no?
 
2012-10-02 12:28:16 PM
bartink:

So you dont need an ID for those things in your world? Do they have unicorns that fart rainbows too?
 
2012-10-02 12:28:56 PM

Great_Milenko: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving (this applies to urban poor)
Purchasing a firearm (only if you buy it from a gun shop or bought it in the last decade or so)
Carrying a firearm (only if you bother to get a concealed carry permit)
Cashing a check (no idea how check cashing stores work, but an ID that works there might not work at the polls)
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID?

They're called poor people. I've taken the liberty of striking out the activities that poor people don't do, and bolding the ones where you're just plain wrong, along with a few notes here and there.


You can certainly use a debit or credit card without showing an ID, I do it all the time. I've never seen anybody ask for ID when using a debit card, and I'd be somewhat suspicious if they did.

Walmart offers everything you need to live without an ID. You can get a prepaid credit or debit card which is refilled with direct deposit. It's pretty nice, actually. You can also cash government and business checks there.

The only things you supposedly can't do without an ID at Walmart is cash third party checks or buy alcohol or tobacco, and the last two aren't usually a problem if you look old enough. I may have some problems with Walmart, but they are incredibly helpful to poor people.
 
2012-10-02 12:29:03 PM
What's so good about this? Is it so wrong to verify someone is who they say they are and properly registered before you vote? Seriously, it takes like 2 freakin' seconds to whip that card out.

You get carded when you buy a gun, or buy booze and all sorts of other crap... what's so different about casting in a vote to decide who runs out entire country for 4 more years?
 
2012-10-02 12:29:22 PM

Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to get married
to receive a marriage license
to drive
to buy a house
to close on a house
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job
to get a post office box
to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment
rent a hotel room
rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment
receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes
buy alcohol
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone
buy any antihistimine
go in to a casino
go in to a bar
go to college
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office
pick up a package from fed ex
pick up a package from ups
pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?


Only one of those is a Constitutionally-guaranteed right - and the party that predominantly supports voter ID law (Republican) has a history of fighting fervently against the gun control laws that require you to go through a thorough identification process and background checks before purchasing a firearm.

And that is hypocrisy, plain and simple.
 
2012-10-02 12:29:32 PM
Here's an idea, you have 4 years and about 30 days to get an ID for the net election. If you can't then you may not be able to prove you are who you are and your vote will not be counted. you an still vote though.

/my stupid 2 cents.
 
2012-10-02 12:29:36 PM
hey dumbasses!

It ain't the "poor and elderly" they are trying to stop voting.

It is the illegals!
You know the ones who should not be able to vote.

They vote, by large, for Democrats.
 
2012-10-02 12:29:46 PM

aug3: you silly americans think because you get to vote one day every four years you some bastion of democracy


Elections are held every two years.

Just sayin'
 
2012-10-02 12:29:49 PM

lemurs: iheartscotch: So; if Romney wins in November; you won't complain if a few thousand votes were fraudulent. A few thousand votes could easily be the margin for victory.

Voter ID laws do not stop fraudulent voting, which is typically caused by people who already have valid IDs.


I never said it would stop voter fraud; states should compaire voter rolls and investigate duplicates. The states themselves should check for duplicates with their own system; and verify the status of the voters. Would you be in favor of assigning a "voter number" to everyone? It could even be your social security number. Or maybe a blood scan?

/ I am open to suggestions
 
2012-10-02 12:29:57 PM

coeyagi: Marine1: Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to get married
to receive a marriage license
to drive
to buy a house
to close on a house
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job
to get a post office box
to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment
rent a hotel room
rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment
receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes
buy alcohol
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone
buy any antihistimine
go in to a casino
go in to a bar
go to college
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office
pick up a package from fed ex
pick up a package from ups
pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?

But, but, poor people never do any of that...

It's beautiful when trolls / low-information voters internet fist-bump.


As oppsoed to what? Ignore facts like you? I realise this is FARK but why do you hate facts? Which one is wrong?
 
2012-10-02 12:30:11 PM

aug3: you silly americans think because you get to vote one day every four years you some bastion of democracy


www.personal.psu.edu
 
2012-10-02 12:31:16 PM

coeyagi: Giltric: justtray: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?

A factor of 1000, a false equivilency, and the fact that one of those consequences is an additional vote, where the other is a dead person.

Are you that much of an imbecile to think you had a real argument?

Whats worse....the death from a suicide or the thousands or millions of deaths (depending on whos body count website you use) caused by Bushs terms?

See how much more dangerous getting the wrong person into office by a .0003% margin is?

Except, Trisomy 21 guy, it's 0.00003%, not 0.0003%, and it's never happened before. C'mon, cognitive dissonance dude, your party needs you to stand up and yell "SMALL GOVERNMENT, you F*CKTARDS!" Be that patriot Eagle with tears in his eyes, setting the derpers straight. Be bold, be brave!


This coming from the guy who posts red state vs blue state welfare charts that are 10 years old?

Are you defending the poor republicans or the poor democrats right to not have to get off the couch and go get a free state ID?
 
2012-10-02 12:31:39 PM
It happens so often, it's rote.
The right disenfranchises votes.
But they look like clowns:
Each law gets struck down.
Permit me to take time to gloat

Link
 
2012-10-02 12:32:13 PM

Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to get married
to receive a marriage license
to drive
(only if you get pulled over)
to buy a house duplicate
to close on a house duplicate
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job
to get a post office box

to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment
rent a hotel room
rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment
receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes
(not if you look over thirty)
buy alcohol (not if you look over thirty)
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone
buy any antihistimine
(only ones containing pseudoephedrine)
go in to a casino
go in to a bar

go to college
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office
(not if it's delivered)
pick up a package from fed ex (not if it's delivered)
pick up a package from ups (not if it's delivered)
pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?


Struck out the ones that I have either personally done or know people who have done without photo ID. Look at the rest, and tell me how many you think poor people do.
 
2012-10-02 12:32:41 PM

justtray: Welcome to ignore!"


Yes I am familiar with libruls sticking their heads in the sand.....why do you ask?
 
2012-10-02 12:32:48 PM
Oh no! How can they ignore the ZERO cases of voter fraud currently being prosecuted by PA?
 
2012-10-02 12:32:57 PM

Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to get married
to receive a marriage license
to drive
to buy a house
to close on a house
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job
to get a post office box
to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment
rent a hotel room
rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment
receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes
buy alcohol
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone
buy any antihistimine
go in to a casino
go in to a bar
go to college
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office
pick up a package from fed ex
pick up a package from ups
pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?


I have a pet
obtained a credit card online
write checks
make purchases with a credit card
gotten medical care
gotten insurance
received a fishing license
buy cigarettes
bought bus tickets
bought a prepaid cell phone
cashed a paycheck
opened a bank account
had water, electric and cable turned on
went into a bar
went to college
obtained trash pick up
and pick up prescriptions

all without providing an ID that would be acceptable to vote with. I could probably do even more on that list, but got tired of your ridiculous list. I dont know which state you live in, but god damn you got some bureaucratic douches in your state government.
 
2012-10-02 12:33:07 PM

Joe Blowme: coeyagi: Marine1: Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to get married
to receive a marriage license
to drive
to buy a house
to close on a house
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job
to get a post office box
to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment
rent a hotel room
rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment
receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes
buy alcohol
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone
buy any antihistimine
go in to a casino
go in to a bar
go to college
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office
pick up a package from fed ex
pick up a package from ups
pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?

But, but, poor people never do any of that...

It's beautiful when trolls / low-information voters internet fist-bump.

As oppsoed to what? Ignore facts like you? I realise this is FARK but why do you hate facts? Which one is wrong?


These are facts, yes, but they don't support an argument. The argument being:

"Voter IDs are necessary because there is a) rampant fraud and b) they would prevent fraud."

This argument can be shot down with a) there is not rampant fraud, b) they would not prevent fraud, c) also, voting is a constitutionally-protected right whereas the dipsh*t things you mention are not.
 
2012-10-02 12:33:08 PM

iheartscotch: I also said; Ids are required for a lot of important things. Why not voting?


Where there's no problem, no solution is needed.

Make the IDs free and easy to obtain and there is no problem.
 
2012-10-02 12:33:08 PM

Hugh_Janus: Here's an idea, you have 4 years and about 30 days to get an ID for the net election. If you can't then you may not be able to prove you are who you are and your vote will not be counted. you an still vote though.

/my stupid 2 cents.


But if 8 months wasn't enough, What makes you think 4 years would be?
 
2012-10-02 12:33:25 PM

xaratherus: Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to get married
to receive a marriage license
to drive
to buy a house
to close on a house
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job
to get a post office box
to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment
rent a hotel room
rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment
receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes
buy alcohol
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone
buy any antihistimine
go in to a casino
go in to a bar
go to college
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office
pick up a package from fed ex
pick up a package from ups
pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?

Only one of those is a Constitutionally-guaranteed right - and the party that predominantly supports voter ID law (Republican) has a history of fighting fervently against the gun control laws that require you to go through a thorough identification process and background checks before purchasing a firearm.

And that is hypocrisy, plain and simple.


so you are all for applying the same checks on voting as they do on guns? Got it.
 
2012-10-02 12:33:29 PM

HeartBurnKid: Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to get married
to receive a marriage license
to drive (only if you get pulled over)
to buy a house duplicate
to close on a house duplicate
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job
to get a post office box
to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment
rent a hotel room
rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment
receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes (not if you look over thirty)
buy alcohol (not if you look over thirty)
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone
buy any antihistimine (only ones containing pseudoephedrine)
go in to a casino
go in to a bar
go to college
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office (not if it's delivered)
pick up a package from fed ex (not if it's delivered)
pick up a package from ups (not if it's delivered)
pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?

Struck out the ones that I have either personally done or know people who have done without photo ID. Look at the rest, and tell me how many you think poor people do.


Please don't let facts get in the way of his false reality. He's not going to accept the truth.
 
2012-10-02 12:33:34 PM
The US has got to be the only Western democracies that doesn't require ID to vote. It is really asinine that you wouldn't. I'm as liberal as they come, and grew up in Canada, and even those commies hosers require ID.
 
2012-10-02 12:34:11 PM

DamnYankees: what_now: Actual attempted voter fraud that I, a poll worker, encountered:

I was working at the election checking people off as they came in to vote. One fellow- who was nasty to begin with- came in to vote and was FLABBERGASTED that I wouldn't give him a ballot. He insisted he lived "just down the street", which is absolutely accurate...but in a different town.

He tried to show me his drivers license to "prove I am who I say I am", but 1) I'm not the person to dispute address with and 2) he freely admitted that he lived in Cambridge, not Somerville.

By his reasoning, he should be able to vote "wherever", because he was only voting for the state wide election.

I'm sort of on his side.


Ok, so if he can vote anywhere for "just the state election" does that mean that we should have a ballot for residents of my town, and then for people who are just running in for the state elections? And if you can vote ANYWHERE, doesn't that mean you can vote EVERYWHERE?
 
2012-10-02 12:34:18 PM
So I guess we're stuck with voter fraud and ballot box stuffing here in America, home to the best technology in the world.

Meanwhile, they seemed to have mostly solved the problem in a third-world backwater proto-nation that only recently got their own democratic elections for the first time in their entire 6,000-year history:


jimmyakin.com

imgc.artprintimages.com

3.bp.blogspot.com

img5.ranchoweb.com
 
2012-10-02 12:34:40 PM

I_C_Weener: moothemagiccow: I_C_Weener: Leeds: THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.


But its inconvenient.  And so are going to the polls.  I mean get out of bed and sometime between 6am and 8pm go somewhere in your neighborhood to vote.  Its unconscionable.

I can pay my taxes whenever and wherever. Why do I have to get out of bed to vote? It's retarded.


If you don't vote, the IRS won't come after you. 
 
If American Idol required voter ID, there'd be a revolution!!!


So despite the threat, it's still convenient? That makes no sense.
 
2012-10-02 12:34:47 PM

coeyagi: c) also, voting is a constitutionally-protected right whereas the dipsh*t things you mention are not.


only to legal citizens....
 
2012-10-02 12:34:52 PM

jabelar: The US has got to be the only Western democracies that doesn't require ID to vote. It is really asinine that you wouldn't. I'm as liberal as they come, and grew up in Canada, and even those commies hosers require ID.


And you wonder why Stephen Harper's your PM...

/God, Obama would wipe the floor with Harper.
 
2012-10-02 12:34:55 PM

Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: justtray: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?

A factor of 1000, a false equivilency, and the fact that one of those consequences is an additional vote, where the other is a dead person.

Are you that much of an imbecile to think you had a real argument?

Whats worse....the death from a suicide or the thousands or millions of deaths (depending on whos body count website you use) caused by Bushs terms?

See how much more dangerous getting the wrong person into office by a .0003% margin is?

Except, Trisomy 21 guy, it's 0.00003%, not 0.0003%, and it's never happened before. C'mon, cognitive dissonance dude, your party needs you to stand up and yell "SMALL GOVERNMENT, you F*CKTARDS!" Be that patriot Eagle with tears in his eyes, setting the derpers straight. Be bold, be brave!

This coming from the guy who posts red state vs blue state welfare charts that are 10 years old?

Are you defending the poor republicans or the poor democrats rig ...


I post education statistics of red state vs. blue state from 2008, if that's what you mean. Also, keep deflecting and not addressing the issue of "need". You are silently admitting that this is counterproductive to the GOP platform of small government but a necessary evil to ensure that the GOP can rig an election.
 
2012-10-02 12:35:57 PM

Joe Blowme: As oppsoed to what? Ignore facts like you? I realise this is FARK but why do you hate facts? Which one is wrong?


Unless an ID is free and easy to obtain, it is a poll tax. Poll taxes are unconstitutional.

Did I dumb it down enough for you?
 
2012-10-02 12:36:06 PM

Marine1: Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase
apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age

to get married
to receive a marriage license

to drive
to buy a house
to close on a house

to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything

to get a job
to get a post office box

to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license

to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment
rent a hotel room

rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment

receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes
buy alcohol
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone
buy any antihistimine
go in to a casino
go in to a bar

go to college
have your water turned on

have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on

obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office
pick up a package from fed ex
pick up a package from ups

pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?

But, but, poor people never do any of that...


Again, items that are struck are things poor people don't typically do. Bolded items don't require photo ID. There is no third category.
 
2012-10-02 12:36:28 PM

Loadmaster: So I guess we're stuck with voter fraud and ballot box stuffing here in America, home to the best technology in the world.

Meanwhile, they seemed to have mostly solved the problem in a third-world backwater proto-nation that only recently got their own democratic elections for the first time in their entire 6,000-year history:


[jimmyakin.com image 331x450]

[imgc.artprintimages.com image 366x488]

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 273x253]

[img5.ranchoweb.com image 250x344]


Not only that but they have hundreds of people running for the same office....we get 2 corporate sponsored figureheads and call it democracy that should be the envy of every nation on earth.....but as long as it's our corporate sponsored figurehead we are ok with it.
 
2012-10-02 12:37:12 PM

Loadmaster: So I guess we're stuck with voter fraud and ballot box stuffing here in America


Well, except that that doesn't happen.
 
2012-10-02 12:37:21 PM

Saruman_W: What's so good about this? Is it so wrong to verify someone is who they say they are and properly registered before you vote? Seriously, it takes like 2 freakin' seconds to whip that card out.

You get carded when you buy a gun, or buy booze and all sorts of other crap... what's so different about casting in a vote to decide who runs out entire country for 4 more years?


In Pa., when you go to the polls, you give your name, they look up your name in the voting register where a copy of your signature from when your registered is displayed. You sign the line right next to your signature and the poll worker verifies that your signature matches the one from when you registered.

What is wrong with this?
 
2012-10-02 12:37:59 PM
People never card me writting checks so that means i dont have to have one* DERRP

Seriously? That is your argument? Because people not enforcing the law is proof you dont have to have ID or obey the law?? WOW, VOTE OBAMA!!!
 
2012-10-02 12:38:07 PM

lemurs: In practice, actual voter fraud (which is not the same thing as voter registration fraud) is extremely rare. And when it does occur, the typical causes are things like felons voting when they shouldn't, which wouldn't be stopped by voter ID laws.

So just like the "top state Republican lawmaker" in TFA alludes to, the purpose of voter ID laws is not to stop voting fraud.




Thisity THIS.

1) In person Voter Fraud almost never* (*a statistically irrelevant number) happens.

2) Even the backers of the bill say it's not for the purposes of preventing in-person voting.

3) You have nothing, this is voter suppression pure and simple.
 
2012-10-02 12:38:38 PM
One of the nice things about my job is I get to abuse and exploit illegal immigrants on a daily basis.
 
2012-10-02 12:39:44 PM

Loadmaster: So I guess we're stuck with voter fraud and ballot box stuffing here in America, home to the best technology in the world.

Meanwhile, they seemed to have mostly solved the problem in a third-world backwater proto-nation that only recently got their own democratic elections for the first time in their entire 6,000-year history:


[jimmyakin.com image 331x450]

[imgc.artprintimages.com image 366x488]

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 273x253]

[img5.ranchoweb.com image 250x344]


Hey, let's do that. I'll happily dip my finger in ink to show I voted.
 
2012-10-02 12:40:34 PM

Bag of Hammers: this is voter suppression pure and simple.


Yes...suppression of illegals...which is a good thing.
 
2012-10-02 12:41:00 PM

Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:
adopt a pet
purchase a home
purchase an automobile
purchase a gun
obtain a bank account
obtain a credit card
obtain a passport
write a check
make a credit card purchase

apply for a loan to purchase anything
to prove your age
to get married
to receive a marriage license
to drive
to buy a house
to close on a house
to get medical care
to get on a plane
to get insurance on anything
to get a job

to get a post office box
to get a hunting license
to get a fishing license
to get a business license
to cash a paycheck
rent an apartment

rent a hotel room
rent a car
rent furniture
rent tools and equipment
receive welfare
receive social security
receive food stamps
buy cigarettes
buy alcohol
buy a bus ticket
buy a cell phone

buy any antihistimine
go in to a casino
go in to a bar
go to college
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service

pick up a package from the post office
pick up a package from fed ex
pick up a package from ups
pick up a prescription

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?


All the stuff that is struck through are things I have done without needing to show either a picture ID, or ID of any sort. Any more false information to disseminate?
 
2012-10-02 12:41:24 PM

Theaetetus: There is no third category.

Then there is the third category, the category of people who need to be constantly before the eyes of the person they love.


Got nothin'.
 
2012-10-02 12:41:44 PM

iheartscotch: sdd2000: iheartscotch: The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

/ I know; I'm worse than hitler

And how does this law stop this? Also, what percent of voting population could that apply to, is it even as high as .01% ?

Never said it did; like I said, states should compare voter rolls and investigate duplicates.

I also said; Ids are required for a lot of important things. Why not voting? Would you be in favor of a blood scan to prove identity instead of a ID card? It's not like a persons' blood type suddenly changes.

/ .01 of 300,000,000 is 3,000,000; 300 million is the population of the United States


The states should investigate duplicates as well as any voter fraud or registration fraud, but you have avoided the question of how the voter ID law in PA would solve this alleged problem? How would blood typing? Wouldn't comparing the signature on the voting books to one provided by the voter be equally effective?


BTW .01% of 300 million is not 3 million or do you subscribe to the Paul Ryan/Romney math issues? It is 1 percent not 1/100 of one percent which was the number I was using, however even the high estimates put the number as being much less than 1/1000 of one percent.
 
2012-10-02 12:42:04 PM

bim1154: One of the nice things about my job is I get to abuse and exploit illegal immigrants on a daily basis. I'm on Sheriff Joe Arpaio's staff so I'm getting a kick out of your replies....

/ftfu

I
 
2012-10-02 12:42:04 PM

Lionel Mandrake: iheartscotch: I also said; Ids are required for a lot of important things. Why not voting?

Where there's no problem, no solution is needed.

Make the IDs free and easy to obtain and there is no problem.


This seems to come up every election; the laws tend to make replacing a lost Id free and easy. It's almost as though everybody procrastinated 4 or 2 or whatever number of years. Would you prefer blood scans as aposed to a physical id that you can loose?

/ also; have you been denying them your essence, mandrake?
 
2012-10-02 12:42:05 PM

Joe Blowme: People never card me writting checks so that means i dont have to have one* DERRP

Seriously? That is your argument? Because people not enforcing the law is proof you dont have to have ID or obey the law?? WOW, VOTE OBAMA!!!


The argument is that it amounts to a poll tax, results in keeping eligible voters from voting, and addresses a non-existent "problem"
 
2012-10-02 12:42:07 PM

Lionel Mandrake: aug3: you silly americans think because you get to vote one day every four years you some bastion of democracy

Elections are held every two years.

Just sayin'



We've held two elections in my state already in 2012.

All politics is local.
 
2012-10-02 12:42:14 PM
Voting day should be a national holiday to increase turnout. We can give up one of the ones for some guy who died centuries ago like Columbus or Jesus.
 
2012-10-02 12:42:57 PM

you have pee hands: Voting day should be a national holiday to increase turnout. We can give up one of the ones for some guy who died centuries ago like Columbus or Jesus.


agreed
 
2012-10-02 12:43:23 PM

Bag of Hammers: lemurs: In practice, actual voter fraud (which is not the same thing as voter registration fraud) is extremely rare. And when it does occur, the typical causes are things like felons voting when they shouldn't, which wouldn't be stopped by voter ID laws.

So just like the "top state Republican lawmaker" in TFA alludes to, the purpose of voter ID laws is not to stop voting fraud.



Thisity THIS.

1) In person Voter Fraud almost never* (*a statistically irrelevant number) happens.

2) Even the backers of the bill say it's not for the purposes of preventing in-person voting.

3) You have nothing, this is voter suppression pure and simple.


It really is this simple. Republicans are whipping people into a frenzy over a problem that has been proven not to exist in order to pass draconian measures that disenfranchise voter demographics which tend to vote for Democrats.

Repeating their talking points just shows that you've either been duped by right wing propaganda or are knowingly pushing said propaganda to gain an unfair and undemocratic advantage at the polls.
 
2012-10-02 12:44:22 PM

Joe Blowme: bartink


I missed the point of my post. Your list, while inaccurate, is irrelevant.

Acting incredulous over a list is a red herring. The data says that a large number of people don't have IDs. So you are either arguing by your incredulity of an irrelevant list or you are doubting the actual data. Both are lousy arguments.
 
2012-10-02 12:45:05 PM

coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: justtray: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?

A factor of 1000, a false equivilency, and the fact that one of those consequences is an additional vote, where the other is a dead person.

Are you that much of an imbecile to think you had a real argument?

Whats worse....the death from a suicide or the thousands or millions of deaths (depending on whos body count website you use) caused by Bushs terms?

See how much more dangerous getting the wrong person into office by a .0003% margin is?

Except, Trisomy 21 guy, it's 0.00003%, not 0.0003%, and it's never happened before. C'mon, cognitive dissonance dude, your party needs you to stand up and yell "SMALL GOVERNMENT, you F*CKTARDS!" Be that patriot Eagle with tears in his eyes, setting the derpers straight. Be bold, be brave!

This coming from the guy who posts red state vs blue state welfare charts that are 10 years old?

Are you defending the poor republicans or the poor demo ...


I just want to make sure everyone gets a voice and can prove they didn't speak twice or three times no matter what party they belong to.

I think we should go even farther so that they don't find a bag of uncounted votes that all go to one candidate at the 11th hour.....wasn't that Walker in Wisconsin or something?

But can you link the study....I'm curious as to how they come up with those stats... We know NY is a blue state, but the reason they do well education wise is because there are more than enough white people upstate to counter the failings of the minorities who can't read or write who go to school in the 5 bouroughs.
 
2012-10-02 12:45:13 PM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


Have you ever been poor?
 
2012-10-02 12:45:35 PM

Lionel Mandrake: The argument is that it amounts to a poll tax, results in keeping eligible voters from voting, and addresses a non-existent "problem"


The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?
 
2012-10-02 12:45:49 PM

Marine1: justtray: Marine1: Disposable Rob: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

I liked how you list things that only people with money do. You do have the sense to realize that poverty is a major disadvantage, though. Some of us try to focus on that, but then Republicans complain that poor people own refrigerators and get government cell phones.

Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.

That's shiat you do no matter what your income level.

An ID isn't required to buy alcohol or cigarettes, which was already told to you. Occasionally you have to prove your age, but that's just the discretion of the shop owner.

You're reaching, and simultaneously pretending like you aren't bias. Just go the fark away moron. You've been shot down so many times in here you should be embarrassed for yourself.

It isn't required to buy alcohol or cigarettes? Let me tell all of the local high school burnouts to move to your locale so they can get their stuff ...


when was the last time you were behind a guy in his 50's/60's buy a pack of smokes and a bottle of vodak at the liquor store? did he get ID'd??

hell i'm 30 and smoke AND drink and i get carded MAYBE 1/20 of those kinds of purchases.

/inb4 'oh you just go to the same store'
//don't
///reality is a little more complicated than your personal worldview, friend
 
2012-10-02 12:45:53 PM
The intention of the Pennsylvania legislation was clearly stated by a Republican lawmaker -- to put Romney into the White House.
The GOP's American Legislative Exchange Council, which promoted voter similar laws across the country, should be tried under civil RICO law for its efforts to deny millions of American citizens of their constitutional right to vote, and all the Republican state lawmakers who joined the effort should be co-defendants.
 
2012-10-02 12:46:12 PM
Also the electoral college is a giant crock of shiat, though we'll never pass a constitutional amendment to fix that goddamn mess.

Low population states have more than double the representation per capita of high population states and unless you're in one of the dozen or so swing states your vote might as well not count at all for either side.
 
2012-10-02 12:46:46 PM

mr lawson: Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?


Do you have any evidence proving they do in any significant way?
 
2012-10-02 12:46:48 PM
Very good news. Suck it, cons.
 
2012-10-02 12:47:11 PM
I almost wish some of these laws would stand. So it would give democratic law makers the opportunity to a implement a national voter ID and make an effort to get everyone registered to vote with any governmental interaction. I mean if the voting process is so on lock down then there is no reason to not have an aggressive registration effort.

Hypnozombie
 
2012-10-02 12:47:17 PM

jabelar: The US has got to be the only Western democracies that doesn't require ID to vote. It is really asinine that you wouldn't. I'm as liberal as they come, and grew up in Canada, and even those commies hosers require ID.


Actually, that's not true.

http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=ind e x&lang=e

All you need is a fellow elector who knows you to vouch for you and swear an oath.
 
2012-10-02 12:48:30 PM
5monkeys: Poor cash checks, buy booze or cigarettes, live places, or have bank accounts. I am not rich, not by a mile, but i have an id. You need one in today's world.

Poor people frequently get paid in cash. The ones who get paid in checks frequently don't have bank accounts, and instead take them to check cashing places who will take 15% and not require ID and/or will simply check off a box saying 'checked ID' on a form without actually needing to look at said ID.
Booze and cigarettes can be purchased without an ID, particularly if you're paying cash.
You can rent crappy apartments from slum lords for cash without needing an ID, because they don't want to report the income to the IRS and if they have your cash, they don't care who the fark you are.

In short, you're incredibly naive. There's this huge world of people living by means you know nothing of.

You sir, are arrogant. That you would believe I am naive to the way people work around the system is insulting. Pointing out how these people don't pay taxes as a way to validate their inability to vote is ridiculous. So what if they have a job that pays under the table. Then let them use the money that they should have paid in taxes to get an ID. This is America 2012, having an ID is not a difficult thing to aquire. All excuses aside they were given time to get one if they want to vote. Stop making excuses for people.
 
2012-10-02 12:48:42 PM

Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: justtray: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

300 million guns in the United states and 30k deaths from guns including suicide......where is the problem?

A factor of 1000, a false equivilency, and the fact that one of those consequences is an additional vote, where the other is a dead person.

Are you that much of an imbecile to think you had a real argument?

Whats worse....the death from a suicide or the thousands or millions of deaths (depending on whos body count website you use) caused by Bushs terms?

See how much more dangerous getting the wrong person into office by a .0003% margin is?

Except, Trisomy 21 guy, it's 0.00003%, not 0.0003%, and it's never happened before. C'mon, cognitive dissonance dude, your party needs you to stand up and yell "SMALL GOVERNMENT, you F*CKTARDS!" Be that patriot Eagle with tears in his eyes, setting the derpers straight. Be bold, be brave!

This coming from the guy who posts red state vs blue state welfare charts that are 10 years old?

Are you defending the poor republicans or the ...


A) Ok, so you're "concerned". Typical GOP nonsense. Can't be used to prove a "need".
B) It wasn't a study - it was me crunching the numbers. Very simple - find electoral college results, compare to national educational rankings, average blue and red states. You can draw your own conclusions, I was just pointing out facts. Also, while the NY example might be true, do you think it would occur like that in every state or a bunch of states that went blue? Please.
 
2012-10-02 12:48:47 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: mr lawson: Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?

Do you have any evidence proving they do in any significant way?


What, you didn't see how many hits "Illegal immigrants voting" pulls up on google?

There are almost HALF as many hits as "Beiber sex tape" and now that image is stuck in your head, because I'm an asshole.
 
2012-10-02 12:48:49 PM

justtray: Marine1: Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:

But, but, poor people never do any of that...

You were already told that ID is not a requirement for nearly all of those things, but you've chosen to ignore it with delfections. No one is going to take you seriously if you keep up your barriers to fact. The FACTS are IDs are not a legal requirement to nearly ALL of those listed. Address the point directly, or discontinue this meritless line or argument. Or just become fully ignored like I'm sure most people have you already set to.


Actually, I gave you several examples for that stuff... so... you're the meritless one.
 
2012-10-02 12:49:01 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: mr lawson: Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?

Do you have any evidence proving they do in any significant way?


Sure!
 
2012-10-02 12:49:03 PM

iheartscotch: Lionel Mandrake: iheartscotch: I also said; Ids are required for a lot of important things. Why not voting?

Where there's no problem, no solution is needed.

Make the IDs free and easy to obtain and there is no problem.

This seems to come up every election; the laws tend to make replacing a lost Id free and easy. It's almost as though everybody procrastinated 4 or 2 or whatever number of years. Would you prefer blood scans as aposed to a physical id that you can loose?


It's not free and easy, especially for the elderly who, in addition to having a generally difficult time getting places and waiting in lines, often do not have or long ago lost their birth certificates, meaning more money and lines. I think young(er) people assume that because it's pretty easy for them, it must be no big deal for everyone, which is not true. But, still, and I can't stress this enough, voter ID laws address a problem that does not exist. Set a long-term goal to get everyone a photo ID card that is available to all free of charge, and we have no problem. Still, there is also no "problem" that it will solve.

/ also; have you been denying them your essence, mandrake?


For now, but one of these days I'm going to unleash all my essence at once. Boy will the wife be surprised.
 
2012-10-02 12:49:07 PM

Mercutio74: http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=ind e x&lang=e


Let me try that again and I'll be less stupid this time...

HERE
 
2012-10-02 12:50:16 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: mr lawson: Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?

Do you have any evidence proving they do in any significant way?


Not to mention, if there's one demographic that can easily get faked credentials, it's illegal aliens.
 
2012-10-02 12:50:50 PM

mr lawson: The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?


How about in order to vote, you should be able to pass the citizenship test whether you are legal or illegal?
 
2012-10-02 12:51:12 PM

mr lawson: Sure!


Well then this must be happening - and at three times the rate! Link
 
2012-10-02 12:51:27 PM

olddinosaur: If you google "illegal immigrant voting" you will find about 8.5 million articles more or less.

There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

Obama beat McCain by 69 million to 59 million last election; this one is likely to be closer.

How many of those votes were illegal?


None, because states' attorney generals check voter registrations versus property records and only add valid names to the rolls.
 
2012-10-02 12:51:35 PM

you have pee hands: Also the electoral college is a giant crock of shiat, though we'll never pass a constitutional amendment to fix that goddamn mess.

Low population states have more than double the representation per capita of high population states and unless you're in one of the dozen or so swing states your vote might as well not count at all for either side.


You know how I know you've never read the reason why this was done in the first place?
 
2012-10-02 12:51:52 PM
I would send Marine1 to the Land of Nore but it's fun watching him get smacked around in this thread like an Osama bin Laden-shaped pinata.
 
2012-10-02 12:51:55 PM

theknuckler_33: Election workers will still be allowed to ask voters for a valid photo ID, but people without it can vote on a regular voting machine in the polling place and would not have to cast a provisional ballot or prove their identity to election officials after the election.

So, do I refuse to show my ID if I am asked?


Marine1: Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.


You don't need ID to rent an apartment, or purchase tobacco or alcohol. If the renter is willing to take your word for it who you are, or, if the rented property is under someone else's name, you'd not need ID. If the alcohol and tobacco sellers are willing to sell to you without an ID, because they know you or believe you are old enough to purchase those products, you can do so without ID. Poor people may take public transport of rely on biking or friends to get them places, neither requires ID. If I get a paycheck in my name, I can endorse it over to someone else who has a bank account, who would be able to cash the check. The poor also do a lot of underground, paid by cash, work. 

I voted in my first four presidential elections without ID. Also, a whole bunch of off-year and primary voting elections, too.
 
2012-10-02 12:52:03 PM

mr lawson: Lionel Mandrake: The argument is that it amounts to a poll tax, results in keeping eligible voters from voting, and addresses a non-existent "problem"

The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?


No. Is this a problem? Or do you just assume that loads of illegals are fraudulently and nefariously voting - and risking being caught - just to tip local elections? Please, give me examples.
 
2012-10-02 12:52:43 PM

danfrank: Oh no! How can they ignore the ZERO cases of voter fraud currently being prosecuted by PA?


PA doesn't prosecute documented cases of voter intimidation, either.
 
2012-10-02 12:53:01 PM

amindtat: mr lawson: The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?

How about in order to vote, you should be able to pass the citizenship test whether you are legal or illegal?


That's a poll test and is illegal because the it was used as a way of disenfranchising black voters.

But I'd make it a condition of running for office, certainly.
 
2012-10-02 12:53:20 PM

Theaetetus: This text is now purple: dustygrimp: Because the .00004% of votes cast that were proven fraudulent over the last 4 years is a big problem.

Margin of victory for Kennedy over Nixon, 1960: 0.013%.
Margin of victory for Bush over Gore, 2000: 0.002%.

It doesn't necessarily take much to swing an election.

You realize that you're three and two orders of magnitude off, respectively?

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x221]
What an order of magnitude may look like.


Off even more than that. The estimated .00004% number is over four years and across all elections during that time.
 
2012-10-02 12:53:33 PM
Ok, assuming the rate of fraud is actually low and not an effect on elections, I'd ask why that would be the case?

Most of the people in here seem apt to assume the "other party" would stoop to any level to win, including commit voter fraud. So:

1. It's nearly impossible to commit voter fraud?
2. You can't commit enough fraud to swing an election?
3. We're willing to live with the risk in order to protect the rights of voters?
4. We'll always catch the "other party" cheating?

Not sure why the response seems to always be "do absolutely nothing" here.
 
2012-10-02 12:55:20 PM

coeyagi: It's beautiful when trolls / low-information voters internet fist-bump.


Every time this happens a dolphin gets a hemorrhoid.
 
2012-10-02 12:55:23 PM

mr lawson: Lionel Mandrake: The argument is that it amounts to a poll tax, results in keeping eligible voters from voting, and addresses a non-existent "problem"

The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?


Conservatives demand that not a single illegal cast a ballot even if that means US citizens are unfairly prevented from voting.

Liberals demand that not a single US citizen by unfairly prevented from voting even if that means an illegal ballot can be cast.

Denying any US citizen their constitutionally protected right to vote under ANY circumstance is a despicable position to take especially in the absence of any evidence whatsoever that illegals are actually casting ballots.
 
2012-10-02 12:56:27 PM

iheartscotch: The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

/ I know; I'm worse than hitler


Voter ID laws would do nothing to prevent that sort of thing.

They only check to see whether you are who you say you are. The poll workers have no way of knowing whether you also have ID and are registered in another state.
 
2012-10-02 12:57:12 PM

Lionel Mandrake: and risking being caught - just to tip local elections? Please, give me examples.


and how..pray i ask...under the current system, "risk being caught?"

There is no risk right now.
 
2012-10-02 12:57:15 PM

amindtat: mr lawson: The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?

How about in order to vote, you should be able to pass the cizenship test?


Toss in an IQ test and I'll back your proposal.
 
2012-10-02 12:57:28 PM
I live in an area that's not exactly impoverished, but pretty much everyone is struggling to make ends meet. The DMV is only open 4 days per week and closes at 4pm. It used to be open 2 Saturdays per month, but the last I checked it had gone down to one Saturday per month, and it closes at 2pm.

If you're lucky enough to have a job where taking occasional time off to run errands isn't a big deal, hooray for you. But a great many people only get a few personal/sick days off every year, and they have to be used wisely.
 
2012-10-02 12:57:58 PM

sdd2000: iheartscotch: sdd2000: iheartscotch: The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

/ I know; I'm worse than hitler

And how does this law stop this? Also, what percent of voting population could that apply to, is it even as high as .01% ?

Never said it did; like I said, states should compare voter rolls and investigate duplicates.

I also said; Ids are required for a lot of important things. Why not voting? Would you be in favor of a blood scan to prove identity instead of a ID card? It's not like a persons' blood type suddenly changes.

/ .01 of 300,000,000 is 3,000,000; 300 million is the population of the United States

The states should investigate duplicates as well as any voter fraud or registration fraud, but you have avoided the question of how the voter ID law in PA would solve this alleged problem? How would blood typing? Wouldn't comparing the signature on the voting books to one provided by the voter be equally effective?


BTW .01% of 300 million is not 3 million or do you subscribe to the Paul Ryan/Romney math issues? It is 1 percent not 1/100 of one percent which was the number I was using, however even the high estimates put the number as being much less than 1/1000 of one percent.


I never said that the voter Id law would solve voter fraud. I do like the law; but it the id has to be free and easy to get. Blood typing has advanced beyond simple types; the idea being, you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that a vote was cast by that voter. Hand writing can be duplicated; and some vets came back from Iraq without a hand; I imagine their signatures might be different. And your signature does change over time.

I was saying that the actual solution was comparing rolls and duplicates.

I know what I did; needed more zeros. Math is hard. 30,000 is .01 of 1% of 300 million. Besides; we don't know what the actual number is. It could be 0, but that is unlikely. But, it is equally unlikely that the number is big.

/ maybe we just need to do the purple finger thing
 
2012-10-02 12:58:01 PM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


for the same reason they are poor in the first place. they are lazy!
 
2012-10-02 12:59:35 PM

5monkeys: Stop making excuses for people.


In other words, if you are a US citizen without ID, then fark off.

Is that about right?

Congratulations, you're a douchebag.
 
2012-10-02 01:00:13 PM

theknuckler_33: Saruman_W: What's so good about this? Is it so wrong to verify someone is who they say they are and properly registered before you vote? Seriously, it takes like 2 freakin' seconds to whip that card out.

You get carded when you buy a gun, or buy booze and all sorts of other crap... what's so different about casting in a vote to decide who runs out entire country for 4 more years?

In Pa., when you go to the polls, you give your name, they look up your name in the voting register where a copy of your signature from when your registered is displayed. You sign the line right next to your signature and the poll worker verifies that your signature matches the one from when you registered.

What is wrong with this?


That doesn't prove anything. People can go in there and be whoever they want to be, forge a signature and cast off a vote. Poll workers won't know the difference. This "poor people don't have IDs bawwwww" crap is just a crutch. IDs are NOT expensive at all. Those opposed to this law only want to keep the steady flow of illegal voters to ensure the return of their Lord and Savior Barack Obama after the election.
 
2012-10-02 01:01:05 PM

Rwa2play: You know how I know you've never read the reason why this was done in the first place?


No. Are you a wizard?

This ain't the same place it was in 1789, and the Constitution was never intended to be kept as a static document for a quarter of a millennium irrespective of changes in the world around it.
 
2012-10-02 01:01:43 PM

theknuckler_33: mr lawson: Lionel Mandrake: The argument is that it amounts to a poll tax, results in keeping eligible voters from voting, and addresses a non-existent "problem"

The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?

Conservatives demand that not a single illegal cast a ballot even if that means US citizens are unfairly prevented from voting.

Liberals demand that not a single US citizen by unfairly prevented from voting even if that means an illegal ballot can be cast.

Denying any US citizen their constitutionally protected right to vote under ANY circumstance is a despicable position to take especially in the absence of any evidence whatsoever that illegals are actually casting ballots.


This is the basic argument.
If there were a low number of Illegals, it would not be such a problem, There are aprox 7-20 million of them and that number can skew results.
 
2012-10-02 01:01:49 PM

coeyagi: B) It wasn't a study - it was me crunching the numbers. Very simple - find electoral college results, compare to national educational rankings, average blue and red states. You can draw your own conclusions, I was just pointing out facts. Also, while the NY example might be true, do you think it would occur like that in every state or a bunch of states that went blue? Please.


Link

A group that historically votes democrat 98% of the time does terrible in school....so extrapolating from that it imust the republicans who bring up the states average....yes?

Even the electoral map will show you blue areas in the inner city...where these people live...and red everywhere else.
 
2012-10-02 01:02:22 PM

Leeds: Toss in an IQ test and I'll back your proposal.


no ..poll tax
 
2012-10-02 01:03:02 PM

mr lawson: If there were a low number of Illegals, it would not be such a problem, There are aprox 7-20 million of them and that number can skew results.


The guy who thinks google search results equal evidence is concerned, you guys.
 
2012-10-02 01:03:05 PM
"I don't agree with it, but it's the law," one person said.

With his group now in line, Martin waits outside.

And waits...And waits...And waits...

He remembers last week...

"We brought one gentleman in- I think the whole total trip was four hours when we got back home."

It's now nearly 11:30 a.m. and Joseph Fowler emerges- frustrated. Because he wasn't already registered to vote, Fowler could not get an ID card.

Bruce Heller hobbles into the photo line, after a painful wait to get his documents in order.

"When he called my number, over on the other side, I couldn't even get out of my chair."

It's nearly noon and Shirley Montgomery emerges from one line- and moves straight to another.

Getting a photo ID will cost Shirley and the others about four-and-a-half hours, from pick-up in Pottstown, to arrival back home.

This experience leads us to ask, could you afford to take half a day away from your job or family to get a new ID?


Anyone who think this isn't disgusting should DIAF.
 
2012-10-02 01:03:25 PM

5monkeys: You sir, are arrogant. That you would believe I am naive to the way people work around the system is insulting. Pointing out how these people don't pay taxes as a way to validate their inability to vote is ridiculous. So what if they have a job that pays under the table. Then let them use the money that they should have paid in taxes to get an ID. This is America 2012, having an ID is not a difficult thing to aquire. All excuses aside they were given time to get one if they want to vote. Stop making excuses for people.


www.geekosystem.com
Well trolled.
 
2012-10-02 01:03:53 PM
About half the people in my grandmother's building (an independent-living place for seniors in Pennsylvania,) didn't have an up-to-date photo ID last month. Most had driver's licenses that had expired after they quit driving, some older ladies never learned to drive at all (up until lately public transit was more than adequate, and a lot of the widows had husbands who drove, which was enough in their day,) and some, mainly from rural areas, had never had one. It just worked out that way.

The DMV is not on any of the bus lines and is nearly forty minutes away by car. They have a shuttle service that takes them to doctors' appointments, but with a five-story building of senior citizens, you pretty much have to book that two weeks in advance. The little town has exactly three taxicabs, one of which has been down because the driver just had a baby, and a lot of the residents don't have family locally to get them out there. Things did not look good, and after Republican politicians admitted it was going to help Romney, a number of my Grandma's friends found themselves contemplating a party change.

Luckily, my grandmother is one of those ladies who's good at organizing things and still fairly well-known in the community. She had my little brother drive her to our old high school and asked if any of the students would be interested in a community-service project. (They need 200 community-service hours to graduate and you need 50 hours of supervised driving with a permit to get a license in PA.) She persuaded the Civics teacher to offer class credit, convinced the principal to excuse participants from classes and set up a schedule whereby students could be excused for part of a school day to drive seniors to get their IDs. I live too far away now to come and help, so I sent Grandma a check to help with the gas money and my brother traded shifts at work so he could drive Grandma's friends as well -partly because he's a loyal grandson, but mainly because the ladies at the building made a huge amount of delicious food for the three-day affair and bachelors would gladly attend the opening of a can of tennis balls if Grandma and her posse were cooking.

Most of the juniors and senior students with cars and a few who borrowed their parents' participated, more for the time off school than anything else, and Grandma reported with great pride that all twenty-seven eighteen-year-olds in the senior class are now registered to vote. (It isn't a very big school.) And even though these senior citizens' polling place is within walking distance (at the fire department,) the students have offered to return in November to give rides again, which is wonderful for all the ones with arthritis and replacement-hips and whatnot who'd been trudging out the half-mile year after year. The program was so successful that Grandma and a few of the other seniors who still drive, but not at night, are working to get licensed and open a AAA-approved traffic school, so the next crop of high-school kids can learn safe driving and the seniors can all get rides to the movies and such in the evenings.

"It's a bad law, Spidey," she told me, "but even if they reverse it, as well they should, I'm a little glad they passed it. Would you believe some of those children have been coming back just to spend time with us?"

So yeah. The vagaries of party politics, assumed fraud and miscellaneous kerfuffle are no match for my Grandma.
 
2012-10-02 01:04:08 PM

Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?


Because helping people out makes them part of the needy 47% that vote for Fartbama. Far better to reenact defacto poll taxes in any way, shape or form.
 
2012-10-02 01:04:30 PM
I vote by mail, so I'm getting a kick...
 
2012-10-02 01:04:45 PM

hetheeme: Good to know that they can commit fraud just long enough to let Obama win the state one last time.


"Voter Fraud" is like "Satanism" back in the 80
s and 90's. It doesn't REALY exist, but the truly stupid out there panic and shiat their drawers every time it grows up.

Good thing you're ot one of those stupid people, right?
 
2012-10-02 01:04:54 PM

Giltric: Even the electoral map will show you blue areas in the inner city...where these people live...and red everywhere else.


This is false.

They'll show you blue areas in the inner city, and blue areas in the rich city suburbs. Rural areas are red.
 
2012-10-02 01:05:12 PM

Giltric: coeyagi: B) It wasn't a study - it was me crunching the numbers. Very simple - find electoral college results, compare to national educational rankings, average blue and red states. You can draw your own conclusions, I was just pointing out facts. Also, while the NY example might be true, do you think it would occur like that in every state or a bunch of states that went blue? Please.

Link

A group that historically votes democrat 98% of the time does terrible in school....so extrapolating from that it imust the republicans who bring up the states average....yes?

Even the electoral map will show you blue areas in the inner city...where these people live...and red everywhere else.


I see that was one link for one state. Obviously that means nothing, obviously. Since neither of us can provide definitive proof, to each his own. All I know is that one side refutes Science, the other doesn't. Based on that alone, I am going with the party that is not the Goddamn Obtuse People (GOP).
 
2012-10-02 01:05:28 PM

mr lawson: Lionel Mandrake: and risking being caught - just to tip local elections? Please, give me examples.

and how..pray i ask...under the current system, "risk being caught?"

There is no risk right now.


Apparently, you've never met any illegal immigrants. The vast majority lay very low and rarely go anywhere or do anything out of their own circle.

Beyond that, you, and everyone else, have yet to convince me there is a problem.

So far, the voter fraud I've seen has not been in-person/at-the-booth fraud, but behind the scenes - claiming that you can only register certain voters or only one party or dumping stacks of (Democratic) applications in the dump.

Before I am ever convinced that OMG FRAUD WE MUST ACT NOW!!1! I need to see evidence that there is a problem. Otherwise, we can discuss and implement an outreach to identify those who would be disenfranchised and make a good faith effort to get them IDs at no cost.

THIS IS NOT A PANIC SITUATION
 
2012-10-02 01:05:53 PM
Joe Blowme:so you are all for applying the same checks on voting as they do on guns? Got it.

Let me state it succinctly for you:

[Many] Republicans argue against greater gun control (including more stringent ID requirements) because they view it as an unjust restriction on a Constitutional right.

[These specific] Republicans argue for more stringent ID requirements on voting because it would help them win elections, even though it can be viewed as an unjust restriction on a Constitutional right..

That is hypocrisy. My feelings on whether we should have voter ID laws or not are irrelevant to that. But thank you for avoiding the issue entirely, it helps me with ensure that I give your opinion the appropriate weight and merit.

I do support ID requirements for voting. I do not support implementing them in the manner in which they are attempting to implement them - i.e., in a lead-up to a very divisive federal election. I do not support the implementation of any changes in voting requirements or process that could potentially disenfranchise voters in a major federal election that would occur within the next calendar year.