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(Google) NewsFlash Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people still allowed to vote in PA   (google.com) divider line 995
    More: NewsFlash, voter ID, dead people, League of Women Voters, provisional ballots, illegal immigrants, Pennsylvania Republicans, swing states, Tom Corbett  
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13298 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 11:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-10-02 07:53:16 PM

Chabash: What about rich old white people? Are they still allowed?


They'll be kept from voting by the Black Panthers.
 
2012-10-02 08:00:48 PM

Mrtraveler01: Giltric: What states do they take an NRA ID as official ID? Do you have a link?

My mistake. I see that they meant to say a concealed carry permit:

Giltric: And you already answered the question of why they dont take college IDs in your previous statement of people forging IDs to buy booze.

So they can forge a college ID but they can't forge a State ID? That's some ironclad logic you're going with there.


Probably due to the criteria and ID you need to present when applying for a CCW.

If you need to prove who you are by orders of magnitude more then you do when you vote why shouldn't a CCW permit pass muster as official ID?

Not only do you need a birth certificate and other forms of ID you get fingerprinted and they run a background check on you. In Philly you also have to be interviewed for your CCW.

It is way easier to get a Voter ID in PA than a CCW permit.

As far as forging a state issued ID....not wih current biometrics and safeguards, holograms, microprinting and UV watermarks.....almost every state changed their driver licenses after 9-11.
 
2012-10-02 08:27:44 PM
We don't need id, let's just issue a basic test!

1. do you speak english
2. do you speak an american dialect of english
3. answer a few randomized questions that any citizen should know about america

And then you can vote!
 
2012-10-02 08:32:32 PM

Cataholic: DeaH: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Poor people tend to move more often because they try to stay ahead of rent increases. Getting a new ID every time you move gets to be both costly and really bothersome. There is also the issue that poor people tend to live in areas that are not close to the offices that issue the IDs. Add this to the poor public transportation making it even harder to get to the place that issues IDs, and you have a prohibitively difficult time keep an up-to-date ID that shows your current address.

Moving means you cannot vote unless you update your voter registration...because otherwise you would be voting in a precinct for people who don't represent you. Are you saying these folks take the time and effort to update their registration (along with all the other tasks incident to having a new address), but cannot get a free ID after they've moved?


My public library, of which there are many, many branches, registers voters. The Post Office registers voters. You can register online. You can get someone to come to your house with a registration form and walk you through the process. Registering is free, convenient, and easy. Are you trying to tell me that it as easy to get a new ID? Because that is clearly untrue, as evidenced by my previous post. Is it really this difficult for you to see this, or do you have another agenda?
 
2012-10-02 08:34:21 PM

Giltric: As far as forging a state issued ID....not wih current biometrics and safeguards, holograms, microprinting and UV watermarks.....almost every state changed their driver licenses after 9-11.


And I'm sure the elderly poll workers are trained to know every minute detail of a legit Voter ID as well.
 
2012-10-02 08:35:22 PM
Just a point of information for anyone suggesting these state ID's to vote are free: the ID itself may be, but the birth certificate (and marriage certificate, divorce decree, etc for women who have ever been married, in some states) are usually not.  It costs money to jump through these hoops, and in some states, you have to have an ID just to get the birth certificate, so it's a nice little bit of circular logic.  The original plaintiff in the PA case tried 3 or 4 times to get her birth certificate, but despite sending in the fee on more than one occasion, they kept losing or were "unable to find" the woman's birth certicate.  She wasn't able to get an ID until after the case made it to court.  Since obtaining the required documentation costs money, that makes getting the ID not free, and it is therefore still a poll tax.
 
2012-10-02 08:37:48 PM

Mrtraveler01: Giltric: As far as forging a state issued ID....not wih current biometrics and safeguards, holograms, microprinting and UV watermarks.....almost every state changed their driver licenses after 9-11.

And I'm sure the elderly poll workers are trained to know every minute detail of a legit Voter ID as well.


Maybe we could use cops as poll workers....unless you have a different idea of who can check to make sure legitimate state issued photo IDs are being used.....
 
2012-10-02 08:49:00 PM

Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: As far as forging a state issued ID....not wih current biometrics and safeguards, holograms, microprinting and UV watermarks.....almost every state changed their driver licenses after 9-11.

And I'm sure the elderly poll workers are trained to know every minute detail of a legit Voter ID as well.

Maybe we could use cops as poll workers....unless you have a different idea of who can check to make sure legitimate state issued photo IDs are being used.....


Either on a state or national level:

A government issued ID with a unique barcode so that when you check in to vote, it would register you in that one location so you can't vote in multiple locations.

But this idea would be very expensive and take a lot of time to perfect. But having the police be poll workers is one of the dumbest ideas I've heard so far.

So instead of actually being out the street and preventing crime, you think they're better able to do the job of a 70-something year old volunteer?
 
2012-10-02 09:03:18 PM

Skyred: We don't need id, let's just issue a basic test!

1. do you speak english
2. do you speak an american dialect of english
3. answer a few randomized questions that any citizen should know about america

And then you can vote!


So, a poll test? A little thing that has already been ruled unconstitutional?
 
2012-10-02 09:21:53 PM

Skyred: We don't need id, let's just issue a basic test!

1. do you speak english
2. do you speak an american dialect of english
3. answer a few randomized questions that any citizen should know about america

And then you can vote!


that rules out Faux News viewers so i'm ok with this.
 
2012-10-02 09:36:57 PM

DeaH: Skyred: We don't need id, let's just issue a basic test!

1. do you speak english
2. do you speak an american dialect of english
3. answer a few randomized questions that any citizen should know about america

And then you can vote!

So, a poll test? A little thing that has already been ruled unconstitutional?


Exactly
 
2012-10-02 09:40:19 PM

Mrtraveler01: Giltric: Mrtraveler01: Giltric: As far as forging a state issued ID....not wih current biometrics and safeguards, holograms, microprinting and UV watermarks.....almost every state changed their driver licenses after 9-11.

And I'm sure the elderly poll workers are trained to know every minute detail of a legit Voter ID as well.

Maybe we could use cops as poll workers....unless you have a different idea of who can check to make sure legitimate state issued photo IDs are being used.....

Either on a state or national level:

A government issued ID with a unique barcode so that when you check in to vote, it would register you in that one location so you can't vote in multiple locations.

But this idea would be very expensive and take a lot of time to perfect. But having the police be poll workers is one of the dumbest ideas I've heard so far.

So instead of actually being out the street and preventing crime, you think they're better able to do the job of a 70-something year old volunteer?


Hmmm I like your first idea. It would be like a bureau of elections/authorizations/security/tracking. Now don't get me wrong I'm a small government type but we all wind up biting the bullet every now and again. It's for the greater good.
 
2012-10-02 10:22:42 PM

rewind2846: "spmkk:

Voting is the *only* conditional (i.e. contingent on age, citizenship, criminal record, etc.) constitutional right that is NOT currently subject to verification of identity. Why do you believe it should get a pass?

Because if the state is going to deny a right to one of its citizens, the burden is on the state to prove or disprove their qualifications for that right, and not on the citizen themselves. If the state cannot prove their accusation, the right is conferred and continued automatically and without question.

In other words, as in a court trial, it is the states responsibility to prove a defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and not the defendant's duty to prove themselves innocent."




I have to believe you're not seriously making this argument. I could say exactly the same thing about exercising literally any other right, and you would laugh me out of the building.

When your 17-year-old son tries to purchase a six-pack of beer (i.e. exercise his conditional constitutional right to own property), should the state have to prove that he's underage rather than require him to present photo ID (as they now do) to demonstrate that he isn't? Should the state be required to prove that I'm not who I say I am when I come into a gun store to purchase a firearm (i.e. exercise my conditional constitutional right to bear arms), rather than stipulating that I verify my identity by showing photo ID? How about entering the country from abroad (an inalienable right for every non-felonious citizen)? Next time you travel, try telling passport control to take your identity on your word, and tell them it's their responsibility to prove you don't belong if they have any doubts -- let us know how that goes.

Once again: why do you believe this conditional constitutional right is somehow different than all other such rights, and why should its exercise be regulated less rigorously?
 
2012-10-02 10:48:45 PM

Bendal: "bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Lots of people who are "poor" work at jobs that don't give them time off, or if they don't work, may not have a vehicle, or have to rely on public transportation that doesn't go past whereever the ID office is located and is open."



...And many, MANY of those very people are Republican. Democrats don't hold the monopoly on being poor - if voter ID laws so ruthlessly disenfranchise "the poor", why is it that not a single poor Republican (of which, again, there are many - arguably at least as many as there are poor Democrats, and more in some states) seems to have a problem with them?


Bendal: "Some states closed ID offices in areas of heavy Democratic populations"


Debunked horseshiat.

Pro tip: taking your talking points form the Kos doesn't make you any more enlightened than those who get them from Fox News.
 
2012-10-02 10:53:56 PM

spmkk: Bendal: "Some states closed ID offices in areas of heavy Democratic populations"

Debunked horseshiat.

Pro tip: taking your talking points form the Kos doesn't make you any more enlightened than those who get them from Fox News.


FTL:


In a September 2011 item-- in which we rated Pants on Fire a claim by the Democratic Governors Association that Walker was denying Democrats the right to vote -- we noted Walker had dropped a plan to close DMV offices.

Walker had faced pressure from lawmakers and citizens to shelve the plan.


So it's only debunked BS because Walker didn't want to go forward with it because it was too costly politically.

Yeah...that's much better.
 
2012-10-02 11:12:04 PM

spmkk: rewind2846: "spmkk:

Voting is the *only* conditional (i.e. contingent on age, citizenship, criminal record, etc.) constitutional right that is NOT currently subject to verification of identity. Why do you believe it should get a pass?

Because if the state is going to deny a right to one of its citizens, the burden is on the state to prove or disprove their qualifications for that right, and not on the citizen themselves. If the state cannot prove their accusation, the right is conferred and continued automatically and without question.

In other words, as in a court trial, it is the states responsibility to prove a defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and not the defendant's duty to prove themselves innocent."



I have to believe you're not seriously making this argument. I could say exactly the same thing about exercising literally any other right, and you would laugh me out of the building.

When your 17-year-old son tries to purchase a six-pack of beer (i.e. exercise his conditional constitutional right to own property), should the state have to prove that he's underage rather than require him to present photo ID (as they now do) to demonstrate that he isn't? Should the state be required to prove that I'm not who I say I am when I come into a gun store to purchase a firearm (i.e. exercise my conditional constitutional right to bear arms), rather than stipulating that I verify my identity by showing photo ID? How about entering the country from abroad (an inalienable right for every non-felonious citizen)? Next time you travel, try telling passport control to take your identity on your word, and tell them it's their responsibility to prove you don't belong if they have any doubts -- let us know how that goes.

Once again: why do you believe this conditional constitutional right is somehow different than all other such rights, and why should its exercise be regulated less rigorously?


Buying alcohol isn't a constitutional right you moron. And you don't need an ID to buy it. You are only ID'ed because the state rigorously fines companies that violate the law of selling to minors.

As for guns, that was addressed earlier in this thread.

As for disenfranchisement, it's because it obviously affects more Democrats than Republicans, by a significant margin. There is a vast disparty of minorities who are incredibly poor compared to white people, and they tend to only vote for one side. Don't be f*cking obtuse, you brain dead Fox News parrot.
 
2012-10-02 11:18:20 PM
Voter suppression; period.
 
2012-10-02 11:29:39 PM
If we're gonna suppress votes, I want it to be via science test.

Even something simple:

Put the following things in order of biggest to smallest:

1. 1 au
2. 1 light year
3. 1 muon
4. Earth
5. Jupiter
 
2012-10-02 11:34:22 PM
Election fraud is committed by Republicans, these laws are election fraud. They've flat-out admitted it.

End of line.
 
2012-10-02 11:46:38 PM
I'm going to PA so I can vote 5032 times!
 
2012-10-02 11:58:13 PM

Marine1: justtray: Marine1: Disposable Rob: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

I liked how you list things that only people with money do. You do have the sense to realize that poverty is a major disadvantage, though. Some of us try to focus on that, but then Republicans complain that poor people own refrigerators and get government cell phones.

Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.

That's shiat you do no matter what your income level.

An ID isn't required to buy alcohol or cigarettes, which was already told to you. Occasionally you have to prove your age, but that's just the discretion of the shop owner.

You're reaching, and simultaneously pretending like you aren't bias. Just go the fark away moron. You've been shot down so many times in here you should be embarrassed for yourself.

It isn't required to buy alcohol or cigarettes? Let me tell all of the local high school burnouts to move to your locale so they can get their stuff ...


I think I have been carded for alcohol maybe once or twice, even though I started buying it right after I turned 21. If people know you or think you look old enough, they will usually just sell it to you. Or just get somebody with an ID to buy it for you.

I lost my ID once and didn't get around to replacing it for months. It really is a pain in some areas. Plus I have had an ID with the wrong address on it for about 5 years, and it was the wrong state for a few years of that. So.. not sure how this would prevent fraud any more so than checking a name off a list. Also, what about absentee ballots...? Hard to ID for those.
 
2012-10-02 11:58:15 PM

rewind2846: Just Another OC Homeless Guy:

God damn but you're an idiot. A "right" is something that is non-contextual: It applies to EVERYONE. Voting is therefore a privilege and NOT a right, as it does not apply, for example, to felons and ex-felons. Just this one example shoots down most of your points.

You're even more stupid than your name suggests. Read closely, and learn.

Voting is a right that all adults have in this country, and that ca right cannot be taken away unless you have not fulfilled your obligations as a citizen (i.e. convicted of a criminal act). Under no other circumstance does any adult who is mentally sound (I think you skipped that one) have that right removed.
Also, there are states where ex-felons can indeed vote (38 states and the District of Columbia)
Some can even vote while incarcerated (Maine, Vermont, absentee ballot)
Only 12 states permanently rescind voting rights, and only under certain conditions, depending on the crime committed and other variables. Link

Also.... 2nd amendment guarantees owning a gun but not buying it? So how do you own a gun without buying it? Why I guess you just build one (oh, wait, you need to have a federally approved gunsmith license to do that). Or I guess you could just steal one.

When the second amendment was written, people made weapons themselves. The amendment was created so that soldiers could not come into your house uninvited, and so that the local militia could be called upon in time of need. Read:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

That is the full text. No where in this sentence does it have a provision that grants you full access to trot on down to the local gun shop and buy a weapon. How you get the gun is your business. The amendment simply protects your right to have and keep it.

Yeah, you're an idiot. Go read some farking books and get back to me.

Looks like you might need a few readin ...


LOL! You're essentially just repeating yourself, and this is really getting boring. Except for this:

>>>>>You're even more stupid than your name suggests.

Ho ho ho! So homeless people are stupid? My THAT'S not a stereotype, nosireebob!

Go away kid, your boring me.
 
2012-10-03 12:03:58 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Ho ho ho! So homeless people are stupid? My THAT'S not a stereotype, nosireebob!

Go away kid, your boring me.


You need to stop hogging the library computer. Other people want a turn you know.
 
2012-10-03 12:12:38 AM
FTFA: Michael J. Pitts, who teaches election law at Indiana University, said Pennsylvania's decision is distinctive because of the court's discomfort with changing voter identification requirements so close to an election.

Precisely. I think some common sense reforms are not a bad idea, but not right next to a major election. Purging outdated voter information is good too---in an off-year so people have a chance to catch and challenge it before a major election.
 
2012-10-03 12:14:53 AM

rewind2846: Just Another OC Homeless Guy:

God damn but you're an idiot. A "right" is something that is non-contextual: It applies to EVERYONE. Voting is therefore a privilege and NOT a right, as it does not apply, for example, to felons and ex-felons. Just this one example shoots down most of your points.

You're even more stupid than your name suggests. Read closely, and learn.

Voting is a right that all adults have in this country, and that ca right cannot be taken away unless you have not fulfilled your obligations as a citizen (i.e. convicted of a criminal act). Under no other circumstance does any adult who is mentally sound (I think you skipped that one) have that right removed.
Also, there are states where ex-felons can indeed vote (38 states and the District of Columbia)
Some can even vote while incarcerated (Maine, Vermont, absentee ballot)
Only 12 states permanently rescind voting rights, and only under certain conditions, depending on the crime committed and other variables. Link

Also.... 2nd amendment guarantees owning a gun but not buying it? So how do you own a gun without buying it? Why I guess you just build one (oh, wait, you need to have a federally approved gunsmith license to do that). Or I guess you could just steal one.

When the second amendment was written, people made weapons themselves. The amendment was created so that soldiers could not come into your house uninvited, and so that the local militia could be called upon in time of need. Read:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

That is the full text. No where in this sentence does it have a provision that grants you full access to trot on down to the local gun shop and buy a weapon. How you get the gun is your business. The amendment simply protects your right to have and keep it.

Yeah, you're an idiot. Go read some farking books and get back to me.

Looks like you might need a few readin ...


I take it you have never actually read any of the legal briefs regarding the 2nd amendment have you?
 
2012-10-03 01:15:19 AM

firefly212: If we're gonna suppress votes, I want it to be via science test.

Even something simple:

Put the following things in order of biggest to smallest:

1. 1 au
2. 1 light year
3. 1 muon
4. Earth
5. Jupiter


1. 1 muon
2. earth
3. Jupiter
4. 1 au
5. 1 light year
 
2012-10-03 02:23:47 AM

Leeds: IlGreven: Leeds: IlGreven: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Er, um, it costs money they don't have?

Yep, that's the democrat's argument. The free ID's will cost the poor more money than they have.

You mean the "free ID" that requires a check or money order to obtain?

No, I mean the free ID that's free, you ignorant slut.


...and where, pray tell, do you get a free ID in Pennsylvania? According to the OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITE THAT I LINKED TO, a Photo ID costs $13.95. And because the PA DMV doesn't take cash, you also have to pay to maintain a checking account for the checks you need to write out to get them.  Last I checked, checks and money orders were not free, though some checking accounts are. And $13.95 for a photo ID is a larger fee than the last poll taxes that were abolished by the 24th amendment. Now, if you actually want to change this and make government-issued ID's ACTUALLY FREE to anyone who asked, then, sure, you can say that the argument's ridiculous. But for some people, $13.95 is more than they can afford, even only one time every four years. And it shouldn't be asked of anyone to vote.
 
2012-10-03 02:37:24 AM

IlGreven: "Leeds: IlGreven: Leeds: IlGreven: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Er, um, it costs money they don't have?

Yep, that's the democrat's argument. The free ID's will cost the poor more money than they have.

You mean the "free ID" that requires a check or money order to obtain?

No, I mean the free ID that's free, you ignorant slut.

...and where, pray tell, do you get a free ID in Pennsylvania? According to the OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITE THAT I LINKED TO, a Photo ID costs $13.95. And because the PA DMV doesn't take cash, you also have to pay to maintain a checking account for the checks you need to write out to get them.  Last I checked, checks and money orders were not free, though some checking accounts are. And $13.95 for a photo ID is a larger fee than the last poll taxes that were abolished by the 24th amendment. Now, if you actually want to change this and make government-issued ID's ACTUALLY FREE to anyone who asked, then, sure, you can say that the argument's ridiculous. But for some people, $13.95 is more than they can afford, even only one time every four years. And it shouldn't be asked of anyone to vote."



Your failure lies somewhere between lack of Google skills and absence of reading comprehension. From another page on the same OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITE (3rd hit in a Google search for "pennsylvania voter id free", btw): "$13.50 fee for acquiring an Identification Card will be waived for individuals completing the Oath/ Affirmation Voter ID form."

So yes, the argument is ridiculous.
 
2012-10-03 03:29:46 AM

ChipNASA:
Don't ya'all fret none....its still gonna be RED. 


There are more yinz in Pittsburgh and youz in Philly than all the y'allz in between.
 
2012-10-03 03:58:12 AM

IlGreven: Leeds: IlGreven: Leeds: IlGreven: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Er, um, it costs money they don't have?

Yep, that's the democrat's argument. The free ID's will cost the poor more money than they have.

You mean the "free ID" that requires a check or money order to obtain?

No, I mean the free ID that's free, you ignorant slut.

...and where, pray tell, do you get a free ID in Pennsylvania? According to the OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITE THAT I LINKED TO, a Photo ID costs $13.95. And because the PA DMV doesn't take cash, you also have to pay to maintain a checking account for the checks you need to write out to get them.  Last I checked, checks and money orders were not free, though some checking accounts are. And $13.95 for a photo ID is a larger fee than the last poll taxes that were abolished by the 24th amendment. Now, if you actually want to change this and make government-issued ID's ACTUALLY FREE to anyone who asked, then, sure, you can say that the argument's ridiculous. But for some people, $13.95 is more than they can afford, even only one time every four years. And it shouldn't be asked of anyone to vote.


Don't forget that it is probably illegal to take the bus naked so clothing is a poll tax or something because clothing costs money....wah wah wah boo farking hoo.
 
2012-10-03 07:13:31 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: As I said: This is what comes from getting your politics, sociology and culture from TV and Internet memes while living in your mom's basement.


I own my home outright, Am a US Navy veteran with Persian Gulf experience, have 2 children in college and have been gainfully employed for the past 3+ decades in the same field.

Who's the one generalizing and being a dickhead.
 
2012-10-03 09:10:20 AM

TheBigJerk: Election fraud is committed by Republicans, these laws are election fraud. They've flat-out admitted it.

End of line.


So someone mentions that Illegal aliens vote democrat and also that they are trying to keep illegals from illegally voting and your take on the situation is: "ELECTION FRAUD!"

Are you trolling or stupid?
 
2012-10-03 09:11:56 AM

Lunakki: I lost my ID once and didn't get around to replacing it for months. It really is a pain in some areas. Plus I have had an ID with the wrong address on it for about 5 years, and it was the wrong state for a few years of that. So.. not sure how this would prevent fraud any more so than checking a name off a list. Also, what about absentee ballots...? Hard to ID for those.


Why should your admission of breaking the law effect this voter-ID discussion?
 
2012-10-03 09:14:30 AM

IlGreven: Leeds: IlGreven: Leeds: IlGreven: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Er, um, it costs money they don't have?

Yep, that's the democrat's argument. The free ID's will cost the poor more money than they have.

You mean the "free ID" that requires a check or money order to obtain?

No, I mean the free ID that's free, you ignorant slut.

...and where, pray tell, do you get a free ID in Pennsylvania? According to the OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITE THAT I LINKED TO, a Photo ID costs $13.95. And because the PA DMV doesn't take cash, you also have to pay to maintain a checking account for the checks you need to write out to get them.  Last I checked, checks and money orders were not free, though some checking accounts are. And $13.95 for a photo ID is a larger fee than the last poll taxes that were abolished by the 24th amendment. Now, if you actually want to change this and make government-issued ID's ACTUALLY FREE to anyone who asked, then, sure, you can say that the argument's ridiculous. But for some people, $13.95 is more than they can afford, even only one time every four years. And it shouldn't be asked of anyone to vote.


Oh for farks sake, can't you even read the words posted on this thread? Not only do you claim that you don't know how to do a web search, but you also are incapable of using the "ctrl-f" command? You are a farking idiot. $0 does not equal $13.95, you pathetic little shiate.
 
2012-10-03 09:39:29 AM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Um, in most places you still have to register to vote.
 
2012-10-03 09:44:20 AM

OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?


Who is least likely to have a state issues ID, someone pulling down six figures or someone living in a housing project?
 
2012-10-03 10:56:01 AM
So who exactly manages to avoid having some form of ID throughout their life but takes time to vote?

Off-the-grid folks? By definition they are utterly dismissive of the system.
Crazy homeless dudes? Are they lucid enough to navigate the electoral process?

So who then?
 
2012-10-03 11:04:19 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy:
Ho ho ho! So homeless people are stupid? My THAT'S not a stereotype, nosireebob!

Go away kid, your boring me.


"Kid"? Please... When you can remember the first moon landing because you watched it live on tv, then talk to me about "kid", okay? If I were repeating myself, it's only because that tactic usually works on small children and the mentally deficient. Which are you?
Bye, now. *drop*
 
2012-10-03 11:10:25 AM

redmid17: I take it you have never actually read any of the legal briefs regarding the 2nd amendment have you?


Tell you what... if there is a legal brief from a court case or judgement which guarantees the physical act of going into a place of business and purchasing a gun, I would like to read it. Not owning a gun. Not possessing a gun. Not making a gun. Just the part of the brief that guarantees the "right" to leave your house and perform this act.

One link will do, thanks.
 
2012-10-03 11:26:50 AM

ShonenBat: So who exactly manages to avoid having some form of ID throughout their life but takes time to vote?

Off-the-grid folks? By definition they are utterly dismissive of the system.
Crazy homeless dudes? Are they lucid enough to navigate the electoral process?

So who then?


I've already stated how it can happen. Get a part time job whille you are in HS close to your house. Get on parents account and setup direct deposit, move to full time out of school. Bam no need to ever have a photo id. But tell me how this isn't possible go ahead.
 
2012-10-03 11:55:05 AM

rewind2846: redmid17: I take it you have never actually read any of the legal briefs regarding the 2nd amendment have you?

Tell you what... if there is a legal brief from a court case or judgement which guarantees the physical act of going into a place of business and purchasing a gun, I would like to read it. Not owning a gun. Not possessing a gun. Not making a gun. Just the part of the brief that guarantees the "right" to leave your house and perform this act.

One link will do, thanks.


Feel free to read the 7th courts decision on blocking the Chicago gun range ban. They make it very clear that Chicago's ban was unconstitutional because it prevented the exercise of 2nd amendment rights (practicing, purchasing bullets, etc...) within a certain area. They didn't explicitly say purchase from a gun store, but purchasing a weapon or its ammunition is included within the scope of exercising the 2nd amendment.

Here's a brief snippet from an article. You can feel free to look it up yourself if you want:

"The question is not whether or how easily Chicago residents can comply with the range-training requirement by traveling outside the city; the plaintiffs are not seeking an injunction against the range-training requirement," Judge Diane Sykes wrote for the majority opinion. "The pertinent question is whether the Second Amendment prevents the City Council from banning firing ranges everywhere in the city; that ranges are present in neighboring jurisdictions has no bearing on this question."
Sykes rebuked Kendall's for "a profoundly mistaken assumption" in reasoning that one may measure harm to a constitutional right by the extent to which it can be exercised in another jurisdiction.
"It's hard to imagine anyone suggesting that Chicago may prohibit the exercise of a free-speech or religious-liberty right within its borders on the rationale that those rights may be freely enjoyed in the suburbs," Sykes wrote. "That sort of argument should be no less unimaginable in the Second Amendment context."
"The judge was evidently concerned about the novelty of Second Amendment litigation and proceeded from a default position in favor of the City," Sykes added.
Firearm training is protected under the Second Amendment, according to the ruling. "The right to possess firearms for protection implies a corresponding right to acquire and maintain proficiency in their use; the core right wouldn't mean much without the training and practice that makes it effective," Sykes wrote.
 
2012-10-03 01:27:09 PM

qorkfiend: Nutsac_Jim: qorkfiend: kimmygibblershomework: I show my ID to buy a farking video game or even 2 liter of soda if I use a check card so what is the BFD? Kinda like the whole Arizona

Buying video games is not a right. Buying a 2-liter of soda is not a right, and I don't believe you when you say you had to show ID to do so.

Not having to pay any fee to be able to vote, unlike your examples, is a Constitutionally protected right. That's the "BFD"; laws that require you to pay in order to get a valid ID to vote are in violation of the Constitutional prohibition on poll taxes.

Since the ID's are free, how exactly would they be considered a poll tax? Please do not use the argument that it is a tax for someone to have to pay for gas to get to the ID facility. there is no right to vote from home.

The supporting documentation is not free, and time off of work for someone on an hourly wage adds up very quickly.


LMAO then if they really can't rub two nickels together to have an ID, then how do they get state aid without one? Yes I use an ID when purchasing things with my credit card. It is written in black Sharpie on the back "CHECK ID" instead of my signature, which is conveniently located on my state farking issued Driver's License. You gotta think this stuff through, man.
 
2012-10-03 02:01:18 PM

rewind2846: redmid17: I take it you have never actually read any of the legal briefs regarding the 2nd amendment have you?

Tell you what... if there is a legal brief from a court case or judgement which guarantees the physical act of going into a place of business and purchasing a gun, I would like to read it. Not owning a gun. Not possessing a gun. Not making a gun. Just the part of the brief that guarantees the "right" to leave your house and perform this act.

One link will do, thanks.


Here's the relevant part from the injunction now that I had time to look:

The plaintiffs have identified several provisions
of the Ordinance that implicate activities integral to
range training: CHI. MUN. CODE §§ 8-20-020 (prohibiting
the possession of handguns outside the home), 8-20-030
(prohibiting the possession of long guns outside the
home or business), 8-20-080 (prohibiting the possession
of ammunition without a corresponding Permit and
registration certificate), 8-20-100 (prohibiting the
transfer of firearms and ammunition except through
inheritance),
8-24-010 (prohibiting the discharge of
firearms except for self-defense, defense of another, or
hunting). To the extent that these provisions prohibit
law-abiding, responsible citizens from using a firing
range in the city, the preliminary injunction should
include them as well. Similarly, the injunction should
prohibit the City from using its zoning code to exclude
firing ranges from locating anywhere in the city.


Link

These kind of references are not the most common because a rational person would realize that the ability to purchase a gun book is fairly inherent in the ability to exercise your 2nd 1st amendment rights subject to reasonable restrictions like licensing and zoning for the business in question.
 
2012-10-04 09:20:54 AM

kimmygibblershomework: LMAO then if they really can't rub two nickels together to have an ID, then how do they get state aid without one? Yes I use an ID when purchasing things with my credit card. It is written in black Sharpie on the back "CHECK ID" instead of my signature, which is conveniently located on my state farking issued Driver's License. You gotta think this stuff through, man.


What you are doing is declaring your signature is "Check ID" and if the cashier was following Visa merchant rules they could only allow the transaction to go through if your signature on the receipt literally says "Check ID", the only reason you haven't been called on it yet is because most of them are morons too.

Also, you are opening yourself up to more potential credit card fraud by encouraging minimum wage workers to handle both your credit card number and all of your personal information, home address, birthdate, license number, etc. The number 1 source of credit card fraud is from service workers handling their customers information. VISA used to make it against the rules to check identification even if they did write "Check ID" like a retard, and would threaten to stop doing business with a company found checking customers identification, but businesses lobbied congress to force VISA to allow them to during the credit reform laws as they were on the hook for any fraudulent purchases.  So now it is legally allowed, it still does not mean it's in your best interest
 
2012-10-04 05:46:29 PM

Leeds: 2wolves: Leeds: was the legislators' method of beginning to track this data.

No. Just plain, no. It was intended to deliver the Electoral College votes to Mr. Romney. The exact quote is stark and leaves no room for spin.

So someone points out that if we ban illegals from voting, Romney will win & you take that quote and spin it to pretend that illegals should be allowed to vote and he's somehow a meenie for pointing out that illegals vote Democrat?

Seriously?


I'm serious, you're silly.
 
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