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(Google) NewsFlash Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people still allowed to vote in PA   (google.com) divider line 995
    More: NewsFlash, voter ID, dead people, League of Women Voters, provisional ballots, illegal immigrants, Pennsylvania Republicans, swing states, Tom Corbett  
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13303 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 11:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-10-02 04:07:26 PM

thenewmissus: My doga and I are moving to PA stat.

/nice troll subby


Yes, because moving is more cost effective and less troublesome than acquiring photo ID.
 
2012-10-02 04:07:26 PM

IlGreven: Leeds: IlGreven: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Er, um, it costs money they don't have?

Yep, that's the democrat's argument. The free ID's will cost the poor more money than they have.

You mean the "free ID" that requires a check or money order to obtain?


No, I mean the free ID that's free, you ignorant slut.
 
2012-10-02 04:07:40 PM

CravenMorehead: Voter ID is a fine idea. The problem is that Republicans want to push these laws through as fast as they can making it harder for people that typically vote Democratic. Students, minorities and the poor will all have a more difficult time voting.


Fixed that for you.
 
2012-10-02 04:07:44 PM
We should hire Canada or Iraq to run our elections.
 
2012-10-02 04:08:14 PM

Nutsac_Jim: firefly212: Ya, I live in the mountains, as do many people in PA... its not free to have someone drive you for hours down to the dmv, spend their whole day with you, then drive you back up. You lose not only a days pay for not working, but another days pay in gas money... and that's at the very bottom end of the scale, you lying sack of shiat. For people struggling to pay for food and medicine, between taking the day off and gas money, that's several days of food they don't have.

Again.. how did you get your job in the first place, without supplying them an ID?

Alternatively, if you do not want to drive a whole day to get to town, try using a stamp and an absentee ballot.


What part of I have a passport are you not getting? Passport got me everything, but it doesn't have my address on it. In Colorado, first time absentee ballots require a photocopy of proof of residency (e.g. non-drivers ID). Also, it's not that I don't want to drive, it's that my neurologist says it's decidedly unsafe for me to do so, spasms and lack of proprioception in the legs seem to make him wary of me operating 2k pounds of steel at 60mph. In short, passports are great, and if it was as easy to get a (free) non-drivers ID as a passport, or if they would let me use my passport as proof that I'm legit to vote, I'd be ok with these laws... but as it stands, asking people to spend days of pay and time on allaying the states assertion that all people without ID are committing felonies does not strike me as particularly reasonable.
 
2012-10-02 04:08:50 PM

Aarontology: "Simpson ordered the state not to enforce the photo ID requirement in this year's presidential election but will allow it to go into full effect next year."

Oh, the Republicans are going to be pissed off they're getting what they wanted, but not in time to achieve their disenfranchisement goals.


Yes, because this is the last election, ever.
 
2012-10-02 04:09:26 PM

I_C_Weener: Leeds: THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.


But its inconvenient.  And so are going to the polls.  I mean get out of bed and sometime between 6am and 8pm go somewhere in your neighborhood to vote.  Its unconscionable.


As opposed to, going to the DMV on a weekday when you're supposed to be at work, for a two hour window of opportunity, and the lines are four hours long, and it takes at least an hour of public transit to get there, and requires that you have a form that your parents lost 20 years ago, and for you to request said document it requires the ID that you are trying to get. QED.
 
2012-10-02 04:10:24 PM
Also, NutsacJim, I find it telling that you think all you need to do to skirt these voter ID laws is to sign up for an absentee ballot... why would you support these voter ID laws if they really were that easy to get around? Doesn't seem like it would eliminate fraud nearly as much as it would just favor people who planned on committing fraud in a different manner.
 
2012-10-02 04:11:12 PM

winsecure: I can accept the argument at face value stating that requiring someone obtain a photo ID is to great of an encumbrance on the poor for a constitutionally guaranteed right. That this presents to great of a challenge for the poor to overcome.

However, that argument quickly falls down in comparison to how other constitutionally guaranteed rights are treated. The right to bear arms is supposedly guaranteed via Amendment 2. However, it is apparently not too great of an encumbrance to requires $431.50 in application and fingerprinting fees in New York.

So a few dollars investment for obtaining a photo ID is too great of a financial burden for one constitutionally protected right, while on the other hand it is perfectly reasonable to have people fork over hundreds of dollars for another?

"Constitutionally protected rights" should either be able to incur an encumbrance to exercise, or they shouldn't. But too many people think double standards are perfectly acceptable.

/pick one or the other


In order to restrict rights explicitly spelled out in the constitution, you must demonstrate a compelling state interest AND the prove that it cannot be reasonably accomplished through other means.

The state has a compelling interest (public safey) in keeping firearms out of the hands of convicted criminals, and those who are mentally incompetent and/or insane. THis is sustained by the number of such purchases that are currently blocked by ID checks and the number of times when guns are used by repeat offenders, etc.

In this case, the law fails BOTH tests. You cannot demonstrate a compelling need (lack of examples of in-person voter fraud), and you cannot demonstrate that this law will prevent anything but the saddest, most inept attempts to misrepresent yourself at the polls. You cannot demonstrate a lack of viable alternatives, because there are plenty of alternatives that do NOT needlessly restrict otherwise valid voters from having their say, but you CAN point to existing data on the large number of voters that this will disenfranchise. At very least there is no demonstrated urgency for implementing the law, and preventing its implementation for THIS election allows the redress of its other shortcomings.

In other words, implementing this law immediately has the effect of disenfranchising thousands of voters, while presenting an easily overcome means of ensuring that *hypothetical* invalid votes are not cast. When you do NOT succeed in preventing the crime, but DO succeed in punishing the innocent, that is a bad bargain. Allowing it to take effect for the NEXT election allows the state to remove other unnecessary barriers to getting the ID needed, and more than adequate time for individual voters to obtain such ID.
 
2012-10-02 04:12:23 PM

authorizeduser: Aarontology: "Simpson ordered the state not to enforce the photo ID requirement in this year's presidential election but will allow it to go into full effect next year."

Oh, the Republicans are going to be pissed off they're getting what they wanted, but not in time to achieve their disenfranchisement goals.

Yes, because this is the last election, ever.


The problem, like I stated in another post, is I don't think the GOP realizes how many rural people they're going to disenfrachise. This is a good part of their base... in urban areas, within two years, everyone is going to be compliant... this measure is ultimately going to disenfranchise more of their own voters than it will anyone else.
 
2012-10-02 04:13:09 PM

Leeds: PsiChick: Leeds: PsiChick: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Because if you're working a dead-end job and the DMV is only open from nine to five, you can't take time off work to renew your ID. And if you've been in that situation for a long time, you probably don't have a car or an up-to-date ID, because almost anyone will take an expired ID. This problem is multiplied exponentially if you have a child or some other responsibility.

Then it's probably a good thing that they're open 6 days a week.

// Just sayin'

Ha, you're funny.

/I don't know who runs your DMV, but there ain't a sixth day out here.
//And even if there were, see above--do you really think a weekend bus schedule, weekend babysitters (if you even have enough money for that), and DMV Saturday hours, if you don't have a six-day job, is reasonable? Because no, it's not.

If this theoretical person is unable to carve out an hour or two over the course of 8 months then it is clear that they would be unable to make it to the polls on election day anyway.

As a result, they are likely voting using an absentee ballot which does not require a photo ID anyway.

Where's the disenfranchisement?


A) Assuming they knew about it 8 months in advance. Oh, you thought the GOP was rolling through the poor neighborhoods with flyers? Ha ha, look at you.
B) Amount of time it takes to vote is usually SIGNIFICANTLY less than the time it takes to get a Photo ID. In DE, it took me 2 hours to wait in line just to have my Driver's License renewed.
C) This is your argument to deflect away from the lack of need. Anything to avoid the crux of the issue, right bro?
D) Seriously, do you enjoy rape? This is the third time I asked and the evidence is mounting that you do.
 
2012-10-02 04:13:47 PM

spmkk:

Voting is the *only* conditional (i.e. contingent on age, citizenship, criminal record, etc.) constitutional right that is NOT currently subject to verification of identity. Why do you believe it should get a pass?


Because if the state is going to deny a right to one of its citizens, the burden is on the state to prove or disprove their qualifications for that right, and not on the citizen themselves. If the state cannot prove their accusation, the right is conferred and continued automatically and without question.

In other words, as in a court trial, it is the states responsibility to prove a defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and not the defendant's duty to prove themselves innocent.
 
2012-10-02 04:16:07 PM

qorkfiend: kimmygibblershomework: I show my ID to buy a farking video game or even 2 liter of soda if I use a check card so what is the BFD? Kinda like the whole Arizona

Buying video games is not a right. Buying a 2-liter of soda is not a right, and I don't believe you when you say you had to show ID to do so.

Not having to pay any fee to be able to vote, unlike your examples, is a Constitutionally protected right. That's the "BFD"; laws that require you to pay in order to get a valid ID to vote are in violation of the Constitutional prohibition on poll taxes.


Since the ID's are free, how exactly would they be considered a poll tax? Please do not use the argument that it is a tax for someone to have to pay for gas to get to the ID facility. there is no right to vote from home.
 
2012-10-02 04:16:08 PM
Theaetetus

I_C_Weener: I believe it is time to ensure the right to vote for everyone. My three kids should be eligible to vote. Its guaranteed in the Constitution fer chrissakes!!!!

Are your kids over 18? Because the Constitution explicitly sets that limit.


Does it also explicitly say only US citizens can vote? Why is it OK to card for age but not citizenship?
 
2012-10-02 04:16:09 PM

firefly212: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: cptjeff: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: from all the (deceased / non-citizen) people voting

Can you show any proof of this happening? Any at all? Because Pennsylvania sure as hell looked for some, but they had to admit in court that there was absolutely no evidence of this actually happening.

In person voter fraud simply does not happen. It's a high risk crime with an incredibly low reward.

In example after example here on Fark, I have been shown by leading Fark Liberals that actual proof of a positive assertion is totally unnecessary. Can you prove it is NOT happening? go on, I dare you.

So we're going to disenfranchise millions of people based once more on ideological idiocy? Seems smart. I think what the conservatives fail to understand is how many rural whites they're gonna end up disenfranchising if this voter ID stuff gets standardized. For urban people (no, I don't just mean black people, I mean people in urban areas) . It will be easy for unions and democrats to organize bus trips to the dmv to get non-drivers IDs and get all those people ready to vote in the next four years... otoh, rural voters, people who may never have come down to the city ever, they're gonna be SOL.


ZOMFG, what century are you living in?

When native villages in the freaking Congo and aborigine tribes in the Australian outback (yes, there are still a few who prefer the old life) have cell phones and Internet access, do you actually think that there are rural people who don't have such access?

'cause 'murkins are just dumb.

them's all those hatfields and mccoys down thar in the holler.

This is what comes from getting your politics, sociology and culture from TV and Internet memes while living in your mom's basement.
 
2012-10-02 04:16:31 PM

rewind2846: olddinosaur: If you google "illegal immigrant voting" you will find about 8.5 million articles more or less.

There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

Obama beat McCain by 69 million to 59 million last election; this one is likely to be closer.

How many of those votes were illegal?

Now I know yous trollin. I'm in California. I have been registered to vote here since 1988, and haven't missed a single election. To vote here you have to bring nothing more than your voter booklet, the one the state mails to every registered voter every election cycle. You go to the polls, they ask you who you are and your address, then check it off on a list with everyone else in that precinct, then they have you sign your name on the same sheet. This also takes care of voter fraud because you have to know english well enough that you can understand what the old people at the polls are saying, to answer them, and to sign your name.

No illegal immigrant is going to do all that. The ones I know do their damndest to stay under the radar... why would they purposely go into a government sponsored function to expose themselves?

Class, this is a classic textbook example of a republican who thinks that the office of president should only be legitimately held by a republican, preferable a pale one. Near as I can tell, you're full of sh*t.


THIS

Turnout is usually between 55 and 60% in presidential elections. There are millions of people who are registered or otherwise legally eligible to vote but just don't give shiat. It's absurd to think that some person who sneaked across the border and is avoiding contact with all government agencies and officials is so interested in voting.

It's farking laughably retarded.
 
2012-10-02 04:18:02 PM

kronicfeld: No, sorry, you can't throw up eleventh-hour barriers to vote and claim that they won't have a substantial impact.


It's designed to have a substantial impact on voter fraud. I know, I know, voter fraud is like speaking of unicorns - I mean, who would possibly be so deranged as to vote without citizenship or impersonate the deceased. It never has happened and never will happen, because all humans are paragons of integrity.
 
2012-10-02 04:18:59 PM

bhcompy:

You realize how easy it is to absentee vote in CA and how easy it is to vote for someone else with it?

/honestly don't know anyone that doesn't absentee vote in CA


That's just it... VOTER ID LAWS DO NOTHING TO PREVENT FRAUDULENT ABSENTEE VOTING.

So why do it if you're concerned with voter fraud?
 
2012-10-02 04:20:29 PM

coeyagi: Leeds: PsiChick: Leeds: PsiChick: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Because if you're working a dead-end job and the DMV is only open from nine to five, you can't take time off work to renew your ID. And if you've been in that situation for a long time, you probably don't have a car or an up-to-date ID, because almost anyone will take an expired ID. This problem is multiplied exponentially if you have a child or some other responsibility.

Then it's probably a good thing that they're open 6 days a week.

// Just sayin'

Ha, you're funny.

/I don't know who runs your DMV, but there ain't a sixth day out here.
//And even if there were, see above--do you really think a weekend bus schedule, weekend babysitters (if you even have enough money for that), and DMV Saturday hours, if you don't have a six-day job, is reasonable? Because no, it's not.

If this theoretical person is unable to carve out an hour or two over the course of 8 months then it is clear that they would be unable to make it to the polls on election day anyway.

As a result, they are likely voting using an absentee ballot which does not require a photo ID anyway.

Where's the disenfranchisement?

A) Assuming they knew about it 8 months in advance. Oh, you thought the GOP was rolling through the poor neighborhoods with flyers? Ha ha, look at you.
B) Amount of time it takes to vote is usually SIGNIFICANTLY less than the time it takes to get a Photo ID. In DE, it took me 2 hours to wait in line just to have my Driver's License renewed.
C) This is your argument to deflect away from the lack of need. Anything to avoid the crux of the issue, right bro?
D) Seriously, do you enjoy rape? This is the third time I asked and the evidence is mounting that you do.


A) Point me to the person in PA who has not hear about this over the course of the past 12 months, much less the past 8 months since ID's became free. Seriously- give me the name of this supposed living being who intends to vote but has not read, listened to or watched a single news bulletin in over a year. GIVE ME HIS NAME, asshat.
B) Depends on the lines at both places. Are you unaware of the concept of a line? And are you unaware of the ratio of time between 8 months and two hours?
C) Lack of need? No one has convinced me that we shouldn't enforce the ban on illegal immigrants voting.
D) No, I'm a gentleman and I don't rape people. You need new friends if yours are all rapists.
 
2012-10-02 04:21:11 PM

Leeds: PsiChick: Leeds: PsiChick: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Because if you're working a dead-end job and the DMV is only open from nine to five, you can't take time off work to renew your ID. And if you've been in that situation for a long time, you probably don't have a car or an up-to-date ID, because almost anyone will take an expired ID. This problem is multiplied exponentially if you have a child or some other responsibility.

Then it's probably a good thing that they're open 6 days a week.

// Just sayin'

Ha, you're funny.

/I don't know who runs your DMV, but there ain't a sixth day out here.
//And even if there were, see above--do you really think a weekend bus schedule, weekend babysitters (if you even have enough money for that), and DMV Saturday hours, if you don't have a six-day job, is reasonable? Because no, it's not.

If this theoretical person is unable to carve out an hour or two over the course of 8 months then it is clear that they would be unable to make it to the polls on election day anyway.

As a result, they are likely voting using an absentee ballot which does not require a photo ID anyway.

Where's the disenfranchisement?


An hour or two? Does your state's DMV also have unicorns?
 
2012-10-02 04:21:23 PM

Nutsac_Jim: qorkfiend: kimmygibblershomework: I show my ID to buy a farking video game or even 2 liter of soda if I use a check card so what is the BFD? Kinda like the whole Arizona

Buying video games is not a right. Buying a 2-liter of soda is not a right, and I don't believe you when you say you had to show ID to do so.

Not having to pay any fee to be able to vote, unlike your examples, is a Constitutionally protected right. That's the "BFD"; laws that require you to pay in order to get a valid ID to vote are in violation of the Constitutional prohibition on poll taxes.

Since the ID's are free, how exactly would they be considered a poll tax? Please do not use the argument that it is a tax for someone to have to pay for gas to get to the ID facility. there is no right to vote from home.


The supporting documentation is not free, and time off of work for someone on an hourly wage adds up very quickly.
 
2012-10-02 04:22:14 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: firefly212: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: cptjeff: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: from all the (deceased / non-citizen) people voting

Can you show any proof of this happening? Any at all? Because Pennsylvania sure as hell looked for some, but they had to admit in court that there was absolutely no evidence of this actually happening.

In person voter fraud simply does not happen. It's a high risk crime with an incredibly low reward.

In example after example here on Fark, I have been shown by leading Fark Liberals that actual proof of a positive assertion is totally unnecessary. Can you prove it is NOT happening? go on, I dare you.

So we're going to disenfranchise millions of people based once more on ideological idiocy? Seems smart. I think what the conservatives fail to understand is how many rural whites they're gonna end up disenfranchising if this voter ID stuff gets standardized. For urban people (no, I don't just mean black people, I mean people in urban areas) . It will be easy for unions and democrats to organize bus trips to the dmv to get non-drivers IDs and get all those people ready to vote in the next four years... otoh, rural voters, people who may never have come down to the city ever, they're gonna be SOL.

ZOMFG, what century are you living in?

When native villages in the freaking Congo and aborigine tribes in the Australian outback (yes, there are still a few who prefer the old life) have cell phones and Internet access, do you actually think that there are rural people who don't have such access?

'cause 'murkins are just dumb.

them's all those hatfields and mccoys down thar in the holler.

This is what comes from getting your politics, sociology and culture from TV and Internet memes while living in your mom's basement.




Well, I live in rural PA, and there is no Public transportation. And the PennDOT center is only open 2 days a week.

It's not an internet meme, it's life, as it actually is, in rural America.
 
2012-10-02 04:22:20 PM

Degenz: rewind2846: olddinosaur: If you google "illegal immigrant voting" you will find about 8.5 million articles more or less.

There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

Obama beat McCain by 69 million to 59 million last election; this one is likely to be closer.

How many of those votes were illegal?

Now I know yous trollin. I'm in California. I have been registered to vote here since 1988, and haven't missed a single election. To vote here you have to bring nothing more than your voter booklet, the one the state mails to every registered voter every election cycle. You go to the polls, they ask you who you are and your address, then check it off on a list with everyone else in that precinct, then they have you sign your name on the same sheet. This also takes care of voter fraud because you have to know english well enough that you can understand what the old people at the polls are saying, to answer them, and to sign your name.

No illegal immigrant is going to do all that. The ones I know do their damndest to stay under the radar... why would they purposely go into a government sponsored function to expose themselves?

Class, this is a classic textbook example of a republican who thinks that the office of president should only be legitimately held by a republican, preferable a pale one. Near as I can tell, you're full of sh*t.

THIS

Turnout is usually between 55 and 60% in presidential elections. There are millions of people who are registered or otherwise legally eligible to vote but just don't give shiat buy into the theatre. It's absurd to think that some person who sneaked across the border and is avoiding contact with all government agencies and officials is so interested in voting.

It's farking laughably retarded.


small adjustment
this is for our customers' convience
 
2012-10-02 04:23:57 PM

coeyagi:

TNel, you truly are an exceptional human who has bent space-time. Your accomplishments are unmatched in the eyes of Leeds and you shall forever be known as The ID Vanquisher for your incredible efforts to subvert the system and the Troll-vision Laundry List of activities that you supposedly need an ID for which to accomplish them.


I knew I am a unique snowflake!
 
2012-10-02 04:24:58 PM

Leeds: A) Point me to the person in PA who has not hear about this over the course of the past 12 months, much less the past 8 months since ID's became free. Seriously- give me the name of this supposed living being who intends to vote but has not read, listened to or watched a single news bulletin in over a year. GIVE ME HIS NAME, asshat.


I don't know the names of any people living in Botswana. Therefore, it must not be a real country.
 
2012-10-02 04:25:22 PM

randomizetimer: What a wonderful country we live in where a judge can subvert democracy. The voter ID law was passed by a elected state legislature. And he did not overturn it, he just delayed its enforcement until next year. Sounds like someone paid the judge off.


It's almost like the founders wanted a check on their power or something...

\derptastic
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 04:25:23 PM
Jerry Bonnet, former Indiana Secretary of State. One of the few in the U.S. to be convicted of voter fraud.

Republican.
 
2012-10-02 04:26:53 PM

Leeds: coeyagi: Leeds: PsiChick: Leeds: PsiChick: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Because if you're working a dead-end job and the DMV is only open from nine to five, you can't take time off work to renew your ID. And if you've been in that situation for a long time, you probably don't have a car or an up-to-date ID, because almost anyone will take an expired ID. This problem is multiplied exponentially if you have a child or some other responsibility.

Then it's probably a good thing that they're open 6 days a week.

// Just sayin'

Ha, you're funny.

/I don't know who runs your DMV, but there ain't a sixth day out here.
//And even if there were, see above--do you really think a weekend bus schedule, weekend babysitters (if you even have enough money for that), and DMV Saturday hours, if you don't have a six-day job, is reasonable? Because no, it's not.

If this theoretical person is unable to carve out an hour or two over the course of 8 months then it is clear that they would be unable to make it to the polls on election day anyway.

As a result, they are likely voting using an absentee ballot which does not require a photo ID anyway.

Where's the disenfranchisement?

A) Assuming they knew about it 8 months in advance. Oh, you thought the GOP was rolling through the poor neighborhoods with flyers? Ha ha, look at you.
B) Amount of time it takes to vote is usually SIGNIFICANTLY less than the time it takes to get a Photo ID. In DE, it took me 2 hours to wait in line just to have my Driver's License renewed.
C) This is your argument to deflect away from the lack of need. Anything to avoid the crux of the issue, right bro?
D) Seriously, do you enjoy rape? This is the third time I asked and the evidence is mounting that you do.

A) Point me to the person in PA who has not hear ab ...


you're logged in with the wrong alt, when responding to requests for information, make sure you're logged in correctly next time.
 
2012-10-02 04:27:13 PM
It is just so exciting to realize that the next President will be the best liar and election cheater with the most obtuse dogmatic base.

Hooray Freedom and Liberty!
 
2012-10-02 04:28:51 PM

AntiNerd: Of course people without what the local official considers "valid ID" will still have to cast a provisional ballot. This will create a lot of uncertainty and confusion which the Republicans are still experts at exploiting. Look for the election to end up in court at the very least.

One thing about it that I found interesting is to see how the vote goes down among provisional ballots. That will settle once and for all just who it is that voter ID laws disenfranchise.


It's pretty obvious who voter ID laws disenfranchise: the deceased, illegal immigrants and otherwise non-citizens... and degenerates who can't be bothered to visit the DMV but, are still expected to be active participants of the electoral system.
 
2012-10-02 04:29:09 PM

Leeds: coeyagi: Leeds: PsiChick: Leeds: PsiChick: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Because if you're working a dead-end job and the DMV is only open from nine to five, you can't take time off work to renew your ID. And if you've been in that situation for a long time, you probably don't have a car or an up-to-date ID, because almost anyone will take an expired ID. This problem is multiplied exponentially if you have a child or some other responsibility.

Then it's probably a good thing that they're open 6 days a week.

// Just sayin'

Ha, you're funny.

/I don't know who runs your DMV, but there ain't a sixth day out here.
//And even if there were, see above--do you really think a weekend bus schedule, weekend babysitters (if you even have enough money for that), and DMV Saturday hours, if you don't have a six-day job, is reasonable? Because no, it's not.

If this theoretical person is unable to carve out an hour or two over the course of 8 months then it is clear that they would be unable to make it to the polls on election day anyway.

As a result, they are likely voting using an absentee ballot which does not require a photo ID anyway.

Where's the disenfranchisement?

A) Assuming they knew about it 8 months in advance. Oh, you thought the GOP was rolling through the poor neighborhoods with flyers? Ha ha, look at you.
B) Amount of time it takes to vote is usually SIGNIFICANTLY less than the time it takes to get a Photo ID. In DE, it took me 2 hours to wait in line just to have my Driver's License renewed.
C) This is your argument to deflect away from the lack of need. Anything to avoid the crux of the issue, right bro?
D) Seriously, do you enjoy rape? This is the third time I asked and the evidence is mounting that you do.

A) Point me to the person in PA who has not hear ab ...


A) My grandfather. Not going to give you his name.
B) So you're saying that a voting line starts when you register? Never thought of it that way, but then I don't take copious amounts of drugs either.
C) It convinced a judge who is obviously more intelligent and knowledgeable than you. There is NO EVIDENCE. Why enact a law for a hypothetical? Why don't we outlaw Sharia Law too? Let's outlaw Kittens from stabbing dogs. Let's outlaw Meth Addicts from attending the Olympics as Javelin competitors.
D) You don't understand the difference between passive and active verbs. This is not shocking given all that you haven't done for rhetoric and logic today.
 
2012-10-02 04:29:12 PM

snocone: It is just so exciting to realize that the next President will be the best liar and election cheater with the most obtuse dogmatic base.

Hooray Freedom and Liberty!


Sorry dude, Romney doesn't stand a chance
 
2012-10-02 04:29:16 PM

authorizeduser: AntiNerd: Of course people without what the local official considers "valid ID" will still have to cast a provisional ballot. This will create a lot of uncertainty and confusion which the Republicans are still experts at exploiting. Look for the election to end up in court at the very least.

One thing about it that I found interesting is to see how the vote goes down among provisional ballots. That will settle once and for all just who it is that voter ID laws disenfranchise.

It's pretty obvious who voter ID laws disenfranchise: the deceased, illegal immigrants and otherwise non-citizens... and degenerates who can't be bothered to visit the DMV but, are still expected to be active participants of the electoral system.


Instant ignore list.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 04:29:27 PM

snocone: It is just so exciting to realize that the next President will be the best liar and election cheater with the most obtuse dogmatic base.

Hooray Freedom and Liberty!


What bullshiat.

I'm sorry... there is only one party that is making a regular habit of open trickery to get elections because they can't win on facts, and that party starts with an R. There are no legions of dead voters anywhere but Chicago, and there have always been dead voters in Chicago on both sides.
 
2012-10-02 04:29:44 PM

TNel: I got my first job in HS at 15 no ID needed




You would have needed working papers at that age due to federal labor laws....working papers could be had through school...to go to school you needed a birth certificate or some form of ID to attend when your parents registered you.

it's like 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon but for proving you are who you say you are.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 04:30:32 PM

authorizeduser: AntiNerd: Of course people without what the local official considers "valid ID" will still have to cast a provisional ballot. This will create a lot of uncertainty and confusion which the Republicans are still experts at exploiting. Look for the election to end up in court at the very least.

One thing about it that I found interesting is to see how the vote goes down among provisional ballots. That will settle once and for all just who it is that voter ID laws disenfranchise.

It's pretty obvious who voter ID laws disenfranchise: the deceased, illegal immigrants and otherwise non-citizens... and degenerates who can't be bothered to visit the DMV but, are still expected to be active participants of the electoral system.


Like degenerates that fought for us in WWII.

Go fark yourself.
 
2012-10-02 04:31:38 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: skygod: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Actually, I deeply resent the fact that I have to show ID virtually every time I cash a check, use my debit card, or apply for a job. ALL THAT SHOULD BE TOTALLY ANONYMOUS! Voting? Meh. Actually fairly unimportant.

Hey, look at the bright side. You and your retarded buddy's will have 4 more years of those awesome birther email forwards.

???? Do you have, you know, an actual POINT, or are you just babbling to hear yourself?


Well, actually, you know, yes. But it seems to have gone completely over your head. Color me shocked.
 
2012-10-02 04:33:17 PM

X-boxershorts: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: firefly212: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: cptjeff: Just Another OC Homeless Guy:

Well, I live in rural PA, and there is no Public transportation. And the PennDOT center is only open 2 days a week.

It's not an internet meme, it's life, as it actually is, in rural America.



You knock it off with your high fallutin facts... conservatives know that all real americans live in cities, drive trucks, and can easily make it to a DMV, which are totally located conveniently everywhere, and even if you're too poor to drive, or you're disabled, there's absolutely bus service everywhere through all the mountains that runs on a regular basis, even on weekends. Also, the DMV only takes 2 hours to get through, roads are paved with bubble gum, and Jesus is an NRA member.

The law works perfectly and is easy to comply with in the world they imagine, it's just a damn shame that's not the world we live in.

Also, anyone who suggests that they know it will disenfranchise voters disproportionately and affect voting outcomes is a dirty whore liar, even if it's the guy who wrote the farking bill.
 
2012-10-02 04:33:23 PM

coeyagi: Leeds: coeyagi: Leeds: PsiChick: Leeds: PsiChick: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Because if you're working a dead-end job and the DMV is only open from nine to five, you can't take time off work to renew your ID. And if you've been in that situation for a long time, you probably don't have a car or an up-to-date ID, because almost anyone will take an expired ID. This problem is multiplied exponentially if you have a child or some other responsibility.

Then it's probably a good thing that they're open 6 days a week.

// Just sayin'

Ha, you're funny.

/I don't know who runs your DMV, but there ain't a sixth day out here.
//And even if there were, see above--do you really think a weekend bus schedule, weekend babysitters (if you even have enough money for that), and DMV Saturday hours, if you don't have a six-day job, is reasonable? Because no, it's not.

If this theoretical person is unable to carve out an hour or two over the course of 8 months then it is clear that they would be unable to make it to the polls on election day anyway.

As a result, they are likely voting using an absentee ballot which does not require a photo ID anyway.

Where's the disenfranchisement?

A) Assuming they knew about it 8 months in advance. Oh, you thought the GOP was rolling through the poor neighborhoods with flyers? Ha ha, look at you.
B) Amount of time it takes to vote is usually SIGNIFICANTLY less than the time it takes to get a Photo ID. In DE, it took me 2 hours to wait in line just to have my Driver's License renewed.
C) This is your argument to deflect away from the lack of need. Anything to avoid the crux of the issue, right bro?
D) Seriously, do you enjoy rape? This is the third time I asked and the evidence is mounting that you do.

A) Point me to the person in PA who has not ...


You tried and failed to present a meaningful argument. The only claim you make that seems legitimate is that your grandfather is some sort of retard. I am sorry to say that you seem to have inherited that trait. Let's hope you also get lost on the way to the polling station, we don't need any more write-ins for SuperMan or your favorite potato...

Do us all a favor and log out now you pathetic little troll. Leave fark for the grownups.
 
2012-10-02 04:35:22 PM

BradleyUffner: I had a job at a school district starting in 1998 that I never showed ID for. I lost my wallet when I first started and couldn't give them a copy of my license or SS card when they asked for it. When I explained they asked me to give it to them they said it could wait until I got the cards replaced. I forgot about it and so did they. It was only discovered when I gave my 2 weeks notice a few years later before starting a new job.


So how could they do a background check on you to make sure you werent a pedophile?

Maybe you should give us that info just so we can check ourselves......
 
2012-10-02 04:35:56 PM

Leeds: coeyagi: Leeds: coeyagi: Leeds: PsiChick: Leeds: PsiChick: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Because if you're working a dead-end job and the DMV is only open from nine to five, you can't take time off work to renew your ID. And if you've been in that situation for a long time, you probably don't have a car or an up-to-date ID, because almost anyone will take an expired ID. This problem is multiplied exponentially if you have a child or some other responsibility.

Then it's probably a good thing that they're open 6 days a week.

// Just sayin'

Ha, you're funny.

/I don't know who runs your DMV, but there ain't a sixth day out here.
//And even if there were, see above--do you really think a weekend bus schedule, weekend babysitters (if you even have enough money for that), and DMV Saturday hours, if you don't have a six-day job, is reasonable? Because no, it's not.

If this theoretical person is unable to carve out an hour or two over the course of 8 months then it is clear that they would be unable to make it to the polls on election day anyway.

As a result, they are likely voting using an absentee ballot which does not require a photo ID anyway.

Where's the disenfranchisement?

A) Assuming they knew about it 8 months in advance. Oh, you thought the GOP was rolling through the poor neighborhoods with flyers? Ha ha, look at you.
B) Amount of time it takes to vote is usually SIGNIFICANTLY less than the time it takes to get a Photo ID. In DE, it took me 2 hours to wait in line just to have my Driver's License renewed.
C) This is your argument to deflect away from the lack of need. Anything to avoid the crux of the issue, right bro?
D) Seriously, do you enjoy rape? This is the third time I asked and the evidence is mounting that you do.

A) Point me to the person in PA who ...


OK, I take that as I win. You end up calling my grandfather a retard. He doesn't watch news and is bed-ridden much of the time. He also fought in WWII, dickhead.

I prove you wrong and you go ballistic. Try again, you f*cking mongoloid.
 
2012-10-02 04:38:30 PM

jvowles: winsecure: I can accept the argument at face value stating that requiring someone obtain a photo ID is to great of an encumbrance on the poor for a constitutionally guaranteed right. That this presents to great of a challenge for the poor to overcome.

However, that argument quickly falls down in comparison to how other constitutionally guaranteed rights are treated. The right to bear arms is supposedly guaranteed via Amendment 2. However, it is apparently not too great of an encumbrance to requires $431.50 in application and fingerprinting fees in New York.

So a few dollars investment for obtaining a photo ID is too great of a financial burden for one constitutionally protected right, while on the other hand it is perfectly reasonable to have people fork over hundreds of dollars for another?

"Constitutionally protected rights" should either be able to incur an encumbrance to exercise, or they shouldn't. But too many people think double standards are perfectly acceptable.

/pick one or the other

In order to restrict rights explicitly spelled out in the constitution, you must demonstrate a compelling state interest AND the prove that it cannot be reasonably accomplished through other means.

The state has a compelling interest (public safey) in keeping firearms out of the hands of convicted criminals, and those who are mentally incompetent and/or insane. THis is sustained by the number of such purchases that are currently blocked by ID checks and the number of times when guns are used by repeat offenders, etc.

In this case, the law fails BOTH tests. You cannot demonstrate a compelling need (lack of examples of in-person voter fraud), and you cannot demonstrate that this law will prevent anything but the saddest, most inept attempts to misrepresent yourself at the polls. You cannot demonstrate a lack of viable alternatives, because there are plenty of alternatives that do NOT needlessly restrict otherwise valid voters from having their say, but you CAN point ...


I mean SCOTUS has already said Voter ID laws are A-OK if you allow provisional ballots and provide free state IDs, so this law might fail those prongs but it is allowable.
 
2012-10-02 04:41:13 PM
here is an idea.
Let ANYONE entrance into the country but stipulate that their fingerprints be taken.
On election day, a person gets fingered printed again before they cast their vote. (separate card)
Cards are ran through a machine.
If a match is made...no vote
if no match, vote
cards destroyed immediately after

can also be used for felons
 
2012-10-02 04:43:39 PM

rewind2846: bhcompy:

You realize how easy it is to absentee vote in CA and how easy it is to vote for someone else with it?

/honestly don't know anyone that doesn't absentee vote in CA

That's just it... VOTER ID LAWS DO NOTHING TO PREVENT FRAUDULENT ABSENTEE VOTING.

So why do it if you're concerned with voter fraud?


Conversely, there is a valid way to vote without an ID, so why complain about increased security in the place where you can do it? Same works for credit transactions over the web vs in person, where the merchant agreements usually state that you need to ask to see ID(whether or not they actually do it).
 
2012-10-02 04:44:35 PM

coeyagi: He doesn't watch news and is bed-ridden much of the time.


Your grandfather is bedridden and you said that you don't allow him a tv, a radio or newspapers? You are nothing short of a monster.

I'd slap you in the face if I ever came across you on the street. You should be locked up you evil, evil biatch.
 
2012-10-02 04:49:48 PM
bmadore.squarespace.com
bmadore.squarespace.com
 
2012-10-02 05:00:47 PM

authorizeduser: kronicfeld: No, sorry, you can't throw up eleventh-hour barriers to vote and claim that they won't have a substantial impact.

It's designed to have a substantial impact on voter fraud. I know, I know, voter fraud is like speaking of unicorns - I mean, who would possibly be so deranged as to vote without citizenship or impersonate the deceased. It never has happened and never will happen, because all humans are paragons of integrity.


Well, it never happened in PA, according to the people supporting this law.

To the best of my searching, there have been four cases in the past 12 years where someone in PA tried to vote twice. That's certainly threatening...
 
2012-10-02 05:03:56 PM

X-boxershorts: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: firefly212: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: cptjeff: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: from all the (deceased / non-citizen) people voting

Can you show any proof of this happening? Any at all? Because Pennsylvania sure as hell looked for some, but they had to admit in court that there was absolutely no evidence of this actually happening.

In person voter fraud simply does not happen. It's a high risk crime with an incredibly low reward.

In example after example here on Fark, I have been shown by leading Fark Liberals that actual proof of a positive assertion is totally unnecessary. Can you prove it is NOT happening? go on, I dare you.

So we're going to disenfranchise millions of people based once more on ideological idiocy? Seems smart. I think what the conservatives fail to understand is how many rural whites they're gonna end up disenfranchising if this voter ID stuff gets standardized. For urban people (no, I don't just mean black people, I mean people in urban areas) . It will be easy for unions and democrats to organize bus trips to the dmv to get non-drivers IDs and get all those people ready to vote in the next four years... otoh, rural voters, people who may never have come down to the city ever, they're gonna be SOL.

ZOMFG, what century are you living in?

When native villages in the freaking Congo and aborigine tribes in the Australian outback (yes, there are still a few who prefer the old life) have cell phones and Internet access, do you actually think that there are rural people who don't have such access?

'cause 'murkins are just dumb.

them's all those hatfields and mccoys down thar in the holler.

This is what comes from getting your politics, sociology and culture from TV and Internet memes while living in your mom's basement.



Well, I live in rural PA, and there is no Public transportation. And the PennDOT center is only open 2 days a week.

It's not an internet meme, it's life, as it actually is, in rural America.


Generalize much?

As I said: This is what comes from getting your politics, sociology and culture from TV and Internet memes while living in your mom's basement.
 
2012-10-02 05:04:58 PM

Biological Ali: Leeds: A) Point me to the person in PA who has not hear about this over the course of the past 12 months, much less the past 8 months since ID's became free. Seriously- give me the name of this supposed living being who intends to vote but has not read, listened to or watched a single news bulletin in over a year. GIVE ME HIS NAME, asshat.

I don't know the names of any people living in Botswana. Therefore, it must not be a real country.


Can Leeds (or anyone else) give the name of anyone in PA who has even been charged let alone been convicted of voter impersonation that would require disenfranchising even for a short period of time, what even the Commonwealth has admitted is in the hundreds of thousands previously eligible and lawful voters? For the cost to PA of this whole fiasco they could buy a lot of purple ink and even thumbprint spots to put in the voter registration books to go right next to the signature line. But for some reason I don't think that this is what the GOP wants. They want to make it hard for some people to vote.

I also think this has created a situation where the overreach will come back to haunt those who tried as many in PA and for that matter Ohio who may have been the target of the disfranchisement are now more motivated to vote.
 
2012-10-02 05:05:44 PM
1) There is very little voter fraud in America. Less than 1 case per state per year. Voter ID is not meant to fix voter fraud, because voter fraud is not a problem to begin. Voter ID is very expensive solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

2) There are lots of people that have voted for years, that will be disenfranchised by many of the Voter ID laws. Many folks don't have copies of their birth certificates or other papers and don't have the money, time, or capability of getting the required documentation to vote. The people that will be affected will most likely be Democrat voters, because the very poor, those without vehicles, those without bank accounts, the disabled, are all groups that tend to favor Democrats.

3) Eliminating absentee balloting would be the best way to prevent people from committing voter fraud, but Republicans won't even think about making absentee balloting more difficult. Why is that? Because that group of voters tends to vote GOP. You can do absentee balloting for everyone in your house without their consent. You can even say you live in Florida, register over the Internet, have them mail your ballot to your home state of Michigan, and vote there if you want. There's nothing in Voter ID laws that prevent this most common and simple form of voter fraud.

/Everyone, including the people that write the bills, knows and admit that voter fraud isn't a problem in America and that Voter ID will disenfranchise eligible voters that that tend to vote for Democrats.

//That's the point.
 
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