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(Google) NewsFlash Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people still allowed to vote in PA   (google.com) divider line 995
    More: NewsFlash, voter ID, dead people, League of Women Voters, provisional ballots, illegal immigrants, Pennsylvania Republicans, swing states, Tom Corbett  
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13298 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 11:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-10-02 03:25:18 PM

Leeds: nytmare: This is how republicans actually rationalize it. Even though individual voter fraud is probably rare, and there are already procedures in place to ensure one vote per registered person making official ID cards unnecessary.

Because you are physically incapable of signing a name that's not your own, amirite?

And there is some sort of force field that bars you from entering 2 polling stations in the same day, right?


Yes, there is obviously a conspiracy that means thousands if not millions of liberals would do this. Yawn. There is no motive for one person doing this a few times. You can barely get the average person to vote once. And due to this lack of motive, we have lack of evidence of the problem that doesn't exist, therefore we have no need.

You really should get a morning-after pill for the number of times you've been raped today.

//or just use your uterus magic to reject the fetus
 
2012-10-02 03:26:20 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Alternatively, if you do not want to drive a whole day to get to town, try using a stamp and an absentee ballot.


And yet, with the existence of this giant security hole, you really think somebody meaning to stuff the ballot box will march people into a polling place?
 
2012-10-02 03:26:27 PM

Leeds: In this thread some people (still) have been saying that ID's cost money. They do not. I have posted links multiple times, but people seem unwilling to read them.


And other people have consistently overlooked the basic legal concept that new law should be based on significant reason, not speculation. Yet this law is based on the latter; when asked to offer evidence, the proponents of the law could not do so. That doesn't mean they get to implement the law so that they might be able to collect the data they need to make the law relevant and necessary.

I mean, if this is such a huge problem, then isn't it sensible to believe they should have been able to come up with some evidence? But they couldn't, not that was admissible in court.

Leeds: Then people started saying that there are tons of people who don't drive. I was born in PA and I know of only one person of voting age who doesn't have (or didn't ever have) a drivers license. Her name is Jenn and she's afraid of cars.


Which is obviously a significant-enough statistical sample to make the statement that outside of New York City, 99.9% of all people drive.
 
2012-10-02 03:26:37 PM

ChuDogg: I'll be perfectly honest I don't think dumb and poor people should vote, I would have much more stringent conditions on voting including IQ tests, historical knowledge of US Constitutional and Common law doctrine and its development, civics, and quite possibly service in the military, Peace corps, or extensive volunteer work through College. Voting should be seen as something to be prepared for very early in the year. Like studying for the SAT, LSATS, etc. But yeah, this is a start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio


You will have to amend the constitution first, because, almost all those questions have already been decided in court.

Sorry dude.
 
2012-10-02 03:27:14 PM

ChuDogg: I'll be perfectly honest I don't think dumb and poor people should vote, I would have much more stringent conditions on voting including IQ tests, historical knowledge of US Constitutional and Common law doctrine and its development, civics, and quite possibly service in the military, Peace corps, or extensive volunteer work through College. Voting should be seen as something to be prepared for very early in the year. Like studying for the SAT, LSATS, etc. But yeah, this is a start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio


SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP!

WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?
 
2012-10-02 03:27:37 PM

TNel: spmkk:
TNel: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

I got my first job in HS at 15 no ID needed...


I call bullshiat. I got my first job at 13. Legal, all above board...had to get permission from my school and a sign-off from both parents, IIRC. I had to produce my original Social Security card...while that in itself is not a photo ID, it *IS* sufficient in any state to get a photo ID issued to you. (Note that in Pennsylvania, getting this photo ID is explicitly free and doesn't even require a Social Security card, merely a number.) In other words, if you have what it legally takes to get a job -- even at 15 -- then you have what it takes to obtain a photo ID.

When people say ID they mean picture ID dumbass, I did't get my drivers license till I was 19, so to me I had no ID other than SSN and Birth till I was 19. Yes I could have gotten one but I didn't need one so why should I spend the time and effort to get something that I would not need.


Because the free ID would allow you to vote.
 
2012-10-02 03:28:47 PM

Alassra: I think that most people, regardless of party, agree that (in theory) Voter ID is a good thing.


I think if someone shows up at a the right polling station and says their name and where they live, that better be good enough for you to hand them a ballot and scratch their name of a list or you need to explain why it isn't.
 
2012-10-02 03:30:17 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-02 03:30:21 PM

Leeds:

So if the law had not been postponed/struck down, your two mentally challenged family members are eligible for free ID's and your late grandmother is shiate out of luck.

That's kind of as it should be, right? (Unless you believe that the mentally ill should not be voting, but that's another thread)


The mentally ill have every right to vote, as do the elderly. The issue isn't the cost, it's the barriers being set up to disenfranchise folks who do not have ID's. The Id's may be free but it has been cited in many places such as here:

http://articles.philly.com/2012-08-04/news/33036159_1_voter-id-law-pe n ndot-centers-kurt-myers

That it is unreasonably difficult to get one of these "free" Id's. It takes hours of time and is only offered at select DMV's that may be far away from the person who needs it. That's on top of the fact that this is a constitutional right, it is not something that can be abridged because in your fevered imagination the evil hun is stuffing the ballot box.
 
2012-10-02 03:30:34 PM

xaratherus: Leeds: In this thread some people (still) have been saying that ID's cost money. They do not. I have posted links multiple times, but people seem unwilling to read them.

And other people have consistently overlooked the basic legal concept that new law should be based on significant reason, not speculation. Yet this law is based on the latter; when asked to offer evidence, the proponents of the law could not do so. That doesn't mean they get to implement the law so that they might be able to collect the data they need to make the law relevant and necessary.

I mean, if this is such a huge problem, then isn't it sensible to believe they should have been able to come up with some evidence? But they couldn't, not that was admissible in court.

Leeds: Then people started saying that there are tons of people who don't drive. I was born in PA and I know of only one person of voting age who doesn't have (or didn't ever have) a drivers license. Her name is Jenn and she's afraid of cars.

Which is obviously a significant-enough statistical sample to make the statement that outside of New York City, 99.9% of all people drive.


I can only assume Leeds is a dirty slut / whore of the Limbaugh-variety. He generally seems to enjoy getting his logic raped twelve ways to Tuesday.
 
2012-10-02 03:31:45 PM

coeyagi: xaratherus: Leeds: In this thread some people (still) have been saying that ID's cost money. They do not. I have posted links multiple times, but people seem unwilling to read them.

And other people have consistently overlooked the basic legal concept that new law should be based on significant reason, not speculation. Yet this law is based on the latter; when asked to offer evidence, the proponents of the law could not do so. That doesn't mean they get to implement the law so that they might be able to collect the data they need to make the law relevant and necessary.

I mean, if this is such a huge problem, then isn't it sensible to believe they should have been able to come up with some evidence? But they couldn't, not that was admissible in court.

Leeds: Then people started saying that there are tons of people who don't drive. I was born in PA and I know of only one person of voting age who doesn't have (or didn't ever have) a drivers license. Her name is Jenn and she's afraid of cars.

Which is obviously a significant-enough statistical sample to make the statement that outside of New York City, 99.9% of all people drive.

I can only assume Leeds is a dirty slut / whore of the Limbaugh-variety. He generally seems to enjoy getting his logic raped twelve ways to Tuesday.


Not at all. If it was legitimate logic rape, I understand that Leeds' body has a way to shut that down.
 
2012-10-02 03:31:46 PM

Leeds: PsiChick: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Because if you're working a dead-end job and the DMV is only open from nine to five, you can't take time off work to renew your ID. And if you've been in that situation for a long time, you probably don't have a car or an up-to-date ID, because almost anyone will take an expired ID. This problem is multiplied exponentially if you have a child or some other responsibility.

Then it's probably a good thing that they're open 6 days a week.

// Just sayin'


Ha, you're funny.

/I don't know who runs your DMV, but there ain't a sixth day out here.
//And even if there were, see above--do you really think a weekend bus schedule, weekend babysitters (if you even have enough money for that), and DMV Saturday hours, if you don't have a six-day job, is reasonable? Because no, it's not.
 
2012-10-02 03:33:25 PM

Leeds: Alassra: Leeds: Alassra: Why don't you and your 99.9% of suspended driver friends come to PA and see the 48 rural counties with DMZ apps and photo ID machines and help them out? Be part of a solution instead of compounding the problem...


As both a PA resident and subby I have to say- Suck it, fatty. Suck it long and suck it hard.

===============

As a PA resident and valid ID carrying voter who has been voting since I was 18, I refuse to stoop to insults and name-calling to seem important.

You're quick to call names and insult, yet you seem to lack a lot of knowledge / facts / rational thought to back up that trash talk. Again, I asked YOU to do your part to help and you call names - I'm a PA resident and have been helping get the word out and ensuring folks get ID. Why don't you try that instead of name calling? That would probably take more effort on your part that you're willing to invest - sitting online and name calling seems easier, no?

Ok, I'll pretend that you weren't trolling above and I'll engage you in normal discourse.

In this thread some people (still) have been saying that ID's cost money. They do not. I have posted links multiple times, but people seem unwilling to read them.

Then people started saying that there are tons of people who don't drive. I was born in PA and I know of only one person of voting age who doesn't have (or didn't ever have) a drivers license. Her name is Jenn and she's afraid of cars.

You have just pointed out that you've been involved in getting the word out about this change. I commend you for trying to help, but I wonder if you feel you've made a difference in any way. In the 7 months since ID's became free and in the 6 or so months that this has been on the news every night, how many people have you reached out to who were unaware of this change coming down the pike? And if they don't follow politics/news and they have no idea about how or where or when to vote, would they have voted anyway? I don't ask tha ...


===========================
I am shocked you don't know more folks who don't drive having lived in PA all your life - but, not sure where in the State you live. I volunteer for Girl Scouts and our Council covers 27 of the States' counties. I know a lot of girls who have parents / grandparents that either (a) don't drive or (b) don't have access to a vehicle all the time (e.g. they share with another person). My MIL (now deceased) and many of her neighbors did not drive - they live(d) in a suburb of Pittsburgh.

I guess that our experiences with this have been different. To be fair, many of them did (or do I guess since some are still living) have ID that lived in suburban Pittsburgh.

I agree, many counties have been working with PennDOT to get the word out about the FOC ID that's currently available - I think the sticking point for some posters (more than likely, not from PA) is that on the PennDOT website (that I've visited several times today in fact) clearly still shows the OTHER Photo ID that is $13.50 - I think that is probably leading to confusion (and rightfully so).

In my efforts to get the word out, I haven't had that many folks say to be outright "Alassra, I have no ID"; however, I have had friends / fam tell me that they have a friend or grandparent who does not. How many actual IDs have been obtained since these programs started? I'm not sure PennDOT has provided (that I could find) concrete numbers that are X or Y that we can see if it's made an impact. Thankfully, when you get a voter's card they tell you where the Polling places are - the newspapers (online and hard copies) also publish the polling places - and worst case - you can call the County Elections Office to find out where to vote.

I still am concerned about cases where folks can't get to a DMV. I think that since the Commonwealth now has a year to get on board, we can just put the effort there instead of getting wrapped up in a letter before someone's name and ensure we're all legal.
 
2012-10-02 03:35:06 PM

Leeds: IlGreven: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Er, um, it costs money they don't have?

Yep, that's the democrat's argument. The free ID's will cost the poor more money than they have.


You mean the "free ID" that requires a check or money order to obtain?
 
2012-10-02 03:37:22 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Voting is therefore a privilege and NOT a right, as it does not apply, for example, to felons and ex-felons. Just this one example shoots down most of your points.


Not having to pay for the privilege of voting is a right.
 
2012-10-02 03:37:37 PM

IlGreven: Leeds: IlGreven: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Er, um, it costs money they don't have?

Yep, that's the democrat's argument. The free ID's will cost the poor more money than they have.

You mean the "free ID" that requires a check or money order to obtain?


$13.50 according to that website. Leeds must be in the 1% where $13.50 is nearly indistinguishable from 0.
 
2012-10-02 03:37:42 PM

Alassra: I still am concerned about cases where folks can't get to a DMV. I think that since the Commonwealth now has a year to get on board, we can just put the effort there instead of getting wrapped up in a letter before someone's name and ensure we're all legal.


Perhaps PennDOT could fund a series of mobile units to get people registered and issue IDs?
 
2012-10-02 03:38:25 PM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


THIS. I have no problem showing who I am in order to somehow help the electoral college choose who runs the country. The only ones biatching are folks without ID and folks that still frequent moveon.org which has no purpose now that W is gone. After reading many ignorant comments on both sides of the fence, I am still writing myself in this year lol.
I show my ID to buy a farking video game or even 2 liter of soda if I use a check card so what is the BFD? Kinda like the whole Arizona immigration/proof of residency stuff. Folks need to travel a little more or at least debate politics with folks from other countries. They give that simple view that is sometimes hard to get when you are in the middle of it.
 
2012-10-02 03:38:48 PM
Damn this thread is good for outing paid shills to the ignore list. Possibly the best thread in a year for it.
 
2012-10-02 03:39:00 PM

coeyagi: IlGreven: Leeds: IlGreven: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Er, um, it costs money they don't have?

Yep, that's the democrat's argument. The free ID's will cost the poor more money than they have.

You mean the "free ID" that requires a check or money order to obtain?

$13.50 according to that website. Leeds must be in the 1% where $13.50 is nearly indistinguishable from 0.


Would anyone care to hazard a guess as to the dollar amount of the last poll tax (Mississippi) that was struck down?
 
2012-10-02 03:39:11 PM

mr lawson: you have pee hands: Voting day should be a national holiday to increase turnout. We can give up one of the ones for some guy who died centuries ago like Columbus or Jesus.

agreed


MLK
 
2012-10-02 03:39:38 PM

coeyagi: IlGreven: Leeds: IlGreven: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Er, um, it costs money they don't have?

Yep, that's the democrat's argument. The free ID's will cost the poor more money than they have.

You mean the "free ID" that requires a check or money order to obtain?

$13.50 according to that website. Leeds must be in the 1% where $13.50 is nearly indistinguishable from 0.


And they don't take cash, meaning we add the cost to get checks (and the checking accounts tied to them) and/or money orders.
 
2012-10-02 03:39:52 PM

xaratherus: Alassra: I still am concerned about cases where folks can't get to a DMV. I think that since the Commonwealth now has a year to get on board, we can just put the effort there instead of getting wrapped up in a letter before someone's name and ensure we're all legal.

Perhaps PennDOT could fund a series of mobile units to get people registered and issue IDs?


Perhaps,.but PennDOT has worked on the same stretch of US Rt. 1 for the past 20 years, so I wouldn't take much stock in their ability to do anything more than bolster the Columbian coffee market.
 
2012-10-02 03:40:13 PM

xaratherus: Alassra: I still am concerned about cases where folks can't get to a DMV. I think that since the Commonwealth now has a year to get on board, we can just put the effort there instead of getting wrapped up in a letter before someone's name and ensure we're all legal.

Perhaps PennDOT could fund a series of mobile units to get people registered and issue IDs?


How many millions in taxpayer funds should PA invest in solving a problem that doesn't exist?

They've already spent several million in court and in making changes at PennDOT.
 
2012-10-02 03:40:49 PM

X-boxershorts: You will have to amend the constitution first,


The Constitution has been amended as follows:

15th - cannot be denied by reason of race.
19th - cannot be denied by reason of sex.
24th - cannot be denied by failure to pay a poll tax. 
26th - cannot be denied by age.

There is also the Voting Rights Act which was used to stop literacy tests, though that can simply be repealed by subsequent legislation.
 
2012-10-02 03:41:10 PM

kimmygibblershomework: I show my ID to buy a farking video game or even 2 liter of soda if I use a check card so what is the BFD? Kinda like the whole Arizona


Buying video games is not a right. Buying a 2-liter of soda is not a right, and I don't believe you when you say you had to show ID to do so.

Not having to pay any fee to be able to vote, unlike your examples, is a Constitutionally protected right. That's the "BFD"; laws that require you to pay in order to get a valid ID to vote are in violation of the Constitutional prohibition on poll taxes.
 
2012-10-02 03:41:31 PM

SpiderQueenDemon: About half the people in my grandmother's building (an independent-living place for seniors in Pennsylvania,) didn't have an up-to-date photo ID last month. Most had driver's licenses that had expired after they quit driving, some older ladies never learned to drive at all (up until lately public transit was more than adequate, and a lot of the widows had husbands who drove, which was enough in their day,) and some, mainly from rural areas, had never had one. It just worked out that way.

The DMV is not on any of the bus lines and is nearly forty minutes away by car. They have a shuttle service that takes them to doctors' appointments, but with a five-story building of senior citizens, you pretty much have to book that two weeks in advance. The little town has exactly three taxicabs, one of which has been down because the driver just had a baby, and a lot of the residents don't have family locally to get them out there. Things did not look good, and after Republican politicians admitted it was going to help Romney, a number of my Grandma's friends found themselves contemplating a party change.

Luckily, my grandmother is one of those ladies who's good at organizing things and still fairly well-known in the community. She had my little brother drive her to our old high school and asked if any of the students would be interested in a community-service project. (They need 200 community-service hours to graduate and you need 50 hours of supervised driving with a permit to get a license in PA.) She persuaded the Civics teacher to offer class credit, convinced the principal to excuse participants from classes and set up a schedule whereby students could be excused for part of a school day to drive seniors to get their IDs. I live too far away now to come and help, so I sent Grandma a check to help with the gas money and my brother traded shifts at work so he could drive Grandma's friends as well -partly because he's a loyal grandson, but mainly because the ladies at the b ...


CSB!
 
2012-10-02 03:41:50 PM

Leeds: TNel: spmkk:
TNel: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

I got my first job in HS at 15 no ID needed...


I call bullshiat. I got my first job at 13. Legal, all above board...had to get permission from my school and a sign-off from both parents, IIRC. I had to produce my original Social Security card...while that in itself is not a photo ID, it *IS* sufficient in any state to get a photo ID issued to you. (Note that in Pennsylvania, getting this photo ID is explicitly free and doesn't even require a Social Security card, merely a number.) In other words, if you have what it legally takes to get a job -- even at 15 -- then you have what it takes to obtain a photo ID.

When people say ID they mean picture ID dumbass, I did't get my drivers license till I was 19, so to me I had no ID other than SSN and Birth till I was 19. Yes I could have gotten one but I didn't need one so why should I spend the time and effort to get something that I would not need.

Because the free ID would allow you to vote.


But I didn't need it for everything you guys have posted about, a job, a place to cash my check hell I was on my parents account I could have setup direct deposit without a photo ID and worked my entire life without a photo ID but you guys keep telling me it's not possible.
 
2012-10-02 03:42:39 PM

rewind2846: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Not this sh*t again. Okay, I'm bored... time for a troll smackdown!

Driving Driving is a privilege, not a right. A state can revoke your driving privileges within its borders anytime it chooses.

Purchasing a firearm Purchasing a firearm is also a privileges given by states. This is why every state has different rules and laws under which you can legally buy guns. The second amendment only guarantees your right to own a gun, not to buy a gun.

Carrying a firearm Carrying a firearm is a privilege granted by the states, which is why each one has their own rules and laws pertaining to the circumstances of that act. They can revoke that privilege any time they wish. And carrying a firearm is not a right. The second amendment only protects your right to own one.

Cashing a check People don't "cash checks" any more, they just deposit them into the ATM or snap a picture of them with their smartphone. Where are you writing this sh*t from, 1982? Cashing a check was never a right.

Opening a bank account Not always. I opened an account at my credit union 20 years ago, without state issued identification. I had my military ID instead. Opening a bank account is not a right either.

Using a debit or credit card For what? I use my credit and debit cards all the time. Swipe and sign. No ID required. Again, you're 30 years too late. And using a credit or debit card is not a right.

Opening a line of credit Wrong again. Credit union, applied for and got a car loan, no ID. Opening a line of credit is also not a right.

Boarding a commercial flight Wrong yet again. The only time you need to produce identification is when you pick up your ticket. And, boarding a commercial flight is not a right.

Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus) The college ID id not for Identification (I have two of them), but to obtain services from the col ...


I would love it if someone took this judges name and voted in his place. I wonder how
 
2012-10-02 03:43:19 PM

kimmygibblershomework: he only ones biatching are folks without ID and folks that still frequent moveon.org which has no purpose now that W is gone.


I have a state-issued driver's license and was never a frequent visitor of moveon.org.

I do not support a law that will disenfranchise citizens because of speculation of a crime for which the proponents of the law cannot show any tangible evidence.

Having read over Pennsylvania's law, the only problem that I have with it the court has resolved - i.e., that it was motivated (by admission of the Speaker of the House) at least in part by political manipulation - by not allowing the law to come into enforcement until after this election year.
 
2012-10-02 03:44:41 PM

TNel: Leeds: TNel: spmkk:
TNel: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

I got my first job in HS at 15 no ID needed...


I call bullshiat. I got my first job at 13. Legal, all above board...had to get permission from my school and a sign-off from both parents, IIRC. I had to produce my original Social Security card...while that in itself is not a photo ID, it *IS* sufficient in any state to get a photo ID issued to you. (Note that in Pennsylvania, getting this photo ID is explicitly free and doesn't even require a Social Security card, merely a number.) In other words, if you have what it legally takes to get a job -- even at 15 -- then you have what it takes to obtain a photo ID.

When people say ID they mean picture ID dumbass, I did't get my drivers license till I was 19, so to me I had no ID other than SSN and Birth till I was 19. Yes I could have gotten one but I didn't need one so why should I spend the time and effort to get something that I would not need.

Because the free ID would allow you to vote.

But I didn't need it for everything you guys have posted about, a job, a place to cash my check hell I was on my parents account I could have setup direct deposit without a photo ID and worked my entire life without a photo ID but you guys keep telling me it's not possible.


TNel, you truly are an exceptional human who has bent space-time. Your accomplishments are unmatched in the eyes of Leeds and you shall forever be known as The ID Vanquisher for your incredible efforts to subvert the system and the Troll-vision Laundry List of activities that you supposedly need an ID for which to accomplish them.
 
2012-10-02 03:47:34 PM

X-boxershorts: xaratherus: Alassra: I still am concerned about cases where folks can't get to a DMV. I think that since the Commonwealth now has a year to get on board, we can just put the effort there instead of getting wrapped up in a letter before someone's name and ensure we're all legal.

Perhaps PennDOT could fund a series of mobile units to get people registered and issue IDs?

How many millions in taxpayer funds should PA invest in solving a problem that doesn't exist?

They've already spent several million in court and in making changes at PennDOT.


I was mostly just being diplomatic, heh.
 
2012-10-02 03:47:56 PM

mr lawson: Lionel Mandrake: The argument is that it amounts to a poll tax, results in keeping eligible voters from voting, and addresses a non-existent "problem"

The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?


Do you believe DR. DOOM should be able to vote? Of course you don't. I'm sure you'll support my proposal, then, which would require all voters to obtain a piece of documentation that proves they are not Dr. Doom, issued from an office located inside a dormant volcano, whose hours of opening vary daily based on the Fibonacci Sequence.
 
2012-10-02 03:49:21 PM
Did anyone call the police? Because the amount of rape that occurred in this thread really needs to be reported.
 
2012-10-02 03:49:36 PM

Spudsy1: I would love it if someone took this judges name and voted in his place. I wonder how


You should try Spuds O'Keefe, maybe a Republican will actually have evidence of fraud for once.
 
2012-10-02 03:51:12 PM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud. God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


Republicans don't give one shiat about "people proving who they are in order to vote".

If they did, they would eliminate advance voting and voting by mail, which has thousands of times the potential for fraud. I can register friends of mine in every Florida county over the Internet and even have them send my advance voting materials back to my home state in Missouri or wherever I want. People with multiple family members at the same address can easily fill out advance voting forms for everyone in their family and nobody would be any the wiser.

Why don't Republicans fight to get rid of advance voting to prevent all the fraud inherent with that system?

It's very simple, it's because advance voters are more likely to vote Republican than people that show up at the polls.

Voter ID laws are only about disenfranchising the kind of people that are likely to vote for Democrats, namely the very poor, the disabled, and the very aged. For many of these people it's a major task to get someone to take them 20 or 30 miles to the courthouse or license bureau and to come up with documents like birth certificates, which may have been lost 50 years ago. Both IDs and birth certificates cost money, and the entire process takes a lot of time, which many poor people with families just don't readily have.

There's no evidence that voter fraud exists in any state in any meaningful numbers and there's even less evidence that Voter ID laws will do anything to prevent people from illegally voting, since most of that is done through advance ballots in the mail.

/Pure hypocrisy. Glad the courts have the sense to recognize it.
 
2012-10-02 03:52:27 PM

justtray: Did anyone call the police? Because the amount of rape that occurred in this thread really needs to be reported.


scrapetv.com

I would bet money that this guy was disenfranchised. At least twice.
 
2012-10-02 03:52:52 PM

xaratherus: X-boxershorts: xaratherus: Alassra: I still am concerned about cases where folks can't get to a DMV. I think that since the Commonwealth now has a year to get on board, we can just put the effort there instead of getting wrapped up in a letter before someone's name and ensure we're all legal.

Perhaps PennDOT could fund a series of mobile units to get people registered and issue IDs?

How many millions in taxpayer funds should PA invest in solving a problem that doesn't exist?

They've already spent several million in court and in making changes at PennDOT.

I was mostly just being diplomatic, heh.


Meh...it frustrates me because I'm a rural living PA taxpayer...
 
2012-10-02 03:53:22 PM

iheartscotch: Bendal: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Lots of people who are "poor" work at jobs that don't give them time off, or if they don't work, may not have a vehicle, or have to rely on public transportation that doesn't go past whereever the ID office is located and is open. Some states closed ID offices in areas of heavy Democratic populations, others changed the times they were open to very restrictive hours. Other states don't come out with the requirements for the ID's, so someone needing an ID may have to make multiple trips to the office to get all the documents.

/still don't see what the actual goal is, do you?

But, but, but; if the id card place isn't open 24 hours a day, and if there isn't a dedicated bus line; how will undocumented immigrants steal old people's identities?

I'm not being serious; but dems aren't innocent as lambs in all this. Some of the same stuff happens to the 3 republicans in the democratic republic of California.

Depending on the state; it's pointless to be republican or democrat. I think political parties should be outlawed; mainly because of the "us vs. them" attitude that pervades the system.



really?

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/05/13/4486043/public-eye-bounty-hunting-at - heart.html

http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/riverside-county-democrats-cla i m-fraud-voter-outreach-project-18134

And considering that the acorn scandal was largely manufactured by GOP "investigative reporters" and self reported fraudulent forms ( No really we know these specific forms are questionable, but legally we have to turn them in) this seems to be alot of right wing projection.
 
2012-10-02 03:54:45 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: cptjeff: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: from all the (deceased / non-citizen) people voting

Can you show any proof of this happening? Any at all? Because Pennsylvania sure as hell looked for some, but they had to admit in court that there was absolutely no evidence of this actually happening.

In person voter fraud simply does not happen. It's a high risk crime with an incredibly low reward.

In example after example here on Fark, I have been shown by leading Fark Liberals that actual proof of a positive assertion is totally unnecessary. Can you prove it is NOT happening? go on, I dare you.


So we're going to disenfranchise millions of people based once more on ideological idiocy? Seems smart. I think what the conservatives fail to understand is how many rural whites they're gonna end up disenfranchising if this voter ID stuff gets standardized. For urban people (no, I don't just mean black people, I mean people in urban areas) . It will be easy for unions and democrats to organize bus trips to the dmv to get non-drivers IDs and get all those people ready to vote in the next four years... otoh, rural voters, people who may never have come down to the city ever, they're gonna be SOL.
 
2012-10-02 03:54:55 PM

Epoch_Zero: Much to the chagrin of the Republicans, Democracy still somewhat exists in PA.

Maybe next year, cons.


Yes, because democracy implies that anyone who stumbles across state borders should be able to vote for the highest office in the land, without proving citizenship.
 
2012-10-02 03:55:24 PM

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


Imagined Fraud is Imagined. Default position should be to allow voting as the most basic of rights; the burden is on the state to show I cannot, not on me to prove I have that right.
 
2012-10-02 03:58:39 PM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


Because the MVA (or DMV or other equivalent government bureau) doesn't usually have branches anywhere near a bus route?
 
2012-10-02 03:59:51 PM
Republicans on voter fraud:

farm1.staticflickr.com
 
2012-10-02 04:00:23 PM

olddinosaur: If you google "illegal immigrant voting" you will find about 8.5 million articles more or less.

There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

Obama beat McCain by 69 million to 59 million last election; this one is likely to be closer.

How many of those votes were illegal?


Now I know yous trollin. I'm in California. I have been registered to vote here since 1988, and haven't missed a single election. To vote here you have to bring nothing more than your voter booklet, the one the state mails to every registered voter every election cycle. You go to the polls, they ask you who you are and your address, then check it off on a list with everyone else in that precinct, then they have you sign your name on the same sheet. This also takes care of voter fraud because you have to know english well enough that you can understand what the old people at the polls are saying, to answer them, and to sign your name.

No illegal immigrant is going to do all that. The ones I know do their damndest to stay under the radar... why would they purposely go into a government sponsored function to expose themselves?

Class, this is a classic textbook example of a republican who thinks that the office of president should only be legitimately held by a republican, preferable a pale one. Near as I can tell, you're full of sh*t.
 
2012-10-02 04:00:28 PM
LOL, I'm going to tour the democracies of the World and demand that they let me vote for their representatives... Might help myself to some entitlement programs, while I'm at it.
 
2012-10-02 04:02:29 PM

Nutsac_Jim: firefly212: Nutsac_Jim: Mrtraveler01: That and when you have states that don't allow student ID's as a valid form of identification WHILE allowing NRA ID's to be a valid form of identification, the whole GOP concern about "protecting the integrity of our elections" falls on some pretty deaf ears with me.

Please provide proof of your assertion than any state accepts an NRA card as a valid form of ID in order to vote.

Tennesee. Mail from the NRA is considered just like a utility, it has your name and address... good enough to vote with.

/random knowledge is fun

That's awesome. The NRA sends you letters with your picture on it?


TN isn't a photo ID state (or at least it wasn't four years ago), they just require you be able to show residence, but they accept utilities as proof of residence, oddly enough, they also consider the NRA mail to be valid like a utility. There are actually several states where you need to demonstrate residency, but only require utilities, mail, or something along those lines.
 
2012-10-02 04:03:45 PM

authorizeduser: LOL, I'm going to tour the democracies of the World and demand that they let me vote for their representatives... Might help myself to some entitlement programs, while I'm at it.


The likelihood of you doing that is about the same as the likelihood of voter fraud, which should pretty much just shut you up entirely as it proves your entire position worthless.
 
2012-10-02 04:05:42 PM

PsiChick: Leeds: PsiChick: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Because if you're working a dead-end job and the DMV is only open from nine to five, you can't take time off work to renew your ID. And if you've been in that situation for a long time, you probably don't have a car or an up-to-date ID, because almost anyone will take an expired ID. This problem is multiplied exponentially if you have a child or some other responsibility.

Then it's probably a good thing that they're open 6 days a week.

// Just sayin'

Ha, you're funny.

/I don't know who runs your DMV, but there ain't a sixth day out here.
//And even if there were, see above--do you really think a weekend bus schedule, weekend babysitters (if you even have enough money for that), and DMV Saturday hours, if you don't have a six-day job, is reasonable? Because no, it's not.


If this theoretical person is unable to carve out an hour or two over the course of 8 months then it is clear that they would be unable to make it to the polls on election day anyway.

As a result, they are likely voting using an absentee ballot which does not require a photo ID anyway.

Where's the disenfranchisement?
 
2012-10-02 04:07:11 PM

rewind2846: olddinosaur: If you google "illegal immigrant voting" you will find about 8.5 million articles more or less.

There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

Obama beat McCain by 69 million to 59 million last election; this one is likely to be closer.

How many of those votes were illegal?

Now I know yous trollin. I'm in California. I have been registered to vote here since 1988, and haven't missed a single election. To vote here you have to bring nothing more than your voter booklet, the one the state mails to every registered voter every election cycle. You go to the polls, they ask you who you are and your address, then check it off on a list with everyone else in that precinct, then they have you sign your name on the same sheet. This also takes care of voter fraud because you have to know english well enough that you can understand what the old people at the polls are saying, to answer them, and to sign your name.

No illegal immigrant is going to do all that. The ones I know do their damndest to stay under the radar... why would they purposely go into a government sponsored function to expose themselves?

Class, this is a classic textbook example of a republican who thinks that the office of president should only be legitimately held by a republican, preferable a pale one. Near as I can tell, you're full of sh*t.


You realize how easy it is to absentee vote in CA and how easy it is to vote for someone else with it?

/honestly don't know anyone that doesn't absentee vote in CA
 
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