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(Google) NewsFlash Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people still allowed to vote in PA   (google.com) divider line 995
    More: NewsFlash, voter ID, dead people, League of Women Voters, provisional ballots, illegal immigrants, Pennsylvania Republicans, swing states, Tom Corbett  
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13303 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 11:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-10-02 02:44:31 PM

coeyagi: amiable: Leeds:
Don't drive???

Other that people who live in New York city, everyone drives. Even 99.9% of people with suspended licenses drive.

Uh, no... Plenty of older people and city dwellers do not drive. I know many of them. You are just entirely wrong here.

In my family alone who doesn't drive:

Cousin, is mildly autistic, still has the right to vote, lives in the sticks.
Aunt, old and feeble, now has mild Alzheimer's, lives at the beach, still has the right to vote.
Recently deceased grandmother, never drove, lived in the sticks, still had the right to vote.

But remember kids - everyone drives!


So if the law had not been postponed/struck down, your two mentally challenged family members are eligible for free ID's and your late grandmother is shiate out of luck.

That's kind of as it should be, right? (Unless you believe that the mentally ill should not be voting, but that's another thread)
 
2012-10-02 02:45:18 PM

Leeds:

So someone points out that if we ban illegals from voting, Romney will win


Wrong.

& you take that quote and spin it to pretend that illegals should be allowed to vote and he's somehow a meenie for pointing out that illegals vote Democrat?

BS. I will need a non-partisan citation that backs up your assertions. I'll wait.
 
2012-10-02 02:45:30 PM

Nutsac_Jim: HeartBurnKid: It costs money to get an ID, and it takes time smack in the middle of your workday to go to the DMV, time you aren't able to take off without losing any more money.

The IDs are F-R-E-E. And where is it that you are working, and need time off to get an ID, that you did not have to provide ID in order to work there in the first place?


Ya, I live in the mountains, as do many people in PA... its not free to have someone drive you for hours down to the dmv, spend their whole day with you, then drive you back up. You lose not only a days pay for not working, but another days pay in gas money... and that's at the very bottom end of the scale, you lying sack of shiat. For people struggling to pay for food and medicine, between taking the day off and gas money, that's several days of food they don't have.
 
2012-10-02 02:46:19 PM

Leeds: coeyagi: amiable: Leeds:
Don't drive???

Other that people who live in New York city, everyone drives. Even 99.9% of people with suspended licenses drive.

Uh, no... Plenty of older people and city dwellers do not drive. I know many of them. You are just entirely wrong here.

In my family alone who doesn't drive:

Cousin, is mildly autistic, still has the right to vote, lives in the sticks.
Aunt, old and feeble, now has mild Alzheimer's, lives at the beach, still has the right to vote.
Recently deceased grandmother, never drove, lived in the sticks, still had the right to vote.

But remember kids - everyone drives!

So if the law had not been postponed/struck down, your two mentally challenged family members are eligible for free ID's and your late grandmother is shiate out of luck.

That's kind of as it should be, right? (Unless you believe that the mentally ill should not be voting, but that's another thread)


Good, you took the bait.

So it is all about disenfranchising people you don't think should vote.

Thanks, and do you still think everyone drives? And if yes, do you think you are mentally capable of voting based on your own disenfranchisement standard?
 
2012-10-02 02:46:28 PM

Leeds: Disaster Transport: cptjeff: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Actually, I deeply resent the fact that I have to show ID virtually every time I cash a check, use my debit card, or apply for a job. ALL THAT SHOULD BE TOTALLY ANONYMOUS! Voting? Meh. Actually fairly unimportant.

I can't remember the last time I've been asked to show ID for any of those things. And the showing ID in everyday life thing as been shown to be hilariously false many times in this thread.

THIS. I mean seriously if I didn't go to a bar I would never take my ID out of my wallet. If you have had the same job for more than 5 years and don't drive or travel by air, why the heck would you go renew your license? My mom went nearly 20 years without a valid ID because she simply didn't do anything that required her to have one!

Don't drive???

Other that people who live in New York city, everyone drives. Even 99.9% of people with suspended licenses drive.


===========
Citation needed for "other that (sic) people who live in New York city, everyone drives"...

Look, I get you're troll-bait and have been trying to do a fabulous job, you do no one favors when you make stuff up. Why don't you and your 99.9% of suspended driver friends come to PA and see the 48 rural counties with DMZ apps and photo ID machines and help them out? Be part of a solution instead of compounding the problem...
 
2012-10-02 02:47:46 PM
I realize now that I am also uncomfortable with voter ID laws if a valid ID would have to include a photo, name, and address, right? Would the addresses have to match? I bet for at least 50% of my adult life my address on my ID has not matched my current place of residency. Plus, in IL, you can "register" a new address to your license but it's not on the card, it's only updated on in the system. I just have a hard time believing people moving from place to place would get a new ID every time they move. Unless this is all about matching a face to a name, in which case, all those John Smiths are lucky.
 
2012-10-02 02:48:02 PM

sonnyboy11: Leeds:

So someone points out that if we ban illegals from voting, Romney will win

Wrong.

& you take that quote and spin it to pretend that illegals should be allowed to vote and he's somehow a meenie for pointing out that illegals vote Democrat?

BS. I will need a non-partisan citation that backs up your assertions. I'll wait.


The math would take too long.

/zomg, paul ryan posessed my keyboard.
 
2012-10-02 02:48:12 PM

Mrtraveler01: That and when you have states that don't allow student ID's as a valid form of identification WHILE allowing NRA ID's to be a valid form of identification, the whole GOP concern about "protecting the integrity of our elections" falls on some pretty deaf ears with me.


Please provide proof of your assertion than any state accepts an NRA card as a valid form of ID in order to vote.
 
2012-10-02 02:48:38 PM

Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?


My Dad for one, Didnt need a photo id to get an apartment, Still has the same library card from 83, booze he shows his Medicare card and the gray hair and the fact that he has been shopping there for 14 years counts. He dosent get on planes, carry a gun, drive a car, he dosent use checks he uses cash for everything. He also dosnt need it to volunteer in a soup kitchen, or help his neighbors who cant move as well as he can. and for him the cost of a state ID it would equal his weeks food budget, a passport well over a months.
 
2012-10-02 02:49:35 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Mrtraveler01: That and when you have states that don't allow student ID's as a valid form of identification WHILE allowing NRA ID's to be a valid form of identification, the whole GOP concern about "protecting the integrity of our elections" falls on some pretty deaf ears with me.

Please provide proof of your assertion than any state accepts an NRA card as a valid form of ID in order to vote.


Please provide proof of your assertion that he said "any state". Hint: Look upthread, and BTW, it's not there.
 
2012-10-02 02:53:23 PM

Leeds: coeyagi: amiable: Leeds:
Don't drive???

Other that people who live in New York city, everyone drives. Even 99.9% of people with suspended licenses drive.

Uh, no... Plenty of older people and city dwellers do not drive. I know many of them. You are just entirely wrong here.

In my family alone who doesn't drive:

Cousin, is mildly autistic, still has the right to vote, lives in the sticks.
Aunt, old and feeble, now has mild Alzheimer's, lives at the beach, still has the right to vote.
Recently deceased grandmother, never drove, lived in the sticks, still had the right to vote.

But remember kids - everyone drives!

So if the law had not been postponed/struck down, your two mentally challenged family members are eligible for free ID's and your late grandmother is shiate out of luck.

That's kind of as it should be, right? (Unless you believe that the mentally ill should not be voting, but that's another thread)


Jesus, I kind of expected lots of ignorance here, but to be a total douchebag asshole too?

Dude, you just found my very short ignore list.
 
2012-10-02 02:53:29 PM

Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:


Not this sh*t again. Okay, I'm bored... time for a troll smackdown!

Driving
Driving is a privilege, not a right. A state can revoke your driving privileges within its borders anytime it chooses.

Purchasing a firearm Purchasing a firearm is also a privileges given by states. This is why every state has different rules and laws under which you can legally buy guns. The second amendment only guarantees your right to own a gun, not to buy a gun.

Carrying a firearm Carrying a firearm is a privilege granted by the states, which is why each one has their own rules and laws pertaining to the circumstances of that act. They can revoke that privilege any time they wish. And carrying a firearm is not a right. The second amendment only protects your right to own one.

Cashing a check People don't "cash checks" any more, they just deposit them into the ATM or snap a picture of them with their smartphone. Where are you writing this sh*t from, 1982? Cashing a check was never a right.

Opening a bank account Not always. I opened an account at my credit union 20 years ago, without state issued identification. I had my military ID instead. Opening a bank account is not a right either.

Using a debit or credit card For what? I use my credit and debit cards all the time. Swipe and sign. No ID required. Again, you're 30 years too late. And using a credit or debit card is not a right.

Opening a line of credit
Wrong again. Credit union, applied for and got a car loan, no ID. Opening a line of credit is also not a right.

Boarding a commercial flight Wrong yet again. The only time you need to produce identification is when you pick up your ticket. And, boarding a commercial flight is not a right.

Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
The college ID id not for Identification (I have two of them), but to obtain services from the college. They have a magnetic strip on them and are used like debit cards. Also, going to college is not a right.

Getting a passport People who travel regularly enough to require a passport are usually wealthy enough to have all the requisite documentation. Poor people may not have that luxury. Also, getting a passport is not a right.

Buying tobacco Only if you look underage where I live. And buying tobacco is not a right.

Buying alcohol Same as tobacco. And buying liquor is not a right.

Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it) Not a right, but a privilege.

Going over the border into Canada or Mexico Not a right, but a privilege.

Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that) Not a right, but a privilege.

Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Not a right, but a privilege.

Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on Not a right, but a privilege.

With all of that in mind...

Obviously the word "mind" doesn't apply to you. If it did you wouldn't have copypasta'd the same old bullsh*t debunked talking points that come up every single f*cking time one of these threads appears.

The PA judge made the right call. Republicans don't get to disenfranchise the poor, the elderly, the young, minorities, and students. Their tactics to steal elections they know they can't win honestly (because they know their policies, platforms and candidates are pieces of sh*t) failed here. Voting is a right that should never be denied under any circumstances to all qualified citizens, according to the laws of the state where they vote.

Today is a good day.
 
2012-10-02 02:54:09 PM
I see this thread is diseased with derp.
 
2012-10-02 02:54:10 PM

Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?


I have ID, let's be clear though, if you don't drive, your passport is fine for all of that... is not ok in many states for voting though because it doesn't have an address on it. The crap of it is, I live in BFE in the mountains, I can get a passport and renew it right at the post office with no fuss, but to get my non-driver id card took several hours of a friend driving me down to the city, a few different dmv offices (apparently some do licenses for cars, others do licenses for people, and some have "service fees" that cost more than the ID itself. There's no free way to the DMV, there's no free way back, there's certainly not a paid day for me to go deal with this bs, so I'm out that money too.

That said, my passport opened my bank account, was fine for my I9 with my job, has gotten me into other countries (oddly enough it's easier where I live to get to the airport than to get to the DMV), and I never once really felt disadvantaged until all of this voter ID nonsense came about.
 
2012-10-02 02:59:57 PM

cptjeff: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: from all the (deceased / non-citizen) people voting

Can you show any proof of this happening? Any at all? Because Pennsylvania sure as hell looked for some, but they had to admit in court that there was absolutely no evidence of this actually happening.

In person voter fraud simply does not happen. It's a high risk crime with an incredibly low reward.


In example after example here on Fark, I have been shown by leading Fark Liberals that actual proof of a positive assertion is totally unnecessary. Can you prove it is NOT happening? go on, I dare you.
 
2012-10-02 02:59:58 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Mrtraveler01: That and when you have states that don't allow student ID's as a valid form of identification WHILE allowing NRA ID's to be a valid form of identification, the whole GOP concern about "protecting the integrity of our elections" falls on some pretty deaf ears with me.

Please provide proof of your assertion than any state accepts an NRA card as a valid form of ID in order to vote.


Tennesee. Mail from the NRA is considered just like a utility, it has your name and address... good enough to vote with.

/random knowledge is fun
 
2012-10-02 03:00:45 PM

sonnyboy11: Leeds:

So someone points out that if we ban illegals from voting, Romney will win

Wrong.

& you take that quote and spin it to pretend that illegals should be allowed to vote and he's somehow a meenie for pointing out that illegals vote Democrat?

BS. I will need a non-partisan citation that backs up your assertions. I'll wait.


Oh, you think I'm the misquoted lawmaker?

How cute.
 
2012-10-02 03:01:31 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Can you prove it is NOT happening? go on, I dare you.


PA did. Testified in court that it wasn't happening. Under oath even.
 
2012-10-02 03:02:06 PM

Alassra: Why don't you and your 99.9% of suspended driver friends come to PA and see the 48 rural counties with DMZ apps and photo ID machines and help them out? Be part of a solution instead of compounding the problem...



As both a PA resident and subby I have to say- Suck it, fatty. Suck it long and suck it hard.
 
2012-10-02 03:04:34 PM

RockChalkH1N1: NateGrey: Marine1: Dude, if you don't have an ID, you're off the farking grid these days. I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?

Good point, can you and your Republican buddies drive the people who dont have an ID to the ID place and pay for it so they can vote?

You're kidding? They can get a ride to vote, but they cant get a state id...


Oh so you will take them to do both?

Awesome, dont forget to bring some cash to pay for their IDs.

You Republicans are nicer than the guys that represent you.
 
2012-10-02 03:06:47 PM

Leeds: Alassra: Why don't you and your 99.9% of suspended driver friends come to PA and see the 48 rural counties with DMZ apps and photo ID machines and help them out? Be part of a solution instead of compounding the problem...


As both a PA resident and subby I have to say- Suck it, fatty. Suck it long and suck it hard.


Are you this man?

thegrio.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-02 03:07:14 PM

firefly212: Ya, I live in the mountains, as do many people in PA... its not free to have someone drive you for hours down to the dmv, spend their whole day with you, then drive you back up. You lose not only a days pay for not working, but another days pay in gas money... and that's at the very bottom end of the scale, you lying sack of shiat. For people struggling to pay for food and medicine, between taking the day off and gas money, that's several days of food they don't have.


Again.. how did you get your job in the first place, without supplying them an ID?

Alternatively, if you do not want to drive a whole day to get to town, try using a stamp and an absentee ballot.
 
2012-10-02 03:08:24 PM

NateGrey: RockChalkH1N1: NateGrey: Marine1: Dude, if you don't have an ID, you're off the farking grid these days. I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?

Good point, can you and your Republican buddies drive the people who dont have an ID to the ID place and pay for it so they can vote?

You're kidding? They can get a ride to vote, but they cant get a state id...

Oh so you will take them to do both?

Awesome, dont forget to bring some cash to pay for their IDs.

You Republicans are nicer than the guys that represent you.


In DE (and PA, where I used to live), we are tripping over polling places. State ID places - not so much.

But obviously Wal-mart is having a half-off special on False Equivalency in this thread, so let's keep on keeping on, keeping-oners.
 
2012-10-02 03:10:11 PM

Derp Du Jour: Be ready for derpcon level 4 outrage on Fox


Maybe not - note the part where all the ads saying you need it stay up, and the poll people can request ID, they just can't stop you if you don't have it. They might try and stay mum on that so word doesn't get out.

I expect epic levels of bluffing from the Republican-leaning poll workers on this - either "your ballot needs a special mark", or just saying no and pleading ignorance later.
 
2012-10-02 03:10:36 PM

Leeds: Alassra: Why don't you and your 99.9% of suspended driver friends come to PA and see the 48 rural counties with DMZ apps and photo ID machines and help them out? Be part of a solution instead of compounding the problem...


As both a PA resident and subby I have to say- Suck it, fatty. Suck it long and suck it hard.


===============

As a PA resident and valid ID carrying voter who has been voting since I was 18, I refuse to stoop to insults and name-calling to seem important.

You're quick to call names and insult, yet you seem to lack a lot of knowledge / facts / rational thought to back up that trash talk. Again, I asked YOU to do your part to help and you call names - I'm a PA resident and have been helping get the word out and ensuring folks get ID. Why don't you try that instead of name calling? That would probably take more effort on your part that you're willing to invest - sitting online and name calling seems easier, no?
 
2012-10-02 03:11:27 PM

coeyagi: Nutsac_Jim: Mrtraveler01: That and when you have states that don't allow student ID's as a valid form of identification WHILE allowing NRA ID's to be a valid form of identification, the whole GOP concern about "protecting the integrity of our elections" falls on some pretty deaf ears with me.

Please provide proof of your assertion than any state accepts an NRA card as a valid form of ID in order to vote.

Please provide proof of your assertion that he said "any state". Hint: Look upthread, and BTW, it's not there.


Well., if you look up about 4 or 5 lines, you will see where he said ' you have states'. This means he is asserting that multiple states accept an NRA ID card as voter ID. He simply needs to tell us one of them.
 
2012-10-02 03:11:47 PM

rewind2846: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Not this sh*t again. Okay, I'm bored... time for a troll smackdown!

Driving Driving is a privilege, not a right. A state can revoke your driving privileges within its borders anytime it chooses.

Purchasing a firearm Purchasing a firearm is also a privileges given by states. This is why every state has different rules and laws under which you can legally buy guns. The second amendment only guarantees your right to own a gun, not to buy a gun.

Carrying a firearm Carrying a firearm is a privilege granted by the states, which is why each one has their own rules and laws pertaining to the circumstances of that act. They can revoke that privilege any time they wish. And carrying a firearm is not a right. The second amendment only protects your right to own one.

Cashing a check People don't "cash checks" any more, they just deposit them into the ATM or snap a picture of them with their smartphone. Where are you writing this sh*t from, 1982? Cashing a check was never a right.

Opening a bank account Not always. I opened an account at my credit union 20 years ago, without state issued identification. I had my military ID instead. Opening a bank account is not a right either.

Using a debit or credit card For what? I use my credit and debit cards all the time. Swipe and sign. No ID required. Again, you're 30 years too late. And using a credit or debit card is not a right.

Opening a line of credit Wrong again. Credit union, applied for and got a car loan, no ID. Opening a line of credit is also not a right.

Boarding a commercial flight Wrong yet again. The only time you need to produce identification is when you pick up your ticket. And, boarding a commercial flight is not a right.

Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus) The college ID id not for Identification (I have two of them), but to obtain servi ...


God damn but you're an idiot. A "right" is something that is non-contextual: It applies to EVERYONE. Voting is therefore a privilege and NOT a right, as it does not apply, for example, to felons and ex-felons. Just this one example shoots down most of your points.

Also.... 2nd amendment guarantees owning a gun but not buying it? So how do you own a gun without buying it? Why I guess you just build one (oh, wait, you need to have a federally approved gunsmith license to do that). Or I guess you could just steal one.

Ownership implies the right to purchase. Without it, it is similar to the situation that existed in Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, where you could theoretically publish any book you wanted, but, oh, wait, all of the farking printing presses are owned or closely controlled by the State.

Yeah, you're an idiot. Go read some farking books and get back to me.
 
2012-10-02 03:11:55 PM

odinsposse: slykens1: qorkfiend: Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.

Funnily enough, if you want an ID to vote PennDOT will give you one for free.

Oh, and your nursing home ID and student ID are OK too if they have an expiration date.

I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.

So are you disputing the surveys that say a significant portion of the population don't have a valid idea or are you just straight up using the fallacy of incredulity?


Well, I don't know about the whole survey of IDs - and IMHO, 'significant' does tend to be used in an overreaching manner - but I definitely agree with the idea survey.
 
2012-10-02 03:12:51 PM

X-boxershorts: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Can you prove it is NOT happening? go on, I dare you.

PA did. Testified in court that it wasn't happening. Under oath even.


Legal proof. Not existential proof.

Try again.
 
2012-10-02 03:13:01 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: I see this thread is diseased with derp.


This

The thread said 60 new posts, clicks link, 'Ignore User' filter applied, now showing 19 posts.

The paid shills are coming out in droves over this one.
 
2012-10-02 03:13:19 PM

Nutsac_Jim: coeyagi: Nutsac_Jim: Mrtraveler01: That and when you have states that don't allow student ID's as a valid form of identification WHILE allowing NRA ID's to be a valid form of identification, the whole GOP concern about "protecting the integrity of our elections" falls on some pretty deaf ears with me.

Please provide proof of your assertion than any state accepts an NRA card as a valid form of ID in order to vote.

Please provide proof of your assertion that he said "any state". Hint: Look upthread, and BTW, it's not there.

Well., if you look up about 4 or 5 lines, you will see where he said ' you have states'. This means he is asserting that multiple states accept an NRA ID card as voter ID. He simply needs to tell us one of them.


So what you're saying is that you don't understand adjectives. Any != Some. MrTraveler01 needed to provide examples of "some" states.

Carry on.
 
2012-10-02 03:15:07 PM

Bag of Hammers: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

*notsureifserious*


This is how republicans actually rationalize it. Even though individual voter fraud is probably rare, and there are already procedures in place to ensure one vote per registered person making official ID cards unnecessary.

Would it stop non-citizens from voting? Maybe if these people were a significant part of your state's population, aren't able to acquire a driver's license, manage to register to vote anyway, and insist on voting.
 
2012-10-02 03:15:16 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: X-boxershorts: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Can you prove it is NOT happening? go on, I dare you.

PA did. Testified in court that it wasn't happening. Under oath even.

Legal proof. Not existential proof.

Try again.


Prove that Ronald Reagan WASN'T an alien. Go ahead.

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.
 
2012-10-02 03:16:48 PM

coeyagi: "Aunt, old and feeble, now has mild Alzheimer's, lives at the beach, still has the right to vote".


And...you don't see a problem with a clinically demented person being allowed to influence national policy?


TNel: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

I got my first job in HS at 15 no ID needed...



I call bullshiat. I got my first job at 13. Legal, all above board...had to get permission from my school and a sign-off from both parents, IIRC. I had to produce my original Social Security card...while that in itself is not a photo ID, it *IS* sufficient in any state to get a photo ID issued to you. (Note that in Pennsylvania, getting this photo ID is explicitly free and doesn't even require a Social Security card, merely a number.) In other words, if you have what it legally takes to get a job -- even at 15 -- then you have what it takes to obtain a photo ID.
 
2012-10-02 03:17:03 PM

skygod: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Actually, I deeply resent the fact that I have to show ID virtually every time I cash a check, use my debit card, or apply for a job. ALL THAT SHOULD BE TOTALLY ANONYMOUS! Voting? Meh. Actually fairly unimportant.

Hey, look at the bright side. You and your retarded buddy's will have 4 more years of those awesome birther email forwards.


???? Do you have, you know, an actual POINT, or are you just babbling to hear yourself?
 
2012-10-02 03:17:22 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: X-boxershorts: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Can you prove it is NOT happening? go on, I dare you.

PA did. Testified in court that it wasn't happening. Under oath even.

Legal proof. Not existential proof.

Try again.


A court ruling IS legal proof. It's called legal precedence. Derp.
 
2012-10-02 03:17:38 PM

firefly212: Nutsac_Jim: Mrtraveler01: That and when you have states that don't allow student ID's as a valid form of identification WHILE allowing NRA ID's to be a valid form of identification, the whole GOP concern about "protecting the integrity of our elections" falls on some pretty deaf ears with me.

Please provide proof of your assertion than any state accepts an NRA card as a valid form of ID in order to vote.

Tennesee. Mail from the NRA is considered just like a utility, it has your name and address... good enough to vote with.

/random knowledge is fun


That's awesome. The NRA sends you letters with your picture on it?
 
2012-10-02 03:17:58 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: X-boxershorts: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Can you prove it is NOT happening? go on, I dare you.

PA did. Testified in court that it wasn't happening. Under oath even.

Legal proof. Not existential proof.

Try again.


You have it backwards. If you're going to affect the exercising of a constitutional right, perhaps you should prove beyond a doubt the need to place restrictions on the exercising of that right. Which is precisely what the PA Supreme court has said.
 
2012-10-02 03:18:07 PM

rewind2846: "People who travel regularly enough to require a passport are usually wealthy enough to have all the requisite documentation. Poor people may not have that luxury. Also, getting a passport is not a right."



www.clker.com

Nobody's suggesting that it is. However, for citizens, entering the country IS a right. And a passport -- not just a photo ID, but a particularly expensive and demanding one -- is very much required to exercise it.

Voting is the *only* conditional (i.e. contingent on age, citizenship, criminal record, etc.) constitutional right that is NOT currently subject to verification of identity. Why do you believe it should get a pass?
 
2012-10-02 03:18:41 PM

Alassra: Leeds: Alassra: Why don't you and your 99.9% of suspended driver friends come to PA and see the 48 rural counties with DMZ apps and photo ID machines and help them out? Be part of a solution instead of compounding the problem...


As both a PA resident and subby I have to say- Suck it, fatty. Suck it long and suck it hard.

===============

As a PA resident and valid ID carrying voter who has been voting since I was 18, I refuse to stoop to insults and name-calling to seem important.

You're quick to call names and insult, yet you seem to lack a lot of knowledge / facts / rational thought to back up that trash talk. Again, I asked YOU to do your part to help and you call names - I'm a PA resident and have been helping get the word out and ensuring folks get ID. Why don't you try that instead of name calling? That would probably take more effort on your part that you're willing to invest - sitting online and name calling seems easier, no?


Ok, I'll pretend that you weren't trolling above and I'll engage you in normal discourse.

In this thread some people (still) have been saying that ID's cost money. They do not. I have posted links multiple times, but people seem unwilling to read them.

Then people started saying that there are tons of people who don't drive. I was born in PA and I know of only one person of voting age who doesn't have (or didn't ever have) a drivers license. Her name is Jenn and she's afraid of cars.

You have just pointed out that you've been involved in getting the word out about this change. I commend you for trying to help, but I wonder if you feel you've made a difference in any way. In the 7 months since ID's became free and in the 6 or so months that this has been on the news every night, how many people have you reached out to who were unaware of this change coming down the pike? And if they don't follow politics/news and they have no idea about how or where or when to vote, would they have voted anyway? I don't ask that question to suggest that I'd prefer to disenfranchise them, but if they choose to make themselves ineligible to cast a vote that they don't intend to cast anyway, why is it the state's problem?
 
2012-10-02 03:19:15 PM

Nutsac_Jim:
Again.. how did you get your job in the first place, without supplying them an ID?


I had a job at a school district starting in 1998 that I never showed ID for. I lost my wallet when I first started and couldn't give them a copy of my license or SS card when they asked for it. When I explained they asked me to give it to them they said it could wait until I got the cards replaced. I forgot about it and so did they. It was only discovered when I gave my 2 weeks notice a few years later before starting a new job.
 
2012-10-02 03:19:19 PM

ackb4r: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: X-boxershorts: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Can you prove it is NOT happening? go on, I dare you.

PA did. Testified in court that it wasn't happening. Under oath even.

Legal proof. Not existential proof.

Try again.

Prove that Ronald Reagan WASN'T an alien. Go ahead.

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.


Not according to Liberal Epistomology.
 
2012-10-02 03:19:20 PM
Here's my quick and dirty research on this topic:

"The state of Pennsylvania found that 758,000 registered voters lacked a Department of Motor Vehicles ID"

"Nevertheless, we identified hundreds of cases of voting irregularities [in select precincts] that warrant further investigation." Out of 5.7 million votes

Schmidt's report does identify some cases of apparently illegal conduct: one woman who appears to have voted twice in two different voting divisions; one case of voter impersonation (but not in the 2012 primary, which the report focused on); 23 cases of un-registered people convincing poll workers to let them sign "voter slips" in violation of procedure and cast machine votes; one polling place in the Northeast where six more votes were tallied on machines than voters who signed in (curiously, the extra votes were all cast in the Republican primary in a predominantly Democratic division); and seven non-US citizens voting over the last 10 years.

So we are making it harder for 758,000 voters to vote to help stop hundres of voter fraud, not thousands or tens of thousands but hundreds! WTF are we wasting our time and money on here.
 
2012-10-02 03:20:05 PM

spmkk: coeyagi: "Aunt, old and feeble, now has mild Alzheimer's, lives at the beach, still has the right to vote".

And...you don't see a problem with a clinically demented person being allowed to influence national policy?


TNel: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

I got my first job in HS at 15 no ID needed...


I call bullshiat. I got my first job at 13. Legal, all above board...had to get permission from my school and a sign-off from both parents, IIRC. I had to produce my original Social Security card...while that in itself is not a photo ID, it *IS* sufficient in any state to get a photo ID issued to you. (Note that in Pennsylvania, getting this photo ID is explicitly free and doesn't even require a Social Security card, merely a number.) In other words, if you have what it legally takes to get a job -- even at 15 -- then you have what it takes to obtain a photo ID.


No more so than a person who watches Fox News every day, which I equate to like a bionic implanting of Schizophrenia.
 
2012-10-02 03:22:19 PM

nytmare: This is how republicans actually rationalize it. Even though individual voter fraud is probably rare, and there are already procedures in place to ensure one vote per registered person making official ID cards unnecessary.


Because you are physically incapable of signing a name that's not your own, amirite?

And there is some sort of force field that bars you from entering 2 polling stations in the same day, right?
 
2012-10-02 03:22:48 PM
What about retards? They can vote, too, right? If so, the Republicans can still win this thing. They've got the tard vote locked up.
 
2012-10-02 03:22:57 PM

coeyagi: spmkk: coeyagi: "Aunt, old and feeble, now has mild Alzheimer's, lives at the beach, still has the right to vote".

And...you don't see a problem with a clinically demented person being allowed to influence national policy?


TNel: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

I got my first job in HS at 15 no ID needed...


I call bullshiat. I got my first job at 13. Legal, all above board...had to get permission from my school and a sign-off from both parents, IIRC. I had to produce my original Social Security card...while that in itself is not a photo ID, it *IS* sufficient in any state to get a photo ID issued to you. (Note that in Pennsylvania, getting this photo ID is explicitly free and doesn't even require a Social Security card, merely a number.) In other words, if you have what it legally takes to get a job -- even at 15 -- then you have what it takes to obtain a photo ID.

No more so than a person who watches Fox News every day, which I equate to like a bionic implanting of Schizophrenia.


Also, she tends to be fine on discussions of politics. Where she left the car keys and did she leave the stove on? Not so much.
 
2012-10-02 03:23:29 PM

spmkk:
TNel: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

I got my first job in HS at 15 no ID needed...


I call bullshiat. I got my first job at 13. Legal, all above board...had to get permission from my school and a sign-off from both parents, IIRC. I had to produce my original Social Security card...while that in itself is not a photo ID, it *IS* sufficient in any state to get a photo ID issued to you. (Note that in Pennsylvania, getting this photo ID is explicitly free and doesn't even require a Social Security card, merely a number.) In other words, if you have what it legally takes to get a job -- even at 15 -- then you have what it takes to obtain a photo ID.


When people say ID they mean picture ID dumbass, I did't get my drivers license till I was 19, so to me I had no ID other than SSN and Birth till I was 19. Yes I could have gotten one but I didn't need one so why should I spend the time and effort to get something that I would not need.
 
2012-10-02 03:24:30 PM
I'll be perfectly honest I don't think dumb and poor people should vote, I would have much more stringent conditions on voting including IQ tests, historical knowledge of US Constitutional and Common law doctrine and its development, civics, and quite possibly service in the military, Peace corps, or extensive volunteer work through College. Voting should be seen as something to be prepared for very early in the year. Like studying for the SAT, LSATS, etc. But yeah, this is a start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio
 
2012-10-02 03:24:57 PM

bugontherug: Leeds: You are a pathetically ignorant little shiate. If I was the president I'd ban you from voting out of concern that you lack the intelligence to cast a farking ballot, you malodorous perverted little twit.

1) You're the ignoramous here who thinks everyone has routine internet access.

2) The bolded section right here is what's really behind this: conservatives don't believe in universal suffrage. They think certain classes of people aren't good enough to vote. It angers them that members of certain groups, sometimes defined by immutable characteristics, are allowed to vote at all.


The ironic part is that Democrats are on average, much more intelligent and educated than Republicans, and if they instituted an IQ test to vote, Republicans would be the one to oppose it most strongly for just that reason.
 
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