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(Google) NewsFlash Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people still allowed to vote in PA   (google.com) divider line 995
    More: NewsFlash, voter ID, dead people, League of Women Voters, provisional ballots, illegal immigrants, Pennsylvania Republicans, swing states, Tom Corbett  
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13303 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 11:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-10-02 12:48:49 PM

justtray: Marine1: Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:

But, but, poor people never do any of that...

You were already told that ID is not a requirement for nearly all of those things, but you've chosen to ignore it with delfections. No one is going to take you seriously if you keep up your barriers to fact. The FACTS are IDs are not a legal requirement to nearly ALL of those listed. Address the point directly, or discontinue this meritless line or argument. Or just become fully ignored like I'm sure most people have you already set to.


Actually, I gave you several examples for that stuff... so... you're the meritless one.
 
2012-10-02 12:49:01 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: mr lawson: Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?

Do you have any evidence proving they do in any significant way?


Sure!
 
2012-10-02 12:49:03 PM

iheartscotch: Lionel Mandrake: iheartscotch: I also said; Ids are required for a lot of important things. Why not voting?

Where there's no problem, no solution is needed.

Make the IDs free and easy to obtain and there is no problem.

This seems to come up every election; the laws tend to make replacing a lost Id free and easy. It's almost as though everybody procrastinated 4 or 2 or whatever number of years. Would you prefer blood scans as aposed to a physical id that you can loose?


It's not free and easy, especially for the elderly who, in addition to having a generally difficult time getting places and waiting in lines, often do not have or long ago lost their birth certificates, meaning more money and lines. I think young(er) people assume that because it's pretty easy for them, it must be no big deal for everyone, which is not true. But, still, and I can't stress this enough, voter ID laws address a problem that does not exist. Set a long-term goal to get everyone a photo ID card that is available to all free of charge, and we have no problem. Still, there is also no "problem" that it will solve.

/ also; have you been denying them your essence, mandrake?


For now, but one of these days I'm going to unleash all my essence at once. Boy will the wife be surprised.
 
2012-10-02 12:49:07 PM

Mercutio74: http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=ind e x&lang=e


Let me try that again and I'll be less stupid this time...

HERE
 
2012-10-02 12:50:16 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: mr lawson: Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?

Do you have any evidence proving they do in any significant way?


Not to mention, if there's one demographic that can easily get faked credentials, it's illegal aliens.
 
2012-10-02 12:50:50 PM

mr lawson: The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?


How about in order to vote, you should be able to pass the citizenship test whether you are legal or illegal?
 
2012-10-02 12:51:12 PM

mr lawson: Sure!


Well then this must be happening - and at three times the rate! Link
 
2012-10-02 12:51:27 PM

olddinosaur: If you google "illegal immigrant voting" you will find about 8.5 million articles more or less.

There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

Obama beat McCain by 69 million to 59 million last election; this one is likely to be closer.

How many of those votes were illegal?


None, because states' attorney generals check voter registrations versus property records and only add valid names to the rolls.
 
2012-10-02 12:51:35 PM

you have pee hands: Also the electoral college is a giant crock of shiat, though we'll never pass a constitutional amendment to fix that goddamn mess.

Low population states have more than double the representation per capita of high population states and unless you're in one of the dozen or so swing states your vote might as well not count at all for either side.


You know how I know you've never read the reason why this was done in the first place?
 
2012-10-02 12:51:52 PM
I would send Marine1 to the Land of Nore but it's fun watching him get smacked around in this thread like an Osama bin Laden-shaped pinata.
 
2012-10-02 12:51:55 PM

theknuckler_33: Election workers will still be allowed to ask voters for a valid photo ID, but people without it can vote on a regular voting machine in the polling place and would not have to cast a provisional ballot or prove their identity to election officials after the election.

So, do I refuse to show my ID if I am asked?


Marine1: Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.


You don't need ID to rent an apartment, or purchase tobacco or alcohol. If the renter is willing to take your word for it who you are, or, if the rented property is under someone else's name, you'd not need ID. If the alcohol and tobacco sellers are willing to sell to you without an ID, because they know you or believe you are old enough to purchase those products, you can do so without ID. Poor people may take public transport of rely on biking or friends to get them places, neither requires ID. If I get a paycheck in my name, I can endorse it over to someone else who has a bank account, who would be able to cash the check. The poor also do a lot of underground, paid by cash, work. 

I voted in my first four presidential elections without ID. Also, a whole bunch of off-year and primary voting elections, too.
 
2012-10-02 12:52:03 PM

mr lawson: Lionel Mandrake: The argument is that it amounts to a poll tax, results in keeping eligible voters from voting, and addresses a non-existent "problem"

The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?


No. Is this a problem? Or do you just assume that loads of illegals are fraudulently and nefariously voting - and risking being caught - just to tip local elections? Please, give me examples.
 
2012-10-02 12:52:43 PM

danfrank: Oh no! How can they ignore the ZERO cases of voter fraud currently being prosecuted by PA?


PA doesn't prosecute documented cases of voter intimidation, either.
 
2012-10-02 12:53:01 PM

amindtat: mr lawson: The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?

How about in order to vote, you should be able to pass the citizenship test whether you are legal or illegal?


That's a poll test and is illegal because the it was used as a way of disenfranchising black voters.

But I'd make it a condition of running for office, certainly.
 
2012-10-02 12:53:20 PM

Theaetetus: This text is now purple: dustygrimp: Because the .00004% of votes cast that were proven fraudulent over the last 4 years is a big problem.

Margin of victory for Kennedy over Nixon, 1960: 0.013%.
Margin of victory for Bush over Gore, 2000: 0.002%.

It doesn't necessarily take much to swing an election.

You realize that you're three and two orders of magnitude off, respectively?

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x221]
What an order of magnitude may look like.


Off even more than that. The estimated .00004% number is over four years and across all elections during that time.
 
2012-10-02 12:53:33 PM
Ok, assuming the rate of fraud is actually low and not an effect on elections, I'd ask why that would be the case?

Most of the people in here seem apt to assume the "other party" would stoop to any level to win, including commit voter fraud. So:

1. It's nearly impossible to commit voter fraud?
2. You can't commit enough fraud to swing an election?
3. We're willing to live with the risk in order to protect the rights of voters?
4. We'll always catch the "other party" cheating?

Not sure why the response seems to always be "do absolutely nothing" here.
 
2012-10-02 12:55:20 PM

coeyagi: It's beautiful when trolls / low-information voters internet fist-bump.


Every time this happens a dolphin gets a hemorrhoid.
 
2012-10-02 12:55:23 PM

mr lawson: Lionel Mandrake: The argument is that it amounts to a poll tax, results in keeping eligible voters from voting, and addresses a non-existent "problem"

The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?


Conservatives demand that not a single illegal cast a ballot even if that means US citizens are unfairly prevented from voting.

Liberals demand that not a single US citizen by unfairly prevented from voting even if that means an illegal ballot can be cast.

Denying any US citizen their constitutionally protected right to vote under ANY circumstance is a despicable position to take especially in the absence of any evidence whatsoever that illegals are actually casting ballots.
 
2012-10-02 12:56:27 PM

iheartscotch: The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

/ I know; I'm worse than hitler


Voter ID laws would do nothing to prevent that sort of thing.

They only check to see whether you are who you say you are. The poll workers have no way of knowing whether you also have ID and are registered in another state.
 
2012-10-02 12:57:12 PM

Lionel Mandrake: and risking being caught - just to tip local elections? Please, give me examples.


and how..pray i ask...under the current system, "risk being caught?"

There is no risk right now.
 
2012-10-02 12:57:15 PM

amindtat: mr lawson: The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?

How about in order to vote, you should be able to pass the cizenship test?


Toss in an IQ test and I'll back your proposal.
 
2012-10-02 12:57:28 PM
I live in an area that's not exactly impoverished, but pretty much everyone is struggling to make ends meet. The DMV is only open 4 days per week and closes at 4pm. It used to be open 2 Saturdays per month, but the last I checked it had gone down to one Saturday per month, and it closes at 2pm.

If you're lucky enough to have a job where taking occasional time off to run errands isn't a big deal, hooray for you. But a great many people only get a few personal/sick days off every year, and they have to be used wisely.
 
2012-10-02 12:57:58 PM

sdd2000: iheartscotch: sdd2000: iheartscotch: The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

/ I know; I'm worse than hitler

And how does this law stop this? Also, what percent of voting population could that apply to, is it even as high as .01% ?

Never said it did; like I said, states should compare voter rolls and investigate duplicates.

I also said; Ids are required for a lot of important things. Why not voting? Would you be in favor of a blood scan to prove identity instead of a ID card? It's not like a persons' blood type suddenly changes.

/ .01 of 300,000,000 is 3,000,000; 300 million is the population of the United States

The states should investigate duplicates as well as any voter fraud or registration fraud, but you have avoided the question of how the voter ID law in PA would solve this alleged problem? How would blood typing? Wouldn't comparing the signature on the voting books to one provided by the voter be equally effective?


BTW .01% of 300 million is not 3 million or do you subscribe to the Paul Ryan/Romney math issues? It is 1 percent not 1/100 of one percent which was the number I was using, however even the high estimates put the number as being much less than 1/1000 of one percent.


I never said that the voter Id law would solve voter fraud. I do like the law; but it the id has to be free and easy to get. Blood typing has advanced beyond simple types; the idea being, you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that a vote was cast by that voter. Hand writing can be duplicated; and some vets came back from Iraq without a hand; I imagine their signatures might be different. And your signature does change over time.

I was saying that the actual solution was comparing rolls and duplicates.

I know what I did; needed more zeros. Math is hard. 30,000 is .01 of 1% of 300 million. Besides; we don't know what the actual number is. It could be 0, but that is unlikely. But, it is equally unlikely that the number is big.

/ maybe we just need to do the purple finger thing
 
2012-10-02 12:58:01 PM

bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


for the same reason they are poor in the first place. they are lazy!
 
2012-10-02 12:59:35 PM

5monkeys: Stop making excuses for people.


In other words, if you are a US citizen without ID, then fark off.

Is that about right?

Congratulations, you're a douchebag.
 
2012-10-02 01:00:13 PM

theknuckler_33: Saruman_W: What's so good about this? Is it so wrong to verify someone is who they say they are and properly registered before you vote? Seriously, it takes like 2 freakin' seconds to whip that card out.

You get carded when you buy a gun, or buy booze and all sorts of other crap... what's so different about casting in a vote to decide who runs out entire country for 4 more years?

In Pa., when you go to the polls, you give your name, they look up your name in the voting register where a copy of your signature from when your registered is displayed. You sign the line right next to your signature and the poll worker verifies that your signature matches the one from when you registered.

What is wrong with this?


That doesn't prove anything. People can go in there and be whoever they want to be, forge a signature and cast off a vote. Poll workers won't know the difference. This "poor people don't have IDs bawwwww" crap is just a crutch. IDs are NOT expensive at all. Those opposed to this law only want to keep the steady flow of illegal voters to ensure the return of their Lord and Savior Barack Obama after the election.
 
2012-10-02 01:01:05 PM

Rwa2play: You know how I know you've never read the reason why this was done in the first place?


No. Are you a wizard?

This ain't the same place it was in 1789, and the Constitution was never intended to be kept as a static document for a quarter of a millennium irrespective of changes in the world around it.
 
2012-10-02 01:01:43 PM

theknuckler_33: mr lawson: Lionel Mandrake: The argument is that it amounts to a poll tax, results in keeping eligible voters from voting, and addresses a non-existent "problem"

The way it is now it allows "INELIGIBLE" voters (illegals) to vote.

Do you believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be able to vote?

Conservatives demand that not a single illegal cast a ballot even if that means US citizens are unfairly prevented from voting.

Liberals demand that not a single US citizen by unfairly prevented from voting even if that means an illegal ballot can be cast.

Denying any US citizen their constitutionally protected right to vote under ANY circumstance is a despicable position to take especially in the absence of any evidence whatsoever that illegals are actually casting ballots.


This is the basic argument.
If there were a low number of Illegals, it would not be such a problem, There are aprox 7-20 million of them and that number can skew results.
 
2012-10-02 01:01:49 PM

coeyagi: B) It wasn't a study - it was me crunching the numbers. Very simple - find electoral college results, compare to national educational rankings, average blue and red states. You can draw your own conclusions, I was just pointing out facts. Also, while the NY example might be true, do you think it would occur like that in every state or a bunch of states that went blue? Please.


Link

A group that historically votes democrat 98% of the time does terrible in school....so extrapolating from that it imust the republicans who bring up the states average....yes?

Even the electoral map will show you blue areas in the inner city...where these people live...and red everywhere else.
 
2012-10-02 01:02:22 PM

Leeds: Toss in an IQ test and I'll back your proposal.


no ..poll tax
 
2012-10-02 01:03:02 PM

mr lawson: If there were a low number of Illegals, it would not be such a problem, There are aprox 7-20 million of them and that number can skew results.


The guy who thinks google search results equal evidence is concerned, you guys.
 
2012-10-02 01:03:05 PM
"I don't agree with it, but it's the law," one person said.

With his group now in line, Martin waits outside.

And waits...And waits...And waits...

He remembers last week...

"We brought one gentleman in- I think the whole total trip was four hours when we got back home."

It's now nearly 11:30 a.m. and Joseph Fowler emerges- frustrated. Because he wasn't already registered to vote, Fowler could not get an ID card.

Bruce Heller hobbles into the photo line, after a painful wait to get his documents in order.

"When he called my number, over on the other side, I couldn't even get out of my chair."

It's nearly noon and Shirley Montgomery emerges from one line- and moves straight to another.

Getting a photo ID will cost Shirley and the others about four-and-a-half hours, from pick-up in Pottstown, to arrival back home.

This experience leads us to ask, could you afford to take half a day away from your job or family to get a new ID?


Anyone who think this isn't disgusting should DIAF.
 
2012-10-02 01:03:25 PM

5monkeys: You sir, are arrogant. That you would believe I am naive to the way people work around the system is insulting. Pointing out how these people don't pay taxes as a way to validate their inability to vote is ridiculous. So what if they have a job that pays under the table. Then let them use the money that they should have paid in taxes to get an ID. This is America 2012, having an ID is not a difficult thing to aquire. All excuses aside they were given time to get one if they want to vote. Stop making excuses for people.


www.geekosystem.com
Well trolled.
 
2012-10-02 01:03:53 PM
About half the people in my grandmother's building (an independent-living place for seniors in Pennsylvania,) didn't have an up-to-date photo ID last month. Most had driver's licenses that had expired after they quit driving, some older ladies never learned to drive at all (up until lately public transit was more than adequate, and a lot of the widows had husbands who drove, which was enough in their day,) and some, mainly from rural areas, had never had one. It just worked out that way.

The DMV is not on any of the bus lines and is nearly forty minutes away by car. They have a shuttle service that takes them to doctors' appointments, but with a five-story building of senior citizens, you pretty much have to book that two weeks in advance. The little town has exactly three taxicabs, one of which has been down because the driver just had a baby, and a lot of the residents don't have family locally to get them out there. Things did not look good, and after Republican politicians admitted it was going to help Romney, a number of my Grandma's friends found themselves contemplating a party change.

Luckily, my grandmother is one of those ladies who's good at organizing things and still fairly well-known in the community. She had my little brother drive her to our old high school and asked if any of the students would be interested in a community-service project. (They need 200 community-service hours to graduate and you need 50 hours of supervised driving with a permit to get a license in PA.) She persuaded the Civics teacher to offer class credit, convinced the principal to excuse participants from classes and set up a schedule whereby students could be excused for part of a school day to drive seniors to get their IDs. I live too far away now to come and help, so I sent Grandma a check to help with the gas money and my brother traded shifts at work so he could drive Grandma's friends as well -partly because he's a loyal grandson, but mainly because the ladies at the building made a huge amount of delicious food for the three-day affair and bachelors would gladly attend the opening of a can of tennis balls if Grandma and her posse were cooking.

Most of the juniors and senior students with cars and a few who borrowed their parents' participated, more for the time off school than anything else, and Grandma reported with great pride that all twenty-seven eighteen-year-olds in the senior class are now registered to vote. (It isn't a very big school.) And even though these senior citizens' polling place is within walking distance (at the fire department,) the students have offered to return in November to give rides again, which is wonderful for all the ones with arthritis and replacement-hips and whatnot who'd been trudging out the half-mile year after year. The program was so successful that Grandma and a few of the other seniors who still drive, but not at night, are working to get licensed and open a AAA-approved traffic school, so the next crop of high-school kids can learn safe driving and the seniors can all get rides to the movies and such in the evenings.

"It's a bad law, Spidey," she told me, "but even if they reverse it, as well they should, I'm a little glad they passed it. Would you believe some of those children have been coming back just to spend time with us?"

So yeah. The vagaries of party politics, assumed fraud and miscellaneous kerfuffle are no match for my Grandma.
 
2012-10-02 01:04:08 PM

Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?


Because helping people out makes them part of the needy 47% that vote for Fartbama. Far better to reenact defacto poll taxes in any way, shape or form.
 
2012-10-02 01:04:30 PM
I vote by mail, so I'm getting a kick...
 
2012-10-02 01:04:45 PM

hetheeme: Good to know that they can commit fraud just long enough to let Obama win the state one last time.


"Voter Fraud" is like "Satanism" back in the 80
s and 90's. It doesn't REALY exist, but the truly stupid out there panic and shiat their drawers every time it grows up.

Good thing you're ot one of those stupid people, right?
 
2012-10-02 01:04:54 PM

Giltric: Even the electoral map will show you blue areas in the inner city...where these people live...and red everywhere else.


This is false.

They'll show you blue areas in the inner city, and blue areas in the rich city suburbs. Rural areas are red.
 
2012-10-02 01:05:12 PM

Giltric: coeyagi: B) It wasn't a study - it was me crunching the numbers. Very simple - find electoral college results, compare to national educational rankings, average blue and red states. You can draw your own conclusions, I was just pointing out facts. Also, while the NY example might be true, do you think it would occur like that in every state or a bunch of states that went blue? Please.

Link

A group that historically votes democrat 98% of the time does terrible in school....so extrapolating from that it imust the republicans who bring up the states average....yes?

Even the electoral map will show you blue areas in the inner city...where these people live...and red everywhere else.


I see that was one link for one state. Obviously that means nothing, obviously. Since neither of us can provide definitive proof, to each his own. All I know is that one side refutes Science, the other doesn't. Based on that alone, I am going with the party that is not the Goddamn Obtuse People (GOP).
 
2012-10-02 01:05:28 PM

mr lawson: Lionel Mandrake: and risking being caught - just to tip local elections? Please, give me examples.

and how..pray i ask...under the current system, "risk being caught?"

There is no risk right now.


Apparently, you've never met any illegal immigrants. The vast majority lay very low and rarely go anywhere or do anything out of their own circle.

Beyond that, you, and everyone else, have yet to convince me there is a problem.

So far, the voter fraud I've seen has not been in-person/at-the-booth fraud, but behind the scenes - claiming that you can only register certain voters or only one party or dumping stacks of (Democratic) applications in the dump.

Before I am ever convinced that OMG FRAUD WE MUST ACT NOW!!1! I need to see evidence that there is a problem. Otherwise, we can discuss and implement an outreach to identify those who would be disenfranchised and make a good faith effort to get them IDs at no cost.

THIS IS NOT A PANIC SITUATION
 
2012-10-02 01:05:53 PM
Joe Blowme:so you are all for applying the same checks on voting as they do on guns? Got it.

Let me state it succinctly for you:

[Many] Republicans argue against greater gun control (including more stringent ID requirements) because they view it as an unjust restriction on a Constitutional right.

[These specific] Republicans argue for more stringent ID requirements on voting because it would help them win elections, even though it can be viewed as an unjust restriction on a Constitutional right..

That is hypocrisy. My feelings on whether we should have voter ID laws or not are irrelevant to that. But thank you for avoiding the issue entirely, it helps me with ensure that I give your opinion the appropriate weight and merit.

I do support ID requirements for voting. I do not support implementing them in the manner in which they are attempting to implement them - i.e., in a lead-up to a very divisive federal election. I do not support the implementation of any changes in voting requirements or process that could potentially disenfranchise voters in a major federal election that would occur within the next calendar year.
 
2012-10-02 01:05:55 PM

xaratherus: Only one of those is a Constitutionally-guaranteed right - and the party that predominantly supports voter ID law (Republican) has a history of fighting fervently against the gun control laws that require you to go through a thorough identification process and background checks before purchasing a firearm.

And that is hypocrisy, plain and simple.



Getting a marriage license isn't a constitutionally guaranteed right?
 
2012-10-02 01:06:17 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: The guy who thinks google search results equal evidence is concerned, you guys.


So 7-20 million potential illegal votes does not concern you at all?
 
2012-10-02 01:07:05 PM

Marine1: justtray: Marine1: Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:

But, but, poor people never do any of that...

You were already told that ID is not a requirement for nearly all of those things, but you've chosen to ignore it with delfections. No one is going to take you seriously if you keep up your barriers to fact. The FACTS are IDs are not a legal requirement to nearly ALL of those listed. Address the point directly, or discontinue this meritless line or argument. Or just become fully ignored like I'm sure most people have you already set to.

Actually, I gave you several examples for that stuff... so... you're the meritless one.


RyogaM: theknuckler_33: Election workers will still be allowed to ask voters for a valid photo ID, but people without it can vote on a regular voting machine in the polling place and would not have to cast a provisional ballot or prove their identity to election officials after the election.

So, do I refuse to show my ID if I am asked?

Marine1: Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.

You don't need ID to rent an apartment, or purchase tobacco or alcohol. If the renter is willing to take your word for it who you are, or, if the rented property is under someone else's name, you'd not need ID. If the alcohol and tobacco sellers are willing to sell to you without an ID, because they know you or believe you are old enough to purchase those products, you can do so without ID. Poor people may take public transport of rely on biking or friends to get them places, neither requires ID. If I get a paycheck in my name, I can endorse it over to someone else who has a bank account, who would be able to cash the check. The poor also do a lot of underground, paid by cash, work. 

I voted in my first four presidential elections without ID. Also, a whole bunch of off-year and primary voting elections, too.


Welcome to the ignore list Marine1. You should feel embarrassed for how stupid you looked in this thread today. Now a lot of people will never hear anything you have to say again because of it.
 
2012-10-02 01:07:16 PM
Voter fraud - now available to everyone.
 
2012-10-02 01:07:59 PM

Joe Blowme: Valid photo identification is required for the things that follow:

So the people without id to vote never do any of these thigs either, right?


Let's edit, shall we? Strikethrough on stuff that's wrong, stuff that doesn't apply to poor people deleted outright.

adopt a pet Depends on from where. Getting a dog from the "free puppies" ad in the classified won't require one.
purchase a gun Not via private sale. It may be required in theory in some places, but not in practice.
obtain a bank account Well, this one is marginally true. Since 9/11, it's required, though there are a lot of acceptable IDs for a bank account that aren't acceptable for voting, under most of these laws. Like a student ID.
obtain a credit card You're kidding, right?
write a check
make a credit card purchase
Have you ever used a credit card before? Yes, theoretically they can ask for one, but it never happens in practice. And there are lots of places where you swipe it yourself, and no ID could ever be checked.
apply for a loan to purchase anything Nope, a SS Card, a bill with your address on it, so on and so forth. You can use forms of ID not valid for voting.
to prove your age True, but not always necessary. If you're old enough and buying with cash, nobody's going to ask your age.
to get married; to receive a marriage license A little redundant, don't you think? And you can get by without a photo ID valid for voting under these laws.
to get medical care No. Especially if you're using the emergency room as primary care.
to get a job Uh, no. A photo ID is useful, but not mandatory. And there's this thing known as the "informal sector" where people get paid in cash. It's still a job.
to get a post office box They accept numerous non photo IDs- including a Voter Registration card.
to cash a paycheck Not if you have a bank account- which, as we've established, doesn't require a photo ID, especially if you've had one since before the law toughening the security on them. I don't know how payday lenders work.
rent an apartment Nien. They'll take non photo IDs if you have the money. Many places may not even require that.
receive welfare Proof of residency is required. A bill suffices, you don't even need a non photo ID.
receive social security As above.
receive food stamps You need to verify identity. Pay stub, bill, hell, they can even call and talk to shelter workers if you're living on the streets.
buy cigarettes You have to be 18. If you're obviously above that, you're not often asked to show ID.
buy alcohol You have to be 21. If you're obviously above that, you're not often asked to show ID.
buy a bus ticket No. Not anywhere close. I've taken the bus a few times, both for long distance and for local routes. I have never been asked for any form of ID, and I have never seen anybody else present any.
buy a cell phone Prepaid phones sure as hell don't require one. They just require cash at the register.
buy any antihistimine
go in to a casino You have to meet an age requirement, not an ID requirement. There's a difference.
go in to a bar Again, age requirement, and not every bar (not many, really) checks IDs at the door.
have your water turned on
have your electricity turned on
have your cable turned on
have your gas turned on
obtain trash pick up service
pick up a package from the post office
pick up a package from fed ex
pick up a package from ups
Non photo ids, or photo IDs that aren't acceptable for voting, are fine in most all cases. And very few people pick up a package from these places, they usually leave them at your front door.
pick up a prescription
At my pharmacy, you walk up and ask for it, then you pay (or bill it to your account) and walk out. No ID required.


Basically, your list is completely wrong. There are a hell of a lot of people who manage to live without photo ID, and the fact that you can't recognize that not everyone lives the same way you do does not speak well of your mental ability.
 
2012-10-02 01:08:47 PM

Lionel Mandrake: THIS IS NOT A PANIC SITUATION


Well, unless you're panicked that your candidate is about to get shellacked
 
2012-10-02 01:08:56 PM
To the Derpers:


Prove that illegals and dead people were voting illegally in the Penn. elections, and I'll stand with you.
 
2012-10-02 01:09:53 PM

Mercutio74: jabelar: The US has got to be the only Western democracies that doesn't require ID to vote. It is really asinine that you wouldn't. I'm as liberal as they come, and grew up in Canada, and even those commies hosers require ID.

Actually, that's not true.

http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=ind e x&lang=e

All you need is a fellow elector who knows you to vouch for you and swear an oath.


Actually in Canada, if you have your voter registration card, you don't need ID and you get your registration card in the mail without presenting ID. Effectively, if you don't have a mail box you need ID but It doesn't have to be photo ID. When you vote, you name is scratched off of a list so it is impossible for two votes to be placed against the same name. Very simple process and a very solid paper trail is left of who voted from what address.
 
2012-10-02 01:09:54 PM
OOps, did I drop this here?
Citizens United ruling accounts for 78 percent of 2012 election spending

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/24/citizens-united-ruling-accounts - for-78-percent-of-2012-election-spending/

Is this your idea of a free and honest election?
Peeps, we float down a river of chit in a leaky canoe.
And ya'll pick up one turd and declare it offends thee.
 
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