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(The New York Times)   The U.S. is abandoning hope for a peace deal with the Taliban. Fark: The U.S. had hope for a peace deal with the Taliban   (nytimes.com) divider line 34
    More: Asinine, Taliban, American troops, combat operations, peace, David Petraeus, McChrystal  
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2457 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 12:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-02 12:30:15 PM  
3 votes:
www.handgunclub.com

We should air drop millions of these things with 50 rounds each attached. They were excellent for killing Nazi occupiers and sympathizers.

They won't shoot down a helicopter or blow up a tank but they will put a nice hole in the back of a Taliban noggin at a market or mosque. Close up. Just like the Taliban like it.

Make it impossible for the Taliban to mix with the locals.
2012-10-02 02:01:28 PM  
2 votes:

vudukungfu: Fark those motherfarking motherfarkers all to hell and piss on the ashes.
ANyone making a deal with them is a traitor, and a treasonous bastard, and should be hanged by the farking neck until dead, dead, dead.

FARK YOU FOR MAKING DEALS WITH THE TALIBAN, mother farkers.!!


Remind me again which country created the Taliban (or "brave Mujihadeen allies", as they were known then) to put one over the Russians.
2012-10-02 01:43:46 PM  
2 votes:
Alonjar

..Do you think the V.C was the same guys during the end of the war as in 65?? You are not fighting against a particular set of men. You are fighting against an idea. We spent 10 years dropping more tonnage on Vietnam than all of WW2 combined, destroying their jungles, and killing lots of civilians. We didn't win. We're not going to win here. They don't want what we have to sell them. It's really that simple. And as bad as the Taliban is, I would rather see that money going to help people over here like my friend with PTSD from Ramadi. Or the old guy that can't get medical care....
2012-10-02 01:37:53 PM  
2 votes:

Biness: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: [www.handgunclub.com image 500x329]

We should air drop millions of these things with 50 rounds each attached. They were excellent for killing Nazi occupiers and sympathizers.

They won't shoot down a helicopter or blow up a tank but they will put a nice hole in the back of a Taliban noggin at a market or mosque. Close up. Just like the Taliban like it.

Make it impossible for the Taliban to mix with the locals.

What happened the last time the US govt started handing out guns?


I think that's what put the Taliban in power in the first place.
2012-10-02 01:21:07 PM  
2 votes:

DaCaptain19: One nuclear bomb each in the capital of these countries:

Iran
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Saudi Arabia
Syria
ANY country with an Islamic ruling party.
How about ALL countries in the middle east save Israel.

And North Korea just for sh*ts and giggles.



You sound Christian.
2012-10-02 12:51:53 PM  
2 votes:
Thing is, it's a bit naive to just paint all the insurgents and Taliban as one blanket evil organization. A lot of them are fighting because they just hate all outsiders, not because they believe in the ideology in particular.
2012-10-02 12:40:47 PM  
2 votes:

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: [www.handgunclub.com image 500x329]

We should air drop millions of these things with 50 rounds each attached. They were excellent for killing Nazi occupiers and sympathizers.

They won't shoot down a helicopter or blow up a tank but they will put a nice hole in the back of a Taliban noggin at a market or mosque. Close up. Just like the Taliban like it.

Make it impossible for the Taliban to mix with the locals.


What happened the last time the US govt started handing out guns?
2012-10-02 12:32:03 PM  
2 votes:
I can't imagine anyone held any true hope of negotiating peace with the Taliban, but I'm glad it was attempted. I understand the necessities of war, but that doesn't mean peace isn't worth pursuing, even with a group like the Taliban.
2012-10-02 11:49:22 AM  
2 votes:
For your tl;dr needs: How Insurgencies End (RAND, Press release.)
2012-10-02 09:25:10 PM  
1 votes:
US Fatalities due to Hostile Action in Afghanistan under George W. Bush, October 2001 - January 2009 (88 months): 424

US Fatalities due to Hostile Action in Afghanistan under Barack Obama, February 2009 - September 2012 (44 months): 1,269

So, Obama had us surge into Afghanistan, got three times as many Americans killed by the Taliban in half as much time . . . and utterly failed to achieve anything.

Kinda reminds me of his economic stimulus package, only this time he wasted lives instead of just money.
2012-10-02 05:17:53 PM  
1 votes:

machoprogrammer: You do know how the Taliban formed, right? It had nothing to do with the US support.

tl;dr version of the history:
- Soviets invade Afghanistan and install puppet government
- Afghani (and other neighboring country residents) Mujihadeen start to fight back
- US, disliking the commies, helped the Mujihadeen out
- Soviets proceed to leave after the guerrilla warfare.
- US decides to stop the support and hightail it out of there
- Afghanistan turns into a lawless region, ruled by local warlords
- One asshole warlord proceeded to kidnap some local young boys and keep them as sex slaves
- Mullah Omar heard about it and recruited some locals, and proceeded to free the boys and kill the warlord
- They proceeded to gain power and you know the rest.


tl;dr of your tl;dr

- US armed fundamentalists in successful attempt to overthrow Afghan government
- Armed fundamentalists formed new Afghan government
2012-10-02 03:58:55 PM  
1 votes:

Danger Mouse: That's that Mujahideen. The Taliban didn't exist for anotehr 10 years.


www.monitorcreative.co.uk
2012-10-02 02:55:45 PM  
1 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: Because stoning rape victims and not allowing girls an education is the same as asking your government not to spend money at a rate that requires borrowing $.40 on the dollar?


No, but forcing a rape victim to bear the child her rapist "helped" her conceive - against the woman's wishes - is condemning her to a lifetime of being reminded how little power she actually has over her body. Rape being a crime of power, that's a fate worse than death. Hyperbolic? Maybe, but it's true.

"Not allowing girls an education" is a preferable position to "not allowing anyone a decent education", actually. Not that I'd support choosing Muhamad al-Taqib as Secretary of Education, but neither would I support Falwell's kid.

"Asking your government to spend at a rate that requires borrowing" is not, in itself, a bad policy. How long that borrowing window will last, why we need to borrow (is it to buy Maseratis for the Executive branch, or are we rejiggering a healthcare system that represents 15-20% of GDP and fixing to add some 30 million people to that system?), and what we're spending on seem like important issues.

Is it overly reductive reasoning? Yup. Does the nuance of the statement reveal the intent behind it (namely, that both the Taliban and the Tea Party represent social moves backward)? Also yup.

You want people to stop comparing the Tea Party to the Taliban? Stop the Tea Party from favoring laws based on the same reasoning (my holy book/religious culture says so!).
2012-10-02 02:46:01 PM  
1 votes:

FlippityFlap: The entire Iraq/Afghanistan debacle makes Gallipoli look like a masterpiece of strategic planning. Over-confidence, delusional thinking, hubris, religious nut-baggery. The U.S. military has it all in spades... taking a military designed to fight the Soviets to an insurgency has worked Oh So well the last 50 years.....Let's keep trying and see if we win THIS time.......lol....800 dollar a gallon gas/ billions spent on air-condition...If you think of all the positive actions that could have been taken to help our country, it's enough to make you sick.


To be fair, the current model doesn't have to win to be successful. It has to be a moneymaker for certain parties to be successful. And, boy howdy, has it been successful.
2012-10-02 02:09:42 PM  
1 votes:
FTFA: "American officials say they hope that the Taliban will find the Afghan Army a more formidable adversary than they expect and be compelled, in the years after NATO withdraws, to come to terms with what they now dismiss as a "puppet" government."

The Taliban have already kicked the USSR's sorry butt all the way to Moscow and are in the process of kicking the USA's sorry butt all the way to Washington. The Afghan army - a rag tag group put together to defend the despotic ruler of a country nobody believes in - are going to be more formidable than either the Russkies or the Yanks? In whose dreams?
2012-10-02 02:07:27 PM  
1 votes:

orbister: vudukungfu: Fark those motherfarking motherfarkers all to hell and piss on the ashes.
ANyone making a deal with them is a traitor, and a treasonous bastard, and should be hanged by the farking neck until dead, dead, dead.

FARK YOU FOR MAKING DEALS WITH THE TALIBAN, mother farkers.!!

Remind me again which country created the Taliban (or "brave Mujihadeen allies", as they were known then) to put one over the Russians.


You can't reason with the "kill them all" crowd, and they are unable to imagine the consequences of the type of action they want taken.
2012-10-02 01:59:02 PM  
1 votes:

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: We should air drop millions of these things with 50 rounds each attached. They were excellent for killing Nazi occupiers and sympathizers. ... Make it impossible for the Taliban to mix with the locals.


Your cunning plan might have a little more chance of working if the Taliban weren't locals and if the NATO forces (including the US) weren't the detested occupying invaders.
2012-10-02 01:53:43 PM  
1 votes:

FlippityFlap: Alonjar

..Do you think the V.C was the same guys during the end of the war as in 65?? You are not fighting against a particular set of men. You are fighting against an idea. We spent 10 years dropping more tonnage on Vietnam than all of WW2 combined, destroying their jungles, and killing lots of civilians. We didn't win. We're not going to win here. They don't want what we have to sell them. It's really that simple. And as bad as the Taliban is, I would rather see that money going to help people over here like my friend with PTSD from Ramadi. Or the old guy that can't get medical care....


We cannot win in Afghanistan unless we annex the country and move there permanently and make it a US protectorate and even then we won't "win." The only time Afghanistan was ever conquered was by Ghengis Khan, when it was Khwarezm, and HE only defeated it by razing the country literally to the ground from end to end. Alexander the Great couldn't do it, the British Empire couldn't do it, the USSR couldn't do it. Like all small countries, Afghanistan wins by not winning: They know that sooner or later, the occupiers will leave, and they will still be there.

The Taliban is not going to magically become a democratic government, and the people are not magically going to convert to Protestantism; they're not going to suddenly begin treating their women like human beings and allowing free speech. Change like that happens from within, not without. The best thing we can do at this point is withdraw the military presence, and attempt to maintain at least a frigid relationship with whoever winds up being in charge--better still, let China establish diplomatic relations with them, and allow capitalism to come in through the back door via Chinese business. But staying there because the Taliban is going to be so bad is ridiculous. The longer we stay, the worse the Taliban or their successors are going to be.
2012-10-02 01:40:22 PM  
1 votes:

clyph: GBB: There is no peace with a group that is told that you MUST die because you do not believe what they do.

Wait, are we talking about the Taliban or the Tea Party?


Wait, I think that's the Bill Ayers wing of the Democrat party.

People, leave other people alone. If they're not committing violence upon you, not taking your stuff, nor doing that to anyone else, then what they do, what they say, how they believe, who they fark, how they earn their living, is no business of yours.

There are very few that are the boogieman you think they are. Not Democrats, not Republicans, not the Tea Partiers, not the Chinese, not even Iranians. 99.99% of all of them are just folks.

That last 0.01% are the bastards in every group, and they'll tell you they are, right to your face and rely on you to not believe they're that serious. Their common refrain is "We will use the power of the state to make them (you) better." They'll kill, maim, steal and go to bed with a clear conscience because they did good that day, up to their hips in your blood. Not literally, however, as they'll hire someone else to do it for them. This group is the threat to everyone, and they're IN YOUR FACTION and they're probably IN CHARGE. Clean your own houses.
2012-10-02 01:30:31 PM  
1 votes:
Nonsense. Nobody wants to keep fighting, not even the Taliban. While rids a society of young bachelors and leaves more poon for the ruling class, it is expensive and messy business. The Taliban wants what most of the Fundy Muslim world wants: (1) Complete Muslim ownership of their holy places; and (2) no corrupting Western influences in their communities.

The first one's a problem because one of their holy places is currently owned by Israel, which is why they hate The Jew. And the Jew ain't goin' anywhere. There's almost as many here in the US as there are in Israel. That, plus our corporate interests in the ME will ensure the US supports them as an ally. Not really sure what can be "negotiated" about that.

As for the second item, We can have Vegas and Manhattan and Swingin' Berlin and Sexy Paris and Red Light Amsterdam all we want, so long as we don't try to colonize their communities with our lingerie stores and corporate field offices. Those bring our degenerate whore women walking around with skin showing. OK, that's a problem since they DO like our money and want our construction and petroleum companies to come do stuff and since we have the laws permitting women to work and What Not, the women will show up.

The solution is to bite the bullet, say goodbye to their business, and divest from those countries. They want to be left alone? fark 'em, leave 'em alone. I guaran-dam-tee you they won't be coming here to cause trouble. Their nationals who come to Europe and N. America are the progressives of their societies, not the hard-boiled Fundies. And they're just here to buy the shiat they can't get at home, them slink back, sated and guilty. It's like the odd Evangelical who gets caught in the whore-house, not representative of the main body of believers who just want to be left alone to oppress their women and delude their children.

But that's not our problem. No, it isn't.

Ehh, this seemed simpler when I started thinking of this post.
2012-10-02 01:28:56 PM  
1 votes:
The entire Iraq/Afghanistan debacle makes Gallipoli look like a masterpiece of strategic planning. Over-confidence, delusional thinking, hubris, religious nut-baggery. The U.S. military has it all in spades... taking a military designed to fight the Soviets to an insurgency has worked Oh So well the last 50 years.....Let's keep trying and see if we win THIS time.......lol....800 dollar a gallon gas/ billions spent on air-condition...If you think of all the positive actions that could have been taken to help our country, it's enough to make you sick.
2012-10-02 01:17:23 PM  
1 votes:
Peace with the Taliban means giving up control of the Heroin trade. The MIC is not going to willingly give up such a lucrative business. Therefore we will always be at war with Eastasia.
2012-10-02 12:53:23 PM  
1 votes:
Those of you that think the Tea Party is equivalent to the Taliban, ought to go spend some time with the latter. You know, for perspective. Bring your wife and any daughters you might have.


/morons
2012-10-02 12:49:15 PM  
1 votes:

GBB: There is no peace with a group that is told that you MUST die because you do not believe what they do.


Wait, are we talking about the Taliban or the Tea Party?
2012-10-02 12:45:06 PM  
1 votes:
I do not care whether Afghanistan is ruled by benevolent socialist rainbow unicorns, or Beelzebub himself. The Afghan people deserve whatever government they can tolerate, and evidently a lot of them can tolerate the Taliban. Lets respect their choice and leave the country. Once they don't have american convoys to shoot at, they'll revert to shooting each other, which is about the best you can hope for in that country.
2012-10-02 12:44:25 PM  
1 votes:
Why not Subby? We had peace with them before. Heck, we helped them seize power in the first place. We were BFFs for a long time.

Now we're all buddy-buddy with the people we helped depose in favor of the Taliban. Suddenly, international politics sounds really high school clique-ish.
2012-10-02 12:43:04 PM  
1 votes:
Only the people of Afghanistan can defeat the Taliban. What we can do is provide a little material support and a big push toward that goal. There are times when I wonder which is needed more.
2012-10-02 12:41:33 PM  
1 votes:

clyph: Perducci: Maybe once the Republicans win the next election they can approach the Taliban.

"Look, we're all extremists here. You hate gays? WE hate gays? You love shootin' guns? WE love shootin' guns! You think women need to know their place? Hey! So do we! People of a different race frighten and confuse you? Guess what.... Yup! Us too! So, c'mon, even though you believe in some funny Muhammed-y stuff and haven't discovered Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Amen Amen Amen, we can all get along, right? We want the same things, you just have some silly beliefs about a big black cube thing. We can overlook that. Hey, by the way, what do you think about Mexicans? We might have a job for you."

So much THIS. The only difference between the GOP and the Taliban is which invisible sky wizard they pray to and what they can get away with doing. The only reason the christaliban aren't stoning loose women and blowing up religious icons of other faiths is that they can't get away with it (yet).


Seriously? You hate one political party this much that you think, given the chance, they would act like the Taliban?

Give it a rest. Seriously. Or go live in a country where oppression actually exists.

/not a Republican
2012-10-02 12:33:06 PM  
1 votes:
Wipe them out.... all of them.
2012-10-02 12:30:29 PM  
1 votes:

Perducci: Maybe once the Republicans win the next election they can approach the Taliban.

"Look, we're all extremists here. You hate gays? WE hate gays? You love shootin' guns? WE love shootin' guns! You think women need to know their place? Hey! So do we! People of a different race frighten and confuse you? Guess what.... Yup! Us too! So, c'mon, even though you believe in some funny Muhammed-y stuff and haven't discovered Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Amen Amen Amen, we can all get along, right? We want the same things, you just have some silly beliefs about a big black cube thing. We can overlook that. Hey, by the way, what do you think about Mexicans? We might have a job for you."


either mind blowingly dumb or a 0/10 troll effort
2012-10-02 12:29:21 PM  
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: cant reason with a death cult


Al Qaeda was the death cult. The Taliban was just their buddies -- all they aspired to was to rule Afghanistan with an iron fist.
2012-10-02 12:29:09 PM  
1 votes:

Biness: bring them home. fark it.


yep. especially now that the taliban has infiltrated the afghani police force. imagine training some guy and he turns around and opens up.
2012-10-02 12:28:54 PM  
1 votes:
Maybe once the Republicans win the next election they can approach the Taliban.

"Look, we're all extremists here. You hate gays? WE hate gays? You love shootin' guns? WE love shootin' guns! You think women need to know their place? Hey! So do we! People of a different race frighten and confuse you? Guess what.... Yup! Us too! So, c'mon, even though you believe in some funny Muhammed-y stuff and haven't discovered Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Amen Amen Amen, we can all get along, right? We want the same things, you just have some silly beliefs about a big black cube thing. We can overlook that. Hey, by the way, what do you think about Mexicans? We might have a job for you."
2012-10-02 12:26:24 PM  
1 votes:
bring them home. fark it.
 
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