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(The New York Times)   The U.S. is abandoning hope for a peace deal with the Taliban. Fark: The U.S. had hope for a peace deal with the Taliban   (nytimes.com) divider line 124
    More: Asinine, Taliban, American troops, combat operations, peace, David Petraeus, McChrystal  
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2460 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 12:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



124 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-10-02 11:49:22 AM  
For your tl;dr needs: How Insurgencies End (RAND, Press release.)
 
2012-10-02 12:22:30 PM  
cant reason with a death cult
 
2012-10-02 12:25:26 PM  
Talibanis... I hate these guys...
 
2012-10-02 12:25:53 PM  

Joe Blowme: cant reason with a death cult


Exactly. But anyway, this will all be over once the Revelations goes down.
 
2012-10-02 12:26:04 PM  
Time to bring in the Ivans.
 
2012-10-02 12:26:24 PM  
bring them home. fark it.
 
2012-10-02 12:28:54 PM  
Maybe once the Republicans win the next election they can approach the Taliban.

"Look, we're all extremists here. You hate gays? WE hate gays? You love shootin' guns? WE love shootin' guns! You think women need to know their place? Hey! So do we! People of a different race frighten and confuse you? Guess what.... Yup! Us too! So, c'mon, even though you believe in some funny Muhammed-y stuff and haven't discovered Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Amen Amen Amen, we can all get along, right? We want the same things, you just have some silly beliefs about a big black cube thing. We can overlook that. Hey, by the way, what do you think about Mexicans? We might have a job for you."
 
2012-10-02 12:29:09 PM  

Biness: bring them home. fark it.


yep. especially now that the taliban has infiltrated the afghani police force. imagine training some guy and he turns around and opens up.
 
2012-10-02 12:29:21 PM  

Joe Blowme: cant reason with a death cult


Al Qaeda was the death cult. The Taliban was just their buddies -- all they aspired to was to rule Afghanistan with an iron fist.
 
2012-10-02 12:29:49 PM  
In November when Obama is re-elected all of this will magically straighten itself out and we'll all be good.
No worries.
Everyone in the military will come home in 2014, we can draw down U.S. forces overall and ever thing will be honkey-dorey in the Middle East.
Shait, get the president another Nobel Peace Prize STAT!!
 
2012-10-02 12:30:15 PM  
www.handgunclub.com

We should air drop millions of these things with 50 rounds each attached. They were excellent for killing Nazi occupiers and sympathizers.

They won't shoot down a helicopter or blow up a tank but they will put a nice hole in the back of a Taliban noggin at a market or mosque. Close up. Just like the Taliban like it.

Make it impossible for the Taliban to mix with the locals.
 
2012-10-02 12:30:29 PM  

Perducci: Maybe once the Republicans win the next election they can approach the Taliban.

"Look, we're all extremists here. You hate gays? WE hate gays? You love shootin' guns? WE love shootin' guns! You think women need to know their place? Hey! So do we! People of a different race frighten and confuse you? Guess what.... Yup! Us too! So, c'mon, even though you believe in some funny Muhammed-y stuff and haven't discovered Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Amen Amen Amen, we can all get along, right? We want the same things, you just have some silly beliefs about a big black cube thing. We can overlook that. Hey, by the way, what do you think about Mexicans? We might have a job for you."


either mind blowingly dumb or a 0/10 troll effort
 
2012-10-02 12:32:03 PM  
I can't imagine anyone held any true hope of negotiating peace with the Taliban, but I'm glad it was attempted. I understand the necessities of war, but that doesn't mean peace isn't worth pursuing, even with a group like the Taliban.
 
2012-10-02 12:33:06 PM  
Wipe them out.... all of them.
 
2012-10-02 12:34:10 PM  

Perducci: Maybe once the Republicans win the next election they can approach the Taliban.

"Look, we're all extremists here. You hate gays? WE hate gays? You love shootin' guns? WE love shootin' guns! You think women need to know their place? Hey! So do we! People of a different race frighten and confuse you? Guess what.... Yup! Us too! So, c'mon, even though you believe in some funny Muhammed-y stuff and haven't discovered Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Amen Amen Amen, we can all get along, right? We want the same things, you just have some silly beliefs about a big black cube thing. We can overlook that. Hey, by the way, what do you think about Mexicans? We might have a job for you."


So much THIS. The only difference between the GOP and the Taliban is which invisible sky wizard they pray to and what they can get away with doing. The only reason the christaliban aren't stoning loose women and blowing up religious icons of other faiths is that they can't get away with it (yet).
 
2012-10-02 12:34:14 PM  
Hoping for a deal isn't as crazy as it sounds.
Pakistan has long had essentially the same deal we were pursuing with essentially the same people: you live how you want in your villages, we'll live how we want in our cities and we'll both leave each other alone. It's realistically the best avenue to stability in the near term.

Trick is we've farked up enough that there are plenty of sympathizers in the cities who want the US gone more than they want the Taliban to stop throwing acid in schoolgirl's faces.
And when you're on the losing end of that comparison: it's past time to leave. You've lost. If we insist on waiting out GWB's time-table, at least pull back to the bases and hand over day-to-day security. Let the CIA/drones do their thing if you must, but certainly stop the charade that we're providing peace in any measure. Hell, at the point that we don't even run joint patrols anymore for fear of Afghani recruits opening fire on their US counterparts, the idea that our presence is making anything more safe is absurd on its face.
 
2012-10-02 12:34:43 PM  

Crushinator: Wipe them out.... all of them.


Exactly.
Fark those motherfarking motherfarkers all to hell and piss on the ashes.
ANyone making a deal with them is a traitor, and a treasonous bastard, and should be hanged by the farking neck until dead, dead, dead.

FARK YOU FOR MAKING DEALS WITH THE TALIBAN, mother farkers.!!
 
2012-10-02 12:35:33 PM  
fark those stupid, violent sons of biatches.

carpet bomb that shiat hole into oblivion and be done with it. farking shiat.
 
2012-10-02 12:35:51 PM  

geek_mars: I can't imagine anyone held any true hope of negotiating peace with the Taliban, but I'm glad it was attempted. I understand the necessities of war, but that doesn't mean peace isn't worth pursuing, even with a group like the Taliban.


www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk
We shall have peace in our time.

Not disagreeing with your sentiment, but there can be no discussion with the taliban. There can be no peace between freedom and despotism. The trouble is we never fought this war with an eye towards winning it.
 
GBB
2012-10-02 12:36:12 PM  

geek_mars: I can't imagine anyone held any true hope of negotiating peace with the Taliban, but I'm glad it was attempted. I understand the necessities of war, but that doesn't mean peace isn't worth pursuing, even with a group like the Taliban.


There is no peace with a group that is told that you MUST die because you do not believe what they do.
 
2012-10-02 12:37:32 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Joe Blowme: cant reason with a death cult

Exactly. But anyway, this will all be over once the Revelations goes down.


Yeahhhhh, like the one Sarah Palin was in? Or GWB?
 
2012-10-02 12:39:27 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs:

Make it impossible for the Taliban to mix with the locals.


Approved. Please proceed.
 
2012-10-02 12:40:09 PM  

Reverend Monkeypants: Rapmaster2000: Joe Blowme: cant reason with a death cult

Exactly. But anyway, this will all be over once the Revelations goes down.

Yeahhhhh, like the one Sarah Palin was in? Or GWB?


I just know that when Jesus returns and all the nonbelievers and Jews are sent to burn for eternity in the Lake of Fire, it's going to be sweet. Almost as sweet as living forever in the sky with Jesus. Won't that be great?

It'll be like going to Church everyday, all day, for eternity! Hallelujah!
 
2012-10-02 12:40:47 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: [www.handgunclub.com image 500x329]

We should air drop millions of these things with 50 rounds each attached. They were excellent for killing Nazi occupiers and sympathizers.

They won't shoot down a helicopter or blow up a tank but they will put a nice hole in the back of a Taliban noggin at a market or mosque. Close up. Just like the Taliban like it.

Make it impossible for the Taliban to mix with the locals.


What happened the last time the US govt started handing out guns?
 
2012-10-02 12:41:33 PM  

clyph: Perducci: Maybe once the Republicans win the next election they can approach the Taliban.

"Look, we're all extremists here. You hate gays? WE hate gays? You love shootin' guns? WE love shootin' guns! You think women need to know their place? Hey! So do we! People of a different race frighten and confuse you? Guess what.... Yup! Us too! So, c'mon, even though you believe in some funny Muhammed-y stuff and haven't discovered Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Amen Amen Amen, we can all get along, right? We want the same things, you just have some silly beliefs about a big black cube thing. We can overlook that. Hey, by the way, what do you think about Mexicans? We might have a job for you."

So much THIS. The only difference between the GOP and the Taliban is which invisible sky wizard they pray to and what they can get away with doing. The only reason the christaliban aren't stoning loose women and blowing up religious icons of other faiths is that they can't get away with it (yet).


Seriously? You hate one political party this much that you think, given the chance, they would act like the Taliban?

Give it a rest. Seriously. Or go live in a country where oppression actually exists.

/not a Republican
 
2012-10-02 12:42:17 PM  
Oblig.

www.legitgov.org
 
2012-10-02 12:42:23 PM  

Biness: Perducci: Maybe once the Republicans win the next election they can approach the Taliban.

"Look, we're all extremists here. You hate gays? WE hate gays? You love shootin' guns? WE love shootin' guns! You think women need to know their place? Hey! So do we! People of a different race frighten and confuse you? Guess what.... Yup! Us too! So, c'mon, even though you believe in some funny Muhammed-y stuff and haven't discovered Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Amen Amen Amen, we can all get along, right? We want the same things, you just have some silly beliefs about a big black cube thing. We can overlook that. Hey, by the way, what do you think about Mexicans? We might have a job for you."

either mind blowingly dumb or a 0/10 troll effort


Got one butthurt republican bite, so it can't be a zero.
 
2012-10-02 12:42:28 PM  

vudukungfu: Crushinator: Wipe them out.... all of them.

Exactly.
Fark those motherfarking motherfarkers all to hell and piss on the ashes.
ANyone making a deal with them is a traitor, and a treasonous bastard, and should be hanged by the farking neck until dead, dead, dead.

FARK YOU FOR MAKING DEALS WITH THE TALIBAN, mother farkers.!!


Well, we'll have to start with the Reagan republicans then.
whitenoiseinsanity.com
/as hot as a radioactive sheet of glass 

But yeah, at this point it's too late. They will always want to tear down civilization now so might as well remove them from the equation.
 
2012-10-02 12:42:41 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: We should air drop millions of these things with 50 rounds each attached. They were excellent for killing Nazi occupiers and sympathizers.


That's a baby browning. While it was the weapon of choice of the French Resistance, it's a bit pricy for a mass air drop. It's also only chambered in .25 ACP.

The weapon you want is the FP-45 Liberator.



The idea of the liberator was to bushwack a natzy and take his gun. Unfortunately they never got distributed in sufficient quantity to make an impact.
 
2012-10-02 12:43:04 PM  
Only the people of Afghanistan can defeat the Taliban. What we can do is provide a little material support and a big push toward that goal. There are times when I wonder which is needed more.
 
2012-10-02 12:44:25 PM  
Why not Subby? We had peace with them before. Heck, we helped them seize power in the first place. We were BFFs for a long time.

Now we're all buddy-buddy with the people we helped depose in favor of the Taliban. Suddenly, international politics sounds really high school clique-ish.
 
2012-10-02 12:44:50 PM  
"Please Log In".

What the fark, Fark?
 
2012-10-02 12:45:06 PM  
I do not care whether Afghanistan is ruled by benevolent socialist rainbow unicorns, or Beelzebub himself. The Afghan people deserve whatever government they can tolerate, and evidently a lot of them can tolerate the Taliban. Lets respect their choice and leave the country. Once they don't have american convoys to shoot at, they'll revert to shooting each other, which is about the best you can hope for in that country.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 12:45:20 PM  
What I got from Joelogon's link is we should destroy Pakistan and Afghanistan will calm down.
 
2012-10-02 12:47:10 PM  
southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com
 
2012-10-02 12:48:45 PM  

stir22: Biness: bring them home. fark it.

yep. especially now that the taliban has infiltrated the afghani police force. imagine training some guy and he turns around and opens up.


Execute Order 66
 
2012-10-02 12:49:15 PM  

GBB: There is no peace with a group that is told that you MUST die because you do not believe what they do.


Wait, are we talking about the Taliban or the Tea Party?
 
2012-10-02 12:49:45 PM  
"One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100 000 who have only interests." -- John Stuart Mill
 
GBB
2012-10-02 12:49:51 PM  

clyph: GBB: There is no peace with a group that is told that you MUST die because you do not believe what they do.

Wait, are we talking about the Taliban or the Tea Party?


There's a difference??
 
2012-10-02 12:50:15 PM  

Reverend Monkeypants: vudukungfu: Crushinator: Wipe them out.... all of them.

Exactly.
Fark those motherfarking motherfarkers all to hell and piss on the ashes.
ANyone making a deal with them is a traitor, and a treasonous bastard, and should be hanged by the farking neck until dead, dead, dead.

FARK YOU FOR MAKING DEALS WITH THE TALIBAN, mother farkers.!!

Well, we'll have to start with the Reagan republicans then.
[whitenoiseinsanity.com image 750x499]
/as hot as a radioactive sheet of glass 

But yeah, at this point it's too late. They will always want to tear down civilization now so might as well remove them from the equation.


IN all fairness. those were the Taliban circa 1985. They were the honorable Taliban. They were fighting against the Red Hoard.

They are all probably long since dead and it's the more recent generations of Taliban that have gone rogue.
 
2012-10-02 12:50:29 PM  

Biness: Perducci: Maybe once the Republicans win the next election they can approach the Taliban.

"Look, we're all extremists here. You hate gays? WE hate gays? You love shootin' guns? WE love shootin' guns! You think women need to know their place? Hey! So do we! People of a different race frighten and confuse you? Guess what.... Yup! Us too! So, c'mon, even though you believe in some funny Muhammed-y stuff and haven't discovered Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Amen Amen Amen, we can all get along, right? We want the same things, you just have some silly beliefs about a big black cube thing. We can overlook that. Hey, by the way, what do you think about Mexicans? We might have a job for you."

either mind blowingly dumb or a 0/10 troll effort


Not a trolling effort, so I guess it's just dumb. Or perhaps a little too close to home? Hillbillies with guns being led by oil barons who spout religious nonsense. Doesn't matter what country they live in.
 
2012-10-02 12:50:43 PM  

Millennium: Only the people of Afghanistan can defeat the Taliban. What we can do is provide a little material support and a big push toward that goal. There are times when I wonder which is needed more.


Just send 'em Peachy and Daniel Dravot. They'll make men out of them.
 
2012-10-02 12:51:16 PM  

Reverend Monkeypants:

Well, we'll have to start with the Reagan republicans then.


Didn't study much history, did ya?
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-02 12:51:53 PM  
Thing is, it's a bit naive to just paint all the insurgents and Taliban as one blanket evil organization. A lot of them are fighting because they just hate all outsiders, not because they believe in the ideology in particular.
 
2012-10-02 12:51:59 PM  
How about a peace deal in the 50 megaton range.
 
2012-10-02 12:52:07 PM  

GBB: Wait, are we talking about the Taliban or the Tea Party?

There's a difference??


One is a group hell-bent on oppressing women, obsessed with superstition, and taking us back nearly to the Stone Age. The other wears towels on their head.
 
2012-10-02 12:53:23 PM  
Those of you that think the Tea Party is equivalent to the Taliban, ought to go spend some time with the latter. You know, for perspective. Bring your wife and any daughters you might have.


/morons
 
2012-10-02 12:53:35 PM  

philthpig: fark those stupid, violent sons of biatches.

carpet bomb that shiat hole into oblivion and be done with it. farking shiat.


Heh, heh. Carpetbomb.
 
2012-10-02 12:58:28 PM  

Biness: geek_mars: I can't imagine anyone held any true hope of negotiating peace with the Taliban, but I'm glad it was attempted. I understand the necessities of war, but that doesn't mean peace isn't worth pursuing, even with a group like the Taliban.

[www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk image 165x247]
We shall have peace in our time.

Not disagreeing with your sentiment, but there can be no discussion with the taliban. There can be no peace between freedom and despotism. The trouble is we never fought this war with an eye towards winning it.


GBB:
There is no peace with a group that is told that you MUST die because you do not believe what they do.

I agree, that's what I meant when I said no one had any real hopes of it working. The thing is, though, is that having tried, despite knowing it was pointless, shows how far we're willing to go, what we're willing to try, to gain peace through diplomacy rather than force of arms.
It's far better to try and justify military action to our allies if we didn't simply say, "Fark it, they're not worth talking with," before we started with the drone strikes. And I don't just mean the illusion of some kind of moral high ground. Negotiating, or attempting to, with the Taliban, despite knowing it's a futile attempt, demonstrates that diplomacy is part of our national culture.
 
2012-10-02 12:58:35 PM  
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

Uuum... Battered Taliban
 
2012-10-02 01:01:32 PM  

geek_mars: Biness: geek_mars: I can't imagine anyone held any true hope of negotiating peace with the Taliban, but I'm glad it was attempted. I understand the necessities of war, but that doesn't mean peace isn't worth pursuing, even with a group like the Taliban.

[www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk image 165x247]
We shall have peace in our time.

Not disagreeing with your sentiment, but there can be no discussion with the taliban. There can be no peace between freedom and despotism. The trouble is we never fought this war with an eye towards winning it.

GBB:
There is no peace with a group that is told that you MUST die because you do not believe what they do.

I agree, that's what I meant when I said no one had any real hopes of it working. The thing is, though, is that having tried, despite knowing it was pointless, shows how far we're willing to go, what we're willing to try, to gain peace through diplomacy rather than force of arms.
It's far better to try and justify military action to our allies if we didn't simply say, "Fark it, they're not worth talking with," before we started with the drone strikes. And I don't just mean the illusion of some kind of moral high ground. Negotiating, or attempting to, with the Taliban, despite knowing it's a futile attempt, demonstrates that diplomacy is part of our national culture.


html-fu fail
 
2012-10-02 01:03:11 PM  

ChipNASA: They are all probably long since dead and it's the more recent generations of Taliban that have gone rogue


So, they are like republicans in that regard.

But still. Kill them all. Burn their corpses, and burn them with pig fat.
then piss on the ashes.
Fark them and their sky wizard all to hell and back.

Ans if you deal with them, you need to be executed for treason.
No farking questions.
 
2012-10-02 01:04:13 PM  

Crushinator: Wipe them out.... all of them.


We should just put up or shut up. One nuclear bomb each in the capital of these countries:

Iran
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Saudi Arabia
Syria
ANY country with an Islamic ruling party.
How about ALL countries in the middle east save Israel.

And North Korea just for sh*ts and giggles.

World War III? Hardly. I mean, who the f*ck is going to war with the U.S. because Tehran was nuked?
 
2012-10-02 01:05:41 PM  

DaCaptain19: Crushinator: Wipe them out.... all of them.

We should just put up or shut up. One nuclear bomb each in the capital of these countries:

Iran
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Saudi Arabia
Syria
ANY country with an Islamic ruling party.
How about ALL countries in the middle east save Israel.

And North Korea just for sh*ts and giggles.

World War III? Hardly. I mean, who the f*ck is going to war with the U.S. because Tehran was nuked?


Save Jordan. They're cool.
 
2012-10-02 01:07:41 PM  
Peace with warring tribes splitting hairs over religious differences? Let me laugh harder.
 
2012-10-02 01:08:25 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: [www.handgunclub.com image 500x329]

We should air drop millions of these things with 50 rounds each attached. They were excellent for killing Nazi occupiers and sympathizers.

They won't shoot down a helicopter or blow up a tank but they will put a nice hole in the back of a Taliban noggin at a market or mosque. Close up. Just like the Taliban like it.

Make it impossible for the Taliban to mix with the locals.


Why not? A little anarchy will spice up their day!
 
2012-10-02 01:09:19 PM  

clyph: Perducci: Maybe once the Republicans win the next election they can approach the Taliban.

"Look, we're all extremists here. You hate gays? WE hate gays? You love shootin' guns? WE love shootin' guns! You think women need to know their place? Hey! So do we! People of a different race frighten and confuse you? Guess what.... Yup! Us too! So, c'mon, even though you believe in some funny Muhammed-y stuff and haven't discovered Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Amen Amen Amen, we can all get along, right? We want the same things, you just have some silly beliefs about a big black cube thing. We can overlook that. Hey, by the way, what do you think about Mexicans? We might have a job for you."

So much THIS. The only difference between the GOP and the Taliban is which invisible sky wizard they pray to and what they can get away with doing. The only reason the christaliban aren't stoning loose women and blowing up religious icons of other faiths is that they can't get away with it (yet).


Intelligent - all GOP are religious and all Democrats are non-religious. Hell, I'm a non-religious democrat and I still see the stupidity of your statement.
 
2012-10-02 01:12:26 PM  
Dammit, I TOLD Hillary, 2 FIRST round picks, 1 second round, and 2 3-5th rounders.....no one will go for a player to be named later.
 
2012-10-02 01:17:23 PM  
Peace with the Taliban means giving up control of the Heroin trade. The MIC is not going to willingly give up such a lucrative business. Therefore we will always be at war with Eastasia.
 
2012-10-02 01:17:51 PM  
Your enemies are the only people you can make peace with...
 
2012-10-02 01:18:47 PM  

DaCaptain19: Intelligent - all GOP are religious and all Democrats are non-religious. Hell, I'm a non-religious democrat and I still see the stupidity of your statement.


It's called hyperbole. Acquaint yourself with the concept.
 
2012-10-02 01:18:51 PM  

DaCaptain19:
World War III? Hardly. I mean, who the f*ck is going to war with the U.S. because Tehran was nuked?


Just nuke them and say, "we did it because they're muzlin"
and don't blink.
 
2012-10-02 01:21:07 PM  

DaCaptain19: One nuclear bomb each in the capital of these countries:

Iran
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Saudi Arabia
Syria
ANY country with an Islamic ruling party.
How about ALL countries in the middle east save Israel.

And North Korea just for sh*ts and giggles.



You sound Christian.
 
2012-10-02 01:28:56 PM  
The entire Iraq/Afghanistan debacle makes Gallipoli look like a masterpiece of strategic planning. Over-confidence, delusional thinking, hubris, religious nut-baggery. The U.S. military has it all in spades... taking a military designed to fight the Soviets to an insurgency has worked Oh So well the last 50 years.....Let's keep trying and see if we win THIS time.......lol....800 dollar a gallon gas/ billions spent on air-condition...If you think of all the positive actions that could have been taken to help our country, it's enough to make you sick.
 
2012-10-02 01:30:31 PM  
Nonsense. Nobody wants to keep fighting, not even the Taliban. While rids a society of young bachelors and leaves more poon for the ruling class, it is expensive and messy business. The Taliban wants what most of the Fundy Muslim world wants: (1) Complete Muslim ownership of their holy places; and (2) no corrupting Western influences in their communities.

The first one's a problem because one of their holy places is currently owned by Israel, which is why they hate The Jew. And the Jew ain't goin' anywhere. There's almost as many here in the US as there are in Israel. That, plus our corporate interests in the ME will ensure the US supports them as an ally. Not really sure what can be "negotiated" about that.

As for the second item, We can have Vegas and Manhattan and Swingin' Berlin and Sexy Paris and Red Light Amsterdam all we want, so long as we don't try to colonize their communities with our lingerie stores and corporate field offices. Those bring our degenerate whore women walking around with skin showing. OK, that's a problem since they DO like our money and want our construction and petroleum companies to come do stuff and since we have the laws permitting women to work and What Not, the women will show up.

The solution is to bite the bullet, say goodbye to their business, and divest from those countries. They want to be left alone? fark 'em, leave 'em alone. I guaran-dam-tee you they won't be coming here to cause trouble. Their nationals who come to Europe and N. America are the progressives of their societies, not the hard-boiled Fundies. And they're just here to buy the shiat they can't get at home, them slink back, sated and guilty. It's like the odd Evangelical who gets caught in the whore-house, not representative of the main body of believers who just want to be left alone to oppress their women and delude their children.

But that's not our problem. No, it isn't.

Ehh, this seemed simpler when I started thinking of this post.
 
2012-10-02 01:35:37 PM  

emersonbiggins: Oblig.

[www.legitgov.org image 300x146]


Not Taliban....go find the original photo that appeared in the NY Times and then google the names of those present to find out what happened to them in order to not make yourself look like a moran.


SPOILER ALERT
they were assassinated by the Taliban prior to 9-11 because they were allied with the US and would have been used to hunt down the Taliban. 

which party keeps pushing the lie as some sort of truth
 
2012-10-02 01:36:41 PM  
Biness


Finally!! The man with plan shows up? So let's hear it, genius. Lay it out there for us. I mean if the 2 largest armies ever assembled can't figure it out, obviously a Farker is going to come up with a plan in five minutes to win. Ah, yes, "Eye towards winning it!!" That will be our new slogan! When the next Afghan flips his lid and starts offing the trainers,we will tell their families that they died, with their leg blown off, and their "eyes towards winning it". Just like that.

/go explain it in person/.
 
2012-10-02 01:36:43 PM  
Im fairly certain that at this point, there is no organized taliban as they once existed. Its just new people picking up the Taliban name and running with it... sort of like Anonymous.

All the original players are gone.
 
2012-10-02 01:37:13 PM  
We should pull out of Afghanistan. Then when the Taliban reorganize and try to take over again, go back in and destroy them again. Then pull out again. Repeat every few years as needed. No need to stay there, just have them be fully aware that if they get too freaky the U.S. is bound to come back in and wreck shiat.
 
2012-10-02 01:37:53 PM  

Biness: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: [www.handgunclub.com image 500x329]

We should air drop millions of these things with 50 rounds each attached. They were excellent for killing Nazi occupiers and sympathizers.

They won't shoot down a helicopter or blow up a tank but they will put a nice hole in the back of a Taliban noggin at a market or mosque. Close up. Just like the Taliban like it.

Make it impossible for the Taliban to mix with the locals.

What happened the last time the US govt started handing out guns?


I think that's what put the Taliban in power in the first place.
 
2012-10-02 01:39:06 PM  
University of Nebraska, in league with USAID/CIA, spent 50 million on creating `jihadi' text books for use in the madrasas during the Soviet occupation of Afhanistan. Apparently these have been updated by the taliban (and/or originals altered) so the U.S,/NATO troops replaced the commie horde (how many soldiers are stacked like cord wood in the illustration, achmed?) Nice to know we're on both sides of the fence right, taxpayer?

Military, had some hubris, it's true. However, Neocon cabal loosed the jesses without so much as a tip of the hat to either Kipling or the Soviet's, et al.. advice/experience. And Farking Iraq? WTF?
Best counter insurgency option would have been to buy up the entire opium crop at very high prices (half in cash/ half in NATO goods and services and free education for the kiddies in private schools in NATO countries - with caveat that they return home).

After the initial bombing what was really left to fark with, anyway?

/park plenty of missile subs in the Oceans surrounding Mr. Monroe's hemisphere, and use them if provoked.
//Smedley Butler and Samuel Clemens saw this coming
 
2012-10-02 01:40:22 PM  

clyph: GBB: There is no peace with a group that is told that you MUST die because you do not believe what they do.

Wait, are we talking about the Taliban or the Tea Party?


Wait, I think that's the Bill Ayers wing of the Democrat party.

People, leave other people alone. If they're not committing violence upon you, not taking your stuff, nor doing that to anyone else, then what they do, what they say, how they believe, who they fark, how they earn their living, is no business of yours.

There are very few that are the boogieman you think they are. Not Democrats, not Republicans, not the Tea Partiers, not the Chinese, not even Iranians. 99.99% of all of them are just folks.

That last 0.01% are the bastards in every group, and they'll tell you they are, right to your face and rely on you to not believe they're that serious. Their common refrain is "We will use the power of the state to make them (you) better." They'll kill, maim, steal and go to bed with a clear conscience because they did good that day, up to their hips in your blood. Not literally, however, as they'll hire someone else to do it for them. This group is the threat to everyone, and they're IN YOUR FACTION and they're probably IN CHARGE. Clean your own houses.
 
2012-10-02 01:43:46 PM  
Alonjar

..Do you think the V.C was the same guys during the end of the war as in 65?? You are not fighting against a particular set of men. You are fighting against an idea. We spent 10 years dropping more tonnage on Vietnam than all of WW2 combined, destroying their jungles, and killing lots of civilians. We didn't win. We're not going to win here. They don't want what we have to sell them. It's really that simple. And as bad as the Taliban is, I would rather see that money going to help people over here like my friend with PTSD from Ramadi. Or the old guy that can't get medical care....
 
2012-10-02 01:46:10 PM  

FlippityFlap: Biness


Finally!! The man with plan shows up? So let's hear it, genius. Lay it out there for us. I mean if the 2 largest armies ever assembled can't figure it out, obviously a Farker is going to come up with a plan in five minutes to win. Ah, yes, "Eye towards winning it!!" That will be our new slogan! When the next Afghan flips his lid and starts offing the trainers,we will tell their families that they died, with their leg blown off, and their "eyes towards winning it". Just like that.

/go explain it in person/.


divert floodplains. starve major population centers. raze everything. go roman on them.
 
2012-10-02 01:46:45 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: [www.handgunclub.com image 500x329]

We should air drop millions of these things with 50 rounds each attached. They were excellent for killing Nazi occupiers and sympathizers.

They won't shoot down a helicopter or blow up a tank but they will put a nice hole in the back of a Taliban noggin at a market or mosque. Close up. Just like the Taliban like it.

Make it impossible for the Taliban to mix with the locals.


What makes you think the locals will use them on the Taliban?
 
2012-10-02 01:50:21 PM  

DaCaptain19: Crushinator: Wipe them out.... all of them.

We should just put up or shut up. One nuclear bomb each in the capital of these countries:

Iran
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Saudi Arabia
Syria
ANY country with an Islamic ruling party.
How about ALL countries in the middle east save Israel.

And North Korea just for sh*ts and giggles.

World War III? Hardly. I mean, who the f*ck is going to war with the U.S. because Tehran was nuked?


You are forgetting China and Russia. Then again if that happens, I am sure say Cuba would want to get a piece of us once we are all deployed out in the Middle East after WWIII starts. However after a couple of pot shots on U.S soil they would die a horrible death.

We may not get invaded, however Soviets alone can outnumber us on the battlefield because they actually can force their citizens to go to war on a whim. Plus nuking a battlefield (since it will be in the middle east) will simply make it unobtainable due to fallout, and we don't want that do we? So we would have to use our specialized technologies to bomb and shoot them. Which, just by the amount of we will have to take out of our economy just for that would screw the domestic U.S.

Millions of people would die, economies would be lost on both sides. To think, all this will happen over resources that generate money for the rich, in which most who are benefiting aren't even U.S citizens.

The world needs a "Re Roll" button.
 
2012-10-02 01:53:43 PM  

FlippityFlap: Alonjar

..Do you think the V.C was the same guys during the end of the war as in 65?? You are not fighting against a particular set of men. You are fighting against an idea. We spent 10 years dropping more tonnage on Vietnam than all of WW2 combined, destroying their jungles, and killing lots of civilians. We didn't win. We're not going to win here. They don't want what we have to sell them. It's really that simple. And as bad as the Taliban is, I would rather see that money going to help people over here like my friend with PTSD from Ramadi. Or the old guy that can't get medical care....


We cannot win in Afghanistan unless we annex the country and move there permanently and make it a US protectorate and even then we won't "win." The only time Afghanistan was ever conquered was by Ghengis Khan, when it was Khwarezm, and HE only defeated it by razing the country literally to the ground from end to end. Alexander the Great couldn't do it, the British Empire couldn't do it, the USSR couldn't do it. Like all small countries, Afghanistan wins by not winning: They know that sooner or later, the occupiers will leave, and they will still be there.

The Taliban is not going to magically become a democratic government, and the people are not magically going to convert to Protestantism; they're not going to suddenly begin treating their women like human beings and allowing free speech. Change like that happens from within, not without. The best thing we can do at this point is withdraw the military presence, and attempt to maintain at least a frigid relationship with whoever winds up being in charge--better still, let China establish diplomatic relations with them, and allow capitalism to come in through the back door via Chinese business. But staying there because the Taliban is going to be so bad is ridiculous. The longer we stay, the worse the Taliban or their successors are going to be.
 
2012-10-02 01:55:10 PM  

DaCaptain19: Crushinator: Wipe them out.... all of them.

We should just put up or shut up. One nuclear bomb each in the capital of these countries:

Iran
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Saudi Arabia
Syria
ANY country with an Islamic ruling party.
How about ALL countries in the middle east save Israel.

And North Korea just for sh*ts and giggles.

World War III? Hardly. I mean, who the f*ck is going to war with the U.S. because Tehran was nuked?


Its a good thing we all don't share the same ecosystem .....Oh wait........
 
2012-10-02 01:56:59 PM  

xevian: DaCaptain19: Crushinator: Wipe them out.... all of them.

We should just put up or shut up. One nuclear bomb each in the capital of these countries:

Iran
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Saudi Arabia
Syria
ANY country with an Islamic ruling party.
How about ALL countries in the middle east save Israel.

And North Korea just for sh*ts and giggles.

World War III? Hardly. I mean, who the f*ck is going to war with the U.S. because Tehran was nuked?

You are forgetting China and Russia. Then again if that happens, I am sure say Cuba would want to get a piece of us once we are all deployed out in the Middle East after WWIII starts. However after a couple of pot shots on U.S soil they would die a horrible death.

We may not get invaded, however Soviets alone can outnumber us on the battlefield because they actually can force their citizens to go to war on a whim. Plus nuking a battlefield (since it will be in the middle east) will simply make it unobtainable due to fallout, and we don't want that do we? So we would have to use our specialized technologies to bomb and shoot them. Which, just by the amount of we will have to take out of our economy just for that would screw the domestic U.S.

Millions of people would die, economies would be lost on both sides. To think, all this will happen over resources that generate money for the rich, in which most who are benefiting aren't even U.S citizens.

The world needs a "Re Roll" button.


Would 2D20's cover it?
 
2012-10-02 01:59:02 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: We should air drop millions of these things with 50 rounds each attached. They were excellent for killing Nazi occupiers and sympathizers. ... Make it impossible for the Taliban to mix with the locals.


Your cunning plan might have a little more chance of working if the Taliban weren't locals and if the NATO forces (including the US) weren't the detested occupying invaders.
 
2012-10-02 01:59:21 PM  
Drone strike diplomacy really doesn't have any more of a future than preemptive warfare does. Sure let's talk, just ignore those loud explosions, oh your niece is laying in pieces now?

Just remember she was Collateral damage, so don't hold that agaisnt us, we just need your cooperation to win.

Obama you disappoint me, slightly better than bush sometimes is still really shiatty.
 
2012-10-02 02:01:28 PM  

vudukungfu: Fark those motherfarking motherfarkers all to hell and piss on the ashes.
ANyone making a deal with them is a traitor, and a treasonous bastard, and should be hanged by the farking neck until dead, dead, dead.

FARK YOU FOR MAKING DEALS WITH THE TALIBAN, mother farkers.!!


Remind me again which country created the Taliban (or "brave Mujihadeen allies", as they were known then) to put one over the Russians.
 
2012-10-02 02:03:48 PM  

dudemanbro: We should pull out of Afghanistan. Then when the Taliban reorganize and try to take over again, go back in and destroy them again. Then pull out again. Repeat every few years as needed. No need to stay there, just have them be fully aware that if they get too freaky the U.S. is bound to come back in and wreck shiat.


This makes so much sense that there really must be something wrong with it. It can't really be that simple. Hell, we could consider it a training exercise.

Dennis Miller once said: "I dig these airstrikes. They're like sanctions with attitude."
 
2012-10-02 02:07:27 PM  

orbister: vudukungfu: Fark those motherfarking motherfarkers all to hell and piss on the ashes.
ANyone making a deal with them is a traitor, and a treasonous bastard, and should be hanged by the farking neck until dead, dead, dead.

FARK YOU FOR MAKING DEALS WITH THE TALIBAN, mother farkers.!!

Remind me again which country created the Taliban (or "brave Mujihadeen allies", as they were known then) to put one over the Russians.


You can't reason with the "kill them all" crowd, and they are unable to imagine the consequences of the type of action they want taken.
 
2012-10-02 02:09:42 PM  
FTFA: "American officials say they hope that the Taliban will find the Afghan Army a more formidable adversary than they expect and be compelled, in the years after NATO withdraws, to come to terms with what they now dismiss as a "puppet" government."

The Taliban have already kicked the USSR's sorry butt all the way to Moscow and are in the process of kicking the USA's sorry butt all the way to Washington. The Afghan army - a rag tag group put together to defend the despotic ruler of a country nobody believes in - are going to be more formidable than either the Russkies or the Yanks? In whose dreams?
 
2012-10-02 02:14:00 PM  

DaCaptain19: We should just put up or shut up. One nuclear bomb each in the capital of these countries:

Iran
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Saudi Arabia
Syria


Wonderful idea. Because there is absolutely no record ever of pissed off civilians taking action against military superpowers, is there? Think 9/11, only this time with Pakistan's entire nuclear arsenal in play.
 
2012-10-02 02:19:37 PM  

orbister: Remind me again which country created the Taliban (or "brave Mujihadeen allies", as they were known then) to put one over the Russians.


You don't hire an assassin unless you have an assassin already hired to kill the assassin you are hiring.
That's like rule number 15 of cold war killing rules.
 
2012-10-02 02:20:52 PM  

Joe Blowme: cant reason with a death cult


The Taliban aren't a rational bunch either.
 
2012-10-02 02:41:28 PM  
So, The Taliban = The Tea Party

Because stoning rape victims and not allowing girls an education is the same as asking your
government not to spend money at a rate that requires borrowing $.40 on the dollar?

Keep farking that chicken boys.
 
2012-10-02 02:46:01 PM  

FlippityFlap: The entire Iraq/Afghanistan debacle makes Gallipoli look like a masterpiece of strategic planning. Over-confidence, delusional thinking, hubris, religious nut-baggery. The U.S. military has it all in spades... taking a military designed to fight the Soviets to an insurgency has worked Oh So well the last 50 years.....Let's keep trying and see if we win THIS time.......lol....800 dollar a gallon gas/ billions spent on air-condition...If you think of all the positive actions that could have been taken to help our country, it's enough to make you sick.


To be fair, the current model doesn't have to win to be successful. It has to be a moneymaker for certain parties to be successful. And, boy howdy, has it been successful.
 
2012-10-02 02:46:54 PM  
Despite the U.S.'s sincere efforts at peace, every time they would drop a payload of good tidings, the locals would mysteriously erupt into lumps of charred flesh... a clear indication that they're not interested in peace talks.

Fret not though, I'm sure the MIC will find another nation worthy to receive the business end of our olive branch.
 
2012-10-02 02:52:32 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Because stoning rape victims and not allowing girls an education is the same as asking your
government not to spend money at a rate that requires borrowing $.40 on the dollar?


Do you know what the Taliban policy is on government borrowing?
 
2012-10-02 02:52:32 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: stoning rape victims and not allowing girls an education


Hey, it's cultural diversity and it should be celebrated.
 
2012-10-02 02:55:45 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Because stoning rape victims and not allowing girls an education is the same as asking your government not to spend money at a rate that requires borrowing $.40 on the dollar?


No, but forcing a rape victim to bear the child her rapist "helped" her conceive - against the woman's wishes - is condemning her to a lifetime of being reminded how little power she actually has over her body. Rape being a crime of power, that's a fate worse than death. Hyperbolic? Maybe, but it's true.

"Not allowing girls an education" is a preferable position to "not allowing anyone a decent education", actually. Not that I'd support choosing Muhamad al-Taqib as Secretary of Education, but neither would I support Falwell's kid.

"Asking your government to spend at a rate that requires borrowing" is not, in itself, a bad policy. How long that borrowing window will last, why we need to borrow (is it to buy Maseratis for the Executive branch, or are we rejiggering a healthcare system that represents 15-20% of GDP and fixing to add some 30 million people to that system?), and what we're spending on seem like important issues.

Is it overly reductive reasoning? Yup. Does the nuance of the statement reveal the intent behind it (namely, that both the Taliban and the Tea Party represent social moves backward)? Also yup.

You want people to stop comparing the Tea Party to the Taliban? Stop the Tea Party from favoring laws based on the same reasoning (my holy book/religious culture says so!).
 
2012-10-02 02:57:19 PM  

Biness: geek_mars: I can't imagine anyone held any true hope of negotiating peace with the Taliban, but I'm glad it was attempted. I understand the necessities of war, but that doesn't mean peace isn't worth pursuing, even with a group like the Taliban.

[www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk image 165x247]
We shall have peace in our time.

Not disagreeing with your sentiment, but there can be no discussion with the taliban. There can be no peace between freedom and despotism. The trouble is we never fought this war with an eye towards winning it.


You can't win hearts and minds with guns and bombs. If we really want to demonstrate the virtues of freedom and individual liberty, we must lead by example. Ultimately though, we have to be willing to respect the sovereignty of other nations to govern as they wish. Besides, we have plenty of human rights issues to address right here at home.
 
2012-10-02 03:10:11 PM  

Dr Dreidel: You want people to stop comparing the Tea Party to the Taliban? Stop the Tea Party from favoring laws based on the same reasoning (my holy book/religious culture says so!).


On the whole I agree that equating the Tea Party with the Taliban is a little unfair, although they do have a fair bit in common The Tea Party's closest equivalents and, you'd think, natural allies, worldwide are probably Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the Alliance of Builders of Islamic Iran.
 
2012-10-02 03:22:27 PM  

Reverend Monkeypants: vudukungfu: Crushinator: Wipe them out.... all of them.

Exactly.
Fark those motherfarking motherfarkers all to hell and piss on the ashes.
ANyone making a deal with them is a traitor, and a treasonous bastard, and should be hanged by the farking neck until dead, dead, dead.

FARK YOU FOR MAKING DEALS WITH THE TALIBAN, mother farkers.!!

Well, we'll have to start with the Reagan republicans then.
[whitenoiseinsanity.com image 750x499]
/as hot as a radioactive sheet of glass 

But yeah, at this point it's too late. They will always want to tear down civilization now so might as well remove them from the equation.


I agree with the idea that we *should* be negotiating with the Taliban but that is not a picture of Reagan meeting with the Taliban. The Taliban did not exist until about 10 years later and was formed as a response to the post Soviet civil war. It would be interesting to know who the Afghinies are that Reagan is meeting with. I believe one is Mohammad Nabi Mohammadi. Also if Gulbuddin Hekmatyar is not in that photo the must be at least one of his representatives there. Neither became part of the Taliban but neither really opposed them either.
 
2012-10-02 03:23:44 PM  

Dr Dreidel: You want people to stop comparing the Tea Party to the Taliban? Stop the Tea Party from favoring laws based on the same reasoning (my holy book/religious culture says so!).


THIS.
 
2012-10-02 03:31:49 PM  

Dr Dreidel:

You want people to stop comparing the Tea Party to the Taliban? Stop the Tea Party from favoring laws based on the same reasoning (my holy book/religious culture says so!).


Sorry, I believe you've been misled.

http://www.teaparty-platform.com/

100% Economic Policy. No abortion, no Jeebus, No fundies. In fact, nothing in there I wouldn't expect most people to either agree with, or at least grudgingly respect.

Are there some kooks in the Tea Party crowd? No doubt, but from what I've seen and read, your fears of women forced to have their rapists babies and creationism in schools seem founded more in media misrepresentations than actual facts.

Not a member, so, just saying.
 
2012-10-02 03:39:34 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: You want people to stop comparing the Tea Party to the Taliban? Stop the Tea Party from favoring laws based on the same reasoning (my holy book/religious culture says so!).

Sorry, I believe you've been misled.


Yeah. Clearly.

// on their stated economic platform, I can support some of it
// if instead "you will know us by our deeds", the TP is a hive of no-cum and Jesusery
 
2012-10-02 03:47:21 PM  
Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading -Thomas Jefferson.
 
2012-10-02 03:48:18 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Zeb Hesselgresser: You want people to stop comparing the Tea Party to the Taliban? Stop the Tea Party from favoring laws based on the same reasoning (my holy book/religious culture says so!).

Sorry, I believe you've been misled.

Yeah. Clearly.

// on their stated economic platform, I can support some of it
// if instead "you will know us by our deeds", the TP is a hive of no-cum and Jesusery


Indeed.

They may have STARTED as merely an economic party.

But they are now a pure theocratically-based organization, and anyone who thinks otherwise need only look at their support of gender equality laws, faith-based initiatives, religion in education, rabid attacks on Muslims, and other completely non-economic-based political motivations.

Anyone who thinks they are ONLY interested in economic policy is relying on misrepresentations.
 
2012-10-02 03:51:14 PM  

Reverend Monkeypants: vudukungfu: Crushinator: Wipe them out.... all of them.

Exactly.
Fark those motherfarking motherfarkers all to hell and piss on the ashes.
ANyone making a deal with them is a traitor, and a treasonous bastard, and should be hanged by the farking neck until dead, dead, dead.

FARK YOU FOR MAKING DEALS WITH THE TALIBAN, mother farkers.!!

Well, we'll have to start with the Reagan republicans then.
[whitenoiseinsanity.com image 750x499]
/as hot as a radioactive sheet of glass 

But yeah, at this point it's too late. They will always want to tear down civilization now so might as well remove them from the equation.


That's that Mujahideen. The Taliban didn't exist for anotehr 10 years.
 
2012-10-02 03:58:55 PM  

Danger Mouse: That's that Mujahideen. The Taliban didn't exist for anotehr 10 years.


www.monitorcreative.co.uk
 
2012-10-02 04:03:59 PM  

clyph: Perducci: Maybe once the Republicans win the next election they can approach the Taliban.

"Look, we're all extremists here. You hate gays? WE hate gays? You love shootin' guns? WE love shootin' guns! You think women need to know their place? Hey! So do we! People of a different race frighten and confuse you? Guess what.... Yup! Us too! So, c'mon, even though you believe in some funny Muhammed-y stuff and haven't discovered Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Amen Amen Amen, we can all get along, right? We want the same things, you just have some silly beliefs about a big black cube thing. We can overlook that. Hey, by the way, what do you think about Mexicans? We might have a job for you."

So much THIS. The only difference between the GOP and the Taliban is which invisible sky wizard they pray to and what they can get away with doing. The only reason the christaliban aren't stoning loose women and blowing up religious icons of other faiths is that they can't get away with it (yet) anymore.


FTFY
 
2012-10-02 04:17:54 PM  

Giltric: emersonbiggins: Oblig.

[www.legitgov.org image 300x146]

Not Taliban....go find the original photo that appeared in the NY Times and then google the names of those present to find out what happened to them in order to not make yourself look like a moran.


SPOILER ALERT
they were assassinated by the Taliban prior to 9-11 because they were allied with the US and would have been used to hunt down the Taliban. 

which party keeps pushing the lie as some sort of truth


To a lot of Americans, all brown people are the same. Anytime I see some moran post that image, I am reminded of that.

Especially since the Taliban didn't form until 1995.
 
2012-10-02 04:25:36 PM  

orbister: vudukungfu: Fark those motherfarking motherfarkers all to hell and piss on the ashes.
ANyone making a deal with them is a traitor, and a treasonous bastard, and should be hanged by the farking neck until dead, dead, dead.

FARK YOU FOR MAKING DEALS WITH THE TALIBAN, mother farkers.!!

Remind me again which country created the Taliban (or "brave Mujihadeen allies", as they were known then) to put one over the Russians.


You do know how the Taliban formed, right? It had nothing to do with the US support.

tl;dr version of the history:
- Soviets invade Afghanistan and install puppet government
- Afghani (and other neighboring country residents) Mujihadeen start to fight back
- US, disliking the commies, helped the Mujihadeen out
- Soviets proceed to leave after the guerrilla warfare.
- US decides to stop the support and hightail it out of there
- Afghanistan turns into a lawless region, ruled by local warlords
- One asshole warlord proceeded to kidnap some local young boys and keep them as sex slaves
- Mullah Omar heard about it and recruited some locals, and proceeded to free the boys and kill the warlord
- They proceeded to gain power and you know the rest.

So if the US hadn't helped the Mujihadeen at all, the Taliban still would've likely formed. Even if the US had stayed in and helped rebuild, the Taliban would've likely formed (since they would view the US as invaders rather than the Soviets).
 
2012-10-02 04:35:31 PM  
i.imgur.com

Still waiting for the next RAMBO movie where he goes back to rejoin and wage war against America.
 
2012-10-02 04:43:19 PM  

machoprogrammer: orbister: vudukungfu: Fark those motherfarking motherfarkers all to hell and piss on the ashes.
ANyone making a deal with them is a traitor, and a treasonous bastard, and should be hanged by the farking neck until dead, dead, dead.

FARK YOU FOR MAKING DEALS WITH THE TALIBAN, mother farkers.!!

Remind me again which country created the Taliban (or "brave Mujihadeen allies", as they were known then) to put one over the Russians.

You do know how the Taliban formed, right? It had nothing to do with the US support.

tl;dr version of the history:
- Soviets invade Afghanistan and install puppet government
- Afghani (and other neighboring country residents) Mujihadeen start to fight back
- US, disliking the commies, helped the Mujihadeen out
- Soviets proceed to leave after the guerrilla warfare.
- US decides to stop the support and hightail it out of there
- Afghanistan turns into a lawless region, ruled by local warlords
- One asshole warlord proceeded to kidnap some local young boys and keep them as sex slaves
- Mullah Omar heard about it and recruited some locals, and proceeded to free the boys and kill the warlord
- They proceeded to gain power and you know the rest.

So if the US hadn't helped the Mujihadeen at all, the Taliban still would've likely formed. Even if the US had stayed in and helped rebuild, the Taliban would've likely formed (since they would view the US as invaders rather than the Soviets).


If you ever saw the movie Charlie Wilson's War there is a very good special feature on the DVD explaining a lot of what happened in Afghanistan after the Soviets left. A lot of people in the intelligence community believe that Al Qaeda would have never gotten involved in Afghanistan if the U.S would have armed both sides in the Afghan civil war that broke out after the Soviets left. At the time this was something that was heavily suggested. They didn't and as a result the Tailban, which was out gunned and getting spanked, accepted Bin Laden's help in the war in return for providing him and Al Qaeda with refuge as they had just been expelled from the Sudan.  And as a result Al Qaeda got the Taliban involved in stuff that they had no intention of ever getting involved in as their only goal was to govern Afghanistan the way they wanted.
 
2012-10-02 04:44:01 PM  

machoprogrammer:
So if the US hadn't helped the Mujihadeen at all, the Taliban still would've likely formed. Even if the US had stayed in and helped rebuild, the Taliban would've likely formed (since they would view the US as invaders rather than the Soviets).


If you store grain, you have to deal wtih the rats.

Exterminate them or sleep with them.
Your choice.
 
2012-10-02 04:55:11 PM  
We can't afford to keep this war going forever. Get them to agree not to blow up our skyscrapers or planes and I'll give them Kabul for all I care. It's not like Karzai was all that better.
 
2012-10-02 04:56:11 PM  

FlippityFlap: Alonjar

..Do you think the V.C was the same guys during the end of the war as in 65?? You are not fighting against a particular set of men. You are fighting against an idea. We spent 10 years dropping more tonnage on Vietnam than all of WW2 combined, destroying their jungles, and killing lots of civilians. We didn't win. We're not going to win here. They don't want what we have to sell them. It's really that simple. And as bad as the Taliban is, I would rather see that money going to help people over here like my friend with PTSD from Ramadi. Or the old guy that can't get medical care....


My entire point was that the Taliban is not an organized group, therefore negotiating with them would be futile. If its just a group of random dudes who pick up the Taliban name when it suits them, you're never going to get any kind of agreement in place. Nor will you ever fully wipe them out. We were making the same point.
 
2012-10-02 05:17:53 PM  

machoprogrammer: You do know how the Taliban formed, right? It had nothing to do with the US support.

tl;dr version of the history:
- Soviets invade Afghanistan and install puppet government
- Afghani (and other neighboring country residents) Mujihadeen start to fight back
- US, disliking the commies, helped the Mujihadeen out
- Soviets proceed to leave after the guerrilla warfare.
- US decides to stop the support and hightail it out of there
- Afghanistan turns into a lawless region, ruled by local warlords
- One asshole warlord proceeded to kidnap some local young boys and keep them as sex slaves
- Mullah Omar heard about it and recruited some locals, and proceeded to free the boys and kill the warlord
- They proceeded to gain power and you know the rest.


tl;dr of your tl;dr

- US armed fundamentalists in successful attempt to overthrow Afghan government
- Armed fundamentalists formed new Afghan government
 
2012-10-02 06:08:11 PM  

orbister: machoprogrammer: You do know how the Taliban formed, right? It had nothing to do with the US support.

tl;dr version of the history:
- Soviets invade Afghanistan and install puppet government
- Afghani (and other neighboring country residents) Mujihadeen start to fight back
- US, disliking the commies, helped the Mujihadeen out
- Soviets proceed to leave after the guerrilla warfare.
- US decides to stop the support and hightail it out of there
- Afghanistan turns into a lawless region, ruled by local warlords
- One asshole warlord proceeded to kidnap some local young boys and keep them as sex slaves
- Mullah Omar heard about it and recruited some locals, and proceeded to free the boys and kill the warlord
- They proceeded to gain power and you know the rest.

tl;dr of your tl;dr

- US armed fundamentalists in successful attempt to overthrow Afghan government
- Armed fundamentalists formed new Afghan government

1) US is always right.
2) If the US is wrong, see #1.


FTFY
 
2012-10-02 06:21:53 PM  

ZAZ: What I got from Joelogon's link is we should destroy Pakistan and Afghanistan will calm down.


That's a better plan than most I've seen here.
 
2012-10-02 06:35:18 PM  

Mighty_Joe: Reverend Monkeypants:

Well, we'll have to start with the Reagan republicans then.


Didn't study much history, did ya?
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 578x483]


Those guys knew the guys named "Taleban" ?
 
2012-10-02 06:38:53 PM  

weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 640x478]

Still waiting for the next RAMBO movie where he goes back to rejoin and wage war against America.


Truly, we messed with this wacko. Played games with them and falsified our intentions. We reneged on agreements, we gave the cold shoulder. Made and broke shady under-the-table business deals. Etc. Reap what you sow.
 
2012-10-02 09:25:10 PM  
US Fatalities due to Hostile Action in Afghanistan under George W. Bush, October 2001 - January 2009 (88 months): 424

US Fatalities due to Hostile Action in Afghanistan under Barack Obama, February 2009 - September 2012 (44 months): 1,269

So, Obama had us surge into Afghanistan, got three times as many Americans killed by the Taliban in half as much time . . . and utterly failed to achieve anything.

Kinda reminds me of his economic stimulus package, only this time he wasted lives instead of just money.
 
2012-10-03 12:00:53 AM  

Verzio: US Fatalities due to Hostile Action in Afghanistan under George W. Bush, October 2001 - January 2009 (88 months): 424

US Fatalities due to Hostile Action in Afghanistan under Barack Obama, February 2009 - September 2012 (44 months): 1,269

So, Obama had us surge into Afghanistan, got three times as many Americans killed by the Taliban in half as much time . . . and utterly failed to achieve anything.

Kinda reminds me of his economic stimulus package, only this time he wasted lives instead of just money.


And what is the body count for Iraq under each?
 
2012-10-03 12:00:54 AM  

Verzio: US Fatalities due to Hostile Action in Afghanistan under George W. Bush, October 2001 - January 2009 (88 months): 424

US Fatalities due to Hostile Action in Afghanistan under Barack Obama, February 2009 - September 2012 (44 months): 1,269

So, Obama had us surge into Afghanistan, got three times as many Americans killed by the Taliban in half as much time . . . and utterly failed to achieve anything.

Kinda reminds me of his economic stimulus package, only this time he wasted lives instead of just money.


Number of wars started in the Middle east:

Bush: 2

Obama: 0

The blood is still on Bush's hands.
 
2012-10-03 12:25:28 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: 100% Economic Policy. No abortion, no Jeebus, No fundies.


Uh huh.

We judge you by what you actually say and do, not your carefully-written press releases.

Let's look at the actual voting records and public statements of elected tea party candidates and see how that lines up with the "official position", shall we? Because when tea partiers get into office they're leading the charge for every fundie jeebus birther social conservative policy ever hatched.
 
2012-10-03 01:17:46 AM  
I learned everything I needed to know about the Taliban on 3-21-2001:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-10-03 09:56:56 AM  

Ika7734: Number of wars started in the Middle east:

Bush: 2

Obama: 0


First, maybe you didn't notice, but Obama did start a war in the Middle East. Which had, among other things, the following consequences:

1. The northern part of Mali was taken over by Islamic terrorists that have been busy killing people and destroying centuries-old cultural artifacts
2. The democratic government of southern Mali was overthrown in a military coup by generals pissed off at #2.
3. A US ambassador was murdered.

But, hey, at least we killed off someone who Bush (of all people) had convinced, through diplomacy (of all things), to give up his WMD programs and his sponsorship of terrorism. I'm sure the fate of Qadaffi won't give Iranian leaders any pause as Obama tries to convince them, through diplomacy, to give up their WMD programs and sponsorship of terrorism.

When it comes to foreign policy, Obama makes Bush look competent. Which is, I admit, is pretty farking goddamn amazing, but, you know, not the sort of achievement that actually recommends a guy for a second term.

Second, Bush started the war in Afghanistan like FDR bombed Pearl Harbor. I seem to recall some farkers hijacking some planes and ramming them into buildings, and the entire world counting that as an act of war against the US.

So, you know, actual count Bush 1, Obama 1 on the wars started in the Middle East. Thanks for playing, though.

The blood is still on Bush's hands.

That's farking amazing. Obama changes policy such that Americans die in Afghanistan at six times the rate they did under Bush-gets more Americans killed in four years than would have died in twenty under Bush's approach-and you blame Bush. I guess Bush gave you the syphilis that's rotting your brain, too?

Here's a quarter. Hold it down on the train tracks with your belly button; when the train runs over it, it'll make the quarter super-flat.
 
2012-10-03 07:36:30 PM  

Verzio: Ika7734: Number of wars started in the Middle east:

Bush: 2

Obama: 0

First, maybe you didn't notice, but Obama did start a war in the Middle East. Which had, among other things, the following consequences:

1. The northern part of Mali was taken over by Islamic terrorists that have been busy killing people and destroying centuries-old cultural artifacts
2. The democratic government of southern Mali was overthrown in a military coup by generals pissed off at #2.
3. A US ambassador was murdered.

But, hey, at least we killed off someone who Bush (of all people) had convinced, through diplomacy (of all things), to give up his WMD programs and his sponsorship of terrorism. I'm sure the fate of Qadaffi won't give Iranian leaders any pause as Obama tries to convince them, through diplomacy, to give up their WMD programs and sponsorship of terrorism.

When it comes to foreign policy, Obama makes Bush look competent. Which is, I admit, is pretty farking goddamn amazing, but, you know, not the sort of achievement that actually recommends a guy for a second term.

Second, Bush started the war in Afghanistan like FDR bombed Pearl Harbor. I seem to recall some farkers hijacking some planes and ramming them into buildings, and the entire world counting that as an act of war against the US.

So, you know, actual count Bush 1, Obama 1 on the wars started in the Middle East. Thanks for playing, though.

The blood is still on Bush's hands.

That's farking amazing. Obama changes policy such that Americans die in Afghanistan at six times the rate they did under Bush-gets more Americans killed in four years than would have died in twenty under Bush's approach-and you blame Bush. I guess Bush gave you the syphilis that's rotting your brain, too?

Here's a quarter. Hold it down on the train tracks with your belly button; when the train runs over it, it'll make the quarter super-flat.


Um, no Obama didn't start Libya. That was a more British and French run UN deal at the behest of the Libyan rebellion.
I can concede on Bush starting Afghanistan, but it was his policies that kept us there so long.
Iraq was a complete lie and clusterfark.

Insults are usually the tactics of the desperate.
 
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