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(ESPN)   Knicks GM says the reason Jeremy Lin was let go was financial. By that, he means it makes perfect sense to pay New York sensations Raymond Felton and Jason Kidd instead   (espn.go.com) divider line 40
    More: Dumbass, Raymond Felton, Jason Kidd, Knicks GM, Jeremy Lin, Knicks, New York, Mike Woodson, Marcus Camby  
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407 clicks; posted to Sports » on 02 Oct 2012 at 10:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-02 10:17:06 AM
The thing that I don't understand: Even if you're worried about the last year of the contract, you could always trade him. Some team out there would be all over a $15 mil expiring contract. No sense in losing 2 years of Lin for nothing, especially when there's likely to be a way out of the 3rd.

Oh wait, I do understand. Dolan.
 
2012-10-02 10:27:04 AM

FreakinB: Dolan.


He's a dipshiat. The Chinese distribution alone would have paid for Lin's entire contract in the first season. Who cares if Lin isn't the next Michael Jordan. He was fun to watch, and the Yao Ming fans were salivating for a hero. You would have seen Houston jerseys being swapped for Knicks jerseys from Canal Street to Tienanmen Square.

But hey, Jason Kidd.
 
2012-10-02 10:29:11 AM
"Financial", meaning, "We didn't want to pay Melo $60m over the next 3 years to whine and pout like a petulant child if Lin was still on the team".
 
2012-10-02 10:34:28 AM

FreakinB: The thing that I don't understand: Even if you're worried about the last year of the contract, you could always trade him. Some team out there would be all over a $15 mil expiring contract. No sense in losing 2 years of Lin for nothing, especially when there's likely to be a way out of the 3rd.

Oh wait, I do understand. Dolan.


Except by the time they try to trade him the contract would still have $25 million on it, which would have been too much for almost any team, even ones better-run by the Knicks.
 
2012-10-02 10:46:06 AM
No matter what team you're a fan of, what sport, you can always think of the management and think, "At least we're not the Knicks".
 
2012-10-02 10:49:54 AM
thatsracist.gif

/obligatory
 
2012-10-02 10:50:07 AM

Arkanaut: FreakinB: The thing that I don't understand: Even if you're worried about the last year of the contract, you could always trade him. Some team out there would be all over a $15 mil expiring contract. No sense in losing 2 years of Lin for nothing, especially when there's likely to be a way out of the 3rd.

Oh wait, I do understand. Dolan.

Except by the time they try to trade him the contract would still have $25 million on it, which would have been too much for almost any team, even ones better-run by the Knicks.


no, the last year is only 15 million or so. that's not a bad trade chip whether you're using it to balance the salaries in a chris paul [random big name pulled out of my ass] trade or dealing him to some team that wants an expiring to open up cap space for free agency. the 25+ million cost in the third year that everyone was throwing around was if the knicks kept him and were still so far over the cap (which they would be with a'mare, melo, tyson, etc).
 
2012-10-02 10:58:11 AM
It's not that hard to understand - if they weren't going to be able to match competing offers, why bother trying? Lin wasn't the future of the Knicks at PG because he was never going to stay - so why try to build on a piece that is going to be missing?
 
2012-10-02 11:02:40 AM
Yeah the Lin debacle. Sorry Dolan. Cant handle you anymore. Im brooklyn born. And now Im a Brooklyn fan. Go Nets.

In reality. Basketball is just a terrible sport. So I dont even really care.
 
2012-10-02 11:05:07 AM

cefm: It's not that hard to understand - if they weren't going to be able to match competing offers, why bother trying? Lin wasn't the future of the Knicks at PG because he was never going to stay - so why try to build on a piece that is going to be missing?


they were completely and totally able to match, they chose not to. hell, the reason lin's contract had to be structured as 5mil, 5mil, 15mil instead of 8mil per year for 3 years was solely to enable to knicks to match if they wanted (it's the gilbert arenas rule). and why do you think he was never going to stay? from all reports i've seen he's openly said he was hoping to stay with the knicks.
 
2012-10-02 11:23:10 AM
If they didn't want to match Lin's contract, fine. It's the Dolan butthurt AFTER THEY FARKING ENCOURAGED LIN TO TEST THE MARKET that is completely inexcusable.

You gambled and lost, Dolan. Take it like a f*cking man.
 
2012-10-02 11:26:21 AM
And this is why that 5'6" troll named James Dolan can go EABOD and DIAF.

And I'd say he's a goddamn troll to that fat farking face of his.
 
2012-10-02 11:27:37 AM

vinnydoz007: Yeah the Lin debacle. Sorry Dolan. Cant handle you anymore. Im brooklyn born. And now Im a Brooklyn fan. Go Nets.

In reality. Basketball is just a terrible sport. So I dont even really care.


I'm seriously tempted to become a Nets fan now; just to go fark with Knick fans who drink the Dolan Flavor-Aid.
 
2012-10-02 11:34:41 AM

cefm: It's not that hard to understand - if they weren't going to be able to match competing offers, why bother trying? Lin wasn't the future of the Knicks at PG because he was never going to stay - so why try to build on a piece that is going to be missing?


No, they were assuming that either a) he *WASN'T* going to get any competing offers at all, or b) that any offer he did get would have been very tiny. Dolan flat out told Lin "Go look for other offers, then come back, and we'll talk." And then got upset when Lin did exactly that, and came back with a real contract. Worse, the original contract wasn't structured badly, and would have been more than easy enough to swallow, except then the Knicks kept saying "Oh, yea, that's doable. We'll match that. Eventually. No problem" - publicly (in the media), *before* the actual offer sheet was extended. This let the Rockets redo the offer before Lin signed it. And then Dolan essentially said "Well, if he doesn't want to play for us for a handful of beans, then we don't want him around."
 
2012-10-02 11:36:03 AM

Rwa2play: I'm seriously tempted to become a Nets fan now; just to go fark with Knick fans who drink the Dolan Flavor-Aid.


Just to add, this is the same guy who a) had to be *forced* to fire Isiah Thomas, and b) has been trying to find ways to bring him back.
 
2012-10-02 11:56:10 AM

Rwa2play: vinnydoz007: Yeah the Lin debacle. Sorry Dolan. Cant handle you anymore. Im brooklyn born. And now Im a Brooklyn fan. Go Nets.

In reality. Basketball is just a terrible sport. So I dont even really care.

I'm seriously tempted to become a Nets fan now; just to go fark with Knick fans who drink the Dolan Flavor-Aid.


People like that exist?
 
2012-10-02 12:10:01 PM
You really want Tebow and Lin in the same town? Wasn't 9/11 bad enough for New York?

/Yes, East Rutherford, I know
//Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim fan
 
2012-10-02 12:18:20 PM

Rwa2play: vinnydoz007: Yeah the Lin debacle. Sorry Dolan. Cant handle you anymore. Im brooklyn born. And now Im a Brooklyn fan. Go Nets.

In reality. Basketball is just a terrible sport. So I dont even really care.

I'm seriously tempted to become a Nets fan now; just to go fark with Knick fans who drink the Dolan Flavor-Aid.


There are Knicks fans who do that?

Count me in with the ex-Knick crowd. I'm doing it for my Brooklyn-born dad, who had his heart broken by the Dodgers... seems like the right thing spiritually.
 
2012-10-02 01:15:15 PM

The Bestest: Rwa2play: vinnydoz007: Yeah the Lin debacle. Sorry Dolan. Cant handle you anymore. Im brooklyn born. And now Im a Brooklyn fan. Go Nets.

In reality. Basketball is just a terrible sport. So I dont even really care.

I'm seriously tempted to become a Nets fan now; just to go fark with Knick fans who drink the Dolan Flavor-Aid.

People like that exist?


I just lump in "anybody who thinks Carmelo and A'mare can win the title for the Knicks" as part of that crowd. :)
 
2012-10-02 01:19:57 PM

Hilarity_N_Sues: Rwa2play: vinnydoz007: Yeah the Lin debacle. Sorry Dolan. Cant handle you anymore. Im brooklyn born. And now Im a Brooklyn fan. Go Nets.

In reality. Basketball is just a terrible sport. So I dont even really care.

I'm seriously tempted to become a Nets fan now; just to go fark with Knick fans who drink the Dolan Flavor-Aid.

There are Knicks fans who do that?

Count me in with the ex-Knick crowd. I'm doing it for my Brooklyn-born dad, who had his heart broken by the Dodgers... seems like the right thing spiritually.


Grantland had an article on Jay-Z's opening night concert at Barclays. Seems like he was awestruck by the experience of doing a concert at home. He's done the Garden many times but the fact of doing an arena concert in Brooklyn blew him away.
 
2012-10-02 01:27:40 PM
Dolan's retarded, but Felton put up better numbers than Lin did with the same team, and Felton isn't that good. I mean, it's not like they upgraded a ton, but it's not like they lost anything having the Rockets overpay Lin. Unless you think it should be all about the marketing.
 
2012-10-02 01:46:56 PM
Just when you think the Jets are the worst sports team in NY, along comes the Knicks.
 
2012-10-02 01:52:29 PM

IAmRight: Dolan's retarded, but Felton put up better numbers than Lin did with the same team, and Felton isn't that good. I mean, it's not like they upgraded a ton, but it's not like they lost anything having the Rockets overpay Lin. Unless you think it should be all about the marketing.


Right, so Felton is automatically guaranteed to return to his form 2 years ago, despite showing worse number last season, while Lin is guaranteed to never improve upon his performance last season. Next thing you know you'll be saying things like "Lin just doesn't look like he's athletic enough." How anyone can argue that Raymond Felton is a choice that says "championship ambitions" is completely beyond me.
 
2012-10-02 02:16:21 PM

FireZs: How anyone can argue that Raymond Felton is a choice that says "championship ambitions" is completely beyond me.


They have no shot at a championship regardless of who they play in that position. So why keep Lin?

FireZs: Right, so Felton is automatically guaranteed to return to his form 2 years ago, despite showing worse number last season,


Just depends on if he's Fat Ray Felton or the guy who was interested in being good at basketball two years ago. I'm just saying that for all the blowing of Lin that everyone did, Felton had better numbers while he was with the Knicks. So it's not like it's such a massive downgrade that everyone needs to act like it's a travesty. Lin's a mediocre PG that's been made into a superduperstar by a bunch of people who basically said "whoa, look, an Asian!"

Nice of you to accuse me of racism when the entire reason for his popularity is due to his race.
 
2012-10-02 02:17:01 PM
Correction: not the ENTIRE reason. Some people get off on the fact that he went to Harvard, too (where he led his team to zero Ivy League titles).
 
2012-10-02 03:03:37 PM

IAmRight: Just depends on if he's Fat Ray Felton or the guy who was interested in being good at basketball two years ago. I'm just saying that for all the blowing of Lin that everyone did, Felton had better numbers while he was with the Knicks. So it's not like it's such a massive downgrade that everyone needs to act like it's a travesty. Lin's a mediocre PG that's been made into a superduperstar by a bunch of people who basically said "whoa, look, an Asian!"

Nice of you to accuse me of racism when the entire reason for his popularity is due to his race.

Correction: not the ENTIRE reason. Some people get off on the fact that he went to Harvard, too (where he led his team to zero Ivy League titles).


Yeah, but it works the other way too: the only reason he was able to "come out of nowhere" is that he was overlooked for being asian. People only saw the negatives and assumed his worst performances were where his future performances were, much like you're doing now, hence my attributing the "he just doesn't look that athletic" comment too, since he's had to endure the same kind of devaluation all his life.
 
2012-10-02 03:16:59 PM

IAmRight: FireZs: How anyone can argue that Raymond Felton is a choice that says "championship ambitions" is completely beyond me.

They have no shot at a championship regardless of who they play in that position. So why keep Lin?

FireZs: Right, so Felton is automatically guaranteed to return to his form 2 years ago, despite showing worse number last season,

Just depends on if he's Fat Ray Felton or the guy who was interested in being good at basketball two years ago. I'm just saying that for all the blowing of Lin that everyone did, Felton had better numbers while he was with the Knicks. So it's not like it's such a massive downgrade that everyone needs to act like it's a travesty. Lin's a mediocre PG that's been made into a superduperstar by a bunch of people who basically said "whoa, look, an Asian!"

Nice of you to accuse me of racism when the entire reason for his popularity is due to his race.


Lin's race is definitely a big factor in his popularity, but to call it the ONLY reason is completely silly. Otherwise Yuta Tabuse (remember him?) would still be slashing away in the States and not back in Japan.

Lin was popular in New York because this town loves an underdog, and Lin is practically the trope codifier. Talented kid who was ignored throughout college and his early pro days, comes to the big city and suddenly starts playing lights-out basketball, taking scalp after scalp after scalp. He single-handedly made the Knicks RELEVANT again. He put the buzz back in the Garden. LINSANITY got MSG and Time-Warner back together after their imbroglio knocked Knicks/Rangers games off New York cable for weeks because fans said "fark both of you and the horses you rode in on, we want to see this kid play." The idea that this happened solely because Lin was Chinky O'Ching Chong is patently ludicrous.
 
2012-10-02 03:37:26 PM

FireZs: Yeah, but it works the other way too: the only reason he was able to "come out of nowhere" is that he was overlooked for being asian. People only saw the negatives and assumed his worst performances were where his future performances were, much like you're doing now, hence my attributing the "he just doesn't look that athletic" comment too, since he's had to endure the same kind of devaluation all his life.


Yes, I totally devalue him because he's Asian, not because he turned the ball over a ton to go with his assists and didn't even really tear the Ivy League up in college. Not because his stats were worse than Ray Felton's were two years ago for the Knicks (and there's no one in the world who thinks Ray Felton is great - there certainly wasn't any Felton-mania). It's just because he's Asian.

If there's anything I've learned playing a ton of pickup hoops is that you don't judge anyone's ability before you actually see them play unless you really wan to feel like an idiot. He's a decent PG - he's not worth anywhere near what the Rockets are paying.

Hilarity_N_Sues: Lin was popular in New York because this town loves an underdog, and Lin is practically the trope codifier.


Every town loves an underdog. Do love that everyone's painting the guy who did get offers to try out for UCLA (maybe it was Cal) but turned them down so he could go to Harvard and be guaranteed a spot on the team and, you know, went to Harvard as a plucky underdog, though.
 
2012-10-02 04:14:58 PM

IAmRight: FireZs: Yeah, but it works the other way too: the only reason he was able to "come out of nowhere" is that he was overlooked for being asian. People only saw the negatives and assumed his worst performances were where his future performances were, much like you're doing now, hence my attributing the "he just doesn't look that athletic" comment too, since he's had to endure the same kind of devaluation all his life.

Yes, I totally devalue him because he's Asian, not because he turned the ball over a ton to go with his assists and didn't even really tear the Ivy League up in college. Not because his stats were worse than Ray Felton's were two years ago for the Knicks (and there's no one in the world who thinks Ray Felton is great - there certainly wasn't any Felton-mania). It's just because he's Asian.

If there's anything I've learned playing a ton of pickup hoops is that you don't judge anyone's ability before you actually see them play unless you really wan to feel like an idiot. He's a decent PG - he's not worth anywhere near what the Rockets are paying.

Hilarity_N_Sues: Lin was popular in New York because this town loves an underdog, and Lin is practically the trope codifier.

Every town loves an underdog. Do love that everyone's painting the guy who did get offers to try out for UCLA (maybe it was Cal) but turned them down so he could go to Harvard and be guaranteed a spot on the team and, you know, went to Harvard as a plucky underdog, though.


He'd just been named Northern California player of the year and led his school to the state championship (beating perennial powerhouse Mater Dei in the process), so it isn't unfair to think he could've gotten a scholarship without having to walk on and prove himself all over again at one of those schools. Including Stanford, the college he literally lived across the street from. Regardless, the fact of the matter is that Lin was ignored throughout college. No one but the hardest of hardcore fans would've heard of him until maybe his senior year when he blew up UConn, and even that barely moved the radar for most folks. It wasn't until he hit NYC that he took off.
 
2012-10-02 04:27:54 PM

IAmRight: Yes, I totally devalue him because he's Asian, not because he turned the ball over a ton to go with his assists and didn't even really tear the Ivy League up in college. Not because his stats were worse than Ray Felton's were two years ago for the Knicks (and there's no one in the world who thinks Ray Felton is great - there certainly wasn't any Felton-mania). It's just because he's Asian.

If there's anything I've learned playing a ton of pickup hoops is that you don't judge anyone's ability before you actually see them play unless you really wan to feel like an idiot. He's a decent PG - he's not worth anywhere near what the Rockets are paying.


I agree he's no MVP at his current level of ability. But I still think you undervalue him by giving him zero benefit of the doubt compared to other players. You assess Felton at his best, and assume he will return to that form, while you assume that Lin is doomed to his worst performances. If you compared Lin to Felton's performance last year I'd be more charitable, but even if a lot of people overvalue Lin, you're clearly undervaluing him.
 
2012-10-02 04:34:39 PM

Hilarity_N_Sues: Including Stanford, the college he literally lived across the street from. Regardless, the fact of the matter is that Lin was ignored throughout college.


Because the Ivy League isn't exactly a hotbed of NBA talent? If he'd gone to UCLA as a walk-on, he might've ended up as the starting PG and then been highly recruited. As it was, when he got the opportunity to go to the first year of mini-camps, four teams offered him a contract. Hardly ignoring him.

He played a part in himself being less-known than he could've been. But hey, it's important to keep that narrative alive that no one believed in him! Makes for a better story.
 
2012-10-02 04:42:32 PM

FireZs: If you compared Lin to Felton's performance last year I'd be more charitable, but even if a lot of people overvalue Lin, you're clearly undervaluing him.


It's counterbalancing. I've said that I think Lin is an adequate PG. I think Felton can be an adequate PG (assuming he gets in shape and is in a mood to prove everyone wrong. He seemed to take pretty well to NYC). Lin costs 2.5x what Felton does, so why do you need Lin? The Rockets drove up prices on two guys (he and Asik, and neither team bit on matching, so now they're stuck with two guys who are decent but aren't making them much of anything to worry about in the West).
 
2012-10-02 04:43:05 PM

IAmRight: Because the Ivy League isn't exactly a hotbed of NBA talent? If he'd gone to UCLA as a walk-on, he might've ended up as the starting PG and then been highly recruited. As it was, when he got the opportunity to go to the first year of mini-camps, four teams offered him a contract. Hardly ignoring him.

He played a part in himself being less-known than he could've been. But hey, it's important to keep that narrative alive that no one believed in him! Makes for a better story.


This is what I'm talking about when I say that you give him zero benefit of the doubt. He leads his high school team to the state championship and gets zero scholarship offers, and it's HIS fault that he doesn't go to UCLA as a walk-on? How much playing time do you think they would have given him if they weren't willing to recruit him? You have to do some serious spinning to make things fit YOUR storyline.
 
2012-10-02 04:52:41 PM

IAmRight: FireZs: If you compared Lin to Felton's performance last year I'd be more charitable, but even if a lot of people overvalue Lin, you're clearly undervaluing him.

It's counterbalancing. I've said that I think Lin is an adequate PG. I think Felton can be an adequate PG (assuming he gets in shape and is in a mood to prove everyone wrong. He seemed to take pretty well to NYC). Lin costs 2.5x what Felton does, so why do you need Lin? The Rockets drove up prices on two guys (he and Asik, and neither team bit on matching, so now they're stuck with two guys who are decent but aren't making them much of anything to worry about in the West).


Oh I don't know, had Dolan given him a generous contract before he even became a FA, I'm reckoning Lin would've signed it.

/But Dolan's a farking moron anyway.
//To paraphrase Joe Pesci (again): Dolan could fark up a cup of coffee
 
2012-10-02 05:02:15 PM

FireZs: This is what I'm talking about when I say that you give him zero benefit of the doubt. He leads his high school team to the state championship and gets zero scholarship offers, and it's HIS fault that he doesn't go to UCLA as a walk-on?


I'm just saying he could've gone to those schools and chosen to fight for that spot, trusting in his game (Which he said requires more than one time of being looked at to appreciate since he doesn't pop out athletically) to do his talking and get him that position. He chose to play it "safe" and get (probably) a free ride at Harvard and get to be top dog there. Which is a hell of a great "play it safe" for anyone to have.
 
2012-10-02 05:13:14 PM

IAmRight: I'm just saying he could've gone to those schools and chosen to fight for that spot, trusting in his game (Which he said requires more than one time of being looked at to appreciate since he doesn't pop out athletically) to do his talking and get him that position. He chose to play it "safe" and get (probably) a free ride at Harvard and get to be top dog there. Which is a hell of a great "play it safe" for anyone to have.


Yes, it's all his fault, of course. It just makes perfect sense that he, a state champion, was offered zero scholarship. That was what was supposed to happen. That he didn't do what we don't expect anyone else counts against him infinitely. He failed to be the overachiever we expected him to be. What a loser.
 
2012-10-02 06:46:34 PM
www.theshaunsays.com
 
2012-10-02 07:27:27 PM

FireZs: Yes, it's all his fault, of course. It just makes perfect sense that he, a state champion, was offered zero scholarship.


Lots of state champions don't get scholarships. You don't seem to understand that there's a long way from "not offered scholarships" to "wasn't considered worth the time" or "no one was interested in him."

The guy was focused on getting into a legitimate academic powerhouse first, then playing basketball close second - he sent video of himself to the Ivy League, Stanford, Cal, and UCLA. Those are all academic powers. The Pac-10 schools liked him enough to allow him to try out (no, they don't just let anyone try out). Harvard and Brown guaranteed him spots. I don't "blame" him for choosing Harvard - who the hell wouldn't choose a free ride to Harvard AND a guarantee that you'll be able to play your favorite sport for four years?

I'm simply saying that the narrative that no one wanted him is horsesh*t and the reasons for him "flying under the radar" include decisions he consciously chose that kept him out of it. Just like the narrative that "oh, no one drafted him, therefore no one was interested" is untrue. There are two rounds of the NBA draft. Many players who go on to be solid role players (Lin's likely ceiling) go undrafted because of similar reasons - no off-the-charts measurables. The fact that he came from a conference that hadn't had a guy in the league since before he was in college, a school that hadn't had a guy in the league since before Bill Russell was in the NBA...that's obviously not helping.

Had he gone to Stanford and shone? Yeah, he becomes a (relatively) big name in college, especially playing with the Lopez boys. But he chose to take the sure thing instead of gamble. WHICH AGAIN IS NOT A BAD THING. It just damages your chances of getting in the league.
 
2012-10-03 02:57:11 AM
He wasn't just a "state champion". He was first team all state for California. I'm not sure if there have been many (if not any) people that made first team all state here and not gotten some D1 scholarship offer from somewhere.

Harvard doesn't offer athletic scholarships. He chose to go there after not getting any other D1 offers (Harvard and Brown offered a spot on their basketball teams, but neither offered a scholarship, because they don't offer athletic scholarships).
 
2012-10-03 10:40:48 AM

tenton: Harvard doesn't offer athletic scholarships. He chose to go there after not getting any other D1 offers (Harvard and Brown offered a spot on their basketball teams, but neither offered a scholarship, because they don't offer athletic scholarships).


The only schools he tried to get into were Ivy League or other top-20 national universities Stanford, UCLA, and Cal-Berkeley. The three schools he wanted to get into in California offered him the ability to walk-on. Even his Harvard coaches said he was the weakest kid on the team when he got to Harvard and throughout his freshman year.

Oh, and if you think that Harvard and other Ivies don't come up with academic scholarships for athletes that they aren't allowed to give athletic scholarships to (though you actually have to qualify to be in the school, and Lin was obviously qualified, hence his targeted schools), I've got a bridge to sell you.
 
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