If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(RotoExperts)   Miguel Cabrera may win the AL Triple Crown but someone else in the AL had a better year. Wait... What?   (rotoexperts.com) divider line 612
    More: Interesting, fantasy baseball, Fantasy Baseball MVP, AL Triple Crown, Miguel Cabrera, American League, MVP, fantasy, Carl Yastrzemski  
•       •       •

2761 clicks; posted to Sports » on 02 Oct 2012 at 11:51 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



612 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-10-02 09:59:49 AM
A 44-run margin in stolen bases?
 
2012-10-02 10:44:53 AM
Go to any of the popular that host games, CBSSportsline, ESPN, Yahoo or whoever you use and see who is ranked first. You'll find that Mike Trout is #1, Ryan (shouldn't get the 2012 NL MVP) Braun is #2 and Miguel Cabrera is #3.

Well, that settles it. Mike Trout is automatically AL MVP because he's ranked #1 in Yahoo Fantasy Sports.

Better luck next year, Cabrera.
 
2012-10-02 10:51:34 AM
This all sounds fishy.
 
2012-10-02 11:44:06 AM
 
2012-10-02 11:51:39 AM
Cabrera's having a slightly better year at the plate (negligible differences in BA and OBP, better SLG by about 45 points) but Trout is ludicrously better in the field and on the bases. Plus Trout has a legitimate shot at a 30/50 season despite spending the first month in the minors.

Not that I believe team success should matter much, but as far as the playoff argument is concerned: The Angels have a better record than the Tigers even though they're not going to the playoffs and the Tigers are. And the Angels were something like 6-14 when they brought Trout up, so clearly they've been a lot better with him.

I still think a Triple Crown is amazing even though RBI's aren't what we thought they were. But I'd give the MVP to Trout.
 
2012-10-02 11:53:09 AM
oh hey, it's this thread again
 
2012-10-02 11:54:44 AM
No, I'm not a Miggy hater because he's a drunk.

then why did you even bring it up moron
 
2012-10-02 11:58:24 AM
Someone, somewhere, is attempting to get DeWayne Mann's head to explode before the end of the week.
 
2012-10-02 12:00:29 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: No, I'm not a Miggy hater because he's a drunk.

then why did you even bring it up moron


especially since the article he linked to paints miggy smalls as showing heroic restraint despite being literally doused in alcohol. he's not a drunk, he's a recovering alcoholic, asshole.
 
2012-10-02 12:00:31 PM
WAR what is it good? Absolutely nothing except ruining baseball arguments.

How do you even calculate it and is it a sound calculation? I'm sure fark sabremetricians know.
 
2012-10-02 12:04:11 PM

Joe_diGriz: Someone, somewhere, is attempting to get DeWayne Mann's head to explode before the end of the week.


That wouldn't be too difficult. He has a very tenuous hold on reality as it is.
 
2012-10-02 12:04:17 PM
Ask Kemp about Braun last year
 
2012-10-02 12:04:17 PM
You know, people who play video games are only ACCUSED of mistaking fantasy for reality.
 
2012-10-02 12:09:32 PM

Joe_diGriz: Someone, somewhere, is attempting to get DeWayne Mann's head to explode before the end of the week.


I can't wait for the headline saying Gio should get the Cy Young because of his wins.or Kershaw because of ERA
 
2012-10-02 12:10:11 PM

FreakinB: Cabrera's having a slightly better year at the plate (negligible differences in BA and OBP, better SLG by about 45 points) but Trout is ludicrously better in the field and on the bases. Plus Trout has a legitimate shot at a 30/50 season despite spending the first month in the minors.

Not that I believe team success should matter much, but as far as the playoff argument is concerned: The Angels have a better record than the Tigers even though they're not going to the playoffs and the Tigers are. And the Angels were something like 6-14 when they brought Trout up, so clearly they've been a lot better with him.

I still think a Triple Crown is amazing even though RBI's aren't what we thought they were. But I'd give the MVP to Trout.


Get your logic out of here. It's not welcome
 
2012-10-02 12:10:22 PM
also this guy is such a relativist hipster douchebag
 
2012-10-02 12:11:04 PM
We're now using fantasy stats to determine the league MVP's?

I hope to God that writer doesn't have an MVP vote.
 
2012-10-02 12:15:22 PM
I like it when defense is taken into account.
 
2012-10-02 12:16:35 PM
How many rings did Oakland win with all those numbers and calculations?
 
2012-10-02 12:21:59 PM

professorkowalski: We're now using fantasy stats to determine the league MVP's?

I hope to God that writer doesn't have an MVP vote.


Batting average, rbi, hr, runs, and stolen bases isn't a good way to determine the MVP?
 
2012-10-02 12:23:33 PM
Trout is batting 80 points lower since August 1st than he was batting on August 1st. MVPs don't do that.
 
2012-10-02 12:24:13 PM
seems clear from the statistics that trout is nearly as valuable as cabrera.
 
2012-10-02 12:24:39 PM

FreakinB: Cabrera's having a slightly better year at the plate (negligible differences in BA and OBP, better SLG by about 45 points) but Trout is ludicrously better in the field and on the bases. Plus Trout has a legitimate shot at a 30/50 season despite spending the first month in the minors.

Not that I believe team success should matter much, but as far as the playoff argument is concerned: The Angels have a better record than the Tigers even though they're not going to the playoffs and the Tigers are. And the Angels were something like 6-14 when they brought Trout up, so clearly they've been a lot better with him.

I still think a Triple Crown is amazing even though RBI's aren't what we thought they were. But I'd give the MVP to Trout.


Because I think you missed last night's thread, let me summarize the highlights:

1) You like Trout because you're a racist.

2) Miguel Cabrera deserves credit for moving to third base, a position he's never played before because who knows what he was doing before he came to the Tigers, it's a mystery!

3) Miguel Cabrera is 3rd in fielding percentage among third baseman, and Trout is fifth among CFs. So Cabrera wins. After all, we know he's a monster defensive third baseman. We couldn't possibly have seen him suck at third base for a few years with the Marlins, because who knows what he was doing before he came to the Tigers, it's a mystery!
 
2012-10-02 12:30:51 PM

The Gentleman Caller: How many rings did Oakland win with all those numbers and calculations?


*sigh*

In a (vain) attempt to not get too deeply into this, Moneyball was never about "winning rings". That's literally impossible to predict; there is no such formula, as once you reach the postseason, "anything can happen" takes over. All it takes to upset expectations in a short series is a bad outing or two by an ace, a no-name outfielder suddenly channeling Babe Ruth, or some fluky plays and bounces.

Moneyball was, instead, a way of looking for undervalued attributes and methods that would give the ball club a better chance to *compete* with other teams. OBP was the biggest one initially, but there are others.
 
2012-10-02 12:30:58 PM

Dafatone: 2) Miguel Cabrera deserves credit for moving to third base, a position he's never played before


actually he never played 1B before going to detroit
he was 3B/OF in FLA
 
2012-10-02 12:32:11 PM

Hoopy Frood: Trout is batting 80 points lower since August 1st than he was batting on August 1st. MVPs don't do that.


If you haven't noticed, all the categories where Miggy easily beats out Trout don't count.
 
2012-10-02 12:33:47 PM
Jesus, Trout even has a higher walk rate than Cabrera. That I didn't expect.
 
2012-10-02 12:33:50 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: Dafatone: 2) Miguel Cabrera deserves credit for moving to third base, a position he's never played before

actually he never played 1B before going to detroit
he was 3B/OF in FLA


Um. Read what I said again?

In the previous thread, someone said that it was admirable that Cabrera moved to a position he'd never played before.
 
2012-10-02 12:34:09 PM

FreakinB: Cabrera's having a slightly better year at the plate (negligible differences in BA and OBP, better SLG by about 45 points) but Trout is ludicrously better in the field and on the bases. Plus Trout has a legitimate shot at a 30/50 season despite spending the first month in the minors.

Not that I believe team success should matter much, but as far as the playoff argument is concerned: The Angels have a better record than the Tigers even though they're not going to the playoffs and the Tigers are. And the Angels were something like 6-14 when they brought Trout up, so clearly they've been a lot better with him.

I still think a Triple Crown is amazing even though RBI's aren't what we thought they were. But I'd give the MVP to Trout.


I fail to see how OBP could be important and RBIs aren't. You still need to score more runs than the other team. What are they gonna do, steal home? Score on double-plays and errors?
 
2012-10-02 12:34:35 PM

The Gentleman Caller: How many rings did Oakland win with all those numbers and calculations?


This shouldn't need to be repeated anymore but: The accomplishment is getting to the playoffs in the first place. When your payroll is 1/3 of other teams, just getting there on a consistent basis is amazing.

Hoopy Frood: Trout is batting 80 points lower since August 1st than he was batting on August 1st. MVPs don't do that.


Legitimate point. Not one that I personally buy into so much (early games count too), but there is something to be said for that. Doesn't swing it away from Trout for me though.

Dafatone: Because I think you missed last night's thread, let me summarize the highlights:


Oh. Oh my.
 
2012-10-02 12:35:44 PM

Hoopy Frood: FreakinB: Cabrera's having a slightly better year at the plate (negligible differences in BA and OBP, better SLG by about 45 points) but Trout is ludicrously better in the field and on the bases. Plus Trout has a legitimate shot at a 30/50 season despite spending the first month in the minors.

Not that I believe team success should matter much, but as far as the playoff argument is concerned: The Angels have a better record than the Tigers even though they're not going to the playoffs and the Tigers are. And the Angels were something like 6-14 when they brought Trout up, so clearly they've been a lot better with him.

I still think a Triple Crown is amazing even though RBI's aren't what we thought they were. But I'd give the MVP to Trout.

I fail to see how OBP could be important and RBIs aren't. You still need to score more runs than the other team. What are they gonna do, steal home? Score on double-plays and errors?


RBIs are important. You need runs to win.

But they're not necessarily a sign that a player is good. Good + men on base when you're up = RBIs.

Also, some runs score without RBIs. No runs score with runs (the stat). But nobody gives the slightest fark about runs, which is silly.
 
2012-10-02 12:36:50 PM

Hoopy Frood: I fail to see how OBP could be important and RBIs aren't


You have more control over your OBP than you do how many RBIs you knock in.

If Austin Jackson doesn't have the good year he has had in 2012, for instance, Cabrera doesn't have as many RBI opportunities.
 
2012-10-02 12:37:01 PM
Trout since Aug1st:

.284 12Hrs 28RBI

Miguel since Aug 1st:

.343 19HRs 52 RBIs

Trout has near double the Ks in the period as well.. OMG The sabre-horror!

I give it to Cabrera
 
2012-10-02 12:37:09 PM

Hoopy Frood: I fail to see how OBP could be important and RBIs aren't. You still need to score more runs than the other team. What are they gonna do, steal home? Score on double-plays and errors?


Then you also can't discount runs scored, either. Guess who has the lead in that? (by 20, I might add) Of course, you can't score runs if you're not on base in the first place....
 
2012-10-02 12:39:24 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: No, I'm not a Miggy hater because he's a drunk.

then why did you even bring it up moron



Thought experiment: Try to visualize seeing this similar sentence being written anywhere by anyone about the AL MVP race:

No, I'm not a Josh Hamilton hater because he's a drug addict.

Can't do it, can you?

I'm not calling anyone an out-an-out racist here, but if you don't think there's a double standard when it comes to Latino vs. white players, and you don't think there's a tinge of the age-old "Great White Hope" angle to this whole Trout vs. Cabrera thing, you're fooling yourself.

That's not to say Trout isn't deserving of the MVP, but let's not cover our eyes here.
 
2012-10-02 12:39:48 PM

Hoopy Frood: FreakinB: Cabrera's having a slightly better year at the plate (negligible differences in BA and OBP, better SLG by about 45 points) but Trout is ludicrously better in the field and on the bases. Plus Trout has a legitimate shot at a 30/50 season despite spending the first month in the minors.

Not that I believe team success should matter much, but as far as the playoff argument is concerned: The Angels have a better record than the Tigers even though they're not going to the playoffs and the Tigers are. And the Angels were something like 6-14 when they brought Trout up, so clearly they've been a lot better with him.

I still think a Triple Crown is amazing even though RBI's aren't what we thought they were. But I'd give the MVP to Trout.

I fail to see how OBP could be important and RBIs aren't. You still need to score more runs than the other team. What are they gonna do, steal home? Score on double-plays and errors?


Because OBP entirely controlled by the hitter, whereas RBI's are at least partially dependent on how many runners got on base ahead of said hitter. If a leadoff hitter hits exactly the same as a cleanup hitter, he'll have fewer RBI's simply by virtue of having fewer guys on base. If a guy on the 2010 Mariners hits exactly the same as a guy on a team with reasonable major league hitting, same thing.

It's not that driving in runs isn't important. It's just that there are more factors than the batter's own performance.
 
2012-10-02 12:39:59 PM
If Trout was really so deserving of the MVP, shouldn't his .OPS be better than that of Cabrera?
 
2012-10-02 12:41:07 PM

professorkowalski: If Trout was really so deserving of the MVP, shouldn't his .OPS be better than that of Cabrera?


Defense and baserunning.
 
2012-10-02 12:41:19 PM

Dafatone: Also, some runs score without RBIs. No runs score with runs (the stat). But nobody gives the slightest fark about runs, which is silly.


Runs and RBIs go hand and hand and both should hold near equal value.

You can't get a Run (w/o a HR) unless somebody else bats you in, you can't get an RBI w/o somebody on base.

If somebody gets a walk and then the next guy hits a double and drives him in, I give most of the credit to the guy who hits the double.

Trout has 212 Runs and RBIs; Miggy has 246
 
2012-10-02 12:42:21 PM
Over the past two months, Miggy has something like 50 points higher BA, more home runs, and a 200 point lead in OPS.

Trout has fallen off and his team is out of the playoff race. The Tigers overtook the Sox and are in the playoffs.

The end.
 
2012-10-02 12:42:31 PM

MugzyBrown: Trout since Aug1st:

.284 12Hrs 28RBI

Miguel since Aug 1st:

.343 19HRs 52 RBIs

Trout has near double the Ks in the period as well.. OMG The sabre-horror!

I give it to Cabrera


Gasp! A leadoff hitter doesn't have as many RBI as a middle of the order hitter!

Trout's up 7 runs (not exactly a ton) and 17 stolen bases (a ton). He's been caught once.
 
2012-10-02 12:43:43 PM

FreakinB: Cabrera's having a slightly better year at the plate (negligible differences in BA and OBP, better SLG by about 45 points) but Trout is ludicrously better in the field and on the bases. Plus Trout has a legitimate shot at a 30/50 season despite spending the first month in the minors.

Not that I believe team success should matter much, but as far as the playoff argument is concerned: The Angels have a better record than the Tigers even though they're not going to the playoffs and the Tigers are. And the Angels were something like 6-14 when they brought Trout up, so clearly they've been a lot better with him.

I still think a Triple Crown is amazing even though RBI's aren't what we thought they were. But I'd give the MVP to Trout.


The Triple Crown isn't the reason to vote for Cabrera. His stats late in games, with two outs and runners in scoring position, and late in the season when the team was fighting for a playoff spot are what's important.

Your team is down a run, there's guys at 2nd and 3rd and it's the bottom of the 9th, two outs. Who do you want stepping to the plate? Miguel Cabrera or Mike Trout?

That's the primary support for Cabrera as MVP.
 
2012-10-02 12:43:47 PM

FreakinB: Because OBP entirely controlled by the hitter, whereas RBI's are at least partially dependent on how many runners got on base ahead of said hitter. If a leadoff hitter hits exactly the same as a cleanup hitter, he'll have fewer RBI's simply by virtue of having fewer guys on base. If a guy on the 2010 Mariners hits exactly the same as a guy on a team with reasonable major league hitting, same thing.


Not really true.

A walk can be the result of a wild pitcher.. a single can be the result of a poor infield.

And people take into account a players spot in the lineup when compairing stats. If a leadoff hitter has 70 RBIs and 140 Runs, and the clean up guy has 100 RBIs and 80 Runs, people aren't going to just look at the clean up hitter.
 
2012-10-02 12:44:05 PM

sigdiamond2000: That's not to say Trout isn't deserving of the MVP, but let's not cover our eyes here.


If you want to argue there's latent racism throughout baseball, that's a perfectly viable discussion in its own merit. Personally, I think if there's any prejudice being laid upon Cabrera, it's because of his past off-the-field problems moreso than his race.
 
2012-10-02 12:44:06 PM

FreakinB: Defense and baserunning.


3B is infinitely harder to play than CF.
 
2012-10-02 12:44:16 PM

FreakinB: It's not that driving in runs isn't important. It's just that there are more factors than the batter's own performance.


this is true, but you also want some way to indicate that a player who doubles when a runner was on first and two out has somehow outperformed the player who merely singled... and did so in a way that isn't just reflected in total bases...
 
2012-10-02 12:44:50 PM
Gasp! A leadoff hitter doesn't have as many RBI as a middle of the order hitter!

Trout's up 7 runs (not exactly a ton) and 17 stolen bases (a ton). He's been caught once.


And how about 60 pts in the average and HRs?

Oh that's nothing!
 
2012-10-02 12:46:24 PM

thomps: Dead for Tax Reasons: No, I'm not a Miggy hater because he's a drunk.

then why did you even bring it up moron

especially since the article he linked to paints miggy smalls as showing heroic restraint despite being literally doused in alcohol. he's not a drunk, he's a recovering alcoholic, asshole.


Interesting notes about the Tigers champagne-spray yesterday: 1) It was alcohol-free wine; 2) Cabrera wasn't in the room while they were doing it.
 
2012-10-02 12:46:26 PM

FreakinB: Dafatone: Because I think you missed last night's thread, let me summarize the highlights:

Oh. Oh my.


Oh wait! I forgot the best one!

That you can't really count stolen bases, because in today's game, who knows which managers are giving players the green light and which aren't.
 
2012-10-02 12:46:55 PM

Dafatone: 2) Miguel Cabrera deserves credit for moving to third base, a position he's never played before because who knows what he was doing before he came to the Tigers, it's a mystery!


This isn't a totally bullshiat point. By moving to 3b, he freed up an infield spot for Prince and left the DH spot open for someone else. Without that move, Prince is the DH, Delmon Young is in left, Brandon Inge is at 3b, and the Tigers don't get VMart in the DH slot next year. There was value in Cabrera doing what was best for the team when a player of his stature could have easily said no. His agreeing to the move was probably what prompted the Tigers to sign Prince, since Prince said he did not want to be a full time DH. Where would the Tigers be without Prince AND VMart this year?
 
Displayed 50 of 612 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report