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(WorldNetDaily)   This one has it all: death panels, George Soros, an Obamacare proponent, and out-of-context, made-up quotes. I don't know what's in the water cooler at WND, but it has to be something good   (wnd.com) divider line 12
    More: Silly, Jonathan Soros, obamacare, WND, Steven Rattner, Independent Payment Advisory Board, death panels, President Obama, Ford Foundation  
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1348 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Oct 2012 at 1:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-02 01:51:50 PM
3 votes:

gingerjet: mrshowrules: Also, at least in a single-payer model, the Government can make a business case (based on reducing costs) to promote healthy lifestyle choices. When is the last time you've seen an insurance company run a PSA for healthy food choices for instance. You are looking at the problem from within the box. I suggest you talk to more people who live outside the US regarding their personal experiences with their respective health care systems. The best thing about the US health care system is the health care services themselves. It is only your funding model which is completely farked.

Having spent the last three years working for a health insurance company - all the fark'n time. We had billboard advertisements, tv commercials, sponsorships, etc. When people make better lifestyle choices and don't go to the hospital it lowers their costs. You couldn't throw a dead cat without hitting one of our advertisements for healthy living.

But I have a real problem with your overall point. The problem with centralizing health insurance in a country as large as the US is that it ends up a huge bureaucracy unable to quickly change or make decisions, or properly detect fraud. Hell Medicare just implemented its first data analysis system to detect fraud just this year. That's insane. Let the government pass reasonable laws (pre-existing conditions, tax breaks for all - not just corporations, etc) but keep insurance in private hands.


Yes, private insurance companies are certainly better able to quickly decide to deny patients treatment to keep corporate profits as high as possible.
2012-10-02 10:45:49 AM
3 votes:

serial_crusher: Look, I lean pretty far to the right in most cases, and I agree that death panels are necessary. I don't want my tax dollars keeping some fossilized vegetable on life support.


Death panels are neither real or necessary. With proper single-payer, billable costs are no longer the driver. End-of-life care is decided between the doctor, patient and family based on quality of life and dignity. Those three parties are the only panel involved. Period. I've lost both a Father and brother in Canada and that was my experience and the experience of the Canadians I have talked to on this subject.

Whatever is decided should have nothing to do with cost which is largely artificial anyways.
2012-10-02 10:32:16 AM
3 votes:
My work has now blocked WND.

YOU HAVE ATTEMPTED TO ACCESS A BLOCKED SITE

WND is now on a death panel. And I couldn't be happier.
2012-10-02 01:23:14 PM
2 votes:
If Wingnut Daily said the sun was going to rise in the East, I'd have to check at least twice to make sure, and even then I'd think something was wrong.
2012-10-02 12:33:15 PM
2 votes:

Gulper Eel: This must be truly magical, and the first time in recorded history that immense power has been increasingly concentrated in one central authority and it has become less corrupt - in other words, citation needed.


That was huge wall of text. Let me just say broadly, when you remove money/profit from a system it becomes less corrupt. It might suffer in inefficiencies and outcomes but generally speaking it is less corrupt. Think of fire departments today and when it was private service (incredibly corrupt BTW). Eliminate private insurance for basic health care would result in less corruption IMHO.

The other topic you raise is life style and personal responsibility. I would suggest to you that this issue is a problem independent of your your health care funding model. Canada isn't far behind the US in treating their bodies like shiat. The cost of this is being relayed to the general public whether it is through your premiums or through your taxes (in single-payer). Regardless of you big of a factor this is, it is twice as expensive in a private insurance model than a single payer model. That is just a fact.

Also, at least in a single-payer model, the Government can make a business case (based on reducing costs) to promote healthy lifestyle choices. When is the last time you've seen an insurance company run a PSA for healthy food choices for instance. You are looking at the problem from within the box. I suggest you talk to more people who live outside the US regarding their personal experiences with their respective health care systems. The best thing about the US health care system is the health care services themselves. It is only your funding model which is completely farked.
2012-10-02 03:15:46 PM
1 votes:

rufus-t-firefly: Philip Francis Queeg: Yes, private insurance companies are certainly better able to quickly decide to deny patients treatment to keep corporate profits as high as possible.

One particular genius in the comments gave us this:

insurance companies by law have to be profitable, they're just doing what it says to do in the constitution.

I just...wow.


psst.. ;) from GIS of piekko www.atsiivouspalvelut.fi
2012-10-02 02:52:42 PM
1 votes:
Here, so you no give clicky....


A top Democrat strategist and donor who served as President Obama's lead auto-industry adviser recently conceded that the rationing of heath services under Obamacare is "inevitable."

Steven Rattner advocated that such rationing should target elderly patients, while stating, "We need death panels."

Rattner serves on the board the New America Foundation, or NAF, a George Soros-funded think tank that was instrumental in supporting Obamacare in 2010. Soros' son, financier Jonathan Soros, is also a member of the foundation's board.

Rattner was the so-called "car czar," the lead auto adviser to the Treasury Department under Obama.

Last month, Rattner penned an opinion piece in the New York Times titled "Beyond Obamacare" in which he proclaimed "We need death panels" and argued rationing must be instructed to sustain Obama's health-care plan. His comments have been virtually ignored by traditional media as the president campaign's for a second term.

"We need death panels," began Rattner. "Well, maybe not death panels, exactly, but unless we start allocating health-care resources more prudently - rationing, by its proper name - the exploding cost of Medicare will swamp the federal budget."

Read all about the idea of "Medical Murder" and find out what Barack Obama would do in a second term, in "Fool Me Twice."

Continued Rattner: "But in the pantheon of toxic issues - the famous 'third rail' of American politics - none stands taller than overtly acknowledging that elderly Americans are not entitled to every conceivable medical procedure or pharmaceutical."

Rattner lamented how Obama's Affordable Care Act "regrettably includes severe restrictions on any reduction in Medicare services or increase in fees to beneficiaries."

Rattner said the numbers don't add up unless Obamacare utilizes rationing.

"If his Independent Payment Advisory Board comes up with savings, Congress must accept either them or vote for an equivalent package," stated Rattner. "The problem is, the advisory board can't propose reducing benefits (a k a rationing) or raising fees (another form of rationing), without which the spending target looms impossibly large."

Rattner singled out elderly patients for benefit cuts.

He wrote: "No one wants to lose an aging parent. And with price out of the equation, it's natural for patients and their families to try every treatment, regardless of expense or efficacy. But that imposes an enormous societal cost that few other nations have been willing to bear. Many countries whose health care systems are regularly extolled - including Canada, Australia and New Zealand - have systems for rationing care."

He concluded, "At the least, the Independent Payment Advisory Board should be allowed to offer changes in services and costs."

"We may shrink from such stomach-wrenching choices, but they are inescapable."

Rattner serves on the NAF's 22-person board of directors alongside Jonathan Soros, CNN's Fareed Zakaria and Google's Eric Schmidt.

Soros' Open Society Foundation is a primary donor to the NAF.

Other major donors include the Ben & Jerry's Foundation, the Carnegie Corporation of New York, the Ford Foundation, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Google Inc. and the Rockefeller Foundation.

Another donor is Free Press, a group that advocates for more government control of the airwaves and Internet.

Free Press is also funded by Soros. Free Press was founded by Robert W. McChesney, an avowed Marxist who has recommended capitalism be dismantled "brick by brick."

The NAF, meanwhile, bills itself as bipartisan and "the radical center."

NAF fellow Michael Lind wrote, "Our goal [is] not to repeal the New Deal [of Franklin Roosevelt] but to adapt it to the circumstances of the 21st century."

Discover The Networks notes how the NAF approved of Obamacare because it would "offer a new image" of how Americans view dying; and it would help "patients and their families to recognize" that, "[S]ometimes 'doing everything' results in more burden than benefit. High-tech medicine can prolong life, but for some patients, it merely draws out the process of dying."
2012-10-02 02:34:15 PM
1 votes:

Rann Xerox: WND: "Our motto is: 'THERE ARE

SEVEN LIGHTS AND A FLYING BIOLUMINESCENT SQUID NAMED CLARENCE!!"

Not so much "fixed" as "more properly embellished to reflect the situation."
2012-10-02 02:06:47 PM
1 votes:
You know what hospice care really is? A Death Panel.
2012-10-02 01:53:07 PM
1 votes:
Level 1 Derp.- George Soros is behind the Obama Admnisitration to turn the US into a socialist state

Level 2 Derp.- ... While George Soros consults with his overlords in the UN to emulate his experiment in the rest of the Western World

Level 3 Derp.- ... Experiment that was first created by the Bildebergs and the Rockefellers, in an attempt to destroy Nazi Germany, and the Russian Tsars so the Jews can wipe out the Aryan race.

Level 4 Derp.- ... All to bring about the return of the Lizard People

Level 5 Derp.- Who in turn will summon the Anunaki (and therefore, Satan) through the Van Allen Belt, and cause Armageddon

/Seriously
//THAT's the slippery slope you go into when you start thinking that the Birthers have the right idea
2012-10-02 01:52:28 PM
1 votes:

stpauler: My work has now blocked WND.

YOU HAVE ATTEMPTED TO ACCESS A BLOCKED SITE

WND is now on a death panel. And I couldn't be happier.


Hell, I wouldn't even attempt to click on that from work.
2012-10-02 01:09:21 PM
1 votes:
i1079.photobucket.com
 
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