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(WorldNetDaily)   This one has it all: death panels, George Soros, an Obamacare proponent, and out-of-context, made-up quotes. I don't know what's in the water cooler at WND, but it has to be something good   (wnd.com) divider line 60
    More: Silly, Jonathan Soros, obamacare, WND, Steven Rattner, Independent Payment Advisory Board, death panels, President Obama, Ford Foundation  
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1346 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Oct 2012 at 1:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-02 10:24:09 AM
You can tell the Obama team is confident about the election by the fact that they're not waiting until the second term to talk about implementing death panels.
 
2012-10-02 10:31:59 AM
Look, I lean pretty far to the right in most cases, and I agree that death panels are necessary. I don't want my tax dollars keeping some fossilized vegetable on life support.
 
2012-10-02 10:32:16 AM
My work has now blocked WND.

YOU HAVE ATTEMPTED TO ACCESS A BLOCKED SITE

WND is now on a death panel. And I couldn't be happier.
 
2012-10-02 10:36:49 AM

stpauler: My work has now blocked WND.

YOU HAVE ATTEMPTED TO ACCESS A BLOCKED SITE

WND is now on a death panel. And I couldn't be happier.


You clearly work for a socialist gay marrying Soros funded abortion factory then.
 
2012-10-02 10:45:49 AM

serial_crusher: Look, I lean pretty far to the right in most cases, and I agree that death panels are necessary. I don't want my tax dollars keeping some fossilized vegetable on life support.


Death panels are neither real or necessary. With proper single-payer, billable costs are no longer the driver. End-of-life care is decided between the doctor, patient and family based on quality of life and dignity. Those three parties are the only panel involved. Period. I've lost both a Father and brother in Canada and that was my experience and the experience of the Canadians I have talked to on this subject.

Whatever is decided should have nothing to do with cost which is largely artificial anyways.
 
2012-10-02 10:48:16 AM

stpauler: My work has now blocked WND.

YOU HAVE ATTEMPTED TO ACCESS A BLOCKED SITE

WND is now on a death panel. And I couldn't be happier.


Thanks, a**hole. Thinking we might be working for the same very large Washington DC based organization, I tried it and accidentally gave WND a click. Now I have to erase my browser history, sanitize my monitor and memorize the periodical table of the elements in hopes of erasing the taint.
 
2012-10-02 10:54:42 AM

mrshowrules: With proper single-payer, billable costs are no longer the driver.


Politics becomes the driver. That'll be so much better, given our leaders' long tradition of scrupulous honesty, competence, and prudence.
 
2012-10-02 11:03:57 AM

Gulper Eel: mrshowrules: With proper single-payer, billable costs are no longer the driver.

Politics becomes the driver. That'll be so much better, given our leaders' long tradition of scrupulous honesty, competence, and prudence.


It is counter-intuitive but single-payer takes most of the politics out of health care. Government role becomes more actuarial which is what it does best. They don't get involved in case-by-case decisions. That is the big lie the GOP is trying to sell. Look at Countries that have had single-payer for many years. There are problems and issues and many are political but none of them have to do with someone pulling the plug on Nanna. If the family and doctor want Nanna on life support she stays on life support.
 
2012-10-02 11:17:49 AM
This one has it all: death panels, George Soros, an Obamacare proponent, out-of-context, made-up quotes...

...C.H.U.D.s, a fat Hawaiian guy no one invited, human suitcases... 

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-02 11:22:41 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This one has it all: death panels, George Soros, an Obamacare proponent, out-of-context, made-up quotes...

...C.H.U.D.s, a fat Hawaiian guy no one invited, human suitcases... 

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 370x207]


+1
 
2012-10-02 11:55:53 AM

mrshowrules: It is counter-intuitive but single-payer takes most of the politics out of health care. Government role becomes more actuarial which is what it does best. They don't get involved in case-by-case decisions. That is the big lie the GOP is trying to sell. Look at Countries that have had single-payer for many years. There are problems and issues and many are political but none of them have to do with someone pulling the plug on Nanna. If the family and doctor want Nanna on life support she stays on life support.


This must be truly magical, and the first time in recorded history that immense power has been increasingly concentrated in one central authority and it has become less corrupt - in other words, citation needed.

From what I can tell, when it comes to end-of-life care, the US is in the middle of the pack, with some single-payer nations ahead and some behind.

And I don't have to look to Europe to see examples of political state-health-care failure. I see it here in my home state of New York - ever since Medicaid was created, New York has had a Medicaid system with all the bells and whistles. Add up California and Texas' budgets for Medicaid and it's less than New York's.

With all that state spending on health care, with all that coverage not provided in those mean old red states, we should be healthy as horses here, right? Not so much. New York finds itself in the middle of the pack on outcomes.

But you may be more right than you know that the state doesn't get involved in case-by-case decisions. New York simply approves 99.999991 percent of claims and when providers get biatchy about oversight, well...there goes the oversight. Ta-da! The state's not involved in case-by-case decisions...other than to cut checks to anybody who knows how to bill their bullshiat correctly. 

None of this is intended to praise the status quo, incidentally. There is nobody in our current leadership who should be stating the obvious - that the first and foremost party responsible for a person's health care is looking at them in the mirror. Then comes the doctor. After that, anything that a person is unable or (more likely) unwilling to take care of themselves becomes either a business decision or a political decision, and generally some combination of both.

My own ideal would be a hybrid of single-payer and private sector operations - the state provides the education and preventive-behavioral measures and maximize a person's ability to take care of certain situations with minimum medical-industrial complex's involvement (e.g. birth-control pills and a host of other low-side-effect medications should be OTC) - but having pointed people in the right direction, if they still prefer to go be fat or high or reckless drivers or drunk or promiscuous or nicotine-stained they can sort out the costs of potential consequences with their insurers. I'm sure they'll find it pleasant.

And I know that bangs up against the reality of a federal government that currently provides a "nutrition" program to poor people that drives them to max out on cheap processed crap even when they're trying to do the right thing with their benefits card. But they gotta eat, so eat the crap they must, they get fat, they wind up diabetic...but thankfully there's a government program to manage that, which incidentally provides a nice cash flow for the companies who sell management drugs, testing equipment and so forth.

With a "nutrition" program like that, I'm not sure I want to see what Uncle Sam's idea of "health care" is.

Notice that I said "manage" and not "cure" diabetes. A cure would kill the golden goose. Can't have that.
 
2012-10-02 12:33:15 PM

Gulper Eel: This must be truly magical, and the first time in recorded history that immense power has been increasingly concentrated in one central authority and it has become less corrupt - in other words, citation needed.


That was huge wall of text. Let me just say broadly, when you remove money/profit from a system it becomes less corrupt. It might suffer in inefficiencies and outcomes but generally speaking it is less corrupt. Think of fire departments today and when it was private service (incredibly corrupt BTW). Eliminate private insurance for basic health care would result in less corruption IMHO.

The other topic you raise is life style and personal responsibility. I would suggest to you that this issue is a problem independent of your your health care funding model. Canada isn't far behind the US in treating their bodies like shiat. The cost of this is being relayed to the general public whether it is through your premiums or through your taxes (in single-payer). Regardless of you big of a factor this is, it is twice as expensive in a private insurance model than a single payer model. That is just a fact.

Also, at least in a single-payer model, the Government can make a business case (based on reducing costs) to promote healthy lifestyle choices. When is the last time you've seen an insurance company run a PSA for healthy food choices for instance. You are looking at the problem from within the box. I suggest you talk to more people who live outside the US regarding their personal experiences with their respective health care systems. The best thing about the US health care system is the health care services themselves. It is only your funding model which is completely farked.
 
2012-10-02 01:09:21 PM
i1079.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-02 01:23:14 PM
If Wingnut Daily said the sun was going to rise in the East, I'd have to check at least twice to make sure, and even then I'd think something was wrong.
 
2012-10-02 01:23:20 PM
Made-up quotes can be out of context now?

Whodathunkit?
 
2012-10-02 01:24:36 PM

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: stpauler: My work has now blocked WND.

YOU HAVE ATTEMPTED TO ACCESS A BLOCKED SITE

WND is now on a death panel. And I couldn't be happier.

You clearly work for a socialist gay marrying Soros funded abortion factory then.


Are they hiring?
 
2012-10-02 01:29:50 PM
I don't want to give clicks.

I'm going to guess this is a lot of derp about how Obama is going to death panel grandma and grandpa in his 2nd term, doing the bidding of George Soros.
 
2012-10-02 01:33:25 PM

stpauler: My work has now blocked WND.

YOU HAVE ATTEMPTED TO ACCESS A BLOCKED SITE

WND is now on a death panel. And I couldn't be happier.


It's not like you need to be able to get to their site to read the article. 95% of WND greens have every relevant detail in the headline.
 
2012-10-02 01:35:04 PM
Exactly!

Why should there be a systematic and consistent method for deciding how to deploy a limited resource?!?!?!

I like the current system, where either a faceless insurance company decides, or you just die because you're poor even if your condition is curable. As god intended.
 
2012-10-02 01:35:09 PM
Scared, delusional and stupid is no way to go through life son.
 
2012-10-02 01:35:14 PM

StopLurkListen: I accidentally shaved my neighbor's pet wildebeest after urinating on their catamaran?

Whodathunkit?

 
2012-10-02 01:35:51 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This one has it all: death panels, George Soros, an Obamacare proponent, out-of-context, made-up quotes...

...C.H.U.D.s, a fat Hawaiian guy no one invited, human suitcases... 

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 370x207]


First thing that came to my mind as well.
/SPIIIIIIICEYYY
 
2012-10-02 01:37:15 PM
The reader comments are pretty gosh darn awesome.
 
2012-10-02 01:39:07 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: This one has it all: death panels, George Soros, an Obamacare proponent, out-of-context, made-up quotes...

...C.H.U.D.s, a fat Hawaiian guy no one invited, human suitcases... 



...glass, steam, bear-traps, and just when you think the fun is over, knock knock, who's there? it's black George Washington. All of that in a party room filled with human bath mats."
 
2012-10-02 01:44:38 PM

mrshowrules: Also, at least in a single-payer model, the Government can make a business case (based on reducing costs) to promote healthy lifestyle choices. When is the last time you've seen an insurance company run a PSA for healthy food choices for instance. You are looking at the problem from within the box. I suggest you talk to more people who live outside the US regarding their personal experiences with their respective health care systems. The best thing about the US health care system is the health care services themselves. It is only your funding model which is completely farked.


Having spent the last three years working for a health insurance company - all the fark'n time. We had billboard advertisements, tv commercials, sponsorships, etc. When people make better lifestyle choices and don't go to the hospital it lowers their costs. You couldn't throw a dead cat without hitting one of our advertisements for healthy living.

But I have a real problem with your overall point. The problem with centralizing health insurance in a country as large as the US is that it ends up a huge bureaucracy unable to quickly change or make decisions, or properly detect fraud. Hell Medicare just implemented its first data analysis system to detect fraud just this year. That's insane. Let the government pass reasonable laws (pre-existing conditions, tax breaks for all - not just corporations, etc) but keep insurance in private hands.
 
2012-10-02 01:45:56 PM
I never liked Grandma much anyways.
 
2012-10-02 01:46:57 PM

rjucksch: The reader comments are pretty gosh darn awesome.


This.

/I didn't realize so many people in my office were WND subscribers
 
2012-10-02 01:49:13 PM

mrshowrules: Death panels are neither real or necessary. With proper single-payer, billable costs are no longer the driver. End-of-life care is decided between the doctor, patient and family based on quality of life and dignity. Those three parties are the only panel involved. Period. I've lost both a Father and brother in Canada and that was my experience and the experience of the Canadians I have talked to on this subject.

Whatever is decided should have nothing to do with cost which is largely artificial anyways.


I disagree. Healthcare costs money. Both money and doctors are finite resources. All finite resources must be managed/optimized.

In a Utopia health care would be truly limitless and you be free to cling to life at incredible effort and expense for as long as you choose. We ain't there yet and probably aren't even close.

I don't like it, but it is the realistic view.
 
2012-10-02 01:49:18 PM

rjucksch: The reader comments are pretty gosh darn awesome.


Any of them a dogwhistle concerning Soros's relevance as a Jew?
 
2012-10-02 01:51:50 PM

gingerjet: mrshowrules: Also, at least in a single-payer model, the Government can make a business case (based on reducing costs) to promote healthy lifestyle choices. When is the last time you've seen an insurance company run a PSA for healthy food choices for instance. You are looking at the problem from within the box. I suggest you talk to more people who live outside the US regarding their personal experiences with their respective health care systems. The best thing about the US health care system is the health care services themselves. It is only your funding model which is completely farked.

Having spent the last three years working for a health insurance company - all the fark'n time. We had billboard advertisements, tv commercials, sponsorships, etc. When people make better lifestyle choices and don't go to the hospital it lowers their costs. You couldn't throw a dead cat without hitting one of our advertisements for healthy living.

But I have a real problem with your overall point. The problem with centralizing health insurance in a country as large as the US is that it ends up a huge bureaucracy unable to quickly change or make decisions, or properly detect fraud. Hell Medicare just implemented its first data analysis system to detect fraud just this year. That's insane. Let the government pass reasonable laws (pre-existing conditions, tax breaks for all - not just corporations, etc) but keep insurance in private hands.


Yes, private insurance companies are certainly better able to quickly decide to deny patients treatment to keep corporate profits as high as possible.
 
2012-10-02 01:52:28 PM

stpauler: My work has now blocked WND.

YOU HAVE ATTEMPTED TO ACCESS A BLOCKED SITE

WND is now on a death panel. And I couldn't be happier.


Hell, I wouldn't even attempt to click on that from work.
 
2012-10-02 01:53:07 PM
Level 1 Derp.- George Soros is behind the Obama Admnisitration to turn the US into a socialist state

Level 2 Derp.- ... While George Soros consults with his overlords in the UN to emulate his experiment in the rest of the Western World

Level 3 Derp.- ... Experiment that was first created by the Bildebergs and the Rockefellers, in an attempt to destroy Nazi Germany, and the Russian Tsars so the Jews can wipe out the Aryan race.

Level 4 Derp.- ... All to bring about the return of the Lizard People

Level 5 Derp.- Who in turn will summon the Anunaki (and therefore, Satan) through the Van Allen Belt, and cause Armageddon

/Seriously
//THAT's the slippery slope you go into when you start thinking that the Birthers have the right idea
 
2012-10-02 01:53:44 PM
Whatever's in the water, we know it makes you hump the floor.
 
2012-10-02 01:58:01 PM
Even more scary than that functional idiot that was able to stop fingering himself long enough to cobble this horrible piece of shiat article together, is there was a target audience out there who was receptive and is now linking it to FB and annoying everyone with a farking clue that they know. If death panels are needed it's for the author and anyone that would read this and take it as fact.
 
2012-10-02 01:59:51 PM
How about Death Algorithms? Having a panel of humans making decisions is downright rude, let's have computers killing out elderly.
 
2012-10-02 02:00:18 PM
Folks, I know you don't normally click on WND articles, but do yourself a favor. Occasionally, go ahead, click on the link, then read everything in Phil Hartman's voice. It is guaranteed to brighten your day, then make you sad.
 
2012-10-02 02:02:46 PM

wildcardjack: How about Death Algorithms? Having a panel of humans making decisions is downright rude, let's have computers killing out elderly.


I thought the robots were already doing that by eating their diabeetus meds.
 
2012-10-02 02:04:58 PM
Actually, forget the article - just read the comments as Bill McNeil or Troy McClure. Instead of enraging, they become hilarious:

"Why should there be a death panel when Soros has plenty of money to help people get the treatment they need?"
"Michele Bachman WAS RIGHT! Of course, they need death panels. Health care gets more expensive every day because even illegals use it. Don't think Obamacare is going to stop people from using the emergency room."
"Did Dear Leader lie again? Well, yes he did! Shocking!"
"History gave us the extermination of the jews under Hitler. Obamacare could deliver the extermination of the elderly. And voters in Florida favor Obama - or is it just the lying media?"
 
2012-10-02 02:06:45 PM
WND: "Our motto is: 'THERE ARE FIVE LIGHTS!!'"
 
2012-10-02 02:06:47 PM
You know what hospice care really is? A Death Panel.
 
2012-10-02 02:09:12 PM
is there death wallpaper ?
 
2012-10-02 02:13:09 PM
Even if you are a dyed-in-the-wool, true believing Republican one would think you'd at least be a little insulted by being continuously asked to believe DERP from most of the GOP media outlets.
 
2012-10-02 02:15:50 PM

phritz: Actually, forget the article - just read the comments as Bill McNeil or Troy McClure. Instead of enraging, they become hilarious:

"Why should there be a death panel when Soros has plenty of money to help people get the treatment they need?"
"Michele Bachman WAS RIGHT! Of course, they need death panels. Health care gets more expensive every day because even illegals use it. Don't think Obamacare is going to stop people from using the emergency room."
"Did Dear Leader lie again? Well, yes he did! Shocking!"
"History gave us the extermination of the jews under Hitler. Obamacare could deliver the extermination of the elderly. And voters in Florida favor Obama - or is it just the lying media?"


the comments are usually the fun part, they tend to make the articles themselves seem intelligent.
 
2012-10-02 02:21:24 PM

phritz: Actually, forget the article - just read the comments as Bill McNeil or Troy McClure. Instead of enraging, they become hilarious:

"Why should there be a death panel when Soros has plenty of money to help people get the treatment they need?"
"Michele Bachman WAS RIGHT! Of course, they need death panels. Health care gets more expensive every day because even illegals use it. Don't think Obamacare is going to stop people from using the emergency room."
"Did Dear Leader lie again? Well, yes he did! Shocking!"
"History gave us the extermination of the jews under Hitler. Obamacare could deliver the extermination of the elderly. And voters in Florida favor Obama - or is it just the lying media?"


I'm reading with with Zapp Branigan's voice. Just as funny.
 
2012-10-02 02:34:15 PM

Rann Xerox: WND: "Our motto is: 'THERE ARE

SEVEN LIGHTS AND A FLYING BIOLUMINESCENT SQUID NAMED CLARENCE!!"

Not so much "fixed" as "more properly embellished to reflect the situation."
 
2012-10-02 02:44:48 PM
Precious Roy's Horse Dividers:
stpauler: My work has now blocked WND.

YOU HAVE ATTEMPTED TO ACCESS A BLOCKED SITE

WND is now on a death panel. And I couldn't be happier.

You clearly work for a socialist gay marrying Soros funded abortion factory then.


At least he'll have a guaranteed job for the next four years.
 
2012-10-02 02:52:42 PM
Here, so you no give clicky....


A top Democrat strategist and donor who served as President Obama's lead auto-industry adviser recently conceded that the rationing of heath services under Obamacare is "inevitable."

Steven Rattner advocated that such rationing should target elderly patients, while stating, "We need death panels."

Rattner serves on the board the New America Foundation, or NAF, a George Soros-funded think tank that was instrumental in supporting Obamacare in 2010. Soros' son, financier Jonathan Soros, is also a member of the foundation's board.

Rattner was the so-called "car czar," the lead auto adviser to the Treasury Department under Obama.

Last month, Rattner penned an opinion piece in the New York Times titled "Beyond Obamacare" in which he proclaimed "We need death panels" and argued rationing must be instructed to sustain Obama's health-care plan. His comments have been virtually ignored by traditional media as the president campaign's for a second term.

"We need death panels," began Rattner. "Well, maybe not death panels, exactly, but unless we start allocating health-care resources more prudently - rationing, by its proper name - the exploding cost of Medicare will swamp the federal budget."

Read all about the idea of "Medical Murder" and find out what Barack Obama would do in a second term, in "Fool Me Twice."

Continued Rattner: "But in the pantheon of toxic issues - the famous 'third rail' of American politics - none stands taller than overtly acknowledging that elderly Americans are not entitled to every conceivable medical procedure or pharmaceutical."

Rattner lamented how Obama's Affordable Care Act "regrettably includes severe restrictions on any reduction in Medicare services or increase in fees to beneficiaries."

Rattner said the numbers don't add up unless Obamacare utilizes rationing.

"If his Independent Payment Advisory Board comes up with savings, Congress must accept either them or vote for an equivalent package," stated Rattner. "The problem is, the advisory board can't propose reducing benefits (a k a rationing) or raising fees (another form of rationing), without which the spending target looms impossibly large."

Rattner singled out elderly patients for benefit cuts.

He wrote: "No one wants to lose an aging parent. And with price out of the equation, it's natural for patients and their families to try every treatment, regardless of expense or efficacy. But that imposes an enormous societal cost that few other nations have been willing to bear. Many countries whose health care systems are regularly extolled - including Canada, Australia and New Zealand - have systems for rationing care."

He concluded, "At the least, the Independent Payment Advisory Board should be allowed to offer changes in services and costs."

"We may shrink from such stomach-wrenching choices, but they are inescapable."

Rattner serves on the NAF's 22-person board of directors alongside Jonathan Soros, CNN's Fareed Zakaria and Google's Eric Schmidt.

Soros' Open Society Foundation is a primary donor to the NAF.

Other major donors include the Ben & Jerry's Foundation, the Carnegie Corporation of New York, the Ford Foundation, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Google Inc. and the Rockefeller Foundation.

Another donor is Free Press, a group that advocates for more government control of the airwaves and Internet.

Free Press is also funded by Soros. Free Press was founded by Robert W. McChesney, an avowed Marxist who has recommended capitalism be dismantled "brick by brick."

The NAF, meanwhile, bills itself as bipartisan and "the radical center."

NAF fellow Michael Lind wrote, "Our goal [is] not to repeal the New Deal [of Franklin Roosevelt] but to adapt it to the circumstances of the 21st century."

Discover The Networks notes how the NAF approved of Obamacare because it would "offer a new image" of how Americans view dying; and it would help "patients and their families to recognize" that, "[S]ometimes 'doing everything' results in more burden than benefit. High-tech medicine can prolong life, but for some patients, it merely draws out the process of dying."
 
2012-10-02 03:05:32 PM

gingerjet: mrshowrules: Also, at least in a single-payer model, the Government can make a business case (based on reducing costs) to promote healthy lifestyle choices. When is the last time you've seen an insurance company run a PSA for healthy food choices for instance. You are looking at the problem from within the box. I suggest you talk to more people who live outside the US regarding their personal experiences with their respective health care systems. The best thing about the US health care system is the health care services themselves. It is only your funding model which is completely farked.

Having spent the last three years working for a health insurance company - all the fark'n time. We had billboard advertisements, tv commercials, sponsorships, etc. When people make better lifestyle choices and don't go to the hospital it lowers their costs. You couldn't throw a dead cat without hitting one of our advertisements for healthy living.

But I have a real problem with your overall point. The problem with centralizing health insurance in a country as large as the US is that it ends up a huge bureaucracy unable to quickly change or make decisions, or properly detect fraud. Hell Medicare just implemented its first data analysis system to detect fraud just this year. That's insane. Let the government pass reasonable laws (pre-existing conditions, tax breaks for all - not just corporations, etc) but keep insurance in private hands.


My insurance company is PSAing me to distraction. I receive relentless brochures, health questionnaires, and recipe booklets in the mail. Their Health Advocates call me regularly to chat about my doctor visits, lab results, diet, weight, and how often I brush my teeth. Seriously, the only way they could be more intrusive and meddling would be if they showed up in my living room and threw butternut squash and kale at me.
 
2012-10-02 03:05:40 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: Yes, private insurance companies are certainly better able to quickly decide to deny patients treatment to keep corporate profits as high as possible.


One particular genius in the comments gave us this:

insurance companies by law have to be profitable, they're just doing what it says to do in the constitution.

I just...wow.
 
2012-10-02 03:15:46 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Philip Francis Queeg: Yes, private insurance companies are certainly better able to quickly decide to deny patients treatment to keep corporate profits as high as possible.

One particular genius in the comments gave us this:

insurance companies by law have to be profitable, they're just doing what it says to do in the constitution.

I just...wow.


psst.. ;) from GIS of piekko www.atsiivouspalvelut.fi
 
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