minoridiot: Are we blaming unions or african americans for the demise of Detroit today?
JackieRabbit: archichris: JackieRabbit: Oh good lord. Detroit has been a dying, decaying, crime-ridden, industrial shiathole most of my life. Now it is almost dead. This is what happens when a city puts all its eggs in one basket.Pensions killed Detroit. Public and private Pensions. It really was the Unions fault.No. It wasn't. It was the auto industry itself. They haven't been able to effectively compete with the Japanese for over three decades now. They've even off-shored a lot of manufacturing and assembly and they still cannot compete. The auto industry started building its own casket back in the 1970s, when they decided that crappy, gas guzzling cars that would fall apart in just a few years was acceptable.
archichris: JackieRabbit: Oh good lord. Detroit has been a dying, decaying, crime-ridden, industrial shiathole most of my life. Now it is almost dead. This is what happens when a city puts all its eggs in one basket.Pensions killed Detroit. Public and private Pensions. It really was the Unions fault.
Joce678: Damn! Where's that laboratory? I would totally raidvisit that place.
Bruxellensis: I'm a Michigan resident and a fan of Detroit sports (except the Lions). It takes longer to drive from my house to Detroit than it does from Detroit to D.C. Point being that most fans don't live in Detroit.
Neruos: Crime and Violence killed Detroit. Period.
fickenchucker: Phinn: fickenchucker: Unions aren't perfect morally or economically defensible, although they never would have gotten a foothold if management actually managed for the the big picture. Like in science, there was/is a reaction to an action. Unions grew from corporate avarice corrupt union leaders colluding with corrupt politicians, but I repeat myself.Better.Not true. Corporate policies, as well as union demands, are ever-changing pendulums that inevitably swing too far unless restricted by an opposing force.Many unions go too far. Many businesses go too far. Each case should be judged individually./Former Teamster who voted for Walker.
Fissile: The Muthaship: oldfarthenry: The Asian guy crashed his car on the way here - for no other reason than his incompetent driving skills!Next?It wasn't the Asian guy's fault. His just couldn't see the Cholo doing 40mph in the fast lane.==============If God had wanted Asians to drive cars, he would have given them eyes that open./My Asian friends love that joke
The Muthaship: Public Savant: Why doesn't the city just tear the buildings down to make parks?Seriously.Because that costs money, too.
EatHam: With all of its books.
stuhayes2010: Where is this? Chemistry flasks can be pricey.
mugwump867: Bruxellensis:I'm a Michigan resident and a fan of Detroit sports (except the Lions). It takes longer to drive from my house to Detroit than it does from Detroit to D.C. Point being that most fans don't live in Detroit.Where the heck do you live, Isle Royale? I used to do the Detroit to D.C. drive every month and it took 10 hours with one short break for lunch. Seriously though, you're either in Ironwood, the tip of the Keweenaw, or one heck of a slow driver.
Langdon Alger: yet somehow they manage to keep 4 pro sport teams with enough fans to sustain revenue.
sodomizer: Union rules make American workers useless and interrupt work flow...
sodomizer: The average compensation package for an American auto worker is about $40/hr (that includes everything, health care, pension, vacation wages, etc). The average compensation for a German auto worker is about $70/hr. The German auto companies build high quality cars that are desired by people all over the world, and those same companies are profitable. The German auto workers are ALL unionized. They get more vacation than do American auto workers, and the Germans have (GASP!) COMMIE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.The average compensation for a German worker is $70, of which $35 goes to taxes. Germany also has found a better solution than allowing unions to sabotage the car companies, thus making management a series of layers designed to work around that problem, thus paralyzing the (larger) American car companies from making decisions.I don't agree that it was pensions. I think it's unions. Union rules make American workers useless and interrupt work flow, union strikes forced the auto makers to adopt other practices to stay solvent, union politics requires layers of middle management, and union attitudes make for inefficient, resentful workers. This in turn makes the company adapt.When you have unions mucking up labor, most people are going to either (a) not work in the auto industry or (b) take on a lackadaisical outlook toward quality and other factors. The main job is to not have a strike shut down the plants.
neenerist: sodomizer: Once the unions took over.....Detroit began its collapse after the Flint sit down strike of 1936?
syberpud: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: The Muthaship: Public Savant: Why doesn't the city just tear the buildings down to make parks?Seriously.Because that costs money, too.If Detroit's anything like Pittsburgh, it costs about $20,000/single family structure to tear down a building correctly. A shiatty demo job can be done for $10K if you collapse the building into the foundation, but you'll end up with bigger problems down the road (like rats and leaking water/sewer lines).And depending on what is standing there now there may be environmental hazards. There is no incentive to spend a lot of money for a park that will have questionable use - who will frequent a park in downtown Detroit?
eraser8: Hey, layoff lay off Detroit. Them people is living in 'Mad Max' times.
eraser8: Hey, layoff Detroit.
stuhayes2010: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x663]Where is this? Chemistry flasks can be pricey. I will liberate them.
TravelingFreakshow: Subdue their bellies: loveblondieo: The strip club looks the best out of all of them.Deja Vu doesnt serve booze, but they can show bush, IIRC.Thankfully Windsor is within swimming distance.
The Muthaship: I bet this one confused the Brits:[i1240.photobucket.com image 400x584]
Public Savant: Why doesn't the city just tear the buildings down to make parks?Seriously.
Abe Vigoda's Ghost: The Muthaship: I bet this one confused the Brits:[i1240.photobucket.com image 400x584]Better equipped than normal?
teknophile4385: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x653]OH MY...THE DESOLATION.../Looks like everyone simply went to lunch
Pangit: People is plural. Just Willie did, and obviously not a very good one since its gone now.
sodomizer: Once the unions took over.....
Chiselphane: That conference room counts as abandoned in the same way I abandon my living room when I have to go take a leak.
Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i49.tinypic.com image 850x543]"Washed away from history: The former site of Willie's Garage now lies empty"Am I supposed to feel outraged that an eyesore was torn down?
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