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(Daily Mail)   Before and after pics show Detroit going from bad to worse   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 182
    More: Sad, Detroit, sustainable business, green shoots, camden, physical educations, farmland, gary  
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23350 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 8:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-02 01:08:30 PM

sodomizer: The average compensation package for an American auto worker is about $40/hr (that includes everything, health care, pension, vacation wages, etc). The average compensation for a German auto worker is about $70/hr. The German auto companies build high quality cars that are desired by people all over the world, and those same companies are profitable. The German auto workers are ALL unionized. They get more vacation than do American auto workers, and the Germans have (GASP!) COMMIE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.

The average compensation for a German worker is $70, of which $35 goes to taxes. Germany also has found a better solution than allowing unions to sabotage the car companies, thus making management a series of layers designed to work around that problem, thus paralyzing the (larger) American car companies from making decisions.

I don't agree that it was pensions. I think it's unions. Union rules make American workers useless and interrupt work flow, union strikes forced the auto makers to adopt other practices to stay solvent, union politics requires layers of middle management, and union attitudes make for inefficient, resentful workers. This in turn makes the company adapt.

When you have unions mucking up labor, most people are going to either (a) not work in the auto industry or (b) take on a lackadaisical outlook toward quality and other factors. The main job is to not have a strike shut down the plants.


============

And you've worked in an auto assembly plant? A relative of mine worked at Ford Mahwah Assembly and Ford Edison Assembly. You don't know what you are talking about.

Also, please provide proof that German Auto workers are taxed at a 50% rate.
 
2012-10-02 01:21:51 PM

Bruxellensis:

I'm a Michigan resident and a fan of Detroit sports (except the Lions). It takes longer to drive from my house to Detroit than it does from Detroit to D.C. Point being that most fans don't live in Detroit.


Where the heck do you live, Isle Royale? I used to do the Detroit to D.C. drive every month and it took 10 hours with one short break for lunch. Seriously though, you're either in Ironwood, the tip of the Keweenaw, or one heck of a slow driver.
 
2012-10-02 01:26:43 PM

mugwump867: Bruxellensis:

I'm a Michigan resident and a fan of Detroit sports (except the Lions). It takes longer to drive from my house to Detroit than it does from Detroit to D.C. Point being that most fans don't live in Detroit.

Where the heck do you live, Isle Royale? I used to do the Detroit to D.C. drive every month and it took 10 hours with one short break for lunch. Seriously though, you're either in Ironwood, the tip of the Keweenaw, or one heck of a slow driver.


Or Windsor... Ever try to cross that bridge in rush hour? Sheesh!
 
2012-10-02 01:38:04 PM

mugwump867: Bruxellensis:

I'm a Michigan resident and a fan of Detroit sports (except the Lions). It takes longer to drive from my house to Detroit than it does from Detroit to D.C. Point being that most fans don't live in Detroit.

Where the heck do you live, Isle Royale? I used to do the Detroit to D.C. drive every month and it took 10 hours with one short break for lunch. Seriously though, you're either in Ironwood, the tip of the Keweenaw, or one heck of a slow driver.


Keweenaw. And I drive farking fast, but we don't have freeways up here (minus a short N/S stretch of I-75).

It is farther to drive from Houghton to Detroit, Michigan than it is from Detroit to Washington, DC. It takes several fewer hours to travel to Milwaukee, Wisconsin or Minneapolis, Minnesota from Houghton than it does to travel to Detroit.
 
2012-10-02 01:42:19 PM

The Muthaship: oldfarthenry: The Asian guy crashed his car on the way here - for no other reason than his incompetent driving skills!

Next?

It wasn't the Asian guy's fault. His just couldn't see the Cholo doing 40mph in the fast lane.


Wasn't the Cholo's fault either, he was staring at the Polack up in the tree raking leaves.
 
2012-10-02 02:08:45 PM
This is what happens when the 47% take over a city.

www.mittromney.com

Mitt Romney for president.
 
2012-10-02 02:09:22 PM
Feh. Ruin porn. Not even good ruin porn.
 
2012-10-02 02:19:51 PM
Let's run down this thread:

1) Unions, not corporate incompetence/failure to compete in a capitalist market killed the auto industry
2) Unions, not a lack of patriotic responsibility forced jobs out of the country/detroit (but, "Buy American")
3) Unions are not responsible for the comfortable middle class life boomers enjoyed as children
4) Obama should have completed destroyed america's industrial base by letting GM "fail". Which by Ford and Chrysler's own admission would have destroyed them, too.
5) Black People.

Seriously, you f*cking asshole dipshiat right wing nutjobs need to GET THE fark OUT OF MY COUNTRY AND GO TO CHINA WHERE YOU farkING SLUGS BELONG.
 
2012-10-02 02:20:26 PM

Nightsweat: Neruos: Crime and Violence killed Detroit. Period.

But it was a result of white flight which was a result/cause of poverty which was a result of the loss of jobs which was a result of-


... criminals like the Teamsters and the racketeers in government they collaborated with.
 
2012-10-02 02:23:19 PM
Detroit was in bad shape, but Kwame Kilpatrick robbed them blind and flushed them down the toilet.
 
2012-10-02 02:27:46 PM

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Let's run down this thread:

1) Unions, not corporate incompetence/failure to compete in a capitalist market killed the auto industry
2) Unions, not a lack of patriotic responsibility forced jobs out of the country/detroit (but, "Buy American")
3) Unions are not responsible for the comfortable middle class life boomers enjoyed as children
4) Obama should have completed destroyed america's industrial base by letting GM "fail". Which by Ford and Chrysler's own admission would have destroyed them, too.
5) Black People.

Seriously, you f*cking asshole dipshiat right wing nutjobs need to GET THE fark OUT OF MY COUNTRY AND GO TO CHINA WHERE YOU farkING SLUGS BELONG.


You forget, Detroit is home to many, many white people who cause more trouble than most black people.
 
2012-10-02 02:38:48 PM

Fissile: sodomizer: The average compensation package for an American auto worker is about $40/hr (that includes everything, health care, pension, vacation wages, etc). The average compensation for a German auto worker is about $70/hr. The German auto companies build high quality cars that are desired by people all over the world, and those same companies are profitable. The German auto workers are ALL unionized. They get more vacation than do American auto workers, and the Germans have (GASP!) COMMIE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.

The average compensation for a German worker is $70, of which $35 goes to taxes. Germany also has found a better solution than allowing unions to sabotage the car companies, thus making management a series of layers designed to work around that problem, thus paralyzing the (larger) American car companies from making decisions.

I don't agree that it was pensions. I think it's unions. Union rules make American workers useless and interrupt work flow, union strikes forced the auto makers to adopt other practices to stay solvent, union politics requires layers of middle management, and union attitudes make for inefficient, resentful workers. This in turn makes the company adapt.

When you have unions mucking up labor, most people are going to either (a) not work in the auto industry or (b) take on a lackadaisical outlook toward quality and other factors. The main job is to not have a strike shut down the plants.

============

And you've worked in an auto assembly plant? A relative of mine worked at Ford Mahwah Assembly and Ford Edison Assembly. You don't know what you are talking about.

Also, please provide proof that German Auto workers are taxed at a 50% rate.


It only take 20 man hours for GM or Diamler to build a $50k car.

Even at $100/hr it's only $2k or 4% of the cost of a car.

Lowering the wage to $0/hour would not significantly reduce he price of an automobile.
 
2012-10-02 03:26:39 PM
 
2012-10-02 03:29:39 PM

dennysgod: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 470x588]

Pretty awesome pic imho


Came in to post that. Initially thought it was a mis-link while skimming the pics until I looked close.
 
2012-10-02 03:31:19 PM
Why dont you take the day off and try to repair
a billion others dont seem to care
better ideas are stuck in the mud
the motors runnin' on tuckers blood
dont let them tell you the future's electric
cause gasolines not measured in metric
30,000 wheels are spinnin'
and oil company faces are grinnin'
now my hands are turnin' red
and i found out my baby is dead
 
2012-10-02 03:33:07 PM
The clock picture is very Salvador Dali'ish
 
2012-10-02 03:43:17 PM

sodomizer: I blame bad race relations and unions. Once the unions took over, the auto industry began its decline. Once the race riots hit, the mass exodus from Detroit really began.

We should think really hard about adopting unions. Like Angela Merkel, I also think multiculturalism has failed. It's time to get some fresh thinking in here instead of these old tired ideas.



How so...?
 
2012-10-02 03:46:26 PM
Probably already been said, but some of that shiat needs to be rented out as movie/TV sets. The rail station and that abandoned factory, to name a couple.
 
2012-10-02 03:47:16 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i46.tinypic.com image 850x582]

 
2012-10-02 04:06:02 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Obligatory


I thought it was going to be this

/How da fark do we spose to keep peace?
 
2012-10-02 04:45:22 PM
johnbardi.edublogs.org
 
2012-10-02 05:07:43 PM

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Let's run down this thread:

1) Unions, not corporate incompetence/failure to compete in a capitalist market killed the auto industry
bit of both
2) Unions, not a lack of patriotic responsibility forced jobs out of the country/detroit (but, "Buy American")increased costs from various sources as well as slave labor in whatever country there were moving to - btw: 'lack of patriotic responsibility' ??? o wait, your serious.jpg
3) Unions are not responsible for the comfortable middle class life boomers enjoyed as children
again, pros and cons. we went from child laborers to ridiculous pensions that are breaking economies state by state, yet i'm supposed to feel some tremendous sorrow and responsibility every year at ballot time when commercials come on saying we need more $$ for schools... for the kids.
4) Obama should have completed destroyed america's industrial base by letting GM "fail". Which by Ford and Chrysler's own admission would have destroyed them, too.i go back and forth on this one. bailing out companies with tax money seems completely counter to capitalism. i understand that it may have made things worse if they did fail and go away, but we won't know that now.
5) Black People.this is blatant stupid on your part and you do yourself and your kind a disservice by saying something so dumb. it's hard to take anything you say seriously after that, good thing you left it to the end

Seriously, you f*cking asshole dipshiat right wing nutjobs need to GET THE fark OUT OF MY COUNTRY AND GO TO CHINA WHERE YOU farkING SLUGS BELONG.


lol wut? 
 
2012-10-02 05:55:15 PM

oh_please: I think that pic was posed to make it look like it was abandoned and vandals had yanked all the drawers open, looking for anything of value. If that was the case, they would have broken all that stuff too. Probably not being used right now, and locked up tight, but the photographer decided it didn't look "abandoned" enough, and yanked all the drawers open and threw some stuff on the floor for dramatic effect.


I think you're right about that. You can't tell me that some of the remaining intact glassware and equipment isn't suitable for cooking meth, and therefore would have disappeared long ago.
 
2012-10-02 07:21:27 PM

Neruos: Crime and Violence killed Detroit. Period.


Brought on byyyy?
 
2012-10-02 08:02:22 PM

Roxy Monoxide: Neruos: Crime and Violence killed Detroit. Period.

Brought on byyyy?


(Keeping in mind that I wasn't alive for this, so this is what I've picked up)

1) Segregation is ended, allowing black people to move into "white" neighborhoods for the first time.
1b) As a result of segregation, these people are usually undereducated, poor, and don't like white people.
1c) The suburbs expand as a result of the interstate system (and Detroit has the outright best freeway/traffic ratio of any city I've seen plus a decent side street network) drawing jobs and money out of the city.
2) Some of the nastier bits of the Black Power movement and 1b lead to the riots.
*riots happen here*
3) These things combined lead rich (usually white as a result of 1b, though Harlem in NYC had "black flight" in the '60's for similar reasons) people to leave the city en masse for the much nicer suburbs.
4) Coleman Young loots the city. His successors aren't much better (though Archer was decent).
5) They aren't helped by the reduced income levels and population density of the remnants.
6) As an extra fun bonus, CAFE, the rise of Japan, and increased automation destroy the auto line jobs (aka people just about qualified for minimum wage making almost 6 figures), though not the industry.
7) All of these things combined mean that money stays out of Detroit proper, though the metro area actually does pretty well.

So now Detroit is a bunch of poor black people being lorded over by corrupt black people.

/And it doesn't help that black correlates to 'poor, stupid, ghetto thug' or 'corrupt power-hungry idiot' in a lot of people's minds in the metro area, because that's all they see on tv, which is in turn all they see of black people.
//And it really doesn't help that a non-zero percentage of those same black people act like the above in person. (Not all. At the high school, they tended to be the best or the worst. We had a black drum major, the only guy on the dance team was black (and he was really good and a nice guy), a couple of spectacular black actors, and the really good up-and-coming sax player was black. In exchange, 3 of the 3 kids who failed my bio class were black (one for the 4th time in 4 years), and I only had 2 black kids in all my AP classes against about half Indian kids for the same population.)
 
2012-10-02 10:53:10 PM

The Muthaship: I bet this one confused the Brits:

[i1240.photobucket.com image 400x584]


Took me a minute but
 
2012-10-02 11:02:23 PM

ElBarto79: I've been to Detroit several times in the past few months. Many areas of downtown feel like a ghost town and are quite eerie, however there are people there who are taking advantage of the decline in some interesting ways. The last time i was there we came upon a rock concert in a large burned out apartment building; stages built from old wood scraps, no id checks, no entry fee, no guards and free beer. It was pretty damn cool. The advantage now is that no one cares what you do there so you have tremendous freedom. There was a cop across the street from said concert smoking a cigarette while the kids inside partied, he did not give a crap. In any other city there would be guards, wristbands and a $20 entrance fee. The old Detroit is dead but there is a new one taking form.


Where was this?
 
2012-10-02 11:55:26 PM

archichris: JackieRabbit: Oh good lord. Detroit has been a dying, decaying, crime-ridden, industrial shiathole most of my life. Now it is almost dead. This is what happens when a city puts all its eggs in one basket.

Pensions killed Detroit. Public and private Pensions. It really was the Unions fault.


I guess the Unions made Roger Smith buy EDS?
 
2012-10-03 01:08:33 AM

The Muthaship: Phinn: I'm a billionaire genius who's banging your girlfriend.

If you were a billionaire genius, you could do better than some farker's girlfriend....


Cuckolding is serious trolling. Might provide real kicks to someone who already has it all.
 
2012-10-03 04:50:05 AM
Someone should spread kudzu on abandoned properties... Greenfiti
 
2012-10-03 06:34:30 AM
I just visited Detroit for the first time and found it surprisingly alive with plenty of stuff to do, and areas improving. If I only believed slideshows I'd never know it wasn't a post war paradise.
 
2012-10-03 12:45:58 PM

Jim.Casy: minoridiot: Are we blaming unions or african americans for the demise of Detroit today?

According to the comments FTA we are blaming it on Obama. And socialists.


How about just decades of Democrat leadership.
 
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