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(Daily Mail)   Before and after pics show Detroit going from bad to worse   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 182
    More: Sad, Detroit, sustainable business, green shoots, camden, physical educations, farmland, gary  
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23350 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 8:14 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-02 10:50:30 AM  

oh_please: Tyrosine: stuhayes2010: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x663]

Where is this? Chemistry flasks can be pricey. I will liberate them.

Not if I can get there first. Those Pyrex desiccators can go for $500 new, not to mention all the other glassware.

I think that pic was posed to make it look like it was abandoned and vandals had yanked all the drawers open, looking for anything of value. If that was the case, they would have broken all that stuff too. Probably not being used right now, and locked up tight, but the photographer decided it didn't look "abandoned" enough, and yanked all the drawers open and threw some stuff on the floor for dramatic effect.


You may be right, there's no graffiti or burning...which is what you'd expect the locals to do.

OTOH you could probably slip the guard $1000 to turn a blind eye for half an hour, build the most awesome geek-cave ever and still make a massive profit on eBay.
 
2012-10-02 10:53:08 AM  
Hey, London!



www.sinfield.org

blogs.telegraph.co.uk
farm8.staticflickr.com

assets.inhabitat.com
Shaddup.
 
2012-10-02 10:54:26 AM  

fickenchucker: Unions aren't perfect morally or economically defensible, although they never would have gotten a foothold if management actually managed for the the big picture. Like in science, there was/is a reaction to an action. Unions grew from corporate avarice corrupt union leaders colluding with corrupt politicians, but I repeat myself.


Better.
 
2012-10-02 11:03:15 AM  

madgonad: Here is a good example. AT&T Mobile and Verizon Wireless. Without searching online, guess which one is a union shop? Seriously, one mobile provider is totally union (IBEW) and the other is completely union-free.


Let's see what their shops look like.

Verizon: clean store with well-maintained displays holding a wide variety of phones
AT&T: not as clean, visible water damage on ceiling tiles, only three displays out of 20 have something other than an iPhone

I'm going to guess AT&T is the union shop.
 
2012-10-02 11:03:19 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: mytdawg: The execs did the same thing to Detroit and the car companies that they're doing to banks and healthcare now.

Enjoy mocking Detroit while you can because it's coming to your town too.

The unions did to GM what they are doing to public enterprises now.

Enjoy mocking Detroit because it's coming to your town (assuming that it's public employees are highly unionized) too.

/my gross generalization is much closer to the truth than yours


Unions did not do this to Detroit. The riots of the 1970s started this and the problem continues today. First, whites fled to the suburbs. Then the businesses in Detroit starting to decline because those same people were not doing business in the city, but in the suburbs. Then the need for employees was reduced by a drop in car sales and the introduction of robotics. The people most impacted by these two situations were mostly black (last in, first laid off) and most of those blacks live in the city itself. Add that to an already large rate of unemployment in Detroit and you have the situation in Detroit today.

And that is not a generalization at all.
 
2012-10-02 11:03:50 AM  
That was a sloppy, disjointed narrative from The Fail.

Nobody lives on this terrible street!
Is this before or after? Who knows!?
The Packard plant was abandoned in the forties and still appears abandoned according to this several year old picture!
Empty conference room!!
 
2012-10-02 11:05:46 AM  
Unions are ALWAYS BAD! That's why I always fly on Union-Free Delta and never on unionized Southwest. Did you know that Southwest is 87% unionized, making it the most unionized airline in America.

That's why Southwest is the worst. If they were less unionized like Delta, then they would be as awesome as Delta.
 
2012-10-02 11:08:29 AM  

neenerist: sodomizer: Union rules make American workers useless and interrupt work flow...

When all you have is a hammer. Germany has unions. UAW workers made roughly the same inflation-adjusted wage I did as a summer student in the 1970's until the recent dual tier agreement halved it for new hires. Data is a biatch.


You're cherry-picking here. Germany has incorporated its unions into the decision process and regulated them. American unions are an oppositional force. Further, what I said was that "union rules" make American workers useless and interrupt work flow, which clearly applies to American union rules.

Logic is a biatch.
 
2012-10-02 11:09:45 AM  
Count me in with the bunch going looking for the chemistry lab. Finder's keepers, bros!
 
2012-10-02 11:14:02 AM  
Can the hipsters just move there and start the counter culture revival of Detroit already?
 
2012-10-02 11:20:39 AM  
yet somehow they manage to keep 4 pro sport teams with enough fans to sustain revenue.
 
2012-10-02 11:20:51 AM  

dennysgod: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 470x588]

Pretty awesome pic imho


t1.gstatic.com

approves!
 
2012-10-02 11:24:43 AM  
I remember seeing this Detroit in that shiatty Robocop movie back in the 80s.
 
2012-10-02 11:25:28 AM  
Pictures from the daily mail never load for me, any ideas on ho to fix this?
 
2012-10-02 11:25:53 AM  
Construction????

That's movie set lighting for a made for TV movie called 'HAVE A LITTLE FAITH.'

No contractor would spend that kinda money on lifts - they'd have one and take an extra 4 days to complete the job - rather than spend money on equipment rental.


Construction: Repair work is carried out at Pilgrim Church in 2011
i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2012-10-02 11:36:15 AM  

TomServo24: They left out the best one:

[reason.com image 350x475]


Is that at the old Packard plant?
 
2012-10-02 11:42:31 AM  

eggrolls: Hey, London!
assets.inhabitat.com
Shaddup.


Needs more pig.
 
2012-10-02 11:49:43 AM  

sixfingers: Pictures from the daily mail never load for me, any ideas on ho to fix this?


You're missing all the "smoking hot" women, too bad for youuuu.....
 
2012-10-02 11:52:55 AM  
This far into a thread and no reference to ICP? Fark, I am somewhat disappoint.
 
2012-10-02 11:56:54 AM  

kiwimoogle84: This far into a thread and no reference to ICP? Fark, I am somewhat disappoint.


For some reason that made me substitute the IC for the OP in OPP, but kept the original P from OPP. Made for a much funnier song, at least in my head.
 
2012-10-02 11:57:40 AM  

Fissile: It always shocks me to see how little ambition the locals have. Example: GM closed a number of factories in Michigan after their recent bankruptcy. They walked away from functioning 5 axis machine centers, stamping machines, welding equipment, etc. They even left behind functioning forklifts and flat bed trucks. If I lived near one of these places, I would have used the forklift to place some of that machinery on a flat bed and haul it to my garage. What do the locals do? They break into the place and pull out the copper wires/tubing and leave or trash the rest. WTF?


Even all those beakers and test tubes. each one can get you $5-$10 each at antique stores and flea markets that get used as decorations.
 
2012-10-02 11:59:26 AM  

The Muthaship: kiwimoogle84: This far into a thread and no reference to ICP? Fark, I am somewhat disappoint.

For some reason that made me substitute the IC for the OP in OPP, but kept the original P from OPP. Made for a much funnier song, at least in my head.


I will have OPP stuck in my head for the rest of the day now. aTHANK you.
 
2012-10-02 11:59:46 AM  
i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-02 12:00:32 PM  

madgonad: I know everyone likes to dog on poor Detroit, but what happened there is going to happen everywhere. They are just the canary in the coal mine - the first to go due to a very high dependence on the automotive sector.

But thanks to companies like Bain (who make the greatest profits on offshoring) and the willingness of the American consumer to prefer to save a few pennies on imports - we can all expect a similar future. Detroit failed because they lost their wealth creating jobs and the people left. The same thing is happening nationwide - that is why we won't ever break 8% unemployment again. If it wasn't for massive borrowing to stimulate the economy, we would be well over 10% unemployment and more and more cities would look like Detroit. That trend would continue to expand as the remaining wealth is quickly used to buy more and more imports since domestic production is neglected. Eventually the dollar starts devaluing, making suburbia impossible to live in with $15 gasoline. Then things get all Katrina. But keep buying that Chinese junk you don't need (and will have to replace next year when it breaks).


I don't think it's as grim as all that. The lower our dollar goes, the less appealing job offshoring gets. There is an equilibrium and I don't think a "global economy" is doing us as much good as we've been sold anyway. Sure GE makes a grip of money in India, benefiting investors, executives, and a handful of middle class American workers who administrate it, but it does little for the rest of us.

America still has a huge workforce and many natural resources.
 
2012-10-02 12:01:40 PM  

Phinn: fickenchucker: Unions aren't perfect morally or economically defensible, although they never would have gotten a foothold if management actually managed for the the big picture. Like in science, there was/is a reaction to an action. Unions grew from corporate avarice corrupt union leaders colluding with corrupt politicians, but I repeat myself.

Better.




Not true. Corporate policies, as well as union demands, are ever-changing pendulums that inevitably swing too far unless restricted by an opposing force.

Many unions go too far. Many businesses go too far. Each case should be judged individually.

/Former Teamster who voted for Walker.
 
2012-10-02 12:09:27 PM  
This is what happens when you don't have enough white people to pay for the black people.
 
2012-10-02 12:12:16 PM  

The Muthaship: I bet this one confused the Brits:

[i1240.photobucket.com image 400x584]



An electric chair? "Old Sparky", istr
 
2012-10-02 12:14:46 PM  

qsblues: If there are no jobs, industry, tourism or anything of value in Detroit, then WHY do they have NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL teams there? Why haven't the teams moved yet? That shiat doesn't come cheap ...


As someone currently working at a good job in Detroit, I'm getting a kick...

Actually, downtown is doing really well. It's getting hard to buy parking.
 
2012-10-02 12:15:41 PM  

Langdon Alger: yet somehow they manage to keep 4 pro sport teams with enough fans to sustain revenue.


I'm a Michigan resident and a fan of Detroit sports (except the Lions). It takes longer to drive from my house to Detroit than it does from Detroit to D.C. Point being that most fans don't live in Detroit.
 
2012-10-02 12:20:00 PM  

Thunderpipes: JackieRabbit: archichris: JackieRabbit: Oh good lord. Detroit has been a dying, decaying, crime-ridden, industrial shiathole most of my life. Now it is almost dead. This is what happens when a city puts all its eggs in one basket.

Pensions killed Detroit. Public and private Pensions. It really was the Unions fault.

No. It wasn't. It was the auto industry itself. They haven't been able to effectively compete with the Japanese for over three decades now. They've even off-shored a lot of manufacturing and assembly and they still cannot compete. The auto industry started building its own casket back in the 1970s, when they decided that crappy, gas guzzling cars that would fall apart in just a few years was acceptable.

Moron. American cars are extremely well built. All cars sucked in the 70s. Unions are killing the American auto industry, nothing more. Hopey McGM screwed things up even worse by "saving" GM.


Yeah, not so much

And that's 2012 after US manufacturers started to get the message.

American cars have had shiatty shiatty interiors forever. It's not just quality, it's also design, but it IS quality also. Ford is doing great now. Why? Because they have good quality and better design than they had (though can we get rid of that 70's prom tuxedo blue already?). In 2005, who was second to last in initial quality? Saturn. You make shiatty cars that feel cheap and you won't sell any.
 
2012-10-02 12:23:15 PM  

fickenchucker: Phinn: fickenchucker: Unions aren't perfect morally or economically defensible, although they never would have gotten a foothold if management actually managed for the the big picture. Like in science, there was/is a reaction to an action. Unions grew from corporate avarice corrupt union leaders colluding with corrupt politicians, but I repeat myself.

Better.



Not true. Corporate policies, as well as union demands, are ever-changing pendulums that inevitably swing too far unless restricted by an opposing force.

Many unions go too far. Many businesses go too far. Each case should be judged individually.

/Former Teamster who voted for Walker.


I've never met anyone willing to admit that... I'm pretty excited.

So, do you have school age children and has there been a noticeable change in the quality of their education in the past two years?
 
2012-10-02 12:31:46 PM  
Two words: Coleman Young.

Fark that useless fark and may he roast forever in the deepest bowels of Hell.
 
2012-10-02 12:32:38 PM  

fickenchucker: Phinn: fickenchucker: Unions aren't perfect morally or economically defensible, although they never would have gotten a foothold if management actually managed for the the big picture. Like in science, there was/is a reaction to an action. Unions grew from corporate avarice corrupt union leaders colluding with corrupt politicians, but I repeat myself.

Better.



Not true. Corporate policies, as well as union demands, are ever-changing pendulums that inevitably swing too far unless restricted by an opposing force.

Many unions go too far. Many businesses go too far. Each case should be judged individually.

/Former Teamster who voted for Walker.


This "pendulum" metaphor is nonsense. It's folklore. It's a psychological defense mechanism that people like you use to explain phenomena that you don't understand, or don't want to understand. It has no basis in reality.

The hard reality is that unions are, by nature, a form of aggressive violence (directed against non-members, forcibly prohibiting them from competing). Unions are indirect method of robbing both potential competitors of the chance to improve their lives (people you lovingly called "scabs," who are frequently terrorized or beaten for daring to work in ways that are contrary to your preferences). They also rob the consumer of the chance to buy an alternative good from a more preferable vendor, usually at a better price.

Like all forms of forcibly-prohibited competition, the end result of unionism (or protectionism, or any of its 10,000 variants) is an overall economic decline. Repeat daily for 50 years and the result is Detroit.

A state-enforced barrier to entry is great for the guy, like you, who unjustly benefits by having his income inflated as a result of the forcible exclusion of competitors from the market, but it's a huge economic loss to everyone else, especially the consumer.

So, I'm not surprised that a beneficiary of corrupt violence like yourself extols the virtues of corrupt violence, but don't expect the people you robbed to smile and applaud you for it. You're not fooling anyone but yourself. The hideous results of this way of thinking are on display for everyone to see.
 
2012-10-02 12:35:30 PM  

The Muthaship: Public Savant: Why doesn't the city just tear the buildings down to make parks?
Seriously.

Because that costs money, too.


Asbestos.
 
2012-10-02 12:35:37 PM  

sodomizer: Logic is a biatch


It's obvious from your posts. They'e both unions yet you rail against the concept of unions while excusing those in Germany. You illogically accuse others of cherry picking an entire country (?) while cherry picking the worst possible example of a city, all while ignoring unionized work forces across the globe in cities that aren't Detroit. Backing Romney perhaps? 
Unions are industry associations for labour, the flip side of industry associations for employers who meet to discuss wage structures and labour policies. Neither is more or less logical and moral than the other. No matter how much you rail and wail the 1% still won't sleep with you.
 
2012-10-02 12:35:40 PM  

Phinn: fickenchucker: Phinn: fickenchucker: Unions aren't perfect morally or economically defensible, although they never would have gotten a foothold if management actually managed for the the big picture. Like in science, there was/is a reaction to an action. Unions grew from corporate avarice corrupt union leaders colluding with corrupt politicians, but I repeat myself.

Better.



Not true. Corporate policies, as well as union demands, are ever-changing pendulums that inevitably swing too far unless restricted by an opposing force.

Many unions go too far. Many businesses go too far. Each case should be judged individually.

/Former Teamster who voted for Walker.

This "pendulum" metaphor is nonsense. It's folklore. It's a psychological defense mechanism that people like you use to explain phenomena that you don't understand, or don't want to understand. It has no basis in reality.

The hard reality is that unions are, by nature, a form of aggressive violence (directed against non-members, forcibly prohibiting them from competing). Unions are indirect method of robbing both potential competitors of the chance to improve their lives (people you lovingly called "scabs," who are frequently terrorized or beaten for daring to work in ways that are contrary to your preferences). They also rob the consumer of the chance to buy an alternative good from a more preferable vendor, usually at a better price.

Like all forms of forcibly-prohibited competition, the end result of unionism (or protectionism, or any of its 10,000 variants) is an overall economic decline. Repeat daily for 50 years and the result is Detroit.

A state-enforced barrier to entry is great for the guy, like you, who unjustly benefits by having his income inflated as a result of the forcible exclusion of competitors from the market, but it's a huge economic loss to everyone else, especially the consumer.

So, I'm not surprised that a beneficiary of corrupt violence like yourself extols the virtues of ...


Change a few nouns around and this is a Marxist raving. You're an extremist troll.
 
2012-10-02 12:38:58 PM  

sodomizer: The average compensation package for an American auto worker is about $40/hr (that includes everything, health care, pension, vacation wages, etc). The average compensation for a German auto worker is about $70/hr. The German auto companies build high quality cars that are desired by people all over the world, and those same companies are profitable. The German auto workers are ALL unionized. They get more vacation than do American auto workers, and the Germans have (GASP!) COMMIE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.

The average compensation for a German worker is $70, of which $35 goes to taxes. Germany also has found a better solution than allowing unions to sabotage the car companies, thus making management a series of layers designed to work around that problem, thus paralyzing the (larger) American car companies from making decisions.

I don't agree that it was pensions. I think it's unions. Union rules make American workers useless and interrupt work flow, union strikes forced the auto makers to adopt other practices to stay solvent, union politics requires layers of middle management, and union attitudes make for inefficient, resentful workers. This in turn makes the company adapt.

When you have unions mucking up labor, most people are going to either (a) not work in the auto industry or (b) take on a lackadaisical outlook toward quality and other factors. The main job is to not have a strike shut down the plants.


Talk to a fireman or policeman sometime about how useless unions are.
 
2012-10-02 12:40:53 PM  

Langdon Alger: yet somehow they manage to keep 4 pro sport teams with enough fans to sustain revenue.


Tax breaks and new stadiums for the owners. Detriot can afford that no problem.
 
2012-10-02 12:45:16 PM  

Nightsweat: Change a few nouns around and this is a Marxist raving. You're an extremist troll.


Wow, deep thought, dude.

If you change a few more nouns, I'm a billionaire genius who's banging your girlfriend.
 
2012-10-02 12:47:34 PM  

Phinn: I'm a billionaire genius who's banging your girlfriend.


If you were a billionaire genius, you could do better than some farker's girlfriend....
 
2012-10-02 12:48:24 PM  
Seeing some of that beautiful architecture crumbling away, and knowing that nobody creates beautiful buildings anymore, gives me a sad.
 
2012-10-02 12:51:39 PM  
Great locations for the next seasons of Survivor, Survivorman, Man versus Wild, The Colony, and American Idol.
 
2012-10-02 12:53:30 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Unions are ALWAYS BAD! That's why I always fly on Union-Free Delta and never on unionized Southwest. Did you know that Southwest is 87% unionized, making it the most unionized airline in America.

That's why Southwest is the worst. If they were less unionized like Delta, then they would be as awesome as Delta.



shiat, Delta is "Air-Greyhound".
 
2012-10-02 12:55:07 PM  

Phinn: Nightsweat: Change a few nouns around and this is a Marxist raving. You're an extremist troll.

Wow, deep thought, dude.

If you change a few more nouns, I'm a billionaire genius who's banging your girlfriend.


Not so much deep though as yours was a shallow rant. Pretty much all you posted is bullshiat, much as the rants about how the capitalist steal the workers' labor would be from a MArxist perspective.

People have the right to unionize here. It fixed a lot of problems. They went to far sometimes, but so did the companies. Deal with it or go move someplace where unions are illegal.
 
2012-10-02 12:58:34 PM  
When the grass is gone, the sheep move on. History repeats.
 
2012-10-02 01:04:56 PM  
Crime and Violence killed Detroit. Period.
 
2012-10-02 01:05:54 PM  

ryarger: fickenchucker: Phinn: fickenchucker: Unions aren't perfect morally or economically defensible, although they never would have gotten a foothold if management actually managed for the the big picture. Like in science, there was/is a reaction to an action. Unions grew from corporate avarice corrupt union leaders colluding with corrupt politicians, but I repeat myself.

Better.



Not true. Corporate policies, as well as union demands, are ever-changing pendulums that inevitably swing too far unless restricted by an opposing force.

Many unions go too far. Many businesses go too far. Each case should be judged individually.

/Former Teamster who voted for Walker.

I've never met anyone willing to admit that... I'm pretty excited.

So, do you have school age children and has there been a noticeable change in the quality of their education in the past two years?


I do and I have. GT has been much reduced in our district.
 
2012-10-02 01:05:54 PM  

ryarger: /Former Teamster who voted for Walker.

I've never met anyone willing to admit that... I'm pretty excited.

So, do you have school age children and has there been a noticeable change in the quality of their education in the past two years?




Yes, I have kids, and no, there is no decline in education quality. The details of the big Walker hullaballoo are very simple--there was an attempt to bring the overall compensation package more in line with educated and skilled workers in the private sector. That's it. Of course there was a bunch of garment-rending and messy protesting, but at the end of the day educators still have very fair pay, healthcare, and retirement plans.

My brother is a teacher and freely admits he voted for Walker from a tax-payer perspective, but went through with all of the protesting with his friends to try and block Walker's policies.

/Yes I know it's in court again, but that's part of the process.
 
2012-10-02 01:08:14 PM  

Neruos: Crime and Violence killed Detroit. Period.


But it was a result of white flight which was a result/cause of poverty which was a result of the loss of jobs which was a result of-
 
2012-10-02 01:08:23 PM  

TomServo24: They left out the best one:

[reason.com image 350x475]


Scene from Wall-E?
 
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