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(Daily Mail)   Before and after pics show Detroit going from bad to worse   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 182
    More: Sad, Detroit, sustainable business, green shoots, camden, physical educations, farmland, gary  
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23353 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 8:14 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-02 09:00:26 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: The Muthaship: I bet this one confused the Brits:

[i1240.photobucket.com image 400x584]

Better equipped than normal?


No, just a very tired old joke.
 
2012-10-02 09:01:17 AM  
Why doesn't the city just tear the buildings down to make parks?
Seriously.

Who wouldn't today like to live in a city, where there are parks everywhere?
I know there aren't a lot of jobs in detroit right now, but you gotta try to do SOMETHING to make it better.
And the parks don't have to be more than grass, a few bushes and the odd tree.

Expropriation costs certainly can't get any lower, can they?

There should be ample room to ensure space for traffic. Just make green corridors, as you work your way through abandoned housings - if you can connect the lots, just start out making a path for cyclists.

Should Destroit get back on it's feet, then you have a lot of city-owned plots, that can be sold off or used to make improvements.
 
2012-10-02 09:02:14 AM  

Public Savant: Why doesn't the city just tear the buildings down to make parks?
Seriously.


Because that costs money, too.
 
2012-10-02 09:03:17 AM  

Subdue their bellies: loveblondieo: The strip club looks the best out of all of them.

Deja Vu doesnt serve booze, but they can show bush, IIRC.


Thankfully Windsor is within swimming distance.
 
2012-10-02 09:05:21 AM  
Turn it into another sanctuary city, i hear that makes cities awsome
 
2012-10-02 09:05:23 AM  

Tyrosine: stuhayes2010: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x663]

Where is this? Chemistry flasks can be pricey. I will liberate them.

Not if I can get there first. Those Pyrex desiccators can go for $500 new, not to mention all the other glassware.


I think that pic was posed to make it look like it was abandoned and vandals had yanked all the drawers open, looking for anything of value. If that was the case, they would have broken all that stuff too. Probably not being used right now, and locked up tight, but the photographer decided it didn't look "abandoned" enough, and yanked all the drawers open and threw some stuff on the floor for dramatic effect.
 
2012-10-02 09:06:23 AM  
Ah, Destroyt. Looking each new day a little more like Pripyat
 
2012-10-02 09:07:55 AM  

The Muthaship: I bet this one confused the Brits:

[i1240.photobucket.com image 400x584]


I bet you typed that with a stick because your fingers were too fat.

Let's all get stereotypical!
 
2012-10-02 09:09:09 AM  

The Muthaship: Public Savant: Why doesn't the city just tear the buildings down to make parks?
Seriously.

Because that costs money, too.


If Detroit's anything like Pittsburgh, it costs about $20,000/single family structure to tear down a building correctly. A shiatty demo job can be done for $10K if you collapse the building into the foundation, but you'll end up with bigger problems down the road (like rats and leaking water/sewer lines).
 
2012-10-02 09:10:47 AM  

oldfarthenry: I bet you typed that with a stick because your fingers were too fat.

Let's all get stereotypical!


I had to get help from an Asian, because I'm too dumb!

Keeping it going!
 
2012-10-02 09:11:07 AM  

archichris: JackieRabbit: Oh good lord. Detroit has been a dying, decaying, crime-ridden, industrial shiathole most of my life. Now it is almost dead. This is what happens when a city puts all its eggs in one basket.

Pensions killed Detroit. Public and private Pensions. It really was the Unions fault.


No. It wasn't. It was the auto industry itself. They haven't been able to effectively compete with the Japanese for over three decades now. They've even off-shored a lot of manufacturing and assembly and they still cannot compete. The auto industry started building its own casket back in the 1970s, when they decided that crappy, gas guzzling cars that would fall apart in just a few years was acceptable.
 
2012-10-02 09:14:50 AM  

TravelingFreakshow: Subdue their bellies: loveblondieo: The strip club looks the best out of all of them.

Deja Vu doesnt serve booze, but they can show bush, IIRC.

Thankfully Windsor is within swimming distance.


Windsor is a shiathole, not quite the level of Detroit shiathole but a shiathole nonetheless. I guess if you're just coming here for strippers though you're good.

/moved away from there
 
2012-10-02 09:15:06 AM  

stuhayes2010: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x663]

Where is this? Chemistry flasks can be pricey. I will liberate them.


my lab could use more equipment... some of that stuff looks pretty salvageable.

/my legit lab
//no seriously
 
2012-10-02 09:15:14 AM  

The Muthaship: oldfarthenry: I bet you typed that with a stick because your fingers were too fat.

Let's all get stereotypical!

I had to get help from an Asian, because I'm too dumb!

Keeping it going!


The Asian guy crashed his car on the way here - for no other reason than his incompetent driving skills!

Next?
 
2012-10-02 09:16:25 AM  

EatHam: Found it: here it is


Wow

The pictures of the Michigan Theater being used as a parking garage are really odd.
 
2012-10-02 09:19:14 AM  

JackieRabbit: archichris: JackieRabbit: Oh good lord. Detroit has been a dying, decaying, crime-ridden, industrial shiathole most of my life. Now it is almost dead. This is what happens when a city puts all its eggs in one basket.

Pensions killed Detroit. Public and private Pensions. It really was the Unions fault.

No. It wasn't. It was the auto industry itself. They haven't been able to effectively compete with the Japanese for over three decades now. They've even off-shored a lot of manufacturing and assembly and they still cannot compete. The auto industry started building its own casket back in the 1970s, when they decided that crappy, gas guzzling cars that would fall apart in just a few years was acceptable.


===================

^This^

The average compensation package for an American auto worker is about $40/hr (that includes everything, health care, pension, vacation wages, etc). The average compensation for a German auto worker is about $70/hr. The German auto companies build high quality cars that are desired by people all over the world, and those same companies are profitable. The German auto workers are ALL unionized. They get more vacation than do American auto workers, and the Germans have (GASP!) COMMIE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.

Fark you Fux News, Mush Limpblow idiots.
 
2012-10-02 09:20:00 AM  
If there are no jobs, industry, tourism or anything of value in Detroit, then WHY do they have NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL teams there? Why haven't the teams moved yet? That shiat doesn't come cheap ...

jes sayin
 
2012-10-02 09:20:57 AM  

oldfarthenry: The Asian guy crashed his car on the way here - for no other reason than his incompetent driving skills!

Next?


It wasn't the Asian guy's fault. His just couldn't see the Cholo doing 40mph in the fast lane.
 
2012-10-02 09:21:52 AM  

qsblues: If there are no jobs, industry, tourism or anything of value in Detroit, then WHY do they have NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL teams there? Why haven't the teams moved yet? That shiat doesn't come cheap ...

jes sayin


Suburbs.
 
2012-10-02 09:22:25 AM  
Everyone making excuses for the obvious.

Unions gained enough power by the 1960s to have dominated the auto industry. At that point, the first stages of anti-competitive decline set in. A decade later, the industry was in freefall.

As a thriving metroplex, Detroit had other industries as well. These were doing OK and decline was arrested until the riots.

At that point, people didn't wait for the third strike -- they sold their homes for pennies on the dollar and headed elsewhere.

It's funny how we repeat these mistakes throughout history. I wonder what parts of California will look like Detroit in a decade or so.
 
2012-10-02 09:23:46 AM  

The Muthaship: oldfarthenry: The Asian guy crashed his car on the way here - for no other reason than his incompetent driving skills!

Next?

It wasn't the Asian guy's fault. His just couldn't see the Cholo doing 40mph in the fast lane.


==============

If God had wanted Asians to drive cars, he would have given them eyes that open.

/My Asian friends love that joke
 
2012-10-02 09:27:11 AM  

minoridiot: Are we blaming unions or african americans for the demise of Detroit today?


Greed and arrogance, same as always.
 
2012-10-02 09:27:35 AM  

Fissile: The Muthaship: oldfarthenry: The Asian guy crashed his car on the way here - for no other reason than his incompetent driving skills!

Next?

It wasn't the Asian guy's fault. His just couldn't see the Cholo doing 40mph in the fast lane.

==============

If God had wanted Asians to drive cars, he would have given them eyes that open.

/My Asian friends love that joke


I lol'd
 
2012-10-02 09:30:21 AM  

ManRay: The pictures of the Michigan Theater being used as a parking garage are really odd.


Detroit smiles at your notion of odd.
 
2012-10-02 09:38:47 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: The Muthaship: Public Savant: Why doesn't the city just tear the buildings down to make parks?
Seriously.

Because that costs money, too.

If Detroit's anything like Pittsburgh, it costs about $20,000/single family structure to tear down a building correctly. A shiatty demo job can be done for $10K if you collapse the building into the foundation, but you'll end up with bigger problems down the road (like rats and leaking water/sewer lines).


And depending on what is standing there now there may be environmental hazards. There is no incentive to spend a lot of money for a park that will have questionable use - who will frequent a park in downtown Detroit?
 
2012-10-02 09:40:04 AM  

Public Savant: Why doesn't the city just tear the buildings down to make parks?
Seriously.

Who wouldn't today like to live in a city, where there are parks everywhere?
I know there aren't a lot of jobs in detroit right now, but you gotta try to do SOMETHING to make it better.
And the parks don't have to be more than grass, a few bushes and the odd tree.

Expropriation costs certainly can't get any lower, can they?

There should be ample room to ensure space for traffic. Just make green corridors, as you work your way through abandoned housings - if you can connect the lots, just start out making a path for cyclists.

Should Destroit get back on it's feet, then you have a lot of city-owned plots, that can be sold off or used to make improvements.


There is some movement to do this. (And it's a pretty fun event.)
Link
But as one poster already mentioned, demolition isn't free.
 
2012-10-02 09:41:33 AM  
i47.tinypic.com

"I don't know nothing about no God Damned Krugerrands".
 
2012-10-02 09:44:39 AM  
Hey, layoff Detroit. Them people is living in 'Mad Max' times.
 
2012-10-02 09:45:42 AM  

eraser8: Hey, layoff Detroit.


It was the city motto
 
2012-10-02 09:46:05 AM  

eraser8: Hey, layoff lay off Detroit. Them people is living in 'Mad Max' times.


Sorry. I should have known a cut and paste job would require editing.
 
2012-10-02 09:46:24 AM  
When I want to see a before/after gallery, I want to see photos of the same areas taken from the same perspective. Is there a photographer alive who gets this concept? Hold the previous picture up and stand in the same farking spot. It's not difficult. Not even National Geographic seems capable of this. It's amazing. Stand where the previous photo was taken and snap the god damned picture.
 
2012-10-02 09:48:01 AM  

syberpud: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: The Muthaship: Public Savant: Why doesn't the city just tear the buildings down to make parks?
Seriously.

Because that costs money, too.

If Detroit's anything like Pittsburgh, it costs about $20,000/single family structure to tear down a building correctly. A shiatty demo job can be done for $10K if you collapse the building into the foundation, but you'll end up with bigger problems down the road (like rats and leaking water/sewer lines).

And depending on what is standing there now there may be environmental hazards. There is no incentive to spend a lot of money for a park that will have questionable use - who will frequent a park in downtown Detroit?


Yep. Didn't get into PCBs, asbestos, light ballasts, stored chemicals, or anything else that hampers demolition.
 
2012-10-02 09:49:01 AM  
I know everyone likes to dog on poor Detroit, but what happened there is going to happen everywhere. They are just the canary in the coal mine - the first to go due to a very high dependence on the automotive sector.

But thanks to companies like Bain (who make the greatest profits on offshoring) and the willingness of the American consumer to prefer to save a few pennies on imports - we can all expect a similar future. Detroit failed because they lost their wealth creating jobs and the people left. The same thing is happening nationwide - that is why we won't ever break 8% unemployment again. If it wasn't for massive borrowing to stimulate the economy, we would be well over 10% unemployment and more and more cities would look like Detroit. That trend would continue to expand as the remaining wealth is quickly used to buy more and more imports since domestic production is neglected. Eventually the dollar starts devaluing, making suburbia impossible to live in with $15 gasoline. Then things get all Katrina. But keep buying that Chinese junk you don't need (and will have to replace next year when it breaks).
 
2012-10-02 09:49:23 AM  
Maybe there's a heap o' skulls in the way?

Turning suburbs into farmland is the way forward, people.
 
2012-10-02 09:51:34 AM  

neenerist: sodomizer: Once the unions took over.....

Detroit began its collapse after the Flint sit down strike of 1936?


One from the files. Washington Blvd., downtown Detroit, 1939.
You could doublepark if the driver stayed with the car. Few drove alone then.
And that car on the right is a Packard. That says a lot right there - no more Packards.
www.autolife.umd.umich.edu
 
2012-10-02 09:54:24 AM  

JackieRabbit: archichris: JackieRabbit: Oh good lord. Detroit has been a dying, decaying, crime-ridden, industrial shiathole most of my life. Now it is almost dead. This is what happens when a city puts all its eggs in one basket.

Pensions killed Detroit. Public and private Pensions. It really was the Unions fault.

No. It wasn't. It was the auto industry itself. They haven't been able to effectively compete with the Japanese for over three decades now. They've even off-shored a lot of manufacturing and assembly and they still cannot compete. The auto industry started building its own casket back in the 1970s, when they decided that crappy, gas guzzling cars that would fall apart in just a few years was acceptable.


Moron. American cars are extremely well built. All cars sucked in the 70s. Unions are killing the American auto industry, nothing more. Hopey McGM screwed things up even worse by "saving" GM.
 
2012-10-02 09:55:31 AM  

The Muthaship: I bet this one confused the Brits:

[i1240.photobucket.com image 400x584]


Came here to say this....

i1247.photobucket.com

But I left laughing my ballz off!

/+1
 
2012-10-02 09:57:06 AM  
i.dailymail.co.uk

Pretty awesome pic imho
 
2012-10-02 09:59:13 AM  

stuhayes2010: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x663]

Where is this? Chemistry flasks can be pricey. I will liberate them.


No one even took the balance? That seems odd, because in my day, the scales were the first things people stole from labs, even if it was a beat to shiat Dial-a-Gram.
 
2012-10-02 09:59:53 AM  
The average compensation package for an American auto worker is about $40/hr (that includes everything, health care, pension, vacation wages, etc). The average compensation for a German auto worker is about $70/hr. The German auto companies build high quality cars that are desired by people all over the world, and those same companies are profitable. The German auto workers are ALL unionized. They get more vacation than do American auto workers, and the Germans have (GASP!) COMMIE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.

The average compensation for a German worker is $70, of which $35 goes to taxes. Germany also has found a better solution than allowing unions to sabotage the car companies, thus making management a series of layers designed to work around that problem, thus paralyzing the (larger) American car companies from making decisions.

I don't agree that it was pensions. I think it's unions. Union rules make American workers useless and interrupt work flow, union strikes forced the auto makers to adopt other practices to stay solvent, union politics requires layers of middle management, and union attitudes make for inefficient, resentful workers. This in turn makes the company adapt.

When you have unions mucking up labor, most people are going to either (a) not work in the auto industry or (b) take on a lackadaisical outlook toward quality and other factors. The main job is to not have a strike shut down the plants.
 
jlt
2012-10-02 10:01:46 AM  

neenerist: ManRay: The pictures of the Michigan Theater being used as a parking garage are really odd.

Detroit smiles at your notion of odd.


In all fairness, the body wasn't going anywhere. And it was nicely preserved.
 
2012-10-02 10:08:58 AM  

sodomizer: The average compensation package for an American auto worker is about $40/hr (that includes everything, health care, pension, vacation wages, etc). The average compensation for a German auto worker is about $70/hr. The German auto companies build high quality cars that are desired by people all over the world, and those same companies are profitable. The German auto workers are ALL unionized. They get more vacation than do American auto workers, and the Germans have (GASP!) COMMIE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.

The average compensation for a German worker is $70, of which $35 goes to taxes. Germany also has found a better solution than allowing unions to sabotage the car companies, thus making management a series of layers designed to work around that problem, thus paralyzing the (larger) American car companies from making decisions.

I don't agree that it was pensions. I think it's unions. Union rules make American workers useless and interrupt work flow, union strikes forced the auto makers to adopt other practices to stay solvent, union politics requires layers of middle management, and union attitudes make for inefficient, resentful workers. This in turn makes the company adapt.

When you have unions mucking up labor, most people are going to either (a) not work in the auto industry or (b) take on a lackadaisical outlook toward quality and other factors. The main job is to not have a strike shut down the plants.


BS

If Unions are that troublesome it should be easy to distinguish their presence.

Here is a good example. AT&T Mobile and Verizon Wireless. Without searching online, guess which one is a union shop? Seriously, one mobile provider is totally union (IBEW) and the other is completely union-free.
 
2012-10-02 10:10:14 AM  
I've been to Detroit several times in the past few months. Many areas of downtown feel like a ghost town and are quite eerie, however there are people there who are taking advantage of the decline in some interesting ways. The last time i was there we came upon a rock concert in a large burned out apartment building; stages built from old wood scraps, no id checks, no entry fee, no guards and free beer. It was pretty damn cool. The advantage now is that no one cares what you do there so you have tremendous freedom. There was a cop across the street from said concert smoking a cigarette while the kids inside partied, he did not give a crap. In any other city there would be guards, wristbands and a $20 entrance fee. The old Detroit is dead but there is a new one taking form.
 
2012-10-02 10:21:03 AM  

sodomizer: Union rules make American workers useless and interrupt work flow...


When all you have is a hammer. Germany has unions. UAW workers made roughly the same inflation-adjusted wage I did as a summer student in the 1970's until the recent dual tier agreement halved it for new hires. Data is a biatch.
 
2012-10-02 10:22:33 AM  

Thunderpipes: All cars sucked in the 70s


Compared to today? Yes. Back then? No, they didn't. Toyotas, Datsuns, and Hondas were much more reliable and were cheaper to drive, too. I drove a hand-me-down '75 Datsun B-210 through HS and most of college, and I wasn't all that kind to it...by the time it finally got wrecked, it was 12 years old, and I probably could have gotten a few more years out of it. There was NO American vehicle manufactured in 1975 that could have taken that kind of abuse, much less not rusted off the frame.

/done feeding the troll
 
2012-10-02 10:24:01 AM  
The execs did the same thing to Detroit and the car companies that they're doing to banks and healthcare now.

Enjoy mocking Detroit while you can because it's coming to your town too.
 
2012-10-02 10:31:26 AM  
Unions aren't perfect, although they never would have gotten a foothold if management actually managed for the the big picture. Like in science, there was/is a reaction to an action. Unions grew from corporate avarice.

My understanding is in Germany management and unions compromised with each other a lot more since the whole place had to rebuild after WWII.

Lesson we should have learned? Plan for the big picture, since Asia and Europe would eventually rebuild. And insist engineers design something people would want to buy. GM faltered because of crap like the Cimarron.
 
2012-10-02 10:38:24 AM  

dennysgod: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 470x588]

Pretty awesome pic imho


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-02 10:46:42 AM  

mytdawg: The execs did the same thing to Detroit and the car companies that they're doing to banks and healthcare now.

Enjoy mocking Detroit while you can because it's coming to your town too.


The unions did to GM what they are doing to public enterprises now.

Enjoy mocking Detroit because it's coming to your town (assuming that it's public employees are highly unionized) too.

/my gross generalization is much closer to the truth than yours
 
mhd
2012-10-02 10:47:17 AM  

sodomizer: The average compensation for a German worker is $70, of which $35 goes to taxes.


Where did you get that from? Average wage is about $35. Granted, Volkswagen has a pretty high average ($50), but that's weighted. Never mind that there's a huge influx right now from temporary workers - basically one reason why the German economy is doing relatively well despite general draconic employment laws & regulations. At one time BMW hat 17% temps, and after some heavy arguments with their regular employees they promised to reduce it half that.

Which is a good example, as those arguments weren't with the unions, but with their works council ("Betriebsrat"), elected members of the workforce who often are able to prevent and resolve conflicts without going to an union level. Not exactly a position without corruption problems, but generally a pretty successful model. I know some other European countries have something similar, but I'm not sure about the US. And generally the unions there tend to appear a bit more aggressive, i.e. it's often more about abrupt strikes than a general back-and-forth.
 
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