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(CBS Sports)   The AL MVP discussion is starting to mirror American political discourse, with angry old traditionalists on the side of Miguel Cabrera and relativist hipster douchebags on the side of Mike Trout. Both sides are bad, so vote for Adrian Beltre   (cbssports.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Miguel Cabrera, MVP, Discussion, al mvp, Rob Parker, cherry-picks, rational arguments, douche bags  
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533 clicks; posted to Sports » on 01 Oct 2012 at 8:09 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-01 08:58:48 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Hillbilly Jim: Cabrera has scored 108 runs not too bad from the 3 hole. He leads his team in runs scored btw.

Would we not expect someone hitting in front of Prince Fielder to score a lot of runs?

Both runs and rbis are stupid stats...but it's really, really hard to argue RBI are more valuable. Trout leads the league in runs despite missing the first month. That's at least as important as Cabrera leading in RBI, yeah?


Would we not expect someone hitting in front of Albert Pujols and Tori Hunter to score a lot of runs? That's a weak argument
 
2012-10-01 08:59:17 PM  

Hillbilly Jim: Checking the two teams on espn, Detroit has three guys hitting better than 280., the Angles have 7


Am I going to have to copy & paste my "I don't care about batting average" post from the Jeter thread?

It's really, really tough to compare two teams offenses while simultaneously removing a player. But both teams are pretty dang good offensively. 

You'd need to look at more than just BA to see that, though.
 
2012-10-01 09:00:27 PM  

Hillbilly Jim: nein: Hillbilly Jim:

Maybe its the added power, or 50 some rbi. Trout also has a better line up behind him.

Well jeez, could the difference in RBI possibly be attributed to the fact that Trout hits leadoff (thus, he has the likes of Maicer Izturis and Vernon Wells hitting in front of him)? And of course he has a better lineup behind him- he hits leadoff, so the best hitters on the team are presumably hitting 3rd and 4th.

But it's not like Cabrera's the only guy in that Detroit lineup. That Prince Fielder guy is pretty good. And it certainly helps your RBI totals when you have Austin Jackson's speed getting on base at a .370 clip.

Checking the two teams on espn, Detroit has three guys hitting better than 280., the Angles have 7


Ugh... if we're really relying on AVG as the indicator, then it's not worth my trying to argue this point. But here's my last shot anyway- OBPs, LAA: .331, DET .335. SLGs, LAA: .434, DET .424. The difference between both offenses is not huge.
 
2012-10-01 09:01:04 PM  

Hillbilly Jim: Would we not expect someone hitting in front of Albert Pujols and Tori Hunter to score a lot of runs? That's a weak argument


In fact, we would.

So let's agree not to use RBI or Runs. Deal?
 
2012-10-01 09:02:35 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Hillbilly Jim: Would we not expect someone hitting in front of Albert Pujols and Tori Hunter to score a lot of runs? That's a weak argument

In fact, we would.

So let's agree not to use RBI or Runs. Deal?


Deal
 
2012-10-01 09:02:43 PM  
WAR is everything. You just KNOW Peavy, Kuroda and Sale are better than Weaver, Gonzalez, and Strasburg. That's a given. And I know everyone would rather have David Wright over Miguel Cabrera or who wouldn't take Ben Zobrist or Chase Headley over Josh Hamilton or Joey Votto? It's a foolproof stat that is the be all end all of baseball, get used to it. Also Verlander is default Cy Young by WAR.
 
2012-10-01 09:02:50 PM  

nein: Ugh... if we're really relying on AVG as the indicator, then it's not worth my trying to argue this point. But here's my last shot anyway- OBPs, LAA: .331, DET .335. SLGs, LAA: .434, DET .424. The difference between both offenses is not huge.


It is worth noting that, as I said, Anaheim plays in a pitcher friendlier park. The Anaheim offense IS better than the Detroit one.

The question, therefore, is how much of that is Trout/Cabrera.

But either way...what does it really matter? If the offense is awesome without him, does that make Trout worse?
 
2012-10-01 09:04:02 PM  

Hillbilly Jim: DeWayne Mann: Hillbilly Jim: Cabrera has scored 108 runs not too bad from the 3 hole. He leads his team in runs scored btw.

Would we not expect someone hitting in front of Prince Fielder to score a lot of runs?

Both runs and rbis are stupid stats...but it's really, really hard to argue RBI are more valuable. Trout leads the league in runs despite missing the first month. That's at least as important as Cabrera leading in RBI, yeah?

Would we not expect someone hitting in front of Albert Pujols and Tori Hunter to score a lot of runs? That's a weak argument


I'd expect a #3 hitter behind Austin Jackson to have a ton of RBIs too, no?
 
2012-10-01 09:04:46 PM  

MichiganFTL: WAR is everything.


Yeah, except for one guy, no one is really arguing this. And I don't think ANYONE would argue that, for instance, a WAR of 5.5 is CLEARLY BETTER than a WAR of 5.2.

It is, however, a fantastic place to start.

'Course, that would require you to understand how it works. You clearly do not.
 
2012-10-01 09:05:00 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Yeah, that Tigers lineup is terrible without Cabrera.


Actually...

And if I recall correctly, you didn't think Verlander was gonna win it last year. Isn't this year gonna be kinda similar?

2011:
Verlander: Playoff team, guaranteed Cy Young, pitcher
Ellsbury: No playoffs, no cute other award, everyday player

2012:
Cabrera: Playoff team (?), triple crown (?), bad defender
Trout: No playoffs, guaranteed Rookie of the Year, great all-around player
 
2012-10-01 09:06:11 PM  

DeWayne Mann: nein: Ugh... if we're really relying on AVG as the indicator, then it's not worth my trying to argue this point. But here's my last shot anyway- OBPs, LAA: .331, DET .335. SLGs, LAA: .434, DET .424. The difference between both offenses is not huge.

It is worth noting that, as I said, Anaheim plays in a pitcher friendlier park. The Anaheim offense IS better than the Detroit one.

The question, therefore, is how much of that is Trout/Cabrera.

But either way...what does it really matter? If the offense is awesome without him, does that make Trout worse?


That's why I said the difference isn't huge. You're right, Anaheim's is better. But the difference isn't so big that one can say that either player really carried their offense more than the other.
 
2012-10-01 09:08:09 PM  

SilentStrider: Keith Law is a hipster?


No. A gaping coont.
 
2012-10-01 09:09:35 PM  

DeWayne Mann: If the offense is awesome without him, does that make Trout worse?


Nope, but it certainly makes him less "valuable"
 
2012-10-01 09:10:50 PM  

ignatius_crumbcake: And if I recall correctly, you didn't think Verlander was gonna win it last year. Isn't this year gonna be kinda similar?


I have no clue what I THOUGHT was going to happen. In general, I try not to predict the voters.

I did support Jacoby Ellsbury for MVP last year, though, yes.
 
2012-10-01 09:11:12 PM  
There's an argument to be made about which player should win. But I don't think there's much doubt about who will win. Cabrera.

Playoff team, run at triple crown and playing in the east will be all he needs to get writers' votes.
 
2012-10-01 09:13:17 PM  

MichiganFTL: WAR is everything. You just KNOW Peavy, Kuroda and Sale are better than Weaver, Gonzalez, and Strasburg. That's a given. And I know everyone would rather have David Wright over Miguel Cabrera or who wouldn't take Ben Zobrist or Chase Headley over Josh Hamilton or Joey Votto? It's a foolproof stat that is the be all end all of baseball, get used to it. Also Verlander is default Cy Young by WAR.


Which is why everyone thinks that the NL MVP is a no brainier as well. Wait, you mean that's NOT the case? Huh.......
 
2012-10-01 09:14:47 PM  

ChrisDe: There's an argument to be made about which player should win. But I don't think there's much doubt about who will win. Cabrera.

Playoff team, run at triple crown and playing in the east will be all he needs to get writers' votes.


I really think it's going to be close. Sabermetrics is starting to sink in with a lot of voters, and the fact that there's even a debate is pretty amazing, considering that the Juan Gonzalez vote was only 16 years ago.
 
2012-10-01 09:15:44 PM  
Cabrera's gonna get this cause he's a Mexican in Obama's America.

Sad how PC our once proud country now is.
 
2012-10-01 09:16:06 PM  

nein: ChrisDe: There's an argument to be made about which player should win. But I don't think there's much doubt about who will win. Cabrera.

Playoff team, run at triple crown and playing in the east will be all he needs to get writers' votes.

I really think it's going to be close. Sabermetrics is starting to sink in with a lot of voters, and the fact that there's even a debate is pretty amazing, considering that the Juan Gonzalez vote was only 16 years ago.


I think it will be close too. One of those years where both are deserving.
 
2012-10-01 09:18:00 PM  

slacker575: DeWayne Mann: If the offense is awesome without him, does that make Trout worse?

Nope, but it certainly makes him less "valuable"


So to be the most valuable, it helps to be on a playoff team that isn't TOO good?  Interesting.
 
2012-10-01 09:20:22 PM  

ChrisDe: There's an argument to be made about which player should win. But I don't think there's much doubt about who will win. Cabrera.

Playoff team, run at triple crown and playing in the east will be all he needs to get writers' votes.


Ok, let's say that you're right.

Doesn't that mean we should talk about who should win even more?
 
2012-10-01 09:20:26 PM  

Rex_Banner: I've never been called a hipster douchebag before. So that's cool

/Trout/Posey: for a better America


Speaking of those,
 
2012-10-01 09:33:47 PM  
Home run Cabrera, second hit tonight.
 
2012-10-01 09:33:59 PM  
44. MVP chants in Kansas City.
 
2012-10-01 09:34:56 PM  

ChrisDe: Home run Cabrera, second hit tonight.


Yeah, all things above said, he's pretty ridiculous.
 
2012-10-01 09:35:50 PM  
Sounds like the two biggest knocks on Miggy is his defense and stolen bases.

Fielding percentages for 3rd basemen in the AL
RK PLAYER TEAM GP GS FULL TC PO A E DP FPCT
1 Adrian Beltre TEX 129 129 1125 312 95 209 8 23 .974
2 Mike Moustakas KC 148 146 1306 453 126 312 15 41 .967
3 Miguel Cabrera DET 151 151 1305 379 125 241 13 31 .966

Fielding percentages for CF in the AL
RK PLAYER TEAM GP GS FULL TC PO A E DP FPCT
1 Curtis Granderson NYY 154 149 1336 341 338 3 0 0 1.000
Craig Gentry TEX 113 65 641 194 187 7 0 2 1.000
3 Michael Brantley CLE 143 139 1228 342 336 5 1 3 .997
4 Austin Jackson DET 135 133 1171 336 331 4 1 1 .997
5 Mike Trout LAA 108 106 872 265 261 2 2 1 .992

So Miggy is the third best fielding 3rd baseman and Trout is the 5th best fielding CF.

PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
Miguel Cabrera DET 612 108 199 40 0 43 136 4 1 66 97 .325 .390 .601 .991
Mike Trout LAA 546 127 175 25 7 30 80 48 4 67 136 .321 .395 .557 .952

Miggy, 24 more hits, 15 more doubles, 13 more home runs, 56 more RBI's .004 better average, better slg and OPS

Trout, 19 more runs, 7 more triples, 44 more stolen bases, one more walk slightly higher OBP.

Miggy - 388 total bases
Trout - 304 total bases if my math is correct. Add in his stolen bases and he still isn't there.

Plus Miggy just put one out. Trout is a sexy pick, Miggy is logic.
 
2012-10-01 09:38:27 PM  
I have no dog in the fight. POY to Cabrera, MVP to Trout. And I'm being kind to Cabrera, because Trout's a five-tool player, and Cabrera is nothing but a fat f*cking drunk who can hit the hell out of the ball, but not nearly as good as Babe Ruth.
 
2012-10-01 09:38:46 PM  

nein: ChrisDe: Home run Cabrera, second hit tonight.

Yeah, all things above said, he's pretty ridiculous.


Yeah, I don't think anyone has said otherwise.

great_tigers: Fielding percentages for 3rd basemen in the AL


No

great_tigers: So Miggy is the third best fielding 3rd baseman and Trout is the 5th best fielding CF.


NO

great_tigers: Miggy - 388 total bases
Trout - 304 total bases if my math is correct. Add in his stolen bases and he still isn't there.


...

great_tigers: Plus Miggy just put one out. Trout is a sexy pick, Miggy is logic.


This post has killed me. HARK, I AM SLAIN

(does anyone else want to handle it? i'm too busy crying and writing my congressman to improve national educational standards)
 
2012-10-01 09:38:51 PM  
*spit take*

CURTIS GRANDERSON HAS FORTY FARKING HOMERS?

/liked him a lot, sad day when we traded him
 
2012-10-01 09:39:34 PM  

DeWayne Mann: nein: ChrisDe: Home run Cabrera, second hit tonight.

Yeah, all things above said, he's pretty ridiculous.

Yeah, I don't think anyone has said otherwise.

great_tigers: Fielding percentages for 3rd basemen in the AL

No

great_tigers: So Miggy is the third best fielding 3rd baseman and Trout is the 5th best fielding CF.

NO

great_tigers: Miggy - 388 total bases
Trout - 304 total bases if my math is correct. Add in his stolen bases and he still isn't there.

...

great_tigers: Plus Miggy just put one out. Trout is a sexy pick, Miggy is logic.

This post has killed me. HARK, I AM SLAIN

(does anyone else want to handle it? i'm too busy crying and writing my congressman to improve national educational standards)


http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/league/al

How so?
 
2012-10-01 09:39:58 PM  

great_tigers: Sounds like the two biggest knocks on Miggy is his defense and stolen bases.

Fielding percentages for 3rd basemen in the AL
RK PLAYER TEAM GP GS FULL TC PO A E DP FPCT
1 Adrian Beltre TEX 129 129 1125 312 95 209 8 23 .974
2 Mike Moustakas KC 148 146 1306 453 126 312 15 41 .967
3 Miguel Cabrera DET 151 151 1305 379 125 241 13 31 .966

Fielding percentages for CF in the AL
RK PLAYER TEAM GP GS FULL TC PO A E DP FPCT
1 Curtis Granderson NYY 154 149 1336 341 338 3 0 0 1.000
Craig Gentry TEX 113 65 641 194 187 7 0 2 1.000
3 Michael Brantley CLE 143 139 1228 342 336 5 1 3 .997
4 Austin Jackson DET 135 133 1171 336 331 4 1 1 .997
5 Mike Trout LAA 108 106 872 265 261 2 2 1 .992

So Miggy is the third best fielding 3rd baseman and Trout is the 5th best fielding CF.

PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
Miguel Cabrera DET 612 108 199 40 0 43 136 4 1 66 97 .325 .390 .601 .991
Mike Trout LAA 546 127 175 25 7 30 80 48 4 67 136 .321 .395 .557 .952

Miggy, 24 more hits, 15 more doubles, 13 more home runs, 56 more RBI's .004 better average, better slg and OPS

Trout, 19 more runs, 7 more triples, 44 more stolen bases, one more walk slightly higher OBP.

Miggy - 388 total bases
Trout - 304 total bases if my math is correct. Add in his stolen bases and he still isn't there.

Plus Miggy just put one out. Trout is a sexy pick, Miggy is logic.


This is worse than relying on AVG to decide who's a better hitter. Anyone who thinks Granderson is a better CF than Trout because of his FPct is smoking something I'd like to buy (and I'm a Yankee fan).

Cabrera does a fine job of fielding balls that are hit to him. So does Derek Jeter. If hitters would just start hitting balls right at fielders all the time, they'd both be awfully fine fielders.
 
2012-10-01 09:41:28 PM  

great_tigers: So Miggy is the third best fielding 3rd baseman and Trout is the 5th best fielding CF.


Really?

So, the third best of the infield retards is as good as the fifth best at the toughest outfield position? Well, okay.
 
2012-10-01 09:42:16 PM  

great_tigers: Sounds like the two biggest knocks on Miggy is his defense and stolen bases.

Fielding percentages for 3rd basemen in the AL
RK PLAYER TEAM GP GS FULL TC PO A E DP FPCT
1 Adrian Beltre TEX 129 129 1125 312 95 209 8 23 .974
2 Mike Moustakas KC 148 146 1306 453 126 312 15 41 .967
3 Miguel Cabrera DET 151 151 1305 379 125 241 13 31 .966

Fielding percentages for CF in the AL
RK PLAYER TEAM GP GS FULL TC PO A E DP FPCT
1 Curtis Granderson NYY 154 149 1336 341 338 3 0 0 1.000
Craig Gentry TEX 113 65 641 194 187 7 0 2 1.000
3 Michael Brantley CLE 143 139 1228 342 336 5 1 3 .997
4 Austin Jackson DET 135 133 1171 336 331 4 1 1 .997
5 Mike Trout LAA 108 106 872 265 261 2 2 1 .992

So Miggy is the third best fielding 3rd baseman and Trout is the 5th best fielding CF.

PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
Miguel Cabrera DET 612 108 199 40 0 43 136 4 1 66 97 .325 .390 .601 .991
Mike Trout LAA 546 127 175 25 7 30 80 48 4 67 136 .321 .395 .557 .952

Miggy, 24 more hits, 15 more doubles, 13 more home runs, 56 more RBI's .004 better average, better slg and OPS

Trout, 19 more runs, 7 more triples, 44 more stolen bases, one more walk slightly higher OBP.

Miggy - 388 total bases
Trout - 304 total bases if my math is correct. Add in his stolen bases and he still isn't there.

Plus Miggy just put one out. Trout is a sexy pick, Miggy is logic.


Fielding percentage only measures the balls that a player fields. It doesn't account for range. Cabrera has great hands but shiatty range. With Peralta and Cabrera on the left side there are a TON of balls that never get fielded.

Miggy is more like the second worst fielding everyday third baseman. But he is amongst the highest in innings played at the position, so his offense more than makes up for it (in my opinion). If the Tigers had a good defensive shortstop with range then we wouldn't even notice the shiat Cabrera misses.
 
2012-10-01 09:44:22 PM  

great_tigers: How so?


There's like 50 friggen problems with that post and you're like "hey look a link to espn that I didn't bother to hyperlink for you."

Let's start with this: fielding percentage is just a terrible, terrible way to evaluate how good someone is on defense.
 
2012-10-01 09:45:28 PM  

puffy999: great_tigers: So Miggy is the third best fielding 3rd baseman and Trout is the 5th best fielding CF.

Really?

So, the third best of the infield retards is as good as the fifth best at the toughest outfield position? Well, okay.


You're talking about a position that has a lot more opportunities for errors to be committed. Show me these "fielding" percentages that shows Cabby is so terrible at. Then show me these same stats that Trout has more than one halo.

Then show me that Trout is a better hitter.

Golden glove does not equal MVP.
 
2012-10-01 09:46:36 PM  

ignatius_crumbcake: But he is amongst the highest in innings played at the position, so his offense more than makes up for it (in my opinion).


In the sense that he is, overall, not a negative value player? Absolutely.

But if we're talking about Trout still, welllllllll....
 
2012-10-01 09:46:41 PM  
Angels are not in the playoffs, so I vote Cabrera.

/good effort, Trout
 
2012-10-01 09:47:44 PM  

DeWayne Mann: great_tigers: How so?

There's like 50 friggen problems with that post and you're like "hey look a link to espn that I didn't bother to hyperlink for you."

Let's start with this: fielding percentage is just a terrible, terrible way to evaluate how good someone is on defense.


Show me these stats then. Compare Miggy to other every day third basemen and compare Trout to other everyday CFs.

Then show me comparable stats as far as hitting to these other people.

I keep getting told how stupid I am, I provided stats that I felt were credible. I am simply asking for some in return.
 
2012-10-01 09:48:20 PM  

Twitch Boy: *spit take*

CURTIS GRANDERSON HAS FORTY FARKING HOMERS?

/liked him a lot, sad day when we traded him


Isn't he batting like 240, Austin Jackson has improved greatly as a hitter and lead off hitter this year.
 
2012-10-01 09:49:16 PM  

great_tigers: Show me these "fielding" percentages that shows Cabby is so terrible at.


UZR, TZR, DRS, +/-, FRAA....

great_tigers: Then show me that Trout is a better hitter.


OK.

OPS+ is a stat that takes a player's OBP & SLG (commonly added together and called OPS), adjusts them for park (because a .500 SLG in PETCO is more valuable than a .500 SLG in Coors) and then compares them to the average hitter. An OPS+ of 100 is average.

As of this morning, Mike Trout led the AL in OPS+. Cabrera's HR probably changed that. Either way, it's real close.
 
2012-10-01 09:50:13 PM  

great_tigers: puffy999: great_tigers: So Miggy is the third best fielding 3rd baseman and Trout is the 5th best fielding CF.

Really?

So, the third best of the infield retards is as good as the fifth best at the toughest outfield position? Well, okay.

You're talking about a position that has a lot more opportunities for errors to be committed. Show me these "fielding" percentages that shows Cabby is so terrible at. Then show me these same stats that Trout has more than one halo.

Then show me that Trout is a better hitter.

Golden glove does not equal MVP.


Trout is not a better hitter. That's the pro-Cabby argument.

But Cabby can't play defense particularly well and doesn't steal bases. Trout excels at everything. Cabby will actually win the MVP for reasons already discussed, but stats will not be amongst those reasons.

And for defense stats, look at dWAR and UZR.
 
2012-10-01 09:51:14 PM  

thecpt: Twitch Boy: *spit take*

CURTIS GRANDERSON HAS FORTY FARKING HOMERS?

/liked him a lot, sad day when we traded him

Isn't he batting like 240, Austin Jackson has improved greatly as a hitter and lead off hitter this year.


Not to mention Scherzer and (gulp) Coke.
 
2012-10-01 09:51:24 PM  
Simplez:

Triple crown = MVP.
No triple crown, you can use your new stats if you want to. Don't really care.
 
2012-10-01 09:51:50 PM  

great_tigers: Show me these stats then. Compare Miggy to other every day third basemen and compare Trout to other everyday CFs.


UZR is a stat that compares players to each other, then puts the result in the form of "runs above average."

Compared to all other CF, Mike Trout is 13 runs above average according to UZR.

Compared to all other 3B, Miguel Cabrera is 9 runs below average according to UZR. 

10 runs is commonly referred to as a Win. So on defense alone, Trout is worth 2 wins more than Cabrera, according to UZR.
 
2012-10-01 09:52:06 PM  

ChrisDe: There's an argument to be made about which player should win. But I don't think there's much doubt about who will win. Cabrera.

Playoff team, run at triple crown and playing in the east will be all he needs to get writers' votes.


Thus marking the first time Detroit has ever been accused of benefiting from an east coast bias.

/Because there's so little media power in LA.
 
2012-10-01 09:52:12 PM  

ignatius_crumbcake: great_tigers: puffy999: great_tigers: So Miggy is the third best fielding 3rd baseman and Trout is the 5th best fielding CF.

Really?

So, the third best of the infield retards is as good as the fifth best at the toughest outfield position? Well, okay.

You're talking about a position that has a lot more opportunities for errors to be committed. Show me these "fielding" percentages that shows Cabby is so terrible at. Then show me these same stats that Trout has more than one halo.

Then show me that Trout is a better hitter.

Golden glove does not equal MVP.

Trout is not a better hitter. That's the pro-Cabby argument.

But Cabby can't play defense particularly well and doesn't steal bases. Trout excels at everything. Cabby will actually win the MVP for reasons already discussed, but stats will not be amongst those reasons.

And for defense stats, look at dWAR and UZR.


Stats, show me stats that Cabby can't play defense particularly well! Show me the money!
 
2012-10-01 09:52:43 PM  
Enough with the goddamn sabermetrics and defensive statistics. The guy has a legit chance to get the triple motherf*cking crown. Stop arguing and give him the MVP.

It is, literally, the only point of argument you need.
 
2012-10-01 09:53:18 PM  

ignatius_crumbcake: Trout is not a better hitter. That's the pro-Cabby argument.


No, Trout probably is the better hitter. If not, it's awfully close.

WMittensRomney: Simplez:

Triple crown = MVP.
No triple crown, you can use your new stats if you want to. Don't really care.


So, again, you're comfortable with Josh Hamilton, Edwin Encarnacion & Joe Mauer deciding who wins the MVP?
 
2012-10-01 09:53:55 PM  

bhcompy: Hillbilly Jim: nein: Nehllah: I'm getting really sick of this conversation. Trout is a good story but even if Miguel doesn't win the triple crown he deserves it.

You're sick of being wrong?

Does anyone else find it ironic that "traditionalists" are supporting Cabrera? After all, wasn't Ted Williams denied the MVP in his Triple Crown Years because he wasn't as good an all-around player as DiMaggio and Gordon?

Seriously, though, if Cabrera and Trout weren't comparable offensively, then this wouldn't be close. But they *are* comparable offensively, and with Trout's tremendous baserunning and fantastic defense, combined with Cabrera's rather lousy defense, it frankly shouldn't even be close- Trout is the MVP.

It's not best player, it is most valuable. Otherwise Ken Griffey jr and Barry Bonds would have won all of the MVP titles in the 90's.

So most valuable. Who has the highest WAR? That is value, defined.


Aww, that's cute, you like made up numbers.

Someone else said it, MVP=most VALUABLE player, not best player.

Trout is far and away the rookie of the year, no one debates that. That's what he gets for being really, really good. Trout will have a long career to win everything else.

Miguel is currently in the lead to with the triple crown, he's a leader on a team that looks like it will make the postseason, he gave up first base to play a position he hasn't played in years because he knew what Fielder would mean to the team and he plays his ass off every night and has been far better than anyone was expecting defensively.
 
2012-10-01 09:54:03 PM  

rcantley: Thus marking the first time Detroit has ever been accused of benefiting from an east coast bias.


Hey, they used to be in the AL East!

bulldg4life: Enough with the goddamn sabermetrics and defensive statistics. The guy has a legit chance to get the triple motherf*cking crown. Stop arguing and give him the MVP.

It is, literally, the only point of argument you need.


DeWayne Mann: So, again, you're comfortable with Josh Hamilton, Edwin Encarnacion & Joe Mauer deciding who wins the MVP?

 
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