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(Mercury News)   Governor Moonbeam swings back to sanity, requires unvaxed students to have an actual doctor's note explaining why their parents hate them   (mercurynews.com) divider line 244
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17580 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Oct 2012 at 4:33 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-01 01:05:31 PM
content6.flixster.com

Does not approve
 
2012-10-01 01:10:34 PM
The Artists community is relieved.
 
2012-10-01 01:14:11 PM
This is like the third headline in 2 days to say "Governor Moonbeam does X" when all he did was sign a bill into law. Do people not think the CA legislature exists?
 
2012-10-01 01:16:21 PM
Except that violates federal law & is meaningless
 
2012-10-01 01:17:44 PM

borg: Except that violates federal law & is meaningless


How does this violate federal law?
 
2012-10-01 01:26:45 PM

DamnYankees: How does this violate federal law?


First amendment rights, yo. The freedom of artistic expression.
 
2012-10-01 01:33:38 PM
My middle-school aged children are vaccinated to the hilt. Those boys won't be speading HPV or any other damn thing.
 
2012-10-01 01:37:11 PM

borg: Except that violates federal law & is meaningless


grantjkidney.com

originally posted with this picture

/always hit preview
//he's big in the ant-vacc, anti-gov movement
 
2012-10-01 01:39:13 PM
Hmmm, I brought up in the thread about him signing the law that says parents can't send their "gay" kids to "straight therapy", that, while I applaud it, couldn't you make the same claim of "bad parenting" about the anti-vaxxers?

I see he also thought the same thing.
 
2012-10-01 01:44:04 PM
Man, back when I was in school you either got your shots or you got booted. I think the difference was there were still a lot of parents, administrators, and public policy makers who remembered what things used to be like.
 
2012-10-01 01:45:33 PM
Good.

If only it were the parents of the unvaccinated who got TB instead of the kids.
 
2012-10-01 01:47:35 PM
All this does is make more paperwork for doctors and nurses. We really need to make these parents attend 20 hours of vaccine education classes, spread over 16 days, at least 50 miles from their homes, during the work week, and charge $2000 a pop.
 
2012-10-01 01:52:46 PM
Her name Sanji Patel and she has polio. But her California friends just call her "Krrrazy Legs"!
t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-01 01:53:32 PM

Sybarite: Man, back when I was in school you either got your shots or you got booted. I think the difference was there were still a lot of parents, administrators, and public policy makers who remembered what things used to be like.


Exactly.

I've had some elderly people on my street that just flat out asked me if my kids were vaccinated. Don't remember how the conversation came up, just that they wanted to know. I think their granddaughter had decided to not vaccinate her kids, until they told her the horror stories related to polio they had seen as kids.

They're up to date on everything they are supposed to be for school (except the flu shot, since Target won't give the shot to kids). I'm up to date on flu and Tdap, will get MMR booster next year, because I was flat on my ass for half a day after the two shots, but that's mostly because I pass out when I get any sort of shot or blood drawn. Just thinking about it makes me woozy.
 
2012-10-01 02:03:31 PM
I guess on the one hand, this could lead to some doctors actually changing a few minds. on the other hand... when the unvaccinated children start making the vaccinated children sick (herd immunity and all that good stuff), how are the state (and the schools) going to respond to the fact that it sanctioned irresponsible behavior?
 
2012-10-01 02:04:57 PM

kbronsito: I guess on the one hand, this could lead to some doctors actually changing a few minds. on the other hand... when the unvaccinated children start making the vaccinated children sick (herd immunity and all that good stuff), how are the state (and the schools) going to respond to the fact that it sanctioned irresponsible behavior?


Religious Freedom covers their asses like a measles rash
 
2012-10-01 02:09:39 PM
If you can find a physician to prescribe weed, you can find one to write a vaccination waiver. Maybe the same guy, in fact.
 
2012-10-01 02:27:45 PM
Unvaccinated children should be banned from public schools. No exceptions.
 
2012-10-01 03:27:46 PM

GAT_00: Unvaccinated children should be banned from public schools. No exceptions.


What about undocumented unvaccinated children?
 
2012-10-01 03:50:59 PM

Sybarite: Man, back when I was in school you either got your shots or you got booted. I think the difference was there were still a lot of parents, administrators, and public policy makers who remembered what things used to be like.


In the 60's and 70's every class lined up once a year for shots.

/still has a scar

Because People in power are Stupid: DamnYankees: How does this violate federal law?

First amendment rights, yo. The freedom of artistic expression.


In many states you can claim religious, personal or other reasons for exemptions to vaccinations.

mysticcat: If you can find a physician to prescribe weed, you can find one to write a vaccination waiver. Maybe the same guy, in fact.


Gotta love the West Coast.
 
2012-10-01 04:36:25 PM
Oh, you mean like a severe egg allergy that makes getting vaccines grown in eggs a bit of a problem?
 
2012-10-01 04:36:33 PM
"Governor Moonbeam" seems to be doing a better job than "Governor Adulterer."

At least Brown wants to get the financial house in order.
 
2012-10-01 04:36:44 PM
"Swings back to sanity", subby? He's been the most stable, sane, and approachable governor California's had... well, since the last time he was governor.
 
2012-10-01 04:37:17 PM
...Jerry Brown is governor again!? This really happen?!
 
2012-10-01 04:37:39 PM

HeartBurnKid: "Swings back to sanity", subby? He's been the most stable, sane, and approachable governor California's had... well, since the last time he was governor.


Jerry Brown was a bit crappy on his first go. So far he's doing a bit better.
 
2012-10-01 04:40:00 PM
If you reject science and society to the point that you pass on *vaccinations*, how can you still be Ok with public school?
 
2012-10-01 04:40:12 PM
As long as you have a waiver, the measles virus will know it's not permitted to infect your child.
 
2012-10-01 04:40:18 PM

TheDumbBlonde: GAT_00: Unvaccinated children should be banned from public schools. No exceptions.

What about undocumented unvaccinated children?


One could rightly assume that your specific subset would in fact fall under the greater umbrella of the original subset of unvaccinated. Thank you though for adding pretty much nothing to the conversation.
 
2012-10-01 04:40:18 PM

WizardofToast: HeartBurnKid: "Swings back to sanity", subby? He's been the most stable, sane, and approachable governor California's had... well, since the last time he was governor.

Jerry Brown was a bit crappy on his first go. So far he's doing a bit better.


Perhaps, but since his last time, we've had Deukmejian, Wilson, Davis, and Schwarzenegger. I'd be hard-pressed to say any of those were better.
 
2012-10-01 04:40:26 PM
But he once again shows his contempt for the people by banning a child from legally having more than 2 parents
 
2012-10-01 04:42:27 PM

TheDumbBlonde: My middle-school aged children are vaccinated to the hilt. Those boys won't be speading HPV or any other damn thing.


Read that as "middle-aged school children" a couple of times. Maybe I need a vaccine... probably too late.
 
2012-10-01 04:42:51 PM

Sybarite: Man, back when I was in school you either got your shots or you got booted. I think the difference was there were still a lot of parents, administrators, and public policy makers who remembered what things used to be like.


At 35, I'm at the tail end of this - grew up with a grandfather who suffered lifelong disabilities from his polio infection. The great-grandkids will only know of him as 'old', not really realizing that his disabilities have existed for decades for no reason connected to 'old age'. Personally, I'm all for vaccination.

On the requirement - at least this will remove those who are really worrying about the cost of a doctor's visit to get the shots; since they'll now need to see one anyways.

/I'm mostly a libertarian
//Would still support free vaccination in schools because disease is that scary for me.
 
2012-10-01 04:43:03 PM
AB2109 will require parents who enroll students who have not received the required public school vaccines to get a waiver from a physician or a nurse practitioner saying they have received information about the benefits and risks of immunization.

Oh gee, that'll help.
 
2012-10-01 04:43:28 PM
Opponents, including former "Saturday Night Live" actor Rob Schneider of Pacifica, said it infringes on parental rights and increases medical costs for families.


Well if the star of Duce Bigalow thinks it is a bad idea, who am I to argue. Obviously anyone of decides to appear in two Duce Bigalow films has wisdom...

Or to quote Ebert

Ebert said, "As chance would have it, I have won the Pulitzer Prize, and so I am qualified. Speaking in my official capacity as a Pulitzer Prize winner, Mr. Schneider, your movie sucks."
 
2012-10-01 04:44:01 PM
A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.
 
2012-10-01 04:44:19 PM

TheDumbBlonde: What about undocumented unvaccinated children?


They come from a country that still struggles with horrifying, yet preventable diseases. I doubt there are many anti-vaxxers in families that have actually watched a grandfather die of the plague.
 
2012-10-01 04:44:23 PM
In other news, Pakistan discontinued an important polio vaccination effort in light of the U.S. govt's use of medical NGOs to gather intel on bin Laden.

Unintended consequences?
 
2012-10-01 04:45:57 PM

borg: Except that violates federal law & is meaningless


1st Amendment isn't an all powerful excuse for everything. The central tenant of my religion could be, for example, raping your mother but that doesn't mean I won't go to jail if I rape your mother.
 
2012-10-01 04:46:32 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


Do you try to be this stupid every day or do it come naturally?
 
2012-10-01 04:47:49 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


So abortion is a transmittable disease, much like TB and smallpox. Good to know.
 
2012-10-01 04:48:15 PM

sabreWulf07: As long as you have a waiver, the measles virus will know it's not permitted to infect your child.


In California, clinic staff are required to enter these waivers in a "secure" online database. Once an outbreak occurs, guess who gets quarantined first. On my mobile now. Will retrieve link soon.
 
2012-10-01 04:48:37 PM

ddam: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

Do you try to be this stupid every day or do it come naturally?


You either believe it is your body and can do what you want or not. Can't have it both ways.
 
2012-10-01 04:49:04 PM
Jerry Brown must have read my post from a previous thread and sprung into action!

Link
 
2012-10-01 04:49:08 PM

meat0918: Target won't give the shot to kids


If you want to get flu shots for your kids, their pediatrician or family doctor should be able to do it. All kids 6 months and older can get the shot. If they're 8 or under, they have to get two doses 28 days apart for it to be fully effective, but they can still get it. Depending on your insurance plan, you may not even have to pay for the shots under the new Obamacare changes. Good luck!
 
2012-10-01 04:49:21 PM

FunkOut: Oh, you mean like a severe egg allergy that makes getting vaccines grown in eggs a bit of a problem?


I'm an allergist, so I see this not infrequently. Here's how I handle it: 1) Give the patient the vaccination.

That's it. Very simple.

Multiple studies show that even patients with documented true anaphylaxis to eggs can handle vaccinations. Despite this, many vaccine package inserts continue to say that it shouldn't be done. This is purely a CYA move due to all the litigious twatwaffles trolling for personal injury cases.
 
2012-10-01 04:49:30 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


When getting an abortion results in spontaneous miscarriages among innocent passersby, you'll have a valid comparison. Until then, you're ten pounds of derp in a five-pound bag.
 
2012-10-01 04:49:47 PM
Bill doesn't go far enough. This is one of those times that I say vaccinate the kids and if the parents don't like it, they can explain to social workers why they should be allowed to retain custody of their children.
 
2012-10-01 04:50:03 PM

FunkOut: Oh, you mean like a severe egg allergy that makes getting vaccines grown in eggs a bit of a problem?


Sure, as long as a doctor provides a signed letter stating the child's alergic reaction to any amount of egg is potentially life threatening (not just a bit of swelling in the immediate area of where the shot was administered). And it has to be a real medical doctor, not some hippy herbalist with an inkjet printed certificate in holistic wellness.
 
2012-10-01 04:50:04 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: ddam: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

Do you try to be this stupid every day or do it come naturally?

You either believe it is your body and can do what you want or not. Can't have it both ways.


Public health.
 
2012-10-01 04:51:31 PM
First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.

Second, many parents who refused vaccinations do so selectively, for the health of their children. Just like you wouldn't give your kid every medication under the son if you thought it was potentially harmful or unnecessary, so some parents treat vaccinations.

Third, the difference between the present and times past is that the number of required vaccinations are growing at a high rate. Why? Lack of critical thinking skills on the part of, well, everyone. Also, the power (and by power, I mean money) wielded by drug company lobbyists. You don't even need conspiracy theories to arrive at these conclusions.

/still thinks vaccines have their benefits and should be used appropriately
 
2012-10-01 04:53:17 PM

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.

Second, many parents who refused vaccinations do so selectively, for the health of their children. Just like you wouldn't give your kid every medication under the son if you thought it was potentially harmful or unnecessary, so some parents treat vaccinations.

Third, the difference between the present and times past is that the number of required vaccinations are growing at a high rate. Why? Lack of critical thinking skills on the part of, well, everyone. Also, the power (and by power, I mean money) wielded by drug company lobbyists. You don't even need conspiracy theories to arrive at these conclusions.

/still thinks vaccines have their benefits and should be used appropriately


So what you're really saying is that this is a troll thread.
 
2012-10-01 04:54:54 PM

DamnYankees: This is like the third headline in 2 days to say "Governor Moonbeam does X" when all he did was sign a bill into law. Do people not think the CA legislature exists?


Evidently. Apparently, all Californians do is sit around smoking dope and collecting welfare, when we're not surfing or something.
 
2012-10-01 04:55:05 PM
To all the uninfrommed people in this thread, the US does not give the BCG vaccine. So pick a different pathogen instead of TB please.
 
2012-10-01 04:56:12 PM
A family friend's wife is one the anti-vaccination bandwagon. She's big into all natural remedies and insists that their son will never be vaccinated. Rather than argue he took the kid to a clinic across town and got all his shots done. As far as I know she still has no idea and everyone is happy and not dead from measles.

/I'm amazed their kid kept his mouth shut. I'm sure there was lots of bribing.
 
2012-10-01 04:56:20 PM
If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?
 
2012-10-01 04:57:13 PM

HeartBurnKid: "Swings back to sanity", subby? He's been the most stable, sane, and approachable governor California's had... well, since the last time he was governor.


This.

Also, "Governor Moonbeam" still? I guess he'll never live down his utterly ridiculous suggestion of using a satellite (*guffaw*) to ensure communication in the event of a statewide disaster.
 
2012-10-01 04:58:20 PM
Jerry Brown is far more sane than, say, oh, any Republican you can think of.
 
2012-10-01 04:58:25 PM
one of my cousins didn;t vaccinate her kid for anything.

next summer, they are going to India. with no plans to get any vaccinations.

*facepalm*
 
2012-10-01 04:58:58 PM
The gay therapy ban is a real slap in the face to the Mormon church.
A slap to Mittens.
 
2012-10-01 04:58:58 PM

Introitus: To all the uninfrommed people in this thread, the US does not give the BCG vaccine. So pick a different pathogen instead of TB please.


They do, but it's for bladder cancer, not TB.
 
2012-10-01 04:59:12 PM

fuhfuhfuh: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

So abortion is a transmittable disease, much like TB and smallpox. Good to know.


Requires a different set of shots, but Yeah!
 
2012-10-01 04:59:37 PM

mysticcat: FunkOut: Oh, you mean like a severe egg allergy that makes getting vaccines grown in eggs a bit of a problem?

I'm an allergist, so I see this not infrequently. Here's how I handle it: 1) Give the patient the vaccination.

That's it. Very simple.

Multiple studies show that even patients with documented true anaphylaxis to eggs can handle vaccinations. Despite this, many vaccine package inserts continue to say that it shouldn't be done. This is purely a CYA move due to all the litigious twatwaffles trolling for personal injury cases.


Commence mothers frothing at the mouth that know better calling you irresponsible and threatening to post your contact information on their respective blogs with an extra large title that says "CHILD MURDERER WORKS HERE!"
 
2012-10-01 04:59:39 PM

oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?


Here let me Google that for you.
 
2012-10-01 04:59:40 PM

dumbobruni: going to India. with n


That might be quite an adventure.
 
2012-10-01 05:00:22 PM

Introitus: To all the uninfrommed people in this thread, the US does not give the BCG vaccine. So pick a different pathogen instead of TB please.


I actually find the reasoning behind that interesting, too. It's a mix of A) The fact that the TB vaccine isn't super-effective (40, 50% ish?)
B) TB isn't currently too present in this country. Which, you would think "Well, we should vaccinate anyways!", but
C) The TB vaccine makes you test positive on the cheapest, easiest TB Test... in other words, in areas where TB is low, the TB vaccine actually makes it *harder* to detect actual carriers of TB.

One of the few cases where I understand the fact that we're not vaccinating folks.
 
2012-10-01 05:00:38 PM
A doctor almost didn't get paid. Phew. That was close.
 
2012-10-01 05:01:01 PM

common sense is an oxymoron: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

When getting an abortion results in spontaneous miscarriages among innocent passersby, you'll have a valid comparison. Until then, you're ten pounds of derp in a five-pound bag.


Given your name, I just assume you are trolling since you obviously missed the point
 
2012-10-01 05:01:33 PM

DamnYankees: This is like the third headline in 2 days to say "Governor Moonbeam does X" when all he did was sign a bill into law. Do people not think the CA legislature exists?


No, we just put up a mental block just like most trauma victims do so we don't have to think about it.

WizardofToast: HeartBurnKid: "Swings back to sanity", subby? He's been the most stable, sane, and approachable governor California's had... well, since the last time he was governor.

Jerry Brown was a bit crappy on his first go. So far he's doing a bit better.


You do realize that he's called Governor Moonbeam because he had the clearly insane idea that California should invest in a communications satellite. Because yeah, satellite communications turned out to be a total boondoggle.

Also, California had a budget *surplus* of about $5 billion by the time Jerry left office the first time; far better than Saint Ronnie or any other Governor of California since left in the state treasury.
 
2012-10-01 05:01:35 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: But he once again shows his contempt for the people by banning a child from legally having more than 2 parents


tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


tenpoundsofcheese: ddam: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

Do you try to be this stupid every day or do it come naturally?

You either believe it is your body and can do what you want or not. Can't have it both ways.


ok I get it finally I see it now!

You're the door that always tells a lie. 

imageshack.us
 
2012-10-01 05:01:54 PM

oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?


Because there's such a thing as a viral threshold? Because even the vaccines can get overwhelmed?

that's like saying "If your dams and levees work so well, why should you have to worry about me blowing up the hoover dam upstream?"
 
2012-10-01 05:02:39 PM

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.

Second, many parents who refused vaccinations do so selectively, for the health of their children. Just like you wouldn't give your kid every medication under the son if you thought it was potentially harmful or unnecessary, so some parents treat vaccinations.

Third, the difference between the present and times past is that the number of required vaccinations are growing at a high rate. Why? Lack of critical thinking skills on the part of, well, everyone. Also, the power (and by power, I mean money) wielded by drug company lobbyists. You don't even need conspiracy theories to arrive at these conclusions.

/still thinks vaccines have their benefits and should be used appropriately


First, they're not more educated about medicine than physicians, otherwise they'd vaccinate their freaking children. A little knowledge is very dangerous.

Second, selective vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk to your child. It only increases the risk of infection for him or her and also his or her classmates.

Third, the number of vaccinations is growing because we have more vaccines that work. Your immune system sees log orders more pathogens every single day than are contained in the entire recommended vaccination series. Drug company lobbyists are scumbags, but they don't set vaccine schedules, physicians do.

/board certified in allergy and immunology
 
2012-10-01 05:02:54 PM

oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?


Oh, also, because some people have poor immune systems/the vaccine simply doesn't take. Or are too young to get vaccinated.

Plus, providing a MASSIVE BREEDING GROUND for disease makes it far, far easier for one to mutate and get *around* the vaccine.
 
2012-10-01 05:03:06 PM
He vetoed bills including one that would have let judges declare that some California children have more than two legal parents

Nightmare legislation right there. Thank you Jerry. Who the fark thought this would ever be a good idea????
 
2012-10-01 05:03:28 PM

404 page not found: tenpoundsofcheese: ddam: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

Do you try to be this stupid every day or do it come naturally?

You either believe it is your body and can do what you want or not. Can't have it both ways.

Public health.


So let's ban all smoking outdoors in public or in a persons home since innocent people may inhale
Let's also ban drinking since innocent people get injured in bar fights or by drunk drivers
 
2012-10-01 05:03:31 PM

oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?


Herd immunity.
 
2012-10-01 05:03:32 PM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: A family friend's wife is one the anti-vaccination bandwagon. She's big into all natural remedies and insists that their son will never be vaccinated. Rather than argue he took the kid to a clinic across town and got all his shots done. As far as I know she still has no idea and everyone is happy and not dead from measles.

/I'm amazed their kid kept his mouth shut. I'm sure there was lots of bribing.


I wonder at what age a child can request vaccination against their parent's wishes.

What happens when Little Suzie goes to visit her dad for the summer and comes back with a full set of vaccinations? Which parent gets to file child endangerment charges against the other?
 
2012-10-01 05:03:34 PM

AbbeySomeone: Because People in power are Stupid: DamnYankees: How does this violate federal law?

First amendment rights, yo. The freedom of artistic expression.

In many states you can claim religious, personal or other reasons for exemptions to vaccinations.


Vaccines cause artism.
 
2012-10-01 05:03:36 PM

jigger: A doctor almost didn't get paid. Phew. That was close.


¡Obama!
 
2012-10-01 05:04:43 PM

oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?


Seriously?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
 
2012-10-01 05:05:02 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


Yes. And that is, in fact, completely reasonable.

We don't need kids running around unvaccinated.

And we don't need kids having babies.
 
2012-10-01 05:05:03 PM
When I moved to California in 1984, this was the law of the land. It wasn't enforced well at all, btw, because schools have more incentive to place a kid than to make sure his medical history is in order. District Administrators/Superintendants are in league with the devil.
 
2012-10-01 05:05:31 PM

Fark Rye For Many Whores: ...Jerry Brown is governor again!? This really happen?!


You really missed all that in 2010? There were many good Fark threads on the campaign, and he had arguably the best "Oh Snap!" campaign ad of the last 20 years.
 
2012-10-01 05:05:35 PM
I love how morons like Bachmann have tried to make this into a "left vs. right issue". I can see some poor kid getting some 19th century disease because his dipshiat parents wanted to "stick it to the libs".

farking morons.
 
2012-10-01 05:05:39 PM

Shenanigans!: meat0918: Target won't give the shot to kids

If you want to get flu shots for your kids, their pediatrician or family doctor should be able to do it. All kids 6 months and older can get the shot. If they're 8 or under, they have to get two doses 28 days apart for it to be fully effective, but they can still get it. Depending on your insurance plan, you may not even have to pay for the shots under the new Obamacare changes. Good luck!


Oh, I know that. The school will give them too, I just need to sign the waiver. I did not have to pay out of pocket for my shots, the premiums I pay covered it.

We all had the flu back the October when swine flu first hit. 105 temp for my oldest that landed him in the ER because we couldn't get the fever down, that was before my wife got the flu, so she was able to drive him while I tried to tend my youngest as best I could while I had it. I peaked at 103.5. My wife at 103. My youngest at 104.

The flu is not some 2 day bout of vomiting. I wanted to die, just to make it stop. I thought I was dying. I got a course of antibiotics too because I started getting better, then wham! Coughing up a bit of bloody sputum, the doc was worried about pneumonia setting in. I missed 9 days of work, including two weekends, so two weeks of being sick.

And then the cough stuck around. I didn't stop coughing until mid January.

We didn't get the flu shots for a few years because we had the flu. This year, we decided to essentially get a booster and the Tdap, because we are around a lot of vulnerable groups nowadays (volunteer work in the local community, plus lots of newborns in our circle of friends).
 
2012-10-01 05:05:43 PM
Governor Moonbeam is far saner than any of the past few clowns we've elected as governor.
 
2012-10-01 05:05:49 PM

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.

Second, many parents who refused vaccinations do so selectively, for the health of their children. Just like you wouldn't give your kid every medication under the son if you thought it was potentially harmful or unnecessary, so some parents treat vaccinations.

Third, the difference between the present and times past is that the number of required vaccinations are growing at a high rate. Why? Lack of critical thinking skills on the part of, well, everyone. Also, the power (and by power, I mean money) wielded by drug company lobbyists. You don't even need conspiracy theories to arrive at these conclusions.

/still thinks vaccines have their benefits and should be used appropriately


I didn't realize the CDC was staffed with school officials and lawmakers. Hmm..... Also didn't realize how many parents are more educated than their kids pediatrician. Lots of Doctors out there!!

/please be a troll. Because if not ...
 
2012-10-01 05:06:21 PM

Shenanigans!: meat0918: Target won't give the shot to kids

If you want to get flu shots for your kids, their pediatrician or family doctor should be able to do it. All kids 6 months and older can get the shot. If they're 8 or under, they have to get two doses 28 days apart for it to be fully effective, but they can still get it. Depending on your insurance plan, you may not even have to pay for the shots under the new Obamacare changes. Good luck!


You assume that people have a pediatrician or family doctor. Many poorer families don't.
 
2012-10-01 05:06:51 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: 404 page not found: tenpoundsofcheese: ddam: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

Do you try to be this stupid every day or do it come naturally?

You either believe it is your body and can do what you want or not. Can't have it both ways.

Public health.

So let's ban all smoking outdoors in public or in a persons home since innocent people may inhale
Let's also ban drinking since innocent people get injured in bar fights or by drunk drivers


We're talking about infectious diseases here, buddy. I realize that it's way above your pay grade. Maybe go read a book. You know, them things with paper inside them.
 
2012-10-01 05:07:25 PM

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.

Second, many parents who refused vaccinations do so selectively, for the health of their children. Just like you wouldn't give your kid every medication under the son if you thought it was potentially harmful or unnecessary, so some parents treat vaccinations.

Third, the difference between the present and times past is that the number of required vaccinations are growing at a high rate. Why? Lack of critical thinking skills on the part of, well, everyone. Also, the power (and by power, I mean money) wielded by drug company lobbyists. You don't even need conspiracy theories to arrive at these conclusions.

/still thinks vaccines have their benefits and should be used appropriately


So you're saying that both sides are bad so rub one out to Jenny Mccarthy?
 
2012-10-01 05:08:15 PM

MrEricSir: Governor Moonbeam is far saner than any of the past few clowns we've elected as governor.


Bankruptcy and possible insolvency has a way of sobering the worst of idiots.
 
2012-10-01 05:09:42 PM

GAT_00: Unvaccinated children should be banned from public schools. No exceptions.


Why .........are you thinking that the vaccines don`t work......
 
2012-10-01 05:09:46 PM

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.

Second, many parents who refused vaccinations do so selectively, for the health of their children. Just like you wouldn't give your kid every medication under the son if you thought it was potentially harmful or unnecessary, so some parents treat vaccinations.

Third, the difference between the present and times past is that the number of required vaccinations are growing at a high rate. Why? Lack of critical thinking skills on the part of, well, everyone. Also, the power (and by power, I mean money) wielded by drug company lobbyists. You don't even need conspiracy theories to arrive at these conclusions.

/still thinks vaccines have their benefits and should be used appropriately


You might not need a conspiracy theory, but you do need a sharp blow to the head.
 
2012-10-01 05:11:37 PM
The appropriate action would have been to stick with the original policy that has been on the books forever: if your little crotch-fruit isn't vaccinated they aren't allowed ot attend public schools. Period.

Go be a dirty hippie (or crazy vaccine-denier) somewhere else.
 
2012-10-01 05:13:24 PM
Waiver? Should be arrested.

Not sure why creating a threat to the population isn't taken a little more seriously.
 
2012-10-01 05:13:34 PM

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.


Let's find out how many of those more educated parents have medical degrees. Otherwise, a stay at home mom with a Masters in English isn't in any better position to talk about vaccines.

Second, many parents who refused vaccinations do so selectively, for the health of their children. Just like you wouldn't give your kid every medication under the son if you thought it was potentially harmful or unnecessary, so some parents treat vaccinations.

Again, using what information? Would a doctor do this for his or her own children?

Third, the difference between the present and times past is that the number of required vaccinations are growing at a high rate. Why? Lack of critical thinking skills on the part of, well, everyone. Also, the power (and by power, I mean money) wielded by drug company lobbyists. You don't even need conspiracy theories to arrive at these conclusions.

Are then all doctors just shills of the drug company lobbyists? And what about in countries where healthcare is provided and vaccines are not money makers? It couldn't possibly be that recent medical knowledge regarding certain diseases has changed the positon on what vaccines children should receive.

/still thinks vaccines have their benefits and should be used appropriately

And parents are the best to determine what is appropriate in this case? Maybe not so much.
 
2012-10-01 05:14:07 PM
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4180 - Vaccine Ingredients
Do vaccines really contain the horrifying poisons claimed by antivaccine activists?

Link
Link Podcast Link


http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4055 - Mercury, Autism, and Chelation: A Recipe for Risk

An examination of the lethal pop-culture fad of chelating autistic children.


Link
Link Podcast Link

Pen and Tellers Bullshiat: Vaccine Episode. The follow link is the entire Episode.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0IvM8c-Pew

Link
 
2012-10-01 05:14:16 PM

cefm: The appropriate action would have been to stick with the original policy that has been on the books forever: if your little crotch-fruit isn't vaccinated they aren't allowed ot attend public schools. Period.

Go be a dirty hippie (or crazy vaccine-denier) somewhere else.


Let's put them in Red Shirts so that the rest of us can keep our kids away from Ensign Vector.
 
2012-10-01 05:15:27 PM

cefm: The appropriate action would have been to stick with the original policy that has been on the books forever: if your little crotch-fruit isn't vaccinated they aren't allowed ot attend public schools. Period.

Go be a dirty hippie (or crazy vaccine-denier) somewhere else.


Public education is not a right. It's a privilege.
 
2012-10-01 05:16:11 PM

jigger: A doctor almost didn't get paid. Phew. That was close.


Obviously you are not a doctor. Pediatricians lose money on almost all vaccines. They are required and the Pharm companies set prices. Then the insurance companies only compensate cost of shot. Not the cost of administration, supplies, and storage of shots.
Apparently, doctors are not in it for the money.
Plus, around here, anyone can go the shot bus and get their immunizations free.
 
2012-10-01 05:16:17 PM
As someone who is allergic to the Whooping Cough vaccination (one of those 1 / 500,000 reaction kind of things) and thus is forced to rely on 'herd immunity' to avoid getting sick, idiots voluntarily not vaccinating their kids terrifies me.

You aren't just putting your own kid at risk, you're putting at even more risk those of us who don't have a choice to be at risk or not.
 
2012-10-01 05:16:27 PM
FTFA: "... so that people whose religious beliefs prohibit immunizations won't have to get a medical professional's signature."

So, never mind. Nothing will change. Except the percentage of "religious" exemptions will skyrocket.
 
2012-10-01 05:17:18 PM

Felgraf: oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?

Because there's such a thing as a viral threshold? Because even the vaccines can get overwhelmed?

that's like saying "If your dams and levees work so well, why should you have to worry about me blowing up the hoover dam upstream?"


The what is he point of vaccines that can become overpowered by disease......
 
2012-10-01 05:18:15 PM

jigger: cefm: The appropriate action would have been to stick with the original policy that has been on the books forever: if your little crotch-fruit isn't vaccinated they aren't allowed ot attend public schools. Period.

Go be a dirty hippie (or crazy vaccine-denier) somewhere else.

Public education is not a right. It's a privilege.


Different argument, but education is one of the best ways to climb the ladder of success.

Hence why public education is under attack. can't have them poors actually pull themselves up that ladder and compete for my money, now can we?
 
2012-10-01 05:18:51 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: FTFA: "... so that people whose religious beliefs prohibit immunizations won't have to get a medical professional's signature."


When does Jesus talk about vaccinations?

Or Mohamed, or Thor, or Zeus.
 
2012-10-01 05:19:26 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: common sense is an oxymoron: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

When getting an abortion results in spontaneous miscarriages among innocent passersby, you'll have a valid comparison. Until then, you're ten pounds of derp in a five-pound bag.

Given your name, I just assume you are trolling since you obviously missed the point



What point is that? All I see is a prime candidate for Dumbass Analogy of the Day.
 
2012-10-01 05:19:50 PM

MrEricSir: Governor Moonbeam is far saner than any of the past few clowns we've elected as governor.


He does do some good stuff. Giving illegals drivers licenses isn't really helpful if you ask me, since driving without insurance is a crime in California. California has too many people as it is. Especially on the road ways.

Brown also veoted another immigration-related measure, the Trust Act. It would have prohibited local law enforcement officers from cooperating with federal authorities to detain suspected illegal immigrants, unless they are charged with a serious or violent felony.

Imagine you have Polly Klaas 2.0 and because law enforcement is prohibited from arresting and holding illegal immigrant Miguel Diaz for a running a red light, Polly Klaas 2.0 gets murdered after the cops let the guy go.
 
2012-10-01 05:21:54 PM

spentshells: Felgraf: oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?

Because there's such a thing as a viral threshold? Because even the vaccines can get overwhelmed?

that's like saying "If your dams and levees work so well, why should you have to worry about me blowing up the hoover dam upstream?"

The what is he point of vaccines that can become overpowered by disease......


It's about probability. Vaccines will never be 100% effective for everyone, and some are better than others, but they all will reduce your risk of infection or reduce the severity if it occurs.

It's like saying, "if you can die in a car wreck wearing a seat belt, then why bother."
 
2012-10-01 05:22:05 PM

MetryPapi: jigger: A doctor almost didn't get paid. Phew. That was close.

Obviously you are not a doctor. Pediatricians lose money on almost all vaccines. They are required and the Pharm companies set prices. Then the insurance companies only compensate cost of shot. Not the cost of administration, supplies, and storage of shots.
Apparently, doctors are not in it for the money.
Plus, around here, anyone can go the shot bus and get their immunizations free.


Ok, how much do you charge for the doctor's note?
 
2012-10-01 05:23:00 PM

Big Man On Campus: MrEricSir: Governor Moonbeam is far saner than any of the past few clowns we've elected as governor.

Bankruptcy and possible insolvency has a way of sobering the worst of idiots.


That didn't stop a certain brain-dead muscleman we once elected from attempting to push the state debt off into the future with a bizarre shell game involving government property.
 
2012-10-01 05:24:15 PM

Magnanimous_J: TheDumbBlonde: What about undocumented unvaccinated children?

They come from a country that still struggles with horrifying, yet preventable diseases. I doubt there are many anti-vaxxers in families that have actually watched a grandfather die of the plague.


Good point. I live in a Southern Californian city and see many adult immigrants around with withered arms and malformed legs because they did not get vaccinated in their home countries.
 
2012-10-01 05:24:27 PM

Raharu: Smelly Pirate Hooker: FTFA: "... so that people whose religious beliefs prohibit immunizations won't have to get a medical professional's signature."

When does Jesus talk about vaccinations?

Or Mohamed, or Thor, or Zeus.


Something something body is a temple, blah blah only use medicines blessed by clerics or mentioned in your holy text of choice, [name of your deity here] will protect you from all that is evil, if you die its His/Her/Its will, whatever....
 
2012-10-01 05:27:55 PM
Simple, require them to have vax in order to get into the school. And going to school is required my law, so there you have it.
 
2012-10-01 05:29:00 PM

meat0918: jigger: cefm: The appropriate action would have been to stick with the original policy that has been on the books forever: if your little crotch-fruit isn't vaccinated they aren't allowed ot attend public schools. Period.

Go be a dirty hippie (or crazy vaccine-denier) somewhere else.

Public education is not a right. It's a privilege.

Different argument, but education is one of the best ways to climb the ladder of success.

Hence why public education is under attack. can't have them poors actually pull themselves up that ladder and compete for my money, now can we?


Is public education really under attack? You sure there aren't people simply trying to improve it, but the entrenched interests want to fight any change tooth and nail?
 
2012-10-01 05:29:52 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: MrEricSir: Governor Moonbeam is far saner than any of the past few clowns we've elected as governor.

He does do some good stuff. Giving illegals drivers licenses isn't really helpful if you ask me, since driving without insurance is a crime in California. California has too many people as it is. Especially on the road ways.

Brown also veoted another immigration-related measure, the Trust Act. It would have prohibited local law enforcement officers from cooperating with federal authorities to detain suspected illegal immigrants, unless they are charged with a serious or violent felony.

Imagine you have Polly Klaas 2.0 and because law enforcement is prohibited from arresting and holding illegal immigrant Miguel Diaz for a running a red light, Polly Klaas 2.0 gets murdered after the cops let the guy go.


s4.hubimg.com

upload.wikimedia.org
Miguel Diaz Richard Allen Davis

img2-1.timeinc.net

img2.timeinc.net
Miguel Diaz John Allen Gardner
 
2012-10-01 05:33:49 PM

MrEricSir: Big Man On Campus: MrEricSir: Governor Moonbeam is far saner than any of the past few clowns we've elected as governor.

Bankruptcy and possible insolvency has a way of sobering the worst of idiots.

That didn't stop a certain brain-dead muscleman we once elected from attempting to push the state debt off into the future with a bizarre shell game involving government property.


Nor did it stop the brain-dead democrat before him from spending tax dollars to pay for consumer electricity bills when we were already running a deficit.
 
2012-10-01 05:35:15 PM
 
2012-10-01 05:35:59 PM
I would have slightly less of a problem with antivaxxers if only:

1. They kept their kids home when they get sick. And that means any illness that can be vaccinated against.
2. They kept themselves home when their kids get sick.
3. They agreed not to sue the living pants off everyone in the vicinity when their child dies of whooping cough or measles or some other easily preventable disease that kills kids.
4. They acknowledged that these diseases still exist and can kill people.

The way the antivax campaign carries on, you'd think that measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough, scarlet fever, and all those other fun old diseases were as extinct as smallpox. The tired line "Oh, we don't need to vaccinate our kids because herd immunity" is just wrong. Herd immunity exists BECAUSE of vaccination. Babies still die from whooping cough every year--and I don't buy the line that babies are getting it from adults whose vaccines wore off. The babies are getting it because the babies weren't vaccinated. Once you're an adult, whooping cough doesn't kill you. People stopped getting DPT vaccines and lo and behold, we had a whooping cough epidemic in ten states.

These diseases are real and really killing babies and kids. Wait till polio makes a big resurgence, or endemic measles. No MMR vaccines=measles outbreak. Antivaxxers will have a lot to answer for in a few years when we have paralyzed kids and sterile men wondering "Gee, how come everyone's getting so sick all of a sudden?"
 
2012-10-01 05:36:13 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: But he once again shows his contempt for the people by banning a child from legally having more than 2 parents


Lolwut? I don't think this comes from legislation:

madekreations.files.wordpress.com

/how babby is formed
//2 genomes, one oocyte
 
2012-10-01 05:36:49 PM

spentshells: Felgraf: oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?

Because there's such a thing as a viral threshold? Because even the vaccines can get overwhelmed?

that's like saying "If your dams and levees work so well, why should you have to worry about me blowing up the hoover dam upstream?"

The what is he point of vaccines that can become overpowered by disease......


Are you farking kidding? It's been explained 5 times already in this thread alone, let alone the hundreds of times it has been explained in every Fark vaccine thread since time immemorial. If you don't understand it by now, you must simply be too stupid to understand it at all.
 
2012-10-01 05:37:27 PM

404 page not found: [I clearly don't understand what the fark I am talking about].jpg


So lets see what happened in the Polly Klaas case shall we?

At the time, Davis was a wanted man: the California Highway Patrol had issued an all points bulletin for a violation of parole for a previous crime; any police officer who encountered him would arrest him on that charge. (The bulletin was broadcast on the CHP channel, which only CHP radios could receive. CHP practice changed after the case; such bulletins are now broadcast on all police channels.)

During the search, police officers encountered Davis in a nearby rural area, where his Ford Pinto was stuck in the mud. Unaware of the APB, the local police released him after calling his driver's license number in to their dispatcher (which only traced his driving record, but not his criminal record). It is believed that he promptly drove to an isolated spot, killed Polly, and buried her in a shallow grave.

On November 30, police arrested Davis for violation of parole during routine patrol and the arresting officer recognized him from police sketches. As his palm print had been found in Klaas's bedroom, he was charged with the crime. Four days later, he led police to Polly's body near Cloverdale. Davis said that he strangled her from behind with a piece of cloth. Although there was no method to scientifically validate this statement, as the body had decayed for two months, it was consistent with the evidence.


So you're ok with barring policing agencies from talking to each other so you can feel better about fulfilling some liberal agenda?  You're ok with making it harder to crack down on sex trafficking of children by illegal immigrants?
 
2012-10-01 05:38:22 PM

trotsky: I love how morons like Bachmann have tried to make this into a "left vs. right issue". I can see some poor kid getting some 19th century disease because his dipshiat parents wanted to "stick it to the libs".

farking morons.


insert darwinLaughingHisfarkingAssOff.jpg
 
2012-10-01 05:38:32 PM

LessO2: "Governor Moonbeam" seems to be doing a better job than "Governor Adulterer."

At least Brown wants to get the financial house in order.


He might have a little bit of trouble with that unless he pulls a Scott Walker.
 
2012-10-01 05:41:05 PM
 
2012-10-01 05:41:51 PM

jigger: meat0918: jigger: cefm: The appropriate action would have been to stick with the original policy that has been on the books forever: if your little crotch-fruit isn't vaccinated they aren't allowed ot attend public schools. Period.

Go be a dirty hippie (or crazy vaccine-denier) somewhere else.

Public education is not a right. It's a privilege.

Different argument, but education is one of the best ways to climb the ladder of success.

Hence why public education is under attack. can't have them poors actually pull themselves up that ladder and compete for my money, now can we?

Is public education really under attack? You sure there aren't people simply trying to improve it, but the entrenched interests want to fight any change tooth and nail?


Yes.

And I like some of the ideas put forth to improve education, like the way some public schools are teaming up with charter schools in some areas rather than fighting, and making sure the charters are doing more than just taking money. But voucher programs are a clear broadside against public school education and the separation of church and state; and aren't working since many parents treat vouchers as a panacea for their child's education, when it wasn't the school, but the parent's attitude towards education that is the problem.

I'd like to see more focus on skilled trades instead of "OMG!!! You NEED a 4 year degree in mechanical engineering because you love repairing cars!"

But like I said, different subject.
 
2012-10-01 05:42:03 PM

oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?


In reality, Vaccines work via 2 methods.

First, most common is direct immunity. You get the shot, you don't get the disease. This is the ideal case.

However, vaccination isn't 100%. It might not take, or it might 'fade' quickly. I have an aunt who's immune system can't remember chicken pox for more than a year(she's had it many times). Don't know why. Detecting such cases is prohibitively expensive because you have to do antibody titers to check whether they're present and in sufficient quantities.

Thus, the 2nd method comes into play - 'herd immunity'. It's a real world phenomenon where, once a sufficient percentage of the population is immune, the 'herd' itself is considered overall immune - since the vaccinated won't become carriers, the infection doesn't go systemic and hit most of those not immune. Basically, even if you introduce an infected transmitter the disease tends to burn out with that 'patient 0' and not spread. Basically - if a disease would hit 90% of those not immune in a population that is 10% immune, it might hit 10% of those not immune in a population that's 90% immune.

We've even reduced it to mathematical equations and simulations. You plug all the factors of a disease - transmission methods, ease of infection, durability of the disease (virus or bacterial), natural immunity, and such into the equations and it tells you the percentage you need. A not particularly transmissive disease like HIV might need a lower immune population than a highly contagious one like smallpox.

In general, vaccines are ~90% effective. There are people who can't get them due to medical reasons. There are immune compromised people for whom you don't even bother vaccinating. Balancing this are the naturally immune. You need ~90% immunity for the herd effect to really be effective. As such we're riding the 'danger line' as is, even a 10% non-vaccination rate would substantially weaken the herd immunity and put people like NkThrasher(allergic to whopping cough vaccine) at vastly increased risk.

spentshells: The what is he point of vaccines that can become overpowered by disease......


That's like saying that we shouldn't bother with swimming lessons because people can still drown even if they know how to swim, when the fact that knowing how to swim reduces an individual's chance of death by drowning 90%. Or that there's no sense in putting seatbelts or airbags in a car because somebody can still die in a 75mph collision.

Worse, really, because the more vaccinated people you have, the lower exposures you have, the less likelihood of your immune system being overwhelmed, vaccine or not.

Vaccines work. We managed to eliminate smallpox, and polio is hanging on by a thread. And the smallpox vaccine was relatively nasty and ineffective compared to more modern ones.
 
2012-10-01 05:42:14 PM
 
2012-10-01 05:44:02 PM

jshine: tenpoundsofcheese: But he once again shows his contempt for the people by banning a child from legally having more than 2 parents

Lolwut? I don't think this comes from legislation:


Imagine the mutant possibilities if we could have 2 ovums super-collide, or 2 spermatazoas join forces!! Hockey wouldn't be a fair sport if you could have 4 arms while playing against a bunch of 2-armers...
 
2012-10-01 05:46:17 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: ddam: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

Do you try to be this stupid every day or do it come naturally?

You either believe it is your body and can do what you want or not. Can't have it both ways.


No no, you're the conservative. You know, the people with the binary thinking on all subjects. You can't have it both ways.

We can pretty much do whatever the fark we want and stay consistent.
 
2012-10-01 05:46:25 PM
Jebus farking crist on a pogo stick. If I ever meet those idiots in that Pen & Teller video I'd have to
strangle at least 3 or 4 of those arsholes (Not Pen or Teller).

Antivaxers and those that support them are child murderers. Plain and simple.
 
2012-10-01 05:46:29 PM

jigger: MetryPapi: jigger: A doctor almost didn't get paid. Phew. That was close.

Obviously you are not a doctor. Pediatricians lose money on almost all vaccines. They are required and the Pharm companies set prices. Then the insurance companies only compensate cost of shot. Not the cost of administration, supplies, and storage of shots.
Apparently, doctors are not in it for the money.
Plus, around here, anyone can go the shot bus and get their immunizations free.

Ok, how much do you charge for the doctor's note?


The note itself? Nothing. Just a part of the child's yearly checkup. Under most insurance plans (and ACA) are free of co pay, and are free for those kids on medicaid. If you bring a form to fill out (camp physical, immunization form for school) outside of the visit, a small fee. My practice does this free of charge, but I don't see it unreasonable to ask a fee to cover labor required to access med file and verify info. Again, no charge at all for Medicaid pts.
 
2012-10-01 05:46:45 PM

mysticcat: FunkOut: Oh, you mean like a severe egg allergy that makes getting vaccines grown in eggs a bit of a problem?

I'm an allergist, so I see this not infrequently. Here's how I handle it: 1) Give the patient the vaccination.

That's it. Very simple.

Multiple studies show that even patients with documented true anaphylaxis to eggs can handle vaccinations. Despite this, many vaccine package inserts continue to say that it shouldn't be done. This is purely a CYA move due to all the litigious twatwaffles trolling for personal injury cases.


I didn't particularly like what it did to my left arm for that entire week. Sure, it didn't kill me but I kind of liked using my arm and moving it and stuff.
 
2012-10-01 05:47:05 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: 404 page not found: [I clearly don't understand what the fark I am talking about].jpg


So lets see what happened in the Polly Klaas case shall we?

At the time, Davis was a wanted man: the California Highway Patrol had issued an all points bulletin for a violation of parole for a previous crime; any police officer who encountered him would arrest him on that charge. (The bulletin was broadcast on the CHP channel, which only CHP radios could receive. CHP practice changed after the case; such bulletins are now broadcast on all police channels.)

During the search, police officers encountered Davis in a nearby rural area, where his Ford Pinto was stuck in the mud. Unaware of the APB, the local police released him after calling his driver's license number in to their dispatcher (which only traced his driving record, but not his criminal record). It is believed that he promptly drove to an isolated spot, killed Polly, and buried her in a shallow grave.

On November 30, police arrested Davis for violation of parole during routine patrol and the arresting officer recognized him from police sketches. As his palm print had been found in Klaas's bedroom, he was charged with the crime. Four days later, he led police to Polly's body near Cloverdale. Davis said that he strangled her from behind with a piece of cloth. Although there was no method to scientifically validate this statement, as the body had decayed for two months, it was consistent with the evidence.

So you're ok with barring policing agencies from talking to each other so you can feel better about fulfilling some liberal agenda?  You're ok with making it harder to crack down on sex trafficking of children by illegal immigrants?


I generally don't respond to people who try to put words in my mouth, but I suppose I will this time. You are trying to drum up fear of "ILLEGALS!" by citing a case that had nothing to do with immigrants, legal or otherwise. And that's it. If you've got some sort of agenda, since you brought it up, about sex trafficking of children by illegal immigrants, trying citing some of those cases, genius. 

tl;dr - strawman.
 
2012-10-01 05:47:30 PM

mysticcat:
/board certified in allergy and immunology


As an Infectious Diseases doc who has been on these threads for years, let me say that my credentials, literature reviews, links to the CDC website, PubMed links, and so on, have all gotten me nowhere.
 
2012-10-01 05:50:40 PM

jshine: Lolwut? I don't think this comes from legislation:


'Biological parents' are not necessarily the same as 'legal parents'.
 
2012-10-01 05:51:23 PM

jigger: cefm: The appropriate action would have been to stick with the original policy that has been on the books forever: if your little crotch-fruit isn't vaccinated they aren't allowed ot attend public schools. Period.

Go be a dirty hippie (or crazy vaccine-denier) somewhere else.

Public education is not a right. It's a privilege.


Maybe in your redneck state it's a privilege, but in mine it's considered a right and explicitly stated in the state Constitution: Illinois Constitution, Article X
 
2012-10-01 05:51:30 PM

meat0918: But like I said, different subject.


Well, ok. The subject was that kids don't really have a right to public education. It's like driving on public roads, which is generally called a privilege. There are restrictions on who can attend and the privilege can be revoked for various reasons. People usually get pissy when someone says they have a right to drive on the public roads they're forced to pay for. No! It's a privilege!
 
2012-10-01 05:52:11 PM

lake_huron: mysticcat:
/board certified in allergy and immunology

As an Infectious Diseases doc who has been on these threads for years, let me say that my credentials, literature reviews, links to the CDC website, PubMed links, and so on, have all gotten me nowhere.


Well, your posts are included in those that kept me continually going "Get boosters. Get boosters." until I finally did.

So there is that.

Sadly, it's going to take the child of a famous celebrity getting sick with one of these diseases and being hospitalized, or heaven forbid, die, for the pendulum to swing back towards "get vaccinated".
 
2012-10-01 05:52:54 PM

shroom: jigger: cefm: The appropriate action would have been to stick with the original policy that has been on the books forever: if your little crotch-fruit isn't vaccinated they aren't allowed ot attend public schools. Period.

Go be a dirty hippie (or crazy vaccine-denier) somewhere else.

Public education is not a right. It's a privilege.

Maybe in your redneck state it's a privilege, but in mine it's considered a right and explicitly stated in the state Constitution: Illinois Constitution, Article X


So Illinois has no restrictions on who can attend?
 
2012-10-01 05:53:02 PM

sabreWulf07: As long as you have a waiver, the measles virus will know it's not permitted to infect your child.


That has to be a legitimate waiver, right?
 
2012-10-01 05:54:11 PM
Wait, wait, wait... Who was it who called this in the CA anti-gay therapy bill from yesterday?
 
2012-10-01 05:55:10 PM

spentshells: Felgraf: oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?

Because there's such a thing as a viral threshold? Because even the vaccines can get overwhelmed?

that's like saying "If your dams and levees work so well, why should you have to worry about me blowing up the hoover dam upstream?"

The what is he point of vaccines that can become overpowered by disease......


That's like saying "Then what's the point of a Levee/Dam if it could be overcome by a 100 year flood?!?!"

Or "What's the point of giving our soldiers armor if a headshot will still kill them?!"

etc etc.

In other words: Stupid.
 
2012-10-01 05:56:27 PM
On a semi-related note: Crap. I cannot remember when I had my last TDaP. Is there any harm in getting one before the previous one has completely expired?

/Grad school physics is kinda frying portions of my long term memory.
 
2012-10-01 05:56:49 PM

jigger: meat0918: But like I said, different subject.

Well, ok. The subject was that kids don't really have a right to public education. It's like driving on public roads, which is generally called a privilege. There are restrictions on who can attend and the privilege can be revoked for various reasons. People usually get pissy when someone says they have a right to drive on the public roads they're forced to pay for. No! It's a privilege!


Ok, I'm confused.

I stand by the notion that education is a right and a responsibility. How parents choose that education for their children is their right. How it's paid for is up for debate at the moment.

Now, should unvaxed kids be allowed to attend public school? Put me squarely in the camp of no, let their parents pay for private or homeschooling if they choose to not vaccinate.

Although, I've seen the general trend in my area to exactly that, put your unvaccinated kids in with a lot of other unvaxed kids at a private school(one of them in my city has a 3/4 of the students missing one or more) or keep them safe from the big bad world by homeschooling them, where they also hang around other unprotected children in the homeschool meet ups.
 
2012-10-01 06:01:00 PM

jigger: shroom: jigger: cefm: The appropriate action would have been to stick with the original policy that has been on the books forever: if your little crotch-fruit isn't vaccinated they aren't allowed ot attend public schools. Period.

Go be a dirty hippie (or crazy vaccine-denier) somewhere else.

Public education is not a right. It's a privilege.

Maybe in your redneck state it's a privilege, but in mine it's considered a right and explicitly stated in the state Constitution: Illinois Constitution, Article X

So Illinois has no restrictions on who can attend?


Short answer: No.

Long answer: Basically you're required to be in school at least until you turn 16 (I think). That can be public, private, homeschool, whatever. If you get expelled from regular school, there are alternative schools.
 
2012-10-01 06:01:40 PM

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.


Except that they probably had preconceived notions about vaccinations and tended to visit sites that reaffirmed their notions. Nothing like being educated via Echo Chamber University.


BoxOfBees: Second, many parents who refused vaccinations do so selectively, for the health of their children. Just like you wouldn't give your kid every medication under the son if you thought it was potentially harmful or unnecessary, so some parents treat vaccinations.


Vaccinations can be dangerous. There is a probability of 1 in X that your child will have an adverse reaction. But we still vaccinate because in an unvaccinated population, there is a probability of 1 in Y that your child will be infected with a disease. As long as X is less frequent than Y, we vaccinate. It is a calculated gamble.

Anti-vax people either fail to understand the probabilities or are fully aware and just want to push the responsibility onto others, betting that enough people won't play the system like they are so that they're still protected by herd immunity. Problem is, herd immunity is breaking down. They're gambling and losing. It is highly irresponsible.


BoxOfBees: Third, the difference between the present and times past is that the number of required vaccinations are growing at a high rate. Why? Lack of critical thinking skills on the part of, well, everyone. Also, the power (and by power, I mean money) wielded by drug company lobbyists. You don't even need conspiracy theories to arrive at these conclusions.


Here are the required vaccinations for my state:
diphtheria
hep B
measles
meningococcal
mumps
pertussis
polio
rubella (German measles)
tetanus
varicella (chickenpox)


The majority of those diseases have a mortality rate of at least 10%. Others will shorten your lifespan or will severely degrade the quality of it. Every vaccine listed should be there. Only an idiot would voluntarily skip them.

Even if drug companies are making vast sums of money from the vaccines, sometimes you have to realize that there is a lesser of two evils here. If you have a problem with private companies controlling the manufacture of these vaccines, vote for a candidate who would push for government manufacturing facilities.

I mean, I could be all defiant and anti-corporatist and skip my mumps vaccine, or I can get orchitis and suffer as my balls feel like they're on fire as they atrophy.
 
2012-10-01 06:02:04 PM

meat0918: We all had the flu back the October when swine flu first hit. 105 temp for my oldest that landed him in the ER because we couldn't get the fever down, that was before my wife got the flu, so she was able to drive him while I tried to tend my youngest as best I could while I had it. I peaked at 103.5. My wife at 103. My youngest at 104.

The flu is not some 2 day bout of vomiting. I wanted to die, just to make it stop. I thought I was dying. I got a course of antibiotics too because I started getting better, then wham! Coughing up a bit of bloody sputum, the doc was worried about pneumonia setting in. I missed 9 days of work, including two weekends, so two weeks of being sick.

And then the cough stuck around. I didn't stop coughing until mid January.


This. The flu can be quite horrifying in its effects and duration. It's not just some common cold that gives you a week of runny nose and sore throat.

When I had a flu in February a few years ago, my body temperature wouldn't stay stable until sometime in July, when I could finally stop wearing a thick coat indoors. I've gotten vaccinated since then.
 
2012-10-01 06:05:00 PM

Magnanimous_J: TheDumbBlonde: What about undocumented unvaccinated children?

They come from a country that still struggles with horrifying, yet preventable diseases. I doubt there are many anti-vaxxers in families that have actually watched a grandfather die of the plague.


Wait. There are undocumented children that were born in the US?
 
2012-10-01 06:05:18 PM

shroom: jigger: shroom: jigger: cefm: The appropriate action would have been to stick with the original policy that has been on the books forever: if your little crotch-fruit isn't vaccinated they aren't allowed ot attend public schools. Period.

Go be a dirty hippie (or crazy vaccine-denier) somewhere else.

Public education is not a right. It's a privilege.

Maybe in your redneck state it's a privilege, but in mine it's considered a right and explicitly stated in the state Constitution: Illinois Constitution, Article X

So Illinois has no restrictions on who can attend?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Basically you're required to be in school at least until you turn 16 (I think). That can be public, private, homeschool, whatever. If you get expelled from regular school, there are alternative schools.


So you do not have a right to attend the public school? You can be restricted from attending.

That's the whole point. Seriously, that all it is. Maybe you think it's a simple, stupid point, but I just want people to stop saying that attending public school is a right.

Hey, maybe though you could have a separate public school for the unvaccinated kids. Separate, but equal.
 
2012-10-01 06:06:11 PM

meat0918: Sadly, it's going to take the child of a famous celebrity getting sick with one of these diseases and being hospitalized, or heaven forbid, die, for the pendulum to swing back towards "get vaccinated".


I've managed to make a splash with a few friends of ours who were waffling on being antivaxers by declaring that unless their crotchfruit gets vaccinated against whooping cough, I'm not going to spend time with their kid or them, because they are a declared and intentional risk to my health (as previously declared up thread, I'm allergic to that vaccine, so don't have a choice).

So far I'm 3/3 on that strategy playing a part on getting a kid to get vaccinated. Although I think I may be a bit more convincing because I can't be vaccinated for it and thus am definitively at risk as opposed to the discussions about possibilities of risk etc.
 
2012-10-01 06:14:31 PM

TheDumbBlonde: My middle-school aged children are vaccinated to the hilt. Those boys won't be speading HPV or any other damn thing.


It would be a good idea for boys as well as girls to be vaccinated against HPV, but very few parents are doing that.
 
2012-10-01 06:15:19 PM

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.


In what sense? If someone takes Jenny McCarthy seriously, they their "education" didn't take.
 
2012-10-01 06:20:08 PM

jigger: Is public education really under attack? You sure there aren't people simply trying to improve it, but the entrenched interests want to fight any change tooth and nail?


I take it you haven't encountered the wingnuts who want to get rid of public education entirely.
 
2012-10-01 06:20:24 PM
My dad barely made it out of the 1940's with all the shyte going around. On the plus side, he didn't get the swine flu when everybody else in the family got it, including my mom (who's somewhat younger).

Thank you mom & pops for getting me vaccinated so I never had to suffer mumps or measles. Also, Rob Schneider you are a dumbass.

In terms of autism, I'm pretty sure there is a huge genetic component. Once you know an autistic kid really well, you start picking up on similar but less severe traits in the parents. Uber-geeky people are getting together and breeding in increasing numbers, meeting each other through online dating and geeky colleges, and having more successful employment in geeky jobs.

Some other reasons for the increase in diagnosis of autism: kids once thought mentally retarded are better diagnosed these days. Plus, kids are a lot better protected in all kinds of ways. Little Bobby at age 2 has less of a chance to spastically run around and get killed by some random accident, like drowning in the local swimming hole. Little Bobby is also less likely to die of a bowel obstruction or whatever at a very young age. Kids now survive to the age where autism is very obvious.

On a darker note, I imagine that in the past, a lot of autistic kids were simply beaten to death. They're often incapable of behaving and physical violence wouldn't do anything to improve the situation. But authoritarian parents or other caregivers with primitive mindsets would think enough beating would cure them. Yeah if by "cured" you mean "dead".
 
2012-10-01 06:23:45 PM

Introitus: To all the uninfrommed people in this thread, the US does not give the BCG vaccine. So pick a different pathogen instead of TB please.


With multiple-drug resistant TB floating around, maybe it would be a good idea to start vaccinating against it. (For those who don't know any better: the resistance in question is to antibiotics. Evolving resistance to antibiotics does not change the effectiveness of vaccines, which work by teaching the body's immune system to recognize the pathogen.)
 
2012-10-01 06:26:42 PM

jigger: Is public education really under attack? You sure there aren't people simply trying to improve it, but the entrenched interests want to fight any change tooth and nail?


There is an element of resistance to change. Education is heavily entrenched in "the old ways" and is very wary of anybody who has any suggestions for improvement. Look no further than how far behind public schools are in technological adoption, for example.

That said, I'll start believing there are people trying to change things for the better when I start seeing suggestions that aren't ultimately just poorly-veiled attempts at dismantling the public education system and handing it over to private business interests for pure profit motives.

There are plenty of things wrong with public ed and plenty of valid options for trying to fix them. None of those options involve handing the system over to businesses that are only interested in turning a profit which is pretty much the only "solution" ever offered by the vultures pretending they're trying to improve things.
 
2012-10-01 06:26:44 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: But he once again shows his contempt for the people by banning a child from legally having more than 2 parents


This originally made no sense, even though you're farkied in orange...

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


....And then I read this.

/Bad troll, bro, bad troll.
 
2012-10-01 06:26:45 PM
I'm ok with everything he put through and vetoed. Just sayin...
 
2012-10-01 06:27:35 PM

PsiChick: /Bad troll, bro, bad troll.


No. He's no troll. He really is a complete idiot.
 
2012-10-01 06:28:58 PM

PsiChick: This originally made no sense, even though you're farkied in orange...


Why use orange? I love the color orange, it doesn't deserve this sort of abuse.
 
2012-10-01 06:29:13 PM
I used to work with an anti vaxxer for a while. she used to think that the mucury was going to give her children autism, yet would allways make them tuna fish sandwitches for their lunch *face palm*

Not to mention that alot of vaccines have switched away from using mucury as a preservitive, when i told her that she would just tell me that "oh the new aditive is just as dangerous, I red it somewere"

This pretty much happens everytime i try to have a normal in person converstaion with an antivaxxer though.
 
2012-10-01 06:29:35 PM

mysticcat: Drug company lobbyists are scumbags, but they don't set vaccine schedules, physicians do.


My understanding is that very few vaccines are profitable to manufacture, and pharmaceutical companies have to be pressured into providing them.
 
2012-10-01 06:32:57 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: I wonder at what age a child can request vaccination against their parent's wishes.


18. As a general rule children have no right to access healthcare of any sort without the explicit consent of their guardian. Likewise they cannot refuse procedures ordered by their guardian.

There some exceptions for things like emergency care (both in that emergency care can be undertaken without consent from anyone and that guardians cannot refuse certain types of care to their children) but as far as I'm aware there aren't any exceptions in the US for vaccinations.
 
2012-10-01 06:36:24 PM

CapeFearCadaver: PsiChick: This originally made no sense, even though you're farkied in orange...

Why use orange? I love the color orange, it doesn't deserve this sort of abuse.


Synthesia\psychological color associations. Orange is for the people I can't quite classify.

/Mostly because the entire concept of paid-to-post-shiat IRL confuses me.
//He's pretty straightforward otherwise.
 
2012-10-01 06:38:21 PM

NkThrasher: I've managed to make a splash with a few friends of ours who were waffling on being antivaxers by declaring that unless their crotchfruit gets vaccinated against whooping cough, I'm not going to spend time with their kid or them, because they are a declared and intentional risk to my health (as previously declared up thread, I'm allergic to that vaccine, so don't have a choice).

So far I'm 3/3 on that strategy playing a part on getting a kid to get vaccinated. Although I think I may be a bit more convincing because I can't be vaccinated for it and thus am definitively at risk as opposed to the discussions about possibilities of risk etc.


Even if you weren't known to be allergic, there's a chance that the vaccine would be just naturally ineffective. I would never allow anti-vax kids to be around my family, and would encourage others in the same social group to do the same. Them being outcast from civilized society would be a desirable side effect.
 
2012-10-01 06:38:46 PM

pciszek: mysticcat: Drug company lobbyists are scumbags, but they don't set vaccine schedules, physicians do.

My understanding is that very few vaccines are profitable to manufacture, and pharmaceutical companies have to be pressured into providing them.


Much more significant than any of that is that if everyone is vaccinated, eventually the disease goes extinct, and no one needs the vaccine anymore. Even if not everyone is vaccinated, you still get many fewer people in hospitals.

Vaccinations are the least profitable form of health care.
 
2012-10-01 06:39:38 PM

Egalitarian: On a darker note, I imagine that in the past, a lot of autistic kids were simply beaten to death.


Or, on a kinder note, sent off to the asylums. While conditions were often horrific in them, they were also often the best, kindest solutions available at the time.
 
2012-10-01 06:40:01 PM
I read that as unwaxed and thought giggity!
 
2012-10-01 06:44:48 PM

fuhfuhfuh: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

So abortion is a transmittable disease, much like TB and smallpox. Good to know.


It does require the transfer of genetic material from one person to another.
 
2012-10-01 06:44:55 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: common sense is an oxymoron: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

When getting an abortion results in spontaneous miscarriages among innocent passersby, you'll have a valid comparison. Until then, you're ten pounds of derp in a five-pound bag.

Given your name, I just assume you are trolling since you obviously missed the point


Are you seriously accusing someone else of trolling? Maybe you should change your name to tenpoundsofballs.
 
2012-10-01 06:45:31 PM

PsiChick: Synthesia\psychological color associations. Orange is for the people I can't quite classify.


I use orange for economic illiterates.
 
2012-10-01 06:46:07 PM

TheDumbBlonde: GAT_00: Unvaccinated children should be banned from public schools. No exceptions.

What about undocumented unvaccinated children?


Forced to walk the plank?
 
2012-10-01 06:47:46 PM

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.

Second, many parents who refused vaccinations do so selectively, for the health of their children. Just like you wouldn't give your kid every medication under the son if you thought it was potentially harmful or unnecessary, so some parents treat vaccinations.

Third, the difference between the present and times past is that the number of required vaccinations are growing at a high rate. Why? Lack of critical thinking skills on the part of, well, everyone. Also, the power (and by power, I mean money) wielded by drug company lobbyists. You don't even need conspiracy theories to arrive at these conclusions.

/still thinks vaccines have their benefits and should be used appropriately



first: education is far different from intelligence. just becasue you have a degree to hang on your wall dosent mean you know what to do with that knowlage, or even that that knowladge is in the appropriate field to be of any real use.


second: Thats fine by me. what isent, is introducing your non vacinated kids into an enviroment where a kid has an alergy to the vacination so can not be protected. now you are putting more then just your snowflake at risk. what if your kid gets sick and gets another kid sick who couldent even take the vacination if he wanted? you are putting morepeople at risk now. not to mention the fact that vaccination due to the nature of biology and other factors are not allways 100% effective to start with. so now you are making it more risky for kids whos vacinations havent fully taken.

third: how about its only logical to assume that as our understanding of biology and the process of infection increase so too will our ability to create ways to prevent thoughs potentially deadly infections from spreading?
 
2012-10-01 06:48:09 PM

BMFPitt: Even if you weren't known to be allergic, there's a chance that the vaccine would be just naturally ineffective. I would never allow anti-vax kids to be around my family, and would encourage others in the same social group to do the same. Them being outcast from civilized society would be a desirable side effect.


Oh definitely, I know. But I think it carries more social clout when I say "I CAN'T be vaccinated against this, therefore your child you are voluntarily not vaccinating is a threat to my health that I CAN'T mitigate through my own actions other than to avoid contact with them and you" than if I were to say "There's an up to 20% chance that my vaccination is ineffective and thus your kid might pose a threat to my health as a result."

It reframes it from me being worried about the percent risk that my immunity doesn't actually exist combined with the percent risk that their kid actually gets infected into the percent risk that their kid actually gets infected results in me being definitively screwed.
 
2012-10-01 06:51:42 PM
If you want to see what life is like without vaccines, check out Pakistan. They have no real vaccination program. Over a MILLION kids die each year from polio, whooping cough, and things you think are unheard of today. India was here a few years ago but they got a program working and they've had ZERO polio incidents when they started vaccinating. So if the only difference between the disease and not having it is vaccination, why wouldn't people vaccinate their kids. The millions who die in Pakistan clearly show the risk in modern day settings.

There are many scientific reasons (herd immunity, less than 100% safety per person, ineffective vaccines, etc) that make it unsafe for a small percentage to skip it, relying on the larger group to have it. Just get your kids the shots. It reduces their chance of death by thousands of times.
 
2012-10-01 06:53:39 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: ddam: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

Do you try to be this stupid every day or do it come naturally?

You either believe it is your body and can do what you want or not. Can't have it both ways.


Where do you learn this shiat? If you are among the brightest in your party, and your party is somewhere around 50% of the population, and you being just a hair over retarded, I expect SS disability draw increases in red states to be the straw that breaks the SS system.
 
2012-10-01 06:56:28 PM
Mercury news? Sounds about right.
 
2012-10-01 06:57:30 PM

oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?


Look up Herd Immunity. Vaccinations do not work on 100% of people but they work on most. However, if you have most ppl inoculated the disease will not be able to spread easily or rabidly and even the vaccination failures will still be protected.

However, as you reduce the total inoculations the ability for the disease to spread to new hosts quickly rises. So not only the inoculated but the failed to take inoculations will contract it and die or worse than die.
 
2012-10-01 07:02:12 PM

jigger: So you do not have a right to attend the public school? You can be restricted from attending.

That's the whole point. Seriously, that all it is. Maybe you think it's a simple, stupid point, but I just want people to stop saying that attending public school is a right.


Following that definition, there's no such concept of a "right" to begin with. Using that argument is just asking to get lost out in the existentialist weeds. Though, if you can come up with an example of something that it is impossible for you to be restricted from doing, be my guest.
 
2012-10-01 07:03:28 PM

DarkVader: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

Yes. And that is, in fact, completely reasonable.

We don't need kids running around unvaccinated.

And we don't need kids having babies.


We tried that. But fundies like TPC would do things like beat / murder / kick out of the house their underage girls if they got knocked up or found out they had an abortion. So we made laws allowing them to be anonymous. Hence no notes. TPC just wants to beat and murder children.
 
2012-10-01 07:07:46 PM
TFA: "There shouldn't be government coercion to force parents to jump another hoop to have to make decisions on ... what's the best interest of their child," Schneider told The Sacramento Bee earlier this month.

No, dingus, the only extra hoops are when your decision is to take the route that is not in the best interest of the child.
 
2012-10-01 07:28:11 PM
"M-O-O-N spells note."
 
2012-10-01 07:29:27 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


Can your child give mine an abortion if she gets one?
 
2012-10-01 07:38:07 PM

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.



[citation needed.jpg]


its california. i think its pretty likely that some reasonable portion of the non-vaccinating parents get their science from jenny mccarthy.
 
2012-10-01 07:39:16 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


Exactly. You only need the note if you don't get the abortion.
 
2012-10-01 07:48:42 PM

leevis: LessO2: "Governor Moonbeam" seems to be doing a better job than "Governor Adulterer."

At least Brown wants to get the financial house in order.

He might have a little bit of trouble with that unless he pulls a Scott Walker.


If by "pulls a Scott Walker" you mean busting the public employee unions, no, that won't help much at all, because to the extent that there's a problem with bloated public employee union benefits in California, it's with the police and corrections unions, which Walker exempted from his union-busting.
 
2012-10-01 07:49:06 PM

imagonyx123: Magnanimous_J: TheDumbBlonde: What about undocumented unvaccinated children?

They come from a country that still struggles with horrifying, yet preventable diseases. I doubt there are many anti-vaxxers in families that have actually watched a grandfather die of the plague.

Good point. I live in a Southern Californian city and see many adult immigrants around with withered arms and malformed legs because they did not get vaccinated in their home countries.


I used to live in Utah and got vaccines at the public health clinic (bare bones student health insurance didn't cover vaxes). Usually I was the only non-Spanish speaking person in the waiting room and I would shocked if everyone there was a legal immigrant. They aren't the ones avoiding vaccinations, they've seen what these diseases can do. It's the comfortably well-off white folk whose only knowledge of polio is that one of their great-grandmother's brothers died of it and who seem to think that childhood death from communicable disease went out with bustles and corsets and just doesn't happen any more. They're the ones getting the bogus "exemptions."
 
2012-10-01 07:53:51 PM

CapeFearCadaver: Wait, wait, wait... Who was it who called this in the CA anti-gay therapy bill from yesterday?


What? Who was who that called what in the bill? Do you mean in the thread about the bill?
img245.imageshack.us
 
2012-10-01 07:53:56 PM

Big Man On Campus: Nor did it stop the brain-dead democrat before him from spending tax dollars to pay for consumer electricity bills when we were already running a deficit.


Hint: the energy deregulation fiasco was created by a Republican.
 
2012-10-01 07:53:58 PM

lake_huron: mysticcat:
/board certified in allergy and immunology

As an Infectious Diseases doc who has been on these threads for years, let me say that my credentials, literature reviews, links to the CDC website, PubMed links, and so on, have all gotten me nowhere.


I visited anti-vaxer land one sleepless night and you too are just about the last people they would listen to. You're part of the conspiracy, along with researchers, the CDC and every single person who works in public health. It's all a scam to make money.

Also, you don't know what you're talking about because you don't have an autistic child and don't know what it's like.

They will give their autistic children pretty much any "alternative" treatment because the people selling those want to help people instead of just making money.

And why won't anyone do a study comparing autism rates in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children hmmmm? Because it would prove that vaccines do cause autism and then your whole money printing vaccine house of cards would come tumbling down. That one is my personal favorite.

Also, FYI since you're doctors you should be aware that any study suggesting a genetic link or something like a mother not getting adequate vitamin D while pregnant is WRONG because it's BLAMING THE MOTHER.

Just think of all the time I've saved you with all the journal articles you don't have to read now. You're welcome, glad you could benefit from my insomnia.
 
2012-10-01 07:57:46 PM

MrEricSir: Big Man On Campus: Nor did it stop the brain-dead democrat before him from spending tax dollars to pay for consumer electricity bills when we were already running a deficit.

Hint: the energy deregulation fiasco was created by a Republican.


"...fiasco was created by a Republican."

NSS?
 
2012-10-01 07:59:30 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


And they don't need to receive any information on the benefits and risks of it either. Information bad!
 
2012-10-01 08:05:37 PM

Benjimin_Dover: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

And they don't need to receive any information on the benefits and risks of it either. Information bad!


Seriously?

Get a room, cheap.
 
2012-10-01 08:06:57 PM
"There shouldn't be government coercion to force parents to jump another hoop to have to make decisions on ... what's the best interest of their child," Schneider told The Sacramento Bee earlier this month.

Oh Rob, i don't expect you to be a great brain trust, but this statement might only be reasonable many years ago, before the theories were dispelled like so much creationism.
 
2012-10-01 08:16:42 PM

TheDumbBlonde: My middle-school aged children are vaccinated to the hilt. Those boys won't be speading HPV or any other damn thing.


Your boys are welcome to date my daughters.

/ok my daughters may have something to say on the topic too
//might start asking for vaccination records when boys come over
 
2012-10-01 08:19:20 PM
Part of the whole "being informed of the risks associated with refusing vaccinations" should consist of being strapped to a chair and forced to watch footage of children dying from the diseases that these vaccinations are supposed to prevent.

/Next time I'm meeting an anti-vaxer I'm pulling up audio of a child who has whooping cough. It's the worst sound imaginable.
 
2012-10-01 08:21:40 PM

Gyrfalcon: DamnYankees: This is like the third headline in 2 days to say "Governor Moonbeam does X" when all he did was sign a bill into law. Do people not think the CA legislature exists?

Evidently. Apparently, all Californians do is sit around smoking dope and collecting welfare, when we're not surfing or something.


That's pretty much what my neighbors did when I lived in California. Well that and apparently have sex, judging by all the kids.
 
2012-10-01 08:22:22 PM
Bottomline: Vaccinate your kids, herd, or lose immunity...
 
2012-10-01 08:22:57 PM

Indubitably: Bottomline: Vaccinate your kids, herd, or lose immunity...


...and die.
 
2012-10-01 08:24:49 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: DamnYankees: How does this violate federal law?

First amendment rights, yo. The freedom of artistic expression.


What about the freedom of shut the hell up? Why do so many people waive this freedom?
 
2012-10-01 08:26:39 PM

ringersol: If you reject science and society to the point that you pass on *vaccinations*, how can you still be Ok with public school?


If you think about that a little, then a lot of other things make sense.

/but only think a little. too much makes ya want to climb a clock tower with ammo and Twinkies
 
2012-10-01 08:27:00 PM
Here is a note from me instead. It says I'm not giving you my money.
 
2012-10-01 08:27:25 PM

Mister Peejay: Because People in power are Stupid: DamnYankees: How does this violate federal law?

First amendment rights, yo. The freedom of artistic expression.

What about the freedom of shut the hell up? Why do so many people waive this freedom?


I don't know. Why don't you?
 
2012-10-01 08:33:25 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Mister Peejay: Because People in power are Stupid: DamnYankees: How does this violate federal law?

First amendment rights, yo. The freedom of artistic expression.

What about the freedom of shut the hell up? Why do so many people waive this freedom?

I don't know. Why don't you?


That wasn't directed at you. Just an observation.

/of course, the Political tab would be mostly vacant. OR IS IT ALREADY
 
2012-10-01 08:36:19 PM

Mister Peejay: Because People in power are Stupid: Mister Peejay: Because People in power are Stupid: DamnYankees: How does this violate federal law?

First amendment rights, yo. The freedom of artistic expression.

What about the freedom of shut the hell up? Why do so many people waive this freedom?

I don't know. Why don't you?

That wasn't directed at you. Just an observation.

/of course, the Political tab would be mostly vacant. OR IS IT ALREADY


*question mark*
 
2012-10-01 08:42:00 PM

Mister Peejay: Because People in power are Stupid: DamnYankees: How does this violate federal law?

First amendment rights, yo. The freedom of artistic expression.

What about the freedom of shut the hell up? Why do so many people waive this freedom?


Pay me to shut up, man, and I will.

Let's start a Kickstarter to shut me up online. Raise enough, and I will bow out forever online; out of the cloud; analog, wait, personal space only...

I'm game.

I need the money, the hugeosity of money, to pay off my student loan debt, which is huge. That's all I want. To be free to educate/learn/teach/write freely.

Unencumbered, as it were.

You can make this happen.

Make it so, please?

;)
 
2012-10-01 08:45:01 PM

badhatharry: Here is a note from me instead. It says I'm not giving you my money.


Oh, I thought this was about college students. I have a note from my mother. It says, "I don't need a doctor to tell me that my child is not livestock. Please grace him with your acceptance or just go fark yourself."
 
2012-10-01 08:47:15 PM

badhatharry: badhatharry: Here is a note from me instead. It says I'm not giving you my money.

Oh, I thought this was about college students. I have a note from my mother. It says, "I don't need a doctor to tell me that my child is not livestock. Please grace him with your acceptance or just go fark yourself."


Comma.
 
2012-10-01 08:50:37 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


Good.
 
2012-10-01 08:52:36 PM

Indubitably: badhatharry: badhatharry: Here is a note from me instead. It says I'm not giving you my money.

Oh, I thought this was about college students. I have a note from my mother. It says, "I don't need a doctor to tell me that my child is not livestock. Please grace him with your acceptance or just go fark yourself."

Comma.


See, the comma needs to separate your two independent ideas, man. It's has to do with the structure of the sentence. It's called a compound sentence.

"Please grace him with your acceptance..." is a complete idea/thought.

"...just go fark yourself" is a complete idea/thought.

Two ideas put together=compound sentence=needs a coordinating conjunction and a comma.

Hence: "Please grace him with your acceptance, or just go fark yourself."

You're welcome.
 
2012-10-01 08:54:13 PM

Indubitably: Indubitably: badhatharry: badhatharry: Here is a note from me instead. It says I'm not giving you my money.

Oh, I thought this was about college students. I have a note from my mother. It says, "I don't need a doctor to tell me that my child is not livestock. Please grace him with your acceptance or just go fark yourself."

Comma.

See, the comma needs to separate your two independent ideas, man. It's has to do with the structure of the sentence. It's called a compound sentence.

"Please grace him with your acceptance..." is a complete idea/thought.

"...just go fark yourself" is a complete idea/thought.

Two ideas put together=compound sentence=needs a coordinating conjunction and a comma.

Hence: "Please grace him with your acceptance, or just go fark yourself."

You're welcome.


Minus the "it's."

Heh.
 
2012-10-01 09:02:55 PM

Indubitably: Indubitably: Indubitably: badhatharry: badhatharry: Here is a note from me instead. It says I'm not giving you my money.

Oh, I thought this was about college students. I have a note from my mother. It says, "I don't need a doctor to tell me that my child is not livestock. Please grace him with your acceptance or just go fark yourself."

Comma.

See, the comma needs to separate your two independent ideas, man. It's has to do with the structure of the sentence. It's called a compound sentence.

"Please grace him with your acceptance..." is a complete idea/thought.

"...just go fark yourself" is a complete idea/thought.

Two ideas put together=compound sentence=needs a coordinating conjunction and a comma.

Hence: "Please grace him with your acceptance, or just go fark yourself."

You're welcome.

Minus the "it's."

Heh.


I think grammar and spelling are highly over-rated; pronunciation, however, is very important.
 
2012-10-01 09:03:39 PM
Apparently not being livestock makes you unable to transmit communicable diseases.
 
2012-10-01 09:03:52 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


there you go again
 
2012-10-01 09:03:58 PM
i877.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-01 09:07:47 PM

404 page not found: So what you're really saying is that this is a troll thread.


play.esea.net
 
2012-10-01 09:12:36 PM

shroom: jigger: shroom: jigger: cefm: The appropriate action would have been to stick with the original policy that has been on the books forever: if your little crotch-fruit isn't vaccinated they aren't allowed ot attend public schools. Period.

Go be a dirty hippie (or crazy vaccine-denier) somewhere else.

Public education is not a right. It's a privilege.

Maybe in your redneck state it's a privilege, but in mine it's considered a right and explicitly stated in the state Constitution: Illinois Constitution, Article X

So Illinois has no restrictions on who can attend?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Basically you're required to be in school at least until you turn 16 (I think). That can be public, private, homeschool, whatever. If you get expelled from regular school, there are alternative schools.


So we round up all the unvaccinated kids and put them in a special school in each city. This school will supply the absolute bare minimum. Just class rooms. No extras like sports or other fun stuff. Kids will ride a short bus to their new school. Once a month a medical team visits that school and offers to vaccinate the kids. The parents will not be involved. Any child that opts for the vaccines is allowed to transfer to the regular school program onces the round of shots have been completed.

The only kids who get an excemption are the ones with a RECOGNIZED medical condition that prevents vaccination.

As for the parents who refuse for religious or hippy reasons. Fark 'em.
 
2012-10-01 09:19:02 PM

badhatharry: Indubitably: Indubitably: Indubitably: badhatharry: badhatharry: Here is a note from me instead. It says I'm not giving you my money.

Oh, I thought this was about college students. I have a note from my mother. It says, "I don't need a doctor to tell me that my child is not livestock. Please grace him with your acceptance or just go fark yourself."

Comma.

See, the comma needs to separate your two independent ideas, man. It's has to do with the structure of the sentence. It's called a compound sentence.

"Please grace him with your acceptance..." is a complete idea/thought.

"...just go fark yourself" is a complete idea/thought.

Two ideas put together=compound sentence=needs a coordinating conjunction and a comma.

Hence: "Please grace him with your acceptance, or just go fark yourself."

You're welcome.

Minus the "it's."

Heh.

I think grammar and spelling are highly over-rated; pronunciation, however, is very important.


No dash.
 
2012-10-01 09:21:07 PM

OgreMagi: shroom: jigger: shroom: jigger: cefm: The appropriate action would have been to stick with the original policy that has been on the books forever: if your little crotch-fruit isn't vaccinated they aren't allowed ot attend public schools. Period.

Go be a dirty hippie (or crazy vaccine-denier) somewhere else.

Public education is not a right. It's a privilege.

Maybe in your redneck state it's a privilege, but in mine it's considered a right and explicitly stated in the state Constitution: Illinois Constitution, Article X

So Illinois has no restrictions on who can attend?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Basically you're required to be in school at least until you turn 16 (I think). That can be public, private, homeschool, whatever. If you get expelled from regular school, there are alternative schools.

So we round up all the unvaccinated kids and put them in a special school in each city. This school will supply the absolute bare minimum. Just class rooms. No extras like sports or other fun stuff. Kids will ride a short bus to their new school. Once a month a medical team visits that school and offers to vaccinate the kids. The parents will not be involved. Any child that opts for the vaccines is allowed to transfer to the regular school program onces the round of shots have been completed.

The only kids who get an excemption are the ones with a RECOGNIZED medical condition that prevents vaccination.

As for the parents who refuse for religious or hippy reasons. Fark 'em.


"Excemption?"

Is this the Three Stooges?

It's exemption.
 
2012-10-01 09:22:19 PM

ciberido: 404 page not found: So what you're really saying is that this is a troll thread.

[play.esea.net image 496x602]


I like the cut of yer ghostly jib, minus the on-deck sexuality, that is.
 
2012-10-01 09:24:06 PM

Indubitably: "Excemption?"

Is this the Three Stooges?


dlvpage.com
 
2012-10-01 09:28:46 PM

OgreMagi: The parents will not be involved.


You'd first have to grant children the right to make their own healthcare decisions.
 
2012-10-01 09:32:54 PM

TheDumbBlonde: GAT_00: Unvaccinated children should be banned from public schools. No exceptions.

What about undocumented unvaccinated children?


Pwn'd.
 
2012-10-01 09:35:53 PM

oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?


Babby can't haz vax. Babby doesn't deserve to die to suit neighbours' antiscientific superstitions.
 
2012-10-01 09:37:59 PM
vastrm.com
 
2012-10-01 09:52:55 PM

Thisbymaster: Simple, require them to have vax in order to get into the school. And going to school is required my law, so there you have it.


Each student? That could take up a lot of space...

www.compaq.com
 
2012-10-01 10:22:38 PM

ringersol: If you reject science and society to the point that you pass on *vaccinations*, how can you still be Ok with public school?


Because babysitters are, like, ten or twelve bucks an hour.
 
2012-10-01 10:49:54 PM
I'd like to comment, but I am biased.
I helped raise a girlfriends baby from birth.
Happy giggling baby girl. Things were great until we got her last round of shots.
Within a week she would not make eye contact anymore.
Within two weeks she would have nothing to do with us, her demeanor changed so much that we took her in, but the doctors assured us she was fine. It was just less than one month when the full seizures began taking place. At that point they diagnosed her with Guillain Barre. Long story short, She died at 6 months old.


It was 5-8 years later that I began seeing the same story spoken out of other peoples mouths.
They seemed to think the immunizations had something to do with it. After looking into it further, It blew my mind that hundreds of others have had the exact same experience with the same timing after immunizations. So, yeah, my mind is blown.
 
2012-10-01 11:11:46 PM

CapeFearCadaver: PsiChick: This originally made no sense, even though you're farkied in orange...

Why use orange? I love the color orange, it doesn't deserve this sort of abuse.

 

I use orange and yellow for Farkers who are a mix of good and bad, personally. So, for example, I might have someone Farkied as "harsh, mocking; but made good point, informative" and use orange to convey that mix.

The really weird ones are the ones that seem to contradict themselves, such as "homophobe; but lbgtq-friendly" or "misogynist but feminist." There's a surprising number of such paradoxes.
 
2012-10-01 11:21:31 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: But he once again shows his contempt for the people by banning a child from legally having more than 2 parents straight parents


FIFY
 
2012-10-01 11:28:20 PM
Another reason we should all homeschool.
 
2012-10-01 11:28:41 PM
As it stands this one of the silliest laws--it does nothing but infringe on one humans right as a defense against the infringement on human rights.

If your child, being vaccinated, attends a school full of children who have not been vaccinated, isn't yours safe from disease? So, how can you tell someone else that they have to vaccinate their child or have a doctor excuse the vaccination, when forcing you to not give one to your child or have a note from the school saying you have their permission to have your child vaccinated before attending would never fly because of it's clear infringement on your rights? You can't cure stupid with bureaucracy.
 
2012-10-01 11:38:32 PM
Knock knock at your front door
It's the suede/denim secret police
They have come for your unvaxed niece!
 
2012-10-02 12:33:18 AM

kutsuke: As it stands this one of the silliest laws--it does nothing but infringe on one humans right as a defense against the infringement on human rights.

If your child, being vaccinated, attends a school full of children who have not been vaccinated, isn't yours safe from disease? So, how can you tell someone else that they have to vaccinate their child or have a doctor excuse the vaccination, when forcing you to not give one to your child or have a note from the school saying you have their permission to have your child vaccinated before attending would never fly because of it's clear infringement on your rights? You can't cure stupid with bureaucracy.


If my child has an allergy to a vaccine, or is too young to be immunized, your unvaccinated-by-choice child is placing my child's health in jeopardy. Google "herd immunity" for more info.

You can't cure ANYTHING with stupidity.
 
2012-10-02 02:04:47 AM

Tentacle: Knock knock at your front door
It's the suede/denim secret police
They have come for your unvaxed niece!


+1
 
2012-10-02 02:44:53 AM

profplump: OgreMagi: The parents will not be involved.

You'd first have to grant children the right to make their own healthcare decisions.


Given the circumstances, they couldn't do worse than their parents.
 
2012-10-02 10:37:17 AM

stickandmove: Thisbymaster: Simple, require them to have vax in order to get into the school. And going to school is required my law, so there you have it.

Each student? That could take up a lot of space...

[www.compaq.com image 300x307]


Darn, someone beat me to it. You've got my respect in nerd cred. Well played, sir!
 
2012-10-02 11:50:36 AM

meat0918:

We all had the flu back the October when swine flu first hit. 105 temp for my oldest that landed him in the ER because we couldn't get the fever down, that was before my wife got the flu, so she was able to drive him while I tried to tend my youngest as best I could while I had it. I peaked at 103.5. My wife at 103. My youngest at 104.

The flu is not some 2 day bout of vomiting. I wanted to die, just to make it stop. I thought I was dying. I got a course of antibiotics too because I started getting better, then wham! Coughing up a bit of bloody sputum, the doc was worried about pneumonia setting in. I missed 9 days of work, including two weekends, so two weeks of being sick.

And then the cough stuck around. I didn't stop coughing until mid January.

We didn't get the flu shots for a few years because we had the flu. This year, we decided to essentially get a booster and the Tdap, because we are around a lot of vulnerable groups nowadays (volunteer work in the local community, plus lots of newborns in our circle of friends).


You are such a pussyfest.

I got the flu one time, two years ago, when H1N1 was all the rage. It wasn't great. I slept for 2 days, nipped bits of maple fudge from time to time for an energy source, had trouble finding enough energy to eat so I had to take a multivitamin but good luck with macronutrients from that. A little water in the mix.

105 is nice, I did that in high school, they sent me home. I told them I was fine. The flu got me to 104.

You're just like people who are afraid to eat medium-well steak because it's a little pink. Enjoy your stomach cancer from the charred meat (30% increase in cancer incidence YES!). I've missed on chicken twice (headaches from the salmonella) and I ate a rare hamburger that I had for a couple weeks and the meat was semi-rotten (the center was cool and creamy, THAT was painful.. 5 hours of bad stomach ache almost to tears, then I was fine).

Whole lotta hype about nothin'.
 
2012-10-02 01:12:48 PM

newton: I'd like to comment, but I am biased.
I helped raise a girlfriends baby from birth.
Happy giggling baby girl. Things were great until we got her last round of shots.
Within a week she would not make eye contact anymore.
Within two weeks she would have nothing to do with us, her demeanor changed so much that we took her in, but the doctors assured us she was fine. It was just less than one month when the full seizures began taking place. At that point they diagnosed her with Guillain Barre. Long story short, She died at 6 months old.


It was 5-8 years later that I began seeing the same story spoken out of other peoples mouths.
They seemed to think the immunizations had something to do with it. After looking into it further, It blew my mind that hundreds of others have had the exact same experience with the same timing after immunizations. So, yeah, my mind is blown.


I'm very sorry for your loss.

Your story is not, however, a good argument against requiring vaccination.

In rare cases, Guillain-Barré may develop soon after vaccination, but a causal link has not established. Even if vaccination were linked to an increased risk, however, the incidence of Guillain-Barré is far, far lower than the incidence of measles, polio, pertussis, etc would be if the population were not vaccinated. As well, while Guillain-Barré is serious and has a death rate of 2-3%, most people do recover fully, unlike, say, those with polio. In other words, when you balance the risks of vaccinating against those of not vaccinating, vaccinating is overwhelmingly safer.

That is not a consolation when one of the rare exceptions is someone you love, but public policy shouldn't be based on such extremely rare tragedies.
 
2012-10-02 01:25:10 PM
Came for the waxed students.

/Leaving disappointed.
 
2012-10-02 07:11:08 PM

Indubitably: Benjimin_Dover: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

And they don't need to receive any information on the benefits and risks of it either. Information bad!

Seriously?

Get a room, cheap.


Just because you want to force women to have to read information before they get an abortion doesn't mean everybody else does.
 
2012-10-02 07:38:50 PM

meat0918: Well, your posts are included in those that kept me continually going "Get boosters. Get boosters." until I finally did.

So there is that.


Thank you! That's wonderful to hear.

Phins: And why won't anyone do a study comparing autism rates in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children hmmmm?


Which of these studies do they mean?
 
2012-10-03 06:34:44 PM

Benjimin_Dover: Indubitably: Benjimin_Dover: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

And they don't need to receive any information on the benefits and risks of it either. Information bad!

Seriously?

Get a room, cheap.

Just because you want to force women to have to read information before they get an abortion doesn't mean everybody else does.


Thanks for clarifying for me.

P.S. I choose not to force women to do anything, you?
 
2012-10-04 06:53:46 PM

Indubitably: Benjimin_Dover: Indubitably: Benjimin_Dover: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

And they don't need to receive any information on the benefits and risks of it either. Information bad!

Seriously?

Get a room, cheap.

Just because you want to force women to have to read information before they get an abortion doesn't mean everybody else does.

Thanks for clarifying for me.

P.S. I choose not to force women to do anything, you?


No. Nor men.
 
2012-10-04 08:33:04 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


An abortion generally causes no harm to the patient and no harm to the population at large. Even when there is a complication, the risk of death is extremely low.

An unvaccinated child can cause harm to themselves and to the population at large. The risk of death with many of the diseases on school vaccination lists is moderate to high when infected.

If a 16 year-old child is responsible enough to drive a 6000lb SUV down the freeway at 75MPH by themselves, they're responsible enough to decide if they should get an abortion.
 
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