If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Mercury News)   Governor Moonbeam swings back to sanity, requires unvaxed students to have an actual doctor's note explaining why their parents hate them   (mercurynews.com) divider line 244
    More: Hero  
•       •       •

17581 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Oct 2012 at 4:33 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



244 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-10-01 06:15:19 PM  

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.


In what sense? If someone takes Jenny McCarthy seriously, they their "education" didn't take.
 
2012-10-01 06:20:08 PM  

jigger: Is public education really under attack? You sure there aren't people simply trying to improve it, but the entrenched interests want to fight any change tooth and nail?


I take it you haven't encountered the wingnuts who want to get rid of public education entirely.
 
2012-10-01 06:20:24 PM  
My dad barely made it out of the 1940's with all the shyte going around. On the plus side, he didn't get the swine flu when everybody else in the family got it, including my mom (who's somewhat younger).

Thank you mom & pops for getting me vaccinated so I never had to suffer mumps or measles. Also, Rob Schneider you are a dumbass.

In terms of autism, I'm pretty sure there is a huge genetic component. Once you know an autistic kid really well, you start picking up on similar but less severe traits in the parents. Uber-geeky people are getting together and breeding in increasing numbers, meeting each other through online dating and geeky colleges, and having more successful employment in geeky jobs.

Some other reasons for the increase in diagnosis of autism: kids once thought mentally retarded are better diagnosed these days. Plus, kids are a lot better protected in all kinds of ways. Little Bobby at age 2 has less of a chance to spastically run around and get killed by some random accident, like drowning in the local swimming hole. Little Bobby is also less likely to die of a bowel obstruction or whatever at a very young age. Kids now survive to the age where autism is very obvious.

On a darker note, I imagine that in the past, a lot of autistic kids were simply beaten to death. They're often incapable of behaving and physical violence wouldn't do anything to improve the situation. But authoritarian parents or other caregivers with primitive mindsets would think enough beating would cure them. Yeah if by "cured" you mean "dead".
 
2012-10-01 06:23:45 PM  

Introitus: To all the uninfrommed people in this thread, the US does not give the BCG vaccine. So pick a different pathogen instead of TB please.


With multiple-drug resistant TB floating around, maybe it would be a good idea to start vaccinating against it. (For those who don't know any better: the resistance in question is to antibiotics. Evolving resistance to antibiotics does not change the effectiveness of vaccines, which work by teaching the body's immune system to recognize the pathogen.)
 
2012-10-01 06:26:42 PM  

jigger: Is public education really under attack? You sure there aren't people simply trying to improve it, but the entrenched interests want to fight any change tooth and nail?


There is an element of resistance to change. Education is heavily entrenched in "the old ways" and is very wary of anybody who has any suggestions for improvement. Look no further than how far behind public schools are in technological adoption, for example.

That said, I'll start believing there are people trying to change things for the better when I start seeing suggestions that aren't ultimately just poorly-veiled attempts at dismantling the public education system and handing it over to private business interests for pure profit motives.

There are plenty of things wrong with public ed and plenty of valid options for trying to fix them. None of those options involve handing the system over to businesses that are only interested in turning a profit which is pretty much the only "solution" ever offered by the vultures pretending they're trying to improve things.
 
2012-10-01 06:26:44 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: But he once again shows his contempt for the people by banning a child from legally having more than 2 parents


This originally made no sense, even though you're farkied in orange...

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


....And then I read this.

/Bad troll, bro, bad troll.
 
2012-10-01 06:26:45 PM  
I'm ok with everything he put through and vetoed. Just sayin...
 
2012-10-01 06:27:35 PM  

PsiChick: /Bad troll, bro, bad troll.


No. He's no troll. He really is a complete idiot.
 
2012-10-01 06:28:58 PM  

PsiChick: This originally made no sense, even though you're farkied in orange...


Why use orange? I love the color orange, it doesn't deserve this sort of abuse.
 
2012-10-01 06:29:13 PM  
I used to work with an anti vaxxer for a while. she used to think that the mucury was going to give her children autism, yet would allways make them tuna fish sandwitches for their lunch *face palm*

Not to mention that alot of vaccines have switched away from using mucury as a preservitive, when i told her that she would just tell me that "oh the new aditive is just as dangerous, I red it somewere"

This pretty much happens everytime i try to have a normal in person converstaion with an antivaxxer though.
 
2012-10-01 06:29:35 PM  

mysticcat: Drug company lobbyists are scumbags, but they don't set vaccine schedules, physicians do.


My understanding is that very few vaccines are profitable to manufacture, and pharmaceutical companies have to be pressured into providing them.
 
2012-10-01 06:32:57 PM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: I wonder at what age a child can request vaccination against their parent's wishes.


18. As a general rule children have no right to access healthcare of any sort without the explicit consent of their guardian. Likewise they cannot refuse procedures ordered by their guardian.

There some exceptions for things like emergency care (both in that emergency care can be undertaken without consent from anyone and that guardians cannot refuse certain types of care to their children) but as far as I'm aware there aren't any exceptions in the US for vaccinations.
 
2012-10-01 06:36:24 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: PsiChick: This originally made no sense, even though you're farkied in orange...

Why use orange? I love the color orange, it doesn't deserve this sort of abuse.


Synthesia\psychological color associations. Orange is for the people I can't quite classify.

/Mostly because the entire concept of paid-to-post-shiat IRL confuses me.
//He's pretty straightforward otherwise.
 
2012-10-01 06:38:21 PM  

NkThrasher: I've managed to make a splash with a few friends of ours who were waffling on being antivaxers by declaring that unless their crotchfruit gets vaccinated against whooping cough, I'm not going to spend time with their kid or them, because they are a declared and intentional risk to my health (as previously declared up thread, I'm allergic to that vaccine, so don't have a choice).

So far I'm 3/3 on that strategy playing a part on getting a kid to get vaccinated. Although I think I may be a bit more convincing because I can't be vaccinated for it and thus am definitively at risk as opposed to the discussions about possibilities of risk etc.


Even if you weren't known to be allergic, there's a chance that the vaccine would be just naturally ineffective. I would never allow anti-vax kids to be around my family, and would encourage others in the same social group to do the same. Them being outcast from civilized society would be a desirable side effect.
 
2012-10-01 06:38:46 PM  

pciszek: mysticcat: Drug company lobbyists are scumbags, but they don't set vaccine schedules, physicians do.

My understanding is that very few vaccines are profitable to manufacture, and pharmaceutical companies have to be pressured into providing them.


Much more significant than any of that is that if everyone is vaccinated, eventually the disease goes extinct, and no one needs the vaccine anymore. Even if not everyone is vaccinated, you still get many fewer people in hospitals.

Vaccinations are the least profitable form of health care.
 
2012-10-01 06:39:38 PM  

Egalitarian: On a darker note, I imagine that in the past, a lot of autistic kids were simply beaten to death.


Or, on a kinder note, sent off to the asylums. While conditions were often horrific in them, they were also often the best, kindest solutions available at the time.
 
2012-10-01 06:40:01 PM  
I read that as unwaxed and thought giggity!
 
2012-10-01 06:44:48 PM  

fuhfuhfuh: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

So abortion is a transmittable disease, much like TB and smallpox. Good to know.


It does require the transfer of genetic material from one person to another.
 
2012-10-01 06:44:55 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: common sense is an oxymoron: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

When getting an abortion results in spontaneous miscarriages among innocent passersby, you'll have a valid comparison. Until then, you're ten pounds of derp in a five-pound bag.

Given your name, I just assume you are trolling since you obviously missed the point


Are you seriously accusing someone else of trolling? Maybe you should change your name to tenpoundsofballs.
 
2012-10-01 06:45:31 PM  

PsiChick: Synthesia\psychological color associations. Orange is for the people I can't quite classify.


I use orange for economic illiterates.
 
2012-10-01 06:46:07 PM  

TheDumbBlonde: GAT_00: Unvaccinated children should be banned from public schools. No exceptions.

What about undocumented unvaccinated children?


Forced to walk the plank?
 
2012-10-01 06:47:46 PM  

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.

Second, many parents who refused vaccinations do so selectively, for the health of their children. Just like you wouldn't give your kid every medication under the son if you thought it was potentially harmful or unnecessary, so some parents treat vaccinations.

Third, the difference between the present and times past is that the number of required vaccinations are growing at a high rate. Why? Lack of critical thinking skills on the part of, well, everyone. Also, the power (and by power, I mean money) wielded by drug company lobbyists. You don't even need conspiracy theories to arrive at these conclusions.

/still thinks vaccines have their benefits and should be used appropriately



first: education is far different from intelligence. just becasue you have a degree to hang on your wall dosent mean you know what to do with that knowlage, or even that that knowladge is in the appropriate field to be of any real use.


second: Thats fine by me. what isent, is introducing your non vacinated kids into an enviroment where a kid has an alergy to the vacination so can not be protected. now you are putting more then just your snowflake at risk. what if your kid gets sick and gets another kid sick who couldent even take the vacination if he wanted? you are putting morepeople at risk now. not to mention the fact that vaccination due to the nature of biology and other factors are not allways 100% effective to start with. so now you are making it more risky for kids whos vacinations havent fully taken.

third: how about its only logical to assume that as our understanding of biology and the process of infection increase so too will our ability to create ways to prevent thoughs potentially deadly infections from spreading?
 
2012-10-01 06:48:09 PM  

BMFPitt: Even if you weren't known to be allergic, there's a chance that the vaccine would be just naturally ineffective. I would never allow anti-vax kids to be around my family, and would encourage others in the same social group to do the same. Them being outcast from civilized society would be a desirable side effect.


Oh definitely, I know. But I think it carries more social clout when I say "I CAN'T be vaccinated against this, therefore your child you are voluntarily not vaccinating is a threat to my health that I CAN'T mitigate through my own actions other than to avoid contact with them and you" than if I were to say "There's an up to 20% chance that my vaccination is ineffective and thus your kid might pose a threat to my health as a result."

It reframes it from me being worried about the percent risk that my immunity doesn't actually exist combined with the percent risk that their kid actually gets infected into the percent risk that their kid actually gets infected results in me being definitively screwed.
 
2012-10-01 06:51:42 PM  
If you want to see what life is like without vaccines, check out Pakistan. They have no real vaccination program. Over a MILLION kids die each year from polio, whooping cough, and things you think are unheard of today. India was here a few years ago but they got a program working and they've had ZERO polio incidents when they started vaccinating. So if the only difference between the disease and not having it is vaccination, why wouldn't people vaccinate their kids. The millions who die in Pakistan clearly show the risk in modern day settings.

There are many scientific reasons (herd immunity, less than 100% safety per person, ineffective vaccines, etc) that make it unsafe for a small percentage to skip it, relying on the larger group to have it. Just get your kids the shots. It reduces their chance of death by thousands of times.
 
2012-10-01 06:53:39 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: ddam: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

Do you try to be this stupid every day or do it come naturally?

You either believe it is your body and can do what you want or not. Can't have it both ways.


Where do you learn this shiat? If you are among the brightest in your party, and your party is somewhere around 50% of the population, and you being just a hair over retarded, I expect SS disability draw increases in red states to be the straw that breaks the SS system.
 
2012-10-01 06:56:28 PM  
Mercury news? Sounds about right.
 
2012-10-01 06:57:30 PM  

oliass: If vaccinations work so well, why would you have to worry about non-vaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated kids?


Look up Herd Immunity. Vaccinations do not work on 100% of people but they work on most. However, if you have most ppl inoculated the disease will not be able to spread easily or rabidly and even the vaccination failures will still be protected.

However, as you reduce the total inoculations the ability for the disease to spread to new hosts quickly rises. So not only the inoculated but the failed to take inoculations will contract it and die or worse than die.
 
2012-10-01 07:02:12 PM  

jigger: So you do not have a right to attend the public school? You can be restricted from attending.

That's the whole point. Seriously, that all it is. Maybe you think it's a simple, stupid point, but I just want people to stop saying that attending public school is a right.


Following that definition, there's no such concept of a "right" to begin with. Using that argument is just asking to get lost out in the existentialist weeds. Though, if you can come up with an example of something that it is impossible for you to be restricted from doing, be my guest.
 
2012-10-01 07:03:28 PM  

DarkVader: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

Yes. And that is, in fact, completely reasonable.

We don't need kids running around unvaccinated.

And we don't need kids having babies.


We tried that. But fundies like TPC would do things like beat / murder / kick out of the house their underage girls if they got knocked up or found out they had an abortion. So we made laws allowing them to be anonymous. Hence no notes. TPC just wants to beat and murder children.
 
2012-10-01 07:07:46 PM  
TFA: "There shouldn't be government coercion to force parents to jump another hoop to have to make decisions on ... what's the best interest of their child," Schneider told The Sacramento Bee earlier this month.

No, dingus, the only extra hoops are when your decision is to take the route that is not in the best interest of the child.
 
2012-10-01 07:28:11 PM  
"M-O-O-N spells note."
 
2012-10-01 07:29:27 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


Can your child give mine an abortion if she gets one?
 
2012-10-01 07:38:07 PM  

BoxOfBees: First, many of the parents who refused vaccinations for their kids are already more educated than the school officials and lawmakers.



[citation needed.jpg]


its california. i think its pretty likely that some reasonable portion of the non-vaccinating parents get their science from jenny mccarthy.
 
2012-10-01 07:39:16 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


Exactly. You only need the note if you don't get the abortion.
 
2012-10-01 07:48:42 PM  

leevis: LessO2: "Governor Moonbeam" seems to be doing a better job than "Governor Adulterer."

At least Brown wants to get the financial house in order.

He might have a little bit of trouble with that unless he pulls a Scott Walker.


If by "pulls a Scott Walker" you mean busting the public employee unions, no, that won't help much at all, because to the extent that there's a problem with bloated public employee union benefits in California, it's with the police and corrections unions, which Walker exempted from his union-busting.
 
2012-10-01 07:49:06 PM  

imagonyx123: Magnanimous_J: TheDumbBlonde: What about undocumented unvaccinated children?

They come from a country that still struggles with horrifying, yet preventable diseases. I doubt there are many anti-vaxxers in families that have actually watched a grandfather die of the plague.

Good point. I live in a Southern Californian city and see many adult immigrants around with withered arms and malformed legs because they did not get vaccinated in their home countries.


I used to live in Utah and got vaccines at the public health clinic (bare bones student health insurance didn't cover vaxes). Usually I was the only non-Spanish speaking person in the waiting room and I would shocked if everyone there was a legal immigrant. They aren't the ones avoiding vaccinations, they've seen what these diseases can do. It's the comfortably well-off white folk whose only knowledge of polio is that one of their great-grandmother's brothers died of it and who seem to think that childhood death from communicable disease went out with bustles and corsets and just doesn't happen any more. They're the ones getting the bogus "exemptions."
 
2012-10-01 07:53:51 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: Wait, wait, wait... Who was it who called this in the CA anti-gay therapy bill from yesterday?


What? Who was who that called what in the bill? Do you mean in the thread about the bill?
img245.imageshack.us
 
2012-10-01 07:53:56 PM  

Big Man On Campus: Nor did it stop the brain-dead democrat before him from spending tax dollars to pay for consumer electricity bills when we were already running a deficit.


Hint: the energy deregulation fiasco was created by a Republican.
 
2012-10-01 07:53:58 PM  

lake_huron: mysticcat:
/board certified in allergy and immunology

As an Infectious Diseases doc who has been on these threads for years, let me say that my credentials, literature reviews, links to the CDC website, PubMed links, and so on, have all gotten me nowhere.


I visited anti-vaxer land one sleepless night and you too are just about the last people they would listen to. You're part of the conspiracy, along with researchers, the CDC and every single person who works in public health. It's all a scam to make money.

Also, you don't know what you're talking about because you don't have an autistic child and don't know what it's like.

They will give their autistic children pretty much any "alternative" treatment because the people selling those want to help people instead of just making money.

And why won't anyone do a study comparing autism rates in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children hmmmm? Because it would prove that vaccines do cause autism and then your whole money printing vaccine house of cards would come tumbling down. That one is my personal favorite.

Also, FYI since you're doctors you should be aware that any study suggesting a genetic link or something like a mother not getting adequate vitamin D while pregnant is WRONG because it's BLAMING THE MOTHER.

Just think of all the time I've saved you with all the journal articles you don't have to read now. You're welcome, glad you could benefit from my insomnia.
 
2012-10-01 07:57:46 PM  

MrEricSir: Big Man On Campus: Nor did it stop the brain-dead democrat before him from spending tax dollars to pay for consumer electricity bills when we were already running a deficit.

Hint: the energy deregulation fiasco was created by a Republican.


"...fiasco was created by a Republican."

NSS?
 
2012-10-01 07:59:30 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.


And they don't need to receive any information on the benefits and risks of it either. Information bad!
 
2012-10-01 08:05:37 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: tenpoundsofcheese: A child needs a note about why they didnt get a vaccination but the child doesnt need a note about getting an abortion.

And they don't need to receive any information on the benefits and risks of it either. Information bad!


Seriously?

Get a room, cheap.
 
2012-10-01 08:06:57 PM  
"There shouldn't be government coercion to force parents to jump another hoop to have to make decisions on ... what's the best interest of their child," Schneider told The Sacramento Bee earlier this month.

Oh Rob, i don't expect you to be a great brain trust, but this statement might only be reasonable many years ago, before the theories were dispelled like so much creationism.
 
2012-10-01 08:16:42 PM  

TheDumbBlonde: My middle-school aged children are vaccinated to the hilt. Those boys won't be speading HPV or any other damn thing.


Your boys are welcome to date my daughters.

/ok my daughters may have something to say on the topic too
//might start asking for vaccination records when boys come over
 
2012-10-01 08:19:20 PM  
Part of the whole "being informed of the risks associated with refusing vaccinations" should consist of being strapped to a chair and forced to watch footage of children dying from the diseases that these vaccinations are supposed to prevent.

/Next time I'm meeting an anti-vaxer I'm pulling up audio of a child who has whooping cough. It's the worst sound imaginable.
 
2012-10-01 08:21:40 PM  

Gyrfalcon: DamnYankees: This is like the third headline in 2 days to say "Governor Moonbeam does X" when all he did was sign a bill into law. Do people not think the CA legislature exists?

Evidently. Apparently, all Californians do is sit around smoking dope and collecting welfare, when we're not surfing or something.


That's pretty much what my neighbors did when I lived in California. Well that and apparently have sex, judging by all the kids.
 
2012-10-01 08:22:22 PM  
Bottomline: Vaccinate your kids, herd, or lose immunity...
 
2012-10-01 08:22:57 PM  

Indubitably: Bottomline: Vaccinate your kids, herd, or lose immunity...


...and die.
 
2012-10-01 08:24:49 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: DamnYankees: How does this violate federal law?

First amendment rights, yo. The freedom of artistic expression.


What about the freedom of shut the hell up? Why do so many people waive this freedom?
 
2012-10-01 08:26:39 PM  

ringersol: If you reject science and society to the point that you pass on *vaccinations*, how can you still be Ok with public school?


If you think about that a little, then a lot of other things make sense.

/but only think a little. too much makes ya want to climb a clock tower with ammo and Twinkies
 
Displayed 50 of 244 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report