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(Slate)   So is it 'fall' or is it 'autumn?' And why is it the only season with two names?   (slate.com) divider line 196
    More: Interesting, Samuel Johnson, English speakers  
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12280 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Oct 2012 at 4:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-01 05:19:15 PM

idsfa: My dog calls them (in decreasing order of preference):

White (Winter)
Pounce (Fall)
Wet (Spring)
Hot (Summer)


Your dog is Mitt Romney?
 
2012-10-01 05:20:22 PM

CruJones: Does anyone say "winter, spring, summer, or autumn"?

For me autumn isn't a season, it's a shorter time, and more of a feeling in the air.

Though here in north Mexico (aka San Antonio) we have two seasons, hellfire and fall. Don't get much winter or spring. Fall lasts from November until April. Everything else is summer.


I do. I didn't grow up in the US. I had no idea what "fall" was when I moved here. I still feel stupid if I say it. It's Autumn.
 
2012-10-01 05:22:41 PM
In the Maritime Provinces (New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island) and Newfoundland, you can hear innumerable local and regional accents because so many different groups of people settled small outports and villages in groups. There are English, Scottish, Irish and Welsh influences that would make you swear you were in the UK, while American influences from Maine to at least New Jersey or Pennsylvani have also played a role in the not too distant pass. My family tree is a typical mixture of the four British races, various American colonials, both pre- and post- Revolutionary (in many cases during the Revolution), as well as some influence from Old France and New France.

While Standard Canadian English can be heard from coast to coast and on American TV and radio, the more rural parts of the country have yet to meld together even as much as the UK or France have over the centuries.

It's weird, wild and wonderful, with British and American usages at war with each other for so long that both sides have forgotten which side is which.

Newfoundland alone has produced dictionaries and encyclopedias (including former Premier Joseph Smallwood's) to cover the rich and bizarre language and culture that was produced when so many different cultures clashed and intermingled.

Nothing odd about that, it happens all the time and everywhere, but for people used to living in their own bubble of dominant Englishes, these out-land Englishes can be fascinating and horrifying by turns. You never know when you are going to hear something that will carry you back to former centuries and almost foreign places.

I like to say that I have lived in at least four centuries (the 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, 1900s) but some of the language, grammar, customs and culture I have encountered since I was a child is much older than even that.

Nothing ever totally dies, not even the Middle Ages. It is all now and here.

I've actually participated in the hanging of May baskets, the chivarie of married couples, and other customs that died out elsewhere centuries ago. I've heard words that Rabelais and Montaigne would recognize but which are unknown even in rural France today.

It's a great place to be from, as they say in Canada.
 
2012-10-01 05:24:06 PM
Screw Fall and Autumn, To Americans this time of year is known as "Football Season"
 
2012-10-01 05:29:59 PM
Nice to see it's not just the Muslims that give more of a shiate than I do.
 
2012-10-01 05:30:21 PM

Last Man on Earth: browntimmy: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: GreenAdder: It's pop.

It's coke. Coke when it's cold, coke when it's kinda cold, coke when it's hot, or "Phi-slamma-jamma-time" as we call it in DC, and coke when it's kinda hot. COKE

That's just ass backwards. When ordering in a restaurant do you say "I'll have a Diet Pepsi Coke"?

First off, get out of here with your "diet" crap. Second, obviously not. You also don't say "I'll have a Pepsi soda" or "I'll have a Pepsi pop". You just order a Pepsi. The issue isn't what you call a specific item or brand, it's what you use as the generic catch-all. If you ask for a Kleenex, you're not going to flip your shiat if someone gives you another brand.


Ao what kind of Coke did you want? Pepsi coke?
 
2012-10-01 05:40:26 PM
TFA: However, in the end the Fowlers warned that it was too late. "We once had as good a right to it as the Americans," they wrote, "but we have chosen to let the right lapse, and to use the word now is no better than larceny."

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
--James D. Nicoll
 
2012-10-01 05:41:30 PM
Der Herbst - Eine wunderschöne und farbenprächtige Jahreszeit im Jahr. Die Abende werden länger, der Sommer ist vollbracht, die Natur bereitet sich unermütlich auf ihre Erholung vor. Ein Hauch von Melancholie liegt in der Luft.
 
f2f
2012-10-01 05:41:40 PM

Pocket Ninja: "irregardless,"


really? i had hopes in you, man. high hopes! :-( 

HIGH.

HOPES
 
2012-10-01 05:42:00 PM

FloydA: FTA: Fall is better on the merits than autumn, in every way: it is short

Autumn= 6 letters
Winter = 6 letters
Summer = 6 letters
Spring = 6 letters

I don't see how fall being "short" makes it preferable.

(I don't really care which word anyone prefers, but that struck me as a really silly argument. I can bear diversity in the names of the seasons, but I've been on Fark for too long to let a stupid argument pass without comment.)


It not even really short. Fall is short for "the fall of leaves." It just people got lazy and dropped most of the saying.

I personally think it is because no one can bloody spell Autumn properly.
 
2012-10-01 05:51:05 PM
I have popped my head in these threads (Romantic v Germanic) and always root for the Germanic side. There is a reason for this. It is not out of xenophobia. I am an American of French/Italian descent, so me ragging on French and Latin languages is something that I can do and not be faulted for. I support a Germanic English because of my cultural ancestry, not my blood ancestry. I am a proud American who takes pride in our history. Prior to the 1600s, our history was all about England, as we were British citizens. When the 1600s began we started diverging in our history, but it wasnt until 1776 when we brushed off our Englishness and became American.

I take pride in my cultural English ancestry. I am of not English or Germanic blood (that I know of, but I could have Frankish blood as I have blue eyes (or I have a Slav in my background(or even a Viking, but that is still of Germanic descent))), but that does not mean that I cannot be one of your own.
 
2012-10-01 05:53:22 PM

cretinbob: ArcadianRefugee: Are they pants or trousers? Is it bi-annual or semi-annual?

bi-annual is every two years. Semi-annual is every 6 months


uhm...

bi-ennial (or biennial) is every two years

bi-annual (biannual) is twice per year, but not neccessarily every six months (semi-annual)
 
2012-10-01 05:57:54 PM

DesertZephyr: cretinbob: ArcadianRefugee: Are they pants or trousers? Is it bi-annual or semi-annual?

bi-annual is every two years. Semi-annual is every 6 months

uhm...

bi-ennial (or biennial) is every two years

bi-annual (biannual) is twice per year, but not neccessarily every six months (semi-annual)


mm..OK. Biannual just sounds like a non-word.
 
2012-10-01 05:58:51 PM
Bananaual?
 
2012-10-01 05:59:18 PM

ArcadianRefugee: Are they pants or trousers? Is it bi-annual or semi-annual?



Pants are semi-annual, trousers are bi-annular.
 
2012-10-01 06:01:11 PM

cretinbob: Bananaual?


yanno if you type too fast it comes out bi-anal...

NTTIAWWT
 
2012-10-01 06:05:03 PM

trappedspirit: White lady problems


i.imgur.com 

All this nomenclature is giving me the vapors.
 
2012-10-01 06:05:58 PM

Fish in a Barrel: TFA: However, in the end the Fowlers warned that it was too late. "We once had as good a right to it as the Americans," they wrote, "but we have chosen to let the right lapse, and to use the word now is no better than larceny."

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
--James D. Nicoll


That's why we end up with more than one stolen word for the same thing, like buffet and smorgasbord.
 
2012-10-01 06:06:23 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

Fall, cos I dun cain't spell tha autum.. autim.. an coz 5% of tha world sez fall an thats like half o dem.
 
2012-10-01 06:08:02 PM
Yeah, and what sort of mist did Puff frolick in?
Exactly.
 
2012-10-01 06:08:33 PM
Get your dollar bills out, gentlemen. Now dancing on the main stage, the lovely Autumn.

/Got nothin'.
 
2012-10-01 06:09:07 PM
It's Weasel Stomping Time

Link
 
2012-10-01 06:16:33 PM

DesertZephyr: cretinbob: Bananaual?

yanno if you type too fast it comes out bi-anal...

NTTIAWWT


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-10-01 06:26:53 PM

cretinbob: ArcadianRefugee: Are they pants or trousers? Is it bi-annual or semi-annual?

bi-annual is every two years. Semi-annual is every 6 months


What about a fortyear?
 
2012-10-01 06:29:53 PM

Last Man on Earth: browntimmy: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: GreenAdder: It's pop.

It's coke. Coke when it's cold, coke when it's kinda cold, coke when it's hot, or "Phi-slamma-jamma-time" as we call it in DC, and coke when it's kinda hot. COKE

That's just ass backwards. When ordering in a restaurant do you say "I'll have a Diet Pepsi Coke"?

First off, get out of here with your "diet" crap. Second, obviously not. You also don't say "I'll have a Pepsi soda" or "I'll have a Pepsi pop". You just order a Pepsi. The issue isn't what you call a specific item or brand, it's what you use as the generic catch-all. If you ask for a Kleenex, you're not going to flip your shiat if someone gives you another brand.


And you can't get a Pepsi Free. If you want a Pepsi you're gonna have to pay for it, pal.
 
2012-10-01 06:33:16 PM
Pocket Ninja: You may appropriately use "autumn" in the following circumstances:

1) You speak with a British accent.
2) You are writing a poem in which the change of season is being compared to the stages of life.
3) The sentence you are using contains one or more of the following words: "whom," "irregardless," "apropos," "whilst," or "saturnine."
4) You are attending some sort of equestrian event that involves floppy hats.
5) You are holding some sort of cup with an extended pinkie finger.

In almost every other instance, "fall" is the correct term.


THIS
 
2012-10-01 06:35:59 PM
Winter has 2 names as well. 'Winter' and '5 MONTHS OF FU*KING BULLSHIAT'.
 
2012-10-01 06:45:42 PM

Pocket Ninja: You may appropriately use "autumn" in the following circumstances:

1) You speak with a British accent.
2) You are writing a poem in which the change of season is being compared to the stages of life.
3) The sentence you are using contains one or more of the following words: "whom," "irregardless," "apropos," "whilst," or "saturnine."
4) You are attending some sort of equestrian event that involves floppy hats.
5) You are holding some sort of cup with an extended pinkie finger.

In almost every other instance, "fall" is the correct term.


I use apropos regularly and my whole mother's side is British going back centuries. Can I use it?
 
2012-10-01 06:58:03 PM

Pocket Ninja: You may appropriately use "autumn" in the following circumstances:

1) You speak with a British accent.
2) You are writing a poem in which the change of season is being compared to the stages of life.
3) The sentence you are using contains one or more of the following words: "whom," "irregardless," "apropos," "whilst," or "saturnine."
4) You are attending some sort of equestrian event that involves floppy hats.
5) You are holding some sort of cup with an extended pinkie finger.

In almost every other instance, "fall" is the correct term.


I remember a time
My frail, virgin mind
Watched the crimson sunrise
Imagined what it might find
Life was filled with wonder
I felt the warm wind blow
I must explore the boundaries
Transcend the depth of winter's snow

Innocence caressing me
I never felt so young before
There was so much life in me
Still I longed to search for more

But those days are gone now
Changed like a leaf on a tree
Blown away forever
Into the cool autumn breeze
The snow has now fallen
And my son's not so bright
I struggle to hold on
With the last of my might

In my den of inequity
Viciousness and subtlety
Struggle to ease the pain
Struggle to find the same

Ignorance surrounding me
I've never been so filled with fear
All my life's been drained from me
The end is drawing near...
 
2012-10-01 07:07:10 PM

Klom Dark: Into the cool autumn breeze
The snow has now fallen


Was supposed to be:

Into the cool autumn breeze
The snow has now fallen 

// Uses both, so there...
 
2012-10-01 07:12:45 PM

cman: FloydA: FTA: Fall is better on the merits than autumn, in every way: it is short

Autumn= 6 letters
Winter = 6 letters
Summer = 6 letters
Spring = 6 letters

I don't see how fall being "short" makes it preferable.

(I don't really care which word anyone prefers, but that struck me as a really silly argument. I can bear diversity in the names of the seasons, but I've been on Fark for too long to let a stupid argument pass without comment.)

Its an argument about elitism.

Its a vulgar Germanic term versus an educated Romantic word. There will always be this argument.


You and I have talked about this issue before- the difference between "low-class" Anglo-Saxon and "high-class" Franco-Roman? And why some words are considered "acceptable," while perfectly effective cognates are considered "profanity."

Or am I mis-remembering and confusing you with some other TFer?

(IDK, I'm usually drunk when I visit Fark. I think it was you that I was discussing historical linguistics and class-linked vocabulary- maybe I'm completely wrong- memory is not my strong suit. Anyway, fascinating subject. Drew doesn't filter "Feces," "intercourse," "sodomite," or "vagina." but the Anglo-Saxon cognates all get modified.)
 
2012-10-01 07:16:21 PM

FloydA: cman: FloydA: FTA: Fall is better on the merits than autumn, in every way: it is short

Autumn= 6 letters
Winter = 6 letters
Summer = 6 letters
Spring = 6 letters

I don't see how fall being "short" makes it preferable.

(I don't really care which word anyone prefers, but that struck me as a really silly argument. I can bear diversity in the names of the seasons, but I've been on Fark for too long to let a stupid argument pass without comment.)

Its an argument about elitism.

Its a vulgar Germanic term versus an educated Romantic word. There will always be this argument.

You and I have talked about this issue before- the difference between "low-class" Anglo-Saxon and "high-class" Franco-Roman? And why some words are considered "acceptable," while perfectly effective cognates are considered "profanity."

Or am I mis-remembering and confusing you with some other TFer?

(IDK, I'm usually drunk when I visit Fark. I think it was you that I was discussing historical linguistics and class-linked vocabulary- maybe I'm completely wrong- memory is not my strong suit. Anyway, fascinating subject. Drew doesn't filter "Feces," "intercourse," "sodomite," or "vagina." but the Anglo-Saxon cognates all get modified.)


Every thread about discussion of English and its origins is something that I always pop in. We most likely have talked about it before, and that is kind of something that I do talk about. Your memory is most likely right, but I cannot recall the specifics of our discussions.
 
2012-10-01 07:21:43 PM
nursedude


In my part of Canada we have:
Winter and Roadwork...there also used to be a season called hockey but I think global warning killed it.


Saskatchewan?

/out west we have the wet season and the wetter season....
 
2012-10-01 07:23:51 PM

Girion47: gray or grey?


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-01 07:32:11 PM
It's Equinox.
 
2012-10-01 07:32:35 PM

nursedude: In my part of Canada we have:
Winter and Roadwork...there also used to be a season called hockey but I think global warning killed it.


I like this better - it gets right to the point.
 
2012-10-01 07:32:51 PM
"Have a nice trip, see you next autumn." Yeah, doesn't work.
 
2012-10-01 07:35:15 PM
Living in Buffalo, we had pre-Winter, Winter, post-Winter, Summerish.

Living in Florida, we have Wet Season, Dry Season.
 
2012-10-01 07:44:21 PM
It's simpler in some places, like Alaska, where "Winter" is pronounced as "today".
 
2012-10-01 07:46:50 PM
Our days of the week are also mixed but Anglo-Saxon put up a better fight: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday are all Anglo-Saxon-Germanic. Saturday alone is named after a classical god, Saturn. But in French, lundi, mardi, mercredi, jeudi, vendredi, and samdi and dimanche (dominicus, the Lord's Day) are all latinate. The origin tongues of France, like much of the population, were all but wiped out by the Romans.

The English names are actually the translation of the Latin Names only using Anglo-Saxon Gods.

Dominica obviously comes after the adoption of Christianity and the move of the sabbath from the seventh day to the First. Before that, it was "diem solis," Sun Day.

The seven days of the week are named after the seven "Planets" of antiquity. The Sun, the Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. So, Diem Solis, diem Lunae, diem Martis, diem Mercurii, diem Jovis, diem Veneris, diem Saturni Hence the French lundi, mardi, mercoledi, jeudi, samedi "Sabbath day" and Dimanche.

Now the equivalent anglo Saxon Pagan gods for the planets were: Tyr or Tiw, the God of War. Odin or Woden, whom the Romans accepted as Mercury. Thor, the King of Gods,like Romes Jupiter. Frigg (in Middle English, final 'g's become 'y's.) the goddess of Love, Venus. No Germanic equivalent of Saturn.
 
2012-10-01 07:52:38 PM

sunsawed: Our days of the week are also mixed but Anglo-Saxon put up a better fight: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday are all Anglo-Saxon-Germanic. Saturday alone is named after a classical god, Saturn. But in French, lundi, mardi, mercredi, jeudi, vendredi, and samdi and dimanche (dominicus, the Lord's Day) are all latinate. The origin tongues of France, like much of the population, were all but wiped out by the Romans.

The English names are actually the translation of the Latin Names only using Anglo-Saxon Gods.

Dominica obviously comes after the adoption of Christianity and the move of the sabbath from the seventh day to the First. Before that, it was "diem solis," Sun Day.

The seven days of the week are named after the seven "Planets" of antiquity. The Sun, the Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. So, Diem Solis, diem Lunae, diem Martis, diem Mercurii, diem Jovis, diem Veneris, diem Saturni Hence the French lundi, mardi, mercoledi, jeudi, samedi "Sabbath day" and Dimanche.

Now the equivalent anglo Saxon Pagan gods for the planets were: Tyr or Tiw, the God of War. Odin or Woden, whom the Romans accepted as Mercury. Thor, the King of Gods,like Romes Jupiter. Frigg (in Middle English, final 'g's become 'y's.) the goddess of Love, Venus. No Germanic equivalent of Saturn.


*Mjollnir'd*
 
2012-10-01 07:59:26 PM
In Australia most of the trees do not loose their leaves, therefore there is no 'fall'. We call it autumn.
 
2012-10-01 08:01:25 PM

Girion47: gray or grey?


My name is Gray... from what I understand, Gray with an "A" is the American spelling. I kind of wish it was spelled Grey, as that might lead to fewer people mistaking it for Gary. I'd probably get Greg, though, so it makes little difference.
 
2012-10-01 08:16:54 PM

Tired_of_the_BS: A few responses above that autumnal (x) > fall (x). Where I grew up, people just say winter (x), and summer (x), but for spring it's almost always vernal (x) and for fall autumnal (x).



img2.etsystatic.com

Approves.
 
2012-10-01 08:23:34 PM

FloydA: FTA: Fall is better on the merits than autumn, in every way: it is short

Autumn= 6 letters
Winter = 6 letters
Summer = 6 letters
Spring = 6 letters

I don't see how fall being "short" makes it preferable.


Those are a lot shorter than "snowplow" and "road construction".
 
2012-10-01 08:36:39 PM
And what's with Yule being Saturnalia or Christmas now? Uppity Romans.
 
2012-10-01 08:41:56 PM

choo: Autumnus!


eunt domus?
 
2012-10-01 08:48:53 PM
Vernal
 
2012-10-01 09:02:53 PM
Relevant to her interests:

misfit120.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-01 09:03:24 PM

StymieMotJuste: Vernal


"Know wut I mean, Vern?"

"Autumnal, man."
 
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